New System Explained [Archive] - PlanetSide Universe

Navaron

2003-07-22, 07:27 PM

"I think that it doesn't promote defense at all.
it is hard enough to fid people that will defend a base. Who is going to chase someone down, kill him and guard something. halfway through a hack no one cames anyway. Why? There is no reason to take or hold bases.

We need more reason to defend. The Outfit stuff will help this. But the people I already game with regularly patrol outside of an SOI. Why? Better FPS.

For the first time playing Planetside I can actually say... I am scared for the game. Usually I defend the idea. Now I am not so sure."

This is one of the better replies on the OF about this decision.

This won't help the zerg problem. All it is now is a fox hunt.

I'm re reading it a couple more times to make sure I completely understand what he's saying, but there are a few other issues I dislike.

HOWEVER- this isn't my beef with the dev team and the game. It's the fact that they seem to have no goal, no organization, and they seem completely out of touch with the community. I had questions and worries about the state of the game before this. This whole thing came out of left field, half cocked. It seems like a desparation move. They need a band aid and a scapegoat, and this seems like the perfect item for that.

Now all the fanboys and people who are terrified to ask questions will wig out, and tell everyone who doesn't like it to leave and call them names.

Navaron

2003-07-22, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Gohan_VA
Someone ask how xp is going to be handed. -will the person w/ the llu get the most xp? If so how will massive tk fest be handled? Will the LLU have an small "SOI"?

I would ask my self, but my subscription ran out and i dont plan on renewing it till i get back home..in o a week

I'm wondering what happens when people start waxing the rabbits on their team to get the flag, so their outfit can own the base? What's the precaution there? Guys like ELH or hell, just a 10 person squad can wax the rabbit and not get enough grief for it to matter. Base Ownership>24gps.

Indecisive

2003-07-22, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
I'm wondering what happens when people start waxing the rabbits on their team to get the flag, so their outfit can own the base? What's the precaution there? Guys like ELH or hell, just a 10 person squad can wax the rabbit and not get enough grief for it to matter. Base Ownership>24gps.

Yup, WTF are they thinking? They KNOW that there will be more massive tk fests then in first days of open beta. Killing people to get the hack. Now we wax the fucking horny jackrabbit to get

1. Exp
2. Base ownership

Thing is, im 99% sure that you can only own one base at a time. There will be massive tk fests over the base ownership, but you shouldnt see the same outfit doing it too often. Unless they are jackasses. In which case they can eat energy cells.

Lise

2003-07-22, 07:51 PM

Jeez, after saying that it wouldn't be like 1997 CTF, Spork turns around and more or less describes exactly that in a MMOG setting. I'll probably be cancelling after this - of all the things they could have chosen to do, this is probably the worst.

FliggenMan

2003-07-22, 08:04 PM

This idea seems...strange. Im not sure if it will be effective, but the fact remains that once a base is hacked, a perimeter will be established in short to stop the escaping carrier.

NapalmEnima

2003-07-22, 08:07 PM

From a gameplay perspective, it sounds kinda interesting... from a "world of Auraxis" standpoint, it looks arbirary as hell.

WHY can't you board an aircraft? 'Cause capping would be too easy, yeah. But there's no game-universe reason for it. They could make something up, sure... but that'd be rationalizing after the fact. Hate that.

WHY does it spawn in a random location? Same reasoning, same problem with it.

WHY do you glow when carrying it?

WHY would your vehicle move more slowly?

WHY can't a max pick it up?

BAH!

Navaron

2003-07-22, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by NapalmEnima
From a gameplay perspective, it sounds kinda interesting... from a "world of Auraxis" standpoint, it looks arbirary as hell.

WHY can't you board an aircraft? 'Cause capping would be too easy, yeah. But there's no game-universe reason for it. They could make something up, sure... but that'd be rationalizing after the fact. Hate that.

WHY does it spawn in a random location? Same reasoning, same problem with it.

WHY do you glow when carrying it?

WHY would your vehicle move more slowly?

WHY can't a max pick it up?

BAH!

Why would anyone have combat armor that was bright purple, red, or yellow? ;) Realism hasn't ever been a part of PS. As far as I know, they never even tried to implement a back story for the lattice links.

Peacemaker

2003-07-22, 08:17 PM

Im gonna have to agree with Navarone. This Idea is clever but they didnt put enough thought into it. The only good thing im saying about this is that its a good try to make the game better (at least they try ya know?) But really, it WILL be a massive TK fest.

Arthell

2003-07-22, 08:35 PM

There is going to be so much grief play it will be game-stopping.

PeregineDive

2003-07-22, 08:43 PM

I would like to see how this new system plays out. But I have my doubts, big ones. The TK'ing will be nerve racking I'm sure. So what, now defenders have 2 options in stoping a hack. Maybe it will spread out the battles, who knows? Guess we'll find out

-PD

Headrattle

2003-07-22, 08:43 PM

Thanks for quoting me in the OF Nav.

Anyway. I really believe that there were better ideas out there. This one was just a strange choice. It cam out of the middle of nowhere.

When Smoke talked about bringing the battles out ofthe SOI, my brain brimmed with ideas.

A Switch that turns Lattuce lines on and off. You can't hack a base untill at least one of these lines are on.

A Node that decreases the time till the Hack goes through.

Something like in Tribes where there was a Shield generator outside of the SOI. You have to blow (or hack) the Shield generator in order to bring down the shield that protects the CC.

All of these things would bring the battle out of the SOI. Most of them would do so without the cost of defense.

A strange hibrid of CTF and Rabbit never entered my mind.

EVEN when they came up with the idea, I was hoping that the LLU was a Vehicle. Then you could escort it. All that happens when you hack the CC, is that a Vehicle gets created at the VTerm, and you have to drive it to the nearest friendly base connected to the SOI. Now that would let you create Escorts, and ambushes. plus you would be able to see it and find it more easily.

I usually fight outside of the SOI because I drive a tank. When defending my main thing is to stop reinforcements. So I hunt AMS's, stop AMS's from getting from point A to point B, and if the base is neutral, hunt and kill ANTs.

Now I have to worry about one guy running in the middle of nowhere, instead of actually using tactics in order to break the hack.

I'll play it when it comes out. But I am scared for the game. This has really made me uneasy.

fpmoose

2003-07-22, 08:46 PM

I am really, really not down with this (I posted a huge-arsed rant on Spork's "LLU Explained" thread at http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum8/HTML/008888.html ).

To me it blows away the entire idea of Planetside being a persistent war and turns it into, as somebody else put it, the old schoolyard game of "smear the queer." The war is PS's strongest point, but instead of playing to it they're running from it.

But, I'm a WWIIOL guy, so what do I know. :)

Indecisive

2003-07-22, 08:55 PM

Question of the month:

What the hell are the devs smoking

Navaron

2003-07-22, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by Headrattle
Thanks for quoting me in the OF Nav.

I didn't want to say it was you, as there could have been someone else with the same name. I hope I didn't overstep my boundaries, but many of your ideas mirror mine.

What bothers me more than this, is how it's been pulled out of no where, reaffirming my fears that the devs don't have the same plans for this game that I do (apparently alot of others also).

Headrattle

2003-07-22, 08:57 PM

As far as I know there is only one Headrattle. Anywhere. And I don't mind the attention.

Spork had a reply.

I just wanted to comment on a couple of things here.
First, as per my job, I have spent the time since posting this forwarding feedback to design on the community's opinions. Voices are definitely being heard.

There are a few issues that have been brought up that are the same issues we are taking very seriously. We definitely recognize potential grief scenarios and are putting thought into trying to minimize any kind of this behavior that is possible. That's a challenge, to say the least, but we'll work toward that goal.

As for experience, kills will be pooled that are in proximity to the Module as it is transported. In effect, a mobile SOI that tracks activity occurring in proximity to the Module. The SOI at the base will remain intact.

Obviously, this has become a heated debate, so we are watching the feedback closely. We don't want to implement anything that harms the gameflow and so we will be watching the system on the Public Test Server very seriously as we test it.

Victor Wachter
Community Relations Representative
Many questions can be answered by reading the PlanetSide Game Info and FAQ

If I stepped on anyone's toes, sorry.

Headrattle

2003-07-22, 09:06 PM

Another thing...

There are also things that the kept promising but still haven't delivered. The Bases were promised in Beta. And I said I would wait. It is a worthwhile cause, and the game is very fun right now.

They talked about Continent Benifits, medic love, and more of a reason to defend. They gave us the Medic loven, just not how I expected. It works, it is just a little less then we wanted.

If they just went through with what they promised the game would be so much better! Reasons to defend! Reasons to lock continents and harder to unlock continents! Base Benifits! That would be great....

But they got sidetracked.

They plan on bringing this in. And it is just surprising. Something that was never expected, or, as far as I know, wanted.

Searo

2003-07-22, 09:13 PM

Ughh. This doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm beginning to regret my $120 plan, that's a lot of money to pay for a .3 FPS game of Smear the Queer.

The Zerg is mobile now...

Indecisive

2003-07-22, 09:27 PM

Ah. Mobile soi. I knew it

ONiel

2003-07-22, 09:32 PM

The VS will have an advantage in the fact that the Magrider and Thresher can go quickly over water, versus the slower common pool Deliverer with that ability. I'm not bitching, just bringing up a point.

Another bunch of questions:

Are attackers now able to complete base caps in under 15 min? If the rabbit hops on a baskilisk and arrives at the lattice linked base unmolested and in record time, does the hack simply go through?

How does this affect the current time slice experience system?

Will the defenders know which base the attackers have to return the module to? (Will it be shown on the map?)

If so, can a cap be stopped by sending a solo person or squad to the base a module must be returned to and hacking it? Example: Base A is controlled by NC and is being capped by the TR. The TR own bases B and C, which connect to the lattice to Base A. The TR must return the module to Base B. If Base B is hacked by the NC, can Base A be capped even tho it's still connected to a viable lattice link through Base C? Kinda confusing, I hope you get my point... My suspicion is reverse hacks will ruin a cap.

I like the fact that this will add different tactics to the game. Like the fact that the base a module has to return to will be a PRIME target for the enemy. This base must then be defended, deviding attackers forces in THIRD: Attacking a base, Protecting the rabbit (AKA: TK bait), and keeping the base the module is returned to.

Sounds like base caps will be getting a bit harder and more zergs will happen to ensure they get their 4 and 5k caps, or at least ensure they CAN cap a base.

I may be all wrong on this stuff, I don't have access to the Sony boards. (Damn that proxy server.) Just my thoughts.

Navaron

2003-07-22, 09:36 PM

"The VS will have an advantage in the fact that the Magrider and Thresher can go quickly over water, versus the slower common pool Deliverer with that ability. I'm not bitching, just bringing up a point."

I'm sure the VS won't be able to use it, for some arbitrary reason.

"If the rabbit hops on a baskilisk and arrives at the lattice linked base unmolested and in record time, does the hack simply go through?"

He has to ride, he can't drive.

"Will the defenders know which base the attackers have to return the module to? (Will it be shown on the map?)"

I think so.

"I like the fact that this will add different tactics to the game. Like the fact that the base a module has to return to will be a PRIME target for the enemy. This base must then be defended, deviding attackers forces in "

There won't be any defense at all. THere's still no reason to hold bases, you'll just hunt down the rabbit, and that's the game.

"Sounds like base caps will be getting a bit harder and more zergs will happen to ensure they get their 4 and 5k caps, or at least ensure they CAN cap a base."

More zerg is right.

ONiel

2003-07-22, 09:50 PM

"If the rabbit hops on a baskilisk and arrives at the lattice linked base unmolested and in record time, does the hack simply go through?"

He has to ride, he can't drive.
Ok, good point. Let's say harraser then. It dosen't quite answer the question tho.

My assumption based upon the current time slice experience system would be that there will be some kind of 15 min wait that must occur before base cap is complete, even if module is turned in before then. If that is not the case, will you have to wait at the module's return point for quite a while to ensure your faction gets full experience for the cap (before turning in the module)?

There won't be any defense at all. THere's still no reason to hold bases, you'll just hunt down the rabbit, and that's the game.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. There is a reason to hold a base, and that's to be able to hack the next one for experience. Let's face it, it all boils down to where the next big cap is going to be so you can get your 5k exp. (A cynical point of view no doubt, but none the less true.)

One thing for sure, this will throw people all over the battle field unlike the concentrated battles at bases we're used to. Sounds like it could turn into one big cluster fuck on a continent very easily. Not that I'm bitching. Chaos is fun.

Navaron

2003-07-22, 09:58 PM

I was thinking there's some arbitrary speed cap on vehicles.

EarlyDawn

2003-07-22, 10:01 PM

I was all for this until some arbitrary BS came up about being unable to drive, random LLM spawning in base, Slower vehicles. Now this looks like some unreasonable crap.

Drunken Chicken

2003-07-22, 10:22 PM

It seems like they're grasping at straws and just flat out making stuff up as they go along. Unless it's a strategy to distract the players from a lack of promised content, it makes zero sense. Nobody that I'm aware of wanted a CTF system. A lot of people seem to say things like, "If I wanted CTF, I'd play Quake/UT/Tribes/TFC."

It's great and all that they're trying to think up stuff, but how about implementing platoons and bases. Stuff that should have been in a month ago. Where's the medic stimpacks and regen patches? Facility improvments? Ways to spend outfit points?

I hope that the Devs can get their stuff together. Most people agree that Planetside has a lot of potential, but isn't living up to it. I'd hate for PS to be talked about in 2 years as the Daikatana of MMOG's.

Headrattle

2003-07-22, 10:31 PM

Well, we can take a few things into account.

the Lattice Logic Module will spawn in a random location somewhere in the base and players will be notified of its approximate location.

This depends on where it spawns, but I doubt it will be outside. It will be inside somewhere. Most likely in the basement. It wil tell you where, and I think the battle to get to it would be a good one... under perfect cercumstances. Most present hacks occure when the attackers outnumber the defenders. So you will have a lot of attackers, few defenders.

Meaning that usually the Attackers will not have a hard time getting it.

The player carrying the Module will begin to glow, advertising that they are carrying the Module, and will be marked by a pulsating icon on the proximity map. That player is then unable to drive any vehicles or board any air vehicles. They may be a passenger or gunner in any land vehicle. Land vehicles carrying a player with the Module will have their speed restricted somewhat and be unable to board a Galaxy.

If he didn't already say that the vehicles would have their speed restricted, I would have said that everyone would be jumping into a Harrasser. But now I think it wil be the assault buggy. It might slow down about ten KPH right? so it can go 70 KPH. Sunderers, Lightnings assault buggies and Deliverers will be able to catch it. But the buggy has decent armor. Seems like the best choice. Anything slower will be eaten by tanks.

The effective defense pursuing a moving Module will want to identify and set up forces at any chokepoints that may exist or organize ambushes on the Module carrier. The effective offense will set up a convoy to escort the Module carrier to their destination and send out advance forces to deal with roadblocks set up by the defenders.

I hope you know which base they are supposed to take the LLU, other wise it will be pretty hard to create a blockade. The attacking force will mostly follow the LLU. So you have the group that just kicked your butt, going to another base. You are already behind enemy lines, They just kicked you out of the base. Now you need a force to find a choke point and try to get at the LLU. Too many things to go wrong and too much communication needed. I forsee each squad creating an ambush point, only to either miss the convoy or getting crushed by it. The Attackers need no direction after all. They jsut have to follow the glowing guy. So what can the defenders do? They can get a lot of AirCraft and try to kill it from above. Even the Liberator will be able to outrun the vehicle, no matter what they use.

The defending Empire cannot retrieve a dropped Module that is still active.

So, not you caught the dang thing. No easy chore, but you got him. Now you guard it? For how long? Your Empire just tried defending a base, and failed. Tried finding a LLU, and failed. Now you have to defend it untill it disappears? In the middle of nowhere? With no defenses set up? Looks like the most you can hope for is to keep destroying the LLU untill it deconstructs. Not much defense.

Keep in mind you are already behind enemy lines. They will most likely have the towers in that area. And those guys you killed to get the LLU? That is where they are going to spawn. Where are you going to spawn? AMS? If you can get one there in time. If it survives. Even then you won't have any maxes.

So, instead you have reavers and Liberators hover around it like Vultures. Killing anyone that gets near. Dodging AA Maxes, Strikers, Skyguards, Other Reavers. Out in the open. In the middle of no where.

This just hurt defense. Bad. I would not be surprised if the defenders just didn't chase after it. Instead, captured the tower nearest the base, and waited for the hack to go through. Because once it does. They are on the offensive. And in Planetside the attackers have the advantage.

That is what I am afriad of seeing. If you think something else will happen, please tell me.

Cease

2003-07-22, 10:46 PM

Ok, I have to fess up and admit I was completely wrong. I was excited to hear about this new system. Spork said it won't be your standard pick up and deliver because "thats been done". Yet it *is* your standard pick up and deliver. This *has* been done... by damn near every *mod* made for every FPS since Quake 1.

I'm trying to remain optimistic... but I really don't like this idea at all. This idea is far from innovative.

This makes no sense. If a defending empire can't stop an attacking empire from seiging their base, you know with access to turrets, chokepoints, equip terms, v-terms, etc. Then odds are they won't be able to stop this unit when they don't have access to these things.

Base defense is still completely un-rewarding in this scenario.

Spider

2003-07-22, 10:54 PM

This fucks up something... the time when you have to break a base to neutral before hacking it... where do you bring the damned thing?

And if your on the other side of a linked warpgate... do you have to go to the base on the other side :O_O: so many unconsidered options

Arakiel

2003-07-22, 11:23 PM

XP is irrelevant. There are plenty of good ways in the game to get XP right now - don't start trashing new ideas because they don't include lumping XP onto everyone involved in something.

Searo

2003-07-22, 11:24 PM

Scrap this idea.

It sucks, it will not work, it has turned 50% of the community against you. I will not renew my subscription if what has currently been thought out is still implemented.
I'll buy WoW instead, not "Smeer the Queer on an Epic Scale! Now with Lag Expansion Pack and Stuff Put it that makes no sense!"

Here's my idea.

Staying in a friendly base with a lattice link to an enemy base for 5 minutes starts a "Defense Incentive".

A timer is started, giving you more XP for the number of enemies in the friendly base Sphere of Defence. This would be a larger SOI around the base.

Kills are added to this XP pool. Also, the player recievers x2 the normal XP for that kill.

Ex:There's a platoon assaulting your base. The combined total value of all their soldiers and vehicles in your SOD ends up to be only 1000. But, each member in the platoon dies 1.5 times each. Some guys die once, some three times, etc..
45 kills. With an average of 100 xp a kill, that's 4500 Xp. Too much though, so let's only take a third of it. 2500, not bad.
This would be awarded when a defender left the SOI. But leaving would start the 5 min timer again.

Even if the base was hacked, if you defended it for 20 mins and ended up having to leave the SOI you'd still get the Force Value and Kill Value XP.

Thoughts? OMG THAT's COMPLICATED! Flames? Suggestions?

Airlift

2003-07-22, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by NapalmEnima
arbitrary

EineBeBoP

2003-07-23, 12:15 AM

stupidest thing i've ever heard. they need to stop and think for more then a week before putting in their next patch.
id rather have 1 patch per month, with 3 or 4 new things, that arnt (very) buggy, than have 1 thing coming out every 2 weeks, that fuck up the game.

this thing is stupid anyways, they need more defending of bases, and-- and... i need a drink.:mad:

IDgaf

2003-07-23, 06:38 AM

They're turning PS from a war into a game.

Lonehunter

2003-07-23, 06:53 AM

They might as well call the game capture the flag. I don't care what they say, "It's not really capture the flag." YES IT IS! I did not buy this game to play capture the flag. The idea is not original or creative. It's a last resort to get people back in the game, and all it will do is drop the Planetside population even farther. One thing I enjoy doing is finding a enemy locked continent, draining the power, and hacking it. Can't do that now! Bottom line, this idea sucks AND blows BIG FLOPPY DONKEY DICK!

Edit: Excuse my language but I'm angry

Edit2: MY SIG!! LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN!?!?!? WHY HAMMA WHY?!?!?

Aegis

2003-07-23, 07:48 AM

i think it sounds like it could be quite good. Not gonna complain until i've tried it anyway. As for the TK thing, well if the player with the LLU is going to be highly visible then killing him should cause 1000gp and perhaps a ban for 24 hours or something. That would stop TKing pretty quick. Persistant offender lose their account.

Jounar

2003-07-23, 08:55 AM

This is just a really crap idea. It dosent promote base defence, instead it turns the game into follow the leader. If they do insist on bringing in this "feature" I hope they set up a new server or 2 and allow people to transfer there to play this type of game as I for one didnt sign up for it.

Base defence could be done so well and so easly.
Like the system they have in for base caps only in reverse. At the moment if there are no enemy troops in a base you get bugger all exp. Turn this on its head with a slight change.

Base defenders get a exp hit every 5 - 10 minites when an enemy force is in the SoI. The bigger the force the bigger the exp hit. Seeing as how you can get 5k exp every 15 - 20 minites, give the defenders the same kind of exp. This could be scaleable depending on the amount of defenders and attackers. I belive this would get people to stay and defend a base as stop the total desertion of bases when the zerg move onto the next base.

As for the moron who said exp is not important, well that just fucking rich coming from a BR20 CR5 now isint it.

Navaron

2003-07-23, 09:46 AM

Just FYI, they changed the front page AGAIN, now the words CTF are missing. Who are they trying to fool?

Sonic625

2003-07-23, 10:28 AM

My question is how are you goingto delive the module if you are on a lockdown continent and are hacking the first base?

PrivateMonkey

2003-07-23, 10:39 AM

Everyone can whine their asses off, but this idea isn't all that bad. It is simple, something that 99.9% of other ideas that try to bring action outside aren't.

However, there is one basic flaw here, and I'm almost thinking Spork got the system wrong from the devs. You see, once the attackers reach the core of a base, usually the defenders have all but disappeared. By the time they hack the base, there aren't any defenders around. More importantly, the attackers have probably already taken all the surrounding towers. So what exactly is going to be the challenge in taking the LLU back to your own base? That is to say, why would the enemy be behind your own lines? If you have already reached any enemy base, you have probably taken all the towers on the way. So why would the enemy be there to ambush you? Something in the gameplay logic there is wrong. Why on earth would the enemy set up ambushes near your base? How would they even get troops there? This doesn't make sense.

What does make sense here is having there be some unit or something that you have to take between the bases. This is a good idea, and one that I believe will take the action outside. So here is how it should work:

Instead of having the LLU show up once you hack a base, have the LLU be at your own base on the front lines. In other words, each base you control has an LLU that only your own team can control. Here is what you have to do. You have to take your own LLU to the enemy base. Once you bring it to the enemy CC, you control that base. The same rules apply to the LLU as spork mentioned. However, to dissuade the griefers, there need to be some restrictions. There are two ways about this. Either have it so that anyone can spawn an LLU, or have it so that the LLU must be in a certain proximity of an enemy base to not despawn. I think the battles would be more exciting with only one LLU, but there needs to be a good way to ensure there isn't griefing (taking the LLU to random places).

Madcow

2003-07-23, 10:47 AM

A couple of random thoughts.

I personally like the LLU being placed randomly in the base. You get a general idea where it is, but that bit of randomness can keep things a little bit fresh. Otherwise a squad sends an infil hacker in hoping he gets the hack and the rest of them stand around in the room the LLU will spawn so that they can be off and running the instant it shows up.

I'm not sure base defense will be so impossible, but maybe I'm reading it wrong. It sounds to me like the base attackers (who have obviously overwhelmed the defending force and gotten the hack) then have to split their forces in two. There is the group defending the base and there is the group escorting the LLU. The defenders on the other hand can organize and concentrate on just one of those two. Do they want to try and re-hack the base before the LLU can arrive at it's destination, or do they want to stop the LLU altogether and try to defend it? My main concern there is it sounds like the majority of the battles will still involve the bases. If I'm a defender I'd much rather try to make it to the CC to hack it instead of chasing the damn football around only to have to stand there like an idiot hoping somebody else hacks the base back.

teratravp

2003-07-23, 11:45 AM

personally, this sounds like something that will take any hint of realism and the fighting a war feel and make PS way too well... unreal tournament/quake like. This is the wrong direction from what I was hoping for, maybe some of you wanted this though.

Searo

2003-07-23, 11:49 AM

No one read my post it all...

Instead we're discussing where a thing called a LULU should be placed, and why it's a retarded or good idea to cart this LULU around in the middle of friendly territory.

I'm frustrated.

Jounar

2003-07-23, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by teratravp
personally, this sounds like something that will take any hint of realism and the fighting a war feel and make PS way too well... unreal tournament/quake like. This is the wrong direction from what I was hoping for, maybe some of you wanted this though.

I so agree. PS is just far to new a game to have to be dragging in old ideas like this. PS is turing in the usual online fps where you dont have access to all the toys of distruction right from the start and you have to pay a monthly subscription to boot.

FireWolf22

2003-07-23, 12:03 PM

I do like some of this CTF. I thought that it may bring some of the Battle out into the Fields. I do have some problems with it. This game is suppose to promote tactics. Well then, Tactics are up the the creator. No tactic is a sure thing. A tactic will work until you throw it against an enemy. We use to say something in the Army, See you Objective, plan to over take it, adapter to changes, and excel. I don't like the Idea of you limiting the Things I can do with this LLU. It is my choice to choose tactilly how I can overcome an obstical, so don't tie my hands. I do see where okay they shouldn't be able to cloak and drive. But that shouldn't stop me from loading a harraser up into a gal and taking off. Like a reavor or two can't catch a gal and kill it. Come on.

Also the Locked Cont thing. How do you take a locked cont? I know it has been asked before, I have asked it in another Thread.

I don't think this will stop the zerg. I do think that it will cause a empires defenders to be split into three different locations at one time, good thing. But you will have to zerg in all three locations in hopes of completing the hack. You have to have enough personnel to hold the hacked base, hold the returning base, and cover the rabbit.

Also communications, have said this in another thread. How in the hell will you be able to Communicate all the actions of a zerg, when no squads can communicate with other ones. Okay you use Outfit, but you can't talk between outfits. So you have like 3 or 4 different outfits working to take one base. It will be the biggest Soup sandwich around. I know chaos can be fun, but I like organization. The entire reasoning behind having a military, which is the basis for this game, is organization.

Okay say you have 3 or 4 outfits working to take one base. Who in the hell is covering the other bases. That is the main reason for empires walking through entire cont unopposed and slow game play. Last night, Konried nc, my squad walked through 2 cont completly. One was even a 1 jump from tr sanc. We killed like 5 tr, and maybe 40 Vs. ON the other Conts the Tr and VS were fighting each other. There is a Vast area out there and not enough people to cover any of it. It took us three hours to completly take over both conts.

Oh well I don't think this CTF thing is going to play out that well as is. They really need to rethink this idea, or let some gamers play around with it. All I can say at the moment

Wolf

IDgaf

2003-07-23, 12:15 PM

Private,

That's an interesting idea. Your way means there would be a frontline - the troops pushing to the base and the guys in the base pushing outwards, trying to stop the LLU getting there in the first place.

Presumably there'd always be people on defence in the base itself, since the LLU 'force' would be escorting the unit AND trying to push into the base before the unit got there, clearing out troops.

(If I understand it the base wouldn't be able to be hacked, so the defenders would have the advantage here - always being able to spawn and get armour.)

If one could have multiple LLUS - or decoys - that would mean defence on different fronts.

What hasn't been addressed by Spork is the speed of action in the game re: moving the LLU. I think the idea of slowing it down is to create natural convoys and to allow defenders to set up choke points effectively.

This feels to me like a game (i.e. soccer/rugby) than a war. If this could be an aspect of the game rather than the entireity of it, I think people would be less concerned.

Cease

2003-07-23, 12:34 PM

Well I have had a night to sleep on it... taking a morning shower on it... take my morning drive to work on it... and I still don't like it.

Will I give it a chance? Sure, but like many have voiced here, this takes a 'war/struggle' feel away from the game and makes it feel more like a Rugby with guns.

AcidCat

2003-07-23, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Cease
Well I have had a night to sleep on it... taking a morning this takes a 'war/struggle' feel away from the game and makes it feel more like a Rugby with guns.

I have to agree, personally I have never liked CTF because it has always felt too arbitrary to me ... like who gives a sh!t about some stupid flag? It has always felt like some schoolyard sport in games where I wanted to focus on killing. That kind of game dynamic is certainly not something I want in PlanetSide.

Mold

2003-07-23, 01:36 PM

come on....its the same damn game. The only thing this will do is provide another challenge to capturing a base. Its about the same deal as an ant, and noone hardly escorts or ambushes them. Your still going to try and resecure the hack the old fashion way, at the base CC. Like someone else said....you will be in a relatively safe area behind your lines and will prolly only need the rabit and his harrasser driver. It will prolly be a boring job that noone will realy care to do. The extra exp would be no more then an ant( if any), and not worth the hassle to TK. (im not saying that some idiots wont still do it though)

Just give it a shot before you put it down. Then again...It may suck hamma nuts for all i know....we will see!

Madcow

2003-07-23, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Mold
Like someone else said....you will be in a relatively safe area behind your lines and will prolly only need the rabit and his harrasser driver. It will prolly be a boring job that noone will realy care to do. The extra exp would be no more then an ant( if any), and not worth the hassle to TK. (im not saying that some idiots wont still do it though)

I don't see that happening, if they put a distinct mark on the HUD then every Mossy and Reaver pilot anywhere close to the base will be all over stopping that delivery. If ANTs had a distinct HUD signature they'd probably never make it to a base.

Endless

2003-07-23, 02:27 PM

Not quite sure on my opiion yet, I'll definately have to see what it's like when they test it. Although I think there are other ways to promote getting out of the soi's and defending, such as capturable bridges, the old xp system, and rewards for defending.

ajohn505

2003-07-23, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by ccarlin8
The only problem I see is some guy grabbing it and being a real dick about delivering it. It would be the ultimate grief, even more so than TKing. And there's no way they can guarantee a competent player will get the box, and if they say there is, they're liars. Personally, I think it's a decent idea, but the fact that one guy can ruin a 5k base cap for everyone should kill that idea where it stands.

UP THE XP ON KILLS IN SQUADS!!!!

This could be worse than the idiots blowing the generator after the hack has begun and the base is secure.

Though I am looking forward to finally being able to use my uber basilisk skillz.

X-113

2003-07-23, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by ajohn505
Though I am looking forward to finally being able to use my uber basilisk skillz.

You can't drive vehicles with an LLU.

Not that it matters to me anyway, since my subscription's going down the toilet the second this goes live.

SweetTater

2003-07-23, 05:54 PM

If the defending empire kills the LLU, they are supposed to guard the LLU out in the open with no support until it deconstructs. Personally I think a better idea would be to force the LLU to deconstruct if it's successfully hacked. That way, the defenders would have to protect a hacker for a small amount of time. Since the LLU is out in the open, it will be easier to kill the hacker than it would be in a CC. But I think it would give the defneders a better chance to stop the hack than just stand around the LLU until you're overrun.

Navaron

2003-07-23, 07:46 PM

SporkfirePS
Developer posted 07-23-2003 02:21 PM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely understand the community's concern over the feature. It's substantial and it's a change. However, we also believe that such a system addresses some fundamental issues and that this can offer a great improvement over the current model. While people are bound to disagree, I'd like to ask as many people as possible to try it out on Test Server when we release it there before passing final judgement. We plan on leaving it there for some time to get as much feedback and gather as much data as possible before we call it a complete success and release it to the live servers.
Victor Wachter
Community Relations Representative
Many questions can be answered by reading the PlanetSide Game Info and FAQ

EDIT: The anti lettuce thread just broke 500 posts.

Here it comes and there's nothing you can do to change that fact. We all know the test server is a joke. At least we'll get 16000 xp while we beta test.

Hamma

2003-07-23, 08:07 PM

Its that attitude of "The test server is a joke" which will result in the patch coming out in a less than desirable state.

(That sounded cool)

Navaron

2003-07-23, 08:10 PM

It's the last patch which portrayed the test server as a joke. Not my fault. I put in my time over there, and several times it was me and 2 other guys all alone killing each other so some gm could test something out. I put in my time, and then they get on, have all kindsa fun and hand out xp and invincible ams's but then they released that fubar patch. I'm sorry, but I don't like having a more serious work ethic than the developers.

What sounded cool?

AtomicBanana

2003-07-23, 09:00 PM

heh.. this mod sounds *exacly* like capture the chicken mod I remeber playing all those years ago.. randomly spawning chicken and all :)

The amount of things they have changed for no good reason has just become to many, too quickly. I can accept some to make the game work, lattice lines for example. But all this 'can't do this, can't do that blah blah blah' sounds like them patching holes in an already sinking idea.

it still has potential, and I must hold off comment until then.. but the random choosing of which base it has to go to makes no sense to me at all - and takes a choice away from the player.

If the player could choose which linked base, they could set up defences in advance.. plan ahead. But if it's random, they're just going to go 'fuck it, zerg boys!' and then all scrabble back to the base to get the exp from the base and the mini soi.

have to see how it goes :)