The TRUE overall balance of all Empires

[FliggenMan]

Ok here goes nothing. I don't care what replies i get, because i just want the PS world to know that this is the way it is.

The Cycler: Overpowered indoor weapon
Change needed: Perhaps weaker types of bullets specifically for the cycler. Some way to degrade its indoor performance.

The Striker: Unbleievably better than the Pheonix and the Lancer against Air, vehicles, and MAX units. Instantaneous travel time is othing compared to homing capabilities. Neither is slightly maneuverable missles controlled by the shooter.
Change needed: A total nerf. Change the striker from a homing missle to a fast firing ballistic AV weapon with lots of Ammo and a lightning fast RoF. Needs smaller ammo for inventory space.

The Pulsar: Not precise enough. A weapon far inferior to the Cycler.
Change needed: A large buff in it's versatility, but not so big as that it is capable of being an AV weapon with 1 person usign it. Make it capable of doing some significant AV dmg when 3-4 people use it together. Also needs a recoil buff, along with a slight dmg nerf. The Vanu dont need dmg buffs SOE, that aint what we're about.

The Lancer: Too strong against infantry. Not precise enough, but only in some ways.
Change needed: A new system that controls the lancer: A field around the target that creates only slight homing capabilities, so that if a shooter is a few meters off of the target, the lancer will compensate by dealing slightly less dmg, but will ultimately have a greater chance of hitting the target using that field of homing possibility.

Marauder: RoF on the ground pounder needs to be raised a little.

Enforcer: Dmg buff on the Rocket launcher, slight armor buff.

Thresher:Strafing speed needs an increase.

Repeater: Could be transformed into a miniature uzi.

Beamer:Dmg buff

Mag-Scatter:needs secondary mode with slight ranged capability and a tighter shot.

Gauss: Needs stronger shots, but not so strong that i too can be used as an indoor weapon.

[Doppler]

Personaly I just think the cycler needs its clip size reduced, all the user needs to do is circle strafe someone, some of their bullets will get them and witht he clip size some are all thats needed, at close range using a sweeper shotgun wearing reinforced i get owned by cycler users all the time.

The gauss rifle needs no upgrade, it is fine as is, perhaps though if your really bent one way or another for a change take away the second zoom setting and tighten the COF.

Thresher? Err no i get run over by enough vanu already.

Repeater- A mini uzi? OH LIKE THE AMP?

Mag Scatter- Ok i i'm gonna try and explain this, it's an open face shotgun, there is no way it could possibly have a secondary mode, what you describe whould require a choke, which requires a barrell, since the mag scatter doesnt really have one of these to speak of it's not really doable. YOu want londer range try the amp.

The lancer needs no real change, it's a versatile weapon that requires skill, lets leave it like that.

The striker while somewhat unfair simply needs to be denied the ability to lock onto max's and possibly ground vehicles. That or increasing it's damage per shot to that of phoenix and giving it a one shot reload system. Phoenix needs to have missile handling improved.

Incidentaly, your a conceited ******* and once again i feel dumber for reading your post. The way it is, please.

Oh and before you call me biased, i play nc on johari, have a nice day.

[Sputty]

MA is fine entirely. They balanced this to near perfection.
Striker is crappy against heavy vehicles like tanks, and that's where the Phoenix shines.
The Repeater has far less RoF than the AMP
The Phoenix handling is fine and it's damage could be increased a SMALL amount.

[NoSurrender]

wow i can only agree with sputty and the striker is fine i play as a max and i change my vehicle cert daily and i think the striker will shine in Core Combat in that urban combat along with the phoenix and the deci in vehicle ambushes Like al quedia ambushes the US with RPGS

[321]

I think all the weapons and vehicles are pretty good and none of them are too strong or too weake especially after the patch.

[Harps]

Do you not understand that certain empires weapons HAVE to be better then the others. Each empire shines in its own way. If everything was completely equal there'd be no reason to have different empires. Each Empire must shine in its own area, each empire DOES shine in its own way now. Stop crying!

[Bismarck]

A vanu complaining about weps.....jesus christ, become a TR charcter and see what its like being killed by a lasher in a max before you can even freaking anchor. You have no right to complain. The NC have a right to complain, they really dont have anythign really good besides the van and jh.

[Sputty]

Originally posted by Sputty

DC MAX sucks now
Pounder is still good but only in CQC, Burster is good, but only at long ranges(A guy with an MA at close range can fuck with a Bursters), Striker isn't worth shit against heavy armor, and it gives a nice big target for anything willing to fight, also it's easy for Aircraft to out maneuver and it's hard to keep locks on moving ground targets.
The MA cert is very well balanced and the Cycler has some advantages(higher RoF, higher clip) but it's far weakre than the Guass and less accurate too.
The Prowler is easily the worst tank. It's two guns are weak, the main gun gnerally being bad, and the 2nd gun coming straight fom a harasser, the Marauder is good for transport, but the Enforcuer is far better, with no arc on it's weapon, and it can one hit kill agile, while the Thresher is far faster.
Now saying the Vanu are the underdogs is complete bullshit, They have the best HA(still is better than the Jackhammer, don't even mention the MCG) their AI MAX is good, You keep on saying the AV MAX was nerfed but it's actually better now, as it may have had damage slightly reduced it's dropoff is lower, making it far bettter, the AA MAX is decent. The Magmower is arguable the best tank(The Vanguard is really good, but better stationary) but no matter what I say you'll just say "Well, it's actually better" But I've played all 3 empires alot, from beta, into release and so far, from the looks of it, TR has the biggest disadvantage in it's current form.


Edit: the reasons the server are like this because of the idiots who fear any nerf will ruin their weapons and then go play a different empire thinking they're better. They're idiots who are the ones that make the game annoying to play often and bring the community down to the maturity of the CS community

[Katanaboy]

...while the Thresher is far faster.
actually, the marauder/enforcer go faster than the thresher.
Thresher max speed is 70, marauder/enforcer max speed is 75. Also, despite the fix to the thresher gun, it is crap compared to the groundpounder/firebird missile launcher.
Same with tanks, magrider goes 60, vangaurd/prowler goes 65. And after the patch, i find i like the chaingun more and more. Now that the lasher has damage degredation over range, a MCG user can easily sit out of range of a lasher user, and pick away at his health, while the lasher tries vainly to spam the way he used to. Its a shame i dont find that many to loot.

[Sputty]

The MAgrider and Thresher are far more manueverable. Heh, if you think an MCG is effective at range you should try it in combat, the Lasher is the longest ranged HA weapon easily

[FliggenMan]

Incidentaly, your a conceited ******* and once again i feel dummer for reading your post. The way it is, please.

Wtf did you say? You're getting that from a post about BALANCE ISSUES? It's just my opinion, and it seems that you are far more conceited than I am right now.

[FliggenMan]

The next person who whines about emf or comlaining is a total retard btw. this is a forum, yo're supposed to voice yer opinions, not bitch at others for voiceing theirs. so why don't you go complain somewhere else.

[FliggenMan]

No empires weapons are supposed to better COMPLETELY. They are supposed to shine in differnt areas, but still get the ultimate purpose complete. Example:

Lancer, Striker, Pheonix: AV weapons, ideal for armored targets.

lancer:instantaneous travel time (doesnt make a fucking difference btw)can kill infantry, which shudnt be allowed, its an AV weapon
striker:homing capabilities and dumb fire mode. can lock onto any target besides infantry and cloakers. 2nd Strongest missle.
Pheonix: Strongest missle. Slight player controlled maneuverability.

But some of these "fields" where the weapons shine are far better fields to shine in. I have a TR character and a Vanu character. I dont only play Vanu so dont bitch at me about that. The striker can be outmaneuevered, and soemtimes easily. But that is because PEOPLE outmaneuever it. It has nothing to do with fucking game balance! It is the simple fact that the striker is more powerful because it can lock onto targets. This makes it more precise than the pheonix and lancer, and more powerful than the lancer because it's missles are stronger. There may be one person who can only outmaneuever a striker and not see a lancer shot coming, but does that mean the lancer is as good as the striker? NO! I AM STATING THE FACTS. The striker is statistically an overpowered weapon that doesnt even have the general trend of the TR as one of its strength which is massive clip size and rate of fire. This is one aspect of the game iam seriously concerned about.

[Sputty]

IF you can aim the Lancer is better. It does more damage per clip than the Striker. So what the Striker can lock? If it wasn't for that it'd be impossible to hit with it.

[Everay]

duh....anyways, i have no beef with the strikers lock, what i have beef with is the not being able to see it on my radar thing, so it makes it much harder to dodge

[FliggenMan]

interesting idea everay

[CmdNeo]

:eek: the lancer is good at AV if you have good aim? :eek:
have you ever played as the VS? and if so have you ever tried shooting down a moving reaver? good aim is not what you need to hit it... to hit it you need the damn striker or phoenix... simple as...

1 way to buff the lancer that would be good is , remove the charge up delay and increase damage versus vehicles... and degrade it versus infantry (or keep damage same and then it gets nerfed cos it owns the infantry and they complain cos we get 1 decent weapon... e.g the lasher... which now is not even 1/2 as good.... i could ramble on and on but the only thing needing nerf is the striker , and lancer needs buffing a little.....

if you flame me you are just an idiot..... this is my opinion which i am entiltled to , and btw if u do flame it just shows im correct... the TR / NC just complain when we get 1 decent weapon... yet all the VS complain about the other empires AV weapons and nothing gets done

[Sputty]

Originally posted by CmdNeo
:eek: the lancer is good at AV if you have good aim? :eek:
have you ever played as the VS? and if so have you ever tried shooting down a moving reaver? good aim is not what you need to hit it... to hit it you need the damn striker or phoenix... simple as...

if you flame me you are just an idiot..... this is my opinion which i am entiltled to , and btw if u do flame it just shows im correct... the TR / NC just complain when we get 1 decent weapon... yet all the VS complain about the other empires AV weapons and nothing gets done
I've played VS alot firstly. Secondly, your reply which is basically saying if you question my statement you're stupid and proving my statement right makes no sense. Those statements make your entire argument invalid

[Doppler]

Originally posted by CmdNeo
:eek: the lancer is good at AV if you have good aim? :eek:
have you ever played as the VS? and if so have you ever tried shooting down a moving reaver? good aim is not what you need to hit it... to hit it you need the damn striker or phoenix... simple as...
Actualy yes, i have one Vanu character specificly devoted to nothing but the lancer before I finnaly gave him reinforced for more ammo space and a shotgun for upclose fighting. The lancer is a great weapon, well balanced, versatile and requiring the satifaction of knowing that you actualy outshot your oponents. Now however having played the other two empires i know the following.
a phoenix cannot hit a moving reaver because it simply cannot course correct fast enough to catch low speed course operation, a phoenix cannot catch a reaver at full speed.
A striker can indeed hit a reaver not moving at it's top speed because of it's homing ability, however at it's top speed a reaver will outpace the stiker missile and find someway to shake the lock, yes it is annoying but it's bette rthen hanging around and taking the hit.
In both cases a reaver moving at it's full non afterburner speed will outdistance a rocket, and be a hard target to lead with a lancer.

1 way to buff the lancer that would be good is , remove the charge up delay and increase damage versus vehicles... and degrade it versus infantry (or keep damage same and then it gets nerfed cos it owns the infantry and they complain cos we get 1 decent weapon... e.g the lasher... which now is not even 1/2 as good.... i could ramble on and on but the only thing needing nerf is the striker , and lancer needs buffing a little.....
Why does the lancer need a buff? Is it not used? No? Do vanu traditionaly get their butt beat because of a gear deficiency? Even after patch, no? Ok moving right along then



if you flame me you are just an idiot..... this is my opinion which i am entiltled to , and btw if u do flame it just shows im correct... the TR / NC just complain when we get 1 decent weapon... yet all the VS complain about the other empires AV weapons and nothing gets done
Despite what you may think you do not constitute the whole of the Vanu empire, mayn many vanu I know are very happy with the lancer. As for the rest of your comments it's so laughable it's almost sig worthy, you are entitled to your opinion however everyone that has a counter opinion is an idiot and shows your correct, I'm close to stunned by the beautiful non logic of your statement. It's like a cool breeze of amazing stupidity in a relatively logical intelligent forum.

But since your mystified let me expain it to you. The lasher got hit with the wifflebat because even many of the VS admitted it was the best damn HA weapon in the game. ANy weapon that's power of versatility is so far greater then anything else in it's class that it shifts the population balance on servers across the board is going to get looked at. It wasnt that the lasher was more powerfull per se, but that it was more versatile, it killed witht he power of the jackhammer but at the range of the MCG, it permitted the side stepping constant straffing of the MCG but killed quicker. It allowed the user without changing ammo to engage vehicles air targets max's and infantry with the same ease. Is it really fair that the vanu lasher should be an antivehicle weapon superior to their AV weapon (and not because their av weapon was a slouch either) A MCG user could not do half the damage a lasher could to vehicles as a lasher, and even then they'd have to switch ammo. Engaging a tank or other vehicle witha jackhammer is a good way to get yourself run over or shot, but was quite possible with a lasher. Is it fair the nc main battle tank, the vanguard or the prowler for that matter, or the magrider if the situation were reversed. had to run from a lasher user behind a tree? I really doubt it.

[FliggenMan]

Originally posted by Doppler
As for the rest of your comments it's so laughable it's almost sig worthy, you are entitled to your opinion however everyone that has a counter opinion is an idiot and shows your correct, I'm close to stunned by the beautiful non logic of your statement. It's like a cool breeze of amazing stupidity in a relatively logical intelligent forum.

But since your mystified let me expain it to you. The lasher got hit with the wifflebat because even many of the VS admitted it was the best damn HA weapon in the game. ANy weapon that's power of versatility is so far greater then anything else in it's class that it shifts the population balance on servers across the board is going to get looked at. It wasnt that the lasher was more powerfull per se, but that it was more versatile, it killed witht he power of the jackhammer but at the range of the MCG, it permitted the side stepping constant straffing of the MCG but killed quicker.

just wtf are you suggesting? are u stating that vanu are supposed to be versatile like that? look its not that i think u are dumb, but i am seriously wanting to look into balance issues in this game and you seem to understand what your talking about more than other people on this forum. i am actually the strategist for my outfit more or less, and im looking to investigate the issue of empire balance. if you ever want to discuss it to me than email me at [email protected]. If u aint interested, than thats coo too. but id really like to get a second point of view more often.

[Skullhead]

sticks and stones will be the ulitmate balance.
Sticks to poke out their eyes
stones to bash their heads in.
All melee combat until someone decides to throw the stones.
Then someone decides to fasion bows and arrows out of the sticks that were suppost to poke someone's eye out.
Then they fasion the stone into knifes.
Then the sticks into giant clubs
then they break the stones to find metals.
Then they make a sword
then the sticks are used to make a wooden shield
Then they find gun powder
then they mix the sticks and stones and the metal in the stones with the gunpowder and they make guns
They then make the single shot gun
Then the multi shot gun
then the fully automatic gun
then a bigger gun
then an even bigger gun
then the biggest gun ever made
then they build a tank
then a better tank
then an even better tank
then they build a skyscraper
then they build an even bigger skyscraper
then they build the largest skyscraper ever built
then they build a spaceship
then they build a spaceship that goes farther
then they build an even better space ship that can send asteroids to their home planet
then a better spaceship that can send even bigger asteroids to their home planet.
They first send small asteroids to their home planet
then even larger asteroids to their home planet
then even the largest of the largest asteroid to their home planet
then they decide to blow up the sun
then they decide to blow up an even bigger sun
then after they they decide to blow themselves up
the other side decides to blow themselves up in a better fasion
then the other side that opposes the other side that wants to blow themselves up in a better fasion than the other side will blow themselves up and the other side as well so no one would be left.

---Then a cockroach becomes intelligent
Then they pick up a stone
Another cockroach picks up a stick
The stone carrying cockroach smashes the stick carrying cockroach
The stick carrying cockroach gets smashed but it pokes out the eyes of the cockroach with the stick
The stone carrying cockroach is blind
the stick carrying cockroach is smashed.

Its the endless cycle of sticks and stones :)

[Aegis]

Strikers are a pain when driving, i think the Lancer is pretty effective too, it seems to me from playing all three AV types that the Phoenix is the weakest, i dont know if it does the most damage, but it cant hit moving vehicles!!! The thing just wont turn fast enough to get anything other than directly incoming or outgoing vehicles. The range is too poor as well IMO. Reload is stupidly slow. It cant be used as AA weapons as the striker and to a lesser degree the lancer can. (thank god NC have the sparrow eh?)

Sure, its amazing fun to fly missiles at people, and great for taking out MAXs, but not very effective overall.

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by Skullhead
Its the endless cycle of sticks and stones :) Well put.

I think the AV weapons could be balanced fairly easaly by doing 2 things.
A) Slight nerf to striker damage(still 4 shots on MAX, but just barely, or maybe 5 shot Its still 2 clip kill). As is, it kills a MAX in 1 clip if the MAX has seen any fighting whatsoever.

B) Give phoenix a 2 round clip. You can keep the refire rate down to hinder it's use indoors, and outdoors you have to wait until the first missle hits before you can fire the next anyways.

On a separate, somewhat related, note, Reavers have too much armor for what they are. 4 phoenixes are required to make it loose control, which means it has more armor than a Lightning. As is, the Reaver is the second fastest/most menuverable aircraft, has arguably the most powerful firepower, and has heavier armor than the majoraty of ground vehicles. Given it costs 4 certs, but cert cost are not there to balance the weapons power, but rather the vecitility of the weapon-user.

[BigTexas]

Originally posted by FliggenMan
Unbleievably better than the Pheonix and the Lancer against Air, vehicles, and MAX units. Instantaneous travel time is othing compared to homing capabilities. Neither is slightly maneuverable missles controlled by the shooter.
Change needed: A total nerf. Change the striker from a homing missle to a fast firing ballistic AV weapon with lots of Ammo and a lightning fast RoF. Needs smaller ammo for inventory space.

The Striker is, yes quite good, it can home, it does a lot of damage. It does what it is supposed to do very well, take out MAX's, vehicles and aircraft. However, it does little against soft targets, while the Lancer does amazing damage versus infantry, and the Phoenix has proven itself time and time again against infantry. Not to mention that the Striker has a smaller effective range than both of the other anti vehicular weapons, aircraft can use their afterburners and dodge the missle, MAX's can find cover, and vehicles can find a tree to hide behind or simply run over whoever is trying to shoot them. While there is no escape from the Phoenix or Lancer as there is no big red warning prior to the weapon being fired, and the player firing it can be at a much longer range, meaning you can be killed by Phoenix missles and Lancer bolts litteraly before you even know what hit you. The Strikers biggest draw back is the fact that it does lock on, alerting the Armored target with a big red flashing warning.

I like the idea that this guy came up with to "nerf" the Striker, not because I think the Striker is overpowered, but because I think its not as good as the other two. Plus it would be fun as high hell to fire 1000 miniature missles at the enemy like a swarm of exploding gnats.

[Happy lil Elf]

That Reavers have more armor than Lightnings is something that has annoyed me for quite awhile but I seriously doubt they'll change it /shrug

CmdNeo, you're an idiot. First of all what you're talking about is the lancers AA capabilities not it's AV capabilities. There is a difference between the two. The only Empire AV weapons that works well as an AA is the Striker, because of it's relatively fast refire rate and it's homing capabilities and more importantly because it's generally used in large numbers. The Phoenix packs a good punch but it lacks the manuverability to hit air targets reliably unless they are holding still. If they're holding still it's not hard for a Lancer to hit them either, and the Lancer refires a hell of a lot faster (damage over time on a Lancer is greater than a Phoenix and that becomes much more true the further the target gets from the user).

The Lancer does not need to be upgraded against vehichles, by which I mean ground vehicles. I can be driving along minding my own business and all of a sudden some dick with a Lancer starts sniping me. There is no dodging, because there's nothing to dodge. If he keps his crosshairs over me (which isn't all that tough when you're talking about ground vehicles) I get hit. There's no chance to break the lock. There's no chance to try and screw the pilot of the missile up.

Even with that I'm fine with the Lancer. I think it's a decently balanced weapon. Maybe a bit too effective against infantry but I can deal with that, especially since I drive tanks about 90% of the time. But to suggest that it needs an upgrade? That's just pure idiocy. If any AV weapon needs an upgrade it's the Phoenix, and all that could really use is just a tweak to be a little more effective inside. Overall the AV weapons are pretty well balanced.

AV weapons are not good at AA. Even the Striker isn't all that good unless it's being used by multiple people (which it usually is but that's beside the point because we can't balance weapons based on the number of peole using them, for obvious reasons). If you want AA get an AA MAX or a skyguard. Hell even a Lightning/Medium tank with a decent gunner is better for AA than most of the Empire specific AV weapons. Yes I know the Vanu AA MAX has problems but before you point that out let me also point out they're being fixed.

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by BigTexas
the Phoenix has proven itself time and time again against infantry. Since when has the phoenix proven itself against infantry? The Phoenix sucks against infantry more than even the striker. At least the stiker can be used close range vs. infantry(I've seen it done enough).

The only reason you see phoenixes used against infantry is because its just fun as hell to fly bombs into people, even if not that effective. The phoenix is easaly the Least vercitile of the AV weapons. It's only particularly good for takeing out MAXes outdoors(it is good at that though). It's less than useless indoors and you cant fire fast enough to kill aircraft before the jet, or do signifigant damage to ground vehicles before they run you over.

[Kikinchikin]

Ok b4 we get into balancing the weapons and what not lets look at each empires strengths YET AGAIN.

MA- no clear cut winner all weapons are good- pulsar is like a sniper rifle almost, cycler has a huge clip and gauss deals good dmage
HA- VS win lasher still ownz, NC follow behind closely and TR are trailing horribly, even tho I love the MCG and i use it every time i set foot on a battlefield it still is not up to par with the others IMO.
AV- TR win. striker is a great weapon but gosh the TR wouldnt need a good weapon would they??? NO OF COURSE NOT!
Buggy- enforcer is best IMO altho the maurader is ok as is thresher
Tank- VS/NC are tied on thisone. Both are great. as i stated in a different thread Prowler is severely lacking
AI max- TR pounder other thing they have thats good. Comet and scattercannon are very close tho so thgis category is balanced
AV max- IMO all of them suck but i guess the NC one
AA max- NC hands down. SINCE WHEN CAN U NOT SEE THE MISSILES ON UR PROXY MAP I CANT SEE A STARFIRES SHOTS NOR A SPARROWS SHOTS ITS SOOOOOO GAY! Burster requires more skill than the others cuz u have to actually place ur shots instead of lock ons.

well thats ur break down. Empires are balanced IMO altho many say the TR are underpowered which i sometimes agree its just that each xcells in different places. so stfu about nerfing crap.

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by Lilbird2431
SINCE WHEN CAN U NOT SEE THE MISSILES ON UR PROXY MAP I CANT SEE A STARFIRES SHOTS NOR A SPARROWS SHOTS ITS SOOOOOO GAY! Can't see striker's either. It's very annoying.

Bursters are a fine MAX as long as you dont let the enemy get close to you. Their advantage is that they dont give a lock-on warning like the sparrow and starfire, and when anchored, nothing gets out alive.