NC MAX's Sheild ability

[shadowseed]

My god, im sorry to bring this up again, but does the NC MAX's sheild abilty really suck, or what!!!????

I would not mind so much if it stayed active while shooting, but, when you need it the most, in a firefight, if i shoot back, it just turns itself off... hmmm... nice, so my options on confronting an nmy are :
1) power up the sheild and stand there like a good little target while i get shot.
or
2) shoot back and dont bother with the sheild....

They need to do something about that, at least, dear god, allow it to stay on while im shooting back...

[CunningLinguist]

I agree, compared to the other empire's abilities, it IS underpowered. However, it still serves some purpose. I've used a max a time or two, and i use the shield when i have to run across an open area or am attacked by something i can't fire back at (ie, reaver while in a scattermax). But other than that, it's fairly useless.

[Rightwing]

i like using it when a magmower is coming at me, i click it on and he mows right over me

[CraZy]

NC MAX underpowered you crazy?his anti-infantry version and others are most powerfull and can even fight with tank head-to-head....not the weak VS MAX with Pulsar little rifle :(

[shadowseed]

Originally posted by CraZy
NC MAX underpowered you crazy?his anti-infantry version and others are most powerfull and can even fight with tank head-to-head....not the weak VS MAX with Pulsar little rifle :(

Nooo... your Crazy! ;-)

Seriously though, the VS MAX dont have to fight a tank head on, it can just leap up onto a tree!!!.

And the pulsar rifle can mow down people much quicker than the scattercannon. Ive seen it happen!.

Im not saying the weapons are not balanced (as i think they are), im saying the special ability for NC is a pile of steaming turd.

[STEALTHKILLER]

i think they ether let u shoot while the shield is up*cause of the capacter ull still loses shield and getting shoot removes shield 2*
or let the max something like a mix of the tr and vs special abilltys, let are max be able 2 have a good stream of fire while avoiding shoots, personally i dont care as long as its better then what we got now.



*srry for spelling mistakes*

[Bad Mojo]

The NC Max shield is useful to not have to deal with getting shot with turrets on base approach while running. It's also nice to have on when you can't be watching your back while defending a tower, for example.

I'm not saying it's the best thing since sliced bread, but it has its uses. The VS have the same thing. A special ability that isn't directly offensive, but more utilitarian.

[CraZy]

i would like to have normal rockets cause with em you can do indirect damagew.

[Veteran]

Personal Shield + NC MAX shield == tough to kill

[shadowseed]

Originally posted by Veteran
Personal Shield + NC MAX shield == tough to kill


Personal Shield + VS MAX camp == tough to kill
Personal Shield + TR MAX jump == tough to kill

So whats new ?

[Happy lil Elf]

Meh. The shield isn't useless, but it's not all that usefull either. When I had a couple MAXs a while back I found it was helpfull in a few non combat situations, and that's about it. Gimme the TR lockdown or VS jump anyday. Oh well either way I can't stand the artificially imposed shitty turn rate in MAXs anyway so I guess even if all three MAXs had shield, lockdown and jumpjets I'd still be rolling along in my tank :p

[dscytherulez]

The sheild has its uses, but much less than the VS or especially TR. The not getting hurt by turrets is ok, but u usually take some damage because it runs out 2 fast...and it duznt last long enuff on tower assualts 2 be a good defensive sheild. I think it should either last longer or you should be able 2 shoot through it.

[Madcat170]

I think the NC and VS Max Special Abilities are Designed to fight the TR special Ability

NC MAX: put sheild up and walk at the TR MAX when sheild goes down start firing and get in his face, hopefully getting him mostly dead and killing him with his own splash damage.

VS MAX: Much more cheaky way, jump up and find a way behind em and start shooting em in the back, by the time they have turned around they should all be dead.

The NC MAX Ability is designed to fight against the VS MAX's ability because the VS MAX will jump in an attempt to make the NC max miss more while the VS MAX can still hit the slow moving NC MAX quite easily. to fight it they turn on the sheild and take damage till the VS MAX lands and probally has to reload or will do soon, thus making it an easy vunerable target.


Tactical shinyness *Dances*

[Vis Armata]

It seems that Smokejumper is thinking about NC MAX shields as well.

Click here. (http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum10/HTML/007139.html)

[shadowseed]

Originally posted by Madcat170
I think the NC and VS Max Special Abilities are Designed to fight the TR special Ability

NC MAX: put sheild up and walk at the TR MAX when sheild goes down start firing and get in his face, hopefully getting him mostly dead and killing him with his own splash damage.
So what your saying, is if my slow ass max's sheild holds out long enough to get close enough to the nmy MAX, than NC MAX's only use is agains TR MAX's. Great.


VS MAX: Much more cheaky way, jump up and find a way behind em and start shooting em in the back, by the time they have turned around they should all be dead.


Again, providing he just does not move, i get the chance to turn around. Nice.


The NC MAX Ability is designed to fight against the VS MAX's ability because the VS MAX will jump in an attempt to make the NC max miss more while the VS MAX can still hit the slow moving NC MAX quite easily. to fight it they turn on the sheild and take damage till the VS MAX lands and probally has to reload or will do soon, thus making it an easy vunerable target.


So by this, your saying the NC MAX's special ability is there to help it defend against other MAX's special abilitys, while TR & VS MAX's special abilitys help them to fight against everything...

Hmmm... i see your point.... NOT!!!!

PS: What a suprise, this guy is TR....

[Madcat170]

Uh..... bleh, i could flame back but im better than that.

I agree something needs to be done to boost the NC MAX's Special Ability

Firing thru the sheild would be good ( its what they originally planned but decided not to for some reaon)

And AS Vis Armata pointed out they are looking at the NC MAX

IT is the Weakest in head to head combat but also has its uses.

And i dont have any MAX's, cant stand the bloody things.

One great thing about the NC MAX sheild is very situational but nice. Can take an extra striker round and an extra lancer shot.

Originally posted by shadowseed
Personal Shield + VS MAX camp == tough to kill
Personal Shield + TR MAX jump == tough to kill

Just noticed that as well, dont think i need to say anything

[Indecisive]

Lol personal sheilds dont do shit.

The way i look at it

TR ability is offencive, but it makes you better at defence (lock down spam shit)

NC ability is defencive but it helps you with offence. (storm base and absorb damage.

VS ability is..uh versitile i guess.




NC and VS abilitys are pretty balanced. But with the upcomeing deci nerf, tr with its uber defence i think might get underpowered.


Yeah maybe they should let you fire while the sheild is on again. But, like originally planned, its gonna have to cut the refire rate in half.

That was the orginal plan. If you dont like it, fine it should stay as it is now. If you dont like either you can fuck off. :D

[Madcow]

Originally posted by shadowseed
PS: What a suprise, this guy is TR....

And what a surprise, you're NC and you're complaining and wanting a buff.

We won't exactly get anywhere with that line of thinking, obviously everybody is more familiar with their primary empire and for the most part people are little less rational about their empire's weapons and want to be more powerful. Trying to call somebody out for doing pretty much what you're already doing is pointless.

On the subject, I think the NC MAXs do get the short end of the stick on the special abilities. I think the usefulness of both the VS and TR special abilities gets blown out of proportion as they both have massive weak spots, but the TR is better than the other two, and the NC brings up the rear. I have seen some NC use the shield to great effect, but those were special occasions with extremely patient people willing to duck and cover and let their shield recharge over and over. It seemed to be a specific play style that certainly wouldn't appeal to me.
The shield itself also doesn't seem to lend itself to the whole idea behind the NC, it's very defensive for an army that is based around hitting hard. I wouldn't mind seeing it scrapped altogether but the only ideas I have to take it's place are entirely too similar to the TR anchor which would be too redundant. Somebody far more clever than myself would need to come up with something, but it shouldn't be hard to find that person ;)
I also wouldn't mind seeing the Scattercannon become a little more effective at a distance. I think it's just find at close range, and not bad at medium range. I don't think it should become an armored sniper, but increasing it's punch at distance would most likely increase it's popularity quite a bit as it lags behind the other empires AI MAXs right now.

And all this from a TR!

[shadowseed]

Originally posted by Gohan_VA
That was the orginal plan. If you dont like it, fine it should stay as it is now. If you dont like either you can fuck off. :D

Whoooo there cowboy!!!, dont throw your rattle out of the pram!!!


Originally posted by Madcow ]

I dont want to see the NC super-powered or anything, id be more than happy to get the thing to keep the shield up while im firing...

[Morat]

The Max special abilities are a simple attempt to create a scissor-paper-stone situation according to the three principle characteristics of armoured vehicles.

Firepower - TR (lockdown, loses manouvre ability while locked)
Manouvre - VS (Jumpjets, alway a bit low on firepower but can jump)
Protection - NS (Shield, loses firepower during duration of shield)

Now you can argue the toss over which is most useful but I bet you end up full circle saying "depends on the circumstances".

For my money, VS max is best for assaulting buildings, TR max is best for defending buildings and NS max is best in open country (Shield until you can work out where the fire is coming from)

On the other hand, I'm TR skum and can't be trusted because my max is so ubar and noone will rest until all TR maxes are scared of poodles and the striker bounces off a mini metro without scratching the paint ;)

Morat
(Werner)

[Indecisive]

dont throw your rattle out of the pram!!! :confused: :confused:




btw, hey atleast you dont have the beamer max:

http://members.aol.com/valin5/thequasar2.jpg

[Madcat170]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media/main/screenshots/official/2003/NLightning_Explosion.jpg

Dont tell me the beamer is underpowered!
Look at that!

Disclaimer: the above post is a joke any 1 responding to it with any negative attitude is an idiot. This is also a joke.

[WildEagle]

yeah our max sucks need sopmethin better or stronger shield or weaponry.

[Indecisive]

See beamer --> Quasar but

Guess what ---> beamer?





http://rebornlight.org/albums/hol/beamer1.sized.jpg



ah. That explains hella lot.

[dscytherulez]

On the other hand, I'm TR skum and can't be trusted because my max is so ubar and noone will rest until all TR maxes are scared of poodles and the striker bounces off a mini metro without scratching the paint

lol that was pretty good ;)

[Veteran]

If you think Personal Shield sucks, you aren't fully trained in the use of implants.

[STEALTHKILLER]

they suck becuse its easy to forget to put it on, i think it should be an always on implant, like second wind, just it doesnt take stamina away till u starting 2 get shot, then it becomes like it is now. that would make it more usefull.

[Caspertoo]

OMG you NC's are such whiners, you have the JH, which rules all in a despot sorta way, and the sparrow, which rules the air in more of a monarchy sorta way.

The phoenix which is the longest damn sniper gun in game and your uber shotgun max rocks up close with or without the shield.

Tell you what, have them calm the JH down just a tiny iddy bit and I'll fully support them jacking up the shield on your max's.

[shadowseed]

I think some of you (morat) are under the mistaken impression that the MAX shield stays on while firing... it dont, it was originally designed like that, but now it just turns off when you fire (which aint too helpful cos when you are firing its a high probability your being shot at or are about to be shot at)

The personal shield is not that much good, but thats just my point, its a smaller version of the MAX shield, so you lot out there that are saying the personal shield sucks, thats exactly how the MAX's shield sucks!

And for those that are bitter about us having the JH, god damn, its only as good as the Lancer or the Chaingun, they are just better in different situations.
I personally think all the empires are well matched now, in terms of vechcials (when the upcoming changes to the Prowler, Mag and Van come into effect), weapons and MAX's.

The *only* think i believe is that the NC's shield ability is pants.

So there.

[Caspertoo]

Well i'll agree the technology is flawed, but then again, aren't the VS the ones with the uber technology ;p

And yes the Lasher and MCG have their strengths but since they moved the MCG to the cone field of fire, it just sorta sucks, not good up close (at least not as good as the other two) and definently not good far away. The only thing it has going for it is that it has a 100 round clip. I'll take the cycler with its smaller cone of fire and no additional cert points anyday of the week.

[shadowseed]

Originally posted by Caspertoo
Well i'll agree the technology is flawed, but then again, aren't the VS the ones with the uber technology ;p

And yes the Lasher and MCG have their strengths but since they moved the MCG to the cone field of fire, it just sorta sucks, not good up close (at least not as good as the other two) and definently not good far away. The only thing it has going for it is that it has a 100 round clip. I'll take the cycler with its smaller cone of fire and no additional cert points anyday of the week.

No, VS are supposed to suck...errr hold on... they do!!! ;)

The MCG is really good when facing crowds of nmy's, you can spray fire at them, and if they are already hurting, you can get quite a few kills!.

[Madcow]

So the MCG is just as useful as the JH because if you happen to come across a large group of wounded players standing next to each other you can spray them? Are you even listening to your own logic?

At least I can admit that I like the Striker more than the other AV and think it's more effective. Same with the Pounder. If you'd said the Lasher was fairly even with the JH only you might have sounded objective, but the MCG is not up to snuff with the other HA. I'm fine with that, we have the areas we excel at and HA just isn't one of them. Just don't try to candy coat it to make your empire look more oppressed.

[shadowseed]

Originally posted by Madcow
So the MCG is just as useful as the JH because if you happen to come across a large group of wounded players standing next to each other you can spray them? Are you even listening to your own logic?

Errmmm... so you've never been in a large battle then ?, like say, in doors? Someone throws a plasma grenade, shots are fired, it happens. Try fighting a bit more...


At least I can admit that I like the Striker more than the other AV and think it's more effective. Same with the Pounder. If you'd said the Lasher was fairly even with the JH only you might have sounded objective, but the MCG is not up to snuff with the other HA. I'm fine with that, we have the areas we excel at and HA just isn't one of them. Just don't try to candy coat it to make your empire look more oppressed.

Whos says im making my empire look oppressed. Thats a bit over the top. If you cant use your empires HA, you must just be crap with it. All 3 empires HA are evenly matched, the MCG is great for sustained fire at medium-short distances and for covering large groups with fire.

If your so dumb that you run up to someone with a JH and open fire then get TK'ed by them, then thats your own fault. Keep your distance from JH's and the weapon is devistating.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by shadowseed
Errmmm... so you've never been in a large battle then ?, like say, in doors? Someone throws a plasma grenade, shots are fired, it happens. Try fighting a bit more...

Oh, nicely done. Snap. I've never played before. In a battle indoors the JH (or Lasher) will down an MCG user pretty quickly. The MCG isn't useless, but it isn't as good as the other HA. Even your own empire recognizes that, at least those who can remain fairly objective.

Whos says im making my empire look oppressed. Thats a bit over the top. If you cant use your empires HA, you must just be crap with it. All 3 empires HA are evenly matched, the MCG is great for sustained fire at medium-short distances and for covering large groups with fire.

Of course you're trying to make your empire look oppressed. That's been the entire point of your poll. Our empire has a bad MAX ability, everybody else's abilities are better.

Again, you don't need to keep repeating your inability to remain objective. I've used all the HA, and the MCG is the least useful out of all of them. But it just must be me, I just must be crap with it right? It's a lot easier to make blanket ignorant statements than it is to back something up, so go to town if that's what you need to do. In the meantime I'll interject some facts into your little fantasy. According to Thottbot, 22.3% of the TR have the HA cert. 31.5% of the VS have it. 33% of the NC have it. Odd, that. It would seem to infer that the NC is slightly more successful than the VS and significantly more successful than the TR at HA. I'll let you in on a little secret, if a weapon is better the player base will figure it out and gravitate towards it. The sad thing is that the numbers are probably skewed because a number of TR have the cert strictly to loot JH or Lashers. Sorry to crush your dreamworld like that though.

If your so dumb that you run up to someone with a JH and open fire then get TK'ed by them, then thats your own fault. Keep your distance from JH's and the weapon is devistating.

If you're so dumb that you don't realize a TK can only come from your own team, whose fault is it? The Cycler is easily as effective at range against a JH user, so I should waste 4 cert points on what? A bigger clip? Cooler sound effects? I don't hate the MCG, but it's the only HA not worth the cert points. Such is life.

[Queensidecastle]

The MCG is not as good as the other HA, but as previosly pointed out, the TR have the Striker so that more than makes up for it

[BuzzCutPsycho]

One weapon should not "make up" for another that sucks. They should all be equally usefull.

One would think that Heavy Assault is the top-o-the-line cert since you have to progress them from medium, that hardly seems the case in the TR.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Hammer
One weapon should not "make up" for another that sucks. They should all be equally usefull.

With that idea all weapons should be common pool. I think part of the point is that certain empires excel in certain areas where other empires may not.

One would think that Heavy Assault is the top-o-the-line cert since you have to progress them from medium, that hardly seems the case in the TR.

AV, Special and Sniping all progress from Medium as well. Heavy is not meant to be the be-all end-all of certifications, it is intended to be useful in it's particular role. The JH and the Lasher are both a bit more useful in their intended roles than the MCG. Again, that's a TR weak point but it's all part of the trade.

[TheRegurgitator]

Originally posted by shadowseed
Personal Shield + VS MAX camp == tough to kill
Personal Shield + TR MAX jump == tough to kill

So whats new ? i think u should switch the jump and camp

[scarpas]

i have almost never seen a nc max(ive only seen three), but vanu and tr maxes are everywhere (myself included, gotta love quasars and dual cyclers!!!)

[BuzzCutPsycho]

With that idea all weapons should be common pool. I think part of the point is that certain empires excel in certain areas where other empires may not.

Hey genius read what I posted again.

"One weapon should not "make up" for another that sucks. They should all be equally usefull."

That does not mean one should not be allowed to over-shadow another in a certain field, it does however mean one must not be so damn horrible that it is over-shadowed and beaten by a weapon in a lesser catagory and really have no particular use.

[Flammey]

Originally posted by Hammer
Hey genius read what I posted again.

"One weapon should not "make up" for another that sucks. They should all be equally usefull."

That does not mean one should not be allowed to over-shadow another in a certain field, it does however mean one must not be so damn horrible that it is over-shadowed and beaten by a weapon in a lesser catagory and really have no particular use.

What? You mean like the beamer?

[Indecisive]

I think that the MCG and the lasher are balanced.

Why? Because of the MCG's HUGE ASS CLIP that you can kill something like 5 people with before you have to reload.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Hammer
Hey genius read what I posted again.

"One weapon should not "make up" for another that sucks. They should all be equally usefull."

That does not mean one should not be allowed to over-shadow another in a certain field, it does however mean one must not be so damn horrible that it is over-shadowed and beaten by a weapon in a lesser catagory and really have no particular use.

Hi, troll. Thanks for stopping by.

Well, 'genius', maybe you should read what I wrote and then respond. According to the Dev's supposed intentions they didn't intend for each area to be equally useful. Some Empire's excel in certain areas and have weaknesses in certain areas. None of the weaknesses are meant to cripple your Empire (as they don't) and none of the strengths is meant to give an unfair advantage. Basically, it's been working pretty much as intended. They'll be doing another balance pass and we'll get to see how much they change and whether or not they make steps towards what you want to see, but I personally hope they don't make large scale balance changes. Whenever they make big changes (Jackhammer from Beta to right before release, Lasher) they seem to swing too far in the other direction.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Gohan_VA
I think that the MCG and the lasher are balanced.

Why? Because of the MCG's HUGE ASS CLIP that you can kill something like 5 people with before you have to reload.

Just out of curiosity, how would you then explain the massive difference in the percentage of certed people in HA for each Empire?

The big clip means little. If you are up close against a JH/Lasher you're almost certainly going to lose. The MCG is most effective at medium range is the argument. They've improved the COF bloom, but it still does bloom and that means that at medium range you're missing with an awful lot of bullets. Sure, you get to hold more bullets but when the idea is to put yourself at a distance where you're certain to miss a good amount it negates that benefit quite a bit. Sure, if you sneak up on somebody and jam it in their backs you could probably make it through 5 people without reloading. So could a Jackhammer.

[Doppler]

Originally posted by Hammer
Hey genius read what I posted again.

"One weapon should not "make up" for another that sucks. They should all be equally usefull."

That does not mean one should not be allowed to over-shadow another in a certain field, it does however mean one must not be so damn horrible that it is over-shadowed and beaten by a weapon in a lesser catagory and really have no particular use.

Now who's trying to make to make their empire sound over oppressed.

Before we start this I advise you to check my certs, neither my main nor any of my other NC characters posses the HA cert, I just cant stand using it, the overall bulk of my kills have been derived from 2 sources, Gaus and deci. (/mourn deci)

Originaly this post was about the NC max's shield ability, but as always some Terram looser tries to turn it into a "wah jackhammer buff the MCG i want a no skill weapon in everything" (i'm not even implying that all terrans are loosers i happen to enjoy my terran on emrald very much)

Well timmy i'm going to introduce you to the cold hard fact, granted the way i see them

In a point to point breakdown heres what you have.

Med Assault: Tie. While the gauss has an advantage in damage dealt the cycler beats it in accuracy (lack of bloom) and clip size. A lot of this goes either way personaly i loot cyclers whenever I can because of their ability to circle strafe like nobodies business something gaus users just dont have the clim size to waste ammo on anything but artisticly taken shots.

Antivehicular:Clearly TR the striker is the most versatile and highest damage over time AV weapon in the game period. Only the vanu even come close and god forbid they actualy have to aim to get their AV kills. Oh and if your pissed off about us being behind walls, Well no shit were defenseless outherwise our minds off guiding that rocket at it's target and those things dont exactly turn on a dime.

Max's:Clearly tr the lockdown ability blows the shield out of the water and not to mention the pounders ability to hit people (multiple i might add) around corners. Yes the sparrow is a good max but no better then the burster the reason you all hate the burster so much is your so used to the cycler and the striker that you cant figure out how to lead your target.

Pistols: Ill throw this in. IMHO the tr repeater is the only worthy sidearm in the game, if i'm at a close enough range to use my scatterpistol i might as well use my knife. The beamer however makes an excellent cigarete lighter that wont go out in the wind and draws on the same ammo as your lasher.

HA: Ah heres the kicker yes the JH is better indoors where about 75 percent of the fighting occurs, but anything wider then a hallway or a cc a MCG will own due to it's clipsize high ROF and ability to circle strafe.

I'm not going to compare tanks because quite frankly i hate vehicles other then my sund and once in a great while my gal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So no matter how many times this argument gets posted out heres the end basic quote, i may incorporate this in my sig.

TR NEWB:Sparrw? Newbhammer! Dude you just have to get the crosshairs near the target and click the mouse!

They should be ours!

[SandTrout]

:stupid:

[Doppler]

"The highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one's country."

Hey Hammer, for those of us who live in a democracy actualy its voting.

If your going to quote at least do it right and quote the source.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Doppler
Med Assault: Tie. While the gauss has an advantage in damage dealt the cycler beats it in accuracy (lack of bloom) and clip size. A lot of this goes either way personaly i loot cyclers whenever I can because of their ability to circle strafe like nobodies business something gaus users just dont have the clim size to waste ammo on anything but artisticly taken shots.

Agreed on the tie. More often than not this will come down to the better player. I've been absolutely destroyed by a good Gauss user before, it's a humbling experience. I've fought one on one with enough Gauss users to know when somebody is just more skilled than I am.

Antivehicular:Clearly TR the striker is the most versatile and highest damage over time AV weapon in the game period. Only the vanu even come close and god forbid they actualy have to aim to get their AV kills. Oh and if your pissed off about us being behind walls, Well no shit were defenseless outherwise our minds off guiding that rocket at it's target and those things dont exactly turn on a dime.

Agreed again. The Striker has it's faults (like the fact that for some reason it's easier to lock on a MAX than it is to lock onto a Vanguard an equal distance away) but I think it's the best of the AV.

Max's:Clearly tr the lockdown ability blows the shield out of the water and not to mention the pounders ability to hit people (multiple i might add) around corners. Yes the sparrow is a good max but no better then the burster the reason you all hate the burster so much is your so used to the cycler and the striker that you cant figure out how to lead your target.

TR has better AI and AV. The Sparrow owns the Burster. Leading the target is easy enough, the Sparrow is still a useful MAX against infantry which the Burster is not. The Sparrow is also better at AA. If you argue with this then you'd have to be arguing that the Lancer is better AV than the Striker, as the Lancer does better damage, doesn't give a lock on message and only needs to lead the target. You've already said that you think the Striker is better than the Lancer, so obviously that's not how you feel. You're using a flawed double standard to try and make a point.

Pistols: Ill throw this in. IMHO the tr repeater is the only worthy sidearm in the game, if i'm at a close enough range to use my scatterpistol i might as well use my knife. The beamer however makes an excellent cigarete lighter that wont go out in the wind and draws on the same ammo as your lasher.

I agree again, although it's more of a personal preference. I prefer the Repeater but I don't think you can necessarily call it better than the Scatterpistol.

HA: Ah heres the kicker yes the JH is better indoors where about 75 percent of the fighting occurs, but anything wider then a hallway or a cc a MCG will own due to it's clipsize high ROF and ability to circle strafe.

You already admit the JH owns indoors where most of the fighting takes place. Don't try to soften the blow by talking about situations in which the MCG is superior. As I already mentioned, in those situations the Cycler is already the equal to the MCG and therefore you're better off putting 4 cert points elsewhere.

I'm not going to compare tanks because quite frankly i hate vehicles other then my sund and once in a great while my gal.

It's best not to include tanks since the Vanguard is greatly preferred by the player base over the Prowler. If you had to admit another area in which NC was superior it might make it look as if the balance was actually pretty good. I have no issues with having the worst of the HA, it's all part of the trade.

[Doppler]

Madcow i find it funny as all hell how you can agree with most of my points and then when it comes down to HA the one clear advantage of NC when I point out that your weapon still has uses and was better then say, the prebuff lasher in 90% of all cases you want to go all "Oh were the persecuted tr"

As to your comments about the burster max versus the sparrow I bring up two factors.

1) There are not enough sparrows in the game to equal the advantages tr posses across the other MAX's this was a discussion about the NC max shield ability once upon a time.

2) The sparrow MAX is passable on infantry but sucks balls on vehicles, the burster sucks against close arange infantry (it kills them just fine at distance) but tears up vehicles. Also if your engaging close range infantry your taking splash damage with the sparrow so it's not a great plan especialy since youll be doing more damage to yourself then to them thanks to the anti armor rounds.


It's best not to include tanks since the Vanguard is greatly preferred by the player base over the Prowler

Ok lets read through my post again and see that it was all written from my personal experience, now that we've done that can we conclude that i dont give a shit compared to what the playerbase thinks. Thankyou.

But hey since you have the advantage in almost everything else lets compare the tanks shall we.

NC TANK:Only tank in the game where only one weapon system can be active at a time, so god forbid it have the biggest main gun in the game, holy god.

TR PROWLER: Highest DOT for a tank in the game but TR whould rather bitch about how it's main gun wont kill in one shot. Nevermind that they get off 1.87 shots in the time it takes the Van to fire once, never mind that the real damage on the prowler comes from the stupid chain gun.

If you want a vehicle that kills in one dead on shot your marauder works like a champ.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Doppler
Madcow i find it funny as all hell how you can agree with most of my points and then when it comes down to HA the one clear advantage of NC when I point out that your weapon still has uses and was better then say, the prebuff lasher in 90% of all cases you want to go all "Oh were the persecuted tr"

And I find it funny as hell that you can read my whole post and actually say that I'm claiming we're persecuted. I know this comes as a shock to the other empires, but I'm being pretty objective in my assessment. Yes, HA is better for the other two empires than for the TR. That's fact. No, that's not an issue. It's not persecution. That's what I've said all along. I'm not sure how I could make this any clearer for you.

In regards to your Sparrow argument, again let me bring up the Lancer. You claim that the Lancer is not as good as the Striker because:
Striker has a lock.
Then you claim that the Burster is just as good as the Sparrow, but that TR just suck because they can't lead. You totally ignore the fact that the Sparrow is the Striker of MAXs. It has an aircraft lock, it does good infantry damage, it does poor vehicle damage. Is the AA MAX supposed to destroy vehicles? Did I miss a memo? If the reason the Burster is equal to the Sparrow but not used as widely is the fact that TR can't lead, the only reason that the Lancer is not superior to the Striker is that VS can't shoot apparently. Lancer gives no lock-on message, does more damage per shot and fires faster than the Striker. I personally think the Striker is superior to the Lancer, but being objective also then admit that the Sparrow is superior to the Burster. You don't get to have it both ways.

Ok lets read through my post again and see that it was all written from my personal experience, now that we've done that can we conclude that i dont give a shit compared to what the playerbase thinks. Thankyou.

Rebel! What the player base thinks is important, because the base gaming instinct is to gravitate towards the most powerful weapons. While some may be happy turning invisible with a piddly pistol, most won't be happy until they're killing as efficiently as possible. Cert percentages support nearly every argument you've made so far (TR has highest AV, TR has highest AI/AV MAX usage) but when they no longer support your argument (massive HA differential, AA MAX differential) then you don't give a shit and it's useless. Convenient.

But hey since you have the advantage in almost everything else lets compare the tanks shall we.

Oh, that's right. I'm the one being persecuted.

NC TANK:Only tank in the game where only one weapon system can be active at a time, so god forbid it have the biggest main gun in the game, holy god.

TR PROWLER: Highest DOT for a tank in the game but TR whould rather bitch about how it's main gun wont kill in one shot. Nevermind that they get off 1.87 shots in the time it takes the Van to fire once, never mind that the real damage on the prowler comes from the stupid chain gun.

If you want a vehicle that kills in one dead on shot your marauder works like a champ.

The Prowler also has a reticule that jumps with individual shots making constant hits a near impossibility, and it has negligible splash damage (the true advantage of the Vanguard in my opinion). Also, the real damage on the Prowler doesn't come from the 'stupid chain gun'. The stupid chain gun isn't worth a whole lot, and I'd bet money you see that gun changed during the balance pass.

The Enforcer is every bit the equal of the Marauder in my mind, I even prefer the Enforcer. The cert percentage is slightly in favor of the Marauder, though, so I'll give you that.

Please stop playing the little violin for yourself if you're going to claim I'm acting persecuted. It detracts from your argument.

[SandTrout]

Can we get back on the subject of the FUCKING SHIELD! For shit's sake, lets try to stay on topic.

Pros of NC MAX shield: It can takes most of the damage from 1 shot of any of the AV weapons. Can be a life saver if you're running away.

Cons of NC MAX shield: You can't fire your weapon, makeing it compleatly useless in just about any real combat situation. It drains while running, so you can't have it up all the time(this is fair, but it drains realy damn fast). As far as I can tell, all hits drain it with full damage, even hits from standard 9mm rounds that would do exactly squat to you if they hit you head on.

Conclusion: Only increases the MAX's ability to be a meat shield for a couple seconds. Encourages hit-and-run tactics(which doesn't work well for MAXes). Does NOT increase MAX's deffensive ability in battle because the MAX cant attempt to kill the target while it is up.

Pros of TR Anchor: Doubled ROF and reduced recoil/CoF.

Cons of TR Anchor: You cant move and have a limited field of fire.

Conclusion: Effectivly increases firepower by more than 200% due to hicher likelyhood of each projectile hiting its intended target. Encourages weapons spam and holding possions(which it does effectively). Increases offensive power of MAX only.

Pros of VS jets: You have added vertical menuverability.

Cons of VS jets: Uses charge. Though not directly tied to the Jets, the VS MAXes' weapons tend to be less powerful relative to the other empire's maxes.

Conclusion: Though is lacks power in the numbers, the Jets do what they were intended to by leting VS MAXes access to towers, walls, and trees, while also increaseing survivability against vehicles by jumping over them. It adds to the Defensive and offensive power of the MAX.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Madcow
And what a surprise, you're NC and you're complaining and wanting a buff.

We won't exactly get anywhere with that line of thinking, obviously everybody is more familiar with their primary empire and for the most part people are little less rational about their empire's weapons and want to be more powerful. Trying to call somebody out for doing pretty much what you're already doing is pointless.

On the subject, I think the NC MAXs do get the short end of the stick on the special abilities. I think the usefulness of both the VS and TR special abilities gets blown out of proportion as they both have massive weak spots, but the TR is better than the other two, and the NC brings up the rear. I have seen some NC use the shield to great effect, but those were special occasions with extremely patient people willing to duck and cover and let their shield recharge over and over. It seemed to be a specific play style that certainly wouldn't appeal to me.
The shield itself also doesn't seem to lend itself to the whole idea behind the NC, it's very defensive for an army that is based around hitting hard. I wouldn't mind seeing it scrapped altogether but the only ideas I have to take it's place are entirely too similar to the TR anchor which would be too redundant. Somebody far more clever than myself would need to come up with something, but it shouldn't be hard to find that person ;)
I also wouldn't mind seeing the Scattercannon become a little more effective at a distance. I think it's just find at close range, and not bad at medium range. I don't think it should become an armored sniper, but increasing it's punch at distance would most likely increase it's popularity quite a bit as it lags behind the other empires AI MAXs right now.

And all this from a TR!