MAX vs. sniper

[air_head1]

Will a sniper be able to take out MAX's if so how many bullets to the head would it take im planning on being a sniper i can just snipe for hours i love it but it would suck if i couldn't kill MAX's

[Sputty]

I don't think a sniper will be able to take out a MAX. Why wouldit suck if you couldn't? Should snipers kill everything, even tanks, in one hit? BTW, the sniper takes a really long time to reload so I don't think people will be sniping jkust regular soldiers like in other games.

[Navaron]

I'm pretty safe saying no. I'm sure it does *some* damage, but maybe just enough to eventually piss of the MAX, which is always a great idea. Plus, I doubt that maxes will ever be alone.

[Flashingfish]

If it was a one on one situation (which is very unlikely) then the sniper would win because he's more manouverable and can stay hidden.

[FireFrenzy]

Well I need to get some sleep horribly so I could be wrong on this, but I do believe it doesn't matter where you hit someone on their body. So where you hit the max wouldn't matter, but from what I remember they've hinted on it not being very effective on the MAX, and IMO it should be and stay that way.

[Civilian]

I agree, it should do very little to the MAX. But if a MAX is dumb enough to be walking by himself across a field, that sniper oughta' be able to shoot him 50 or 60 times and he should go down (I am assuming the MAX is so slow and heavy it would take it forever to reach its destination).

[BigHairyJohn]

MAX's have the ability to run, this running ability is supposed to make them go at about 70kmph(Vanu max could be a bit faster). this running ability means that while there running there turning speed lowers so much that it would take minutes to do a circle, so if a max was going through a field without the intention to fight he would most likley be running, something moving at 79kmph isn't very easy to hit with a single shot weapon such as the bolt driver

[Sandtaco]

Agreed, that running ability should come in handy at times... If you add the Vanu booster thingy, you could hit some great speeds!

[Civilian]

Wow, I had no idea they could move that quickly. You're right, you would probably have to be a superb sniper to even hit em'. That's actually very good news, too many times I did the march of boredom in WWIIOL, if MAX's can move that quickly, it shouldn't take 2 hrs to reach the battle. :clap:

Thanks for the info.

[Blitzkrieg]

Isn't there a MAX that has the ability to fly or give really long jumps?

[Sandtaco]

Yes, it's the Vanu MAX that has the ability to use the boosters, they can be used to jump, or boost in any which way t hat your momentum is carrying you.

[Yuyi]

Isn't there a MAX that has the ability to fly or give really long jumps?

The Vanu one.

[Hamma]

MAX is basicly a walking tank, so a sniper taking out such a big object is unlikley. I would imagine if its HP is very low it would be possible. But it isnt somthing that will happen every day.

[Delos]

IMO, i don't think a sniper should be able to take out max's easily. I think that would make them way to powerful and the fields would be covered with snipers and that would be retarded.
However, i don't think snipers should be completly worthless either. I wouldn't mind if snipers could pick off all the light armors in one or 2 shots 2 the head, thats realistic. But for them to head shot a guy in a beastly metal suit isn't.

[Toimu]

Put Reinforced Exo-Suit on a Sniper, and give him Bolt-Driver and some Anti-Vehicular Missile, he should be ok. But still, a Anti-Vehicular weapon wont do much damage to infantry (MAX).

But anyone getting hit by a missile will take cover, or run.

Best way to kill a MAX is with a MAX or tank.

[Warborn]

Originally posted by Toimu
Put Reinforced Exo-Suit on a Sniper, and give him Bolt-Driver and some Anti-Vehicular Missile, he should be ok. But still, a Anti-Vehicular weapon wont do much damage to infantry (MAX).

But anyone getting hit by a missile will take cover, or run.

Best way to kill a MAX is with a MAX or tank.


Which leads me to my next point: Sniper rifles should be restricted to Agile armor only, to prevent the above sort of lameness.

[FraBaktos]

Somehow I think an anti vehicular weapon would damage a max, I mean Hammu said they were like walking tanks. But maybe im wrong, I dunno.

[Warborn]

Well, yeah, an anti-armor missile will hurt a MAX fairly well I imagine.

[Hamma]

^ Correct, antiarmor/vehicle work well against them

[FraBaktos]

So if you think about it, it would be a good strategy to snipe a max, lure him in close, and BLAST HIM WITH A ROCKET!!!! It would make you invincible!! except if a cloaker came up right behind you.... and stabbed...

[Sandtaco]

Or the fact that that's almost impossible to do.

[Navaron]

or a nuke. We need nukes and jet packs. And prone. And beta.

Point is, you don't kill deer with bb's and you don't kill MAXz with a Bolt Driver. The way this game seems to be shaping up - every unit has a disadvatage and advatage, so you have to travel in groups - so the sniper could weed out the MAXs escorts, opening it up for an anti tank missle.

[Warborn]

It's a giant game of paper-rock-scissors.

[Toimu]

SmokeJumperPS just call me at home, and told me this new stuff about PS....

1) Infil suits can carry bolt-drivers.

2) Bolt-drives can 1 hit kill everything, even tanks. Bolt-drives are lock on target now. They are also full auto with the highest RoF in game. They can shoot threw trees, ground, and walls. You can see threw trees, ground, and walls with them. You can zoom in unlimited amount with a bolt-driver also. Bolt-drivers also have instant hit bullets, that explode and do 1 hit kills with splash damage in a 1 Km area.

3) Prone is in.

[Hamma]

(lies)

[Unknown]

You forgot to mention that you got into beta, right? :D

That is a good point though, will snipers be able to carry anti-vehicle weapons? I think not. Not too long ago Dave commented that if you had a bunch of snipers bugging you, you could hop into a mosquito and tear them up, as bolt drivers would do diddly squat against vehicle armor. That leads me to believe they wouldn't be able to carry anti-vehicle weapons as secondary...

[FraBaktos]

If the snipers are good, they could shoot the driver while hes driving the harasser.:D

[oosik]

A bolt driver can be carried by reinforced armor, so the reinforced armor could also have an AV weapon in the second rifle holster. Or if you are TR, a mini-chaingun with AP ammo. So it looks like if you want to be a sniper, better carry some extra gear. Also, how much inventory space do the bolts for the bolt-driver take up?

[Furio]

Personally I think hitting any infantry in the head with a bolt driver even a max will do SIGNIFICANT damage. It shouldn't be enough to kill him but it will do damage enough because theres not much armor in the head. It will likely be a bit like TFC when a sniper shoots the HW in the head.

[Dragoon412]

It's just going to be a balancing act of getting the power of the bolt driver in harmony with the armor that can tote it and the degree of skill required to use it well. If one out of every hundred wannabe snipers out there actually has the skills to reliably put a bullet through my head from a couple hundred meters, I wouldn't have any problems at all with the bolt driver packing a nasty punch. But if the bolt driver winds up being some rapid-fire hitscan piece of crap so that every lamer that gets his hands on it can put a round through your head, damn, I hope the thing is gimped to the point of being useless.

It's also be rather obnoxious if snipers could carry rocket launchers and the like... I hope they'd be limited in their choices of weapons, regardless of their armor. Afterall, it'd be really tough to line up a steady shot when you've got a rocket launcher strapped to your back...

[Warborn]

The devs will have really dropped the ball if Reinforced armor can use a sniper rifle, given the kind of damage that weapon was last said to be able to deal out.

[Hamma]

Man, they know what they are doing. I'd hold off on balance judgment until we get in game, then we will find out if its overpowered. If it is, they will fix it :p

[�io]

Yeah at least wait till the game is out before complaing that lakes are over-powered!! uhhh i mean snipers, yeah snipers...

[NapalmEnima]

To return to the original topic of this thread, Sniper vs MAX:

Conclusion: Sniper dies horribly.


Events:
1) Sniper bounces a round of the back of the MAX's head. Now he's pissed, and he knows there's a sniper out there. :confused:

2) Sniper bounces a round off the front of the MAX's head. Now the MAX knows where the sniper is. :mad:

3) MAX lines up and SPRINTS towards the soon to be ex-sniper, at around 70kph, weaving what little it can. :groovy:

4) Sniper fires a couple more times, and might even hit once. This includes a last desperate attempt at a point-blank anti-vehicular shot, which may or may not hit. :eek:

5) MAX begins saturation fire of area around sniper while charging, missing a lot, but making the sniper wet their pants. :scared:

6) MAX runs over poor sniper, grinding them into a sticky red goo. :evil:


7) MAX fires horrifically powerful weaponry into red puddle repeatedly. :P~

8) MAX defecates in newly formed crater. :ugh:

9) MAX heads back to base to hit a medical terminal, mostly for a new paint job. :cool:

10) Sniper respawns, and uses said newly formed crater for improved cover. Snipers aren't too bright. :doh:

11) GOTO 1

This scenary might change based on the MAX's empire. A vanu wouldn't get hit as much (bouncy bouncy), while an NC would take the second hit (and possibly the first) to it's shields. And if they can sprint and shield at the same time? Basically no damage.

Of course, the sniper might hop in a nearby Lightening or Reaver as soon as the max charges (radically turning the tables) or he might have a couple friends out of site, or, or, or.

But my scenario is funnier, so that's how it will go. I said so.

Actually, against a MAX, a J. Random Grunt might have better luck with an assault rifle loaded with AP rounds, and a magnification implant (unless they're TR, in which case they can use the slot for something else, yay cycler!). Short, controlled bursts. Might even be able to empty a couple clips before they die. Or an anti-vehicular weapon. I doubt a max would fare too well against guided missiles (wire-guided or fire-n-forget). :twisted: A Lancer would be good too.

A bolt driver is NOT the weapon of choice against a max. Use something else. MAX's are vehicles with legs. Don't use anti-personnel weapons against them. A bolt driver is an anti-personnel weapon.

Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.

And yes, that was way too many smilies.

[Kaikou]

lol...sniper rifles should be weak...namely because the sniper is WAY off from the battle taking pot shots at stuff...if they were powerful, then the sniper gets to become a huge annoyance because they are far from danger as well as a big danger themselves...in short.....

Those of you who feel the sniper rifle should do more than 15%-20% damage on a normally armored soldier, go back to C&C Renegades where it IS in fact possible to kill a tank in 3 or 4 shots from a sniper rifle...

[SandTrout]

You tend to forget that even if a Reinforced armor COULD carry a bolt-driver and rocket launcher(lets say a striker), they would be compleatly screwed in a fight against agile or assault-equiped reinforced armor because the rocket launchers likely wont do terrible splash damage, and your cone of fire with the BD while didgeing bullets will be utter crap.

I think a better annalogy for the BD vs MAX is trying to kill a bear with a .22 single shot rifle. If you get enough shots in, he'll eventualy die, but he'll get to you and end your miserable life before you can fire that many rounds. Also, most MAXes wont be solo and you'll have to deal with his buddys if you open fire on him first.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

how many shots would a MAX take from a Lancer me wonders :rolleyes: :chomp:

[DiosT]

what what what?


immune to sniper fire because it's a walking tank, but then immune to anti-vehicle weapons because it's a unit???


My rection: wtf?


lol... it's not a "walkign tank", bolt driver vs. 6 inches of steel = useless, chance of hitting people inside = nill, even if the projectile penetrates it still has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting(based on person to tank ratio)...


I'd think Bolt driver's could very logically hurt a MAX... think about it.. it's a EXO suit, NOT a vehicle, when that bolt driver hits that MAX, it's not goign anywhere but INTO that person's armor and/or the PILOT!


Yes, it does have a lot of armor, no it shouldnt'd 1-3 shot kill a MAX.. but 10+ shots i think would be rediculous, I couldnt se the MAX"s having more then 3 inches of armor, and dobut they'll have that much, or even vehicle-quality metals--but possible...

I think something like 6-10 shots is fair for taking out a MAX, I'll leave it up to the dev's...


MAX's are NOT vehicles.. they are men in HEAVY POWER ARMOR... that bullet when it hit's WILL be noticed by the pilot, it's less noticeable when your piloting a 10-20 ton tank, but in a 1-ton suit, he'll feel it.. I'd actually like to see a 'stunning' effect on unist when they are shot, of course, the more armored, the less effect... but still...

my point: Power armor/exo suit are not tanks, they should feel the bolt driver's bullet--before you flame me ya better read my full agrument....

[DiosT]

Those of you who feel the sniper rifle should do more than 15%-20% damage on a normally armored soldier, go back to C&C Renegades where it IS in fact possible to kill a tank in 3 or 4 shots from a sniper rifle...



ummm.. big difference between <font size=+2>1/10th inch</font> armor & <font size=+2>6 inches</font> of armor bud....

I dont think anyone said snipers should take out tanks, but in the real world, snipers do in fact do 1-shot kills on enemy infantry, I'd think the game would be completely unreal and wouldnt bother buying it if a sniper couldnt 1-shot 1-kill someone in friggin cloth armor(None), which is basically the light armor... those people would be fools to expose themselves...


medium armor.. it's still NOT that much armor... maybe 1/4 inch of armor, that's nice for low-caliber bullets, and will dampen the effects, yes.... but we're talkign the 'most powerful' carried weapon, I think if the sniper rifle is 1 shot every 5-10 seconds, it'd be fair to ask 2-3 shots kill a medium unit, even if they get 'free' pop-shots, getting 2-3 'free pop-shots' without the person hiding is very difficult... why should 2 bullets from some automatic weapon do more damage then a sniper rifle? when the automatic rifle gets off 2 shots in 1/10th a second?

just because sniping is 'cheap' doesnt mean it should be fucked over... those of you who played tribes & hate snipers from that, it's already set up so it takes 2 sniper shots to kill you... now, in tribes the refire rate was like .5-1 second, in PS, it's gonnabe 3-10seconds+.... so you'll have lots of time to run and hide...


reinforced armor.. hey thats gettign to some good armor.. but still not 'invincible'... normally a sniper would go for the head on an armored target, but since there is no 'head' shots, i dont think 4-5 shots is unresonable(keep in mind this will take about a MINUTE to do... now pull otu your friggin watches and watch a minute pass, and calm down and THINK before you complain)

and for MAX's.. yes.. these guys are armored... but... not armored like a Tank is, their armor is much thinner! and a high-caliber projectile is going to dent that armor well, and the pilot will feel it.. the armor is around the pilot remember, he's not sittign 'inside' the MAX piloting it like a tank pilot would... Now, 6-10 shots to take out a MAX would be reasonable, keep in mind this will take forever to pull off, and a runnign MAX suit will be logn gone before the sniper even does 40% damage(assumign he's a good sniper)


I wish they'd give the re-load times on the bolt driver, would really help

[cujoman39]

So all of you peple are saying that MAX's are going to be so stong that normal bullets can't hurt them and there infintry so anti vehical weapons wont do to much damage , how are you suposed to bring them down without shoving a nuke up his tailpipe???

plus bolt drivers are going to do good damage to MAX's because its a piece of metal flying at the speed of light that will go throw a tank even of its a tank rapped around an infentry men(im talking about MAX's).

A sniper should be able to drop a lone MAX if hes good!!!!!!!!:sniper:

[cujoman39]

yeah if someone was shot in the head with a bolt driver the concution(excuse my spelling) would knock him on his back and probably kill him even if it didn't go threw.

[Warborn]

Why are you people trying to use realism and logic to support your argument? Game design supercedes all else, including realism. Which is why I say that, given the size of a MAX and how easy it'd be to hit from a distance, and given the specialized nature of a sniper rifle as anti-infantry, a sniper doing damage to a MAX would likely be bad for gameplay, as there are going to be tons and tons of snipers in PS without a doubt, given the power that weapon seems to be set to be given, so a guy in MAX armor would simply be a walking bullet sponge.

And no, I don't want to hear about how a projectile with X velocity could easily blow through Y inches of steel or whatever. It doesn't matter.

[Sandtaco]

Realism to us shouldn't pertain to the game. The game is in the fututre (not sure how far) but things change :p

[�io]

/me pats himself on the back for not joining another sniper debate. :p

[NapalmEnima]

Who said anti-vehicular weapons won't work on a MAX? I sure didn't.

I *tried* to say just the opposite. The dev's are also calling them "anti-armor" weapons, for obvious reasons.

So cram a decimator in that MAX's face. See how they like it. You probably still won't 1-shot them ('cept maybe the vanu, and good luck hitting them), but they sure will think twice about getting that close.

Lancers, phonixes, strikers... all goot anti-max weaponry... as is any weapon that can fire anti-armor projectiles (energy or otherwise).

But energy weapons are for pansies. Real men shoot lead.

[Sputty]

Originally posted by NapalmEnima

But energy weapons are for pansies. Real men shoot lead.
Exactly

[�io]

:rolleyes:

[Kaikou]

It may be fair if the sniper can take a MAX out in 10 shots...IF the reload time is somewhere around 10 seconds or so...Take T2 for example...the sniper rifle is well balanced, because sure, you can shoot at a heavy a couple times and damage them pretty badly, but it requires both skill and time to hit the heavy, and in that time the heavy is most likely gonna reach his destination. If the sniper rifle were able to take a MAX out effectively, not to mention all other types of armors (excluding vehicles) what gun do you think at least 80% of the community would carry? Snipers are going to be annoying enough, we don't need 80% of the community being snipers because its overpowered...It happens in every game, in the AC2 beta, human mages were very overpowered, which resulted in 90% of the people in beta being....human mages.

[Sputty]

True, hopefully the only people that will be snipers are the people who understand the use of being one and they don't just want to try to get as many kills as possible just to annoy the grunts.

[Airlift]

If you guys think snipers are bad, wait till you see what they did to druids.

[Kaikou]

I'm sure there will be plenty of snipers who are snipers just because they aren't in as much danger as a grunt or virtually any other role is...I suppose thats just how it goes though, I just hope it requires skill for a sniper to stay alive, rather than pick an area, and sit in it for awhile picking people off with virtually no danger to be alert for...

[SandTrout]

Easy anti-sniper stratagy for _organized_ outfits.

:Grunt A reports sniper fire from Sniper B on his squad to Commander C.

:Commander C looks at map and finds Squadron C of Reavers and tells them of Grunt A's sittuation.

:Squadron D finds Grunt A's squad, and spams the sniper's location or possible locations with rockets.

:Grunt A's squad moves close to sniper's location while bombardment is going on, and atacks when bombardment ends.

:Grunt A finds Sniper B and unloads a clip of ammo into his head.


Or someone in a squad carries a thrumper to shoot from behind covver...

[cujoman39]

all im say is that a bolt driver is going to do good damage to any thing man or tank and its going to probably end up doing about 20% to maxs because a bolt driver has a slow reload time.

If you have ever played Red Faction 1 and used a rail driver which is the same thing, you would not disagree with it being so powerful because the guy opened the breach, manually placed a bolt in the breach of the gun, closed it and then he was ready to fire again. The whole process only took about 6 secends. If a gun takes that long to reload better do some good damage.

The only sniper rifle in the game should be like a slow firing AWP(the ultimate gun in counter strike) and not like the scout(a rediculacly under powered sniper rifle from counter strike), if a sniper rifle is weak you might as well use a pistol or throw a rock.

[Sputty]

Why would a sniper rifle pierce armor on a MAX? If so, why not allow it to take out tanks. They both have strong armor.

[Sputty]

Originally posted by Kaikou
I'm sure there will be plenty of snipers who are snipers just because they aren't in as much danger as a grunt or virtually any other role is...I suppose thats just how it goes though, I just hope it requires skill for a sniper to stay alive, rather than pick an area, and sit in it for awhile picking people off with virtually no danger to be alert for...
That's exactly what I think most people want which would finally help make the sniper not the overpowered weapon of every FPS ever.

[cujoman39]

the bolt driver is going to hurt tanks it is listed as a anti armor weapon.

[Sputty]

Originally posted by cujoman39
the bolt driver is going to hurt tanks it is listed as a anti armor weapon.
Where is it listed?

[Sputty]

I've checked both PSU and the PS official site and it doesn't say(they have the same stuff) anywhere that it's anti-armor.

[Blitzkrieg]

Soooo, summing it all up, the sniper has no (or little) chance against the MAX, right? Right!
Ok! That's done with. :brow:

[Sputty]

Yeah, so far that's what it seems.

[Validuz]

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg
Isn't there a MAX that has the ability to fly or give really long jumps?

Out of curiousity, is your sig big enough???

[Sputty]

Gotta love animations everywhere....

[Hamma]

We will be enforcing sig restrictions a bit more in the future heh, some people have modems. Well, not that many. But the lower the load time the better.

[Validuz]

Originally posted by Hamma
We will be enforcing sig restrictions a bit more in the future heh, some people have modems. Well, not that many. But the lower the load time the better.

Im not really talking about the size in Bytes, Im talking about the size in pixels. His sig takes up a whole page by itself.

[�io]

It should be smaller in pixels and size. :)

[Hamma]

We will be watching all of those things.

[NoSurrender]

OK Kakiou i played renegade and i still do and u cannot kill a tank with a sniper rifle unless u play single player Super easy n00barific mode so plz dont insult renegade;)

[HollandHup]

Renegade rocks, let that be a fact :)

Snipers can take down quite easy:
NOD Attack Heli, NOD Artillery and NOD Buggy,
GDI Orca (Heli), GDI MRLS, GDI Humvee.

Which isn't all that bad, cause the artilery/MLRS would either be unaffortable or way too powerful... same goes for choppers. Snipers are pretty much the only defence against chopper, altho the Nod black hands kick ass there too.

Snipers are USELESS against:
NOD Stealth Tank, NOD light tank, NOD Flame Tank, NOD APC,
GDI Medium Tank, GDI Mammoth Tank, GDI APC
All Buildings, Harvesters

[NoSurrender]

thnx holland i was too lazy to mention those facts but i think that a MAX should be just annoyed by snipers because then snipers would be to strong and i have something 2 tell all vanu i was on official planetside forums and alota vanu are gonna clock well dont they said when u power up your knife which is a 1 hit kill it makes noise and if your enemies have darkvision or hearing implant your dead SO VANU DONT ALL JUST WEARING CLOAKING OTHER WISE U LOST YOURSELF A PILOT!!!!!!

[Blitzkrieg]

Originally posted by Hamma
We will be enforcing sig restrictions a bit more in the future heh, some people have modems. Well, not that many. But the lower the load time the better.

:rolleyes: :D
I'll get a smaller one

[Sandtaco]

thnx holland i was too lazy to mention those facts but i think that a MAX should be just annoyed by snipers because then snipers would be to strong and i have something 2 tell all vanu i was on official planetside forums and alota vanu are gonna clock well dont they said when u power up your knife which is a 1 hit kill it makes noise and if your enemies have darkvision or hearing implant your dead SO VANU DONT ALL JUST WEARING CLOAKING OTHER WISE U LOST YOURSELF A PILOT!!!!!! Use sentences... your post shows the stupidity of many peeps on the official forums.

[�io]

Sandtaco let him have his fun. Do like me, be the bigger person, if the TR and NC need to make lame jokes about VS like "they are gay purple" or "all snipers and/or cloakers" let them, when the time comes they will realize their mistake. :)

[Toimu]

I know you are, but what am I? :P~

[SandTrout]

Same as everyone saying the NC will get owned at range Dio?

[�io]

Hey don't look at me, i never talked bad about anyone yet (well maybe once or twice to defend the VS). I'm actually waiting till the game is out before talking trash. :p

[Unknown]

I'm not 100% sure about this but I think I read somewhere that there will be an indicator telling you where shots are coming from (unless it's the suppressor doing the shooting I would assume). So a sniper shouldn't be too extremely hard to find once they fire a shot as that would give away their position, or at least the general direction they're in.

Again, I'm not totally sure about this, I'll look for a link...

[DevilWhiskey]

A sniper who stays in the same spot for more than 3 shots is a dead sniper.

DW

[BigTony]

They should really implant headshots in the game and allow you to zoom in on the cockpit of lets say a mosquito, shoot through the glass and hit the pilot, that would be pwn. Oh and by the way the scout pwns in cstrike, the difference between it and the awp is that you can actually MOVE with it...yea then it only takes 2 hits to kill them while your arent killed in the process...yea well thats my 2 1/2 cents for ya. I just cant wait to pilot the galaxy :bouncy:

"Hello folks, this is your captain speaking, welcom aboard flight 754, non-stop flight to the pit of hell. Shortly after takeoff, our waitresses will be coming around and handing out free complimentary drinks. we will serve lunch at noon and our inflight movie will be In Like Flint. Our ETA will be about 6 hours so sit back and relax and have a wonderful time."

Heh most people dont even want to get in a car with me in Halo so who knows what will happen in PS :-D

[Unknown]

Found it:
"When taking hits are there directional indicators to tell you where your being hit from?

Yes. A red triangle appears by the sides of you aiming reticle." -PSI's Unofficial FAQ(http://www.planetside.info/ResourceCP/FAQs/PS-FAQ.shtml)