LLU Discussion

[Navaron]

I just logged off the test server. I gotta say, it's about what I expected, and implemented the same as I thought.

Here's what happened.

I log on into Voltan. I check the map. Some guy's got the next base's LLU In the middle of the ocean. Great. Now I'm thinking it might have been a bug (suprise) because about 2 minutes later, that facility was captured. So I jog up to Acan, and after 3 doors that wouldn't open, I came around the back way and got into the basement. So I hack the console. LLU has been spawned take it where ever in ten minutes. So I look on the map, ok. After about three minutes I find it in the Medical room, but the map shows it actually about 5 feet inside the wall. So I get it. It gives me a message telling me where to take it. So off I jog, pulsing like a lighthouse. I've got 6 minutes to get there.

I come across a VS and he wacks me cause I didn't see him. No prob, I got a tower right there, I respawn, and he's just standing there on the LLU, so I kill him and keep going, cause he doesn't have any health when I get to him. (Which means it's going to be pud to just wax the defenders of the LLU cause they have to stay out in the open). Off I go. So I get to the base with 2 minutes to spare, but I can't get in the front door, so I have to go around, but then I pop it in the CC, and there we go. 187 exp if you were curious.

However, it never tells you to take it to the CC, just take it to Acan.
There's new icons, like little flags on the bases (not the hacked ones, those are still there) and little icons that look like watch faces. Anyway I have no clue what they do (I'm guessing that they are for the bases you have to camp at and the bases you have to ferry).

All in all, there's no point to the LLU. It's not more fun, and it doesn't address any of the issues people are complaining about. It's not neccessarily bad, it's just CTF instead of King of the HIll. I'm a fan of CTF. My main beef with this is that it has absolutely nothing to do with fixing the problems with this game, and it's going to create a plethora of new ones. It makes me worry about the dev teams focus, or what they think is wrong with the game.

EDIT: In case it matters I had a 109 ping, 140 fps and almost no packet loss.

[Cease]

My main beef with this is that it has absolutely nothing to do with fixing the problems with this game, and it's going to create a plethora of new ones.

Bingo! My thoughts exactly. We haven't even begun to deal with all the exploits that are going to come out of this new system.

[EarlyDawn]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
However, it never tells you to take it to the CC, just take it to Acan.

Well, I don't know if anything changed overnight, but when I tried it in an empty base last night, it defenitely told me to go to the CC, or so I remember.

I agree with the sentiment that it will cause new problems, and I'd like to see some of the more relevant updates put in first. (Outfit Bases, facility links)

[Sputty]

Sounds shitty

[Mazzic]

Looks to me like it forces you to use vehicles.

I'd say it was pretty obvious that its not more fun if you are hacking an undefended base. But, if you are in the middle of a huge conflict. That could be some major fun. Bridge Choke point battles. Vehicle collums. Trying to Punch thru the enemy lines. Vehicles are under used anyway. It'd be cool if they were somthing more than Rocket Magments or Battering Rams.


Base Defense and Facility Benefits would nice to add too.

[knifeman2005]

Personally i think the LLU sucks. I preffer just sitting and gaurding the cc instead of doing something else. I always though that it was hard enough to get into the cc in the first place. I dont think it should be perminently put it in. I think less people will play becuase of this. I know im not going to stop playing becuase of just a little change, but still this update is the death of us all and the downfall. I have to admit the first couple of times its cool cause ure not sitting around and just waiting for the timer to hit 00:00. But even with that in place it gets really old having to keep going from base to base.

PS should change this update but keep the lasher tone down. I have to say the VS are still to powerful. We need an update that will just take them completly down to our level and keep them their. Either that or make the NC stronger. The only way we have a chance against the VS is to attack them in massive numbers. Does anyone else agree with me??? I hope so, and just to tell you VS i dont want ure opinion on this so even if you do make a statement on this is wont matter. You know why because you are starting to make me extremely angry and I hope that the PS people do something about this.

Thats all i have to say except take that GOD DAMN LLU thing off PS its not worth the trouble and we need it to be the same way again so please DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
:mad: :mad:

[snypz]

my favorite type of game has always been ctf, but this is just horrible, i hate it :mad:, i didn't mind sittin in the cc for 15 minutes, i'm also confused about how to get xp, i mean do u have to be in the soi of the hacked base and the base that the llu is takin to to get 5k? i'm thinkin about cancelin my account

[ghost018]

Any mods reading....delete this post please. Accidently posted twice.

ghost

[SecondRaven]

OK the LLU is going to cause more problems then it is going to fix. Im not going to whine about it but it will hinder people from playing in some respects. I just hope Dev does not put this in the next patch

[ghost018]

Lot's of people complained about the Lattice System when it first introduced back n beta. Me being the newb I used to be, was one of them. I was used to sitting in an empty base CC where I would fight off maybe three or four enemy players. But after playing in the largest battle I had ever been in on Gunuku, Cyssor...I realized that it wasn't such a bad idea. Spork has stated that this system won't replaced the base capture system we're used to, but is merely something to add variety to the game. Give the LLU system time, maybe you'll open your eyes and see that it isn't all that bad.

ghost

[Ghost06]

I think the LLU system will ad variety, and a whole new fun factor to the game. You can still still sit in your CC for 15 minutes killing a few stragglers once all the towers are taken, and AMS's destroyed, or the choice to battle at choke points such as bridges etc. trying to bring an LLM to a base. Sounds like a blast to me... I think people are just afraid of change.

[Trebor95]

The LLU will take battles out of the SOI which is good, it will allow for ambushes to be set and provides defenders with better chance.

Say you have a force of 100, there are loads of possibilities, 50 could stay at the CC while 50 go with the LLU leaving the defenders with an advantage hopefully as 50 units in the field caught in an ambush by say 20 30 troops wont last long, however send more with the LLU means a direct assault on the CC is likely to succeed and the hack will be broken.

Great addition to the game imo, not too hard to fathom and tactics are basically going to mean scouts, the defenders will need to know what tactic to use through use of cloakers/mossies/harassers. These scouts will be able to relay information on the troop movements accompanying the LLU person, or whether the CC is lacking any decent defense.

Saying that the defenders will have to act quick, 10minutes is the margin for error, and I envisage NC or TR forces on islands with bridges having great difficulty with transporting the LLU meaning more forces will have to diverted away from the CC to help push through the ambushes setup by the defenders.

VS will have the advantage of hover craft, however they will be very vulnerable to reaver/liberator attack and if over water the vehicle is destroyed the LLU sinks to the sea bed meaning it is unretrievable meaning a failed hack :) bet ya didnt think of that :)

[Strygun]

I'm gonna sticky this thread. Let's try to keep all LLU discussions to one main thread...

[EarlyDawn]

I don't know, I like the LLU, don't think it's really been seen at it's greatest until we see some raid-sized battles going for a CTF cap. But I would have defenitely prefered that the other additions went in first.

[Hamma]

Is it just on the test serv now? :eek:

[Endless]

I have yet to try it so I can't give my opinion on it just yet. But all you people who say you're tired of sitting in the soi waiting for the hack exp, I laugh at. Yeah, there needs to be some people defending, but once the fighting is done, you no longer need to be there to get the exp. It seems as if alot of people fail to knw this.

[CrazyCrazy]

Well I haven't tried it yet either, but I am tomorrow. As far as all your statements about bugs you have to remember, IT IS A TEST SERVER. The whole reason for putting it on test is to work out the bugs, kinks, and minor adjustments before it gets into the official servers. and the amount of people on the test server will not compare to what we will see in the real game, which adds a whole different dynamic. Either way, I'm glad they put this in. You have to keep the game fresh, otherwise it gets to be routine and boring. This is exactly what they are doing.

[Doppler]

This will make defense even harder, you just got your ass kicke,d the enemy is most likely zerging you, they all have lashers and magriders (yes i'm biased but I play on johari where there is more VS on at some times of the morning then NC and TR combined. Now you have to not just try and chase them down, but get ahead of them to set up an ambush, I got an idea, lets put in all the fratures we've been promising since way back in the day (loadmaster, platoons, better tactical refinements) then work on some new idea that is going to fuck with the established gameplay model that most people will agree works.

[MrVulcan]

I have yet to test it (getting patch now)

however......

"The defenders will have two options for resecuring the base. Either stop the carrier from reaching the destination COntrol Console or make their way into their own CC room to resecure, just like the current model."

well that sorta defeats the entire thing dosnt it?

What reason do the defenders have for running after it, all they have to do is get to the cc?

so..... we went from people sitting in a base... to .. futile running around unless base is 100% secure by many people sitting in the base waiting.... *so we are now forced to wait in the base, insted of just going to the next one*

ok... im confused on why this would be better.....

[Kuraltai]

Originally posted by Doppler
This will make defense even harder, you just got your ass kicke,d the enemy is most likely zerging you, they all have lashers and magriders (yes i'm biased but I play on johari where there is more VS on at some times of the morning then NC and TR combined. Now you have to not just try and chase them down, but get ahead of them to set up an ambush, I got an idea, lets put in all the fratures we've been promising since way back in the day (loadmaster, platoons, better tactical refinements) then work on some new idea that is going to fuck with the established gameplay model that most people will agree works.
I agree with you about the VS population on Johari .. I'd much rather face a Jackhammer noob NC than the Lasher any day! :rolleyes:
I haven't tried the LLU setup yet, hopefully tomorrow, but the idea does sound promising for a change in capture process, especially empty bases. :D
I would like to see the base benefits online soon. Platoons and tactical refinements would greatly benefit the LLU style of capture. Have they introduced any of this on the test server?

[MilitantB0B]

People keep saying that this will bring battles out of the SOI, and although that is a great thing for gameplay, it is a bad thing for XP. I know the game isn't about XP, but about killin, but still, how do they plan to supplement the fact that the enemy isn't in the SOI but chasing your runners.


EDIT: just to add a wish that the devs make bases more defensible like they said they would. :( /em waits.

[snypz]

what ppl r gonna start doin is takin the LLU and gettin in there little misquto and fly away over the ocean so that no one can get him unless they shoot him down, u all know that's gonna happen a few times

[Madcow]

Originally posted by snypz
what ppl r gonna start doin is takin the LLU and gettin in there little misquto and fly away over the ocean so that no one can get him unless they shoot him down, u all know that's gonna happen a few times

You can't drive a vehicle, only be a passenger. Looks like this will get people certing in lib or gal a lot more, makes a lot more sense to take to the air rather than facing all the ground troops as well as all the air vehicles plus you don't have to deal with terrain.

[CrazyCrazy]

Originally posted by snypz
what ppl r gonna start doin is takin the LLU and gettin in there little misquto and fly away over the ocean so that no one can get him unless they shoot him down, u all know that's gonna happen a few times


If you read the notes, you will see that the LLU carrier cannot drive any vehicle, and cannot even board an aircraft.



Anyways, I tried it it now. It has some potential, but the current design has major issues that would be horrible if put in the real server (not just talking about bugs).


Overall, it is far too difficult for the hacking empire to get the base, and far too easy for the defenders to stop the hack. The defenders basically have two options. One is to attack the base, and resecure the CC as normal. The second is to stop the LLU from getting to its target in the time limit. The only option for the hacking side, is to get the LLU to the target CC in a fixed time limit.

Basically this means, the hacking side MUST split their forces up, while the defender's can can either zerg the hacked base, camp at the target base, or chase the LLU carrier down and surround the LLU once its dropped. Since everyone gets the message of where the target base is as soon as it is hacked, the second option would be the easiest. The only way the hacking side can win is if they have triple the numbers of the defending side. They would need one group to defend the hacked cc, one to defend the target base, and one to escort the LLU carrier.

Oh did I also mention, if the target base goes neutral, you lose the hack instantly? I don't know what happens if the hacked base goes netral, but this is a huge problem.

I think they need to make several changes to this system in order to make it reasonable. Here a few:

1) remove the defender's ability to resecure the base by simply hacking the cc. Replace it with the ability to pick up the LLU, and return in to the hacked cc, within the same time limit as is required for the hacking side to get it to the target. All the same rules for the LLU carrier should apply. This would make it closer to true CTF, and probably a lot more fun.

2) increase the time limit. 10 minutes is not nearly enough, considering you have to find the stupid thing first, move slower, are glowing, flash on the radar, cannot use air transportation, and cannot drive your own vehicle, and you have to fight your way across terrain, get into the target base and get to its cc. It should be 25 minutes, or vary based on the distance of the target base.

3) Do not make the LLU randomly spawn somewhere in the base. It should be at a fixed locaiton in the cc room, and should appear as soon as the cc is hacked.

4) reduce the amount of bases that use the LLU system. I was on hossin, and it appeared that all the interlink facilites, bio labs, and tech plants were LLU bases. It should just be interlink facilties and tech plants, or maybe even just one or the other. Even with the other changes I suggested, capturing an LLU base is far more challenging than it is to resecure it. Therefore, it should only represent a few bases on each continent. I choose these two becuase technology plants are the most desired bases, and should be more challenging to capture. Interlink facilities just make sense to use an LLU.

5) If either the hacked base, or target base go neutral, instead of it automatically stopping the hack, the LLU carrier should not be able to insert it at the target base until it is refilled ( or if the hacked base is the neutral one, that must be refilled first). If either base is not resuppied within that time limit, the hack doesn't go thru. Since the LLU carrier must still deal will the time limit, I think this is reasonable.

6) Fix my station account to work corrcectly on the forums so I can put this on the official forum, self bump it, and bug the hell out of sporkfire.


//edit

I forgot to add that this feature hasn't been included yet:

"The friendly facility that the carrier has to take the LLU back to is one that is one lattice link away and secure at the time. If there are no secure friendly facilities at the time, then the base will not be an LLU base, but will use the current Hack and Hold."

//edit again

Right now, LLU facilites appear to be fixed, although I don't know what hapeens when one goes neutral.

I don't think they should implement the above feuature, since it would still allow you to go behind enemy lines, drain an LLU base to neutral, and since you have no linked friendly facilites, it would convert to a normal base. If you took my #4 suggestioon, and then also kept LLU bses fixed, it would limit the selction bse drainers could choose from.

I also think they need to change the way matrixing panels repair and drain NTU at such a fast rate, and also put in base-lattice bonuses, before putting the LLU system into effect.

[JF-Wolf]

well you can't say your final thoughts until its actually in the game because otherwise they are still testing it and can change anything about it whenever they want.

[CrazyCrazy]

Originally posted by JF-Wolf
well you can't say your final thoughts until its actually in the game because otherwise they are still testing it and can change anything about it whenever they want.


True, but in order for the devs to change it BEFORE it becomes official, it wil require input from the people who tried it in test. That's part of the reason why they have a public test server.

[noxious]

I must say I'm rather curious. I think 9 times out of 10 the defenders will rescure CC as opposed to chase down LLU. I do think there are more pressing matters the dev team should be dealing with.

[MuadDib]

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
People keep saying that this will bring battles out of the SOI, and although that is a great thing for gameplay, it is a bad thing for XP. I know the game isn't about XP, but about killin, but still, how do they plan to supplement the fact that the enemy isn't in the SOI but chasing your runners.

The LLU Unit projects a small SOI around it on Test that counts the battle around it in addition to the fighting at the base SOI. So the devs I think have covered. I think the SOI of the LLU needs to be increased for the ZOI idea implamented.

[Doppler]

Personaly crazy, I'm all for the defenders having more power. Defenders should always have the home gorund advantage, if this gives them that it ill be one relatively bright spot in an overall somewhat bleak outlook.

[CrazyCrazy]

Originally posted by Doppler
Personaly crazy, I'm all for the defenders having more power. Defenders should always have the home gorund advantage, if this gives them that it ill be one relatively bright spot in an overall somewhat bleak outlook.


The home field advantage has some benefits, but the way its set up now, the only way for the attacking army to win is to have 3X the size of the army as the defenders, which just means more zerging, and less strategy. It still doesn't affect homefield advantage as far as continents are concerned, only bases. Actually it makes thing worse.


Think about it. It still relatively easy for someone to go to an empty continet and cap an LLU base, or get on in the wee hours when no one is on. Now, that LLU you worked so hard for to cap a few hours ago, was taken away by a 2-man team when no one was on, and you have to go thru it all over again.

This will make things especially tough on NC, since their home continents are the most popular places to go. Imagine having to run a LLU form base to base in ceryshen. No air tranpsotation allowed, remember. It will become even less popular to go to than it is now. TR will basically hold onto ceryshen indefinitely, and NC will be kept defending their home turf over and over again.

I'm not totally against the LLU idea, I just think what they have now is far too unbalanced in favor of the defenders. Even with the changes I proposed, The defenders still the option to camp the target base, chase the carrier down, or make one of the bases go neutral, and prevent an ant from getting there in time. The hacker still only has the option of getting the LLU to the target base in a fixed time limit. I didn't suggest any changes to the restricitons the LLU carrier has either. I didn't take away home field advantage, I just suggested it be more reasonable.

Please try it out on the test server and then give a more thoughtful response.

[MrVulcan]

After playing, I see that there are some major problems with the system, however I belive that if they did the following it would be a very nice improvement over the current system

1. Make it so the defence can not rehack their cc to stop the llu, right now it defeats the entire reason to have the llu since it forces many people to just sit and wait all over again.

2. The time limit needs to be changed. My idea is give it 15 min to get to a base *since you move so slow*, but if it is droped for 5 min, it ends the hack (so the defence dosnt have to just sit and wait)

There are other things that I think should be changed but they can be argued both ways and arent as large of an issue.

[RedArrow]

I think the DEV team is focusing on the fact that it dosen't look like alot of people are going to keep playing PS over the next 6 months. So the DEV Team is scrambling like crazy to get enough content into this game to hold every ones interest for longer. Longer you play the more $$$$$ they get. My opion on why they are more focused on adding more and not as much on bugs.

Different topic: I think that this LLU is a cool idea but the Vanu defintly have a large advantage over the other 2 armys. They have a Mag and Thresher that can cross water easy and TR and NC only have a deliverer. Sounds kind of rough to me. But Like I said they are mix stuff up a bit, I like that.

[BigTexas]

Vulcan, the whole point of the LLU is to make caps shorter, yes, there are still going to be people who have to sit back and defend, but the time they have to do so will be greatly reduced Making the process of a base capture quicker will only make this game better, as bases will change hands faster and more often. Personally, I love the idea of the LLU, and I dont think we will see how well it really stands up until it gets on the play servers.

With that said, now its time for me to bitch and start the nerf talk

The VS have the Thresher and Magmower which can glide over water and evade those in pursuit more easily than other vehicles.

The TR can camp a few pounders in the CC and make the rehack for the most part impossible, as the forces will be spilt between chasing the LLU as well as attempting the rehack.

Which brings me to the NC.... um.... we could....

....well I know what the NC on Emerald are gonna do, get some organized zerging going on HELL YEAH BITCHES!

Oh, and I agree with you RedArrow, it does seem like the development team has been ignoring bug fixes in order to cram more content into the game to keep peoples interest.

A lot of people playing over the next 6 months? Do we even know how many subscribers there are now? I just asked around at the sanc the other day, and there were far more people on the 7 day trial than I thought.

I wonder if Planetside is making enough of a profit to make it worth while...

GET EM DOMO! :domotwak:

[ghost018]

Okay, if you want to complain about something, make sure you fully understand it. Snypz in particular, you've been posting in all of the LLU threads about how bad it's going to make the game, yet from your last post made here one can tell you know nothing about it.

ghost

[Yogi]

I'm sorry, but this LLU idea is the most piss poor implemented feature to date.

What's with the randomness crap? It appears randomly, then you have to go to a random base. Does this make any sense?

How about a new CC model, when you hack it, the doors open and you grab the LLU. You take it to a linked base you own and drop it off in that CC. Base capped.

Isn't that a lot simpler and more straight forward?

They've got rules on this for everything. You can't step forward with your left foot first or you lose. If you scratch yourself while holding the LLU you die. (exagerations to make a point).

When you see 3+ paragraphs explaining how to take a glowing box from one base to another there's something wrong. Am I the only one who sees this?

edit: Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of the LLU instead of sitting around for 15 minutes. I just think they've got their collective heads up their asses on the implementation end.

[Rbabiak]

Personally I would like to see the revers be set up.

If you want to have to haul something around then how does this sound

1. hack a enemy base
2. get notified where you have to bring the LLU from to the hacked base.
3. you go get the item and bring it to the hacked base.

This would make it so the defenders have to keep defending and they have something that they can ambush to hold off the capture of there base. it would also draw the attackers away fromt he base makeing it much easyier for the defenders to reman the defenses and protect the base.

If the LLU is captured by the defenders then the hack fails. and has to be rehacked.


But I also agree this hole idea should be shalved untill the balance issues and exploits are fixed first.

[CrazyCrazy]

Ok I'd like to change a previous suggestion. Instead of completely removing the defender's ability to resecure the base the old-fashioned way, they still can re-hack th cc , IF and ONLY IF someone in their empire has the LLU. I was trying to think of a way to make it more like true CTF, but considering the time limits and other variabels, my idea ended up being more like rugby.

BTW, concerning the above post, You are informed of where the llu first spawns, sort of. A big icon flashes on the continent map, and in your proximity map, as long as no one is in possession of it. In fact what you stated is already how it is, plus the limitations on the LLU carrier, and that only the hacking side can actually pick up the lllu.

[Doppler]

Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
The home field advantage has some benefits, but the way its set up now, the only way for the attacking army to win is to have 3X the size of the army as the defenders, which just means more zerging, and less strategy. It still doesn't affect homefield advantage as far as continents are concerned, only bases. Actually it makes thing worse.


Think about it. It still relatively easy for someone to go to an empty continet and cap an LLU base, or get on in the wee hours when no one is on. Now, that LLU you worked so hard for to cap a few hours ago, was taken away by a 2-man team when no one was on, and you have to go thru it all over again.

This will make things especially tough on NC, since their home continents are the most popular places to go. Imagine having to run a LLU form base to base in ceryshen. No air tranpsotation allowed, remember. It will become even less popular to go to than it is now. TR will basically hold onto ceryshen indefinitely, and NC will be kept defending their home turf over and over again.

I'm not totally against the LLU idea, I just think what they have now is far too unbalanced in favor of the defenders. Even with the changes I proposed, The defenders still the option to camp the target base, chase the carrier down, or make one of the bases go neutral, and prevent an ant from getting there in time. The hacker still only has the option of getting the LLU to the target base in a fixed time limit. I didn't suggest any changes to the restricitons the LLU carrier has either. I didn't take away home field advantage, I just suggested it be more reasonable.

Please try it out on the test server and then give a more thoughtful response.

I'm calling bullshit, an equaly sized attacking force will own an equily sized defending force if their smart. They have so manyways they can enter the base, once they have the CC hacked all they have to do is slip a few people down to cap the newb geared people in the spawns before they cna hack a term. Or even better blow the spawn tubes and gens and you dont even thave that problem. In any given base you have three seperate and distinct ways to enter a base you have genraly your front door, your back door and your second storty entrance. Tech plants actualy have four. A defending force has to cover all these and be able to respond to threats to their spawn room, generator and CC. Offense may dictatate where the battle takes place as well as how it takes place, whether brining in ground troops, air assualt or paradrop. Let me put it this way, you give me 10 of my outfit versus any 10 guys of your choosing. Well start with a fictional any given 5 bases I have link to and you controll. Hell or we can make it just one if that's your fancy. I will come in and wear you down, I will blow your gens, (it only takes an agile fully loaded with decimators 35 seconds to kill a generator) trash your spawn tubes, blow your inventory terms, then I'll come in and have someone actualy hack your base. Your now unable to spawn anywhere close because my infiltrators have neutralized your towers and hopefully any nearby ams's you had in reserve. I'll get camped nice and cozy in your spawn room just so you cant repair the gens while throwing the bulk of my forces, especialy in max suits with engies/advanced medics to back them up, boomers guarding the doors, I'll be scanning with darklight listening with audio amp. Basicly you could wear me down through attritcion and that's where your 3x figure comes from, but a offensive force can do the same thign by simply knocking out the gens and spawntubes, in conclusion, you just might suck.

[CrazyCrazy]

First of all, you're a troll. Secondly you don't need to quote my entire post. It doesn't seem like you've even read this thread, or tried the LLU system on test.

All your post describes is the already used, and most obvious tactics for attacking a base and holding a hack under the current system. You never mention ( or just fail to understand because of your ignorance) that once you have the hack, you then have to get the LLU to the target base. All of your tactics may prevent the enemy from resecuring the base, but never even consider getting the LLU to its destination.

Besides that, I don't understand how you assume that everytime you go 10 vs. 10 you will always be facing opponents of inferior skill.

Rather than waste time pointing out all the flaws in your hypothetical situation ( and why your tactics would most likely result in failure), I'll just suggest that you actually read the the rest of this thread, and experiment with the LLU on the test server. Beyond that, look up the word paragraph in the dictionary.

[noxious]

Pretend I quoted the post before the one right above this one...

While it sounds good in theory, just like the defence must comply with the offensive forces movements, the defence does have some control over the pace of any battle.

[Smaug]

Ok I am not gonna read through 3 pages of this so I'm just gonna post what I think, sorry if this was already stated. I tried it out on Solsar for the first time a few days ago. Basically I went into the cc hacked it, got the LLU and ran to the base uncontested getting a whopping 50 xp but what do you expect when there are a total of 20 people on the server. If you have a good defense force, one or 2 squads defending cc and 1 or 2 squads defending the carrier you can cap a base in 5 mins tops. Kinda cool not having to wait forever but the tradeoff is that you'll need double the defense to pull it off if the enemy is even half smart. If the enemy comes into the cc that you hacked and rehacks its all over. This post wasn't exactly constructive or organized I just needed to post to make myself feel like I contributed.... sorry for forcing you to read my giant run-ons.

[NCG JMan]

Originally posted by Madcow
You can't drive a vehicle, only be a passenger. Looks like this will get people certing in lib or gal a lot more, makes a lot more sense to take to the air rather than facing all the ground troops as well as all the air vehicles plus you don't have to deal with terrain.

Yep, I see that most may choose this route (air) for their mode of transportation. But I guarantee that you will see more AA weps/vehicles out there. So don't count on it being the safest/easiest mode of transportation.:p

[NCG JMan]

Originally posted by Smaug
Ok I am not gonna read through 3 pages of this so I'm just gonna post what I think, sorry if this was already stated. I tried it out on Solsar for the first time a few days ago. Basically I went into the cc hacked it, got the LLU and ran to the base uncontested getting a whopping 50 xp but what do you expect when there are a total of 20 people on the server. If you have a good defense force, one or 2 squads defending cc and 1 or 2 squads defending the carrier you can cap a base in 5 mins tops. Kinda cool not having to wait forever but the tradeoff is that you'll need double the defense to pull it off if the enemy is even half smart. If the enemy comes into the cc that you hacked and rehacks its all over. This post wasn't exactly constructive or organized I just needed to post to make myself feel like I contributed.... sorry for forcing you to read my giant run-ons.

LOl Smaug. We have seen worse on these forums. :p At least you made coherent sentences and communicated your thoughts effectively ;)

[ghost018]

I could be wrong, but I remember when they first released the LLU idea to the public they said you wouldn't be able to ride in aircraft while carrying the LLU. Those of you who have played on the Test Server, is this the way it is?

ghost

[CrazyCrazy]

yep, you can't even be a passenger on an air vehicle, so you're completely limited to ground travel.

[NCG JMan]

Ah...cool. *stuffs his backpack full of ACE's*:p

[WCruler]

I think this is a good idea as long as they do a few things

first lets start with the no nos

:nono: Having the LLU spawn randomly when after you finish hacking the CC, it should pop up right in front of you
:nono: having to go to a set base, you should be able to go to any base that is linked to the base you are hacking (sometimes there is only 1 linked to the base you are hacking so ohh well)

now for the good ideas

:thumbsup: being able to only pasanger in a ground vehicle, this makes it a more orginized and thought out team work delivery
:thumbsup: think of the LLU thing you pick up as a password disk to the base you are trying to hack, so you get the disk and bring it to a friendly base so the friendly base can connect with the base you are hacking
:thumbsup: now people dont alwase have to sit in the CC, for 1 base they can do the LLU run and for the next base they can camp, you know rotate it so it does not get boaring

well what do you think, I think I am a genious SOE has good ideas but needs to clean up the small stuff

[Tieom]

Well, just had my first LLU experience now, with the live patch:
"Trench has picked up the Gunuku LLU."
..... He's crouched next to the pick-up spot, glowing.
Me- Hey, trench, you have the LLU.
(He wanders around for a bit inside the base then makes it outside - a big gathering is around him, of course)
(Enforcer pulls up)
Enforcer driver - Hey, I'll give you a ride, get in.
Trench - it's locked
E.D. - No, it isn't, I unlocked it.
Trench - yeah, its locked
Several other people - It's locked!
E.D. - Oh, okay, NOW its unlocked.
(Trench attempts to get in the SIDE of the enforcer)
Several people - The BACK, trench, get in the BACK
(Trench gets in the enforcer and it drives over the hill, I follow it)
Me, and several others - ???
(The enforcer has stopped)
Several others - what's the problem? GO already!
(Driver goes linkdead)
Several people - Trench, he's LD. Get out.
Trench - he isnt LD! He was talking to me!
At least 10 people - YES HE IS!
(Trench gets out of the enforcer, and then gets back IN the enforcer, and then gets back OUT again)
Me - someone kill him!
*Blam blam blam*
"Trench has dropped the gunuku LLU"
"Cathydis has picked up the Gunuku LLU"
Trench - wtf

I swear... nothing shows the moron percentage like important things that depend on one randomly chosen person.

[Eilerson]

Originally posted by knifeman2005
Personally i think the LLU sucks. I preffer just sitting and gaurding the cc instead of doing something else. I always though that it was hard enough to get into the cc in the first place. I dont think it should be perminently put it in. I think less people will play becuase of this. I know im not going to stop playing becuase of just a little change, but still this update is the death of us all and the downfall. I have to admit the first couple of times its cool cause ure not sitting around and just waiting for the timer to hit 00:00. But even with that in place it gets really old having to keep going from base to base.

PS should change this update but keep the lasher tone down. I have to say the VS are still to powerful. We need an update that will just take them completly down to our level and keep them their. Either that or make the NC stronger. The only way we have a chance against the VS is to attack them in massive numbers. Does anyone else agree with me??? I hope so, and just to tell you VS i dont want ure opinion on this so even if you do make a statement on this is wont matter. You know why because you are starting to make me extremely angry and I hope that the PS people do something about this.

Thats all i have to say except take that GOD DAMN LLU thing off PS its not worth the trouble and we need it to be the same way again so please DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
:mad: :mad:


This post by knifeman was so true it needed to be quoted for the sake of it. Also on balance I have found TR versus NC battles to be fairly even. While playing as them or fighting against them I've never actually thought ' Oh my god that's too good', because we have something equivalent. The vanu are just so messed up they kinda ruin the game. Vanu players are sooo tetchy about what is and isn't overpowered. If I had one command descision as a dev i'd consider just deleting them tbh.

[WhiteBear]

I've been Vanu on Markov since our outfit, AQM, joined in on the beta testing. It's literally been weeks since I've logged in as Vanu, though, because in good conscience, I can't allow myself to play in such an uber faction. It isn't fair, plain and simple, and I refuse to support it. Nerf the damn lasher.

That said, what the HELL are the dev's thinking, implementing this LLU basecap function without testing it just a little more? In playtest on the test server, there was prolly all of 80 of us between all three factions. We had an agreed upon time to start, set goals (Neit and Bel), and after an hour and a half of playing, still no LLU cap...and that's with only 80 or so players ON!

Now here's the tie-in with the first part of the post...you trying to tell me that not only do the Vanu have the uber-weapon, but their vehicles float on water, and you can be a passenger in one of these vehicles while carrying an LLU? Come on! Looks like I'm not goin to be playin on Markov for a loooooong time. :(

[Gauntlet]

Originally posted by Tieom
Well, just had my first LLU experience now, with the live patch:
"Trench has picked up the Gunuku LLU."
..... He's crouched next to the pick-up spot, glowing.
Me- Hey, trench, you have the LLU.
(He wanders around for a bit inside the base then makes it outside - a big gathering is around him, of course)
(Enforcer pulls up)
Enforcer driver - Hey, I'll give you a ride, get in.
.....
Trench - wtf



I was there for that debacle! It was so frustrating, took everything I had to not tk him during the enforcer event. The LLU is a nice idea on paper, but in practice it shows a bunch of faults.

First to just throw it out there in a weekly patch without much publicized fanfare was a mistake. We have way too many people that don't fully get the point of the system.

Second it allows the option to "speed up" gameplay, provided people understand how it works. It took entirely too long to take Gunuku last night. Earlier in the night with too small a force we could not get Voltan on Hossin either. So it also can really slow the game to a crawl.

[lloyddot5]

I can think of two problems with the LLU but there are probably more as I havent played PS much recently.

To start with there are those annoying people who are usually in the minority but just so happen to want to cause evryone else as much trouble as possible. When they get hold of the LLU, couldn't they easily go and drown themselves or drive off to the corner of the continent where no one can get to the LLU till the 15 minutes have passed AND they have hacked the base again. This not only stops the current hack from going any further but stops the base being hacked again for 15 minutes.

Also, Isn't it possible that sum1 could just matrix themselves at the base they need to get to, pick up the LLU at the hacked base. Then deconstruct and spawn back at the base where they need to get to, completely bypassing any of the travelling between the bases. Doesn't this make it all very easy? btw, if there is more than 1 base, then this would need more people (to bind to each base).

Just some ideas of the problems that might happen because of the LLU. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't had much experience with the LLU.

[WhiteBear]

Originally posted by lloyddot5
Also, Isn't it possible that sum1 could just matrix themselves at the base they need to get to, pick up the LLU at the hacked base. Then deconstruct and spawn back at the base where they need to get to, completely bypassing any of the travelling between the bases.

Can't deconstruct, put on MAX suit, or cloak while carrying LLU.

[Vis Armata]

LLU bases are now tough chokepoints, thereby stabilizing fronts. The idea is good so far, though it will take some time to see how it will fully pan out.

[CrazyCrazy]

Originally posted by WhiteBear
Can't deconstruct, put on MAX suit, or cloak while carrying LLU.


Actually, you can deconstruct and go to an AMS. It's an exploit that's let you get a hack in 1 min. It didn't work on the test server, but for some reason, it works on live. The devs will probably take forever to fix it though.

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by Tieom
...(The enforcer has stopped)
Several others - what's the problem? GO already!
(Driver goes linkdead)
Several people - Trench, he's LD. Get out.
Trench - he isnt LD! He was talking to me!
At least 10 people - YES HE IS!
(Trench gets out of the enforcer, and then gets back IN the enforcer, and then gets back OUT again)
Me - someone kill him!
*Blam blam blam*
"Trench has dropped the gunuku LLU"
"Cathydis has picked up the Gunuku LLU"
Trench - wtf
:rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl:
:lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol:
OMG That's great!

[Bismarck]

I like the LLU, I really dont know why, probably just because it promotes squad play, team work you know. Plus anyhtings better than hack and hold, that (and still does) sucked. Keep the LLU, give it a little time. Once people get the general idea they'll get more organized and all.

Calm down and relax, it's all good :cool2:

[Eilerson]

I posted earlier just backing up an Anti LLU post. I have had a change of heart after more extensive testing.

I like this system quite a bit now. it makes things more varied. PS needs variation, and for the moment this is it.

[AcidCat]

"I swear... nothing shows the moron percentage like important things that depend on one randomly chosen person."

Choice quote, LOL, haven't checked out the new system but I will soon.

[Doppler]

After playing the LLU on both the test server and live I have the following to say. Ordered only by irritation.

1. Why oh why did they not allowed bases to be captured by either method. I personaly cannot fathom why a base beind fought over by possible hundreds of people needs to ride on whoever picks up the pokeball (call it what you will thats what it looks like). Explain to me why this pokeball must be the be all end all when theres another base close by, but when your hacking a neutral base far from your lines it automagicly becomes plain ol' sit and camp (and I for the record like sit and camp, because batttle should be 1 minuete of stark terror for 15 mins of boredom)

2. The only rhyme or reason behind LLU placement seems to be to make them a pain in the butt to get to. Normally I'm all for defense and i'm all for battles outside the SOI but the bases seem to already be in place like Gunuku, framed on three sidesby water, so I'm sitting there watching someone come out of a base, hop intoa thresher and speed off over the water faster then anyone short of a reaver can stop em. Or worse still a magmower, which along with 4 of it's buddies can easily shoot down incoming air.

3. The vanu have a definite advantage in their ability to cross water at will. This is an advantage previous to the LLU but now it becomes sick, long drawn out battles are bypassed by the vanu jsut by crosssing the river. This could be countered considerably by making it so the deliverer no longer travels at a reduced rate while traveling over water.

4. The game is now too vehicle centric. Personaly I think this is a problem, others disagree, this is just IMHO. I also think this will make it so everyone and their brother needs the reaver cert, not fun IMHO.

Pros
1. This does foster teamwork outside of the traditional outfit/squad roles. This is good

2. I am glad to see the devs turn out something I just wish it'd been platoons or the loadmaster.

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by Doppler
...I am glad to see the devs turn out something I just wish it'd been platoons or the loadmaster.
:lol: I think you mean Lodestar. Lodemaster, that does sound kind of cool though. :)

[noxious]

I think there is a real life military transport called the loadstar. That is where they got the name.

[Lonehunter]

I don't know about that, I do some research.

This is what I found, Linkage (http://www.lodestarquarterly.com/)
Yes it is work safe

[NCG JMan]

Originally posted by Lonehunter187
:lol: I think you mean Lodestar. Lodemaster, that does sound kind of cool though. :)

Just an FYI:

Lode Master is a title of a position in the Airforce. They are the individuals that load (or help load) the aircraft :o I have a friend who was a "Lode Master" (sp) in the Airforce.

As far as what a Lode Star is, I have know clue. :p

[Lonehunter]

You've seriously never heard of the Lodestar? The air vehicle the Devs announced that is used to transport heavy vehicles like tanks? You've never heard of it?

[Eilerson]

lol we're discussing the origin of the name

[AztecWarrior]

The LLU and everything about it sucks. If I want CTF, I'll play Tribes 2.

But Nav summarized it best: It doesn't fix any problems, it will add new ones, and they didn't even ask the community on this: they just shoved it down your throat.

[Cobalt82]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron

All in all, there's no point to the LLU. It's not more fun, and it doesn't address any of the issues people are complaining about. It's not neccessarily bad, it's just CTF instead of King of the HIll. I'm a fan of CTF. My main beef with this is that it has absolutely nothing to do with fixing the problems with this game, and it's going to create a plethora of new ones. It makes me worry about the dev teams focus, or what they think is wrong with the game.

EDIT: In case it matters I had a 109 ping, 140 fps and almost no packet loss.

If anything I find the LLU frustrating. Its hard enough trying to hold on to outposts when there is intense fighting going on, but now we have to divert people to chase the LLU's around. Its bad enough diverting people to chase the LLU, but once you kill the carrier you have to babysit it until the time runs out. Why cant the other team take the LLU and use it their advantage?

[Doppler]

Actualy I am in the airforce and I had been building crates for shipment that morning so i had my mind stuck on loadmaster. In other news the Galaxy in the game is roughly based on airforce (and cross service variant) C-130 hercules. I can only imagine that the loadstar (almost punched in loadmaster again) will be based on the true C-5 Galaxy which is a stupidly massive plane but whould easily carry tanks/AMS/ into battle.

[Lonehunter]

I used to think the LLU ideas was ok, but now it's the worst idea ever. There are too many people out there who want to kill the person with the LLU, so they can have it themselves. Last night I was on Ish, I just got the LLU. My outfit wanted to see if we could get it into a Marauder, then into a Gal, since they say it can't go in air vehicles, but I'll be in land vehicle. Anyway I tell everybody not to kill me becouse I am trying an experiment. Now you should know that there are no enemy bases left on the continent except one, my outfit has secured it, and it's hacked. I get knifed, WTF? The most ignorant and idiotic dumbasses in the gaming world, AOD, say "Surrender the LLU" as they knife me to death, ruin the experiment, and take the LLU away. I try to get him in my skeeter, but he delivers it. Then I kill him, "Paybacks a bitch isn't it AOD?" If anybody here is in AOD or knows somebody who is, please notify them that the hatred I have for them is greater than Satan's hatred towards God. My in-game name is Cifer, let them know, spread the word. The particular guy who killed me was, AODShadowmant, or Shadowmant.

Edit: When I say AOD I mean Angels of Death

[Paingiver]

I think that they should have caves in the moutain areas, wich would serve as a staging and fllback are for guerrilla fighters who could ambush troops in the mountains, also i think that troops should be able to lie down and fire.

[Hamma]

I think its time to unstick this