Excuse for no platoons?

[1024]

Anyone know SOEs excuse for not implementing platoons? Doesn't seem like it woud take that much work... :rolleyes:

[MercFox1]

No

It could really be just a temporary outfit type thing. With a list of platoon members on the left top.

[shinken]

3 squads under one commander shouldnt be that hard, probably just lazy or working on somthing more important, mabye lag

[Navaron]

Nah, I bet they'll hold off on platoons till they don't have any other "exclusive content" to take your money with, then let that be the thing they put out that month.

[MercFox1]

Yeah...since it is the MOST popular idea out there.

PS: I love your Calvin avatar Nav. Hobbes r0x0rz j00!!!11!

[Katanaboy]

They're busy giving us support for 3000x800 resolution...

[1024]

Who the fuck has a monitor 3000x800???? thats like a monitor that looks like a shoebox!!!

[Navaron]

Originally posted by Katanaboy
They're busy giving us support for 3000x800 resolution...


http://bohica.planetside-universe.com/images/forumImages/owned_raidersBucks.jpg

Nice Shot!

[Hamma]

They underestimated how much people want platoons imo.

[1024]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
http://bohica.planetside-universe.com/images/forumImages/owned_raidersBucks.jpg

Nice Shot!

And i still say...

Originally posted by 1024
Who the fuck has a monitor 3000x800???? thats like a monitor that looks like a shoebox!!!

Originally posted by Hamma
They underestimated how much people want platoons imo.

OOO ya. Anyone know if theres a petition for platoons to be implemented started on the OF yet?

[Doppler]

Personaly I dont see platoons as such a big deal, a convenience yes, but on the whole not that necissary for success. It's not like the tactical display gives a lot of oportunitys for squad management anyway. Ooh i can drop waypoints and oooooh i can drop squigleys on the map.

[Happy lil Elf]

Assuming I can see everyone in my platoon on the map, I want them. Being able to see where all three of your outfits squads that are on are is really useful, especially when you need a gunner ;) Even if you can't see them on the map as an engy I'd love to be able to see my fellow platoon members' armor level.

*edit*

Wait I just read where you said dropping waypoints isn't all that useful for directing a squad. You're kidding right?

[Setith]

Assuming I can see everyone in my platoon on the map, I want them.

I'd be forced to agree with that. Otherwise, I don't really see a use for platoons. My outfit uses TS mainly to support their operations so maybe thats why, but othewise... I dunno. :confused:

[Arakiel]

Too busy quitting at noon and taking the company visa to the strip club.

[Doppler]

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
Assuming I can see everyone in my platoon on the map, I want them. Being able to see where all three of your outfits squads that are on are is really useful, especially when you need a gunner ;) Even if you can't see them on the map as an engy I'd love to be able to see my fellow platoon members' armor level.

*edit*

Wait I just read where you said dropping waypoints isn't all that useful for directing a squad. You're kidding right?

I need to qualify and 'splain myself I see. WPs are helpfull in a general sense, roughly the effectiveness of handing a group of fun loving GIs a gernade launcher, a couple of M16's and a 60 and telling them. "Take the city of um-hella-no." What i want to be able to do is tell my GIs to go into the city through the backroads and kill ever left handed red head.

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by 1024
Anyone know SOEs excuse for not implementing platoons? Doesn't seem like it woud take that much work...

Who is going to host a teamspeak server for 29 other people?

Will this mean adding a new channel and channel macro?

Who can add people to the platoon?

Who can kick people out of the platoon?

Who can kick a squad out of a platoon?

Will there be a platoon "leader"?

Will the platoon leader get more CXP than a squad leader?

Do Squad Leaders still get CXP? Or BXP?

Can SL's still set waypoints in a platoon?

Are there platoon WPs and squad WPs?

Do the platoon WPs look different?

Can platoons see all the troops on their map?

How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.

Once you have all these questions answered in a way that is satisfactory to not only yourself but to the majority of people who pay for a monthly subscription, you need to code it, and test it and re-test it. It's not like they can just flip a switch and platoons are in the game.

[MaestroBabeh]

Who is going to host a teamspeak server for 29 other people?

Our outfits dedicated TS server already has 3 individual squad channels, and a bind to whisper to all squad leaders. Thats all you need. :D

Squad members don't need to communicate between other squads within the platoon, thats the leaders job to communicate between the other leaders.

So you would have the same 3 seperate squad channels, but allow the 3 squad leaders to communicate thru whispers.

Will this mean adding a new channel and channel macro?

Likely, at least for the whisper.

Who can add people to the platoon?
Squad leaders invite members into their own squad, functioning as per usual.

The Platoon leader (defined as the squad leader who created the platoon) can invite other squad leaders into the Platoon, to a maximum of 2 others.

Who can kick people out of the platoon?
The Platoon Leader can kick other squad leaders, plus members of his own squad. The Squad leaders can add and remove members of their squad as per usual.

Who can kick a squad out of a platoon?
See above.

Will there be a platoon "leader"?
Yes, the person who creates the platoon. Eg, he invites 1 or 2 other squad leaders to his platoon.

Will the platoon leader get more CXP than a squad leader?
CEP will be shared equally between Squad Leaders, with a bonus boost similar to the BEP sharing between squad members.

This means that in order to maximise CEP, squads within the platoon should be at different bases, because the CEP would be divided. This is important as CEP is already difficult to accumulate. Squads in the same base at the same time would not be maximising CEP potential. So perhaps, CEP should be kept at an individual squad level, not shared at all...

Do Squad Leaders still get CXP? Or BXP?
CEP.

Can SL's still set waypoints in a platoon?
There will be Squad waypoints, and platoon waypoints. How these are implemented I wouldnt care to guess. Either the whole platoon gets to see them, or just the SLs?

Are there platoon WPs and squad WPs?
See above.

Do the platoon WPs look different?
It would make sense....

Can platoons see all the troops on their map?
I think definately the platoon leader should see them all, and SLs possibly. Other members seeing would be useful too, for gal pilots etc. So I think it should be a toggle option.

How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.
Not sure, but if they are toggleable (see above) then it would still work. Perhaps different colours for platoon members. Blue numbers for squad, and green Xs for platoon? With green Ls for other squad leaders.?

It's not like they can just flip a switch and platoons are in the game.
No, but it was one of the things that was defined and supposed to be added during closed beta...

[Bad Mojo]

Yay, you managed to answer all my questions in a way that showed that you can't solve all the problems easily and without a lot of work. Let me summarize:

1) Someone is going to have to suck up to hosting a TS server for 30 people on their cable modem using the built in TS server in PS.

2) Whisper ability will have to be added to PS's TS server and client.

3) New commands for creating and manipulating platoons need to be added along with new panels to display the platoon members and various squad members. This includes invites, kicks, etc. New panels to show platoon invites to other squad leaders and new commands to accept those invites. Everything has a /commands and a GUI panel to represent the response. These new panels may have to be translated to other languages and verified.

4) Prove that the CEP distribution system is accepted by a majority of the paying subscribers.

5) You never really came up with a good WP solution or a troop map representation.

Platoons aren't easy. As a coder myself I understand the non-trivial nature of adding them to the game. They are also my personal favorite "want it in PS" thing. I also don't recall (even in the beta) platoons being promised or us being told platoons were "simple" by the developers.

I, personally, get a little miffed with people thinking that adding platoons is some trivial thing that wouldn't take 5 minutes to throw into the code. You don't own the code, you can't see the code, you don't know what change record management system SOE is using so no one here knows what's really involved in making platoons a reality that we can all enjoy.

[MaestroBabeh]

1) Someone is going to have to suck up to hosting a TS server for 30 people on their cable modem using the built in TS server in PS.

Not what I suggested...

I said you would still have squads with their seperate in-game voice servers, but you also have some kind of whisper ability between SLs.

This IMO will prove too much work. ANd hosting 30 peeps from one connection is not viable.

What I believe will happen is that Squad Leaders will communicate via a /platoon chat channel (which already exists) and relay any informaiton to their own squad thru what ever means they have (voice or /squad chat)

2) Whisper ability will have to be added to PS's TS server and client.

Yup.

3) New commands for creating and manipulating platoons need to be added along with new panels to display the platoon members and various squad members. This includes invites, kicks, etc. New panels to show platoon invites to other squad leaders and new commands to accept those invites. Everything has a /commands and a GUI panel to represent the response. These new panels may have to be translated to other languages and verified.

You don't need to display platoon members on everyones screen... you only need to see your own squad on the top bar... A platoon GUI would be needed however, as you say for creating, inviting.

4) Prove that the CEP distribution system is accepted by a majority of the paying subscribers.

5) You never really came up with a good WP solution or a troop map representation.

As I previously suggested, WPs would be set by Squad leaders, as per usual. Platoon WPs would be set by the Platoon Leader, and could be toggleable.


Platoons aren't easy. As a coder myself I understand the non-trivial nature of adding them to the game. They are also my personal favorite "want it in PS" thing. I also don't recall (even in the beta) platoons being promised or us being told platoons were "simple" by the developers.


Niether did I, but they we where told they would be added before release.

I am a "coder" (actually Im a programmer, coding is for babies and monkeys) myself also.

I, personally, get a little miffed with people thinking that adding platoons is some trivial thing that wouldn't take 5 minutes to throw into the code. You don't own the code, you can't see the code, you don't know what change record management system SOE is using so no one here knows what's really involved in making platoons a reality that we can all enjoy.

I dont recall anyone thinking they *would* be trivial. However, they where in the original design of the game, and therefore should have been ready before release, and before new, undesigned content was concieved and proved (eg the liberator).

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by MaestroBabeh

I dont recall anyone thinking they *would* be trivial. However, they where in the original design of the game, and therefore should have been ready before release, and before new, undesigned content was concieved and proved (eg the liberator).

So, if it was in the "original design", it must be easier than new content? That's not a reasonable assumption. Platoons have a more far reaching impact on the game and the code than adding a vehicle does. It's quite possible that until recently, the reason platoons have not been put in the game is the fact that all the "questions" have not been answered to the complete satisfaction of the developers and game designers. There may be issues that we (as players) are not aware of.

Anyways, I want platoons but I'll not complain if they take 6 months to add.

[PR24]

Bad MoJo WTF are you defending SOE?

SOE was "supposed" to add Platoons in the release of PS yet they never did. 2 months later there is still no speak of it.

They have added some pretty dumb shit like the 3000x800 res when they could be adding what the community that pays wants.
Adding vehicles should come AFTER the simple game play fixes. The memory leak is still there, Platoons are not added, players are bored as hell of the game thats why servers are starting to empty out.

They (SOE) are digging their own grave. PS will fail is they refuse to listen to what the community wants and needs.

[PR24]

Originally posted by Bad Mojo

I'll not complain if they take 6 months to add.

Wait that long and you will get your platoons, in a thing called an " Expansion pack".

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by PR24
Bad MoJo WTF are you defending SOE?

SOE was "supposed" to add Platoons in the release of PS yet they never did. 2 months later there is still no speak of it.


Show me where SOE promised you platoons and I will gladly agree they have falen down on their agreement.


They (SOE) are digging their own grave. PS will fail is they refuse to listen to what the community wants and needs.

You're still playing PS, I gather?

[PR24]

Originally posted by Bad Mojo

You're still playing PS, I gather?

No

I am disappointed with the game and got bored with it. I jumped in for 1 hour last night and let. Prior to that I had not played in 2 weeks.

As for finding where Dave G said there would be Platoons in the release i will have to search but I know people here remember him saying this.

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by PR24
No

I am disappointed with the game and got bored with it. I jumped in for 1 hour last night and let. Prior to that I had not played in 2 weeks.


As long as you pay for your account but don't play, more bandwidth and server resources for me. Thanks for that. :)

[PR24]

Originally posted by Bad Mojo
As long as you pay for your account but don't play, more bandwidth and server resources for me. Thanks for that. :)

Well I won't be paying for next month so don't go jerking off yet :rofl:

[Happy lil Elf]

Who is going to host a teamspeak server for 29 other people?

Whoever wants to. Lots won't but then again lots don't want to host a TS channel for 10 people as it stands right now.

Will this mean adding a new channel and channel macro?

Yes.

Who can add people to the platoon?

Squad leaders assuming they have a spot open in their squad or the platoon leader if he has a spot open in his.

Who can kick people out of the platoon?

Platoon leader can kick individuals or whole squads. Squad leaders can kick from their own squad.

Who can kick a squad out of a platoon?

Platoon leader

Will there be a platoon "leader"?

Yes, whoever starts the platoon.

Will the platoon leader get more CXP than a squad leader?

No.

Do Squad Leaders still get CXP? Or BXP?

CEP

Can SL's still set waypoints in a platoon?

Yes.

Are there platoon WPs and squad WPs?

Yes.

Do the platoon WPs look different?

Yes.

Can platoons see all the troops on their map?

Yes, assuming you mean all players in their platoon.

How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.

Not really and if it is too large, shrink the number.

Once you have all these questions answered in a way that is satisfactory to not only yourself but to the majority of people who pay for a monthly subscription

Not really feasable when it hasn't even been brought to the test server yet.

you need to code it,

This is why we pay SOE and SOE pays programmers

and test it and re-test it.

We have the test server now. Testing it is really a part of coding it for the most part. The little bugs get worked out on the test server.
It's not like they can just flip a switch and platoons are in the game.

Obviously they can't just flip a switch but since it's been one of the, if not the, most anticipated features since Beta, hell one of the founding ideas of my outfit was 3 platoons working in harmony, they've had ample time to do all of the above.

[Ghoest9]

There are many viable ways to implement this.

A simple idea that would be better than what we have.

All squads that are made up of 1 outfit only on a continet would share exp. Cep would be the same as it always was.

If you dont want to share you could solo or join a mixed squad - pretty simple.

Maybe the more complicated platoons could work fine - but this would be simple and a big improvement.

[1024]

Originally posted by Bad Mojo
How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.


THrough color coding. They talked about this in...i forgot. i think the voice interview a while back. They said that each squad would keep their #'s, but have a different color.

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf

Obviously they can't just flip a switch but since it's been one of the, if not the, most anticipated features since Beta, hell one of the founding ideas of my outfit was 3 platoons working in harmony, they've had ample time to do all of the above.

How anticipted it is doesn't make it any more or less difficult to add to the game.

How you designed your outfit doesn't make platoons any more or less difficult to add to the game.

And I'm really curious how you know that the PS dev team has had plenty of time to add it? Do you work there? Can you see them twiddling their thumbs and saying, "Let's add platoons later, I'm tired of working."?

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by 1024
THrough color coding. They talked about this in...i forgot. i think the voice interview a while back. They said that each squad would keep their #'s, but have a different color.

This sounds like the best solution. But who knows. There are colorblind people who play. :)

[Happy lil Elf]

How anticipted it is doesn't make it any more or less difficult to add to the game.

Never said it was my dear boy, just that it would be more appreciated than virtually any other addition. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though ;)

How you designed your outfit doesn't make platoons any more or less difficult to add to the game.

Never said that either, only gave an example of how long people have been waiting on this feature. Thanks again for trying to make it seem like I said something I didn't.

And I'm really curious how you know that the PS dev team has had plenty of time to add it? Do you work there? Can you see them twiddling their thumbs and saying, "Let's add platoons later, I'm tired of working."?

Did I ever say that either? No didn't think so. Way to assume things Mojo! You get a cookie :) What I said was they've had ample time to add this feature, all of beta and almost two months since. It was said it would be in by release and then one mentioned once or twice since release.

Six months is a long time to add a feature Mojo, quit pretending it's not. Yes adding platoons is tricky. So is programming a MMOFPS. Trickiness and/or difficulty are not excuses. How tricky do you think adding cones of fire was? Or flight physics? Or vehicle physics? Or getting V-pads to work? Or designing maps that large that flow well?

Making a game is tough. That's not an excuse for saying something will be in by release and then still having it missing almost 2 months after release. Where is my quote on that? I dunno, where are the Beta boards?

But adding a bomber that needed almost no balancing before it was ready to go live was easy right? No wait that's right you called it "adding a vehicle".

In short, Shhh. Adding platoons is not some monumental task of doom.

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf

In short, Shhh. Adding platoons is not some monumental task of doom.

I'll be sure to play your MMOG. When is it going to be released?

Regardless. The point is that platoons are a great feature that everyone wants. The tide is turning and people are starting to expect things that SOE or the Devs didn't promise. Which means that somehwere, someone's expectations have been set too high. Which is why I would like people to understand the ramifications of adding platoons, since some people readily trivialize it. Platoons are not easy. Platoons are on the way. That's all there is to the issue. Platoons aren't "late".

[Happy lil Elf]

Ok the "Shh" comment was meant to be good natured but I guess I'lll play along.

I'll be sure to play your MMOG. When is it going to be released?

Ditto, although if your MMO takes this long to impliment something you claimed would be in on release or "shortly thereafter" I probably won't pick it up ;)

I understand what you're trying to say. The problem is you're wrong. We were told, in beta, that platoons would be in by release. Then it changed to shortly after release. Now it's hardly mentioned at all, at least by the Devs. No I can't quote that because the beta forums are, unfortunately, no longer in existance along with all the Dev posts that they contained.

No adding platoons isn't some somiple swtich flip. But it's also not the hardest thing that's faced this Dev team and they've devoured problems in adding content before. What I tihnk people would like to see is the Devs devour the problems in adding this and get it in as soon as possible.

The players do expect things. For the most part though those things are things the Devs said they would be giving to us.

[Bad Mojo]

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
Ditto, although if your MMO takes this long to impliment something you claimed would be in on release or "shortly thereafter" I probably won't pick it up ;)

As I've said before, I'll totally agree that platoons are long overdue and the dev team has been shirking it's promises if one person can provide me with some proof that this promise was made. I've looked in the official forums, I was in the open beta, I've never seen or heard from anyone other than players that this was promised.

[Happy lil Elf]

Right. But who would you hear it from? The Devs aren't about to say "Yeah, so remember when we said we'd have Platoons in by launch? Well the thing is we're not gonna, and it's going to be awhile before we're even close to putting them in.".

There are people who remember when they said they'd have them in by launch, they're arguing with you right now ;) Although technically what I believe was said was something ot the effect of "We plan to have platoons implimented by launch and I see no reason why they won't be.". Now I know you're about to say "Yeah, that's hardly a promise" but keep in mind when using your beta tester Dev-English translator, that's about as close to a promise as a Dev will make :p

I think what annoys most of us is we don't get any updates on the progress they're making. A simple "Some issues keep cropping up with Platoons and we want to squash them before they go in" would go a long way. I'd rather hear about what they're working on rather than the Thresher is getting a boost. I think the problem is Spork really doesn't want to comment on anything until he's basically positive that something is going to change. With how much is planned yet to come it would be really nice to get some real updates on how those aspects are coming instead of simply being told what's in the next patch.

Obviously there are reasons we're kept in the dark to some degree but that doesn't change the fact some more updates would be nice.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Bad Mojo
Show me where SOE promised you platoons and I will gladly agree they have falen down on their agreement.




This happened way back in beta.

[Deadfist]

Platoons would be really nice. I hope it's coming soon, and not just in the exp. Give the Dev team credit, they've been real busy putting in lib/skyguard/balance changes/upcoming medic love.

[AsylumX]

EverQuest anyone?

Considering there's not a whole lot of difference between the grouping in EQ and in PS (minor changes as far as looks go, and i wouldn't think very major ones in the programming either). They have a raid feature in EQ, 12 groups can get together, and it's like many others said, Platoon Leader will have SLs invite their squad and invite them into the platoon, bxp would be shared and all that crap, just use most of the ideas from there. Sure those questions still stand (but honestly they aren't that hard to answer and i don't think it would be extremely difficult to answer any questions that would have an effect on the gameplay, if there's a community outrage for something, change it).

Now...to the main argument, programming the platoons in. SoE is messy as hell when it comes to programming, and most of the time when they release expansions it does include things that were supposed to be implemented months, or even years ago. I've read through EQ forums excessively, and although i'm not going to dig through old posts (i don't want to start playing that game again, lol) and i've seen many experienced players, associated with devs, say that instead of modifying code that's been there already, they code over it...add another function or two at the bottom and change what something does. This causes major glitches in gameplay and they usually aren't fixed for a week or two. Then those fixes cause more problems and so on. Don't be surprised if you never see platoons, or don't see them for a year or two, and when they're implimented expect to see some major problems for the first month or two.

I haven't played PS yet, so if any of my views are skewed, correct me on them and i'll see if i can maintain some of my arguments. Just going on some of my previous experience with Old Verant/SoE, and what i've read on these forums as far as the exp and grouping/squad system works.

Just my 2 cents

AsylumX

edit: SoE has a really bad rep for horrible customer service, and horrible game designs and balance after release. Lots of "lies" and misrepresentation goes on, so don't be surprised. As much as i hate SoE i'll still get PS due to what people say about it. As bad as the company is, MMO games are way too addictive.

[1024]

Ok i idndt read any of these last essays, becasue i see as this:

They said they were going to have platoons even before they released BETA. Still no platoons?


...


http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/wwttss.gif


thread over.

[Happy lil Elf]

Obligatory post thread over post

[Tryndamere]

How anticipted it is doesn't make it any more or less difficult to add to the game.

How you designed your outfit doesn't make platoons any more or less difficult to add to the game.


So your argument is that Sony has not added platoons to the game because it is too difficult for them to program?

:D

:lol

[Hamma]

Right up until mid beta it was on the "to do list" for release features, that suggests they had already started work on it before the game was even released.

So who knows why we havent seen em yet

[MaestroBabeh]

Mojo wrote:
That's all there is to the issue. Platoons aren't "late".

Then Mojo wrote:
As I've said before, I'll totally agree that platoons are long overdue and the dev team has been shirking it's promises


Hmm, make your mind up!!!!! Hypocrite! :D