So i'm going back to church!

[Squeeky]

It's been years, but my girlfriend finally dragged me back. Boy was i glad i took the time to go back, i've never felt better after 3 hours of worship. I know in some other threads i've expressed confusion with my religion but now i remember why i went to church for all those years. It was a blast, and i have the coolest pastor. It is an all teen church, and we worship (sing) and dance and oh my god i can't wait til next week! WEEEEE!

[Mr1337Duck]

Ohhh kay....

Do you have a youth group? Join that, I really enjoy mine. Our youth leader and pastor are really cool guys. The pastor was supposed to be moved, but we got them to let us keep him because he completely turned the church around. Got more offerings, more membership, etc.

[WritheNC]

Must be all the church girls that dress up ;)

Seriously though, that is good stuff. Most people bash religion, but everyone needs to do what makes them happy.

If anything, almost every church are great communities of well meaning people that lead to many good things, regardless of how they worship god.

[Squick]

I'm not a church guy myself... But whatever group you belong to that exposes you to more people with similar interests to you the better...

As a matter of fact that last time I was in a church was for my babtism about 30 years ago :)

I have not even been to any weddings in churches, all outdoors or at halls...

[Squeeky]

It is a Youth Group, my bad :x

[Mr1337Duck]

just as good.

[Lonehunter]

I used to go to church, believe it or not.

[Mtx]

You can go to church your whole life and still go to hell.

3-5 PSU users go to hell. :D

[TekDragon]

Squeeky, you and your girlfriend need to abandon that false God you serve. He can give you nothing.

The Church of TekDragon, however, is a religion you can actually interact with. I dont give crap-ass laws like "Thou shalt not lie"

Pffft.. fuk that. Take drugs, lie, cheat, steal, and do it all in My name.

Just dont forget to obey the "Squeezy your Kitty" time or youll feel my wrath :mad:

[Hamma]

Church sucks, i went twice in my entire life and was never so freaked out by the gathering of sheep. I worship nobody, I find it's a great way to live because then you dont have to worry about all the bullshit of what you can and can't do, etc. Life is to short to be preparing for death the whole time.

I will never go again, ever. And when I die I just want to be tossed in the ground with a computer as my gravestone :lol:

I don't hold anything against people who do go however, its their life to live as they choose of course.

Let the flaming commense!

[EarlyDawn]

Originally posted by Hamma
Church sucks, i went twice in my entire life and was never so freaked out by the gathering of sheep. I worship nobody, I find it's a great way to live because then you dont have to worry about all the bullshit of what you can and can't do, etc. Life is to short to be preparing for death the whole time.

I will never go again, ever. And when I die I just want to be tossed in the ground with a computer as my gravestone :lol:

I don't hold anything against people who do go however, its their life to live as they choose of course.

Let the flaming commense! Amen to that.

[Zodiac]

Originally posted by Hamma
Church sucks, i went twice in my entire life and was never so freaked out by the gathering of sheep. I worship nobody, I find it's a great way to live because then you dont have to worry about all the bullshit of what you can and can't do, etc. Life is to short to be preparing for death the whole time.

I will never go again, ever. And when I die I just want to be tossed in the ground with a computer as my gravestone :lol:

I don't hold anything against people who do go however, its their life to live as they choose of course.

Let the flaming commense!

why do you have to rain on his parade?

edit: :doh: i didnt see the next to last line

[Spider]

I won't take the risk of getting molested by a priest!

[Strygun]

What denomination is it squeek?

Personally I'm a Baptist, Southern Baptist to be more precise.

[Mr1337Duck]

Methodist here.

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by Hamma
I worship nobody, I find it's a great way to live because then you dont have to worry about all the bullshit of what you can and can't do, etc. Life is to short to be preparing for death the whole time.
Amen to that

[Mtx]

Originally posted by Spider
I won't take the risk of getting molested by a priest!

Cathlics like boning little children. Then they condem ****. :lol:

[EineBeBoP]

Originally posted by Hamma
Church sucks, i went twice in my entire life and was never so freaked out by the gathering of sheep. I worship nobody, I find it's a great way to live because then you dont have to worry about all the bullshit of what you can and can't do, etc. Life is to short to be preparing for death the whole time.

I will never go again, ever. And when I die I just want to be tossed in the ground with a computer as my gravestone :lol:

I don't hold anything against people who do go however, its their life to live as they choose of course.

Let the flaming commense!

:cheers: Indeed

Its kinda funny, Im Jewish (in the sense that if a dog is born in a tree it is a bird) so i should be going to temple. I've actually been to church on a much more regular basis with friends that i've even been to church :p

[Squeeky]

I'm christian

[Mr1337Duck]

No shit, really? You go to church and you're Christian?

:)

[Hamma]

Originally posted by Strygun
What denomination is it squeek?

Personally I'm a Baptist, Southern Baptist to be more precise. ph34r teh bible belt ;)

[Tex]

(sorry, just have to defend my faith here guys...)

i'm catholic, and we don't condemn "****"

it's also interesting to note that the number of convicted priests is no different in ratio than those of school teachers, protestant ministers, or pretty much any other group where adults and children interact. (this does NOT make the crimes that were committed any less horrible, but rather helps to explain the perceived notion that all catholics "like boning little children".)

However, I would like to get past all of that and ask Hamma a question:

what do you live for? and knowing that that which you live for is irrelevant anyway, why do you continue to live?

it's the ultimate athiestic question, and I still have not found an answer for it.

seems to me that the second an athiest comes to truly understand his belief, he would simply commit suicide.

so can any athiests out there answer that for me? thanks

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by Tex
what do you live for? and knowing that that which you live for is irrelevant anyway, why do you continue to live?
I'm not religious. I live, simply to live, to enjoy my life. Instead of worrying that I might not get into heaven or that I'll go to hell.

[Doobz]

i'm a forced catholic

if i had the decision (stupid parents) i'd rather stay home on sundays

[xuur]

may you find whatever it is you seek there.

I, for one.....have not.

[Hamma]

I live for me, why do you need something to live for? You don't.

I wasnt brought up to live for god or some stupid belief, when my mom gave birth to me she allowed me to choose my path - thus I was never baptised or anything, she allowed me to choose my own path for life.

I suspect most people are brought up to live for some religion, thus never knowing what its like to not have to worry about any of that crap. I see religion as a way to prepare for death.. life is too short for me to spend my entire life prepping for my eminant demise - when I cease to be that will be it.

[AztecWarrior]

Hey Mtx how about you shut up.

[Hamma]

bah wts, I've gone and started teh debate that cannot be won rofl, politics/religion are 2 things i stay away from. I am not posting here anymore :P

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by Hamma
I live for me, why do you need something to live for? You don't.

I wasnt brought up to live for god or some stupid belief, when my mom gave birth to me she allowed me to choose my path - thus I was never baptised or anything, she allowed me to choose my own path for life.

I suspect most people are brought up to live for some religion, thus never knowing what its like to not have to worry about any of that crap. I see religion as a way to prepare for death.. life is too short for me to spend my entire life prepping for my eminant demise - when I cease to be that will be it.
Right on man :rock: I hear'ya

[Robot]

oh crap, here come the ICBM's of FLAME WAR!

[Doobz]

jesus, DUCK AND RUN!

[Mtx]

Originally posted by AztecWarrior
Hey Mtx how about you shut up.

Hey look.. he took the bait.

Bah.. just a little fish. :(

[Hamma]

Originally posted by Doobz
jesus, DUCK AND RUN! :rofl:

[Onizuka]

Originally posted by Hamma
I live for me, why do you need something to live for? You don't.

I wasnt brought up to live for god or some stupid belief, when my mom gave birth to me she allowed me to choose my path - thus I was never baptised or anything, she allowed me to choose my own path for life.

I suspect most people are brought up to live for some religion, thus never knowing what its like to not have to worry about any of that crap. I see religion as a way to prepare for death.. life is too short for me to spend my entire life prepping for my eminant demise - when I cease to be that will be it.

STFU.

(please dont ban me! i ph33r your nazi pwers)

IMO, ignorant asshats that have been to a wak church 2 or 3 times in their life and have never meditated while focusing on gone, and being ignorant and prematurely judgemental.

(in no way am i calling you an ignorant asshat hamma 'please no ban this is just my opinion')

Hamma, i could care less what you do in your life, but i dont want you to judge "church" by a church that has a preacher saying if you dont believe in exacly what we are saying you will go to hell. ONLY god will judge you and only he should.

In almost all threads i agree with you (except probabley the marijuana thread, we all know you do drugs :p)

[Tex]

awwwww hamma, why're you leaving :(

i was just about to reply...

btw, i don't believe there is anything wrong with discussing politics/religion/morality/money or any other sensitive topic for this reason:

We all seem to reasonably intelligent and able to engage in a friendly debate (well, except for a couple of posts ;) )

Therefore, why not continue to discuss?

I'll keep it low-key if yall will.

The reason I love discussing these things is that the only way you can be sure on your convictions is to debate them openly and honestly.

Don't fear your convictions. And for sure do not fear your ability to defend those convictions! (that just means you're out of practice!)

One of the most valuable lessons that my Catholic faith has taught me is to question everything. So let us question!

Believe me when I say that I have an open mind. Two years ago I argued myself into being against the death-penalty, despite the fact that I am a staunch conservative.

There's nothing I love more than a good debate, and if anyone else here agrees, then let's have us one!

so here we go:

Originally posted by Lonehunter187
I'm not religious. I live, simply to live, to enjoy my life. Instead of worrying that I might not get into heaven or that I'll go to hell.

Christianity is not about guilt, self-denial, or "pick your destiny", It's about life and living it, just like you said. It is the belief that we are placed on this Earth together, and the only way to "happiness" (i.e. eternal life, being "saved", salvation) is through the goodness of your own heart and through the mutual respect (i.e. love, grace, chastity, honor, loyalty) that all of us humans give one another.

I think you would agree when I say that Christianity simplified to the "heaven/hell game show" would not have drawn the numbers of followers that it has. It's very much more.

Originally posted by Doobz
i'm a forced catholic

if i had the decision (stupid parents) i'd rather stay home on sundays

well then why don't you?

but do yourself a favor and honestly, ask your parents why they go. and if they can't give you a good reason other than "because it makes me feel good.", then go ask someone else to give you a reason.

There are a lot of people that go to Church every Sunday because it "makes them feel good." To a lot of people, that's all they need to know. But for people like you and me, we need to "why?". Why does it make you feel good? Is there marijuana in that inscence? Is God really reaching out to you through the Eucharist?

It's commendable to have convictions, but one thing you should never deny yourself is the freedom to continuously question. If nothing else, it gives you more ammo to defeat your opponents. Then you can come back here and debate me one on one ;)

Originally posted by Hamma
I live for me, why do you need something to live for? You don't.

I wasnt brought up to live for god or some stupid belief, when my mom gave birth to me she allowed me to choose my path - thus I was never baptised or anything, she allowed me to choose my own path for life.

I suspect most people are brought up to live for some religion, thus never knowing what its like to not have to worry about any of that crap. I see religion as a way to prepare for death.. life is too short for me to spend my entire life prepping for my eminant demise - when I cease to be that will be it.

I'm really sorry you feel that way. That just isn't the way Christians live. If we spent all of our time worrying about death, then we would have locked ourselves away in caves long ago, had no children, prayed 24/7, and died of starvation.

Christianity is about life. Otherwise, why would God have created us? Do you really think that God created us just to see whether or not we would get into heaven? Does God not know that whenever he creates us? (yeah i know, enter the "fate vs. free-will" debate...we may get to that ;) )

Living is what we're here for, not dieing. Death is simply a side-effect of the gift that we have all been given.

Originally posted by AztecWarrior
Hey Mtx how about you shut up.

You have to be above that Az. It sucks. 2 flames don't make a right though man...

Our faith is difficult to defend, but it's not impossible. It just takes time and an understanding of what you believe. Above all, it takes debate and research.



Ok that's enough for now. I'll try to respond to posts as I see them (could use some help from fellow Christians when you can :) )

[Terran Sniper]

Originally posted by Mtx
Cathlics like boning little children. Then they condem ****. :lol: Mtx, i have to take offense to that:mad: . You cant just go around spittin on my religion just cause some horndog pastors got too aroused to pay attention to their eternal chastity.
So, in my book, Ill be lookin down on you from heaven while you sit in the Playboy mansion's photo studio with your hands tied behind your back (my idea of hell).
so, i curse your name and will personally piss on your grave when you die

[Doobz]

jesus fucking christ!
holy shit!
sweet moses!

[AztecWarrior]

Another thread turned into a battlefield:

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/courage/jpegs/bodyinthebattlefield.jpg

[TheRegurgitator]

I think church has some good stuff in it like when they discuss about hmm important stuff about life. But when they go on about sheep and god and how we should do everything he demands thats the bad stuff about it

[Doobz]

i think this thread should die and go to heaven. or hell. or wherever, it just needs to die.

[Spider]

Originally posted by Terran Sniper
Mtx, i have to take offense to that:mad: . You cant just go around spittin on my religion just cause some horndog pastors got too aroused to pay attention to their eternal chastity.
So, in my book, Ill be lookin down on you from heaven while you sit in the Playboy mansion's photo studio with your hands tied behind your back (my idea of hell).
so, i curse your name and will personally piss on your grave when you die

That's why I never got into religion... the Holier then thou attitude... sickens me. (plus I beleive it's just one big ass cult)


And personnaly I beleive life without sex (chastity) until marriage would be hmmmm boring.. :ugh:

[Strygun]

if we're going to turn this into a religious debate (which I'm fine with, I'm a Christain and proud of it) we're going to keep it civil.

If you have nothing good to say, don't say it.

I realize that if I delete a post that was made that obviously is just to 'make a joke' or 'spit on someone's religion' that I am censoring you, so I won't do it. However, realize that there are many on this board who are going to lose respect for you and your comments.

[Doobz]

you people are just continuing the pain and agony of this thread by responding

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by Squeeky
It's been years, but my girlfriend finally dragged me back. Boy was i glad i took the time to go back, i've never felt better after 3 hours of worship. I know in some other threads i've expressed confusion with my religion but now i remember why i went to church for all those years. It was a blast, and i have the coolest pastor. It is an all teen church, and we worship (sing) and dance and oh my god i can't wait til next week! WEEEEE! Thats really good. So many people get christians confused with christianity. As a christian, my faith is not in christians, pastors, the church, or anything else. My faith is in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God bless.

[firecrackerNC]

.......this went from Squeekys GF bringing him back to church to pissing on others graves and saying religion is a cult............cool....but IMO religion was created to make people believe there was a heaven and hell so that everyone would want to be good in life and treat others with respect,people would fear hell and so wouldnt do such terriable things and whoever created religion hoped this would make the world a better place,which in truth it sorta did,so it almost is a cult(in a way) but for those that actually believe its real then it makes them a better person because they hope to go to heaven,Now i know this is kinda far fetched but thats MO,religion was created to bring families and communities together,which it also did,so i think religion works for the people that believe its real

EDIT: oh and flames and comments welcome

[Doobz]

i think we all know my thoughts:

this thread should die. soon.

[Squeeky]

Originally posted by Doobz
i think we all know my thoughts:

this thread should die. soon.

No one is forcing you to click on this thread....thx

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by Squeeky
No one is forcing you to click on this thread....thx Well, I was, but I'll stop. :D

[Doobz]

Jesus has a gun to my head.

[Strygun]

Originally posted by Doobz
Jesus has a gun to my head.

it's comments like that doobz. Please, stay out if you have nothing meaningful to contribute.

[Doobz]

jeez, i'm gonna ignore this thread from now on, i swear, you make one joke to try and add levity to the subject and everybody takes it seriously, jeez

so, good bye to this thread

EDIT: if this belongs anywhere now, this thread belongs in the political debate forum

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by Doobz
everybody takes it seriously, jeez Sorry for taking respect for my creator and savior too seriously. I wihs I could say it won't happen again, but...

[1024]

I'm agnostic.

[Strygun]

Originally posted by Doobz
jeez, i'm gonna ignore this thread from now on, i swear, you make one joke to try and add levity to the subject and everybody takes it seriously, jeez

so, good bye to this thread

EDIT: if this belongs anywhere now, this thread belongs in the political debate forum

you made more than one

[Spider]

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
Sorry for taking respect for my creator and savior too seriously. I wihs I could say it won't happen again, but...

I was created by a sperm and a ovula, not by some mystical force. As for being our savior... he didnt save many people now did he...

I for one couldnt care less if I went to hell... wouldnt be as bad as not having sex and praying each day for some miracle to happen (wich it wont). I won't add anything else this is a spiritual debate about what people beleive... I could say I beleive that a invisible cow looks after each one of us and takes care of us heck I could write some book and in 300 years people will think the cows are messiah's... But that doesnt make it true now does it?


Anyhoo I think jesus is overrated... the story fucked at some point, like the telephone game. His names isnt jesus it's jeff...he wasnt a messiah he was a massuse... and he didnt do miracles he worked miracles.

[Strygun]

it's all about what you believe... if you believe in some invisible cow, then when we're all dead and God has judged us, I'll be waving at you from heaven while you're in hell for eternity.

[Doobz]

sorry for coming back, i know i said i wouldn't, but that was too much :rofl:

anyways, Strygun, i didn't do anything wrong, i made a joke, light hearted jokes, hardly considered offensive to anybody

if anything wrong was done in this thread, it was bringing a relgious debate into it, this thread should be moved to preserve the idea of the lounge

[Spider]

And I'll be getting a sweet tan :o

[Zodiac]

edited this out...i dont want to be banned ;)

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Onizuka
STFU.

(please dont ban me! i ph33r your nazi pwers)

IMO, ignorant asshats that have been to a wak church 2 or 3 times in their life and have never meditated while focusing on gone, and being ignorant and prematurely judgemental.

(in no way am i calling you an ignorant asshat hamma 'please no ban this is just my opinion')

Hamma, i could care less what you do in your life, but i dont want you to judge "church" by a church that has a preacher saying if you dont believe in exacly what we are saying you will go to hell. ONLY god will judge you and only he should.

In almost all threads i agree with you (except probabley the marijuana thread, we all know you do drugs :p)

Why is your opinion of Church and religion any more meaningful than Hamma's? Why should Hamma STFU?

He did not venture forth to impose his beliefs on others, he just expressed his own personal opinion on the topic.

His opinion is well grounded and has merit. He explaind his decisions and how he came to them. In addition he did not go on about hell and damnation.

I think Hamma's post was a good one and there is no reason for him to STFU.

[firecrackerNC]

even if there was a heaven and a hell,all we hear is 1 side of the story(aka god or jesus,whoever the fuck he is) as far as we know Devils just some party animal that loves beer and sex so god banned him and made stuff up about him,so mabey Heavens the old boring place and hells where the parties at,and anyway i like hot weather,heaven seems too cold for me

[Mtx]

Originally posted by Terran Sniper
Mtx, i have to take offense to that:mad:


YES!!!

I knew I could get a better fish. :)

Originally posted by Terran Sniper
You cant just go around spittin on my religion
So you openly admit that Cathlicisum is a religion? About time one of you maniacs admited the truth. Christianity is the belief in God (trinity for Lex). It is not a religion therefore you have just admited that being a Cathlic and being a Christian are two entirely different things. Thank you for your honesty.

Originally posted by Terran Sniper
[B]So, in my book, Ill be lookin down on you from heaven while you sit in the Playboy mansion's photo studio with your hands tied behind your back (my idea of hell).
so, i curse your name and will personally piss on your grave when you die

When you're burning in Hell and you can't figureout why I'll hold up the ten commandments. Read the commandment about "false Gods" and think about that as you pray to your statue of Mary. Then consider the fact that your "religion" creates saints and makes up the rules as it goes around and then.. just maybe.. you'll realize how stupid you really are.

*edit*

Don't worry about me going to Hell. All I have to do is pay the Cathlic church a large sum of money and all is forgiven. Sucker!:p

[Doobz]

Please, i BEG somebody to move this thread to political debate...

[Yuyi]

This thread sux Nuff said

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Mtx
Christianity is the belief in God (trinity for Lex).
;)

Mtx, what would we do without you. :love: :hug: http://cag.ca/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smileysex.gif

[Vick]

Originally posted by Pattywick
I think church has some good stuff in it like when they discuss about hmm important stuff about life. But when they go on about sheep and god and how we should do everything he demands thats the bad stuff about it
Good!

Originally posted by Terran Sniper
Mtx, i have to take offense to that:mad: . You cant just go around spittin on my religion just cause some horndog pastors got too aroused to pay attention to their eternal chastity.
So, in my book, Ill be lookin down on you from heaven while you sit in the Playboy mansion's photo studio with your hands tied behind your back (my idea of hell).
so, i curse your name and will personally piss on your grave when you die
Bad!

Now, who wants to guess who is older?

Edit:
Originally posted by 1024
I'm agnostic.
Me too. What a great word, I love it.

[AztecWarrior]

This thread sucks.

You have trolls who flame and vultures who come down on them.

Like Hamma said, politics and religion suck for debating because you can't win.

[Lonehunter]

Originally posted by AztecWarrior
Another thread turned into a battlefield:

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/courage/jpegs/bodyinthebattlefield.jpg
You know, it's funny. Squeeky doesn't like me posting pics of some guy with his finger up his nose but he doesn't say anything about dead bodies.

[AztecWarrior]

Originally posted by Lonehunter187
You know, it's funny. Squeeky doesn't like me posting pics of some guy with his finger up his nose but he doesn't say anything about dead bodies.

It's because the finger in the nose is gross.

[Happy lil Elf]

However, I would like to get past all of that and ask Hamma a question:

what do you live for? and knowing that that which you live for is irrelevant anyway, why do you continue to live?

it's the ultimate athiestic question, and I still have not found an answer for it.

seems to me that the second an athiest comes to truly understand his belief, he would simply commit suicide.

so can any athiests out there answer that for me? thanks


That's an easy question. I live for my friends. I live for my family. I live for the girl I love. I live for that feeling of euphoria I get when I haven't eaten all day and I scarf down the first handfull of McDonald's fries. I live for that great moment after really good sex where not only did you get off but you know you got your girl off, and more than once. I live for hanging out and being a total geek by playing DnD for eight hours straight. I live for arguing with people over important and unimportant things. I live for many things, the things I consider to be good in life. The happy memories, the good times and even for the bad ones that I can look back on with a meloncholy feeling every once in awhile. In short I live for the sake of life and everything it is shows me and allows me to experience on a daily basis and will never understand why anyone would need anything more to live for.

That said I think there is *something* that started this thing we call existance. That's about as far as my beliefs go. That it, whatever it is, cares or is even still in existance is where my beliefs start to differ rfom most of the major religions.

P.S. Horizontal scrolling is teh gay.

[Mr1337Duck]

You belive in the trinity, right mtx? You belive that if you repent and ask for forgiveness, you can be saved from your sin, right?

The Christian religion is divided into groups, the original and largest is the Catholic church, then Luther split off and a bunch of new denominations formed. The churches have just slightly different ways of doing things, but they are all united under Christ.


Yes, I actually do know what I'm talking about.

The reason they pray to Mary is because they belive that sinners are not worthy of praying to Jesus directly, so instead they pray to Mary, who passes the prayers on to Jesus. That's what that's all about, if there was a misunderstanding on your part.

[Mtx]

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
;)

Mtx, what would we do without you. :love: :hug: http://cag.ca/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smileysex.gif

Does that mean I can come over tonight?

:brow:

[Tex]

Originally posted by Mr1337Duck
Yes, I actually do know what I'm talking about.

The reason they pray to Mary is because they belive that sinners are not worthy of praying to Jesus directly, so instead they pray to Mary, who passes the prayers on to Jesus. That's what that's all about, if there was a misunderstanding on your part.

Actually, this is incorrect.

The idea of praying to God and Jesus is exactly what praying is all about. Catholics pray to God/Jesus just like all other Christians do, there is no difference.

The one thing that is different however, is that we also recognize the ability to ask saints, and Mary specfically, to pray to God on our behalf.

This does have a Biblical founding and I will look it up if you like...

Unfortunately, many Catholics (especially the Hispanic community) have taken Mary and elevated her to almost the same level as Jesus, and in many cases Mary is exalted more than Christ himself.

Now just because there are dissenters in a religion, (like there are in every one) doesn't mean that the root beliefs of the religion are wrong. It just means that the professed followers of said religion simply misunderstood or are taking it out of context.

Originally posted by Mtx
So you openly admit that Cathlicisum is a religion? About time one of you maniacs admited the truth. Christianity is the belief in God (trinity for Lex). It is not a religion therefore you have just admited that being a Cathlic and being a Christian are two entirely different things. Thank you for your honesty.

Catholicism is a religion. Ok, so how do you go from being a religion to NOT being a Christian? Catholicism is a religion centered around the belief that Christ is our Lord and Savior. Therefore, as a Catholic, you are by default, a Christian.

Originally posted by Mtx
Read the commandment about "false Gods" and think about that as you pray to your statue of Mary.

One thing we definately do NOT do is pray to statues. Idolatry is strictly forbidden as you well know. The statues that you see in church are merely there to provide a sense of humility. Much like seeing a photograph of a Jewish concentration camp makes you feel more emotional about the plight of the **** in WWII, so does viewing a statue of Jesus nailed to the Cross.

The Bible strictly forbids praying to falls Gods and worshipping statues. But it says nothing about simply making statues as decoration.

Originally posted by Mtx
All I have to do is pay the Cathlic church a large sum of money and all is forgiven.

Indulgences were a practice used by the Church in the middle ages as a form of penance. Back then, the church was, in many ways, the Government of the local township. It handled all legal matters, distributed news, helped the poor and the sick, and provided many other essential functions to the town.

When one confesses sins, they are given a penance to do to help them relieve themselves of that guilt. This penance comes in many forms, from meditation, to reading the Bible, praying, informal community service, and so on.

Back then, one of the ways penance was dealt with was through money. The idea being that, you work hard for your money by providing a service to the community. So your penance will be to work for the community on behalf of the Church.

As an idea unto itself, it made perfect sense.

However, money corrupts as we all know. Unfortunately, there were several people that were consumed by greed and this practice got out of hand. It was stopped soon after and forbidden to be practiced any more.

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
That's an easy question. I live for my friends. I live for my family. I live for the girl I love. I live for that feeling of euphoria I get when I haven't eaten all day and I scarf down the first handfull of McDonald's fries. I live for that great moment after really good sex where not only did you get off but you know you got your girl off, and more than once. I live for hanging out and being a total geek by playing DnD for eight hours straight. I live for arguing with people over important and unimportant things. I live for many things, the things I consider to be good in life. The happy memories, the good times and even for the bad ones that I can look back on with a meloncholy feeling every once in awhile. In short I live for the sake of life and everything it is shows me and allows me to experience on a daily basis and will never understand why anyone would need anything more to live for.

That said I think there is *something* that started this thing we call existance. That's about as far as my beliefs go. That it, whatever it is, cares or is even still in existance is where my beliefs start to differ rfom most of the major religions.

P.S. Horizontal scrolling is teh gay.

ok, that makes perfect sense. would you agree that you could sum up all of that by saying:

"I live for pleasure."

Pleasure, not as in a guilty pleasure, but the idea that you live because it feels good to exist.

Would you also agree that those pleasures are temporary? Meaning that, you have memories of all the past things you have done with your family, your girlfriend, your mcdonalds fries...but what happens when those memories are gone? You will die some day, and those memories will be erased. What good will they do you then?

I guess my question is: using your belief, who do you think is happier right now:

Hitler, or Mother Theresa?

The answer of course is neither! Because they're both dead!

Therefore, if you define your life by your pleasures, then sure enough, you will lose your life when you die because you will cease receiving pleasure and you won't remember the pleasures you've experienced.

Once you reach that conclusion, that everything you do is irrelevant, then the conclusion is obvious: might as well just get it over with! what are you waiting for? Are you looking forward to all the pain and hardship that you have ahead of you? Are you going to remember those things when you die?

Now believe me, I am not advocating suicide here...I'm just trying to draw out some discussion.

You mentioned that you do believe in a creator...but that's it. Well, why stop there? Have you ever thought more about that creator? Why He created us? What did He have in mind? Were we simply an experiment set forth upon this planet to live and die?

I am not trying to say that: "hey man, pick a religion."

but rather, just wondering why you have decided to stop questioning?

and yes, scrolling sucks

[Happy lil Elf]

Please god let us get off this page >_<

Just for pleasure? Not really. More like for a happy life. Similar but "just for pleasure" carries some negative overtones to it which I really don't think apply and also makes it an extremely easy phrase to twist.

As far as the creator goes, I don't really think there is some sentient being watching over everything or that, if it does exist, it has any particular interest in humanity. I also definately don't think, again if it did exist, that we could even have the faintest clue what he/she/it wants from us or for us to do. I know, the Bible. Thing is I think the Bible has some neat stories in it, kinda like Grim's Fairy Tales or The Wheel of Time, and that's it. Not the word of God, not the word of the son of God's disciples. Just a book. If you need moral instruction it's a good thing to read but otherwise /shrug.

Now then, the argument about the Bible I'm not getting into. I've been through it too many times and basically it always seems to end up with one person saying "No it's not!" and another saying "Yes it is!". That's boring and annoying as hell after the 10th time :p

I guess what it comes down to is people wanting to believe there's something more than just *this* world. Again what I don't get is why people need to believe there's something more. Just live your life, love your family, find some good friends and try to live a good life.

Oh and Lonehunter, edit that damn picture out. Thanks.

[Kaltagesta]

to quote terry pratchett:

"If he didn;t want them to eat the fruit, why did he make the tree?"

and i have asked my christian friend that, to which he replied 'so that god to test our free will. Right, so know WE get kicked out of the garden of eden because of what two people did x amount of time ago, while being led by the devil, a fallen angel [the angels of which have no free will... so.... he fell... somehow?]

which leads me onto my second point - why did he create us? Well, to see if we'd love him, given free will, correct? because he was basically bored with the angels he'd created which had no free will. but if he is omnipotent, how would he get boreD? and even if he did, wouldnt he already know if we were going?

and as for heaven and hell... why?

why did he create hell, why does he let us go there when we die, why dont we all just go to heaven? When i asked my friend this, he said god doesnt need reasons, hes omnipotent etc to which i said 'thats not logical' and of course he came back wiuth the ultimate retort - 'we cannot understand the ways of god' ... which basically means 'i dont know'.

So, in closure, theres no way you can ever win a debate about religion. you learn nothing, only that your belief that the other person is wrong is strengthened. There was this guy who thought that the way and taxctics that religious people use when arguing over their religions were stupid and so he created a religion about a saucer that flew around pluto with a small cat inside it or something, and basically nobody could prove any loop-holes in his argument, becaus he argues in the same way the other religions did.

[firecrackerNC]

ima just gonna say this,show me proof god exists,and no i dont mean the damn bible,if i believed every old book written by people who died long ago then that means elves and hobbits used to live here,show me proof,we have proof we evolved,so wheres proof we appeared outta thin air cause god wanted us to?when i see actual proof then Ill believe it

[Kaltagesta]

but its all a matter of faith...

haha, k.

[TekDragon]

Ok, i decided ill post a serious peice here.

First, to Squeeky, I want to say my experience in church (so you dont call me an ignorant ass-hat). I attended a Methodist church for 8 years straight. I was babtized methodist and after a few years I was Confirmed methodist. After continuing classes I am now legally able to preach as a Methodist in 48 out of the 50 US States.

Now, having said that, I will never go to church again. Once I hit 15 I started thinking for myself instead of letting others do the thinking for me. I realized that religion was simply a means of providing something to people who lack he ability to stand on their own 2 feet.

It provides direction for people who dont have the maturity to pick their own direction in life. It provides rigid guidelines for people who are too stupid to think for themselves. It provides a concience for people who dont have the common sence to already know the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have done unto you). Finally, it provides an organized structure for those who are too weak to stand on thier own.

From 15-18 I was in an in-between state. Half of me wanting to re-join the flock of sheep. The other half of me wanting to live my life the way i knew it should be lived.

When I hit 18 and went to college I realized I didnt need Church or God anymore.

You get out of this life what you put into it. No one is going to pick out off the ground except for yourself. Luck is for people who are prepared. Getting on top and staying on top takes determination and maturity from within, not from without.

Those simple rules of life that seem so obvious to me now were epiphanies at the time. I realized i didnt need a "crutch" to succeed in life.

I have never told myself that God doesnt exist. The point is: I DONT CARE if God exists. He has had no impact on my life other than that which i chose to devote to the church. He has never given anything to me. He has not taken away anything from me. I am my own man and i dont need to believe in someone else to make me who I know i should be.

[firecrackerNC]

nice post,Ima have to agree on you with what you said,God doesnt affect my life,if he exists good for him,but most likely he dont so im not going to pray to thin air,thats just MO

[BUGGER�GHO�T]

i'm a lutherin or however u spell it......


and bout doobz making the jesus gun joke thing, i dont mind much, i mean we got a quote, "if god was a geek this would be his church"..........course doobz joke was kinda random....:rolleyes: .........ehh, no comment.

[Onizuka]

first of all, hamma was fine i didnt mean to serously say that hamma should stfu.

Obviously i disagree with tek, or hell has frozen over. There is so much wrong (IMO!!) in what he just said that there is no way i can ever cover at least 1/3 of what i would like to.

Tek and most other americans have never felt pure joy. You dont need marijuana to get that either, being close to god will do that. Im not here to preach so ill stop, but tek, the happiest people live in the desert. With nothing but the only thing they need.

[Doobz]

Originally posted by BUGGER�GHO�T
i'm a lutherin or however u spell it......


and bout doobz making the jesus gun joke thing, i dont mind much, i mean we got a quote, "if god was a geek this would be his church"..........course doobz joke was kinda random....:rolleyes: .........ehh, no comment.

it wasn't random, read the posts before and you'll see it

see, my posts were perfectly appropriate for the lounge, however, this thread is not, there should NEVER be a religious debate in the lounge, that stuff belongs in the debate forum, so don't try and have a serious religious conversation in here without me coming in and acting appropriate to the lounge and making jokes

[Terran Sniper]

FirecrackerNC, you want proof? put your hand in the middle of your chest. feel that vibration? that is controlled by the brain, which is the most advanced computer in the known universe. God made that brain for you. Why did He do it? Because He loves us humans more than anything in the universe (known and unknown). He wanted us to have free will to be happy. He wants us to be happy. Without God, nothing would exist. Watch the movie Dogma. Underneath all the jokes and perverted content from Jay and Silent Bob, there are some deep, deep messages in there. If you'll pay close attention you'll find them.

[firecrackerNC]

And yet science seems to explain my organs much better then just saying god gave them to me,I belive in evolution,not some *god*,God is like the Yeti(that snow monster thingy),people swear they've seen and/or talked to him and yet we all know its bs,cept God has more belivers then a lil old yeti,least for now,years from now the pope might decide that the yeti is real and its god himself or some stupid shit,then everyone will bow before the mighty yeti!

[Khronos]

only been to church a couple of times.

[firecrackerNC]

I've actually been to church prolly around 15 times with my friends family and even after sitting thru that I still find it to be BS,some old guy standing on a platform reading stuff no one understands and singing stupid ass songs,I personaly find it a waste of my time but I've known others who really enjoy it and thats good,I guess you just gotta be brought up that way,I was brought up to not believe in god,my dad went to some Catholic school because he wanted to become a priest or minister or whatever they are,but he said after getting out of the school he realized that it was all bull,that everything he was taught was basicly a waste of time,And hes never been to church since

[Sputty]

This thread needs more of this:
http://www.sondralondon.com/nico/killer/satan.jpg

[firecrackerNC]

lol

[Mtx]

Originally posted by Sputty
This thread needs more of this:
http://www.sondralondon.com/nico/killer/satan.jpg

:confused:

[Sputty]

This thread needs more Satan

[BUGGER�GHO�T]

he came over yesterday, sorry....:p

[Lonehunter]

http://www.workjoke.com/satan.gif

[Kaltagesta]

Originally posted by Terran Sniper
He wanted us to have free will to be happy. He wants us to be happy.

BUT if we don't do what he says, we go to hell?