Jackhammer isn't as overpowered as you might think

[Smaug]

Believe it or not in my tests(firing each weapon like 100 times :D), The Jackhammer and Sweeper fire at the same ROF. I have no idea about damage but honestly it couldn't be that much more because I can drop someone in 3 sweeper shots. Therefore the only distinguishing mark between the two is the bigger clip size and imo useless alt fire mode. In actual combat I usually never used alt-fire mode except when I was maybe surprising a sniper and even then he would not die and scramble his way out of it. The bigger clip size helps alot, not having to reload constantly in big battles but what do you expect, it has 3 barrels. Plus its 4 freaking points I think you should get a perk of 8 more shots compared to the .6 cert point sweeper. I think that the uber weapon myth has just come from people complaining and then everyone following what that person says without any research. So if you can prove me wrong please do so because I am dumbfounded as to why this has become so blown out of proportion. I also would like to note that I do not use the jackhammer anymore, it costs too much imo I use the gauss, which I get alot more enjoyment out of. Like has been said before though, they need to stop nerfing and bringing stuff up to par, just make the MCG and lasher better, not the jackhammer worse.

[Ouroboros]

I'm pretty sure the Jackhammer does more damage, since the only reason the devs made it better was because people complained that the Jackhammer was nothing but a Sweeper with more shots in a clip.

[MilitantB0B]

It may be more powerfull then the other HA weapons (I say may because I am not willing to conceed that point yet:D) But nerfing it would give us a sweeper shotgun thats only a little bit better. IMHO they just need to Reinvint HA all over again. Nobody seems happy with it. :D

[Bottleneck]

Please stop the JH threads hehe, I know there overpowered and have stated such vocally whenever I can get anyone to listen to me. Heres a test, stand on oposite sides of a road from a buddy, you have a jack and him with a chaingun/lasher. Open fire at the same time. Hell be dead and youll be scratched. Its the range the jackhammer is effective at that is truely the base of most of these complaints as its got better damage and acurracy at range than the other two heavy weapons but is supposed to be a "close combat" weapon. If they made it shoot all over hell at anything over point blank like the chaingun does people would shut up. As it stands its supposed to be the close quarters killer and the chain is supposed to be the medium range killer, with the lasher being the only one effective at long range (as is vanu's signature). Problem is chaingun blows monkey but at anything over point blank, lasher cant kill anyone fast enough to prevent them running up, and jackhammer basically beats the crap out of anyone up to medium range. They just have a little tweaking to do, the game just came out after all.

[JakeLogan]

Well the way I see it the devs should do 1 of 2 things. 1 bring others up to par 2. make the jackhammer a joke like the other HA weapons.

[kerosene31]

Isn't it strange that we rarely heard anything about the jackhammer until after the TR nerf?

Anyway, I have never had any serious problems with the jack, but the range does seem a little long. I would much prefer that they bump up the lasher and the chaingun a bit to be equal. If they nerf the jack, then what is next?

[shinken]

they should bring the other HA weapons up to par instead of nerfing the jackhammer, i have seen far more posts on how weak the other HA weapons are than how over powered the jackhammer is, IMO the chaingun needs this the most, and should have a much smaller CoF than it does now

[kerosene31]

I can't comment much on the chaingun, other than the occasional looting I haven't used one much. I use the lasher a lot, and it is reasonably effective. The key is leading the target and aiming. I just wish they would speed up the orbs and maybe put some of the lash effect back in from beta.

I get most of my grief from firing at enemies far away. In the time it takes for the orb to get there, the enemy has moved and my teammate walks right in front of it.

[Bottleneck]

The CoF (cone of fire) of the chain gun is the same as a amp. So basically its effective at the same range. You can see the issue there...
Thing that needs work on the lasher is damage vs infantry, it seems to do pretty good against my harraser *shakes fist*

[Doofy#2]

Just go and play the game.

Whining about it has not gotten anything done, so continuing to do so just proves on undeniable fact.....................







You were born small in the pants.
that is all

[Madcow]

Originally posted by kerosene31
Isn't it strange that we rarely heard anything about the jackhammer until after the TR nerf?

I'm sorry, but I keep hearing this 'point' and it's really not valid. The TR MAX's were in their current form for a period at the end of beta. People had time to experiment with them and get used to them, and people had time to form an opinion that they were overpowered (along with the MCG which got the nerf before the end of beta).
The Jackhammer was changed at the end of beta and people needed time to experiment, adjust and get used to what they could do. The fact that you see some correlation between the TR 'nerf' (which truly only nerfed the DC in my opinion, which shouldn't have been as strong against infantry as it was) doesn't mean it exists. There are other factors here. Once people had time to use the newly modified weapon, a number of people gravitated to it as you can expect from an extremely powerful weapon. The more NC people gravitated to it, the more chance that other factions would have multiple experiences on the bad side of it. These experiences then add up, and opinions are formed. You need to give a 'newer' weapon time to be absorbed, and in my opinion that's what happened with the Jackhammer. Once the other empires realized that they were flushing 4 cert points while NC was flourishing with theirs it didn't seem quite so kosher any more.

[JakeLogan]

Actually you are wrong the NC and Vs bitching about the Tr maxs got them nerfed. see whining does work.

[BUGGER]

Originally posted by kerosene31
Isn't it strange that we rarely heard anything about the jackhammer until after the TR nerf? Its been the only thin i've been complaining about since the nerfing. The only ting I have to complain about is the jackhammers repeat rate, I mean nc is hard and slow, tr is soft and fast. Witht he jackhammer, it makes it say hard and fast. I got no problem with its firepower, i got a problem with its speed.

[Airlift]

This looks like a good place for me to laugh at the Jackhammer Guy who I brutally stabbed to death last night. Ahem:


Mwuhuhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!1111one11!

[Happy lil Elf]

With he jackhammer, it makes it say hard and fast. I got no problem with its firepower, i got a problem with its speed.


Yes...because the Jackhammer is rapid fire....

/em shakes head and walks away

[Smaug]

Actually bugger the sweeper and jackhammer have the same ROF.

[BUGGER]

Yes, but get the point, sweeper is.....err wats the word, used by every empire, the jackhammer is used by nc, nc is hard and slow, the.....other......is its own preference. no 1 gives a shit about those weapons cause every empire could use em, jackhammer, lasher (right?), chaingun is empire spacific, we give a shit about what those weapons do (course my chaingun sucks penis so I really care about the jacker).

[Smaug]

Yes but you are saying NC is hard and slow, the jackhammer isnt that fast, that's what I was implying. You could lower the ROF a little but then, it would be slower than sweeper and would sort of negate the point of buying it. I like higher ROF, than really slow and more damage. These are supposed to be HEAVY weapons, not minutely improved medium assault weapons :P. Seriously we need to bring MCG and Lasher UP TO PAR with JH. Simple fix that would end this whole debate. Leave the JH as it is, tighten the MCG COF and speed up the Lasher bullets.

[BUGGER]

its secondry fire is fast, course its cone gets really big, but still, its kinda fast. Still, if we had a shootoff (cant run, jsut sit and fire) with each weapon, the jacker would win all.

[Smaug]

Yes alt-fire mode is fast, It's supposed to be, but the trade off is that it takes long to reload, by that time(assuming that you didn't kill an MCG or Lasher user with those shots) you would be dead. Also, I know the JH would win atm, thats why we need to improve MCG and Lasher, did you even read what I said in the above post? Because that is what I said, improve, don't nerf. But still what do you expect if you just sit there and fire, sure you're probably gonna be killed by the most powerful. The JH will always be most powerful in terms of damage. You aren't supposed to just sit there in battle and not run. You have to find exploits to enemy weapons. As soon as MCG COF gets tightened, you will need to stay at medium range, and you will murder a JH user. Same with Lasher, just stay at long range, and strafe.

[Streamline]

Bah.... keep it the way it is. Boost the other two HA weapons abit. I'd rather see them put in a slug in place of AP ammo. But other than that i like the JH the way it is.

The MiniCG need a slightly tighter CoF and slightly faster recovery.

The Lasher... I'd take a slower RoF as compensation for a much much faster projectile, better recovery, and tighter CoF.

[BUGGER]

well my horny old self wants nrf cause the MCG got nerfed (and i dunno if the lasher did too....).

[Plato]

Another HA thread! Yay!

/engage whine mode

"It's a triple barrelled shotgun it's meant to own in CQB. If it gets nerfed or adjusted it'd just be a sweeper. In fact it's not much better than a sweeper right now anyway." Same old, same old from the NC...

I think more NC should ask that the MCG and to a lesser extent the Lasher get brought up to par with the JH. The longer the other HA weapons suck, the more likely the JH is to get nerfed. It's in everyone's best interest....

[BUGGER]

o ops i skipped a few lines.

yes you are supposto run, but taht only makes bigger chances of you winning and not getting hit. if u got 1 running and shooting while the sitter jsut shoot, ofcourse that guys gona die. but to be perfectly eaven (or atleast really close), is for each to die at the same time (or be jacked all the way to 10 health or sumtin). if both are running then its 50/50 that you'll win or die, but if one weapon is stronger, then the odds lower.

[Happy lil Elf]

Of course unless you have the barrel up buried somewhere in their left lung, the secondary fire is pretty useless. The second and third shots are fired with the COF already maxed out which means if it's farther than 5m away, you don't hit it.

[tmartinez72]

I don't think that the JH is overpowered, it's just way better than the MCG and Lasher.

And it's not about keeping "variety" between the 3 HAs. The JH is simply the best weapon for the job of HA close-quarter combat.

The Chain-gun is supposed to excel in extremely close quarters, but they get owned with anyone with a MA weapon.

I don't even know what the Lasher is good for. Medium-range close quarters? Hence the range and lack of speed of the orbs? Whatever it is, it gets owned by anything but a Beamer.

These are just "my" opinions on improving the other HA weapons to JH standards.

MCG: Close that CoF but "drop the damage massively at range" (20m). If they simply close the CoF, then it's a Cycler that can snipe at medium range. Not realistic for sure, but what in this game is?

Lasher: Just increase the speed of the orbs. Even if means sacrificing distance. Have the orbs dissapate at 20m or drop the damage like the MCG. I don't care about the so-called "lashing" damage. Keep that as-is as long as they increase the speed.

[12tontuna]

Originally posted by Plato
Another HA thread! Yay!

/engage whine mode

"It's a triple barrelled shotgun it's meant to own in CQB. If it gets nerfed or adjusted it'd just be a sweeper. In fact it's not much better than a sweeper right now anyway." Same old, same old from the NC...

I think more NC should ask that the MCG and to a lesser extent the Lasher get brought up to par with the JH. The longer the other HA weapons suck, the more likely the JH is to get nerfed. It's in everyone's best interest....

The Lasher to a LESSER extent?

I used this turd for 10 BR. It's just that. I got told to use it outdoors, indoors, from afar, up close...doesn't matter. To add insult to injury I got hosed by an AMP up close last night by an EXO...and I had lead him into 3 shots.

I think the MCG should wind up like it does now, but reduce the wielder's movement rate to keep the COF smaller...like EVERY other weapon. If he aint moving, the damn COF shouldn't get to be the size of a Galaxy. The friggen thing should be able to waste stuff at 30 to 50m. It can barely do that at 3m.

Now the Lasher, um lets see. The projectiles are SLOW. Nothing like watching someone 10m away SLOWLY step sideways and avoid them. The projectiles ARE BIG AND EASILY SEEN. Lastly, they have little to no colleteral damage ability. Basically, it's a Nerf Ball launcher. Christ, I'd be better off hand bombing the clips at you most of the time. The weapon, like most Vanu specific "weapons" is trash. And let us not harp on the Lancer, you gotta have skill and patience to use it against infantry.

[Happy lil Elf]

I agree with changing the cof on the MCG. Seems like the best solution and something needs to be changed with that gun. Has to be done very carefully though. You can snipe with a cycler right now due to it's insanely small cof when crouched, I'd hate to see what a MCG could do :p

Lasher is a no brainer really, just increase the projectile speed a bit.

[BUGGER]

He'n the lasher is the worst outa 3, and the MCG and lasher should be brought up to jacker power.

[Kaikou]

Someone said the jackhammer being nerfed would produce a weapon only slightly better than the sweeper.

What is the MCG right now? It is a less accurate version of the cycler with double the clip size. And with that bad accuracy, the chaingun's double clip size gets canceled out, because double the shots miss. I was actually able to do more damage to a mosquito in the VR going full auto with a cycler than I was with the MCG.

MCG is simply a cycler with more ammo and less accuracy. What difference is there from a jackhammer being a better version of the sweeper?

Well for one it would be better, and two the MCG already IS as bad as a medium assault weapon, while the jackhammer is NOT.

[1024]

IF all you people would just stop whing about the jackhammer, pick up a ccert that is good against it, like from a longrange, then the world would be better. :rolleyes:

[Kaikou]

once the devs modify the game so battles don't take place indoors all the time maybe the jackhammer won't be such an issue...

[Smaug]

You know honestly, I try. I try and say, ok listen to this, its not that overpowered but still, improve the other two HA weapons. Then people just post whatever they want to say, without reading other peoples posts. I mean its like they never said anything. Stop just reiterating what everyone else is saying. The MCG has the COF of an AMP. Yes we know! Thats why I said, smaller COF. Also bugger, that test where you just stand next to each other and fire would not work. Well, right now it might work with the terrible COF on the MCG, but as soon as they fix it, it won't work. Why? Because the Jackhammer is a Short range weapon, ok maybe it works well at medium range, maybe they'll fix that too. The MCG when fixed will be a medium range type weapon. Therefore if you both stood at short range and fired away, the JH would likely win, expectedly. If you stood at medium range the MCG would likely win(when fixed), expectedly. Your 'test' has a major flaw.

[Plato]

Originally posted by 12tontuna
The Lasher to a LESSER extent?

LOL - I just reread my post and I did word that badly. I meant to say that the MCG needs serious help and that the Lasher is a viable weapon but still needs a tune-up to be on par with the JH and be worth the 4 certs.

People would bitch less about the JH if they respected their own empire's HA weapon. You can circle strafe all day long with a JH, ever tried doing that with a minigun? Well use the minigun at medium range in short bursts? Cycler is better than the minigun at medium and long ranges..

I just wish the devs would acknowledge there is a problem and fix the Lasher, MCG in due course..

[Happy lil Elf]

Someone said the jackhammer being nerfed would produce a weapon only slightly better than the sweeper.

What is the MCG right now? It is a less accurate version of the cycler with double the clip size. And with that bad accuracy, the chaingun's double clip size gets canceled out, because double the shots miss. I was actually able to do more damage to a mosquito in the VR going full auto with a cycler than I was with the MCG.

MCG is simply a cycler with more ammo and less accuracy. What difference is there from a jackhammer being a better version of the sweeper?

Well for one it would be better, and two the MCG already IS as bad as a medium assault weapon, while the jackhammer is NOT.

.....I don't even know where to start >.<

[1024]

:thisthreadsucks:

:endthread:

[Plato]

The NC nerfed the thread!! Someone run them over with a mag..

[12tontuna]

When I was VS, I picked up the ONLY cert good against the Jackhammer while you're on the ground.

Magrider.

Discuss.

[Happy lil Elf]

Or you could use your sniper rifl...err I mean the Lancer.

[12tontuna]

Ya, except our snip- er sniper rifle just doesn't seem to be as good as you'd have persons believe.

No, for me, the best possible weapon against the Jackhammer is the Magrider.

Or, as I call it, the DeathStar.

[Arakiel]

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
Or you could use your sniper rifl...err I mean the Lancer.

Why isn't the lancer even in the same league as the jackhammer? Well, other than one being an AV wep and one being a HA.. but you brought it up, so, let's discuss:

* The lancer's CoF expands extremely rapidly, making it an almost forced sit-and-crouch weeapon. The jackhammer doesn't lose effectiveness even when running with surge.
* Lancer ammo is 3x3 for 6 shots. Jackhammer ammo is 2x2 for 30 shots. (I think? Not sure on the 3x3 and 2x2, but the lancer boxes are uh.. the big ones.)
* The lancer is an exact fire weapon. The jackhammer hits pretty much anything in the center of the screen of the user.
* The lancer does less damage per second as compared to the jackhammer.
* The lancer has both a delay between charge and firing, as well as a delay between when the beam actually hits the target. The jackhammer is point-and-click.
* The jackhammer is an indoor weapon. The lancer is an outdoor weapon. There are no CCs outdoors.

Etc, etc. Saying that the lancer is overpowered when compared to the jackhammer is a nice attempt at averting blame, but the lancer doesn't bring half the potency to the battlefield that the jackhammer does.

[Arakiel]

(double post, bleh)