TR's fine, you just suck.

[Navaron]

Simple as that. We're massively outnumbered on Emerald, and our leaders don't understand any concepts higher than zerg, yet we still manage to do decent. The TR forces are about 85% zombies who sprint from point A to point B, die, and respawn. The so called leaders and cr4 and 5 guys, don't know leadership from a hole in the ground. Despite having enemies with nigh defenceble weapons (The Lancer is lame and you know it), the TR still manages to have a presence. This in itself is amazing.

The fact is, TR is fine, even if underpopulated. The problem lies within the leadership. As far as I know, there aren't any great battle plans or massive coordinations going on. Every now and then, some schmuck will come on and say, "Umm, Gunuku kinda needs an ant, so if you're not doing anything, could you drive one by?" - which is NOT fucking leading.

Don't give me crap about weapon nerfs either. I was dropping 8 vanu to my 1 death all night tonight as we got stomped backwards.

The whole point of this is: If you're a TR leader, get your head out of your ass. Start leading. If you don't know how, go watch ANY fucking war movie, listen to CDL transcripts of squad talk, watch any of these tutorials out there. Your job isn't to ask people to do things, it's to get stuff done. So do it.

This has been a paid broadcast of the Navarone bitching system. This channel and it's advertisers do not neccessarily support or condone the actions of Navarone. This concludes our regularly scheduled broadcast day. Thank you, and God Bless America.

[Happy lil Elf]

Simple as that. We're massively outnumbered on Emerald, and our leaders don't understand any concepts higher than zerg, yet we still manage to do decent. The TR forces are about 85% zombies who sprint from point A to point B, die, and respawn. The so called leaders and cr4 and 5 guys, don't know leadership from a hole in the ground. Despite having enemies with nigh defenceble weapons (The Lancer is lame and you know it), the TR still manages to have a presence. This in itself is amazing.


Replace TR with NC or VS and guess what? It's the same thing.

Oh wait, the NC has the Jackhammer and VS has the lancer. But TR sure doesn't have any good weapons :rolleyes:

[Seer]

Hey, what do you know! The tr are massively outnumbered atm. I think it is a temporary thing, but if it isn't, welcome to long nights of barely clinging to your sanc continents. Maybe I'll get to fulfill my fantasy of pwning you guys on Forseral like you did to us at Amerish. ;)

[HawkEye]

i play on markov as NC and when im in a squad i will ask peeps there BR. theres 1 or 2 peeps that have a low one but say they used to play TR and did not like. theres a lot of TR chainging empires.

[MJBuddy]

im happy he said it, because when i say it all i hear are "no, we just got nerfed and now jackhammers destroy all our maxs"

[ghost018]

Originally posted by MJBuddy
im happy he said it, because when i say it all i hear are "no, we just got nerfed and now jackhammers destroy all our maxs"

Strange, because I've never heard that....

Personally, I could care less if your Jackhammer can kill in 2 to 4 shots. After all, it takes 4 certification points for Heavy Assault. Only thing I'd like to see is the MiniChaingun receive some sort of Cone of Fire improvement. That thing's useless if you hold fire down any longer than a second.

[Arakiel]

I read your post twice and I still don't understand if you're implying in the title that the 2 other empires suck or that the TR players suck.

[Fuzzymath]

I dono, the TR on some servers are pulling it together. I mean tonight, we managed to lock down our backyards. Then push in and lock down Amerish and solsar. Thanks to the help of the two CR5's (Demigod, Crab) leading us to victory.

Now, The TR CG not nurfed...Witch was ok I guess, but then the Jackhammer got upped. To a power level BEYOND that of the Chain-gun BEFORE its Nerf. That sort of sucked...but I'm starting to agree with what a few people I've talked to That have suggested not to Nerf the Jackhammer. Just make the Chain-gun equally strong =P Nerfing is evil, over powering on the other hand, is not.

As for that bit "no, we just got nerfed and now jackhammers destroy all our max's". This is just a merry go round. Back in the beta the NC where complaining about the TR's gun. So it got nerfed. Then our Maxs..*poof*..NURF!. Now, they want our striker? And when we go to make a fuss, we get flamed? (SEE; The official PS forum =/) I mean, you can kill our max's with ease, but you all get all up set when we ask to do the same to yours? That just seems messed up to me...

Also, the TR are no longer a 'Chain-gun fraction'. In fact, very few people use it now. The few that do use it, mainly have the cert to use stolen Jackhammers. The Chain-gun is hardly worth 4 certs now. Its worth about 3 certs, seeing at this point it's just as strong as the NC jackhammer was back in the beta. (I also think the jackhammer should have been 3 certs back then as well =P)

Anyway, I say just make it all insanely strong and over powered. Then have some fun with it...

[Hertston]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
The so called leaders and cr4 and 5 guys, don't know leadership from a hole in the ground.


Hehe... that's pretty much the same everywhere, isn't it ? :eek:

[Fuzzymath]

You've never faced 'luci' (NC, Konried) and his army from hell...Damn hes annoying.

[12tontuna]

I've fought with Luci on Konried, and proud to say so.

However, on that server...even WITH the jackhammer the NC are not the all pervasively powerful force persons would have you believe they are.

In fact, I left there to go back to Emerald to play the VS. Now I question my own sanity.:D

[Malodorous]

Well, the issue of the Whackhammer has been beaten to death here and elsewhere. It is an obnoxious weapon. I do feel strongly that this one weapon has accounted almost entirely for the migration of TR players to the NC. Sure it is 4 cert points, but (just guessing here) easily half the NC have that cert. Why? Because the gun is incredibly overpowered and badly in need of a nerf.

But the quality of players is pretty much universal. You will not sell me on any concept that dictates the players on NC or VS are, for whatever reason, better. The TR are operating from a distinct disadvantage in terms of weapons, which has lead directly to a loss of strength in numbers, which further contributes to less success and more migration away from TR....a vicious cycle.

At the current state of affairs regarding weapon strengths and populations, I don't see how Sony can hope to maintain the third Empire permanently. People are flocking away from TR in droves, and it has nothing to do with leadership. I have played all three empires, and the amount of deadwood CR3-5's is pretty much the same everywhere.

The reasons the TR continue to lose so badly is the massive underpowering of their weapons, and the obnoxious outnumbering they are subject to.

Since I am here on this rant....on Emerald, I have had the fortune to play with a number of really outstanding Squad Leaders. Props especially to Dihnekis and Kessdawg. I have seen both of them take an understrength squad into Little Big Horn, and come out winners.

[Sputty]

Nicely put Nav

[Trencher]

I do NOT get the whole "our weapons suck" thing. The Cycler is awesome. The MCG is awesome. The Repeater is awesome. The Striker is awesome!

I still find it amazingly ironic that the TR all think the MCG sucks but most of the Heavy Assault people in my NC outfit and many of the outfits we hang around collect them and enjoy the hell out of them. I use Cyclers quite a lot myself.

I think the main problem is that people want all weapons to be the same - a MCG does not function like a JH but that doesn't mean it sucks... you just need to learn how to use it. The JH is more of a no brainer weapon than the MCG or the Lasher - you just get in someone's face and pull the trigger... with the MCG you have to be accurate and you have to lead but the rate of fire and the damage that thing outputs is insane.

[Sputty]

Originally posted by Trencher
I do NOT get the whole "our weapons suck" thing. The Cycler is awesome. The MCG is awesome. The Repeater is awesome. The Striker is awesome!

I still find it amazingly ironic that the TR all think the MCG sucks but most of the Heavy Assault people in my NC outfit and many of the outfits we hang around collect them and enjoy the hell out of them. I use Cyclers quite a lot myself.

I think the main problem is that people want all weapons to be the same - a MCG does not function like a JH but that doesn't mean it sucks... you just need to learn how to use it. The JH is more of a no brainer weapon than the MCG or the Lasher - you just get in someone's face and pull the trigger... with the MCG you have to be accurate and you have to lead but the rate of fire and the damage that thing outputs is insane.

I know how to use the MCG. It still sucks. Heh, I've used all the HA weapons and the JHer is so far above the MCG and Lasher it's funny. The MCG has an effective range or 10M at most and the Lasher can be dodged easily. Jackhammer has too much range considering it's a shotgun designed for up close damage and it continues to be effective at 20M and a bit higher.

[Tobias]

alright, I have not played to much, was gone for a while and did not have time, but I got in the game the other day, found I sucked with the bolt driver so I grabbed a lancer. Got in a squad with some other vanu and we started taking bases from TR....there where no TR at mosta the bases we took, aside of course from the rare cloaker or reaver.

well we go to one base and prepare to take it, we ice the two max's in the courtyard and proced to fan out and take out anyone else in the area. We are feelin pretty bad. Then I see some terran named Terrik's name in the little window followed bt a cycler and one of my squad mates name. Well, we would find and kill this guy, he got lucky. I am still looking for him when it seems he ices two of my squadmates in about 4 secs. I rush to where they where...and he kills me. He contuines to basically kill everyone in my squad a number of times dieing maybe three or four times. there were 9 of us and three terrans, and boy I can say we got our ass's handed to us for the better part of an hour by that terrik guy. We started to gain some wierd fear of him. He was like a god. We could not kill him, and he could take down any three of us it seemed with great ease.

The terrans dont seem to have the numbers I would have expected, but boy some of them kick ass.

[Sputty]

WTS?!?!?! Tobias is back? 3l33t.

[Trencher]

I know how to use the MCG. It still sucks. Heh, I've used all the HA weapons and the JHer is so far above the MCG and Lasher it's funny. The MCG has an effective range or 10M at most and the Lasher can be dodged easily. Jackhammer has too much range considering it's a shotgun designed for up close damage and it continues to be effective at 20M and a bit higher.

I get massive amounts of kills with the MCG when I'm playing TR on my alt server... I don't disagree that maybe the Jackhammer should have a less effective range I'm just saying that I can rack up kills with TR weapons without a problem.

[kerosene31]

The TR were doing quite well on Emerald last night. They were zerging on Amerish and taking most of our bases easily. They had a sound enough strategy as well. They were using their tanks to pound the outdoor defenders before the zerg moved in. Since we Vanu fight so much better outside, we like to keep things outdoors as long as possible. The tanks forced us inside, then we were pounded by Maxs and chainguns.

Of course, I think on Emerald, the TR still has close numbers to the NC. We poor Vanu are still outnumbered there. At least we are no longer outgunned as badly now. :)

[Navaron]

I thought I would clarify some of my points since that post doesn't even make sense to me.

The TR empire has good weapons.

People who bitch about the TR being nerfed suck. If I'm dropping 8 VS for every time they kill me, we're fine, cause I'm good, but not great.

The Jackhammer sucks, but nerfing it isn't the answer. When I come around a corner and see a JH, I should know I'm fucked.

The Lancer is a joke. I hate that thing, it's AV weapon that kills infantry in reinforced armor in 2 hits from the same ranger as the bolt driver at a much faster clip.

While the other empires may also have shitty leaders, the problem with the TR is that low population combined with the old zerg mentality is what's killing them.

Nerfing is never the answer. They should've upped the other maxes back in the day instead of nerfing them. They should up the HA weapons instead of nerfing them. 'Cept that fucking Lancer. I hate that thing.

[beavis88]

Nerfing is never the answer.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. When one [weapon|vehicle|armor|etc] is overpowered with respect to the rest, nerfing that ONE item is almost certainly the answer. If you "buff" the rest of them, you quickly end up in a never ending cycle of increasing power, unless by some miracle you hit 100% perfect balance with that round of buffs.

My favorite example, Asheron's Call, had a no nerf policy, explicitly stated. The net result of this, plus existing game imbalance at retail ship, was that max weapon damage went from 8-16 at retail ship, to something like 35-50 two years later. ALL the original content was basically useless, since players were doing 3x the damage they were balanced against...

In summary: sometimes nerfs really ARE a good thing.

[Riyu]

Highly accurate (even when sprayed). Same (if not longer) range as Bolt Driver. Fast clip.

As a sniper, when I see anyone using this, I run the other way.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Trencher
I do NOT get the whole "our weapons suck" thing. The Cycler is awesome. The MCG is awesome. The Repeater is awesome. The Striker is awesome!

I still find it amazingly ironic that the TR all think the MCG sucks but most of the Heavy Assault people in my NC outfit and many of the outfits we hang around collect them and enjoy the hell out of them. I use Cyclers quite a lot myself.

I think the main problem is that people want all weapons to be the same - a MCG does not function like a JH but that doesn't mean it sucks... you just need to learn how to use it. The JH is more of a no brainer weapon than the MCG or the Lasher - you just get in someone's face and pull the trigger... with the MCG you have to be accurate and you have to lead but the rate of fire and the damage that thing outputs is insane.

You're right, even though no TR are able to find a consistent effective use for the MCG, you and your buddies have figured things out and are far smarter than anybody else.
I was having repeated battles with the same NC individual one night, and I was testing different ideas out with my MCG. We kept getting into one on one battles, and he kept owning me with his Jackhammer. The last time he killed me, he looted my backpack and ran back to a tower and healed himself. Then he came back to the place where we'd fought, and I got there about the same time. I had my Cycler and I destroyed him. This was not an accident, he had the worse weapon for the first time in our conflicts and he got owned.
"with the MCG you have to be accurate..."
You've never even equipped one have you? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You have a better chance of peeing off of a 30 story building and writing your name in perfect cursive on the sidewalk below than you do of being accurate with the MCG. It makes a lot of neat noise, but it ain't accurate. That thing is a heap. I have yet to see an NC kill a TR with the MCG. I just hasn't happened. Odd coincidence, that.
The Repeater is nice, the Cycler is very nice, the Striker is very nice, the MCG is a paperweight.

[Bottleneck]

ROFL cracks me up too see all these people that dont play terran as there primary and tell us how great the cycler is! And If I hear one more moron tell me the terran heavy weapon is better than a paperweight im gonna scream and tear off my clothes right here in the office! Terran weapons DO suck, im not changing sides cause I dont have that kinda free time to get my ranks back, but to be honest I spend a large amount of time looting nc corpses so I can actually kill someone. As for the primary poster looking at your sig your saying you play terran on 2 different servers? LOL good ol FOS flameboy!

[Slab]

This is the only thing you need to know when it comes to MMORPGs like Planetside.

Now matter how balanced the game is or gets, you'll always have people complaining about something.

People will NEVER be satisfied with whatever concessions you give them.

Once you understand that, the game is alot more fun. Also, avoid coming to boards such as this.

I would never have known how crappy my weapon was until I did.

Ignorance IS bliss sometimes...not all the time but sometimes.

[Tryndamere]

Slab, I couldn't agree more.

Nav- Why don't you lead then? Stop complaining about how things suck when you pass the buck onto other people. If you don't like how things are, step up to the plate and take the reigns. Until you do that, stfu.

TR people- The cycler is AWESOME. I killed 19 people in a row last night with it before my 1st death. When I first started playing I wasn't very good with it, but practice with it and you'll see what I mean. I haven't used the MCG a ton, from the times I have, it did seem pretty out of wack, but haven't used it enough to properly comment. TR is a great empire. Stop whining, get some buddies, try to figure out some strategies and go kick ass.

[AcidCat]

Originally posted by Madcow
I have yet to see an NC kill a TR with the MCG. I just hasn't happened. .

LOL, this actually happened to me last night! Of course I was already hurting, but I hear the MCG and here comes some random NC around the corner and kills me with it. I just had to laugh. But I agree the TR Heavy Weapons cert is like throwing those cert points in the toilet.

[AcidCat]

Originally posted by Tryndamere

TR people- The cycler is AWESOME. .

Yeah, I fully agree. And I think the Cyler/Striker combo is very strong and can deal with just about any threat.

[Plato]

TR weapons are great except for that PoS MCG. The striker is great weapon. I used it a lot in the beginning but gave it up for special weapons.

I really like using the special weapons but I still turn to the Cycler since it's a very nice general purpose rifle. If you ever kill anyone with the MCG, you would have had a much easier time getting the same job done with the Cycler.

The Cycler makes the MCG obsolete without even mentioning the 4 certs it saves. Scrap the damn thing- I remain in favour of a whole new TR HA weapon.

[WritheNC]

Damn Navaron I hope some people listen to ya.

It just feels like the TR side is growing smaller each day on emerald, and a few weeks ago everything seemed to be nicely balanced...

[Agathon]

Uhm,

When TR charges into a crowded room, what do they use? Er, uhm, a chain gun thank you very much. How effective is it? Godly! When I am an NC and a guy charges in with one, we get mauled. I don't have to play TR or use a chain gun to know how deadly they are up close. Sure, they might suck lat medium range compared to a jackhammer, but they are also hip-fired and not shoulder-fired like the jackhammer. They cut infantry to pieces at close range, and on my kill lists chat window at least, I see TR using the chain gun NOT the jackhammer to rack up kill after kill after kill ... after kill...

You guys saying it sucks make me laugh. It is a weapon designed for charging into tight places. Use it as it was intended, as I see hundreds of TR doing every day I play, and you will enjoy it. God how I wish your kills were listed by what weapon you used to get them. This would stop all of the bickering frankly when people saw all the kills TR rack up with the supposedly worse than a paper weight weapon!

<waits patiently for the guy above to tear off his clothes at work>

hee hee

;-)

[beavis88]

When I am an NC and a guy charges in with one, we get mauled.

Why don't one of you shoot him with a jackhammer? Unless you're in the middle of the room, back to the door, with the sound turned off, you should beat a MCG every time...

[SmilingBandit]

Not all of us have the HA cert.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by SmilingBandit
Not all of us have the HA cert.

But he's talking about a room full of NC. When I think of a room full I think of at least 8 guys, and I guarantee if there's 8 NC in a room then there's a few with the Jackhammer.

[Hamma]

I agree with Nav, its amazing how stupid people are..

This huge zerg sits on a base waiting for it to turn over.. when they dont even NEED to be in the SOI to gain the EXP? Sure a few squads should stay.. but a few hundred people do not

[Tryndamere]

If you don't like that they do that, get CR 4-5 and lead them then.

If the leaders suck, replace them, don't say "someone take control omg!"

Don't point out the splinter in your neighbor's eye before you remove the plank in yours~

[SmilingBandit]

Within a squad two or three heavy weapons troops would not be out of the ordinary.

A pretty rounded infantry squad would be something like: A Gal or sunderer driver, 2 maxes, a hacker, medic/eng, a couple of grunts and a couple of pigs.

[Hamma]

Originally posted by Tryndamere
If you don't like that they do that, get CR 4-5 and lead them then. working on it :p

[BUGGER]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
The fact is, TR is fine, even if underpopulated. The problem lies within the leadership. As far as I know, there aren't any great battle plans or massive coordinations going on. Every now and then, some schmuck will come on and say, "Umm, Gunuku kinda needs an ant, so if you're not doing anything, could you drive one by?" - which is NOT fucking leading. I sux when on markov and u got 2 cr5s bitchin about "ok that assholes cont is full, com fight over here!"

[Trencher]

You're right, even though no TR are able to find a consistent effective use for the MCG, you and your buddies have figured things out and are far smarter than anybody else.
Could be... *shurg* I'm not claiming to be smarter than anyone else or that much better than anyone else... I am claiming that, although it might not appeal to everyone, the MCG doesn't suck. Sure, it could probably use some improvements but I love the thing.
I was having repeated battles with the same NC individual one night, and I was testing different ideas out with my MCG. We kept getting into one on one battles, and he kept owning me with his Jackhammer.
Just because they're both Heavy Assault weapons doesn't mean that if you guys duel with them you should both have similar results. They're clearly two different kinds of weapons useful in two different kinds of situations.
The last time he killed me, he looted my backpack and ran back to a tower and healed himself. Then he came back to the place where we'd fought, and I got there about the same time. I had my Cycler and I destroyed him. This was not an accident, he had the worse weapon for the first time in our conflicts and he got owned.
Or he quite possabilly didn't have much experience with the MCG while you, being TR, probably use a cycler almost constantly.
"with the MCG you have to be accurate..."
You've never even equipped one have you? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You have a better chance of peeing off of a 30 story building and writing your name in perfect cursive on the sidewalk below than you do of being accurate with the MCG. It makes a lot of neat noise, but it ain't accurate. That thing is a heap. I have yet to see an NC kill a TR with the MCG. I just hasn't happened. Odd coincidence, that.
No, I think I know what I'm talking about... although my main character, an NC, doesn't cert in heavy assault, my main alternate on another server is TR and uses the MCG almost exclusively. YOU have to be more accurate with the weapon because the weapon is quite inaccurate itself. If you want to kill someone with it you have to try your damnedest to do your part in making sure every bullet is going to at least go in the general direction of your opponent. When I said you have to be more accurate, I meant than you have to be with the JH, which seems to be able to lay people out without much consideration for accuracy because of its nice scatter.
The Repeater is nice, the Cycler is very nice, the Striker is very nice, the MCG is a paperweight.
We might disagree about the MCG bit at least you don't think the Cycler is crap like a lot of TR I've spoken with. I love the Cycler - I think I'm a TR at heart... I just can't pull off the goggle thing.

[MJBuddy]

god, you understand, the MAXs were not nerfed, merely evened

the AI max was ripping up tanks, and the AT max was ripping up infantry, they just fixed that, period

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Trencher
Just because they're both Heavy Assault weapons doesn't mean that if you guys duel with them you should both have similar results. They're clearly two different kinds of weapons useful in two different kinds of situations.

Right, but you do understand the situation I'm outlining right? Outside, near a bridge? The situation where (theoretically) the MCG should own the Jackhammer assuming the individuals both know what they're doing? I have no problem with the idea that the Jackhammer should own in CQB, I've already detailed my experimenting with the MCG vs. JH and how the Jackhammer also owns it past 30 meters. That's not exactly close quarters. When you get past 30 meters and the spread on the MCG becomes intolerable (and impossible to beat any target with a brain), the Jackhammer can down reinforced in 4 shots. So long range, nobody wins, medium range Jackhammer wins, close range Jackhammer wins (unless MCG gets the drop and unloads at point blank from behind).

Or he quite possabilly didn't have much experience with the MCG while you, being TR, probably use a cycler almost constantly.

I did use the cycler quite a bit, since I certed in heavy I've been using the MCG almost exclusively just to test it. I will sometimes bust out the cycler in hairy situations still, and I will also bring it out to compare results I got with the MCG in similar situations.

No, I think I know what I'm talking about... although my main character, an NC, doesn't cert in heavy assault, my main alternate on another server is TR and uses the MCG almost exclusively. YOU have to be more accurate with the weapon because the weapon is quite inaccurate itself. If you want to kill someone with it you have to try your damnedest to do your part in making sure every bullet is going to at least go in the general direction of your opponent. When I said you have to be more accurate, I meant than you have to be with the JH, which seems to be able to lay people out without much consideration for accuracy because of its nice scatter.

I'm sorry, but this just doesn't make sense to me. You have to be more accurate because the weapon isn't? That's an impossibility. After the first bullet out of the MCG (which seems to hit dead center each time) you have no control over any of the following shots. Even using controlled burst fire you have minimal control and from anything considered a short to medium distance you're lucky to land 50% of your rounds. Because you're using controlled bursts, you're crippling the supposed advantage of the MCG (spitting out rounds quickly). It's a poorly conceived weapon, nothing more or less.

We might disagree about the MCG bit at least you don't think the Cycler is crap like a lot of TR I've spoken with. I love the Cycler - I think I'm a TR at heart... I just can't pull off the goggle thing.

I don't hear anybody complain about the Cycler, actually. The CoF expands slowly even when running which allows circle strafing and it's excellent from a distance. It doesn't deal much damage but it doesn't run through it's magazine too quickly and seems to fall in line with the idea behind TR. I don't ever use the AP rounds in the thing (never had much luck there) so when I've got my Cycler I've usually got my Striker to take care of those situations.
The Repeater seems to fall less in line with the TR idea (high rate of fire, lower damage) but that's my favorite gun when I play infil as well. I've noticed more than a few Repeaters getting looted by enemy infil as well, which is usually a good sign of a weapon's worth.
Until one of my many experiments with the MCG pans out, however, there's no way we'll agree. The only time (besides point blank or on a group close up, and only then if they aren't pointing Jackhammers at me) that I've found use for it is circle strafing an enemy MAX with AP rounds, and the fact that you can take a full health MAX down to death without reloading is a beautiful thing. I'll have to try the Jackhammer with AP rounds and see how well that handles it.

[Tryndamere]

working on it


Good man.

[Trencher]

I'm sorry, but this just doesn't make sense to me. You have to be more accurate because the weapon isn't? That's an impossibility. After the first bullet out of the MCG (which seems to hit dead center each time) you have no control over any of the following shots. Even using controlled burst fire you have minimal control and from anything considered a short to medium distance you're lucky to land 50% of your rounds. Because you're using controlled bursts, you're crippling the supposed advantage of the MCG (spitting out rounds quickly). It's a poorly conceived weapon, nothing more or less.
Let me try to explain it one more time... the Jackhammer doesn't take a lot of skill to use effectively but I think the MCG does. There... dumbed down as much as possible. That's not to say that in skilled hands it's JUST as effective as the JH... my intent is not to say that the JH shouldn't be nerfed or whatever, I don't give a toss about it... different discussion... but that the MCG isn't total crap and some of us even prefer it. Some of your above comments might be right on though I'd like to do some more detailed tests of my own before we bother tearing into eachother any more about how good the MCG is or isn't.

I don't hear anybody complain about the Cycler, actually.
Lucky you. I could sit here for hours pulling messages off the official boards and yes, even these ones, where someone has said the cycler needs work or just plain sucks. I've also heard a lot of it in game, though obviously that's harder to cite. Sadly, I don't care enough about the subject to waste my time since I think those people are both in the minority and speaking purely on preconceived baseless ideas of how the gun should perform.

The Repeater seems to fall less in line with the TR idea (high rate of fire, lower damage) but that's my favorite gun when I play infil as well. I've noticed more than a few Repeaters getting looted by enemy infil as well, which is usually a good sign of a weapon's worth.
I haven't used a Repeater much personally so I have no idea how easy it is to actually use, however, of the very few I've encountered in the field as an NC, many of them have ended with me being blown away and left wondering what just happened. I respect it.

Until one of my many experiments with the MCG pans out, however, there's no way we'll agree.
Good enough for me... I'll use it, you won't... we'll both be somewhat happy.

[Bottleneck]

Please stop bumping this guys thread, hes obviously a moron, just let him fade away. Please refer to sig for rest of my valued opinion

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by Fuzzymath
You've never faced 'luci' (NC, Konried) and his army from hell...Damn hes annoying. The one decnt leader. Nerf the jackhammer, nerf the guass, nerf the pheonix, but you shall never nerf the Luci!!!!!!


PS:I am a member of his demon army, in case you haven't noticed. Look forward to owning you. :)

[JLeeAZN]

complaining... complaing... complaing...

There is nothing wrong with any of the empires heavy assault guns...
The minichaingun - Has a huge CoF because thats just a way a machine gun is... just dont hold the fire button down.... holy shit... look at it.. you hold it with two hands... its as long as your legs.. ofcourse you gonna shake when you shoot it.. so the CoF is fine
The jackhammer - Hell... its a shotgun - it supposed to kill in 3-4 shots
The Lancer - A ball of energy?!?!?!.... duh its gonna hit you hard and its gonna hurt.. and it uses energy... duh its gonna fire a little on the slow side

Lets get realistic here....

Add more range to the jackhammer? - its a shotgun.. no
Take the 3 round burst off and add a slower reload?... yes
Nerf the jackhammer because it pwns everyone? ....no

[1024]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
Simple as that. We're massively outnumbered on Emerald, and our leaders don't understand any concepts higher than zerg, yet we still manage to do decent. The TR forces are about 85% zombies who sprint from point A to point B, die, and respawn. The so called leaders and cr4 and 5 guys, don't know leadership from a hole in the ground. Despite having enemies with nigh defenceble weapons (The Lancer is lame and you know it), the TR still manages to have a presence. This in itself is amazing.

The fact is, TR is fine, even if underpopulated. The problem lies within the leadership. As far as I know, there aren't any great battle plans or massive coordinations going on. Every now and then, some schmuck will come on and say, "Umm, Gunuku kinda needs an ant, so if you're not doing anything, could you drive one by?" - which is NOT fucking leading.

Don't give me crap about weapon nerfs either. I was dropping 8 vanu to my 1 death all night tonight as we got stomped backwards.

The whole point of this is: If you're a TR leader, get your head out of your ass. Start leading. If you don't know how, go watch ANY fucking war movie, listen to CDL transcripts of squad talk, watch any of these tutorials out there. Your job isn't to ask people to do things, it's to get stuff done. So do it.

This has been a paid broadcast of the Navarone bitching system. This channel and it's advertisers do not neccessarily support or condone the actions of Navarone. This concludes our regularly scheduled broadcast day. Thank you, and God Bless America.

YES!!! FINALLY ANOTHER SMART PERSON!!!

[Hamma]

:lol:

[Kaikou]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
listen to CDL transcripts of squad talk

I dunno about that :rolleyes:

I think ouro would drive you people crazy first :D

[Navaron]

Nah, the one's you guys had online a way back. That's good communication. I'd rather listen to ouro than some of these asshats.

[Lise]

TR on Konried seems fairly well led, in my opinion. We don't have anyone who's brilliant at mass attacks, but MOST of the individual outfit commanders and their subcommanders seem to at least have some idea of which way the wind is blowing.

On Emerald, though... well, that's the trash server anyway. Who still plays on that thing? :D

And the Mini-Chaingun is an OK weapon... it'll kill things, no doubt about it. It's just that the Lasher and Hammer do it faster and more efficiently than the ol' Chaingun.

[Fuzzymath]

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
The one decnt leader. Nerf the jackhammer, nerf the guass, nerf the pheonix, but you shall never nerf the Luci!!!!!!


PS:I am a member of his demon army, in case you haven't noticed. Look forward to owning you. :)

Oddly enough, we kicked your guys butts last night. All the way back though your Solsar warpgate ^^

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by Fuzzymath
Oddly enough, we kicked your guys butts last night. All the way back though your Solsar warpgate ^^ Of course you did, I wasn't playing last night. :D

On a serious note, where you playing against a Luci led force, or just NC on konried? There is a difference. ;)

[Madcow]

Originally posted by JLeeAZN
complaining... complaing... complaing...

There is nothing wrong with any of the empires heavy assault guns...
The minichaingun - Has a huge CoF because thats just a way a machine gun is... just dont hold the fire button down.... holy shit... look at it.. you hold it with two hands... its as long as your legs.. ofcourse you gonna shake when you shoot it.. so the CoF is fine

Reading comprehension...many people have talked about the burst fire with the MCG which still expands the CoF entirely too quickly to keep it useful.

The jackhammer - Hell... its a shotgun - it supposed to kill in 3-4 shots

Same thing. Fine, it should kill quickly up close. It should not kill quickly from a distance which it does.

The Lancer - A ball of energy?!?!?!.... duh its gonna hit you hard and its gonna hurt.. and it uses energy... duh its gonna fire a little on the slow side

Energy moves slowly? Wow, I had no idea. For some reason I was under the impression that energy would be able to move quicker than bullets.

Lets get realistic here....

Add more range to the jackhammer? - its a shotgun.. no

Again, test the range. If they added more it would be a bolt driver.

Take the 3 round burst off and add a slower reload?... yes

Nobody uses the 3 round burst, so no big deal. A slower reload would change the weapon dramatically and might not be a horrible fix (although I'd still prefer they just fix the other HA).

Nerf the jackhammer because it pwns everyone? ....no

Agree, but make it behave a bit more like a shotgun would be nice. From 30+ meters when a shotgun meets a machine gun the shotgun user should get torn up ever time.

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by Madcow
Agree, but make it behave a bit more like a shotgun would be nice. From 30+ meters when a shotgun meets a machine gun the shotgun user should get torn up ever time. Ummm, an invisible person that shoots you in the head with a shotgun pistol would kill you in one hit. Its about balance, not realism. The range already sucks in my opinion.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
Ummm, an invisible person that shoots you in the head with a shotgun pistol would kill you in one hit. Its about balance, not realism. The range already sucks in my opinion.

It kills reinforced at 30 meters in 4 shots. How does that suck again?

[MilitantB0B]

I was more commenting towards the statement that if any more range was added, it would be a bolt driver. That is just exagration. Besides, in real life a shotgun would own at 30 meters, Assuming it wasn't a sawn off. But I will take a page from my own book here and forget reall world and look at balance. Yes, it is a little strong, but the weapon is as such that nerfing it will make it just a little bit better then a sweeper. In my opinion, if it really is that overpowered that it is ruining the gamming experience, then they ought to redesign the NC HA, heck, maybe everyones HA, cause a nerfed JH would just suck.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
I was more commenting towards the statement that if any more range was added, it would be a bolt driver. That is just exagration. Besides, in real life a shotgun would own at 30 meters, Assuming it wasn't a sawn off. But I will take a page from my own book here and forget reall world and look at balance. Yes, it is a little strong, but the weapon is as such that nerfing it will make it just a little bit better then a sweeper. In my opinion, if it really is that overpowered that it is ruining the gamming experience, then they ought to redesign the NC HA, heck, maybe everyones HA, cause a nerfed JH would just suck.

You're right, the sniper comment was an exaggeration. Somebody on this board posted about their experimenting with the JH at 70 meters and being surprised at how much damage it did, but I haven't done the experiment myself yet so can't speak directly to it (and 70 is beyond ludicrous for that weapon). In real life a shotgun would not own at 30 meters at all. It would do damage, certainly, but own? Not at all. You're talking over 100 feet, with pellet spread keeping the damage from focusing. In real life the guy with the shotgun gets ripped to shreds at 30 meters by the guy with the machine gun (or pistol for that matter if he knows what he's doing).
So taking a page from your book and throwing the real world out and looking at balance, how can you possibly objectively say that the JH isn't overpowered in terms of the HA? I've said all along that the other 2 need tweaking and have never yelled for a nerf even when I see all the NC nervous twitches when their beloved weapon is mentioned at all. It reloads insanely quick, has range far beyond what it has any business having, has an extremely large magazine for the damage it deals, has a non-expanding CoF and does immense damage up close. It is a great weapon, but it's honestly got too many positives going for it to keep it from easily outclassing the other HA in 90% of the situations it will encounter. That's an issue.

[Malodorous]

Originally posted by Trencher
Just because they're both Heavy Assault weapons doesn't mean that if you guys duel with them you should both have similar results. They're clearly two different kinds of weapons useful in two different kinds of situations.

But the point in all of this....not only does the JH surpass the MCG in it's supposed function "close-in combat/room clearing" it also has a very effective use as a mid-range weapon. In comparison the MCG is woefully inadequate. Virtually useless. I have HA cert on my TR character, and after a solid week of trying to find some angle on making the MCG work I have given up altogether. It isn't even a good paperweight, the useless thing would take up too much room on the desk. I keep a locker full of WhackHammas, and they do the job admirably.

I still contend beefing the other HA weapons is not the answer. At this point, the Jackhammer shows up in a disproportionate number of NC hands in combat, beefing the other two would lead to exactly the same situation. We would wind up with a third of the battlefield or more, swinging obnoxiously over-powered HA weapons...a worsening of the current situation, not a correction. Cycler is damn good (though in fairness I still prefer the Gauss Rifle) and the Striker is very nice as well, but the MCG is offensive it is such crap.

A month of NC running roughshod over TR with the JH has directly contributed to the steady depletion of the TR population. I acknowledge there are some issues equally pressing to address in the game, but none more directly impacting on gameplay and customer satisfaction.