the HA adjustments are perfect

[Sleepwalker]

congratulations, SOE! you saw a problem, saw a bunch of people complaining, and managed to solve the problem WITHOUT doing what all of the whiners said!

they said make the MCG CoF tighter, and instead they just made the amount of shots fired before the cone grows larger, effectively making it even more of an effective burst weapon.

they said make the lasher projectiles faster, because they were too easy to dodge, and instead they made it fire a LOT faster, thus making it more difficult to dodge at short range but still keeping it an entirely short range weapon!

they said nerf the jackhammer, and they completely ignored them!

i see way too many whining threads, so i wanted to say congratulations to SOE. you balanced them quite nicely.

[Vowels]

I've been playing alot of Vanu lately and I've recently seen alot of jackhammers from the other end of the barrel, so to speak. I see why the Vanu and TR complain about it so much, BUT...just as the jackhammer is a "newb-friendly" weapon, so is the approach that usually gets you whacked by it.

I'm learning to put a bit of distance between me and NC grunts when I shoot, and ironically, using surge to keep that distance and maneuver is working. I still like the lasher best, hehe.

I agree with the changes, also. A shotgun should remain a devastating up-close weapon, and the chaingun should be a fast burst weapon, and I still like slinging globes of blue stuff at folks, and the change seems to give me more of what I was already doing, hehehe.

[1024]

Uh, this isn't the SOE boards.... :rolleyes:

[Sleepwalker]

are you kidding? i'm not posting on that whine-fest.

also, the official site freezes on me a lot.

[/irony]

[Vowels]

What's the problem? I wasn't whining or anything and I thought we were having a reasonable discussion.

[Sleepwalker]

Originally posted by Sleepwalker
are you kidding? i'm not posting on that whine-fest.

also, the official site freezes on me a lot.

[/irony]

talking to 1024.

[Vowels]

So was I, hehehe

[ThundaHawkPS]

I agree that the HA changes will help balance cert which needed some changes. Nice to see that SOE didn't simply nerf everything to hell (with that in mind, I still think the jackhammer is a bit too lethal- being a gauss user myself)

[Katanaboy]

technically, a chaingun is supposed to be a full-auto weapon...what use is having the fastest refire rate when you cant use it? In real life (i know, its just a game), the vulcan cannon has a very low cone of fire due to the fact that its so damn heavy, the recoil doesnt affect it. And energy/plasma thingies...shouldnt they fly as fast or faster than a bullet/shot?

[CrazyCrazy]

uhhhhhhh, no. In RL, heavy machine guns have huge recoils and you are instructed to always use controlled, burst fire. MCGs raving for more than one second would knock you on your ass and you wouldn't be able to hit an elephant 4 feet in front of you. That kind of gunfire only exists in schwarzenegger and Rambo movies.

Even the vulcan cannon, can only fire about 50 rounds per burst before its recoil seriously affects a planes flight control. Vulcans are mounted onto fighter jets, btw, not carried around by infantry.
What this game really needs is the ability to go into prone position and have a supported mode for the MCG and sniper rifle which reduces CoF effects when moving and recoil.

[Tryndamere]

The chaingun on the A-10 Warthog has so much kick that when you fire it the plane slows down 100mph.

Powah~

Yay to the changes though

[Revolver]

Originally posted by Katanaboy
technically, a chaingun is supposed to be a full-auto weapon...what use is having the fastest refire rate when you cant use it? In real life (i know, its just a game), the vulcan cannon has a very low cone of fire due to the fact that its so damn heavy, the recoil doesnt affect it. And energy/plasma thingies...shouldnt they fly as fast or faster than a bullet/shot? Uh, IRL, almost all miniguns, chainguns, vulcans, etc. are mounted. They're not meant to be carried, since 95% of troops couldn't handle them.

[Ghost06]

Well, if we're talking about "realistic" effects, the gauss should be the most powerful weapon in the game. After all, railguns shoot 1 ton uranium slugs at such high speeds the friction between it and the air is so great that the air around the slug turns into plasma, and the slug can therefore pass through walls invulerably, to completely maul it's poor, poor target. They also have X-ray scopes.

My point, Why compare RL to a game? Unless you:

a) live in a dark room contemplating the deaths of all the people in your school.

b) taking heavy doses of psychiatric medication.

c) your name is Bob Dole.

[Trebor95]

aye the only carryable machine guns I know of (I have no knowledge in this area) are things like the SAW, M60 etc. none of which I would ever fire full aouto for the duration of its available rounds, you'll melt hte barrel or something,

surely the MCG is perfect for burst supressing fire.

[Katanaboy]

oops, sorry, i guess i was misinformed :) though i still find it strange that the empire with the fast rate of fire has to use controlled bursts

[ajohn505]

Originally posted by Katanaboy
oops, sorry, i guess i was misinformed :) though i still find it strange that the empire with the fast rate of fire has to use controlled bursts

You're right I think every player on every faction should just use every weapon to run towards each other at full speed while firing. Theres strategy for ya.

The JH will always be the premier up-close weapon.

[Doppler]

Originally posted by Katanaboy
technically, a chaingun is supposed to be a full-auto weapon...what use is having the fastest refire rate when you cant use it? In real life (i know, its just a game), the vulcan cannon has a very low cone of fire due to the fact that its so damn heavy, the recoil doesnt affect it. And energy/plasma thingies...shouldnt they fly as fast or faster than a bullet/shot?

Ah this makes you wrong again. In real life almost all machine guns experience a lot of recoil especialy in the form of something called muzzle climb. If you want a more or less acurate feeling of a heavy machine gun find a copy of Flashpoint in your local bargain bin.

guess i was misinformed though i still find it strange that the empire with the fast rate of fire has to use controlled bursts

Quit while your ahea......beh...able to walk away? So basicly your saying essential is that they shouldnt have to aim, just hold down the trigger and sweep the mouse, becaause that is what a controlled burst is, aim fire, release, breath, kill again. But if you want to do without all that pesky controll bursting grab a cylcer and go to town.

[Deadfist]

I would have prefered higher velocity shots from the lasher over higher firing speed, but overall i'd say the changes are definetely for the better.

[Katanaboy]

i wasnt suggesting anything, i was just wondering, and i said "i find it strange"...

[shinken]

Originally posted by Tryndamere
The chaingun on the A-10 Warthog has so much kick that when you fire it the plane slows down 100mph.

Powah~

Yay to the changes though

it has more "Powah" than both of its engines

but, miniguns are not usually 30mm monsters and do not have enough kick to through the barrel up, also the lasher balls could move at any speed IMO cuz it seems to me that it works like ball lighning, it shouldnt have kick tho, but that would probably unbalence it, the other vanu weapons should be instantanious fire tho...

[Kikinchikin]

you got changes mixed up. Lasher gets higher RoF. Chaingun gets Slower expanding CoF.

[gospadin]

Originally posted by Ghost06
Well, if we're talking about "realistic" effects, the gauss should be the most powerful weapon in the game. After all, railguns shoot 1 ton uranium slugs at such high speeds the friction between it and the air is so great that the air around the slug turns into plasma, and the slug can therefore pass through walls invulerably, to completely maul it's poor, poor target.

Do you even know what plasma is? Plasma doesn't make anything invulnerable, it is simply a state of matter where it is so hot that the electrons separate from the material and charge the superheated gas that results.

There's no railgun in the world that is currently shooting 1-ton slugs that I am aware of, the power required to accelerate 1-ton to rail-gun velocities, in a barrel less than several kilometers long, would be astronomical.

Most of the railgun demonstrations in weapons labs have been using iron "bullets" roughly 1oz in size, shrouded in an aluminum casing that matches the shape of the barrel. When the bullet+casing exit the barrel, the aluminum halves break away leaving the slug traveling alone.

It then strikes the target and causes huge damage.

The theory behind a railgun is to use ultra-small ultra-light projectiles at ultra-high velocities (multiple-thousand metres per second, compared to current "standard" bullets going 300-500 m/s). This allows the soldier, given sufficient energy supply (some sort of nuclear source is envisoned) to carry thousands of rounds in only a few pounds of extra weight for the ammo.

http://home.insightbb.com/~jmengel4/rail/rail-intro.html

This also has links to UT railgun research.

--gos

[Ghost06]

Yes I do know what plasma is. It takes a whole lot of energy to accelerate matter into a plasma form, and that usually translates into heat. What I was saying is that the projecticle is moving so quickly that the air around it is heated (accelerated if you must) into a plasma state.It'd be impossible for it not to when you compare the friction between the projectile and the air, you could actually use a proportion if you knew the round being used. If you want a demonstration of plasma, look at the sun. Yes, plasma is very, very hot. The 1 ton uranium slug is something I got from mechwarrior, sorry :p I know how railguns operate.

[Ghost06]

Oh, and by invulnerable, I meant it could pass through objects with freedom of ease.

[pauljar1]

It seems as though the only people making snippy comments now about the MCG are the NC. I think they found out that they FINALLY have a match against their insta-kill weapon, the JH.

...which in itself is a pure shoot, without control, (as long as you're facing the person) and they will drop. Don't tell me otherwise, because I have 18 of them in my locker and use them whenever I'm inside. They ARE in fact an insta-kill weapon.

And no one here is saying that we should be able to hold the fire button down for all 100 shots in the clip and run the halls mowing over anything withing 30 meters of us. All we're saying is that we should be able to fire the weapon more than 15 shots at a time withoug having to stop. The JH doesn't need to stop. I can run down a hallway with the fire button down the the ENTIRE time and i will kill everything that comes in my way. This is NOT based on heresay, but TRUE fact as I have tested it MANY, MANY, MANY times!

[Karak]

I was under the impression that chain guns in RL that are similar to the one we have in game. As in they have a rotary barrell. Are designed specifically to have next to no recoil. Instead of pushing back the spinning barrels negate the momentum to the side and there for removing the recoil. Making them very accurate because there is no recoil.

I think most of you are talking about just chain link feed machineguns. As in a very fast firing machine gun that needs a large amount of ammo to be useful, and there for is fed from very large boxes of ammo via a bullet chain device

If you look at the gun ingame you will see it does have i think 3 barrels in the rotary styl . So therefore shouldnt it have similar features to the rotary cannon =o.

[pauljar1]

ajohn505:

You're right I think every player on every faction should just use every weapon to run towards each other at full speed while firing. Theres strategy for ya.

This is nuts! You just contradicted yourself and all the JH users the NC has! That's EXACTLY what the NC Jackhammer users do. They implant their surge and run straight at you with the fire button down. Running right by trees, bunkers and walls. No strategy, just run and shoot. And, the sad part is that they can do this from 30-40 meters away and kill you by the time they get to you. With the MCG, now, you (hopefully) won't be able to get that close.

Personally, I try to use every element of the landscape that I can, including trees, bunkers, walls, destroyed vehicles (before they dissolve), etc...

It's a battleFIELD, not a battle RUN! (That was kinda stupid, but you know what I mean!)

[Happy lil Elf]

No, the jackhammer is not insta-kill. Insta-kill would be something like a headshot. You press fire, they die. The jachammer takes three shots to kill reinforced, that's at point blank range mind you. Three shots take just over 1.5 seconds to fire. The secondary mode will kill instanly but you have to literally have the gun barrel poking them because after the first shot the COF expands to it's maximum causing the second and third shots to barely hit from and range but point blank.

How long does it take a MCG to kill a reinforced in direct fire? Not very long, in fact although I haven't actually times it, I bet it's right around 1.5 seconds. If you do have 18 Jackhammers in your locker, maybe you should try using them and then pay attention.

[Sleepwalker]

Originally posted by Karak
I was under the impression that chain guns in RL that are similar to the one we have in game. As in they have a rotary barrell. Are designed specifically to have next to no recoil. Instead of pushing back the spinning barrels negate the momentum to the side and there for removing the recoil. Making them very accurate because there is no recoil.

this man is correct. a single-barreled machine gun will have tremendous recoil, and will also overheat if shot too many times too quickly, because of the huge mass of bullets zooming through the barrel. when mounted on the ground, this will not have quite as much recoil, as it is designed not to move. when picked up, however, an M60 for instance will have INCREDIBLE recoil.

a minigun, however, with more than one barrel, spins, causing its recoil to cancel itself out, and keep it relatively accurate. the primary reason for the multiple barrels is so that a person CAN hose down an area without any of the barrels overheating. it is designed specifically to keep the trigger held down.

that said, this is a videogame, and game balance makes it a good burst weapon. so i'm happy.

[Karak]

yeah I agree, im not going to argue with what they do ingame as long as it doesnt essentially make one faction invicible. I just like to have the correct information for arguements.

[NapalmEnima]

Originally posted by Ghost06
Yes I do know what plasma is. It takes a whole lot of energy to accelerate matter into a plasma form, and that usually translates into heat. What I was saying is that the projecticle is moving so quickly that the air around it is heated (accelerated if you must) into a plasma state.It'd be impossible for it not to when you compare the friction between the projectile and the air, you could actually use a proportion if you knew the round being used. If you want a demonstration of plasma, look at the sun. Yes, plasma is very, very hot. The 1 ton uranium slug is something I got from mechwarrior, sorry :p I know how railguns operate.

Forgive me, but it doesn't sound like you do.

Plasma has nothing to do with velocity. Some gasses have to get really hot before they give up their electrons, others do it at something close to room temperature (florecent lights), at HIGH VOLTAGE (and low amps).

You sound like someone who's heard just enough about something to leap to some (wrong) conclusions. That or you're not very good at explaining yourself.

But Don't take my word for it. Here's a link for ya. NASA knows what they're talking about:
http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wplasma.html

:\

[Happy lil Elf]

Spinning barrels have verv little effect on recoil. The primary reason for spinning barrels is to allow the gun to fire that quickly without melting the barrels. The very slight reduction in recoil is definately not enough to allow one to be fired by a soldier, at least not with current technology.

[Peacemaker]

Originally posted by Tryndamere
The chaingun on the A-10 Warthog has so much kick that when you fire it the plane slows down 100mph.

Powah~

Yay to the changes though


Acctualy the A-10 has a burst setting biult into the large cannon mounted under the nose. The GAU-30 30mm Roatary cannon has 7 barrels and when it fires it produces enourmous amounts of recoil. If the computer didnt limit the burst on the cannon a GAU could stop the plane in its tracks, the thrust made by the engines WILL be negated by the thrust made by the cannon. (actualy I saw a story somewere where some pilot shot off all the rounds he could to slow the plane as fast as possible, the result was an SA 13 missed him by 500 feet)

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
How long does it take a MCG to kill a reinforced in direct fire? Not very long, in fact although I haven't actually times it, I bet it's right around 1.5 seconds. If you do have 18 Jackhammers in your locker, maybe you should try using them and then pay attention.

The Jackhammer has that power and accuracy out to about 15 meters though, whereas the MCG has the power but none of the accuracy. If 2 people ran up to each other and took no evasive maneuvers and opened fire the weapons are pretty even, but not otherwise.

[Happy lil Elf]

The Jackhammer isn't all that accurate from 15m. It's pretty decent but you do lose a pretty good chunk of your damage. The MCG however can be accurate at a much longer range. Also with the JH if you miss with a shot it's more costly to you than missing with a couple MCG shots, because in the time it takes for that 4rth shot to go off the MCG user can get another 4ish shots off.

With the changes there is more than enough accuracy in the short burst it takes to kill a reinforced to go toe to toe with a JH user, just make sure you've got at least 20m between the two of you and don't be suprised if you get killed if you bump into someone with a Jackhammer coming around the corner ;)

In short, they're pretty well balanced now, at least imo

[JonnyK]

i play as NC on emerald and vanu on the test server, i think that the lasher is really good now on the test server. i saw probly 3 reavers get taken down by 2 or 3 guys shooting at them with lashers. but i was using one and it's still pretty hard to hit people, i'd say they're balanced.

[Doppler]

Originally posted by Karak
I was under the impression that chain guns in RL that are similar to the one we have in game. As in they have a rotary barrell. Are designed specifically to have next to no recoil. Instead of pushing back the spinning barrels negate the momentum to the side and there for removing the recoil. Making them very accurate because there is no recoil.

I think most of you are talking about just chain link feed machineguns. As in a very fast firing machine gun that needs a large amount of ammo to be useful, and there for is fed from very large boxes of ammo via a bullet chain device

If you look at the gun ingame you will see it does have i think 3 barrels in the rotary styl . So therefore shouldnt it have similar features to the rotary cannon =o.

The spinning barrells have little or no baring on recoil. In fact realisticly they whould make it worse.

[pauljar1]

Elf:

One-shot/One-Kills in this game are relative because there aren't any (unless you could snipers on infils). But, what other weapon can you say kills an infantry soldier in 3 rounds?! 3 ROUNDS!!!!

The JH is the only one to do it. (Don't count the MAXES and other vehicles). The MCG can do it in maybe the same time, but only if the barrel is inside your spine. I've personally killed other NC with the Jackhammer in 4 shots while running at them from over 20m away!

3 shots to kill and maybe 10-12 with the MCG? Maybe it will be made a level playing field again withe MCG changes.

[Happy lil Elf]

Number of shots is not what counts. What counts is time from first shot to the opponent dropping, which is roughly equal.

*edit* I'm talking about it being a level playing field on the test server, always have been. I've also been one of the loudest voices saying the MCG and Lasher needed loving, which they did, and are now getting.

[Ghost06]

Originally posted by NapalmEnima
Forgive me, but it doesn't sound like you do.

Plasma has nothing to do with velocity. Some gasses have to get really hot before they give up their electrons, others do it at something close to room temperature (florecent lights), at HIGH VOLTAGE (and low amps).

You sound like someone who's heard just enough about something to leap to some (wrong) conclusions. That or you're not very good at explaining yourself.

But Don't take my word for it. Here's a link for ya. NASA knows what they're talking about:
http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wplasma.html

:\

Alright, let me make it simple. You need energy to make a molecule change physical states. The more energy you add to a molecule, the faster the molecules that make the stuff up move & impact other molecules within the molecule. Add enough energy, and it is moving quickly enough to move from say, a liquid to a gas. Add enough, the electrons go lickity split and you have plasma. You need a lot of energy to do this. I was using friction because friction will cause heat, and heat will add energy to a substance (heat and cold come from how fast molecules are moving within ay given thing). In order for friction to translate into heat you must fist have some sort of velocity.

My science is a lil bit fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

[Happy lil Elf]

While that's theoretically possible, it's never been proven. Well that and a projectile traveling fast enough to turn air into plasma would have to be traveling so fast that it would disintegrate in all likelyhood.

[Cauldron Borne]

A stay puffed marshmellow launche at the speed of light at the earth would destroy the planet. It would not have time to disinigrate in the atmosphere.

If chain/mini guns provide to much kick to be held by a single soldier then why are heavy assult squads in the Army and Marines armed with them? One grunt+Minigun+10,000 round (easy to carry in a backpack/tub)+old car=scrap metal car in 4 minutes of firing. I've seen it happen. I'll have to find the movie and post it somewhere.

[VictoryRose]

Originally posted by Katanaboy
oops, sorry, i guess i was misinformed :) though i still find it strange that the empire with the fast rate of fire has to use controlled bursts

We Terran use bursts because we have the fastest rate of fire =)

[Happy lil Elf]

A stay puffed marshmellow launched at the speed of light at the earth would destroy the planet. It would not have time to disinigrate in the atmosphere.

Except rail guns do not throw things at the speed of light, not even close. Gratz for believing what you see in movies with "sound" scientific backgrounds like Eraser. And no, a stay puffed marshmellow wouldn't destroy the planet. Make a huge crater? Maybe. Blow up the planet like a super charged Death Star? No.

Anyways my point is we can't throw anything fast enough to turn air into plasma, no matter what you've seen in video games and movies. There just would be enough friction to superheat the air in an instant. And if you desgined a projectile to somehow create more friction, you screw yourself on range and accuracy.

[Cauldron Borne]

it was a HYPOTHETICAL state ment worked out mathematically. had nothing to do with RAILGUNS didn't even mention railguns. ASSUMING you could launch a StayPuffed Marshmellow at the speed of light it would indeed comlpletely desroy the earth.

Thank you; Thank you.

CB

[Happy lil Elf]

No, it wouldn't. I might drill a hole straight through, but it would not be destructuve enough to break up a planet. Now if we're talking something that has a decent amount of mass, then yes it could.

Thank you; Thank you

[1024]

SHUT UP YOU'RE HURTING MY BRAIN!!

[Ghost06]

Actually, I'm going to have to agree with cauldron borne on this one. Think of the marshmellow vs. earth like this: A mid-sized assualt rifle round traveling at near light speeds vs. a watermelon. It is for sure going to be either A) explode or most likely, B) split into 2 or more pieces. In both scenarios, the world would come to an "end." I don't know what might happen if the marshmellow hit water though.

[Sleepwalker]

____________________
____________________
^ the rails




<[###][###][###]
^this thread.

[SumYungGui]

wow, what a doozy sleepwalker. that's maybe the third or fourth message I've ever read that made me bust out in full throated laughter.

[Kikinchikin]

OMG I CAN SEE SADDAM HUSSEINZ NEWEST MESSAGE 2 EVERYONE!!!!!!1

I urge you, my people, you must wage war upon the Americans with..... MARSHMALLOWS!!!!!!!!! THATS RIGHT HYPER ACCELEARTED MARSHMALLOWZ!!!!!!!! HA HA!!!!!!!

Seriously in 3 years we'll be seeing a movie where the michelin man takez over the marshmallow facotr an goez berserk and firez marshamllowz at earth thus causing an apocalyps.

and in all seriousness, the marshammallow would not destroy earth, it would go straight to the core where it would then burn up?

[Happy lil Elf]

Actually, I'm going to have to agree with cauldron borne on this one. Think of the marshmellow vs. earth like this: A mid-sized assualt rifle round traveling at near light speeds vs. a watermelon. It is for sure going to be either A) explode or most likely, B) split into 2 or more pieces. In both scenarios, the world would come to an "end." I don't know what might happen if the marshmellow hit water though.

No, again poor example. Apples and oranges my friend, You're comparing a high velocity high density object moving at a high speed against a soft target to a soft projectile moving at a high speed against a very hard object and an object so large it has it's own gravitational field I might add.

A large crater? Maybe, but a marshmellow, no matter how quickly it's traveling would not contain enough kinetic energy to destroy a planetary mass.

[Gabsux]

I think Cauldron is right on a technicallity. No object with mass could obtain the speed of light. However if that marshmellow did obtain the speed of light, I thought Mr. Einstein said it would obtain infinite mass...law of Special Relativity? Its been a while since I had a physics class though...I'm old =P.

[Cauldron Borne]

hehe my weather teacher told me this. picture this if you will:

a jujubee; reletivly soft(its like a reeeeelly small gum drop) is fired from a bb gun at a...uh... i dunno beach ball filled with kool-aid. the beach ball would have a coat of double thick cardboard paper to symbolize the crust of the earth. when the jujubee hits the crust it will knock the crust out of the way forming a crater. and split into the inside. the force would knock some of the koolaid out and the jujubee would continue until it punched through the other side. where it would again cause more of the innards of the planet to spew out. the force of this would cause catastrofic earth quakes that would tear the world apart. now in the case of the candy and the ball the candy isn't going fast enough so it just tosses the ball out of 'orbit' and deflates it. if it was a marshmellow and going at the speed of light it would knock the planet out of orbit cause earthquakes and tear the earth apart from the inside out.

[Cauldron Borne]

wow we went from HA weapons to marshmellow, cool.:cool: