SOE Vision - in general.

[Chanfan]

Here (http://www.legendmud.org/raph/gaming/gdc_2002_community_files/frame.htm) is a Sony exec's ranchers guide on how to herd the community.

Here (http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum8/HTML/003043.html) is a link to the official forums where I got the link from.

I know, I know - I'm enjoying PS anyway. It's just an interesting insight into the corporate mind.

Ignorance was bliss. :scared:

[JakeLogan]

haha:rofl: what?:huh:

[Peacemaker]

Planet Side is currently somewere between trouble makers verbal and going live! Hmmmmm. Bastards!!!! Everything in there happened.

[teratravp]

"Troublemakers, type I: verbal�Can they become ombudsmen? �Do they have a sub-community that sees them as a leader? �Do they have their own forums? � �Can they be ostracized? �Must be seen to make public effort to communicate �You�ll need to put on a show of sorrow when you fail �Make comments to 3rd party about your sorrow too � �Do you have excuses for banning? �Language is the most common"

This is the most disturbing part, especially since the last sentence clearly indicates that it is their practice to ban people they perceive as not part of the "sheeple", and to use a bullshit reason like language to do it.

I've been hovering around waiting for PS to get that content and depth boost and join in... but this is enough to wrap my interest up in a tidy little package that I can throw away and never think about again.

PS is such a bizarre, PUNITIVE, for god's sake, game. They get off on punishing and herding people, look at the extent they've fussed over the systems of doing just that rather then make a game... This is just too weird for my blood... buh bye PS.

[Lise]

Don�t share this info with your users :)

TOO LATE, MOTHERBITCHES.

Won't make me leave just yet though. If they start pulling this shit hardcore then I'm gone, but if they get a brain (as I suspect Smokejumper and Stryker will force them to do on threat of resigning from SOE) then PS should be OK.

But yes, from now on I take everything Sporkfire says with a grain of salt.

[Doppler]

Sony is a business, and gaming is a big business. They have a responsibility to protect their livelyhood and I support that. It's important to know that I either agree nor dispute the rightness of the bans they hand out, but I do support their right to do it.

Personally I avoid the OF i dont care about their press releases so long as content updates are regular, which they have been. I have PSU fuck the OF.

[Doppler]

Oh by the way where's the link?

[IDgaf]

Why is this a surprise? It's called business.

Nothing that this company is doing is unusual - it's what all corporations (and governments) have been doing for a long long time.

Want to know to why PSU gets Smoke to comment - but no-one drills Smoke about the hard issues? Look to that first document.

No matter how cynical you may be about companies, the reality is always worse. If you're not cynical, you should start being so.

[Intruder]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by teratravp
"Troublemakers, type I: verbal�Can they become ombudsmen? �Do they have a sub-community that sees them as a leader? �Do they have their own forums? � �Can they be ostracized? �Must be seen to make public effort to communicate �You�ll need to put on a show of sorrow when you fail �Make comments to 3rd party about your sorrow too � �Do you have excuses for banning? �Language is the most common"

This is the most disturbing part, especially since the last sentence clearly indicates that it is their practice to ban people they perceive as not part of the "sheeple", and to use a bullshit reason like language to do it.

QUOTE]



I love hypocracy :)

If this is a shock to you, any of you reading it, then you haven't experienced first hand the corporate world. Its more ruthless than a game of PS or a bully in the school yard.
This hs been the way for any game you have or will play, all I can suggest is enjoy the read, and either :
1. don't let it get to you and keep on playing the games you love.
or
2. If it annoys you soo much, then get out there create your own game and community and experience it first hand...



Information is power, go grab the power - M Meehan

[Hamma]

:huh:

Very interesting. Bet someone will be losing their job over that getting out :lol:

[teratravp]

"If this is a shock to you, any of you reading it, then you haven't experienced first hand the corporate world. Its more ruthless than a game of PS or a bully in the school yard.
This hs been the way for any game you have or will play, all I can suggest is enjoy the read, and either :
1. don't let it get to you and keep on playing the games you love.
or
2. If it annoys you soo much, then get out there create your own game and community and experience it first hand..."

Hey, just because that's the way it is doesn't mean it isn't shocking to me. People get murdered/raped/what have you everyday that doesn't make it less shocking to hear their story. This is a far different issue, far, far different... but if it's something I don't like at all then hey, yes, I'm going to be shocked. ;)

I mean, mainly I work all day in an environment of this exact corporatism of the worst most twistedly PR out the wazoo even with your own employees type, and I work all day and have to follow the rules... so how is PS fun if not only is it about extreme rules and penalities, but also full of this dehumanizing hucksterism... In my entertainment - and this is a personal decision - I try to go for the original stuff, the honest stuff, not the manufactured garbage that runneth over the world in the first place. I want an escape from the thought control and the pretense and the assholes conniving behind your back to screw you out of every penny... and PS seems to be wedded to all of that. It has some good in it but that is greatly overshadowed by the bullcrap involved, and c'mon that's not going to change. I mean hey a woman can marry a man who beats her thinking he'll change... but is that a good decision?

[Airlift]

I wonder if anyone will mirror that content before it gets pulled.

The slideshow to go with my presentation on how to successfully enjoy a SOE game is only one slide long:

http://www.clanstfu.com/images/offradar.gif

For some reason, they won't let me present it at GDC. ;)


edit >

:rofl: I missed your post, terartavrp. Playing Planetside is like marrying someone who beats you? Thought control? It's a good thing you don't take yourself too seriously :D

[MilitantB0B]

I am not suprised. Sony is in it to mae money, not to make a quality video game or game comunity. If making a good game or comunity helps them make money, they'll do it. Honestly, if I ever find a way to make money off SOE, I won't feel bad doing it. :D

[1024]

Originally posted by Hamma
Bet someone will be losing their job over that getting out

:yup:

[Knuckles]

Uhhh...

Am I the only one that thinks that this is a joke or a hoax?

[Edit: I read the thread on the message board where it, the link, came from... and I don't believe it's a hoax anymore. In that light - the document makes You go "Hmmmm...", doesn't it?]

[Bad Mojo]

Let me set things straight before everyone starts to blow this out of proportion. I see a lot of uninformed reactionary comments here.

This "vision" is not SOE's vision. It was a talk given at the GameDevlopers Conference. It's a talk about how Raph Koster (who I don't think even works on PS, but SWG instead) and Rich Vogel think companies should manage their MMOG. This talk was not given as SOE policy, but instead, was delivered as nothing more than a talk by those two guys. That's it.

Now, you might have issues with how Raph and Rich think SOE should manage their MMOGs. That's fine. But SOE isn't advocating their talk at the GDC as the "vision" for PS (or any other SOE MMOG). I even quote from Raph's web site (where these slides are hosted):

I work at Sony Online Entertainment as creative director at the Austin studio; nonetheless, all views expressed on this site are my own, and not necessarily endorsed by any former or current employer.


As for the specifics, when you read that talk, you should consider what the goal is and how Raph and Rich actually have a method to deal with problem players and a system to make a MMOG a fun game for the majority.

Again, it's just the slides from a GDC talk, it's not SOE's vision for anything. I recommend people check out Raph's home page ( http://www.legendmud.org/raph/ ) and maybe read up on him and read some of this other writings ( such as this http://www.legendmud.org/raph/gaming/laws.html ).

[Chanfan]

Bad Mojo does make some good points - it's something taken out of context, and is the view of a person, not the official policy of Sony (and indeed I caught myself when first posting it, and changed my wording to "A Sony exec�").

However, it is the ideas of two folks pretty far up the food chain at SOE, folks who are responsible for crafting SOE's "vision" for some of their games - describing how they would run things. I think it would be pretty indicative of at least some of the controlling viewpoints.

So you are right, don't blow it out of proportion, but don't understate it, either.

And yes, it's not terribly surprising, but is a good reminder on the nature of business, on appearances vs. realities, and ideals vs. ethics.

Nothing in there is super horrible (like on the oft-quoted level of car companies doing studies on predicted costs of wrongful death lawsuits vs. cost to fix a problem). Some if it does come off as less honest and ethical than I would hope.

Stealing a customer base is pretty standard, I'll admit - not too many think badly of Pepsi for trying to nab Coke drinkers.

Making a dev available so that so that players feel they have access for suggestions - seems to imply that players will only feel this way, and not actually have input. Obviously, you can't actually use everyone's input.

Changing the subject
�Don�t answer controversies, you feed them
�New info can derail a distasteful topic

That certainly comes off as political dodging and not being answerable, but it's their product - they only have to answer to themselves, their bosses, and their shareholders. That's the bottom line.

Can they be ostracized?
�Must be seen to make public effort to communicate
�You�ll need to put on a show of sorrow when you fail

Certainly there are annoying troublemakers I'd be happy to see banned, on occasion. The thing I don't like here are the implications that you don't need to try and communicate, you only need to be seen to having made an effort. But truthfully, I don't expect them to be sorry, but understand the PR reasons you might need to appear so.

Do you have excuses for banning?
�Language is the most common

This is just like a policeman citing you over for not having a litter bag in your car, or similar - it's an excuse to get what they actually want done.

I can go on with good rationalizations. There really isn't all that in there that's surprising.

Still makes me feel like crap to read it, tho'. The general tone still comes off as "fake caring if you must, do what it takes to make 'em feel good while still doing what you need to do".

I guess it's like taking a peek at how fast food is made. I know that I don't really want to know, but I probably should educate myself, so I can make more informed choices for the future.

[IDgaf]

Don't get upset about it man - get annoyed, but not upset.

Be aware of what they're doing, learn what their priorites are and learn to harness those to your effect.

You know what they want to avoid - so you know what you can do to raise a point if you feel you've been wronged or have had bad customer support.

As with anything in a capitalist society, the quickest way to see results is to withdraw funding. Money talks and bullshit walks. Just think about what you spend, what products you spend it on and how often you spend money on them.

If everyone on this planet practiced Considered Consumption - whether it be cash or using up plastic cups at the water fountain -the world'd be a lot better off.