Is it just me, or have the VS gotten better?

[Jaged]

Sience the patch, the VS have been owning us NC everywhere I go. I never had a problem with them before the patch. What is going on? Could they be replacing the TR as one of the two stronger empires? I havent had much of a problem with TR lately.

[ZionsFire]

:stupid:

[ColdbringeR]

Well Vanu did receive a couple well-needed weapon improvements. They "slightly" increased the damage on the Pulsar for one. And they increased the Quasar MAX's ammo clip from 40 to 60, while "slightly" reducing the damage for that weapon in AP mode only.

[Smaug]

Also the pulsar ap rounds fire at the same rate as normal rounds.

[ColdbringeR]

Originally posted by Smaug
Also the pulsar ap rounds fire at the same rate as normal rounds.

Doh! I was gonna say that too! :p

Let me add that the Pulsar damage was only increased for regular rounds as well. Not AP rounds.

[Arakiel]

The Pulsar and the Quasar MAX changes leave both weapons as the worst in their class still, but the gap was narrowed for both.

Why are we doing better? No idea. On Emerald, both TR and VS are getting reamed by NC on a daily basis these days. At one point yesterday VS had zero (yes, zero) bases in the world. A few hours later TR was down to one (yes, one.) NC is remaining fairly dominant throughout this.

[ShortBurst]

VS weapons=lots of lag :(

well on werner we are getting buttkicked by VS and NC :(
seems NC plays early on cet and VS very late, TR is something in between, every morning i go fight NC on VS continents en every evening i fight VS on NC continents :P pretty funny tho :P

[Navaron]

I'm not yelling stealth nerf or anything, but...

The VS have some weapon, it's a full size rifle I believe, that kill me in 2 shots sometimes, and from waaay the hell away. It's not the bd, cause it's full auto. What the hell is it? I'm not bitching, I just want to know what it is. Any clues?

[Navaron]

I'm thinking it's the lancer, what kind of damage does that thing do?

[Robot]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
I'm thinking it's the lancer, what kind of damage does that thing do?

it's the lancer. it can kill an agile armor in two or thee hits, if the hits are dead one. but it's very hard to aim with, and you have a limited ammo supply. it also fires somewhat slowly

[Navaron]

Nah, I'm in reinforced all day long. Drops me in 1 or 2 hits every time. Bug maybe?

[Spider]

Yea probly bug.... or else its a sniper rofl

[Navaron]

No unless there like 10 snipers all shooting at me at once with blue BD's. That thing is evil.

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by Jaged
Is it just me, or have the VS gotten better?

No, the Barnies still suck.

[gonnagetyou]

Most of the VS success boils down to experience. We have a lot of die hard players who have stuck with it over time.

Last night on Markov we took Esamir and then invaded Ishunder in force. Instead of just sitting in bases waiting for the cap most of us kept advancing taking towers and eliminating TR strong points. It was very cool to see everyone working together so well and keeping the pressure on. We took all of the northern bases before the TR were able to regroup and counter attack in force. Those were some great battles with a lot of fighting happening in between bases.

A big thanks to all the TR and Vanu players that made it so fun last night. Ishunder is always a hard nut to crack for the Vanu. TR usually keep it locked down real good.

[BUGGER]

Originally posted by Jaged
Sience the patch, the VS have been owning us NC everywhere I go. I never had a problem with them before the patch. What is going on? Could they be replacing the TR as one of the two stronger empires? I havent had much of a problem with TR lately. You mean last night at Cyssor? Hehheh, u shouldv'e called us TR for help, o wait, we were part of the problem too. Ahh, that was a fun night last night. :nod:


woawoa wait. A nc is cring about vanu being overpowered and cying about NC being weak, am i hearing a NC complain about losing?? Ahh i always watned to hear that, thx Vanu, u made my day!:D

[Seer]

Navaron, that's the lancer--our 'anti vehicle' weapon. It does 40 or 45 HP damage per hit against any infantryman. It's got a 6 round clip that basically means your target is dead if they don't move after getting shot once. Three shots to kill infantryman. Not one, not two, three. It ignores armor almost completely. Having played against the VS on other servers, sometimes the lag makes it seem like you're getting 1SKd, but its really two or three shots back to back.

Caveats: it's very difficult to hit moving target. It aims like a sniper rifle--the cof contracts rapidly, though. The COF is somewhat like an AR so it is not terribly accurate, and you can burn a magazine trying to get three shots in on a moving or distant target. It has a half second or so warm up time before the weapon actually fires after pressing the trigger, so your target has to be stationary or travelling on the same vector for a good length of time. Of course, since it is av, you can't carry many shots.

I've neglected the lancer since the recent lag patches made warping a much more common occurance. Nothing is more frustrating than having your targets warp around while using such a sensitive weapon.

[Streamline]

Well i recently made a move to Markov. Though i'm not saying it's cuz of me. ;)

Felt really good to finally kill with the Pulsar. I think the Gauss still owns it however. And the AV seems to actually help. Since nobody uses the lancer for anything but sniping j/k. Most ppl use it hunt MAXS. And it seems our weapons are intended for more ranged fighting.

Jackhammers and MiniCGs are really hard to beat. But at least it can be done.

Pulsar AV takes 3 full clips to kill a max. Without missing and after reloading twice. Thats alot of time and not very good odds. But if several grunts can gang up on max in the open. It looks like we're on safari bringing down a rhinosaurus. Very entertaining.

[Jaged]

Originally posted by BUGGER33
woawoa wait. A nc is cring about vanu being overpowered and cying about NC being weak, am i hearing a NC complain about losing?? Ahh i always watned to hear that, thx Vanu, u made my day!:D
Ok, first of al, I was not cring. I was not saying that the NC were weak, or the VS were overpowered. (I was, however saying that the TR were weak;)). I was mearly asking why the Vanu had been doing so well lately. Like you, I had never realy been owned by Vanu before. Over the last few days it has been hapening alot. I am not saying nerf the Vanu or upgrade the NC. Im just curious, thats all.

[SumYungGui]

transient ship jumpers. overall TR was the highest populated empire for quite awhile. they get a half-assed 'slap on the wrist' nerf to their MAXes, and everyone jumps ship. not long after they hear that Vanu are getting partially fixed with a weapons boost, so they all hop over to play the flavor of the month. don't worry, the inherant suckitude of vanu will scare them off in a week or two then it'll be same-old same-old vanu asswhooping.

[Robot]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Nah, I'm in reinforced all day long. Drops me in 1 or 2 hits every time. Bug maybe?

no, it can take down reinforced in two or three hits as well, but, as stated, it's rediculously hard to hit with. the reason so many people use it is that it's very, very versatile. (it can change from good AV damage to good AI damage, which is what the vanu weapons are supposed to reflect, i guess)

[Solendon]

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by SumYungGui
blah blah blah...suckitude...blah blah blah

suckitude? That's awsome, I gotta remember that.

[tmartinez72]

Population. Simple numbers. Emerald has the lowest VS pop, and get owned like no other. Emerald is basically a TR v NC world now.

On Markov, it's becoming a TR v VS world. NC had the lowest pop when I checked yestarday 9pm pst (VS38% TR33% NC29%!). It was also the first time I've seen in along time, the little NC logo appeared at the World Server Selection screen for needed Empire.

I think the "Devil Dogs" are driving away some NC. I've talked to a few, and they are complaigning they are running it like a pre-pubescent army. Ordering people around like they are paying for other's accounts. Whatever. Try not to listen to rumors.

[Tryndamere]

That's why people should ignore rumors and hype and just play for fun.

Each empire is more than capable of killing enemies.

[Grunt]

I just seems to me and the VS as a whole seem to have a more mature group of players. Not ALL of them mind you, but a lot. And I think some of us are starting to play this game more tactically in terms of the big picture of the game (winning each day) versus just trying to grab XP.

Sure, capping bases where there's no enemy is boring, but if it's done a lot it really hooks up your race and at some point will take some of the enemy away from a big fight elsewhere.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Seer
Navaron, that's the lancer--our 'anti vehicle' weapon. It does 40 or 45 HP damage per hit against any infantryman. It's got a 6 round clip that basically means your target is dead if they don't move after getting shot once. Three shots to kill infantryman. Not one, not two, three. It ignores armor almost completely. Having played against the VS on other servers, sometimes the lag makes it seem like you're getting 1SKd, but its really two or three shots back to back.

That gun is hella effective against snipers though. I've been in position and fired on a lancer user as he took his first shot on me, we both hit and I decided to stay in place and reload to take him out with my 2nd shot. Before the 2nd shot was available, he'd taken 2 more shots on me and killed me. It reloads and fires pretty quickly to be able to do that.

[Agathon]

Hello,

I agree that they seem to be doing better. Their weapons have always been really deadly if you ask me since they go right through armor practically. All the whiners of course failed to mention that tiny fact when they complained. The Vanu on Emerald did a wonderful job yesterday from my experience by working together and having very skilled players. The added power of their weapons helped only a tiny bit if at all though.

The long range rifle they have is insane, and I agree with the other poster above that standing still you are toast against it with NC weapons. It simply fires way too fast. For the entire game though, all weapons and all players wide, sitting still is asking for a spawn imho. The only time I stand still is when I'm behind cover and required to sit still to heal, revive, or repair someone.

Mosher, my wife does the same thing you do, and you should look me up on Emerald. The group I fight with would love to have you along as a scout. We still value recon as a squad, and snipers are perfect for giving much needed intelligence.

8-)

[Slab]

I think that all the bandwagoners just joined Vanu on other servers because they heard they got lots of upgrades.

Believe it or not, people are THAT shallow.

How did the Vanu, which always had the lowest population size on Markov during prime time and off peak hours, go to being the most populated server?

Doesn't matter to me since I always look for the server where a faction isn't doing well.

[Madcow]

Since the last patch I don't think I've seen Johari with anything but TR being the lowest populated empire. Now I'm wishing they did something other than that crummy 1% experience gain.

[Slab]

The percent loss should be ALOT more if the imbalance is that great.

I've seen it only decrease the exp gain as 2% when the Terrans are down 15%.

It should be the difference between the highest pop/lowest pop.

If the NC have 30, TR have 34, and Vanu have 50.

50-30=20

So the Vanu should take a 20% exp hit.

[Seer]

30+34+50 adds up to 114 percent.... :rolleyes:

[SumYungGui]

it's that new math they're teaching in public schools

[Slab]

I said the population with the highest minus the population with the lowest.

That's some good reading skills you got there, chief.

Perhaps I should provide MORE examples (Population with the highest - the population with the lowest = exp hit)

If the Vanu have 34, terran have 31, and NC have 55:

That's NC (highest pop) 55 MINUS Terran (lowest pop) 31 means:

55 - 31 = 24

Therefore, the NC would take a 24% exp hit.






Still don't get it?



Let's try again:



If the Terrans have 44, NC have 31, and Vanu have 37:

That's Terrans (highest) 44 - NC (lowest) 31:

That's 44 - 31 = 13

So the terrans would take a 13% exp hit.


Please post a response if you still don't understand.

[SumYungGui]

If the NC have 30, TR have 34, and Vanu have 50.

30+34+50=114


If the Vanu have 34, terran have 31, and NC have 55:

34+31+55=120


typo? general over sight? hey it happens. you're still getting bent out of shape over it when it's wrong. the idea behind it is solid, exp penaly/bonus percentage does need to be beefed up to give it some more bite. the numbers you're providing are still wrong though.

[Navaron]

Maybe he mean's at a base or a continet?

[Slab]

Ok.

Now this is getting scary.

Who said anything about addition when I said the DIFFERENCE between the faction with the HIGHEST population and the one with the LOWEST?

The word "difference" denotes substraction.

For example, if the server's population is at:

Vanu: 50
NC: 30
TR: 40

You take the Vanu(50) and subtract the NC(30) to find the difference which is 20.

50 - 30 = 20

With 20 being the answer, the Vanu should take a 20% exp hit.

For the love of God, where are you getting blah + blah = higher number?

[Seer]

Because, chief, the numbers that comprise the server population are not arbitrary units; they are percentages. Therefore, they must add up to 100.

[Slab]

Yes, I know that but that doesn't have anything to do with the calculations I proposed, does it?

This has nothing to do with 33% + 33% + 33% =99.9% server population.

I'm just using a simple calculation using the figures of the population at the moment and it would make things a little more fair with that algorithm.

This has NOTHING to do with server's population equaling 100%, my friend.

IE:

If faction A has 50% population, faction B has 40% population, and faction C has 35% population. .. A fair way for the exp penality should be difference between the greatest and least. In this case, 50 - 35 = 15 so Faction A should take a 15% exp hit.

Heh. I feel like I'm giving out a SAT exam.

[Seer]

They're already addressing the modifiers associated with population imbalances over to maximum health benefits for underpopulated empires. The system is changing. I would wait to see how that pans out before proposing modifications to the current system.

Nevertheless, if you know that the numbers are percentages, why do you keep posting numbers that add up to over 100 percent? The reason this is crucial is because you are proposing modifications that use these percentages to determine new variables. I see it as crucial that your examples mimic how it would work in game, and as long as you're using wacky numbers, they don't. I think that would be obvious.

[Slab]

This has nothing to do with the server's population equaling 100%.

I already stated that. You're looking too much into percentages when I'm just using simple addition and subtraction.

Remove the idea that the server's population size must equal 100%.

At your charactor selection screen, it tells you at the bottom how much each faction has:

Vanu: 25
TR: 40
NC: 35

You take the highest (40 Terran) subtract the lowest (25 Vanu) and come up with 15.

Why? Because 40 - 25 = 15.

So, just make it that the TR take a 15% exp hit.

Let's use more realistic numbers then.

Vanu: 31
TR: 35
NC: 33

TR (35) - Vanu (31) = 4

So, TR should take a 4% exp hit.

Oy, ve.

[SumYungGui]

wtf? how can you remove the idea that the server population equals 100%? no matter how many people are online, 100% of them are going to be on a team. you cannot have more than 100% of the total population online at any given time on, because it will still be 100%. you just cannot do it. mathematics dude, you cannot do it.


P.S. no really, you cannot do it

[Hertston]

wrong thread.. sorry..:rolleyes:

[Slab]

"wtf? how can you remove the idea that the server population equals 100%? no matter how many people are online, 100% of them are going to be on a team. you cannot have more than 100% of the total population online at any given time on, because it will still be 100%. you just cannot do it. mathematics dude, you cannot do it."

I'm not going to bother with this topic anymore because you can't grasp a very simple idea.

I explained it very easily and several people have sent me private messages asking why you 2 don't understand my idea.

I've placed it out step by step and it has nothing to do with the word "percent."

I'm going to give you 1 more go at it. I'm going to remove the word and symbol of "percent."

At your charactor selection screen, near the bottom, you'll notice it says, for example:

Vanu: 30
Terran: 40
NC: 20

The current algorithm would be as follows:

(Faction with highest pop) - (Faction with lowest pop) = (exp loss for faction with highest pop)

In this case: 40 - 20 = 20

This means: Terrans should have a 20 exp loss



This really can't be that hard. I mean, I forwarded this post to people that don't play Planetside at all and they could understand my point in a second.

Now, I may not be a math major but you don't have to be to understand 2nd grade addition/subtraction.

Even if you did, one of the guys that read the article is a computer programmer at MIT.

[Slab]

It's not that I can't do math, it's that you can't read and understand what I'm saying.

In my previous posts, I even GAVE an example where the server population equaled 100%

Reading, you cannot do it.

PS: Seriously. You can't do it.

[Nostrom25]

lol

i can't believe this idea took up 1 whole page when i can understand what slab is saying in the first post. omg the only thing he didn't do is actually call you on the phone to have you come over and draw it out on a piece of paper for you. you are looking too deep into it. just do exactly what he said from the toon selection screen and it works out.

let's give everyone else a try at it

vanu = 27
tr = 33
nc = 40

= 100

now highest minus lowest


40 - 27 = 13

nc take 13 percent exp loss


god

[Deckhead]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Nah, I'm in reinforced all day long. Drops me in 1 or 2 hits every time. Bug maybe?


Same thing happens to me. I wear Reinforced all day and they seem to drop me in 2 shots. the first takes my health down to like 35

Deck

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Deckhead
Same thing happens to me. I wear Reinforced all day and they seem to drop me in 2 shots. the first takes my health down to like 35

Deck

Sounds like you're getting hit by a sniper with a bolt driver first, that drops you to 35.

[Tryndamere]

How the hell did people not understand the simple concept Slab was suggesting?

If you're under 6 years old, you have an excuse... if not...:rolleyes:

[Slab]

Thank you.

2 people that can grasp that simple idea.

The best part of the whole post that the other 2 were suggesting that I was a moron.

[Seer]

Neither of us said, at any point, that we didn't understand the concept of what Slab said. We merely took exception to his faulty math.

I see you guys fell for his straw man--hook, line, and sinker.

[Slab]

What's really great was that I already mentioned to toss away the idea that the server population should all equal 100%

Those three numbers where just random numbers I chose.

"If the NC have 30, TR have 34, and Vanu have 50."

This was just an EXAMPLE.

I could have used:

50+30+20

1,038+3,384+1,384

.48+.14+.38

What YOU don't get is that:

I already said not take the the server's population but to just use the formula I provided. Just the formula. FORMULA.

[SmilingBandit]

So then, using your numbers "1,038 TR+3,384 NC+1,384 VS", the NC should take a 2,346 xp hit for every kill, hack and save?

What would you do if the numbers were 1000 TR, 4000 NC and 3900VS?

By your answer the NC would take a 3000 xp hit. While the VS, nearly as overmaned as the NC would bank full xp.

[SmilingBandit]

Oh yeah, and slab, take it easy man.

All of your original numbers were near 100. Given that the current system is based off of percentages, it was not to far of a logical leap to presume that you were trying to describe a similarly based system.

[Slab]

"So then, using your numbers "1,038 TR+3,384 NC+1,384 VS", the NC should take a 2,346 xp hit for every kill, hack and save?"

No.

This was just an example to illustrate that the numbers didn't need to add to 100 in the first place to project my idea forward.


"All of your original numbers were near 100. Given that the current system is based off of percentages, it was not to far of a logical leap to presume that you were trying to describe a similarly based system."

Indeed.

However, I have seen at times on Markov, that the Vanu were up by over 14% yet they have a 1% exp loss.

So, it's not QUITE there yet. ;)

PS: Thanks for a reply without a condescending attitude.

[Seer]

Don't you think the fact that your illustrative example returned bogus exp modifiers is proof that you can't use random numbers?

[Slab]

Aye, it does.

That wasn't the idea I was pushing forward in the first place. My first post was to project this idea with or without the numbers.

I purposely used numbers that didn't add up to 100 because numbers with a greater difference would project a resulting answer with a greater curve.


(Faction with highest pop) - (Faction with lowest pop) = percent that should be a exp penality for the (Faction with highest pop)

I just randomly plugged in numbers that were around what might be realistic.

But Jesus Christ on a popsicle stick; the first post was designed to project the formula so you can add whatever you want, not to nitpick about stupid numbers.

And on top of that, after I issued numbers that DO add up to 100, you're still bringing the fact that the original numbers don't add up.

SmilingBandit got it by saying Sony is close when it comes to exp penalities but in my response to him, I showed how Sony is close but not on target.

Using numbers that don't add up to 100 further helps illustrate that point.

Though I doubt that constructive input was on your mind when you responded so this thread really doesn't matter to me anymore.

[SumYungGui]

I fully understand your idea, and I have from the very first message you left here as regards your idea. you want exp penalty/bonus % increased, expressed as the lowest factions percentage subtracted from the highest factions percentage with the resulting number being applied negatively to the higher population faction and applied positively to the lower population faction. nowhere in my messages did I say I do not understand that, and in fact I said:

the idea behind it is solid, exp penaly/bonus percentage does need to be beefed up to give it some more bite.

throwing around insults claiming that I do not unerstand your idea still does not change that fact that you cannot have more than 100% of the population online.

[Slab]

No shit, dude.

But what I was saying was "Who the fuck cares since it has nothing to do with my formula?"

Those numbers in my first post where it didn't add up to 100? You see those? They were just random numbers. Besides, even when I did make them add up to 100, you still kept complaining.

How about this? I should have used letters instead.

A - B = C

A: Faction with the largest population
B: Faction with the least population
C: Exp penality A should have.


And guy, you were the first one to throw around insults whereas I have not. I know that you understand it but by now, I'm sure you want to have some response that bestows you the title of someone that won the argument. Keep reaching for the end of that rainbow.

As for me, this post is already overextended by about 2 pages so I'm going to let it die.

If you want to keep replying and thinking you're right, even after I said the numbers didn't mean anything, more power to you.

As for me, this thread is officially dead.

[SumYungGui]

I'll admit there was a point or two where my responses became brusque, but I honestly challenge you to find somewhere in this thread where I flat out insulted you. then I further challenge you to show me where I flat out insulted you prior to your having done so.

I've always agreed with what you said, the current population incentives suck wind. I think I once saw as much as 45% population on the Terran Regime empire, and I believe they had a -3% exp penalty. that's not an incentive, that's a joke. seems the devs have agreed with both you and I, but they're going to do life bonuses rather than exp bonuses. (seriously, who give a flying **** about a few extra % exp when you're getting 50 or so per soldier?)

the only part of your post I've ever attacked was your choice of numbers that exceed the 100% total. that's it, only ever those numbers.