Darkligher vs Infiltrator [Archive]

Doppler

2003-06-20, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by �io
I just wish they made a counter DL implant. Make it VERY limited so that infils stay nearly as they are but just make somethign to help the DL infested world cause sooner or later EVERY single person WILL have DL and the infils out there and gonna be pissed. :)

Dio,

Thid dead horse disingegrated months ago, if it makes you happy though you may beat a portion of it's tail. The overwhelming consensus even by some infiltrators is that darklight is fine as it is. The upshot to DL (for infiltrators( is that your blind as a bat when you use it. SOme tricky dick found during beta that the terran pistol can engage targets from outsid etheir DL range as can the AMP although with less success. I personaly tested this strategy in beta, the first thing thos bastards do is flip around in a circle and try and find whos shooting them. If your not willing to take this slow and staady apprach and have the balls for it there's always jammer gernades.

sandmtrailboss

2003-06-20, 02:42 AM

Thats the best god damn idea I have heard. I've been in my stealth suit alot lately. Thanx alot man I cant wait to try this on the battle field ! :cool:

MilitantB0B

2003-06-20, 02:43 AM

Personally, I have found in my experience as an infiltrator that jammer grenades do more harm then good. As soon as someone gets jammed they immideatly hose every corner in a 50 foot radius with lead. i find that the best counter for Darklight is to not give them a reason to turn it on until they can't, being dead and all. Of course, the widespread proliferation of darklight has meant that I can never enter a CC anymore, seeing as how there is always at least one person in there with DL on, but I can still cause havoc elsewhere.

As for the jammer grenades, I always carry one, but not for DL jamming, but for mine and wall turret jamming. I always think it is halarious when about 4 solders try to bring down a manned wall turret and keep getting gunned down, I just walk up to it, toos a jammer over the wall, and watch a very frustrated person curse as he trys to figure out why he can't get back into his turret. Please, always carry a jammer for wall turrets, it is a much fast alternative to AV weapons, especially when loaded int oa thumper or even a punisher.

SumYungGui

2003-06-20, 02:50 AM

they need to put in a few more implants that don't suffer from an acute case of suck. right now everyone and their epileptic dog has DL because there's nothing else worth using.

Sleepwalker

2003-06-20, 03:30 AM

seriously!
it's either DL or Surge, and i personally don't particularly want either.
has anyone used personal shield? is it good, and would it be good for a medic?

Jaged

2003-06-20, 03:35 AM

Audio implant ownes flat out. Especialy as an infl, knowing where the enemy is can be a HUGE help. It has helped me get more sneaky kills than any other implant I have used.

Also, on the subject of darklight. I personaly love darklight, and i am an infl. Hell, I don't even use it. I still love it. It seperates the good infls from the bad. A skilled infl dosent give the enemy reason to turn it on.

Madcow

2003-06-20, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by Sleepwalker
seriously!
it's either DL or Surge, and i personally don't particularly want either.
has anyone used personal shield? is it good, and would it be good for a medic?

Personal shield is by far the worst of the implants from my experimenting. As soon as you engage it, it begins to strip your stamina in a huge hurry (and since your stamina also happens to be your shield, you're losing shield pretty quickly). It makes absolutely no sense, it shouldn't drain the stamina until you're being injured (much like the melee booster implant).

In regards to dark light, am I the only one who's noticed lately that there's about a 50/50 chance of actually seeing if somebody is using DL? I bunch of times I've been stashed away barely visible, not moving at all only to have somebody walk right to me and blast me. Usually there is no indication at all that dark light is being used. I was so worried that I was doing something wrong (tripping an alarm, something) that I actually asked one of the guys who killed me and he let me know he was using dark light. It just wasn't showing next to his name for some reason.

Jaged

2003-06-20, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by Madcow
I actually asked one of the guys who killed me and he let me know he was using dark light. It just wasn't showing next to his name for some reason.
Same thing happened to me. Probably a glitch.

Tatter

2003-06-20, 10:31 AM

My only mini gripe about DL is that is should still continue to suck stamina when the player is still and crouched. You should not be able keep it on indifinitely.

But then this makes them a sitting target from outside DL range...hehe.

Streamline

2003-06-20, 01:37 PM

It does suck stamina when still and crouching but slower than if you are moving around.

In the next update you won't be able to see cloakers while zoomed. However, if you turn off the suit when you are at a distance. Then they won't see your siloette running out in he open either.

I believe there are times when you don't want the suit on. It's just a matter of knowing what those times are.

My issue with jammers is it takes so long to get to one or even throw the damn thing. I do use them on darklighters. I'll use them on anybody and anything it can effect. (mines,wall turrets) When indoors if i use a jammer i run. I use it as an escape tool. The problem is that by the time you can get back to a positive positon. Their DL timers up again and they're back in business.

What i think i'd like to see now is maybe a deployable decoy stealth suit. Add one boomer and i think i'd be happy.

Either that or an implant that reinforces your stealth suits ability to maintain a cloak while moving. Not really an anti DL implant. But the ability to track cloakers that have no choice but to move quickly without DL is lame. At that particular time it's like you don't even have a stealth suit so whats the point?

If they don't do anything help cloakers out. Then all you'll be seeing soon is n00b stealthers. Cuz anyone that has played it extensively knows that theres no point with all the darklighters. Then again if the number of stealthers decreases then you won't see as many darklighters.

Not all of the other implants suck. They just arent used the right way or with the right armor. Shield is actually ok if you know how to use it. It's not going to be anyones savior. But if used at the right time and you're in the right armor it works ok. Just don't try using it with a stealth suit on. You become uncloaked when you do. Unless you don't care. I flipped my shield on while hacking a tower once when i was very close to finishing and some guy had come up behind me and started to ready his weapon. He did kill me pretty quick but the shield held out long enough to get the hack. Thats when i respawned got my lasher and went upstairs to kick his ass.

So as for the medic question... maybe... if you are repairing someone, you are somewhat helpless. So making repairs with the shield on? maybe.

Maybe a BR18 sniper could use it as a third implant too. I could see it in a sniper duel. Or really anytime you just wanna poke your head out for sec and dont want it getting shot off.

Most ppls reason for saying the shield sucks is cuz you really can't use it in combat long enough to be effective.

Jaged said it Audio Amp owns all. IMO If you are an infil the two best implants are AA and surge. Though i swap AA out for melee booster all the time.

Madcow

2003-06-20, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Stream|ine
It does suck stamina when still and crouching but slower than if you are moving around.

It sucks the stamina slower than the stamina replenishes itself. It just drops to 99 and then back to 100 over and over.

If they don't do anything help cloakers out. Then all you'll be seeing soon is n00b stealthers. Cuz anyone that has played it extensively knows that theres no point with all the darklighters. Then again if the number of stealthers decreases then you won't see as many darklighters.

There's no point at the CC, and often inside bases themselves. You really need to pick your battles though. Using nothing but plasma grenades and my knife I got 30+ kills over the course of a few hours last night with my infil, and that was with horrific lag that kept costing me dearly.
Snipers on a neighboring hill holding your people down, hemming them inside a base? Take your time, get outside the base. Feel free to run once you get along the side of them (they're zoomed in, they have no peripheral vision at all). Once you get fairly close, crouch and move in just in case they're using audio implant. Now have fun slaughtering. If you have the melee implant you can take your time going from person to person killing. If you're discovered, it will most likely take 2 plasma grenades to get rid of everybody nearby.
Ant line of enemies running towards your base? Get behind the last one and feel free to run too. They're worried about the people in front of them, and can't afford to switch on darklight and lose their vision of who is shooting at them. Just wait for them to slow down or stop and get rid of them. If the battle is intense, make sure your alt mode on your knife is on at all times. It might be noisy, but they've got too many other sounds flooding their ears.

2coasts

2003-06-20, 02:02 PM

I'm an infiltrator, and yes the easiest way to not have to worry about DL is just to kill the person without them ever knowing you were there, but that gets booring. As an infiltrator you do long for some responce from your vicitms.

For example, one time i was working a sniper hill and there were 3 snipers all in a row. So i walk up to the first, kill him with an amp, then immidiatly to the second, then the third. They all patiently awaited their turns to die. Its never hard to get tons of kills being an infl when you don't give the enemy a chance to fight back. Often you can find 2 snipers sitting next to each other like a pair of lovebirds, perfect for placing one boomer between and blowing them both sky high.

The real challenge is killing someone as an infl once they knowof your presence. That is where the real fun comes. This is why, if I encounter multiple snipers and have arrived at the last, or if i encounter a lone sniper, i try to have a little fun. I'll start off with a jamming grenade from a safe location. Then mabey torture him by lobbing plasma grenades at his location, or perhaps even by turning on that loud chainblade and lunging at him. The funniest thing is when a sniper realises hes been hit with a jammer, stands up, looks around despertly, and runs like a coward.

Thats not to say that it isnt fun to coldly walk up and dispatch snipers as they do to their vicitms, but just that sometimes it too easy.

btw, perhaps the funnest thing to do as an infiltrator is to battle another infiltrator, thats why i have DL as my first implant. you can battle with another infiltrator, stalk him, shadow him, for long periods of times, its the hunt that is fun. and since you are an infiltrator you always know what to look for, its wonderfull to see another like yourself, acting just as you would. you shadow him untill you are within DL range, then slaughter him.

Jaged

2003-06-20, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Stream|ine
If they don't do anything help cloakers out. Then all you'll be seeing soon is n00b stealthers. Cuz anyone that has played it extensively knows that theres no point with all the darklighters. Then again if the number of stealthers decreases then you won't see as many darklighters.
There is some truth to that. After all, the only cloaker you ever see is a n00b cloaker. The good ones kill before the enemy knows what is happening. Also, you said that anyone who has played a cloaker extensively (like myself) knows that there is no point with all the darklighters. This could not be further from the truth! All a skilled cloaker has to do is not give the enemy reason to turn darklight on. I always stick to this theory. I have died more times to friendly fire than to enemy darklight! It realy works. I suggest you try a cloaker before saying that they are useless. On a good day, I can be a killing machine. There is nothing more deadly than hacking an enemy AMS and desconstructing it right under there noses.

aiwest420

2003-06-20, 05:07 PM

Streamline

2003-06-21, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Jaged
There is some truth to that. After all, the only cloaker you ever see is a n00b cloaker. The good ones kill before the enemy knows what is happening. Also, you said that anyone who has played a cloaker extensively (like myself) knows that there is no point with all the darklighters. This could not be further from the truth! All a skilled cloaker has to do is not give the enemy reason to turn darklight on. I always stick to this theory. I have died more times to friendly fire than to enemy darklight! It realy works. I suggest you try a cloaker before saying that they are useless. On a good day, I can be a killing machine. There is nothing more deadly than hacking an enemy AMS and desconstructing it right under there noses.

Oh i have played much stealther. Believe me, since beta i've easily logged 3,000+ stealther kills. (thats kills as a stealther) there's a little over half that on emerald alone. About the last 150 or so kills on markov are not stealth kills. I played several br9s and a br17 in beta. All as infiltrator. So i do believe i've logged the time to know what i'm talkin about. Hell, i've probably logged more closet time than you've logged have cloak time.

I didn't mean cloaker were useless... i ment that your efforts as a cloaker generally are. The longer the game is played the less your old tricks work. Jackin AMS' is fine and dandy and all. But all it takes is one guy to run around the AMS spraying suppressor fire anywhere you could possibly hide.

Sure, "don't give guy a reason to turn it on" good theory but nobody has to have a reason to turn on DL. It just becomes instinct to turn it on whenever you get the urge. I've been killed plenty of times when 1) the DL icon doesnt show. 2) im not moving but they see me anyways. 3) im not handling any equipment and they still see me anyway. Times when there is just no way you could see me but was spotted anyway. Other times i've run right past ppl full sprint and had them totally miss me.

Now just cuz i got caught by DL does that make me a lesser stealther? Cuz i'm happy to pit my skills up against anybodies really. I just think there are too many things you just cant count on. Like not getting TKed or DL spammin wh0res.

2coasts

2003-06-21, 11:11 AM

I agree, there are times when you cannot help being caught, times when you cant explain how the enemy saw you. But then ofcourse there are the other times where the enemy runs right into you, stops, takes 1 step to the left or right and keeps running :p

SumYungGui

2003-06-21, 02:56 PM

I still stand by what I said. get some implants into the game that don't suffer from suck-itis and darklight will be more 'balanced'. by balanced I mean every single person over battle rank 6 won't have it because they'd actually be sacrificing some of these new 'good implants' in order to spot infiltrators.

�io

2003-06-21, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by SumYungGui
I still stand by what I said. get some implants into the game that don't suffer from suck-itis and darklight will be more 'balanced'. by balanced I mean every single person over battle rank 6 won't have it because they'd actually be sacrificing some of these new 'good implants' in order to spot infiltrators.

:stupid:

Lonehunter

2003-06-21, 04:51 PM

Stream|ine. Aren't you that guy who pretends to be a girl?

�io

2003-06-21, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Lonehunter187
Stream|ine. Aren't you that guy who pretends to be a girl?

Negative, that's SpaceDrake a.k.a. Lise.

Diviant

2003-06-21, 05:30 PM

But then ofcourse there are the other times where the enemy runs right into you, stops, takes 1 step to the left or right and keeps running

That happens so much, it makes me wonder....

I'll be running, cloaked (which makes you REALLY visible) and turn a corner, and run right into an enemy. I immediately crouch and stop. They just run by and I sit there amazed for a while.....then chase them down and kill them.

2coasts

2003-06-21, 10:41 PM

they are probably using auto run...

MilitantB0B

2003-06-21, 10:59 PM

Smaug

2003-06-21, 11:01 PM

Seriously infils, why all the whining? You have the biggest advantage in the whole game! You can't be seen! How do you think normal exos feel when they get killed by an infil. They don't say awww man stupid infil suits they need to be nerfed, too many cloak spammers. Well some might, but I say good job. So get creative, don't just run into people and expect not to get killed. Yeah they have dlight so what thats the fun of the game, 1 against 1. On a different note I think its hilarious when an infil tries to knife me(sniper). As soon as I hear the knife buzz I unzoom, run to the right, turn on dlight and pop them in the head with BD. One hit kill.

MilitantB0B

2003-06-21, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by 2coasts
I agree, there are times when you cannot help being caught, times when you cant explain how the enemy saw you. But then ofcourse there are the other times where the enemy runs right into you, stops, takes 1 step to the left or right and keeps running :p I don't mean to double post, but I just saw this.
Sometimes, I think the reason I get caught is that people are using the poor-mans darklight. The poor-mans darklight is when you think there is a infiltrator, but you don't know where, so you spray down every corner with lead until on drops over dead. Thats why I always keep my infiltrator out of corners. in fact, sometimes the safest place to be is right next to the enemy. One time I was sneaking my way into a AMS bubble, someone saw me, I fired a couple of shot, so did he, but I ran away. He gets his equipment and procceds to hose down every part inside the bubble with lead, except my spot. Why? Because I was right next to a mostion sensor and he didn't want the grief. I waited till he was confident I was gone, hacked it, and drove it away. :D

EDIT:
Seriously infils, why all the whining? You have the biggest advantage in the whole game! You can't be seen! How do you think normal exos feel when they get killed by an infil. They don't say awww man stupid infil suits they need to be nerfed, too many cloak spammers. Well some might, but I say good job. So get creative, don't just run into people and expect not to get killed. Yeah they have dlight so what thats the fun of the game, 1 against 1. On a different note I think its hilarious when an infil tries to knife me(sniper). As soon as I hear the knife buzz I unzoom, run to the right, turn on dlight and pop them in the head with BD. One hit kill. The thing is that every thing in this game has a counter, I am willing to deal with that. The only thing is that every other counter has something to do with skill. A tank can still kill a AV soldier, if he is more skilled then the soldier. A reaver can still take out a AA MAX if he is more skilled then the MAX. A infiltraotr is pretty much dead when they are confronted with a DarkLighter. It is a skilless counter to, perhaps the games most skilled position. yes, you can hit him with a jammer, but then he just uses the poor mans DL ilistrated above. I personally am fine with DarkLight, if it weren't for the fact that EVERY soldier above BR6 has it. Improve the other implants and give people an alternative. By the by, I am not complaining, just illistrating a problem I have spent the better part of my time in this game dealling with.

�io

2003-06-21, 11:11 PM

Wait you were beside a motion sensor and he didn't see you ?

MilitantB0B

2003-06-21, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by �io
Wait you were beside a motion sensor and he didn't see you ? Nope, motion sensor only detects motion. ;) And only fast motion at that, crouch-walk and your set. ;)

Smaug

2003-06-22, 12:24 AM

I see what you mean bob, but if there wasn't a dlight in the game then almost everyone would be infil. Then it wouldn't be the dreaded sniper-side but it would be cloaker-side. I have no idea how you could make dlight more skill oriented? Still you are right, we need some more kick ass implants

MilitantB0B

2003-06-22, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by Smaug
I see what you mean bob, but if there wasn't a dlight in the game then almost everyone would be infil. Then it wouldn't be the dreaded sniper-side but it would be cloaker-side. I have no idea how you could make dlight more skill oriented? Still you are right, we need some more kick ass implants There really is no way to make it skill oriented, and I don't want cloaker-side as much as the next guy, but right now there is very little choices if you want a good implant. Most people pick up darklight even if they have never had a problem with cloakers before just because most of the other ones suck. Make the other ones suck, you won't see so much darklight.

2coasts

2003-06-22, 12:29 AM

wow surge is really really effective as an inf

it allows you to outrun spitfires, to cut down your visibility time, and to run right into a heated battle with very little chance of being seen, i cant explain it but its wonderfull

Jaged

2003-06-22, 04:33 AM

I guess bob is right, there is a problem w/ darklight. Mabey if they made it use more stamina, or better yet, not allow the user to see non cloaked people while it is on!

Streamline

2003-06-22, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by �io
Negative, that's SpaceDrake a.k.a. Lise.

I do use a chick avatar. I think thats obvious by my sig.

�io

2003-06-22, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Stream|ine
I do use a chick avatar. I think thats obvious by my sig.

Yeah but that's nothing, heck 98% of the female characters are dudes. :lol:

SpaceDrake is the only one i know (so far) crazy enough to post in the community as a gurl. :D

Madcow

2003-06-22, 08:03 PM

Please, give me dark light and being visible to snipers again. This silent nerf on infil is dirty pool, and completely took the fun out of playing an infil char. You're fixing the bug that allowed snipers to see cloaked chars by making it so everybody can see cloaked chars? How does this make the slightest lick of sense? The only way to be invisible now is to be completely still, which is also a fantastic way of dying constantly. Even a crouch walk makes you visible to anybody bothering to take in their surroundings even a little bit. I was really starting to enjoy my infil char, I don't plan on logging him on again unless/until they actually fix this. I guess at least I still have my main char, but it's interesting that people were complaining that DL was making it too difficult to play an infil and now they've made it so only an idiot would bother to spend the implant to get DL. If you can't see an infil now, you're in sorry shape.

MilitantB0B

2003-06-22, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Madcow
Please, give me dark light and being visible to snipers again. This silent nerf on infil is dirty pool, and completely took the fun out of playing an infil char. You're fixing the bug that allowed snipers to see cloaked chars by making it so everybody can see cloaked chars? How does this make the slightest lick of sense? The only way to be invisible now is to be completely still, which is also a fantastic way of dying constantly. Even a crouch walk makes you visible to anybody bothering to take in their surroundings even a little bit. I was really starting to enjoy my infil char, I don't plan on logging him on again unless/until they actually fix this. I guess at least I still have my main char, but it's interesting that people were complaining that DL was making it too difficult to play an infil and now they've made it so only an idiot would bother to spend the implant to get DL. If you can't see an infil now, you're in sorry shape. :confused: :confused: :confused:
The only changes made recently to the infiltration suit is a good one, it took down the likely hood of being sniped, nothing was changed in how people up close saw you. If you thik people can spot infiltrators to easy, then it has always been like that to you, cause nothing has changed. Cna you please explain what you mean by this?

Madcow

2003-06-23, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
:confused: :confused: :confused:
The only changes made recently to the infiltration suit is a good one, it took down the likely hood of being sniped, nothing was changed in how people up close saw you. If you thik people can spot infiltrators to easy, then it has always been like that to you, cause nothing has changed. Cna you please explain what you mean by this?

When I did a crouch walk before this patch and checked myself in 3rd person, I was barely (if at all) visible. Now if I do a crouch walk and check myself I'm incredibly visible. I am seeing enemy infil crouch walking around all the time, this is something I wasn't seeing before. As far as the likelihood of being sniped, I thought that was a bit annoying before but in a short game session today I was easily sniped more than I've been all month and each time was during a crouch walk. The infil suit is absolutely more visible than it has ever been, and it's not making for fun times. I've also had a few occasions of standing still and getting creamed, but from what I've read on the official board there's some sort of glitch which occasionally cuts out the infil suit (which is nice in itself).

Streamline

2003-06-23, 09:12 PM

I killed alot of crouchwalkers yesterday. I'm inclined to agree with the aligations. And i did alot of it with a pulsar at 4x zoom.

I had to get DL recently for doing base and tower sweeps. After getting killed while reloading mid-field. I starting just flicking it on and doing a quick 360 before trying to repair or reload. Sometimes i just flick it on for the fun of it just incase i'm being stocked. It's like if you have DL and a stealther knows you aren't afraid to use it just for kicks. He'll let you go. Cuz it's just not worth it.

Phorcy

2003-06-23, 10:10 PM

Something really needs to be done with this.

I was on vaction for 2 weeks. Came back and it seems everyone under the sun has DL now. Making it nearly impossible to stay alive very long. Starting to get annoying.

Good idea with offering more Implants, as for the sniper bug - really ticks me off to crouch across a battlefield only to be sniped off due to a bug.

Hopefully something comes of this soon.

v/r

CrazyCrazy

2003-06-24, 04:05 PM

I think Darklight should also have a counter implant like Silent Run is to Audio Amplifier. Something like an EM pulser, that drains slightly more stamina than DL, so you would only use it when you see someone with it turned on. I know you can use Jammer grenades, but when you only have one pistol sized slot, you don't really want to always keep a jammer nade in that slot. An implant that has a similar effect as Jammers, but only when it is turned on would be good. Or instead they could give the infil suit 2 pistol slots.
I also think Darklight should have armor penalties that affect range. For example, Standard and infil suits would have the same range as it is now when using darklight vision, Agile would have 75% of the current range, Reinforced would have 50% and MAXes would have 25%. This just makes sense. Those full masks should reduce visibility. Also anyone driving an enclosed-cockpit vehicle shold not be able to turn DL on, and they should have reduced visibility for cloakers as well.

Besides this, the major issue with not being able to see ppl with the DL icon, is that they just "flicker" it, switching it on and off for less than 1 second at a time. It avoids stamina drain, and prevents infils from knowing they are using DL. This is a serious loophole that can be used in other implants, like surge where you can "flicker" to circumvent armor penalties and not lose any stamina in the process. ALL implants should have a 10 second minimum time on. In other words you won't be able to turn off an implant for 10 seconds after you turn it on, or until your stamina drains, this would result in a more conservative and tactical use of implants, and less of this flickering nonsense. BTW, other implants don't suck, DL is just the only the is useful to every armor in almost every situation, that neds to change.