Mechs

[Sputty]

Does anyone think there's a chance for mechs in a patch or Expansion pack? The types of mechs I would think of would be Mech Warrior type of mechs, but probably all are slow with big guns but have little mobility. Although I say that Mechs could be anything that Dev team could think of but I'm jsut saying what I think would be good.

[mistled]

I kind of doubt it. Mech's would be almost impossible to kill by people on foot, even it it was a squad, unless they had rocket launchers or something. I would think even a few of them would screw the play balance up pretty badly.

[Flashingfish]

NO MECHS

Sorry, but this has was discussed on the (old) official forums, and most people were against it. And like mistled said, they would disrupt the gameplay a bit too much ;/

[Toimu]

I call the MAX's Mechs.

[Warborn]

Sorry, but this has was discussed on the (old) official forums, and most people were against it.

Not directly related to the topic at hand, but what people on the forums think really makes absolutely no difference. Forum-goers are a minority, and a tiny minority at that. Furthermore, forum people tend to not know their ass from their elbow when it comes to game design, and wouldn't know a good idea if it kicked them in the face due to their rigid desire to ass-kiss the developer's every wish (prior to the game going live and their unwavering hatred for the developers blossoming, that is). So, no offense intended, but what people on a forum think isn't any indication of what's best for the game.


As for Mechs, I doubt it. It's possible though. Maybe not a 60 foot tall walking robot, but 20 feet (a super-MAX) would classify it as a Mech.

[Flashingfish]

Not directly related to the topic at hand, but what people on the forums think really makes absolutely no difference. Forum-goers are a minority, and a tiny minority at that. Furthermore, forum people tend to not know their ass from their elbow when it comes to game design, and wouldn't know a good idea if it kicked them in the face due to their rigid desire to ass-kiss the developer's every wish (prior to the game going live and their unwavering hatred for the developers blossoming, that is). So, no offense intended, but what people on a forum think isn't any indication of what's best for the game.

Sooooo..... why the hell are you on a forum? If people can't make suggestions what's the point? And if people can make suggestions they can also be put down. I am simply stating what the outcome of the previous discussion was - if that is too much for you then kindly leave the forum, seeing as you believe what we think has no indication of what's best for the game.

[�io]

Originally posted by Flashingfish
Sooooo..... why the hell are you on a forum?

Yeah i'm kinda curious about that too. I especially like how he said opinions on forums don't matter and then he gave his own. :lol:

[Flashingfish]

I mean, I'm sorry if I came across as some sort of elitest vet bastard (I hope I didn't) - but yeah why are you here ;/

[�io]

Don't worry about it Flashing, he'll probably just send you a "mean" and angry PM acknowledging his superiority. :lol:

[Omega]

Now now.. .calm down children.. No need to go into flame sessions. Opinions although they do NOT matter sometimes, they are sometimes HEARD and understood.

So there's no need to flame him or anyone else because of their opinion.


Justin

[�io]

We are not flaming him, trust me. We were merely pointing out the big flaw in his logic. But i am expecting another angry PM from him nevertheless. :p

[Tegadil]

I would like to see mechs.

Not anything like a Gundam, not like a Battletech-mech.

I'm thinking more of like a Protomech (1/3 - 1/2 the size of a mech, light weapons, operate in points of five) or a bi-pedal tank.

[�io]

Meh, MAXs will do for me. If i wanted mechs i'd get MechWarrior or something. It could be a possibilty for an expansion but i dunno, i prefer the current type than a mech war. :)

[Warborn]

Sooooo..... why the hell are you on a forum? If people can't make suggestions what's the point? And if people can make suggestions they can also be put down. I am simply stating what the outcome of the previous discussion was - if that is too much for you then kindly leave the forum, seeing as you believe what we think has no indication of what's best for the game.

It's a discussion forum. I'm here to discuss Planetside, not delude myself into thinking that, despite the fact that I (like you) know very little about how the game *really* works, I can honestly say whether or not something like larger Mech-like vehicles would fit in. Yes, you forum people like to believe that you're special, that you matter, and that the world stops and starts based on your demand, but fortunately, that's not the case at all. So in all honesty, what the outcome of the previous discussion was means quite little indeed, given that those discussing probably didn't have a clue about just what they were talking about. Saying "Well, a bunch of ignorant fans over at this other forum blew a lot of smoke out of their ass and decided that X idea isn't good" will contribute about as much as said ignorant fans' discussion did.

And as for you, Dio, you're an amusing diversion, little else. The day I actually get angry over anything written by an anonymous Internet personality is a sad day indeed. That being said, may I provide the following:

Think -> Comprehend -> Reply

That is all.

[powdahound]

What would the benefit be to a mech anyway? There are plenty of games designed for them. I don't think they'd fit in planetside AT ALL, besides look how many vehicles/armor combos you have to choose from already. :D

[zMessiahz]

Hey Warborn, while you are most likely correct in what us forum goers, including yourself, know... I gotta disagree on the outcome. While we may be a minority, dev teams do listen to forums. Certainly not individual people, but if enough ppl ask for or bitch about the same thing... games change. This is especially true for persistent worlds.

Look at this forum... the producer of PlanetSide posts here from time to time, so you know the dev team at least sees some of this stuff.

Now don't get on a high horse and tell me I have an inflated view of my own self worth. Its a community thing, not an individualistic thing.

[zMessiahz]

While we are at it... can I get a death star and super star destroyer??? :)

[Tegadil]

Originally posted by zMessiahz
While we are at it... can I get a death star and super star destroyer??? :)

Only if I get an A-Wing.

[Hamma]

If forums mean nothing than just dont post. Several Dev team members read PSU.

[Sputty]

I'd assume mechs would be a MAX/tank mixture...I think it'd fit as long as they aren't the deathly powerful Mechs that we know. Dillute them a little. Make the have a rocket launcher and a chain gun and make it have twice the amror of a tank and a thrid of the mobility. I was think a super MAX as well. Huge 80 foot mechs would be stupid but I thyink a smaller common pool mech, basically being a tank with legs, wuld be interesting but it's probably been discussed by the Devs alot more seriously than us but most people seem against it.

[Airlift]

I agree with Warborn to the extent that developers often heed forum outcry at their game's peril. They should always listen (or at least pretend to), but gaming enthusiasts do not a development team make. That isn't to say that forums are worthless. Quite the contrary, they are a great place to trade ideas and discuss them with people who obviously care enough to devote their time to your work. I just wouldn't want the dev team to place too much weight on the 'forum consensus' and end up screwing the game up in the process.

[Xtc]

Originally posted by Sputty
I'd assume mechs would be a MAX/tank mixture...I think it'd fit as long as they aren't the deathly powerful Mechs that we know. Dillute them a little. Make the have a rocket launcher and a chain gun and make it have twice the amror of a tank and a thrid of the mobility. I was think a super MAX as well. Huge 80 foot mechs would be stupid but I thyink a smaller common pool mech, basically being a tank with legs, wuld be interesting but it's probably been discussed by the Devs alot more seriously than us but most people seem against it.



i was having a similar idea if a mech WAS added it would actually be a MAX(suped up on double everything)

2x the size of a max
2x chainguns
2x armor
but say 1/2? or 1/4 agility

max's are pretty much a mech imo

i was hoping the MAX would be a mech :D

[Warborn]

Some of you seem to be misunderstanding. I'm not saying that there's no reason to have forums. Quite the contrary, they're extremely beneficial for games -- MMOGs in particular. These sorts of social games owe much of their success to the social relationships which prior to the game's release often blossom on forums like this one, and continue on into the game itself. Just look at EverQuest for proof. Without the kind of interaction you find on forums, games like EQ which offer piss-poor gameplay would be dead in the water. Social interaction is as important, if not more important (although the days of crap gameplay MMOGs is definitely waning) than the game itself.

So, no, I'm not saying that posting on forums is wrong. Or that talking about game-related issues is wrong. I do it fairly often myself, and I enjoy it too. Which is why I posted what I did. I've never discussed Planetside Mechs before, and I'm sure at least one other (the original poster) is in the same category. So who cares if some people on some other forum talked about it. It's not like they decided amongst themselves the future of Planetside. They were just talking, nothing more. So let us talk. Leave the "Well we talked about this a year ago and came to an agreement, so there's no use in you talking about it now" stuff at the door.

Oh, and as for the developers reading this forum, yeah, I know they do. But, I doubt anything that we the fans have thought of hasn't been considered in one form or another by them. Or, at least I hope not, given that thinking of cool stuff for Planetside is what they do for a living at the moment.

[Sputty]

There are two separate discussions in one forum..hehe...well, I think forums will always be useful and necessary..if we can't find a plavce to say out opinion openly then why live ina democracy

[Airlift]

Oh yeah, Mecha... I like them but they would be undeliverable. That makes them more or less heavy tanks in my book, only with a larger target profile and a ton of joints to cripple. Outside a universe that is centered around Mecha for story reasons, they don't make such great weapons. Something scaled like a MAX is a lot more useful.

[Warborn]

if we can't find a plavce to say out opinion openly then why live ina democracy

Forums aren't actually a democracy. You have no rights on them, save those the forum administrator provides you with. And even then, they can be revoked at any time. For instance, Hamma could IP ban me right now, and there wouldn't be anything I could say against it, as it's his forum, and I'm a guest here.

But, anyway, about those Mechs...

[mistled]

wait wait wait... let's go back to that whole the world doesn't start and stop because I say so bit.... wtf is that?? when did that start?? I think the world is quite happy starting and stopping as I see fit.

... about the mechs though. I still think it would screw with game balance to introduce something like a mech, even one as small as what some of you are saying. Introducing mech's basically forces this into a vehicle only game. How else do you stop a mech from wasting you?? How many people do you think you'll see in jeeps if they can't even hurt a mech?? I'm probably a little too pessimistic about their effects, but as someone who prefers to do battle on foot with rifles and machine guns, I do not want to be forced to carry a rocket launcher with me everywhere I go.

mistled

[Vimp]

I'm very much in favor to the idea of a mech. And since simply dropping anything into the game is gonna mess it up then the same goes for a mech introduction. Thus you introduce something like a Mech along with a bunch of things that balance it out as well.

A Mech for example could be something that could require all your certs in one area thus not everyone would be willing to sacrifice every other position just to use a mech. Mechs, like all things would have there draw backs to say the least. One of the best things about adding a mech would be the immense size and scale it would add to everything. a lone foot soldior would likly indeed choose to hide when he sees a mech on the horizon but that hardly makes the mech elite against all. A couple MAXs coming up behind a mech could do serious damage if the system is balanced out. Not to mention the tanks and other things.

A Foot soldior to a tank right now would be a buggy to a mech in commparison perhaps. Anyways. Point being games like Mechwarrior don't give you the since of size like a lumbering, 3 story mech would to a player standing beside it in PS.

[quiet]

Mechs in Mechwarrior (battletech) are way overpowered compared to other vehicles for no explainible reason. As far a PS game balance goes it would be easy to just make mechs similar to tanks, dealing with a mech could just be similar to dealing with a tank as far as armor and firepower goes. From a realism standpoint a mech couldn't have armor like a tank, though a 2 legged walker could do extremly effective crouch/stand pop up style attacking and scouting. I can imagine a very cool mecha expansion vehicle utilizing vanu tech, at least for the VS.

Something I feel is missing in PS is customization/uniqueness, something which Mechwarrior4 has tons of. I would like it if we could adjust/tweak/loadout the MAXs besides just selecting AI or AA or AT.

So I guess I'm saying mechs would be cool in my mind but I am really hoping they expand more on the MAX's.

[Mold]

only way i could see something that big working in ps is if it didnt have hardly any combat capability. like a giant walking AMS. Or perhaps it could be like an AMS, but more combat oriented instead of stealth. Like instead of a cloaking device it could have long range artillery and machine gun mounts. Even tho this post isnt about the AMS....i think the 3 empires should have their own ams designs.

mustt...resist..flaame...

[Flashingfish]

Warborn, if every single thing had been discussed before, and if there had been a definite conclusion made, would I have said that in every post made here? no.

There were so many mech discussion forums, and extremely long discussions, and there was a huge majority who agreed that it was a bad idea. And this was on the official forums. Which the devs read. Seeing as so many were against the idea, do you really think they would implement it into the game? Somehow I think not.

I'm sorry if I somehow angered you, and I take back whatever I've said.

:love:

[Warborn]

Seeing as so many were against the idea, do you really think they would implement it into the game? Somehow I think not.

Reading the forum and official website of a game does not make you a part of the development process. If a majority of ill-informed people agree, then that's good for them. Glad they can agree. But that doesn't mean they know what's best for the game, given the fact that they haven't even played the game before.

Now, once again, my point is that just because some little clique of forum people agreed on something, doesn't mean Planetside was in any way, shape or form affected. Honestly, who cares what other people decided. Let's let people discuss it again, with new people. If that's a problem, by all means, don't contribute. Or if you're feeling helpful, share with us the bounty of knowledge that the forum people somewhere else uncovered which led them to an agreement. Maybe everyone will agree that Mechs are a bad idea again. Or maybe things will turn out differently. After all, we have no clue what we're really talking about, so who knows what could happen.

I'm sorry if I somehow angered you, and I take back whatever I've said.

It's how I type. I don't litter my posts with emote-icons, and I don't try and sugar-coat what I say, so to the casual observer which is use to little heart shaped smiley faces and whatnot, I look angry. But trust me, I'm not.

[Flashingfish]

It's how I type. I don't litter my posts with emote-icons, and I don't try and sugar-coat what I say, so to the casual observer which is use to little heart shaped smiley faces and whatnot, I look angry. But trust me, I'm not.

I'm sorry, but I interpret this as an insult. Maybe I should say it less subtly: end it now.

[Warborn]

only way i could see something that big working in ps is if it didnt have hardly any combat capability. like a giant walking AMS. Or perhaps it could be like an AMS, but more combat oriented instead of stealth. Like instead of a cloaking device it could have long range artillery and machine gun mounts.

/agree

Having a walker serve as mobile artillery would be a good use for a Mech. NC would fire heavy mortar shells, VS would have something like extremely volitile globes of energy, and TR maybe something that fires a series of high-explosive shells in rapid succession. Each shell would do less damage individually, but still retaining the same overall power, while sticking with the theme of that Faction.

[Hamma]

Stop looking for a flame war :\

[Warborn]

Fixed.

[Camping Carl]

Mechs might be cool, but I doubt they would ever make it into the game. Sure, they're cool in games like mechwarrior, but wheels are more efficient. They just don't have any advantage over tank treads, I take wheels over legs any day.

[Warborn]

A tracked vehicle is far more stable and can support a lot of armor (legs are also a major weak point), but a vehicle which uses bipedal locomotion could in theory traverse much tougher terrain than a tracked tank, and would be more agile in combat. But, yeah, overall, a tank is a far better combat vehicle than a walking robot. For the same tonnage, you could get a hell of a lot more durable of a tank than you could a Mech.

[Camping Carl]

Exactly!

[Stalefish]

Mechs wouldn't unbalance the game at all. They're just like tanks with legs, you don't really have to give them alot of weapons, maybe just a couple of cannons and a machine gun. They could take two or three people to man (one driver, two gunners, although that might make them too big, maybe just a one-man mech) and they could have maybe less armor than a tank (easier for rockets to take them out). How would they be less balancing than a tank? You have to shoot a tank with a rocket too. :D

And as for it not fitting Planetside, the MAX armors are already basically mechs. You just supersize them and give them some bigger guns and wham, you've got a mech. If you think about how they did it in Neo-Cairo for Unreal Tournament, I believe they implemented them very well. If you have a problem fighting ground troops against mechs, fight them with your own. :)

Also, Warborn, with your post about the legs vs wheels. I believe they both have their advantages as well. Mechs stand higher, so in flat ground battles they'd have a longer range than a tank, and they'd also have the infamous "stomping" ability that everyone loves. But, instability is the price you pay for the extra advantages. Maybe make a mech with four legs to have increased stability and the range modifier as well?

[Sputty]

That'a good idea although I think all mechs should be two man at least as the heavy tanks are two man and it's more powerful than a tank

[Zatrais]

Mechs..

They're tall, big, lumbering.. the perfect target =)

[Warborn]

Also, Warborn, with your post about the legs vs wheels. I believe they both have their advantages as well. Mechs stand higher, so in flat ground battles they'd have a longer range than a tank, and they'd also have the infamous "stomping" ability that everyone loves. But, instability is the price you pay for the extra advantages. Maybe make a mech with four legs to have increased stability and the range modifier as well?

In order to stop anything but a soft target (like infantry) the Mech would have to be quite big, otherwise it wouldn't have enough weight to crush whatever it was stepping on, and that would most likely lead to the Mech toppling. Kicking might be a possibility, though.

Anyway, the negatives outweigh the positive from what I can tell. Having your movement centered around bipedal or even quadrupedal locomotion is a huge liability in some instances. Many ways to trip, or have a leg blown off or at least crippled, the fact that the Mech is a tall biped/quadruped would make it more vulnerable to being knocked over by a forceful blow. And beind knocked over would be a death sentence in most combat situations.

All the realism talk aside, Mechs weren't thought of for their battlefield usefulness. They're cool. Giant robots with lasers and missiles are really fun to fight and fight with in my experience, and in the experience of many others, given the success of the Mechwarrior franchise. All specifics aside though, for the same cost, and weight, a tank (or couple of tanks) can do what a Mech can do, but better.

[The Eternal]

To those of you who think you've come up with something original and a new explaination to balance mechs, trust me its been said and done a million times before you.

The Dev's gave a solid no on this once which i can't quote but it went something like, we won't have mechs because they would be unbalanced AND change the genre of the game.

And the MAX armors are closer to power armor from fallout series,
which by the way i opened a new discusion on power armor to which devs admited a type of power armor; then the dev's revealed the first MAX armor screenshots shortly after...
Theres a history lesson for you.

[Warborn]

And the MAX armors are closer to power armor from fallout series

Helluva lot more bulky than those suits of armor were. They're actually extremely similar to Spacemarine Dreadnaughts from Warhammer 40,000.

[Zartax]

Originally posted by Stalefish
I believe they both have their advantages as well. Mechs stand higher, so in flat ground battles they'd have a longer range than a tank, and they'd also have the infamous "stomping" ability that everyone loves. But, instability is the price you pay for the extra advantages. Maybe make a mech with four legs to have increased stability and the range modifier as well?

As stated before, Mechs are not as useful as a tank of the same tonnage can be. A modern tank have over a meter armour in the front, and a little less on the sides and back. Having that on a Mech would be impossible if the Mech isn't huge in size, which instead makes a great target. And the legs are too much of a softspot to not be considered as a huge disadvantage. One hit from a tank at one of the legs would render the Mech totally useless. Think Star Wars or Robocop, when the Mech falls over.

As for the increase in range, it would be minimal. If it is, say, 3 m taller, then the increase in range compared to a tank would be approximately 3 m. The range of a tank is several km, so the rangeadvantage is none.

A modern tank can go as fast as ~70 km/h through rough terrain and forrests, plowing through the trees like it was a plains. I find it hard to see a Mech doing that. The Mech might be better at extremely rough terrain though, but not that much better. The balance would be a problem. Some tanks can even travel on water, using the tracks as a propellant. A biped cannot do that.

But the stomping ability is cool though. :)

[Unknown]

Speaking of mechs...
For those of you Tribes 2 goers:
http://www.mechina.com/mod/

If you like mechs it could be a fun way to pass the time while we wait on PS :D

[Stalefish]

Tanks couldn't go through thick forest like a mech could, it's not like a tank can just mow down a tree. There aren't many things that can do that. :p

[Warborn]

... it's not like a tank can just mow down a tree.

Some of the heavier tanks from World War 2 were quite capable of running over trees and plowing through brick houses with no trouble. Even still, a tank would have a far easier time of it than a Mech would if they're both the same weight. A Mech would be prone to tripping.

[Zartax]

Originally posted by Warborn
Some of the heavier tanks from World War 2 were quite capable of running over trees and plowing through brick houses with no trouble.

If they could, just think about what todays tanks can do. A modern assault tank of 65 tons going 70 km/h mow down 3 dm thick pinetrees like toothpicks.

Then consider that Planetside is future. (Though, I hardly see the tanks in the game mowing trees. But it would be fun, and more realistic. Devs?)

[Warborn]

Terrain deformation creates a lot of problems and adds very little. So you won't be seeing trees being pushed over anytime soon, I don't think.

[Navaron]

I gotta say, the MAX is pretty much a mini mech, so that's as good as it'll get I think.

[Warborn]

Only things similar between the two is that both are generally humanoid, and both rely on some sort of power supply to function. MAX's are exoskeletons and likely respond to the wearer's movement, while Mechs are generally piloted with, y'know, levers and pedals and a control stick and whatever else. I think you'd be more accurate saying a tank is as close to a Mech as you're going to see. Only major difference between those two is that one uses tracks/hover technology to propel it, and the other uses legs.

[Navaron]

I meant in looks. Sorry. Blow a MAX up 40 times it's size and you've got an atlas.

[Powerflux]

Bam bam BOOOM!!! ZAAAP!! Pow pow BAM!
Bing POW!!! BAM BAM BAM!!!