People need to focus on all the weapons, not jsut one

[1024]

I hear people talking about how the jackhammer kills infantry in about 2 shots up close(who hasen't), but have they noticed that the lancer has the same ability?

The lancer can kill infantry up close in about 2 or 3 shots, just like the jackhammer. Why are they only whining about the jackhammer, when the lancer has the same "problem"?

[Hamma]

hehe all the recent talk about the JH created this thread:

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum8/HTML/002705.html
We appreciate feedback from our community and take it very seriously. However, even the range of human opinion has its limits. We have heard the Jackhammer feedback and the issue is under evaluation right along with continual weapon balance in general. I am making a formal request of the community to trust us in having heard your opinions and taking them into consideration.
However, the subject of the Jackhammer is way out of hand. Can we cut down on these threads so that other feedback has the chance to stay in the early pages of the forum? I have no problem with somebody starting an official Jackhammer thread, but excessive posts on the subject will be locked from here on out.

Nothing I have said here implies any action or inaction on the subject. Only that we hear you and we'd like to see other topics get their fair representation as well.

Victor Wachter
Community Relations Representative
Many questions can be answered by reading the PlanetSide Game Info and FAQ

[Bottleneck]

The lancer has a much longer delay on firing and isnt "point in general direction...shoot" type weapon, you actually have to aim. As it stands jackhammer is so seriously overbalancing the battlefield people are deleting there vanu/terran toons to make NC shottie clones. This of course is leading to the up to 10% penalties for NC players across the servers (wich really needs upped, 10% big woop). Frankly whenever I come across a really hot spot battle with NC involved I put on a set of reinforced clear my inv and just go mass loot nc corpses, I have a locker full of jackhammers now so I dont care :)

[Drunken Chicken]

If you read the official forums, you'd think that the average PS player has an intelligence somewhere between dashboard grime and the stuff that grows in my tub.

[1024]

Originally posted by Bottleneck
The lancer has a much longer delay on firing and isnt "point in general direction...shoot" type weapon, you actually have to aim. As it stands jackhammer is so seriously overbalancing the battlefield people are deleting there vanu/terran toons to make NC shottie clones. This of course is leading to the up to 10% penalties for NC players across the servers (wich really needs upped, 10% big woop). Frankly whenever I come across a really hot spot battle with NC involved I put on a set of reinforced clear my inv and just go mass loot nc corpses, I have a locker full of jackhammers now so I dont care :)

Thats becuase the jackhammer is a shotgun. It's supposed to be a general-direction-fire-hit, weapon. This is one of teh strong points of the NC, which was intened from the start. The lancer may require more aim, but at least you deal the same amount of damge if you're trying to hit someone 10 meters in front of you with it, where as the jackhammer you have to get up in somoen'sface to deal maximum damge. This is also a concept with other weapons also, liek an infiltrator using an AMP, who awants to get up close so even when his COF gets big, hes still hitting his target, no matter waht.

Originally posted by Drunken Chicken
If you read the official forums, you'd think that the average PS player has an intelligence somewhere between dashboard grime and the stuff that grows in my tub.

This is frightenly true. A lot of peopel just get mad and go on a flaming frenzy, without even think about the alternitives... :rolleyes:

[JakeLogan]

Well the reason no one complains about the lancer is becasue it takes some skill to aim. While the jackhammer is a point and shoot. its the fact that 9 out of 10 NC have them thats what makes it annoying. The other reason is because in comparison the other Heavy assault weapons really suck. Thats the main reason you get so many complaints about the jackhammer.

Now I get the fact that the JH does that its just that the other HA weapons don't really have there own area where they do best. The chain gun you also have to get in there face but when you do get in there face the 4 NC carrying jackhammers get you.

[1024]

Originally posted by 1024
Thats becuase the jackhammer is a shotgun. It's supposed to be a general-direction-fire-hit, weapon.

...

The lancer may require more aim, but at least you deal the same amount of damge if you're trying to hit someone 10 meters in front of you with it, where as the jackhammer you have to get up in somoen's face to deal maximum damge.

^^^^^ Did you not read this??? ^^^^^

[negate]

The lancer can kill infantry up close in about 2 or 3 shots, just like the jackhammer. Why are they only whining about the jackhammer, when the lancer has the same "problem"?

You obviously never played Vanu side lol.

[Masurao]

In the JH's defense most of the kills are from people that run through base tunnels without stoping to see what's goinging on.

I sat in an alcove and killed 20 somthing people that kept running by me. Never even took a hit :D

The JH is easy to use. The lancer and the sweeper are not and besides they are not shotguns. DEV's should bring stuff up instead of nurfing them.

[MilitantB0B]

You know whats going to happed? The jackhammer is curretnly geared for indoor combat. It is excellent indoors and down right uselesss outdoors. The reason it is so annoying is because all the important fighting takes place indoors. Whats going to happen is, the devs are going to nerf the JH making it good indoors instead of excellent. Then they are going to implement changes that make outdoor fighting alot more prominent and important (like they said they would). Then the Jackhammer is going to be a bad waste of 4 cert points because it will be good indoors and terrible outdoors, in a time when outdoor fighting is much more important. Mark my words. ;)

[HawkEye]

omg nother freaking JH thread. do u guys not get it. a tri-barreled auto shotty is gonna kick ur ass if ur on recieving end, especially when ur really close, it is supposed to do alot of damage, and if goes with the NC waepons philophy, there waepons deal out greater damage. so stop complaining and all u non NC's that complain bout JH can cert in Heavy assult and loot a jackhammer and then u couold use it and get a lot of kills. SO STFU and stop complaining about jackhammer.

[negate]

^^ lol looks like someone is getting upset they might have to aim soon :(

[SumYungGui]

ok, lets focus on all the weapons and not just one. done yet? so when are vanu going to get fixed?:D

[Revolver]

Originally posted by negate
^^ lol looks like something is getting upset they might have to aim soon :( and so the flaming begins *sigh*

[Ceiba]

Have you ever tried to shoot someone up close with a lancer? When I tried that cert I killed more friendlies than anything else. Anyone who can hit thier target with it is very skilled in my book. And the JH, Spork already said they are taking a look at it. I just wish the Vanu HA cert was cloe to being as good as the JH.

[HawkEye]

the lasher does pretty good up close. i have had my JH out and been killed by a lasher. sometimes i lag lil but most of the time i did. the rate of fire the lasher has kicks ass up close also IMO. but over distance is when the lasher is weak.

[Searo]

I've never used a JH. It's obviously not overpowered, look at my kills without touching one.

[Searo]

[Double post, why can't we use delete?]

[1024]

Originally posted by Searo
I've never used a JH. It's obviously not overpowered, look at my kills without touching one.

Ummm...sorry to break it to you, but those kills aint that good....22 kills by BR 6??? i mean, c'mon, man....

Originally posted by HawkEye
omg nother freaking JH thread. do u guys not get it. a tri-barreled auto shotty is gonna kick ur ass if ur on recieving end, especially when ur really close, it is supposed to do alot of damage, and if goes with the NC waepons philophy, there waepons deal out greater damage. so stop complaining and all u non NC's that complain bout JH can cert in Heavy assult and loot a jackhammer and then u couold use it and get a lot of kills. SO STFU and stop complaining about jackhammer.

Did you look at waht the post was about? Have you looked at how many psots i have? Do you think im a n00b after looking at that number? Did you even look at that im pointy out a very pointy point that has never been pointed out before?????


SO YOU STFU

[Deveral]

I have used every weapon out there. All three of the HA guns have their advantages and disadvantages. To me, the lasher has the longest effective range with the mini-chain gun close behind. Jackhammers effective range is the closest but the most deadly at that range. The lasher's rate of fire is insane and the tails hit and do a little damage still. Easier to use imho in long range battles and has the smallest CoF of them all, also owns indoors. The mini-chaingun I see a lot among TR now, along with the striker. Damage isn't much if you are hit with 1 or 2 bullets but the bullets still travel farther than pellets which gives it more range than a jackhammer. The RoF is the most, haven't seen it do the best indoors. The jackhammer has the 2nd worst CoF but its a shotgun and who pays attention to a shotgun's CoF. SHOTGUNS are meant to own close and indoors, why do other sides use the sweeper so much indoors? Can you kill a person that has a sweeper with a pulsar or gauss before he kills you at close range? Why not? BECAUSE its a shotgun. Its like complaining that NC AI MAX's own up close. I get killed in my AI max all the time because my longer range shotgun settings dont do enough to striker users and that shield only blocks 1 missile. But I dont complain about the striker because its meant to kill vehicles and MAXs. The lancer is extremely hard to aim and fire at moving targets. I have only found use for it when picking off people that are standing still with low HP. By the way, with the talk of the JH requiring no skill, when will the rocklet gun users and thumper people come up? Probably because its common pool. Why havent the cycler users come up? Probably because no one plays TR nearly as much, atleast on Markov. I think complaining about a weapon such as the jackhammer just because its used too much is complete and total BS! The Magrider is used a lot among VS just as a battering ram which tanks arent made to do. TR loves anchoring MAX's in CC's, where is the complaining there? TR MAX's are made to do that just like VS MAX's are made to jump over walls. I may hate it and think its cheap.When I get in my AI NC MAX and use that shield while charging into a base with 3 other NC MAX's and wipe the floor with enemy infantry and clear out CC's and all of that good close range combat, I see balance or close to it. I can see that the Lancer should be more of a AI weapon and not considered AV but I guess the way the weapon works reflects how the VS are flexible and mobile. The only weapon I could have beef with is the Pulsar at this moment because its a little deadly at long ranges but that is about it. And please don't complain about weapons and if you do, dont sound like a 2 year old. Post them some place where people can do something about it.

[Vick]

I joined the NC for a reason, it was one of the two "underpowered" empires. I would be vanu, but purple and teal????

So now TR was supposedly "NERFED OUT OF THE GAME OMFG" as one poster put it, and the NC is now "omfgsuperrooxxer jackhammeragogogogo". I have put alot of thought onto it, and I think it might be just a little to good. Just needs a slight tweak, make the CoF wider at close range, but a little more constant moving out. Unrealistic, but I think it would work.

Personally I dont think anything is overpowered as far as empire specific things go, which is all anyone cares about sence it helps them win and such. But I see some balance issues overall. Like:

1. Reaver has to much armor, rockets splash to much.

2. The lightning has no armor at all, it needs to take more then a single striker clip, and more then 2 decimators.

3. The skyguard is ugly, it needs a serious boost. All the colors are to light.

4. My outfit logo flickers on my Lightning, THIS IS A SERIOUS BALANCE ISSUE THAT MUST BE FIXED.

5. Getting run over really sucks. Especialy when it is done by a certain hover-tank.

[sakuc]

Both Lasher and Jackhammer are lethal in short range, lasher has additional advantage of having higher dmg over range if you get a hit.

Lasher also has higher rate of fire, im sorry but thats a fact.

When i get nutty 'i run down 5 people with jackhammer' its usually me jumping on two guys, so they die, like with about any weapon, since if you get jumped -> you will most likely die, even from stabber, and rest 3 guys i kill i either get jump on (again) or they are wounded from previous fights so they are dead, only the weapon i happen to use at the time is jackhammer.

I get these kinda lucky runs with gauss too, its just mass hysteria complaining about the jackhammer, but then again if they nerf it ill just sell the cert, and get scattercannon MAX for one point less ;)

To add emphasis to the point, if i run into headlong battle with cycler user who can aim, i usually have about 10-30 health left, this is relatively short range, yet again, if i get jump on i usually take 10-20 damage.

Versus lasher users, if we both know we are there (no surprises on either side) its 50% 50% fight, i'm usually on losing side if there is a bit range in the middle usually, lasher damage over range is far superior imho, and if alasher user gets a jump on me i'm dead meat 'cause rate of fire and few hits kills reinforced, this is assuming im full health.

For me it usually takes about 3 shots to kill reinf user at about 20m with jackhammer, about the same as sweeper, nicer thing in jackhammer is the bigger clip, only times i use secondary fire is when i walk behind sniper and unload 3 barrels for that instakill or look for infils when my dl is down (it fires all over).

When you use tripleshot you trade off alot of damage compared to 3 normal shots, yes, it does less damage than 3 normal shots believe it or not.

Now, i dunno about mini chaingun, i've looted it occasionally and didnt have any problems killing people, of course i used it as jackhammer ie, short range brute assault weapon and got nice results with it, but considering how good cycler is at short range battles and alot better on longer range.... meh, i dunno, some terran wanna elaborate on it?

Do i get kills alot with jackhammer? Yeah, given right conditions, usually requires to have my surge on so i can control the movement, especially on open ground.

Is it murder when camping spawn tubes? Yeah. But so is the damn supressor too. Or any MAX.

I think some of the whining stems from the fact the other two Heavy Assault certs does not fit to the whiners style of play, hence thinking its 'overpowered' when they cannot adjust MCG or Lasher to their style of play.

I mean, i killed reinf-lasher user with spawn gear once with my shotty pistol, of course that only means the guy using the lasher had poor FPS or couldn't aim.

I think ladies and gentlemen there is alot of FUD going on!

[kidriot]

how bout shifting the focus from weapons to the actual game itself.

there needs to be some sort of incentive to hold a base. or terrain, or something

fun can be derived from the same action only so many times.

[Arakiel]

Originally posted by Ceiba
Have you ever tried to shoot someone up close with a lancer? When I tried that cert I killed more friendlies than anything else. Anyone who can hit thier target with it is very skilled in my book.

Word.

One of the things that I haven't really ever seen addressed in a JH discussion is that the cone of fire on a jackhammer is pretty much irrelevant. That's the other side to the "it's a shotgun" argument - since there is no single shot to go astray, the cone of fire is for the most part a nonissue. Notice that you get fairly identical accuracy (assuming you have quick aim) when surging around and when standing.

[Arakiel]

Originally posted by sakuc

Lasher also has higher rate of fire, im sorry but thats a fact.


So does the suppresor. That doesn't make it a better weapon. The jackhammer is almost a hitscan weapon, whereas the lasher's projectiles are so slow that you can easily, easily dodge them.

(..and that doesn't even touch on the less potential damage per second on the lasher.)

[sakuc]

Lashers floaty orbs are boon and bane, indoors they make nice walls of pain, where you can strafe out or strafe into, atleast in werner in VS they have alot of people who know how to use lasher, so when i'm dueling with lasher user indoors and neither of us has no elemnt of surprise its about 50/50 who will win.

Of course i'll win if the poor bastard can't aim but anyway.. thats besides the point now is it ;)

[Zentenk VA]

Yeup.... When I'm indoors the jackhammer is good for 1 person at a time. If I'm fighting Vanu and i find a lasher I kill way more people. I've taken down 6 Vanu running down a hallway cause they cant dodge lasher there, jackhammer would take about 2 before they got me. It takes 3 direct hits to kill someone with lasher and 3 with jackhammer (if close) in reinforced armor. If the jackhammer is so powerful how come i've killed so many vanu/tr that weilded them? I thought they were just point in general dir. and shoot? One other problem we have is Reload, i've died so many times cause i had to reload when i have the chaingun i can take 3 people w/o reloading... just gotta know how to use your weapon.

Also the Pulsar is a very formidable weapon now. I shot my friend 5 times and he had 45 health left, i shot him 5 times with gauss he had 40 health left. And it pretty much stayed like this through my "test". One other thing is the Pulsar has better accuracy, more ammo per clip so no down time. AND IT CAN SWITCH ROUND MODES W/ A PUSH OF A BUTTON (well so do all but i mean if you were holding the gun all you had to do was push a button, or flip a switch). The Cycler is also great... I use the Supressor over the Gauss because i can hit more and i kill more people with it, has same clip size but the thing is more accurate. I don't know how many times I've shot with the gauss and my first shot miss and give me away, it really sucks. I used the Pulsar before its "upgrade" and I enjoyed it more than the Gauss. It used to really suck then they put it where it was SUPPOSED TO BE. But now its even better... and how many pulsars do I see? So lets not go to where the "everyone has the JH" cause there just isnt a lot of weapons in PS... I think they are coming out with more, so maybe that will help.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by HawkEye
omg nother freaking JH thread. do u guys not get it. a tri-barreled auto shotty is gonna kick ur ass if ur on recieving end, especially when ur really close, it is supposed to do alot of damage, and if goes with the NC waepons philophy, there waepons deal out greater damage. so stop complaining and all u non NC's that complain bout JH can cert in Heavy assult and loot a jackhammer and then u couold use it and get a lot of kills. SO STFU and stop complaining about jackhammer.

Is it possible to stop cutting and pasting this really ignorant response?

[SumYungGui]

I dunno if the lasher needs a speed boost on it's orbs or not, and right now nobody can possibly tell either because the weapon is not performing as designed. the lashes that come off of the orb are entirely too buggy to be seriously evaluated.

[sakuc]

i've noticed most avid whiners of the shotgun type weapons are the guys who have been only in receiving end of the weapon, and never tried it themselves.

I mean, sweeper kills reinforced in 3 hits too, should it be nerfed also?

Hell lets nuke all the shotguns while we at it. Or maybe you could get base assault with sweeper in backpack, trust me, you have equal chance of taking jackhammer user down with sweeper than he has chances of taking you down with jackhammer.

When i played vanu alot i always had sweeper for indoor assaults on my lancer config.. why? 'cause its good in short range battles..

Common pool weapons are out there. Use them. Incidentally 3 of the common pool weapons are great for base fighting, namely Rocklet, Thumper and Sweeper. Rocklet can also kill MAXes too.

Imagine that. ;)

And for people complaining why NC gets the 'best' hvy assault weapon, well thats the faction uniqueness for you, i mean vanu has sniper AV weapon and TR has their nifty locking missiles and warm and fuzzy pounder MAX whish is sheer evilness in base.

Oh btw, nerf whiners. :)

[BLuE_ZeRO]

I don't know if anyone has said it and frankly I'm too lazy to read through all of these posts because they're pretty redundant but... has anyone seen how much damage that damn jackhammer does at long range? We were screwing around last night and one of our guys was at 70m and the jackhammer was doing substantial damage on the target (WITH ONE SHOT!). Seriously... it's a damn shotgun not a rifle. There isn't any reason why it should do that much damage. It's almost like the thing has a smaller spread than a rifle. They don't need to reduce damage a whole bunch but they need to keep in mind that the weapon is still a shotgun. Nerf the effective distance of it or return our mini chaingun to it's former beta glory. NC will be able to snipe with the damn JH if this keeps up.