Stop saying the Vanu Are Underpowered!!!

[Slice]

I'm really sick of you guys saying the Vanu are underpowered, nerf everyone! :mad: The Vanu are in no way, shape, or form underpowered. I've gotten to where I have developed a hate for the lasher, just because of the number of times I've died to it! Obviously, those people saying the Vanu are underpowered are in the wrong empire because they don't know how to use their own weapons! The good Vanu players can pwn all with their weapons, you just have to know how to use them! So please, stop saying "Nerf it! We're underpowered!" because that's a big load of bs.



(In memory of the TR Dual-Cycler MAX, may its AI power RIP:( )

[Hamma]

The VS were underpowered for the majority of beta, however they can more than hold their own now. I personally feel that all the empires are fairly well balanced.

[Agent White]

I think we're underpowered. If the devs are reading this, I would like a minigun version of the lancer.


With 100 shot clip.


Just to be fair.


Guided too if possible.

[Knuckles]

Slice:

It's been proven, time after time, that the Vanu weaponry is sub-par, compared to the other factions. Please check out the official boards if You don't believe me. Thorough testing. Hard data.

I'm dropping my Heavy Assault cert myself today (the Lasher), because the damn thing is near impossible to use with any effectiveness. (Mainly due to its slow orb speed.) I'm going back to the common pool Sweeper, which is a very good gun. It makes a powerful combo together with my Lancer.

I've gotten to where I have developed a hate for the lasher, just because of the number of times I've died to it! I do believe You are referring to the Lancer here, which is a quite nice gun, but that's because it doubles as a sniper rifle. It's Anti vehicle properties are weaker than the Striker though (IMO), since You get such a low hit ratio, due to the lack of missile lock or guided missiles, on moving targets.

[kerosene31]

I'm Vanu and hopefully with the TR nerfs now in effect, things should be fairly well balanced.

[beavis88]

>> I'm dropping my Heavy Assault cert myself today (the Lasher),

Thank #@!*%$ god! I am so sick of being destroyed by those things inside with absolutely no recourse (other than looting an NC jackhammer). I think I'll go over to the OF and whine about it.

[Kikinchikin]

psh all the factions are equal or u just suck.

[Agent White]

Today was my first day with the lasher. It owns.

Too many people using the duck and shoot tactic with it.

Wrong. Bad idea.

Lasher ALWAYS fires straight ahead. Strafe with it.

You'd be surprised how useless the jackhammer is against a moving target, and how hard it is to dodge lasher fire when trying to shoot said moving target.

The Cycler and the jackhammer are severely limited when you are not crouched or at point blank range.

The Lasher isn't limited in that way at all. Lasher strafing a crouched Jackhammer fiend who is consistently missing you is so easy it's almost unfair.

I carry a Lancer for long range. Surge to close the distance if the mood strikes me, then switch to Lasher and start strafing.



Instead of being afraid of TR and NC Heavy Assault weapons, go try them out in the shooting range on other servers. Move while shooting etc. Learn their weaknesses and exploit them instead of using the same old tactic for every weapon in your arsenal.

[Jarlo]

People crouch while firing Jackhammer?

You sir just killed a noob.

And trust me, the lasher balls are BY FAR the easiest shot to dodge. (except the VS AV max balls)

Edit: Doesnt it seem stupid that people throw grenades faster than the lasher bullet?

[Airlift]

When I play Vanu on Konried, they aren't underpowered.

[Knuckles]

But that's because You are uber, Airlift! :rolleyes:

[Airlift]

No, it's because most of you are whiney little bitches who see the grass as being greener on the other side :p

[Sputty]

Originally posted by Jarlo
People crouch while firing Jackhammer?

You sir just killed a noob.

And trust me, the lasher balls are BY FAR the easiest shot to dodge. (except the VS AV max balls)

Edit: Doesnt it seem stupid that people throw grenades faster than the lasher bullet?
It's true, Jackhammer is the best gun in the game IMO. Powerful, decent range and can one hit kill and close range.

It puts the Mini-Chaingun and Lasher to shame.

[Hellsfire123]

The jackhammer does not one hit kill at close range. Infact...nothing on hit kills unless the target is an infiltrator.

I prefer the pulsar to any of the other rifle long range. Close range ill have either the lasher or the sweeper. At extreme range, the Lancer is the way to go.

Are vanu underpowered? Yes. Does it matter in the long run? No not really. What really hurts us is the fact that vanu forces are outnumbered on almost all the servers. If our numbers were more up to par, i dont think anyone would complain as much.

Playing as the underdog will ultimatly make you a better player, so stop whining about it and learn your strengths.

[mikkyT]

No, it's because most of you are whiney little bitches who see the grass as being greener on the other side :p

A MEN

[Jarlo]

I really thionk only the lasher needs help-- Speeding up the balls and/or increasing damage per hit would be enough.


Oh and have you tried playing a VS MAX? They suck nuts. Even the NC ones are SOOOOOOOOOOO much better.

I have a br 11 NC and br 14 VS.. Trust me the grass IS greener for the NC! (except I luv the magrider)

[Jarlo]

And I was driving a vanguard around last night and I ran over a few infantry and took NO DAMAGE. It is harder to hit them without the strafing of a magrider but the magrider ALWAYS takes about 10% damage ramming someone.. vanguard took liteerally 0 damage from smooshing infantry.

[Nitsch]

My main two gripes about Vanu are the beamer and the glowy knife. The two main weapons of a stealther and they both totally give away your position.

They should really just do away with the beamer secondary mode... what do they think you are going to do with ap rounds in a handgun?.... kill a max? The gun is "balanced" (ie doesn't hit as hard, less accurate and has a low ROF) because of the secondary mode which is totally worthless. Also everytime you fire you basicly set off a homing beacon to your location.

I know the glowy knife looks cool.... but looking cool isn't what a stealther wants... if it must glow, then it shouldn't make ANY noise or do substantially more damage than the other knives!

Other than those two things, i think the vanu are very well balanced.

[Zarparchior]

Originally posted by Agent White
Today was my first day with the lasher. It owns.
...

Ugh... I read until right here... and then I almost threw up in disgust. I h8 to flame, but it seems most of the stuff you post is inaccurate, untrue, and downright insanity.

Lasher ALWAYS fires straight ahead. Strafe with it.

You'd be surprised how useless the jackhammer is against a moving target, and how hard it is to dodge lasher fire when trying to shoot said moving target.
You, sir, are a newb. With heavy assault, you DO NOT just duck and shoot. That should(?) be common knowledge by now... And that statement about the Jackhammer is a complete lie. Obviously a moving target will always be harder to shoot, but it's even more difficult to blast someone who is strafing your slow moving Lasher orbs. You allegedly can lead the shots, but you have to play psychic and guesstimate where teh enemy is going to strafe and assume that they are stupid and will not dodge incoming Lasher fire. Yes, you can dodge it quite easily. I do all the time. In a close range fight between Lasher and Jackhammer, the Jackhammer will ALWAYS win.

The Cycler and the jackhammer are severely limited when you are not crouched or at point blank range.

The Lasher isn't limited in that way at all. Lasher strafing a crouched Jackhammer fiend who is consistently missing you is so easy it's almost unfair.
You really are a newb, aren't you? Comparing the Jackhammer and the Cycler is like comparing the Thresher to the Vanguard. Sure, they're both vehicles but their purposes are much different. Cycler is the catch-all: short, medium, and long range weapon. The Jackhammer is specialized: melee to very short range (for full damage). Oh, and the Cycler is actually a very accurate weapon. It's RoF is very nice and it's recoil is very nice as well. It'd be a toss up between Cycler and Gauss for me. Both are so much better than the Pulsar. :p

Instead of being afraid of TR and NC Heavy Assault weapons, go try them out in the shooting range on other servers. Move while shooting etc. Learn their weaknesses and exploit them instead of using the same old tactic for every weapon in your arsenal.
That's EXACTLY what I did with the VS! After playing them and knowing exactly where their weapons failed to be useful, I could take down VS much easier. Especially newbs who were using the Lasher or Pulsar. Jeez, what were they thinking? Did they want to lose or something?
:domotwak:

Agent White... I don't believe in the saying that you equal your postcount, but it is obvious that you need to play the game more before you make wildly inaccurate statements.

[JakeLogan]

BURN!!!!!!!!!

Oh and Jarlo bullshit even the prowler which has the most armor of all the tanks takes some damage when it runs someone over.:eek: :rock: :sniper: :spam:

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Zarparchior
Ugh... I read until right here... and then I almost threw up in disgust. I h8 to flame, but it seems most of the stuff you post is inaccurate, untrue, and downright insanity.


You are in the minority then.


You, sir, are a newb. With heavy assault, you DO NOT just duck and shoot.


Yet so many people that face me... do. I guess because it helps the accuracy of the weapon they're firing. When they don't, they don't hit me. When they do, I hit them more often. You don't have to agree with my experience, but I have no reason to lie.


That should(?) be common knowledge by now... And that statement about the Jackhammer is a complete lie. Obviously a moving target will always be harder to shoot, but it's even more difficult to blast someone who is strafing your slow moving Lasher orbs.


What you see as common knowledge isn't so common on Markov.

My whole point being that while many weapons in the game become more accurate while crouched, the lancer's effectiveness remains fairly uniform. Don't question me, question the firing range.


You allegedly can lead the shots, but you have to play psychic and guesstimate where teh enemy is going to strafe and assume that they are stupid and will not dodge incoming Lasher fire.


?? I got about 2.5:1 kills using strictly lasher close range fighting TR tonight. I guess everyone I killed was "stupid".


All I did was instead of firing at where "opponent A" is standing at the time, I'd fire on either side of him and move backwards. TR and NC like to close distance because their weapons are usually more effective the closer they get.. The lasher doesn't share that property, so I usually back up while shooting on either side of the target. You may have superhuman twitch reflexes and be able to dance an encompassing barrage of lasher fire, but not everyone can, or does.


Yes, you can dodge it quite easily. I do all the time. In a close range fight between Lasher and Jackhammer, the Jackhammer will ALWAYS win.


Then get to Markov, TR needs you.


You really are a newb, aren't you?


Yep, BR15 newb. My screencap is in the pic thread.


Comparing the Jackhammer and the Cycler is like comparing the Thresher to the Vanguard.


Jackhammer and Cycler are better weapons the closer they are to the target, as opposed to say the Lancer, which is better the farther away the target is. Even a "newb" like me knows that. Therefore since they have a common strength (and weakness), I believe they aren't exactly "apples to oranges".


Sure, they're both vehicles but their purposes are much different. Cycler is the catch-all: short, medium, and long range weapon.


So you're telling me that the Cycler is equally effective holding the trigger down point blank as it is holding the trigger down at 4x zoom base-to-tower distance? Are you sure you're playing "Planetside"? Wherever the Cycler snipers are, they sure aren't racking up any kills on me.



The Jackhammer is specialized: melee to very short range (for full damage).


On Markov, the Cycler only does full damage (maximum damage at maximum firing rate) at very close range as well. Apparently your server is different. Do they have a "cone of fire" where you play?


Oh, and the Cycler is actually a very accurate weapon. It's RoF is very nice and it's recoil is very nice as well. It'd be a toss up between Cycler and Gauss for me. Both are so much better than the Pulsar. :p


Yes, I'm sure it puts the lancer to shame. I've already explained my position on the Pulsar, but since I have both Lasher and Lancer certs, I have no reason to use it. I did use it once tonight to make sure it was still a viable combo with the lasher in combat, and it certainly was.


That's EXACTLY what I did with the VS! After playing them and knowing exactly where their weapons failed to be useful, I could take down VS much easier. Especially newbs who were using the Lasher or Pulsar. Jeez, what were they thinking? Did they want to lose or something?


Yes, I can see you now, standing on that lone mountaintop, site implant zoomed into 12x, picking off Vanu snipers with your cycler from halfway across the continent...

At the range which a Cycler becomes much more effective than the lasher, I switch to Lancer, or surge closer. As with most weapons, there is a "sweet spot" in range for the Lasher.



Agent White... I don't believe in the saying that you equal your postcount, but it is obvious that you need to play the game more before you make wildly inaccurate statements.

I'm gonna run out of BRs before I even get a chance to learn the ropes.

What's yours again?

In closing, I'd like to quote your valuable contribution to the "Stupid TR Complaints" thread:


STFU n00b!!!! TR r teh WIN WE WILL CRUSEH uUUUU~U~~~~~~ u winy bastd complinaed to much abuot TR winig to much ad thye NERFED TRT!!!! NOW THEY GIMP YOU SUXKC!!!!! cuz u winy bastd

kthxbye I IWN INWIN INWINI IWNIN IWNINWIN INWINWIN IWNINW INWIN WINW INWIN INWIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111



Sigh.

[Onizuka]

Originally posted by Hamma
I personally feel that all the empires are fairly well balanced.

......

[Hamma]

I have always felt that way. I do not bitch and complain that my empire is too weak because I got owned on one or two occasions :p

[Onizuka]

ummm Hamma, thats cause your Terran :D

[Navaron]

The NC need slightly (like 15-25%) stronger pheonixes and the VS need faster ball orb thingies. That's it. Everything is perfect otherwise.

[Tryndamere]

Agent White > u * 100

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by Hamma
The VS were underpowered for the majority of beta, however they can more than hold their own now. I personally feel that all the empires are fairly well balanced. :nod:

[Tricky]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
The NC need slightly (like 15-25%) stronger pheonixes and the VS need faster ball orb thingies. That's it. Everything is perfect otherwise.

Fine, make the phoenix stronger and why not faster, and easier to steer? I'll have no problems with it once you give strikers the ability to shoot around corners and buildings. Thru building lock-on. :D

[Seer]

Stop saying 'Stop saying the Vanu are underpowered'.

I swear, you guys are posting way, way more than the people actually posting about the vanu weaknesses. After all, if there were many threads about it in the first place, you could just respond to them instead of starting new ones.

[SpacemanSpiff]

"Yes, you can dodge it quite easily. I do all the time. In a close range fight between Lasher and Jackhammer, the Jackhammer will ALWAYS win." -Zarp
"Then get to Markov, TR needs you." -White

White, what are you talking about? The Jackhammer is an NC weapon, so you're reply to Zarp made no sense whatsoever.

"Yep, BR15 newb. My screencap is in the pic thread." -White

Being BR15 is hardly an effective statement in declaring yourself a non-newb. I'm not saying you are, but most people know that a high BR rank means diddly squat about a person's in-game effectiveness. I'd rather gun with a good BR3 player than a BR20 with questionable ability. Really, everyone needs to stop declaring themselves BR15+ and, therefore, better than everyone that is not.

"Sure, they're both vehicles but their purposes are much different. Cycler is the catch-all: short, medium, and long range weapon." -Zarp
"So you're telling me that the Cycler is equally effective holding the trigger down point blank as it is holding the trigger down at 4x zoom base-to-tower distance? Are you sure you're playing "Planetside"? Wherever the Cycler snipers are, they sure aren't racking up any kills on me." -White

First of all, 4x zoom is not "base-to-tower distance." Secondly, the cycler is effective at short, medium, and long range. It's effectiveness at short range can be utilized with the "holding [of] the trigger" as you put it. However, everyone that is not a "newb" understands that medium to long range within Planetside can only be capitilized by short bursts - i.e. the tapping of the trigger. It's called recoil and the increase of the CoF. The Cycler's effectiveness at medium range is obvious, and I've killed bolt-driving players at long range with the Cycler as well. The Gauss, too, as nearly the same effectiveness. Some argue whether or not which of the two weapons (Gauss and Cycler) are more accurate between the 3 mentioned distances, but that's not the issue here. You seem to have missed what Zarp was saying completely.

"I'm gonna run out of BRs before I even get a chance to learn the ropes. What's yours again?" -White

Again, BR has nothing to do with skill. *sigh* Agent White, I hope none of what I said came out too particularly harsh. I just had to post because it seems you and Zarp are talking about very different things and some confusion is pouring through this particular thread because of it.

[Zarparchior]

First of all, let me say that you're going to waste the next few hours of my time because I'm work. Every few words I type are interrupted by a call from a customer, so please bear with me if this is a bit late in reply.

Originally posted by Agent White
You are in the minority then.
Umm... No. What you say IS untrue, false, not in the least bit correct. That is not opinion, or something I can be the minority in. No matter how you try to hide in the shadows of deceit the light of truth will shine brightly.


Yet so many people that face me... do. I guess because it helps the accuracy of the weapon they're firing. When they don't, they don't hit me. When they do, I hit them more often. You don't have to agree with my experience, but I have no reason to lie.
Okay. I'll say we agree on this. Of course, if you say the same for the bolt driver and ARs, then newbdom ho. Maybe I expect too much of people, but you have to weigh the pros and cons of ducking. Ducking wil get you improved accuracy, but make you an easier target (better for ranged) while strafing will lower your accuracy but should make you a more difficult target (better close up). I have never met a Jackhammerer that ducked. I have never met a Chaingunner that ducked (doesn't improve recoil that much anyway... :ugh: ). If you meet plenty of n00bs on Markov, I cannot and will not deny that.



What you see as common knowledge isn't so common on Markov.

My whole point being that while many weapons in the game become more accurate while crouched, the lancer's effectiveness remains fairly uniform. Don't question me, question the firing range.
Jeez... your reply almost made me think you were not a newb. I believe you're still talking about the Lasher, but you called it the Lancer. Many would say that's a simple mistake. It is, but it's one that the newer people generally have trouble with. People who play any kind of time on the VS never confuse that.

Assuming you meant Lasher, you're right. It's accuracy is technically very very good, along with it's maximum range (check out weapon details - it says maximum distance is very long). HOWEVER, the slow projectile speed coupled with the sub par lashing ability make this weapon a very poor choice indeed. If there was some way we could set up a 1 on 1 Lasher vs. Jackhammer fight, I'd show you how crappy teh Lasher really is.



?? I got about 2.5:1 kills using strictly lasher close range fighting TR tonight. I guess everyone I killed was "stupid".
I get killed by Lasher. Hell, this in an MMOFPS - you're going to die. Period. No matter how good you think you are you WILL die a good deal still. I might consider it on par with the Chaingun... might, but the Jackhammer will r0x0r you upz0r. Since TR MAX nerf (much needed, but there are still a good many more things that are much needed as well :ugh: ), I'd say the TR need time to adjust. It appears like they're getting owned a bit more than they used to. I think we all know why. So... give them time. Maybe they'll eventually learn to adjust and use tactics like the VS should have done by now.

Two and a half to one kill to death ratio isn't bad, but isn't good either. As a sniper, I killed around 12 people before an evil sniper finally sniped me. Does this make me god? Better yet... what are the kill to death ratios for the Jackhammer mastas? Much much better than 2.5:1 I'd wager. And I'd say the majority of the people going against the Jackhammer would agree with me.


All I did was instead of firing at where "opponent A" is standing at the time, I'd fire on either side of him and move backwards. TR and NC like to close distance because their weapons are usually more effective the closer they get.. The lasher doesn't share that property, so I usually back up while shooting on either side of the target. You may have superhuman twitch reflexes and be able to dance an encompassing barrage of lasher fire, but not everyone can, or does.
Yes. Not everyone does. I found that when you fire a barrage of Lasher fire in the general vicinity of a guy that I'd sometimes get the kill... Hell, there were times when stupid people would just keep straffing the same way and I could plant most shots on the stupid bastard even. But if you're using that barrage method, your foe should not be standing that, wetting his pants and thinking to himself "HOLY SHIT! Those VS weapons use energy!!! NOOOOO!!! I'm burnt toast!" They should be firing back at you (novel idea, eh?). Since their weapons hit instantly and you fired half of your shots and missed... well... you dead sir. You dead indeed. :)

I can't tell you who you're going to meet, and what experience you're going to have. If you say stupid people do stupid things, I have to believe you. But I believe you may be basing your decisions off of ONE or TWO encounters. Hell, maybe even a massive THREE. The people I fight seem to be organized, smart, and skillful. If the people you run into are not, then that's your problem. Weapons do not take into effect ease of use. They should be different possibly, but making the Lasher a very difficult weapon to use and the Jackhammer the easy deathstick of doom is not good. If you could kill a n00b Jackhammerer everytime as a skilled Lasherman, then I would not be writing this. But that's not the way it is, is it?



[/b]Then get to Markov, TR needs you.[/b]
I'm actually playing on all three empires as of now on different servers as of a few days ago. I was going to change my sig n' settings yesterday, but you know how that is... I just can't decide who to play... Since teh TR were nerfed, it looks like the Vangaurds and Jackhammers will dominate for awhile. I'm sure they'll eventually get a nerf (or the others a boost), but not for awhile. SOE and balance are like oil and water. If you mix them together long enough it'll eventually look like they blend together nicely, but you'll realize that the droplets of balance will settle at the bottom of SOE, forgotton and unwanted. Maybe later.

However, the past few days lag has been mine worst enemy... Invisible Jackhammerers are evil! :evil:


Yep, BR15 newb. My screencap is in the pic thread.
Good for you! :thumbsup:

Want a cookie? :rolleyes:


Jackhammer and Cycler are better weapons the closer they are to the target, as opposed to say the Lancer, which is better the farther away the target is. Even a "newb" like me knows that. Therefore since they have a common strength (and weakness), I believe they aren't exactly "apples to oranges".
I have no idea what empire you play for. I'm starting to think it's the non-existant one. The Cycler is an excellent medium - long range weapon. Due to it's RoF, it's also a good close range weapon (though I'd obviously rather take an AMP, Shotgun, or Jackhammer up close). I'd say the Gauss is actually a better weapon up close due to it's CoF expanding rather quickly for distance shots. The Gauss is very good up close, I'd even go as far to say that the Gauss is better than the Cycler at short ranges. I haven't made any hard calculations yet, I'll probably get back to ya on that.



So you're telling me that the Cycler is equally effective holding the trigger down point blank as it is holding the trigger down at 4x zoom base-to-tower distance? Are you sure you're playing "Planetside"? Wherever the Cycler snipers are, they sure aren't racking up any kills on me.
Where did I say you hold the trigger down, engaging in full auto like a drunken madman? If you assumed that I was not firing in bursts (like normal people who use the ARs at better than point blank), then that only reaffirms you being a newb.


On Markov, the Cycler only does full damage (maximum damage at maximum firing rate) at very close range as well. Apparently your server is different. Do they have a "cone of fire" where you play?
You make me laugh. All ARs and pistols lose damage over distance. I'm not so sure if missles, Lancer shots, or Lasher orbs lose damage over distance, but I know for a fact that EVERY AR DOES. While you do less damage to them, they do less damage to you. Why not snipe them from where it's a bit safer and you have cover? Jeez... you're really starting to make me wonder there, Agent Orange.



Yes, I'm sure it puts the lancer to shame. I've already explained my position on the Pulsar, but since I have both Lasher and Lancer certs, I have no reason to use it. I did use it once tonight to make sure it was still a viable combo with the lasher in combat, and it certainly was.
...?! The Pulsar puts the Lancer to shame? I'm not EVEN going to comment on that. As for your position on the Pulsar, you can think and use whatever weapons you want. I won't stop you from being inferior on the battlefield. ESPECIALLY when you think the Pulsar is better than the Lasher. :ugh:


***

[Zarparchior]

***

Yes, I can see you now, standing on that lone mountaintop, site implant zoomed into 12x, picking off Vanu snipers with your cycler from halfway across the continent...

At the range which a Cycler becomes much more effective than the lasher, I switch to Lancer, or surge closer. As with most weapons, there is a "sweet spot" in range for the Lasher.
You are Captain Assumption aren't ya? Not only do you assume things, but you assume newbish things. I can "snipe" with the Cycler, just like you can with the Guass and Pulsar. Of course, the Bolt Driver has much better range and damage, but we all know that. Long range does not equal extreme ranges. Long range means that the shotgun you fired will not even hit the guy, but your AR will still be able to do so fairly accurately, AS LONG AS FULL AUTOMATIC IS NOT USED (thought I'd put that in, as you'd probably assume I meant that I'd be running and jumping around at full auto asniping people behind several walls of a base on the other side of the continent.

I won't say that the Cycler is a better weapon than the Lasher. They are very different. I will say that if I can take out a Lasher user even 1/2 of the time at medium to close range with a Cycler that something is not right. HAs are supposed to be AI and dominate close up. That's what their for. If you are unable to do this due to design flaws of the gun, then maybe something needs to be changed slightly...

[quote]I'm gonna run out of BRs before I even get a chance to learn the ropes.

What's yours again?
Oh no! The question! I am not as leet as you claim you are! It appears I've only made BR 11, BR 9, and BR 6 (new NC guy) on my playing servers. I also started a new VS guy on Werner... but the lag was very very bad to say the least. I was hoping that Nightwalker's outift would have organization, instead of not like the rest of the VS. I say again, that I would be much higher in BR if I didn't work (do you? Do you even HAVE a job? :p) and if the lag hasn't been so monstrousitistilily unmanagable. And since I care about my future and am enrolling in college it looks like I'll have very very little time to play PS indeed. :(

Which brings me to another point... wasn't this game supposed to close the gap between casual gamer and power gamer? WTG SOE! I love that exp treadmill! :rolleyes:

And yes. I love that quote... If you're saying that I'm n00bish because I typed in |337, then you failed to miss the point of that. It was poking fun at the rest of the TR who were complaining about the nerf. I have and still agree with that nerf. If you don't have a flair for the satire that's okay. Most don't. :o

[Sando138]

Spiff, i cannot agree more. BR is a reflection of the number of captures and kills that you and your squads have gotten. True skill is not BR, it's getting the job done. BR reflects this, but not as well asthese would.
1: a kill and hack/damage taken ratio.
2: some way to assess your performanc in tactical situations.
3: your ability to effectively command a squad, with or without CR benefits.

[Zarparchior]

Didn't see your post Spiff, as I was busy typing a reply. ;)

Ya see Orange? I guess I'm not as much off an assclownhatn00b as you originally thought!

Oh wait, you a higher BR then me. I guess you know everything then. :rolleyes:

One of the reasons my VS character is so low is because my sqauds seemed to suck at killing, and we rarely captured any bases. What seemed to happen was that we'd go in, hack the CC, get killed, spawn back at tower, have NC/TR tank camp entrance and have 2 reavers camp upper floors. This is by far the most effective way to take out a tower. It seems so useful, and I see the NC and TR do it all the time. What's wrong with the VS? Need a good commander to tell you to use vehicles to their utmost abilities? :p

[Jarlo]

JakeLogan wrote..
Oh and Jarlo bullshit even the prowler which has the most armor of all the tanks takes some damage when it runs someone over.

I'm not sure why I am responding to someone who so clearly has no concept of how PS actually works but I'm bored at work anyway.

1) All tanks have the SAME ARMOR-- this has been proven time and again. The Prowler having more armor is a myth

2) Why would I lie about not taking damage in a vanguard while plowing infantry? I said it happened a few times and it did indeed happen. I have no way to explain it but I did it 3-4 times last night.

Know your facts... THEN write your arguements Jake.

Damn TR people, that spray and pray empire has lots of good people but they sure seem to be a noob magnet.

:trsucks:

[Slice]

Thank you zarp and spiff, now I don't have to type anything! And personally, I think, even though I'm a TR player, that the Dual-Cycler did need a NERF, its supposedly AV but was very good AI. I am fine with that, never used it anyway, wonder when the rest of the TR players will learn tho...:trrocks:

[Hunter83]

Originally posted by Nitsch
They should really just do away with the beamer secondary mode... what do they think you are going to do with ap rounds in a handgun?.... kill a max? The gun is "balanced" (ie doesn't hit as hard, less accurate and has a low ROF) because of the secondary mode which is totally worthless. Also everytime you fire you basicly set off a homing beacon to your location.

Umm, yes actually. I used my beamer to kill a MAX in a tower after I ran out of Lancer ammo.
If you don't like the Beamer when you're a clocker, try the AMP :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Hamma
I have always felt that way. I do not bitch and complain that my empire is too weak because I got owned on one or two occasions :p

I just wish for once, I'd see something other then:
Yesterday's Winner On Emerald
facilities held over time (03:00 to 03:00 local time)
Terran Republic

I have not once seen any other Empire win for the day. I check www.myplanetside.com almost every day.
I'm not sure if it's due to the weapons, or players. Weapons seem pretty balanced to me.
Hopefully the new incentives will help with that if it is due to players.

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by Agent White
I think we're underpowered. If the devs are reading this, I would like a minigun version of the lancer. I just hit this and couldn't stop laughing.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Originally posted by Slice
Thank you zarp and spiff, now I don't have to type anything! And personally, I think, even though I'm a TR player, that the Dual-Cycler did need a NERF, its supposedly AV but was very good AI. I am fine with that, never used it anyway, wonder when the rest of the TR players will learn tho...:trrocks:

I, too, am obviously a TR loyalist, and I agreed with the DC and Pounder nerfs myself. This game will get closer to the "middle place" of balance that we are all hoping for. And we're bound to break a few eggs (sorry, I really do hate cliche's) along the way - i.e. one empire is bound to have more nerfs than others. I just wonder if there's a way to let the devs know about "issues" that need to be addressed in a more civilized way than whining. *thinks* Ummmm.... nope... probably not. :p Whining is inevitable it seems.

[NeoTassadar]

Okay, skimmed through the rest of this thread. Lasher is meant to be used in large groups. Put the enemies into a crossfire of Lasher, and watch the effectiveness skyrocket, even more comparatively than the other weapons. Merely by it's concept, this will happen.

[Jarlo]

Hunter83--
yes VS gets owned on Emerald.. not sure why.

But they do win on other servers--- frequently on some. That does not mean anything about their weapons just population numbers and organization really.

The point is the vanu specific weapons (aside from Lancer) are clearly inferior to common pool weapons. Seems silly but that is true.

Oh and our max need help.

[Slice]

Hunter, other empires do win! Just not as common. I've seen both NC and Vanu up there, but it is usually TR. :D

[Nitsch]

Originally posted by Hunter83
Umm, yes actually. I used my beamer to kill a MAX in a tower after I ran out of Lancer ammo.
If you don't like the Beamer when you're a clocker, try the AMP :rolleyes:

That max was probably down enough in health you could have used your knife. He had to have had 0 armor and probably had low health. Pistol ammo (even AP) does next to nothing vs armored units (max's, vehicles and installation equipment and fortifications).

Click your beamer in ap mode and shoot a max in your squad and see how little you hurt him.

I use the AMP and it's a wonderful weapon, but I would love to use my empire's pistol like other empires do.... But, I mostly use an ACE, then pick up other empire's pistols when i am out.

[Zarparchior]

I agree with ya Spiff. People are much too whiney. I'll gladly debate with anyone the balance of the game, but I'll do my best to back up my incoherent complaints with as much factual data as possible.

Which is none. ;) :rolleyes:

But yes. People should learn that the devs have stopped listening to us. The more you whine, the more they nerf YOU. It doesn't matter if you're whining for about NC Jackhammers all the time... they'll figure out you're playing TR or VS and then nerf the Striker and the... uh... Pulsar some more. So don't whine. :p

I just wanted to get this out there, but I enjoy the sharing of opinions. I also enjoy the sharing of heated arguments (call me crazy). This by no means means that I want things to degrade into a name calling contest or ramble and keep bumping a thread up to get the "one up" on some guy. I just like to get things out there and maybe make people change their opinion, or at least think, "Hey... ya... he does have a point, eh?"

In summary, I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or start flames. I disagree strongly with Agent Orange's opinion - and he strongly disagrees with mine. That's okay! It's what makes the world go round. As long as you don't act like a retard and follow the Basicly Advanced Rules of the Forum (or BARF for short), you my friend. :D

Unless you're a crazy ass republican like Unregistered. ;)

[Agent White]

Originally posted by SpacemanSpiff
White, what are you talking about? The Jackhammer is an NC weapon, so you're reply to Zarp made no sense whatsoever.


I meant to type NC, thanks for the correction.


Being BR15 is hardly an effective statement in declaring yourself a non-newb. I'm not saying you are, but most people know that a high BR rank means diddly squat about a person's in-game effectiveness.


I disagree. To be a BR15 Vanu requires some knowledge of effective weapon use.


I'd rather gun with a good BR3 player than a BR20 with questionable ability.


With some empires, the same old "rush the CC hold down trigger" tactic can win. It can't with Vanu.


Really, everyone needs to stop declaring themselves BR15+ and, therefore, better than everyone that is not.


He was throwing around the word "newb". Newbs usually dont reside in the higher Vanu BRs on Markov.


First of all, 4x zoom is not "base-to-tower distance."


You've obviously never taken a tower within a base's SOI, or used a Lancer.


Secondly, the cycler is effective at short, medium, and long range. It's effectiveness at short range can be utilized with the "holding [of] the trigger" as you put it. However, everyone that is not a "newb" understands that medium to long range within Planetside can only be capitilized by short bursts - i.e. the tapping of the trigger. It's called recoil and the increase of the CoF.


Thank you for proving my point. A weapon only does its maximum potential damage at its highest firing rate. Since you have to reduce the firing rate on the weapon to be effective at all (Cone of Fire rears its ugly head) the weapon's effectiveness and potential is reduced. Therefore closing the distance and putting the target into a larger CoF makes the weapon more effective and more damaging. Any "newb" that has gone to the firing range knows this, but it seems that I have to repeatedly explain the obvious.


The Cycler's effectiveness at medium range is obvious, and I've killed bolt-driving players at long range with the Cycler as well.


I shot down a reaver with an AMP once, it doesn't make it ideal for this purpose. At long range I'll take an exo suit and a lancer or bolt driver over a cycler, anyone that doesn't is a fool. There's a reason people fear Lancers, and it isn't because they dont know what a Cycler or Gauss is.


The Gauss, too, as nearly the same effectiveness. Some argue whether or not which of the two weapons (Gauss and Cycler) are more accurate between the 3 mentioned distances, but that's not the issue here. You seem to have missed what Zarp was saying completely.


There is no way you can argue against the obvious fact that the Cycler (and Gauss for that matter) do more damage over time the closer you are to the target. That is the basis of my argument, and it is such an obvious and simple truth that I dont understand how it could come across as "confusing".


Again, BR has nothing to do with skill. *sigh* Agent White, I hope none of what I said came out too particularly harsh. I just had to post because it seems you and Zarp are talking about very different things and some confusion is pouring through this particular thread because of it.

Well seeing as you have this unique definition of what a "newb" is and that someone with BR1 who just bought the game can somehow be much more wise in the ways of planetside over someone who's worked their way up to a BR that (dare I say) might be higher than yours, I would like to know exactly what the definition is, and we'll see if I measure up. Otherwise you're just being pointlessly argumentative.

So to recap your points:

BR15+ = newb
Cycler = better from far away than up close, so its cone of fire actually shrinks at full auto.


Compelling stuff.

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Zarparchior
...Every few words I type are interrupted by a call from a customer, so please bear with me if this is a bit late in reply.


PlanetSide is more important than working.


Umm... No. What you say IS untrue, false, not in the least bit correct. ...

There's nothing deceptive about the cone of fire. The faster you shoot, the bigger it gets, reducing your ability to hit a target depending on its distance. This is elementary, and the basis of my argument regarding weapon effectiveness at full rate of fire.


Okay. I'll say we agree on this. Of course, if you say the same for the bolt driver and ARs, then newbdom ho...

I will re-iterate my point. A weapon like the cycler will do more damage to a target at distance if the person firing the cycler is crouched. This is due to reduced effect on the cone of fire, and thus more accuracy of the gun. The Lasher doesn't work this way, or at least is much more uniform. My original point stands.


I have never met a Jackhammerer that ducked. I have never met a Chaingunner that ducked (doesn't improve recoil that much anyway... :ugh: ....


The jackhammer has a smaller CoF when ducked and is therefore more effective that way against a longer range oppoonent. I will agree with you that it is a better tactic with the jackhammer to surge to your target rather than trying to use the jackhammer from range. My point stands, the Jackhammer does less damage to a target (beyond point blank range) if you are strafing it with the Jackhammer than if you were crouched and stationary. The contrast is more than that of the Lasher's accuracy quotient between crouched/strafing. Once again, I stand behind my statement.


Jeez... your reply almost made me think you were not a newb.


Namecalling will not disguise the fact that you are purposely not revealing what BR YOU are, or providing a screencap to back it up. In fact, it just makes you look desperate. Stay on the bleachers, rookie.


I believe you're still talking about the Lasher, but you called it the Lancer. Many would say that's a simple mistake. It is, but it's one that the newer people generally have trouble with. People who play any kind of time on the VS never confuse that.


I mix words up after having to repeat the obvious over and over, at 6 am in the morning no less. Are you saying I've hardly played my character and got BR15 by LFS spamming the sanc? Please post your BR16+ screencap in the pics thread so that I can be humbled before you. Otherwise, you look ridiculous and hypocritical.


Assuming you meant Lasher, you're right. It's accuracy is technically very very good, along with it's maximum range (check out weapon details - ...

Mmm, lashing, the bane of all infiltrators. The slow projectile speed of the Lasher is balanced against the fact that firing full auto at a target at 2x zoom distance will do more damage on impact than firing a jackhammer full auto at the same target. A lasher ball fired while strafing has the opportunity to do 100 percent damage to the target, while full auto on the jackhammer well beyond point blank never does.

[Agent White]

If there was some way we could set up a 1 on 1 Lasher vs. Jackhammer fight, I'd show you how crappy teh Lasher really is.


I'm on Markov, send me a tell. I would be glad to accomodate you. My Pulsar and Lasher versus your Jackhammer and Gauss. Unfortunately it won't match my true combat makeup as I use the Lancer to augment the Lasher, but we dont have time for you to get enough BR's for exo/standard/heavy/anti-vehicle.


.... I might consider it on par with the Chaingun... might, but the Jackhammer will r0x0r you upz0r.


The Jackhammer is a great weapon at really close range. That's why I try not to get real close to it, and make sure that anyone trying to close the distance has a world of Lasher fire to wade through before they get close enough to be effective.


Since TR MAX nerf (much needed, but there are still a good many more things that are much needed as well :ugh: ), I'd say the TR need time to adjust. ...

TR still isn't as skill dependent, but the old tactic of Max run-mode to stairwell or CC and set up shop isn't going to cut it anymore.


Two and a half to one kill to death ratio isn't bad, but isn't good either.


It's good when you're outnumbered and trying to storm a heavily defended tower. You will never get as many kills with med or heavy assault as you will with a lancer or bolt driver. However, killing the same guy over and over again and not securing his spawn point while his teammates maxes storm your squad's hacked CC isn't effective gameplay.


... And I'd say the majority of the people going against the Jackhammer would agree with me.


If I was rushing my own tower's stormed CC I'd love to have a Jackhammer instead of a Lasher, but overall the weapon isn't versatile enough to accomodate my playing style, or the style of others. It can be beat as long as you dont choose a point blank style of engagement.



Yes. Not everyone does. I found that when you fire a barrage of Lasher fire in the general vicinity of a guy that I'd sometimes get the kill... Hell, there were times when stupid people would just keep straffing the same way and I could plant most shots on the stupid bastard even. But if you're using that barrage method, your foe should not be standing that, wetting his pants and thinking to himself. You dead indeed. :)


Some simple math for you. Seeing as the Lasher always fires straight forward, its potential to do damage at say 150 metres is anywhere from zero to 100 percent. Zero being a miss, and 100 being a hit. Lashing damage, hit/miss ratio anywhere inbetween.

The jackhammer at 150 metres is (as a rhetorical estimate) zero to 35 percent.

At 150 metres, I would choose the Lasher. Case closed.


I can't tell you who you're going to meet, and what experience you're going to have. If you say stupid people do stupid things, I have to believe you. But I believe you may be basing your decisions off of ONE or TWO encounters.


9 hours of consecutive gameplay and persistent combat using exclusively the lasher/lancer combination. Undoubtedly more time than you have spent holding a Lasher.


Hell, maybe even a massive THREE. The people I fight seem to be organized, smart, and skillful. If the people you run into are not, then that's your problem. If you could kill a n00b Jackhammerer everytime as a skilled Lasherman, then I would not be writing this. But that's not the way it is, is it?



Your point revolves around the fact that the Jackhammer is a superior weapon at any distance. I postulate that the Jackhammer is inferior at any distance beyond the radius of a base's centre to outer wall. The only way we can see if the Jackhammer "pwnz lasher always" is to fight it out.


I'm actually playing on all three empires as of now on different servers as of a few days ago. I If you mix them together long enough it'll eventually look like they blend together nicely, but you'll realize that the droplets of balance will settle at the bottom of SOE, forgotton and unwanted. Maybe later.


Vanu are the most fun to play, as you get the greatest benefit when you master the specifics of their weapons, maxes and magrider. (The Thresher is... lacking for combat).


However, the past few days lag has been mine worst enemy... Invisible Jackhammerers are evil! :evil:



Sure. Blame the ping.



Good for you! :thumbsup:

Want a cookie? :rolleyes:


Don't start a pissing contest throwing the word "newb" around if you dont have the BEPs to back it up, rookie.


I have no idea what empire you play for. I'm starting to think it's the non-existant one. ...

Less time thinking about playing, more time playing and you won't need to call people newbs while being too ashamed to reveal your own BR.


...If you assumed that I was not firing in bursts (like normal people who use the ARs at better than point blank), then that only reaffirms you being a newb.



Maximum weapon damage potential = damage per round * rate of fire

Firing in bursts = reduced rate of fire = reduced weapon damage. The Lasher doesn't suffer from this handicap. MY POINT STANDS.



... I'm not so sure if missles, Lancer shots, or Lasher orbs lose damage over distance, but I know for a fact that EVERY AR DOES.


So does every heavy assault weapon EXCEPT THE LASHER. My point stands.


While you do less damage to them, they do less damage to you.


Unless they're hitting you with Lasher fire. Sigh.


Jeez... you're really starting to make me wonder there, Agent Orange.


Oooh name calling. No matter how many kindergarten sandbox insults you can throw at me, it won't make you any more experienced and it won't make you any less wrong. You can't snipe with the Lasher due to its orb velocity. If you could, and its accuracy quotient remained the same, it would be a 20 shot high ROF Lancer. The Lasher owns enough as it is. Feel free to take up my offer, Jackhammer versus Lasher.


...?! The Pulsar puts the Lancer to shame? I'm not EVEN going to comment on that. As for your position on the Pulsar, you can think and use whatever weapons you want. I won't stop you from being inferior on the battlefield. ESPECIALLY when you think the Pulsar is better than the Lasher. :ugh:


In this previous quote you said Lasher instead of Lancer. " Many would say that's a simple mistake. It is, but it's one that the newer people generally have trouble with. "

You misread my statement. I used the Pulsar to see if it was still a viable compliment to the Lasher, as I hadn't used them together extensively although they are designed to be mutually supplemental. I was pleased with the results. I dont use the Pulsar because I need the versatility and anti-max capabilities of the Lancer, and have the cert points to accomodate both weapons.

My character's name on Markov is AgentWhite, send me a tell when you want to eat Lasher.

[Slice]

Agent White, I have two things to saw, and wether you like em or not, I'm gonna say 'em.

1) STFU! Just shut up already! Damn...

2) You talk about zarp saying n00b alot, and yet you continuously use the word rookie in your last few posts. Hmmm...

[Kikinchikin]

dude fucking BR DOES NOT MATTER YOU DIPSHIT!

quit trying to make urself sound smart by using words such as "postulate." And quit trying to be kool by picking apart every single sentence of Zarps post, and dividing ur stupid ass post which says the same thing basically every line into 35 different sections where u write 3 words under one of Zarps quotes. Just stfu no one cares ur a BR 15 no one at all. And unlike u most people do believe its more important to have a job, for without a job you have no money and without money u have no planetside. And so what if zarp isnt BR 15? There are 3 xplanations for this.

1. He has multiple characters on other servers.
2. He has a life outside of Planetside (Gee what a novel idea)
3. He's been working on CR.

So quite calling people "rookies" when ur so pissed at zarp saying noob. :rolleyes:

Sorry everyone for the flame but it had to come out:) .

[DJsoixante]

wow, this has turned violent.
BUT from personal experience..... the vanu aren't underpowered, they are (in a polite way) generally worse players than others. Not all of them, but some are really thick :D

Soixante.

[Knuckles]

Agent White:

This whole post is addressed to You.

Normally, I�m quite a quiescent guy. I�m calm, friendly, reasonable and I think before I open my mouth. But I can�t deny it any longer�

- You�re pissing me off!

We�ve reasoned with You, debated, presented You with statistics and hard data, debunked all Your statements, but You� simply� won�t� listen!!!

There�s this doll, with a weight at the bottom, that You can punch around and it always gets right back up. (You know the one, right?) You are like that doll. Whatever we say, whatever we do, how many times we prove You wrong, You always gets right back up and counter with the same old � dumb � arguments!

I REALLY want to know what server You play on and the character name You use. I really do� You see, I want to make either a TR or an NC character just to get even the microscopic chance of actually meeting You in combat. That�s right � I�m willing to throw my calm, friendly, reasonable, tight, white, sorry Vanu ass right into this futile project, in order to kick Your ass. And kick Your ass I will - clear across Auraxis!

The minute I know Your name and server, You can be sure there�s a new enemy being born, and You�ll be able to tell when I�ve finally found You. You�ll get tells from the one that just wasted You (that�ll probably be me). Those tells will hardly be readable due to all the misspellings. The reason is that I will be howling with laughter as I�m typing them.

- Howling!


"With stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain."
-- Friedrich Schiller

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Knuckles
[B]Agent White:

We�ve reasoned with You, debated, presented You with statistics and hard data, debunked all Your statements, but You� simply� won�t� listen!!!


Where's the statistics? Where's the hard data? Where's the debunking? The only thing I've seen is a bunch of people agreeing and thinking that's an argument.

Do not reply to this message if you dont have "statistics" and "hard data" to present or you will just be humiliating yourself.


There�s this doll, with a weight at the bottom, that You can punch around and it always gets right back up. (You know the one, right?) You are like that doll.


Agreed, no matter how angry it makes you, the truth cannot be dissolved.


Whatever we say, whatever we do, how many times we prove You wrong, You always gets right back up and counter with the same old � dumb � arguments!


Proof? Huh? You must have me confused with someone else because there has been no "proof" or empirical data to contradict my claims.


I REALLY want to know what server You play on and the character name You use. I really do� You see, I want to make either a TR or an NC character just to get even the microscopic chance of actually meeting You in combat.


Now I can tell you haven't been reading my posts. AgentWhite, Markov.


That�s right � I�m willing to throw my calm, friendly, reasonable, tight, white, sorry Vanu ass right into this futile project, in order to kick Your ass. And kick Your ass I will - clear across Auraxis!


Ooh, I'm quivering.


The minute I know Your name and server, You can be sure there�s a new enemy being born, and You�ll be able to tell when I�ve finally found You.


AgentWhite. Markov. I say it in nearly every post. You're either retarded or blind, or maybe your eyes are retarded.


You�ll get tells from the one that just wasted You (that�ll probably be me). Those tells will hardly be readable due to all the misspellings. The reason is that I will be howling with laughter as I�m typing them.



Wow dude you live in a real small world. At least everyone else wanted to combat me for the sake of establishing weapon effectiveness versus combat scenario, to come to a concensus. You on other hand think there is some sort of exuberant gratification in store for you if you manage to kill my character in Planetside. That's just sad. I mean... really. You think my feelings will be hurt? OMG I SHOT AGENTWHITE I PWN HE IS TEH SUX!!111

<boggle>

Now remember, have a friend read this to you or write it down: AgentWhite, Markov.

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Lilbird2431
dude fucking BR DOES NOT MATTER YOU DIPSHIT!

quit trying to make urself sound smart by using words such as "postulate." And quit trying to be kool by picking apart every single sentence of Zarps post, and dividing ur stupid ass post which says the same thing basically every line into 35 different sections where u write 3 words under one of Zarps quotes. Just stfu no one cares ur a BR 15 no one at all. And unlike u most people do believe its more important to have a job, for without a job you have no money and without money u have no planetside. And so what if zarp isnt BR 15? There are 3 xplanations for this.

1. He has multiple characters on other servers.
2. He has a life outside of Planetside (Gee what a novel idea)
3. He's been working on CR.

So quite calling people "rookies" when ur so pissed at zarp saying noob. :rolleyes:

Sorry everyone for the flame but it had to come out:) .


If BR didn't matter he wouldn't be so ashamed to post his.

Either would you.

Newb. Only newbs can't get BEP.

Rookie.

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Slice
Agent White, I have two things to saw, and wether you like em or not, I'm gonna say 'em.

1) STFU! Just shut up already! Damn...

2) You talk about zarp saying n00b alot, and yet you continuously use the word rookie in your last few posts. Hmmm...


Wow, everyone just crawling off the bleachers today. Do you even play Planetside? Rookie?

[Agent White]

This is the guy calling me a "newb".

http://www.agentwhite.com/Zarp.JPG


Seeing as you've killed less than 1/10th of the number of people I have, Zarparchior, I suggest you do a little more listening and a little less running off at the mouth. ;)

[Madcow]

I never realized that one of the heads looked like Kurt Russell in Soldier.

[Nitsch]

Originally posted by Madcow

I never realized that one of the heads looked like Kurt Russell in Soldier.


Sony will be hearing from my attourney!

[Slice]

Well, bitch, I sure do. In fact, I played it from 9:00 PM EST to about 10 minutes before this post, thats straight my friend, no sleep, no breaks, no nothing. So you can just shut the fuck up, because you are very obviously a know-nothing dumbass who shouts his fat ass mouth off at people just to sound big and tough. You're probably some scrawny, wimpy little kid with no life, no friends, and nothing but online time. So please, just shut the fuck up, leave these forums, and make them a better place for everyone!

[Hamma]

Easy now fellas, lets feel the :love: not h8

k?

[Jarlo]

Stats from a post in the official forums...

Edit and trust me, I'm not a noob. Click links in my sig to see stats from that nifty new XML thingie on the front page of PSU.

(VS) Lasher:
Infantry - 5 shots / 20 round mag (5 sec)
MAX Unit - 22 shots / 20 round mag (20 sec) (note: Requires a reload)

(TR) Mini-Chaingun:
Infantry - 10 shots / 100 round mag (3 sec)
MAX Unit - 55 shots / 100 round mag (13 sec)

(NC) Jackhammer:
Infantry - 3 shots / 16 round mag (3 sec)
MAX Unit - 14 shots / 16 round mag (14 sec)

(NC) Scatter Pistol:
Infantry - 3 shots / 6 round mag (3 sec)

(TR) Cycler:
Infantry - 12 shots / 50 round mag (3 sec)

(NC) Gauss:
Infantry - 9 shots / 30 round mag (3 sec)

(VS) Pulsar:
Infantry - 11 shots / 40 round mag (4 sec)[/quote]

Everyone will admit that the pulsar is not a very good weapon. Yet even the Pulsar has a quicker time to kill, faster moving projectiles, faster fire rate and is more accurate while straffing.

Any number of fixes would work for the Lasher.

Fix ideas:

Fix number 1 -

1) Faster moving projectiles.
2) Faster firing rate.

Fix number 2 -

1) More damage per hit, inside of 30 meters.
2) Faster firing rate.

Fix number 3 -

1) More damage per hit, inside of 30 meters.
2) Faster moving projectiles.

Any one of those three would be helpful. In addition to those, a better damage per projectile on Maxes. The Lasher is the only HA that has to be reloaded to kill a max and on an average, takes 32.5% longer to kill a Max. (not counting reload time)

Last night I tried out two differnt rigs. I did a dual Jackhammer, with one loaded with AP and the other AI. And I tried the same thing with the Mini Chaingun. I was rocking with either set up! I would rip through 4-5 kills before I would be killed. That is way up from 1 - 1.5 kills per death with the lasher.

The lasher needs to perform like a 4 cert weapon. Not be obliterated in performance by a 2 cert weapon.
edit- Messed around with editing.

[Madcow]

The only problem with the chaingun stats is the assumption that 10 out of 10 shots will hit. I've never bothered to spend the certs needed (as I'd originally planned to) for the Mini Chaingun because in VR training with stationary targets it was taking ~18 rounds to take out infantry (due to the shots missing). Obviously you could choose to decrease the CoF and not just pound out ammo but in this case it would have actually taken more time to do that. Using AP rounds on infantry only increased you to ~22 rounds so I'm not sure why you'd carry anything but AP with the Chaingun. Even a close MAX target in VR would take over a clip (100 shots) of AP rounds to take out if you just let the Chaingun fire without releasing the button and I decided that by shooting in bursts it was still an unacceptable period of time to take a MAX down. You have to be so close for the Chaingun to be able to do anything, but if you're that close to a MAX you're most likely not walking out of that room if they're smart enough to keep you in front of them.
That CoF needs a tweak pretty badly, I don't want to spend the certs and then go on Jackhammer searches to find a weapon worth the 4 points.

[Jarlo]

You are also making the assumption that all of the lasher shots hit.. which also is VERY VERY rare. So the comparison still stands. Shot per shot and damage over time the lasher doesnt stand up to either hvy assault.

[Slice]

I've actually fallen to the Jackhammer-hunt tactic. I currently have 3 phoenixes, 3 gausses, 7 jackhammers, 3 mag-scatters, and a few other assorted odds and ends, such as med kits, grenades, etc. The only time the Chaingun is good is when:
1) You come up from behind the person, and surprise them. (Even this isn't foolproof, the flip around with a jackhammer and unload all 3 barrels on ya :( )
2) In a small, crowded room with few to no friendlies (such as a CC room)
3) You're destroying the newly spawned people from an AMS while your hacker hacks it.

Other then that, the chaingun sucks MAJOR. But hey, until when/if they change it, jackhammer hunting is fine with me! :D


(You should see the surprise evident when they are getting fired upon by their own weapon :p )

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Jarlo
You are also making the assumption that all of the lasher shots hit.. which also is VERY VERY rare. So the comparison still stands. Shot per shot and damage over time the lasher doesnt stand up to either hvy assault.

It's still not a straight comparison. First of all, the chaingun from VERY close range is still just better than 50%. Secondly, there is no damage at all done if you miss with a chaingun whereas the Lasher obviously still does damage. Because of that benefit, it should take more direct hits for the lasher to kill than the others. It makes no sense to have it equally powerful and to let it hurt people it doesn't hit. I do think it could use a speed increase, but I also think you might have to lessen the lashing effect in that case which might negate the benefit anyway. It seems like right now the Jackhammer is the only heavy assault that's actually working like you'd think it would.

[Jarlo]

I agree the chaingun isnt that good, I have used it myself many times.

The lash on the lasher is VERY overrated. It does 5 hp 5 armor if it passes very close to you.. only 33 shots to kill standard infantry--- LOOK OUT NOW!

8)

The main advantage of the lasher is that it does decent against vehicles and max without changing ammo. Esepcially anchored maxes where they sit still so you can unload your whole clip into them from 100 yards 8)

However the dev team is at least looking at the data on VS, which is all I really wanted. Im happy playing them but the only vs specific thing I use is magrider.

[Kikinchikin]

oh and white, If you wanna play by BR, then I'm BR 13 and 1/2 so dont give me any shit about that. And while it isn't quite as high as your "illustrious BR 15," I for one have a life and friends and a job so STFU you stupid "ROOKIE"

Yes i used ur word u stupid fool. >:|

[Arakiel]

I mean, considering the devs admitted that VS is underpowered, obviously it's just a giant conspiracy and not a valid problem with the faction.

The "observation" that VS is "unskilled" is such a fucking cop-out.

Here's the giant, glaring problem with VS: at the end of the day it all comes down to two things: Medium Assault and MAXes. The most common weapon type carried and the most effective ground assault armor are the two biggest determiners in whether or not a base capture works. We have the worst in both categories. Period. End of story. Fix the pulsar and our MAXes and we might be able to hold our own.

[Crono]

The Magrider pwns me with it's amazing ability to run me over.