CEPs

[Sputty]

If you get CEPs how will you become an actual "commander". What will be your responsibilities? What defines that person as a commander and what advantage does he have as that?

[snipe]

when you get enough CEP ranks, you will be consideed a command. This means that you have sucsessfuly completed a great amount of missions. When you become a commander, you get to enter a chat room with other commanders from your empire.

[Hamma]

They get some other toys too. Should be hearing more on this soon :D

[sPooT]

And I think dave said in the gamespot interview that rank 4 and 5 commanders can do continent-wide broadcasts..

[Navaron]

Badass

[Zatrais]

Is it possible to have max BEP's for then to switch to CEP's? or is there a total cap on how manny points a char can have?

Annyone know?

[glsauron]

BEPs and CEPs are compeltely seperate. Earned differently, different abilities, different concepts. No moving from one to another :)

You want BEPs kill somebody
You want CEPs get a team and take a base :)

I dont know if theres a total limit on points added together, but it'd make sence that a great commander CAN be a great fighter if he wants. But a big time commander would be too busy to fight most of the time.

[Hamma]

Its all up to you, if you want to sit back and be a commander u can do that, but if u want to get into the thick of things there is nothing stoping u :p

[Coliostro]

Are we certain that the only way to get CEPs is to command a squad who successfully takes over a base? It's good in one way and horrible in another. It's good in that it will severely limit the amount of people with command abilities because CEPs are so difficult to get. It's bad for the same reason. I was thinking the commander of a squad should get some amount of CEPs for each kill his squad gets. Let's say a person gets 10 BEPs for one infantry kill, maybe the commander should get 1 CEP for that kill. 50 BEPs for a tank or aircraft kill, 5 CEPs for the commander.

Thoughts?

[glsauron]

the ONLY way to get CEPs is to be in command of a squad who takes a base. So 99% sure the hacker has to be in your squad. If you have a squad in the area, and help grab it, but the hacker is a seperate squad, your screwed for CEPs, but you still grab BEPs at the same rate as everybody else in your squad.

[Warborn]

Hm. Several months down the line I'd imagine you'll be seeing people playing the part of Commander simply to get the uniform alterations that go along with having a lot of CEP. And, of course, the chat channels and other Commander functions. Point is that I don't think it's such a good idea for BEP and CEP to be separate. You really should only be able to have a max BEP and CEP combined total of 20, otherwise given enough time, those who actually are Commanders will be as good as the best soldier, and those who are the soldiers will have the uniform and capabilities of a Commander -- even though they don't really command.

You have more than one character slot. If you want a soldier, make a soldier. Or get a few levels of battle experience for some combat ability, and then go all-out with the CEPs -- making you a good Commander, but with limited combat versitility (you could get by in battle if you just bought Reinforced Armor and the Assault cert, for instance).

[Warborn]

Originally posted by glsauron
the ONLY way to get CEPs is to be in command of a squad who takes a base. So 99% sure the hacker has to be in your squad. If you have a squad in the area, and help grab it, but the hacker is a seperate squad, your screwed for CEPs, but you still grab BEPs at the same rate as everybody else in your squad.

When a base is turned to your side I'm sure everyone in that base's sphere of influence will get experience. If they're in the Commander role, they'll get CEP. If they're just fighting or whatever, they get BEP. That's how I'd do it, anyway. Not fair to everyone else if only the guy who happened to have the person who hacked the base in his Squad got CEP for it.

[Sputty]

Yeah, Commanders will probalby sniper targets anyway.

[Warborn]

So, what, a sniper won't shoot you if you don't have Commander markings?

[Sputty]

Well, they'll goa fter commanders more than normal soldiers...they will be more important so a good sniepr would target the commander and try to make that attack less coordinated

[Hamma]

Unfortunatly we dont know a ton about CEP's :(

[Sputty]

:( ...Maybe we'll learn more soon

[glsauron]

I like only commander gets credit. The grunts are there for that, doing the grunt work. Also limits the number of people you see running around with super duper maxxed out CEP badges, you know?

Its a status symbol, I've been good enough as a commander to max my CEP, so I've been good. You, OTOH, have decided you want to kill people. Nothing wrong with it, but you dont get the CEP boss status. Just like a good commander wont be fighting and get BEP status.

People will find that the good commanders will find time to cap lots of bases, so they get more rank. If no good, will only cap a few, so they won't rise in rank. And you can't steal caps either :)

[NapalmEnima]

Oh but you CAN steal caps.

Say you've got a multi-squad group capping a base. One squad's staying outside, keeping reinforcements at bay, one is keeping the spawning tubes bottled up, and the last one is in charge of actually taking the base.

Only the outside squad's commander is sick of everyone else getting all the glory... so he sends all his guys in to cap the base in advance. They take turns TKing so no one guy gets too many grief points. You get the idea. So they weaken the empire's effectiveness as a whole for the personal glory (or at least CEP) of their squad's commander. Only now no one's outside, reinforcements show up unopposed (and without warning), and NO ONE gets the CEP.

I think we can all agree that would suck.


But wait there's more! What about defense?

What motivates a commander to hold what he's (or she's) taken? Jack sheet. So the offense is organized, and the D is just whoever happens to be there. Not much fun taking bases away from disorganized rabble. All everyone will ever do is attack. Defence is for people who aren't interested in command points.

Suck? Yup.

I raised this issue on the official boards earlier. I see a problem with the only command points coming from offense. Smokejumper replied only that they were aware of the issue and were working on it. And that I was obviously a brilliant person for thinking of the problem in the first place. :p

Suits me.

Not that I wouldn't mind more details, but if that's all they can give me at this point, so be it.

[Airlift]

So they could just give a very few cep to all squad leaders inside the base (or its soi) for taking the base and give more over time to all squad leaders near the base based on the amount of action in a soi.

Or they could give no cep immediately for taking a base, then give the cep over time to the commander(s) who captured the base.

[SmokeJumper]

Hey there, Napalm. It's been a while since I responded to one of your discussions, so here goes:

1) Can't steal caps. Facilities currently have to be "claimed" by someone in order for the cap to generate experience. This system is still imperfect and that's why we haven't elaborated on it, but we are working to allow squads or platoons to "claim" a facility and then get the chance to cap it within a certain window of time. If they fail, then the claim can be taken by someone else. There are obvious annoyances with this scheme and it's subject to change/refinement, but we realize the problem with "stealing caps".

2) Defense is cool. But you're right...I don't think we'll see much in the way of static defense (as you would in Tribes 2) where players camp out and do nothing but deploy defenses and fight incoming enemies. My guess is that we'll see more of "roving patrols". Squads, or half-squads, that patrol in Deliverers, tanks and buggies, who respond to "The XXXX facility has been hacked" messages and fight back against folks trying to attack those bases. We'll see. What's the advantage to defense? Your targets come to YOU and you can shoot at them from behind walls and from within your nested defenses. I know that *I* would play Defense for a while if I got spanked in Offense or I just wanted a change of pace. And the battles will be very easy to find soon. We have some new stuff going in soon that will help folks find the great battles (useful for defense AND offense).

By the way...nice eye for tactics assigning someone to the spawn tubes to keep defenders from respawning there. It's suprisingly difficult to do, but a good tactic. Defensive AMSs are pretty useful for getting around this tactic...but then again...if they respawn at an AMS, they're not in the building with you anymore...

P.S., If there are three squads taking over a base, they should probably join together as a platoon so they can all get CEP and BEP. I can't help you beyond three squads, but platoons are useful for that number of squads and below.

P.S.S., Answering the original post on this thread: Yes, you can max out in both BEP and CEP. You can work on gaining either of those totals at any time during your career, at any time. No restrictions. (Don't worry though. If your concern is "What do I do after I cap out?" we have lots of things planned for you. Details on those items will have to wait however.)


Edit: I removed the comment about vets and newbs. Upon further reflection, I felt it was innappropriate and not even accurate, so I took it out. (Was under the paragraph about defense.)

[Camping Carl]

All hail Dave!!!

[Hamma]

So Platoons have been added :D

Thanks for the reply dave ;)

[Navaron]

So there's nothing bigger than platoons, I wonder if this is because of the fact there will be too many places to defend, so it will be impossible to gather that many people or just so there are UBER brigades.

[powdahound]

:thumbsup:!!!

[Airlift]

Anyone know how many people make a squad?

[Sandtaco]

:rawr:

[Airlift]

I'm going to guess 15 for a squad so no one on a loaded galaxy gets left out of a squad?

[Hamma]

Somewhere around there, 10-15

[Airlift]

So, assuming that 3 squads is a platoon, that makes the most BEP/CEP efficient operating group 30-45 people based on those numbers.

[IAmButAPawn]

Squads are going to be 10.
Galaxy passenger capacity = 6 grunts, 2 maxes and a buggy with 2 people.
It would be ridiculous to not be able to transport a full squad in the largest vehicle.

[Airlift]

By those numbers, the pilot and three gunners will be left out at the very least.

[Marsman]

Originally posted by IAmButAPawn
Squads are going to be 10.
Galaxy passenger capacity = 6 grunts, 2 maxes and a buggy with 2 people.
It would be ridiculous to not be able to transport a full squad in the largest vehicle.

Total capacity for a galaxy is actually up to 15. 1 pilot, 3 gunners, 6 passangers, 2 Max and a small vehicle which can hold 2 or 3 people depending on the vehicle. :cool:

[Airlift]

Ok, I'm thinking like this.. You have 3 squads to a platoon. I'm going to set one aside for later and try to fill up 2 galaxies. If I can put 15 people in a squad, that means 1 galaxy = 1 squad, easy as pie, and the leftover squad will go into mosquitos and reavers for cover. That is a good operational group, and would be relatively simple to manage.

On the other hand, if a squad is 10 (and I'm afraid it is), it would be 1 squad in each galaxy plus each crew of 4, meaning that I could either put a third person in each buggy (for that one 3 man buggy) or field an entire 2 aircraft for cover and support. Now, if you forego the 2 man buggy and only carry lightnings or light buggies you can field a total of 4 reavers/mosquitos. That is marginally workable for covering two transports, but it is far from ideal.

So from an airbourne perspective, it means the difference between struggling with the squad system or having room to spare.

[eMaGyN]

Originally posted by SmokeJumper
"The XXXX facility has been hacked"

I'll be in charge of the XXXX facility :D

rawr

/me cracks da whip

:love:
eMa

[NapalmEnima]

A dev thinks I rock.

Pardon me while I go into a savagely geeky fanboy freakout.

:bouncy: :cool: :dance: and so on and so forth


Okay... now that that's out of my system, let's see if we can't disect some of the things SJ said.



P.S., If there are three squads taking over a base, they should probably join together as a platoon so they can all get CEP and BEP. I can't help you beyond three squads, but platoons are useful for that number of squads and below.


Platoons share both CEP and BEP. That's new. Now we don't know if it's the same as the inter-squad sharing.

From what I've read, squads essentially multiply the total amount of BEP from a given kill. Rather than 1 person getting 100 BEP (or whatever), 10 people get that same 100 BEP. If I'm right (and I generally am. Remember, I rock :p) then there's no reason NOT to be in a squad, and the bigger the better. This encourages people to get together in groups, the beginnings of teamwork.

I wouldn't be suprised to find that sharing across a platoon is reduced to some degree. Otherwise there is very little difference between a platoon and a Really Big squad (with 3 commanders).

Thus endeth the wild conjecture.


2) Defense is cool. But you're right...I don't think we'll see much in the way of static defense


SJ thinks I rock. This is actually the second time He has responded to something I've posted like this. Sadly, they're both covering basically the same subject (CEP coming only from capping, and issues it may cause). I don't think I'm nearly as cool as I think I am. :huh:


By the way...nice eye for tactics assigning someone to the spawn tubes to keep defenders from respawning there. It's suprisingly difficult to do, but a good tactic


SJ thinks I rock. Is anyone actually laughing at this stuff? Is this thing on? ;)

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of camping the hall(s) outside the spawning champer, with all manner of deadly mayhem. The more MAXes the merrier. Throw in a couple medic/engineer types to keep the heavies healthy and happy, and away you go. Maybe an advanced hacker to swipe a nearby inventor terminal too. Keep everyone in ammo (and med packs and engineer/medic reload thingies). A medical terminal wouldn't hurt either.

I don't expect too many people would be willing to stick their heads out into the hall when a couple Pounder MAXes are locked down at either end of the hall, ready to fill the entire passage with SCREAMING DEATH!!!

:twisted:

And with a handy inventory terminal, they can pretty much fire continuously, not needing to worry about running out of ammo. That'd put a dampener on anyone even remotely interested in going out that door.

So all you have to do is wait for those 15 minutes to tick away, and keep out the reinforcements. I'd expect just a few drop pods to show up. Just a few... DOZEN. So those anti-reinforcement guys had better be riding in some pretty heavy duty stuff. Reavers, tanks (MBT or Lightening), that sort of thing. And a couple skeeters wouldn't hurt either. It's nice to have grunts show up on radar.

So in conclusion: SJ thinks I rock.

This is funny stuff here! (crickets chirp in the background). I can hear you breathing!

[Hamma]

:lol:

[�io]

Originally posted by {{eMaGyN}}
I'll be in charge of the XXXX facility :D

rawr

/me cracks da whip

:love:
eMa


:brow:

http://fmc.animecity.nu/emoticons/zzwhip.gif

[Tobias]

What about laying mines in the spawning room,that would be fun.

[NapalmEnima]

I'm pretty sure you can only lay mines in a friendly SOI. So no mining the enemy spawn chamber. Or I would, believe me.

[Airlift]

I didn't think you could use inventory terminals in a base that is not controlled by your empire...

[Coliostro]

I thought that someone with Advanced Hacking could turn the terminal to your side and make it usable? Maybe I'm wrong

[Sputty]

I've never head of anyhitng like that...Could happen though even though tot ake over a terminal wouldn't they ened to control the base as well?

[NapalmEnima]

Originally posted by Sputty
I've never head of anything like that...Could happen though even though to take over a terminal wouldn't they ened to control the base as well?

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say there... a little proof-reading please.

I think this will answer your question though. From this very site, follow the "Cerifications" link from the side bar:

Advanced Hacking
Like Hacking, but also allows the use of enemy-held equipment terminals, air vehicle terminals and ground vehicle terminals.

Lots of good stuff floating around PSU.

[Tobias]

Bah! But NapalmEnima you cant expect us to go and read info about the game! We would have to many informed posts. And we all know the worst thing in the world is a post with a little bit of information.

[Ludio]

SmokeJumper, you said that it was suprisingly difficult to keep defenders from respawning, I was wondering if you could expand on that comment a bit?

The reason I ask is that I am worried about possible scenarios where an attacking team simply has to wipe out the defenders and then assign most of the squads to camp the spawn tubes. Do respawns happen en-mass or are they individual? Also is there a small safety zone where attackers cant go so that defenders have a bit of breathing room after respawning? If so would this be like TFC where there are rooms with locked doors and sentry turrets, or like Global Ops where attackers are instantly killed if they get too close to the respawn zone.

I understand that there will be forces arriving from outside the base to help with defense, and that the defenders could respawn outside as you said, but I imagine the majority of the defenders will be respawning at the base for most of the battle and defenders coming from outside have a distinct tactical disadvantage, much like attackers.

This post by NapalmEnima also worries me:

And with a handy inventory terminal, they can pretty much fire continuously, not needing to worry about running out of ammo. That'd put a dampener on anyone even remotely interested in going out that door. So all you have to do is wait for those 15 minutes to tick away, and keep out the reinforcements.

Although this is a relief:

I'm pretty sure you can only lay mines in a friendly SOI. So no mining the enemy spawn chamber.