The Planetside armaments predicament that�s plaguing us today

[OneManArmy]

Well I was going to make this all nice and fancy but since I am continuing to see more and more nerf posts I think I'll keep this simple.

First off I doubt the Jackhammer will get changed, I remember the devs saying a little while back that they were satisfied with how it was.

second If for some reason the smacktards win and the jackhammer does get nerfed then you will have to nerf the lasher because that gun flat out owns...

third I saw a few posts saying that the jackhammer needs to be nerfed because 90% or something of NC are using it. Well then we damn well better nerf the cycler because I see tons of Terrans using it and that gun will rip you apart too...

now, can't we all get along and share a nice big frosty glass of STFU? :love:

[1024]

I coudln't agree with you more. I wish all you whiners wuld hsut up.

Look, here it is, the one fact that ends all your whining about poeple owning you with the jackhammer: SHOTGUNS ARE SUPPOSED TO KICK ASS IN C.Q.C.!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Ghost06]

Fack, I though the Jackhammer was a sniper... :stupid: .. JK bro :p

EDIT: shat... wrong guy to quote :o

[Intruder]

Originally posted by 1024
SHOTGUNS ARE SUPPOSED TO KICK ASS IN C.Q.C.!!!



OMG and here I was using a shotgun to snipe with!

[Warborn]

The Jackhammer is a little too effective in close quarters fights. It doesn't need a massive nerf, but a slight one to put it more in line with the Mini-chaingun and Lasher would be welcome. And, just to let you know, people like to whine, but every whine has a basis. Wide-spread whines generally result from an actual problem. When the Jackhammer is nerfed, or the Mini-chaingun and Lasher buffed, it won't be because the people unhappy with the Jackhammer "won". It'll be because the wide-spread complaints were indicitive of a problem with game balance, and an actual problem with the game fixed. A lot of people tend to fault the developers for listening to the "whiners", but the fact is that a lot of the time you have a lot of people complaining about the same thing, there is something wrong with the game.

Originally posted by OneManArmy
third I saw a few posts saying that the jackhammer needs to be nerfed because 90% or something of NC are using it. Well then we damn well better nerf the cycler because I see tons of Terrans using it and that gun will rip you apart too...

We use the Cycler by default. The Punisher is really a poor weapon, and is used more for its underslung grenade launcher than anything else. So if you don't want to use it, your choices for an automatic rifle are down to the Suppressor or the Cycler. If the Lancer were not effective vs infantry, you'd be seeing the Pulsar a lot more too, but that doesn't mean the Pulsar is an incredibly good weapon, just that it happens to be the best from among the assault rifles.

[Hamma]

If not nerf the jackhammer, make the CG and VS weapon equivilants NOT SUCK, bring them up to par.

The chaingun sucks.. the VS weapons are getting upped.. the TR need the same lovin

[OneManArmy]

heh, thats the whole point warborn, nerfing the cycler would be stupid.. so is nerfing the jackhammer.... I'm all for making weapons powerful... :)

[ZionsFire]

yeah....ITS A FRIGGIN TRI BARRELED SHOTGUN IDIOTS ITS SUPPOSED TO KICK ASS! :flamemad:

[HawkEye]

:rofl: :stupid:

[Warborn]

Originally posted by OneManArmy
heh, thats the whole point warborn, nerfing the cycler would be stupid.. so is nerfing the jackhammer.... I'm all for making weapons powerful... :)

That's not the point at all, but I'm not going to get dragged into a Jackhammer debate again. Time will tell what the people who matter (the developers) think about the situation.

[ghost018]

Heavy Assault is worth 4 cert points for a reason. The weapons should be powerful. The Jackhammer is really affective and I'm okay with that...I'm not sure about the Vanu Heavy Assault weapon, but the Mini-ChainGun really really really really REALLY isn't worth a damn. Until it's improved, I'll continue looting Jackhammers to use against their makers.

ghost

[OneManArmy]

5 bucks says its wont get nerfed. unless the higer ups brain wash the devs...

[ZionsFire]

yes me and onemanarmy are taking bets anyone?

[Duffman]

Originally posted by ReaperofDeath27
yeah....ITS A FRIGGIN TRI BARRELED SHOTGUN IDIOTS ITS SUPPOSED TO KICK ASS! :flamemad:

:banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz: :banplz:

[Seer]

I actually like the lasher the way it is. I approach people from 30 meters and start strafing and spraying those orbs at them. It's like boiling a frog, by the time they realize they need to get out, they're already dead.

Ya know, unless they kill me while my orbs are in flight, but that doesn't happen often. Or I fail to kill them and they kill me in cq while I'm reloading, which happens quite often.

[ZionsFire]

nooooo me already ban once:scared:

[mikkyT]

yeah....ITS A FRIGGIN TRI BARRELED SHOTGUN IDIOTS ITS SUPPOSED TO KICK ASS!

I could say something similar for the DC MAX, but that got hit with the nerf bat, and so will the suxhammer

[kidriot]

When the Jackhammer is nerfed, or the Mini-chaingun and Lasher buffed, it won't be because the people unhappy with the Jackhammer "won". It'll be because the wide-spread complaints were indicitive of a problem with game balance, and an actual problem with the game fixed.

where were these "wide-spread complaints" about the jackhammer pre-TR max adjustment?

[mikkyT]

where were these "wide-spread complaints" about the jackhammer pre-TR max adjustment?

2 reasons...

1) we had something to fight back with then, and
2) we didnt want the nerf bat to start being weilded, because once its been swung, it won't stop.

[kidriot]

the pounder and DC are still very strong maxes. you can still send 2 or 3 in a tower and wipe out infantry like no tomorrow. all the splash dmg fix did was make it easier and feasible to run away from one.

the DC max is where it's supposed to be at. all AV maxes have a hard time with infantry. now that the DC has a tough time (and it isnt really that tough) with infantry it's where it's supposed to be at.

I'm not one for bandwagons but I am for needed adjustments. I've fought against jackhammers and sweepers. the only reason I'd fear a jackhammer over a sweeper user is if he/she knows how to use the alt fire mode.

1v1 and in close quarters, a jackhammer should have no equal. incidently it does, as the rocklet can wipe you out before you blink. that is the purpose of heavy assault. that it can quickly mow through infantry.

w/that in mind, instead of bringing the jackhammer down, they ought to raise the chaingun and lasher.

[BeerJedi]

I've got no issues with any of the weaponry out there.

And for that matter, most of the vehicles. btw... I love that Vanguard!!! wow!!! We stole one last nite on amerish, kept it runnin' for an hour!!! took out several unsuspecting NC with it. They see profile on the horizon.. ahh.. vanguard, one of ours... about a second later the first shell lands!!!

And it looks kick ass in the Black and Red.

Like my prowler, but that vanguard rocks!

[Jarlo]

You can blink at least once or twice before a rocklet gets you, it has a full 1 sec pause in secondary fire mode before it launches.

I killed ALOT of lasher users last night with my sweeper shotgun playing NC. At very close range-- it is just WRONG and further supports my decision to leave VS behind me.

Chaingun just needs COF tightened, otherwise it is a fun and nifty weapon.


I would MUCH prefer to see chaingun and lasher pumped up instead of jackhamma being nerfed.

[Knuckles]

[...] then you will have to nerf the lasher because that gun flat out owns... :huh:

Did I read that right? Lasher. Flat. Out. Owns?

Lemme tell Ya something. The Lasher is mindnumbingly useless. It can't possible own anything! I wouldn't even trust it with a library card!

At its intended range (close combat) it gets outdamaged by the one weapon that's been the laughingstock throughout whole beta and up to this very day - the Pulsar! And now the devs decided to improve that weapon instead of the Lasher?!?

...

If You got owned, it sure wasn't because of the weapon of Your enemy. You probably went up against an FPS God, in which case You would have been owned anyway, even if Your opponent would have been wielding a snickers bar (or that library card he just found littering the ground).

[Riyu]

From what I've seen, many VS use the Lasher as a long range weapon.

Yesterday, I was using 12x zoom (with range implant) sniping a guy with a Lasher. He ducked and sprayed my area and I was dead before my 2nd shot went off.

It may be weak in close range battles, but I think it's accuracy at longer ranges makes up for it. Just need to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the weapons and use it to what makes sense, not necessarily what it's meant for.

[OneManArmy]

I seriously doubt we were going against gods.... the lasher in the hands of someone who knows how to use it will cream you any day of the week. many a jackhammer totin' NC rednecks have fallen to the lasher. perhaps you should spend more time getting to know the purple beams of manlove. ;)

but I think we can all agree the chaingun sucks :lol: of course I hardly see anybody using it so....

[BladeRunner]

Originally posted by Seer
I actually like the lasher the way it is. I approach people from 30 meters and start strafing and spraying those orbs at them. It's like boiling a frog, by the time they realize they need to get out, they're already dead.

Ya know, unless they kill me while my orbs are in flight, but that doesn't happen often. Or I fail to kill them and they kill me in cq while I'm reloading, which happens quite often.

Listen to this man. He's a VS player, knows what he's talking about, and has made my point about why the jackhammer should not be nerfed. Also he used a sweet quote about frogs.


You guys are saying "bring the other 2 up to par" but you're not recognizing that the Lasher and the Chaingun have at least SOME medium to long range effectiveness. If you "bring them up to par" in CQC with the jackhammer, you're really making things unbalanced.

At 30m, the jackhammer WOULD NOT KILL someone who was standing completely still in an entire clip, even if they were letting you shoot them, and you were crouching

If you want to see about how far 30m is, check this screenshot.

http://blade.thexgamer.net/scripts/picture_frame.pl?PSScreenShot0205.jpg

edit: I'll even go so far as to say that at 30m, an entire jackhammer clip would barely scratch an infantry.

Oh, and I forgot to add, someone call the wahmbulance because OMA needs a dose of stfu.. :p :lol:

[AcidCat]

I don't have a problem with the Jackhammer. But as some have already mentioned, the mini chaingun needs help. The COF expansion is just ridiculous.

[OneManArmy]

I hate you.. I've always hated you the most.....

[Happy lil Elf]

I could say something similar for the DC MAX, but that got hit with the nerf bat, and so will the suxhammer

Ok...that was just lame. I mean come on, at least put some effort into it :rolleyes:

2) we didnt want the nerf bat to start being weilded, because once its been swung, it won't stop.

Of course now that your MAXs got hit with it, it's a FFA on everyone else, right?

Yes the MCG needs work, and yes the lasher could use a tweak. As they are now, only the lasher is worth the 4 certs and only barely. The MCG isn't worth anything since you get the cycler which is more accurate and can fire longer bursts than the MCG.

Does the above mean you should downgrade the Jackhammer? No. It means you should improve the Lasher a bit and make the MCG worth a damn. You get the Jackhammer nerfed and guess what? The MCG still sucks ass.

[Plato]

The MCG is currently worth about as much as tits on a bull - I hope the devs are checking the stats on it and make an improvement soon.

The Jackhammer is a much upgraded Sweeper... I think the idea of the MCG is to be a much upgraded Cycler. There are two problems:

- An upgraded Cycler is going to "pwnx" many and people will cry nerf like with the Jacksmurfs
- If they do a halfassed 'upgrade' over the cycler (like it is now), it's not going to be worth the 4 certs or be in-line with the the JH which also means much whining and bitching (like this)

They need to be careful improving the MCG. I wouldn't care if they scrapped it in favour of something new.

[Ducimus]

Oh yeah.... another NC player defending the jackhammer for fear of the nerfbat.

*golf clap*

Nice misleading post title, i thought it acutally contained an intelligent dicussion. Too bad its another Pro or anti JH thread.


>>now, can't we all get along and share a nice big frosty glass of STFU


Sure.. you go first.

[ZionsFire]

OMFG! U PEOPLE DONT LEARN DO YOU I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE(pulls hair out)U PEOPLE ARE STILLBITCHIN ABOUT IT OMFG! :domotwak: :flamemad:

[Duffman]

Originally posted by kidriot

the DC max is where it's supposed to be at. all AV maxes have a hard time with infantry. now that the DC has a tough time (and it isnt really that tough) with infantry it's where it's supposed to be at.

wow you are so wrong the DC max is useless now becasue it cant kill vehicles. Do you understand it cant kill them thats what it is for and it cant do it.

[Infernus]

yea we are cause look at the facts...

On emerald TR lost tons of its people to the NC after they nerfed the Daul Cycler. The Daul Cycler wasn't as great as everybody says it was. Since last teusday I have yet to see the TR lock a continet down. And do you kno where everybody went? Do you? Do you? They went to the god damn NC and their uber weapons.

[ZionsFire]

U are wrong there have u even looked at the map yall been pushin us back:mad:

[MilitantB0B]

In my opinion, the JH is exactly how it should be. I have only spent a short time testing the MCG and the lasher, so I won't speak of these.
The jackhammer follows in the style that this game has set for learning new weapons. It doesn't make you more deadly, nescarily (sp), just more specalized. The jackhammer is only good if you are close enough to read the brand name off his pants. Therefore, it kicks butt in CQC but really sucks in anything near medium distance. It fills a niche for a close quarters tool, aside from the sweeper shotgun.
In my opinion, if the other HW don't help the soldier in a similar way, then they need to be changed. You complain about how much the MCG and lasher suck, so why do you want to make them all like that? It costs 4 points, and all the HW ought to be worth 4 points.

[Plato]

Dual Cycler Max is still formidable. I liked it the way it was before. I use it less now but kept the cert.

It sucks that they made it less effective against infantry when that was all it was ever good at. The DC sucks against vehicles..you just get laughed at, shot up, and/or run over

[ZionsFire]

:stupid:

[Happy lil Elf]

No empires AV MAX tears through vehicles like paper, that's just the way it is. I will say the DC is just as effective as the Falcon though /shrug

[OneManArmy]

Originally posted by Ducimus
Oh yeah.... another NC player defending the jackhammer for fear of the nerfbat.

*golf clap*

Nice misleading post title, i thought it acutally contained an intelligent dicussion. Too bad its another Pro or anti JH thread.


>>now, can't we all get along and share a nice big frosty glass of STFU


Sure.. you go first.


:lol: Maybe, Mr. Recruit, if you pulled your head out of your ass for one second you might realize that some people aren�t playing empire favorites here, that MAYBE, just maybe some people want to keep the three side distinct in there weaponry instead of having everything being nerfed to a bloody pulp, The NC are heavy hitters we have the guns that pack a strong punch, fucking deal with it. Learn to use your empires strengths, and if you can't find any than either look harder or complain to the devs about making your weapons better not killing everyone else�s..

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Hamma
If not nerf the jackhammer, make the CG and VS weapon equivilants NOT SUCK, bring them up to par.

The chaingun sucks.. the VS weapons are getting upped.. the TR need the same lovin

Yep, they need to make the chain gun and lasher more powerful,
I think that the hammer is about right, now the other 2 need to be brought up to match.
make the chain gun cof smaller (so it works at a range) and let the lasher have a much greater "lash" dmg.
Then I think that all will be good.

[Airlift]

I have nothing more to say about balance other than: "nerf or tweak what you will, I'm still coming for your backpack"

On the other hand, I must warn you all that regardless of everything else, we cannot share a frosty glass of STFU, because STFU is shocking vulgarity and as such is unsupported in Planetside. Perhaps you should encourage everyone to enjoy a nice glass of happy pecan pie. ;)

[BladeRunner]

I don't know about you guys but I only really posted in this thread to razz OMA..

A Tall Cold Glass of STFU..

MR. T APPROVED

http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/mrtvsrenie2/images/tdrinksmilk.jpg

[AcidCat]

Originally posted by Plato


They need to be careful improving the MCG. I wouldn't care if they scrapped it in favour of something new.

Heck yeah. I wouldn't mind having say, a flamethrower.:D

Now that would be worth 4 certs!

[Plato]

I'll take a flamethrower! Smurfs and barnies on fire running around until they collapse in smokey heaps of cinders. I'll trade in the MCG for that :p

[12tontuna]

With the Heavy Assault Cert, why not have empire specific weaponry, as there is now....AND a common pool of 3 more like the Spec Assault line.

Like that Flamethrower, maybe a Quake Style Lighting Gun thing (does an EMP like blast, screws up maxes, vehicles) and perhaps a super plasma cloud spewing thing.

Or something.


BTW, I've been smoked at 30m by a n00bhammer. I had a lasher, and never seem to hit them enough. In closer, it's no contest...at all.

The MCG needs it's COF tightened...and maybe a secondary fire mode, that places it stationary and the fires REAL fast...allowing the creation of true choke points.

The Lasher projectiles needs to go MUCH faster than they do. I've been NC, TR and VS...I'm least afraid of the lasher.

[Cyber]

third I saw a few posts saying that the jackhammer needs to be nerfed because 90% or something of NC are using it. Well then we damn well better nerf the cycler because I see tons of Terrans using it and that gun will rip you apart too...

This point has probably already been made, but I haven't had time to read the whole thread so:

Cycler is not a heavy assault weapon. It's the empire specific medium assault weapon.

For a mere 2 cert points you get 3(!) good guns.

It's a cert nearly everyone will have. And 90% of the population could be (and should be) using these guns and guess what - it would be fine. A TON of people should be using them.

You can tell there's a problem with the NC though when the number of jackhammers > the number of guass rifles by a signficant margin.

The gauss should be the mainstay weapon for the NC with most squads equipted with that and other medium assault weapons backing up thier special assault or AV weapon with a few heavy assault guys. As it stands now the typical NC squad is something like 8 jackhammer users, a galaxy pilot and a guy who hasn't heard of the jackhammer yet.

:P

The same reasoning can be used on the Pulsar. It's underpowered because a horde of VS aren't using it. They're using the Punisher. It's been getting better though and I think this next minor tweak will fix the problem.

[Happy lil Elf]

I'm spending four certs, that's more than anything else in the game other than a reaver, for one god damned gun. It had better be able to kick the shit out of any medium or special assault weapon in the environment it's desinged for.

Since you only get one gun, you get no versatility with the cert. You get that gun and what that gun is capable of is all you get. For med assault you get not only 3 weapons all 3 of which are useful in various situations, but you get other certs opened up to you. For only 2 certs.

If I'm paying double that for only one gun, again, it better be something scary.

[Ducimus]

Originally posted by OneManArmy
:lol: Maybe, Mr. Recruit, if you pulled your head out of your ass for one second you might realize that some people aren�t playing empire favorites here,....blah blah blah blah blah..

Who the hell are you trying to kid? Now grab your frosty mug of STFU and chug it down already.

[Infernus]

Originally posted by Plato
I'll take a flamethrower! Smurfs and barnies on fire running around until they collapse in smokey heaps of cinders. I'll trade in the MCG for that :p

I'll trade in the MCG for anything that kills... but wait, I already did. Cycler Rocks! And the 4 cert points bought me a Mosquito. So now I get to fly everywhere and rip reavers to pieces. Works for me!

[Duffman]

there was goin to be a flame thrower but the polys said no.

Originally posted by OneManArmy
The NC are heavy hitters we have the guns that pack a strong punch, fucking deal with it. Learn to use your empires strengths, and if you can't find any than either look harder or complain to the devs about making your weapons better not killing everyone else�s..

ummm why do you "heavy hitters" have weapons like the guass and the pheniox that kill at long range. Thats why teh jackhammer is over powered not just becuase if it but becasue of the fact that if you are at long range you can just pull out the guass or phenix.

I will use the example of the DP max and the DC max which are only good inside becasue outside you cant lock down without being run over adn the range on them suck. The kicker is that they can switch to teh phenix to own at long range they have to stay cin CQC to live and tehy still got nerfed so teh jackhammer nerf is coming if the devs follow their prevous nerfing examples.

[The President]

Originally posted by Infernus1080
I'll trade in the MCG for anything that kills... but wait, I already did. Cycler Rocks! And the 4 cert points bought me a Mosquito. So now I get to fly everywhere and rip reavers to pieces. Works for me!

Nice to see people choosing the Skeeter over the Reaver. I can't wait to see how the new additions especially the Skyguard and the Liberator affect things. Will be interesting.

-The President:sniper:

[Onizuka]

I really think all nerfing should be stopped... i mean, the TR maxs were nerfed the end... its over. The game is pretty balanced by now

by the way: is that a "hot" cup of stfu?

[OneManArmy]

well considering the phoenix can only stay in the air for 5-6 seconds, flys slow as shit in a snow storm, and takes forever to reload I wouldnt exactally call it owning long distance..... not when a striker can lock on from friggen anywehre and pop off three shots before you even see the missle lock.... hmm...

[Duffman]

Originally posted by Onizuka
I really think all nerfing should be stopped... i mean, the TR maxs were nerfed the end... its over. The game is pretty balanced by now

hmm o yeah you are a NC

[ZionsFire]

NAH YA THINK! idiots all of u except for onizuka and MJBUDDY OF COURS;)

[Warborn]

Originally posted by OneManArmy
well considering the phoenix can only stay in the air for 5-6 seconds, flys slow as shit in a snow storm, and takes forever to reload I wouldnt exactally call it owning long distance..... not when a striker can lock on from friggen anywehre and pop off three shots before you even see the missle lock.... hmm...

The Phoenix travels faster than whatever you want to hit (unless it's after-burning), which is good enough. It also hits much harder than a Striker, and won't miss if your aim is obstructed by a tree or whatever, as the Striker is.

Also, the Striker's lock-on range is not your view distance. It's a fair bit inside. And even then, if ANYTHING gets between your crosshairs and the target, the missile reverts to dumbfire and continues on its previous heading, likely hitting into the ground or a terrain feature if you were trying to hit a land based target.

Anyway, the Phoenix is better for hitting things on the ground, the Striker for hitting things in the air. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I still think the Phoenix is more fun to use though.

[Knuckles]

I'm spending four certs, that's more than anything else in the game other than a reaver, for one god damned gun. It had better be able to kick the shit out of any medium or special assault weapon in the environment it's desinged for.

Since you only get one gun, you get no versatility with the cert. You get that gun and what that gun is capable of is all you get. For med assault you get not only 3 weapons all 3 of which are useful in various situations, but you get other certs opened up to you. For only 2 certs.

If I'm paying double that for only one gun, again, it better be something scary. Precisely my thoughts too.

... The only difference is that You get Your full value for those four points, while VS (and TR) don't.

I must confess I'm getting tired of people from other factions telling me everything from "use better tactics", "bring a friend if You want to kill the enemy" to "learn to use Your weapon, noob". I could go on a ranting stomp right here, that would surpass everything You've seen so far, on how much these remarks annoys me.

But I'm not going to do that. Instead I'm going to suggest the following:

Create a new VS character on a server of Your choice (*). Do the VR tour and come out with 6 brand new BR points to spend. Buy the Medium Assault cert. Buy the Heavy Assault Cert. Create a new favourite consisting of Agile Armour, a Lasher, ammo, hacking tool, some grenades and fill up with medi packs. Then go out there to "see what You can see"...

After a while it will begin to dawn on You. I assure You, it will.

- You'll be tought a stirn lesson in humility and flawed game design.


(*): Doesn't work that well for europeans since we only have 1 server over here. Playing on US servers is hardly an option for us since lag/ping plays a big role in PS.

[12tontuna]

Precisely my thoughts too.

... The only difference is that You get Your full value for those four points, while VS (and TR) don't.

I must confess I'm getting tired of people from other factions telling me everything from "use better tactics", "bring a friend if You want to kill the enemy" to "learn to use Your weapon, noob". I could go on a ranting stomp right here, that would surpass everything You've seen so far, on how much these remarks annoys me.

But I'm not going to do that. Instead I'm going to suggest the following:

Create a new VS character on a server of Your choice (*). Do the VR tour and come out with 6 brand new BR points to spend. Buy the Medium Assault cert. Buy the Heavy Assault Cert. Create a new favourite consisting of Agile Armour, a Lasher, ammo, hacking tool, some grenades and fill up with medi packs. Then go out there to "see what You can see"...

After a while it will begin to dawn on You. I assure You, it will.

- You'll be tought a stirn lesson in humility and flawed game design.



I've been on all sides of the fence. EXACTLY my thoughts.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by ghost018
Heavy Assault is worth 4 cert points for a reason. The weapons should be powerful. The Jackhammer is really affective and I'm okay with that...I'm not sure about the Vanu Heavy Assault weapon, but the Mini-ChainGun really really really really REALLY isn't worth a damn. Until it's improved, I'll continue looting Jackhammers to use against their makers.

ghost

Everyone in my outfit who has a HA cert has it simply to loot jackhammers.

Edit: Not only that but I see the VS doing that as well. Last night we were in a battle with some VS who came at us with jackhammers, it was pretty funny.

[Duffman]

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
I'm spending four certs, that's more than anything else in the game other than a reaver, for one god damned gun. It had better be able to kick the shit out of any medium or special assault weapon in the environment it's desinged for.

Since you only get one gun, you get no versatility with the cert. You get that gun and what that gun is capable of is all you get. For med assault you get not only 3 weapons all 3 of which are useful in various situations, but you get other certs opened up to you. For only 2 certs.

If I'm paying double that for only one gun, again, it better be something scary.

The whole point of not getting character ups as you leveled in this game is that a BR1 could still beat a BR20 and teh fact that you say that spending 4 cert points on something should give you a gun that can kick the shit out of anyone is not right.

[SmilingBandit]

*rubs eyes*

Did I just see the same post twice by different people?

[Madcow]

All right, I spent my 4 cert points to try an extended period of mini chain gun. I know it's useless, but I decided to try out a few of these 'theories' that people are throwing around. The 30 meter rule for the jackhammer is crap, plain and simple. Using surge to make sure that I was never within 30 meters of a jackhammer wielder out in the open I circle strafed him using burst fire on the chain gun. From that distance I'm lucky if 50% of my shots were hitting the target even using burst fire, but I was getting some shots in. He shot me 4 times, I died. I was full health, I was wearing reinforced, and nobody else joined in the battle.
Pushing the MCG out to 40+ proved about as useful as my trying to throw my TV 40+ meters. I think the first shot hits each time, then all bets are off. I can't hit them, they can't hit me, eventually they'll get around 30 meters away and waste me.
Looting a jackhammer from a body and the kills come easy, I surge in and pop of 3 shots without thinking. End of story (that reload rate is scary).
Using a cycler instead of the MCG I can keep the distance at 40ish meters and win the battle. At this point I'm tired of running backwards in fights and am quickly realizing how useless these tactics will be inside (thank goodness last night was one huge forest battle after another).
The MCG is pretty bad even against other weapons at medium range, but it's not awful. It's not as good as the cycler at all. At close range it's better than the cycler if you use burst fire, but not that much better. I found it most useful loading it up with AP rounds and circle strafing enemy MAXs to death (which it's great at).
So those claiming an entire magazine (16 shots) at 30 meters won't even scratch infantry need to stop with the tall tales. I'm pretty certain either the JH will get nerfed or they'll have to buff the others. I'm not sure how much longer I'll be happy to waste 4 cert points when I end up reverting back to the cycler when battles get tough.

[Onizuka]

the long distance rule with a jh isnt crap. have you even played with a jh for a good bit if at all. minis will take you down if you have a jackhammer equipped and your a good distance away.

[Duffman]

whats a good distance for you 40 meters 50 meters? The jackhammers range and rof is waht make it overpowered i dont care if it can kill me in 3 shots but from 30 meters i do. The MCG has about the same range as the jackhammer and unless you use burst (which with a chaingun kinda takes away teh point of the super rapid fire) you still wont hit them becasue the COF expands to fast.

Onizuka have you ever played with the MCG for a good bit of time?

I have played with both and yesterday i gave up the MCG because the only gun for HA i used was a JH anyways.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Onizuka
the long distance rule with a jh isnt crap. have you even played with a jh for a good bit if at all. minis will take you down if you have a jackhammer equipped and your a good distance away.

Did you bother to read what I wrote? I never said anything about the 'long distance rule', I specifically mentioned everybody talking about how at 30 meters the jackhammer was useless. It's not, it's barely less powerful than it is at point blank. A mini taking you down from further away than that is possible, but you'll have to stand still for an hour while somebody crouches and burst fires at you.
Have I played with a JH at all? Again, read my post before responding. Take off the blinders. Cyclers will take you down from a distance, anybody using an MCG from a distance is a masochist.

[OneManArmy]

wow, never expected this to get this large so I'll jsut say I like cheese, and that instead of nerfing the JH and making the NC have 4 certs wasted (which would be quickly unlearned by me) how about beefing up the MCG, lord knows I'd love to loot a few of those beauties if they actually worked..
personally I still think the lasher owns you in a head on fight.

[GTSticky]

Boiling a frog, ROFL!

[Bottleneck]

Did someone above actually say the jackhammer does the same damage as the chain gun? ROFL!!!! Chain gun is useful for one thing...really neato screenshots, thats about it.
Most infantry battle is either sniper range (if one is a sniper) or close combat so yes the jackhammer is a logical choice for them to use. I think the only really overpowered thing in the game is the magrider with its double range smash radius. The chaingun and lasher could really use a bump though

[Kaikou]

__ <Jackhammer



__ <Lasher
__ <Chaingun


^^^^That is how the HA weapons are now highest being most powerful



__ __ __ <That is how they SHOULD be, equally powerful in their own respect, I'd do something more elaborate like a little chart for how effective each one would be in with certain situations, indoors, outdoors, long range, short range, etc, but that would waste a lot of time :p

So, nerf the jackhammer down to the "usefulness" of the chaingun and lasher (lasher really isn't that bad though, its the MCG) or raise the lasher and chaingun to the usefulness of the jackhammer, simple concept.

[BladeRunner]

Originally posted by Madcow
All right, I spent my 4 cert points to try an extended period of mini chain gun. I know it's useless, but I decided to try out a few of these 'theories' that people are throwing around. The 30 meter rule for the jackhammer is crap, plain and simple. Using surge to make sure that I was never within 30 meters of a jackhammer wielder out in the open I circle strafed him using burst fire on the chain gun. From that distance I'm lucky if 50% of my shots were hitting the target even using burst fire, but I was getting some shots in. He shot me 4 times, I died. I was full health, I was wearing reinforced, and nobody else joined in the battle.
Pushing the MCG out to 40+ proved about as useful as my trying to throw my TV 40+ meters. I think the first shot hits each time, then all bets are off. I can't hit them, they can't hit me, eventually they'll get around 30 meters away and waste me.
Looting a jackhammer from a body and the kills come easy, I surge in and pop of 3 shots without thinking. End of story (that reload rate is scary).
Using a cycler instead of the MCG I can keep the distance at 40ish meters and win the battle. At this point I'm tired of running backwards in fights and am quickly realizing how useless these tactics will be inside (thank goodness last night was one huge forest battle after another).
The MCG is pretty bad even against other weapons at medium range, but it's not awful. It's not as good as the cycler at all. At close range it's better than the cycler if you use burst fire, but not that much better. I found it most useful loading it up with AP rounds and circle strafing enemy MAXs to death (which it's great at).
So those claiming an entire magazine (16 shots) at 30 meters won't even scratch infantry need to stop with the tall tales. I'm pretty certain either the JH will get nerfed or they'll have to buff the others. I'm not sure how much longer I'll be happy to waste 4 cert points when I end up reverting back to the cycler when battles get tough.

I was the one who made this point and I really appreciate your testing it. I wasn't sure, I was just looking at about what 30m was, and my memories. Apparently I was off. No hard feelings.

I always felt the Jh didn't need a nerf because it was only for close range. I think now I'm leaning towards that the MCG just needs a boost too.