Why do you hink PS is failling?

[Lockdown]

Lets face it, number are going down... way down. And it's not just the newness wearing off either. Despite lookin really nice and having some innovative features something big is missing. Now, before I go on, I know I am not speaking for everyone for some love the game, I just think it is really important to look and see why so many are leaving this game.

The main flaw in this game ,that many who left have told me, and ironicaly is the same that I have been preaching since beta, is that there is no way to win. And when Is ay win I mean the entire map. Locking a continent means nothing becasue in an hour someone else can take it right back which mean your hard work meant nothing. This is the main reason I know longer play.

Also (more personal for me) is the use of a hit point system. HP systems get very old and take away a huge potential of strategy for this game. What does a HP sys do?? Well for those who may not know, an HP system gives points to every vehicle that must be taken down to zero in order for it to be killed translation= you could destroy a tank with a rifle if you hit it enough times. How realistic is that? another example, If you fire missles into the engine of a tank or galaxy, it does the same damage as if you were to hit it in the body of the vehicle. This mean you have to use no strategy when assaulting a vehicle, no taking out an engine, detracking a tank and only having anti-tanks weapons hurting tanks etc...... . To me this is just lazy coding since other games are moving this direction and increases the fun/skill factor big time.

what are yalls reasons??

[MrVicchio]

I understand where you are commig from, despite the good things in PS, its seriously lacking in the satsifaction at the end fo the day arena. There is a sense of.... "Whats the point?"


There are those that are against a "win" scenario, namely the dev team. There are pros and cons to "winning" but I think that a winnable scenario would give the game a real sense of purpose. This is an unwinnable war with nothing but increasingly dull battles over pointless bases on easily taken contienents. I haven't been in a real good fight in weeks, it seems that anytime one side starts to make headway, there aren't enough people around to fight... and defend a base... who does that anymore? Why bother?

PS is full of potential but the window of success is only so big, and right now they are letting it close.

BTW PS is fading a bit, not failing, its a good game but the over all appeal isn't sticking as well as some thought it would. GIve it time it is there.

[Jarlo]

You know I think what they need is something similar to relics in DAOC. Some large bases or Vanu item or something that is a goal and gives access to a unique vehicle or gives the population some benefit (increased stamina regen for example).

This has been suggested by multiple people but I do not see it going in game any time soon.

[Aegis]

Firstly, i dont think PS is failing. However the point about winning is a valid one. While some satisfaction can be had in locking down a continent there's no XP bonus for it, and it can be retaken before you know it. I dont know what i would suggest as a 'winning' objective and reward, locking down all continents is near impossible on most servers, totally so on the more well balanced ones.

As for tanks being harmed by hand weapons etc, the simple reason for this is gameplay. If they werent then everybody would drive in tanks. If you ever played C&C Renegade you'll know what i mean. The only way to counter this would to be to make the AV weaponry capable of taking out a tank in one hit, or at least disabling it by taking out tracks etc, which would mean people would never use tanks coz the AV weaponry would be so popular. what we currently have is a balance, light weaponry like medium assault and sniper rifles do pretty insignificant damage to tanks, not enough to ever really take them out if the crew have half a brain cell between them, even as it stands, a good tank driver can be the nearest thing to an 'uber weapon' that PS has, i've done five hours of drivign round in my Vanguard without ever getting it blown up or killed.

Thats the reason i dont think the hinted 'heavy tanks' will ever appear, not unless the medium tanks are nerfed to lightning type armour, which isnt feasible due to the knock on nerfing for other vehicles.

[Hamma]

My numbers are not falling at PSU, they remain steadily rising. PS isnt falling, yet.

[Lonehunter]

Hamma I think you should start an "I'm bored and there is no content" forum, cause there's a lot of whinners.

[Hamma]

We deal with these threads monthly :p

[Harps]

Guys im not seeing a difference in a "end game" in PS and any other fps. In PS u cap a base (pretty much like winnin a map) In any other fps u win a map and that is your end game .. U say well in PS if u cap a base its usless because its ganna get taken within an hour anyway... Well in any other FPS its exactly the same because next round it could be the other way around and the other team took all the bases on the map and won.. Whats the difference ?? All fps's have a useless end game

[Queensidecastle]

I think the number 1 reason is that people's free month after buying has run out. These people may have had fun playing every night, but just dont have or wont justify a monthly expenditure. Also for many the game could have been a gift, but the monthly fee obviously wouldnt

[Lonehunter]

My B-Day is coming up, I'm asking for 2 game cards. :D

[gunner_uk2000]

well, i think it needs something that flashes up on the screen infoming you of your massive trumpih. ie you could lock down all contininets and win, and get something for it, but then go back to the begining, like a games of CS, with the winnning house, all geting +1 Battlerank(only people who have played a certain number of hours).

also, the thing is as an FPS, PS is a bit shit, ie no hitzones, so a hit to the head is the same as a hit to the little toe.

but it's more than likely due to people free 30 days running out.

[Bismarck]

There is no end to PS, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER FPS IN HISTORY.

Whoever started the idea that PS was a RPG/FPS is a jerk an should be brutally killed.

[starrider]

you realize that the DEVS started that right???

and my free month is up and thats not the reason that im begining to question discontnuieng my subscription and whatnot, its because in any other FPS when you cap a base or whatever, you win, or in singleplayer you beat the game. in PS you dont get advantages, you dont get any extra XP, not even a victory message. ,my guess to why people are leaveing PS is because there is a lack of purpose to play it. this isnt the case for some who are loyal to PS fanaticly :cough: lonehunter187 :cough:
but that is a reason some people are leaveing. i think the devs should put some sense of accomplishment in to PS or sooner or later its gonna die.

[Valcron]

Originally posted by Harps
Guys im not seeing a difference in a "end game" in PS and any other fps. In PS u cap a base (pretty much like winnin a map) In any other fps u win a map and that is your end game .. U say well in PS if u cap a base its usless because its ganna get taken within an hour anyway... Well in any other FPS its exactly the same because next round it could be the other way around and the other team took all the bases on the map and won.. Whats the difference ?? All fps's have a useless end game


Flawed arguement, the question essentially is; why are you playing Planetside then?

[Navaron]

Originally posted by Valcron
Flawed arguement, the question essentially is; why are you playing Planetside then?

Cause he's paying for it? Why the hell can't he bitch about a product he's paying for? Everyone was promised and led to believe that a whole lot of "exclusive" cool shit was going to come about, but we haven't seen dick.

Hell, their within 2 months prediction timer is coming up and we haven't heard a peep out of any one about their progress.

The problem is, PS does not justify 13 dollars a month. RPG's do. That is why there's a comparison.

[Navaron]

Originally posted by Hamma
My numbers are not falling at PSU, they remain steadily rising. PS isnt falling, yet.

That's not directly related to PS however. You're still getting OF refugees, and there's a lot of people who stick around here who don't have the game or who have quit.

The fact that emerald almost never gets 4 circles anymore and anytime before 5 pm you can't find instant action tells me that someone needs a kick in the ass.

[MrVulcan]

Here are my thoughts... (ok..ok.. its long... what else is new :p )
*1st my specs:
My game is set on med everything
P4 2.4ghz
512 ddr
G4 4600
10 ghz swap space
X-DSL
***************
For starters my fps was bouncing around from 2.4 (yes, 2.4) to 78, and avg around 15-20 in most battles and 40 when just going around in the middle of nowhere. Now no game should run on a system like this at 15-20 fps at any time. UT2003 has never droped below 60ish and I have the settings on max.

They did write bad code, simple as that

This game has GREAT potential, however they are not living up to it.

I am a programer, and I have modded several games.

They should be adding a new vech/weapon each week
They should add all of the new base defences withen 2 weeks
They should change the cont links every 24-48 hours
They should add a new cont every 20 days
They should add new base designes every other week
(all of this at once)

Are these unrealistic expectations, no.
I know how long it takes to write something new int oa game. Once I had a model, I could put a new weapon in game from the ground up, by myself in 2 days (balancing took longer)

In most cases they can copy-paste code from other vechs.

Take the liberator, you use the gal's code for using more than 1 person in a flying vech with guns, and add the reaver's build list info, then change the location of the model data, the weapon location data, and there ya go, the liberator.

A few hours work.

I fail to see any valid reason for them taking months to add in 2 new vechs and then let a variant of the gal's code just sorta get droped into nowhere (that vech transport 'in the works' )

This game has more potential than any other game I have ever seen in my life, however I fear that SOE, due to mounds of bad code, failure to produce things in a timly manor, and failure to keep the community informed AT ALL will cause the downfall of this game.

already servers are falling below min population, (on Markov) I can get on and see 1 dot, 2 at peak times in middle of the week, and 3 dots at peek time at friday night, etc

It takes an hour or 2 just to find a semi good fight now.

This more than anything will cause people to leave.

All of this said, I am not leaving any time soon, I will be here, however I feer that the game is reaching a point where we may see its end in the next 4 months time.

*if half of who plays leaves, and nothing too new is added (say 2 new vechs) will you still be playing in 4 months?*

At the very least the team needs to start responding to real issues going on and not just pointless topics and flames. They should keep us updated daily on what s goin on, where they are having problems, and what they are doing to fix them.


Now you may ask, What behind such bad framerates?
Well, here are my thoughts on the topic:

My guess (guess mind you, I would have to look at their code to be sure) is that they are preloading all of the textures that they can into your swap space. They do this by loading all textures withen a radius of you, insted of worring about what you might see due to things that block your sight (much easier code for the way I think they did it).
So, if you are outside a base, it loads all textures being used withen a radius of your location, including things that are inside the base, weapons fired on other sides of walls, etc as to *try* and reduce lag by the time you get to the objects (IMO this type of code works semi ok on paper but not in reality due to complexity of load/unload many things at once).

It also goes and makes the radius as big as it can *bigger swap, bigger radius* and then *for some reason I dont know* it leaves the data in the swap until it fills up the swap space. This forces it to both delete the temp info and write new info every time a new texture enters your radius.

What I would do is to code it so that if the object leaves your radius, you unload it from memory, and set texturs them selves to have a radius to load to, and not you have a radius (so that you dont load everything unless you are about to see it and it dosnt keep stuff loaded that was already in your radius and no longer is.

Sorta like this (at the very least) "if player is withen XXX meters of object YYY, load in memory, priority ZZZ until player withen XYZ meters of object, then priority ZXY"
then:
"if player leaves XXX meter radius of object, unload memory"

so that way it keeps everything loading and unloading at a constant rate and keeping the swap size use down to as low of an amount as possible so you can quickly load many textures if need be.

my guess is that this is somehting like the current code they are using:

"load all textures withen XXX meters of player, priority ZZZ, if swap full, check for textures not in radius XXX, unload needed space for new textures, load new textures."

This makes all textures global load even if they dont need to be, and causes system lag if it tries to free up room on the fly to load new textures.

I also honistly think that the lack of new content is since the current content's code is too buggy to allow reproduction (sorta like a boat w/a bunch of patches, cant use the parts with holes for too many other projects) so they are having to compeletely rewrite the vechs/weapons from the ground up insted of jsut copy-paste the basics for a vech and changing a quick text file on the dmg/range/texture location of everything. If you design a game where you dont plan to add anything, doing it this way is fine, but if you plan to add things you need to design it from the start to allow for a base set of vech/weapon information that lets you copy-paste the real code and just change some of the variables.
I could be wrong, but this would account for the major time delays and problems in the patches when they try to add new things.

*so the end answer is, I think (I could be worng, but this is my guess until they inform us about what it is) that a lot of their base code is bad, and they are having to rewrite a lot of it from scratch every time they want to do somehting with the game*

[Hamma]

I am talking about overall traffic nav. It's not just people coming from the OF's or forums.

And people who hang around here and have quit the game should go elsewhere, in most cases they only hurt our community not help it. Because if there is no PS, there is no PSU. When PS dies, PSU ceases to exist.

[MrVulcan]

what are the numbers here now adays anyways?
Just wondering......

[Hamma]

High.

I don't post our stats in public.

[Hertston]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron

The problem is, PS does not justify 13 dollars a month. RPG's do. That is why there's a comparison.

Name one. MMORPGs are the gaming equivalent of watching paint dry, IMHO.

That aside, those subscription games that havn't died an early death have all evolved over time into much better products than the release game.. although in many cases that was hardly difficult :D The thing is though, is takes months, in some cases many months or even years. Name ONE MMPOG that has delivered the degree of "exciting new content" people seem to expect from PS within two or three months. People here seem to behave like five year olds "I wanna get new stuff and I want it NOW !!".

Show a little patience. If you can't do that, STOP paying, shut up, piss off for now, and come back in a few months and see if things have improved. They'll do a free trial for "returners" sooner or later so you won't even have to pay to try it again.

[MrVulcan]

dats cool

[Hamma]

The fact that it is war on a massive scale with a shitload of people around, and bases to capture warrants the fee to me :p

[Vowels]

For those that need an "endgame," I could easily see the devs cycling each server with a set of conditions in which each empire can "win." Time of Defiance does this...it IS a MMORTS, and not a shooter, but the same could apply. You run a session on each server that either has an open-ended duration to get the winning conditions, or you set up the server for a specified time limit and tally scores at the end. Either way, you wipe cert pts when you start up the next session, to level the playing field. As was pointed out, this is NOT an RPG, so each session should be a buildup just like when you haul out Monopoly, Risk, or Talisman.

I would think that would solve the problem of "we're not going anywhere with this" and it would add a time-pressure to the play for added spice. More time played would still give people that "l337-ness" feeling that some folks seem to crave, and yet newbs with suppressors could still take them out, just as now.

[starrider]

wow vulcan...why dont you go work for the dev team, then they might get some work done and/or tell us about it.

[Navaron]

Sure seems like the elitists everyone ran from in T2 have found their way here.

The fact is, the consumer is not getting what he was led to believe he was going to get. If you refute that, then you're a blinded fan boy.

How come just because it's a MMO game, people just accept the fact that there's a fuck ton of bugs, and they reintroduce half of them every patch? Why is it ok to pay full price every month for a product many people can't use fully? How come people just accept it? That's what I'm wondering. It seems like if you speak out about anything, then you're the anti christ. The problem is, there aren't enough of those fanboys to keep this game fun. You need those thousands of people. But maybe you're right, we should all sit down and shut up, cause we've seen the initiative these devs have.

Why is it console gamers don't have to patch their games? Cause it's not an option, so they don't push unfinished games out the door. Why does this set of consumers accept it with computer games?

What other modern games have had this many patches this many times in this short of a period?

Don't get me wrong, I like PS when it works. My favorite thing about it is the people though. IMO it doesn't warrant the price tag it has right now, but it could. Go ahead and tell me not to play the game, but all it's doing is hurting you guys.

PS is the game I always dreamed of when I thought of online play. This game was the result of all the great "What if they could" questions I ever dreamed up. I'm dissapointed for 2 reasons. One, my hopes were too high, and two, SOE is living up to their reputation.

What really irks me is the short sighted people cropping up who think that everyone with a complaint or a point of discontentment is an anarchist who wants Dave G to die. Go ahead and keep telling them to stop playing and leave. We all know there's not a chance in hell they'll pick the game back up, especially with the games out on the horizon, and all that does is leave the rest of us up a creek with no one to shoot. Maybe it's denial.

[Revolver]

Originally posted by Harps
Guys im not seeing a difference in a "end game" in PS and any other fps. In PS u cap a base (pretty much like winnin a map) Nah...that's more like capping a flag. It gives you and your team points, but is only a small part in determining which team "wins"

boo-yaah

Originally posted by Hamma
High.

I don't post our stats in public. /me gets suspicious. Maybe he's lying! Maybe the devs are bribing him! MAYBE HE'S JANET RENO :scared:

[Navaron]

Originally posted by Revolver
MAYBE HE'S JANET RENO :scared:

Hamma's not big enough to be Janet Reno. That's one big bitch.

[Hexen]

Sooo MrVulcan... Why don't they just preload all textures into the swap before you get ingame? :)

I mean you'd already have all the textures in your game directory somewhere. I'm not very advanced at programming just yet, but whats with "preloading" textures? :p Can't you just show them from the files directly or something?

I'm kinda a newbie programmer right now so forgive my possibly stupid question plz.