The Decimator [Archive] - PlanetSide Universe

Mazzic

2003-09-12, 04:42 PM

Doppler, try getting around behind them. If its in a Tower. do a Gal Drop.

Meanwhile, I'll be taking pot shots with my repeater while surging to get some distance in between the NC guy running at me with a Jackhammer.

But, christ. Just because YOU can't find a way around or, a way to Beat a situation. It does not mean that it is unbalanced. It's difficult to argue balance when you are talking about Player Vs. Player. Brute Force doesn't always work. Think creatively.

Also, if you are only effetive with one weapon... Well all I have to say to that is, no wonder you're bored.

Happy lil Elf

2003-09-12, 04:45 PM

Pounders aside I'd just like to say: Thank fucking god. People can shoot my lightning with a Deci and then get another off before I can even start to disengage. If I've taken any damage that's it for my tank. Try having to drive a tank back to the battle only to get killed by a couple rapid fire decis over and over for a night, it gets old quick.

The deci getting fixed isn't the problem. The problem is there's an indirect fire area of effect AI MAX that can lock down to increase it's rate of fire. Any one of those features by itself isn't too bad. It's when you put them together that it starts to become a major bitch in certain situations. That said, Pounders are pretty easy to work around if you use your head.

Prophaniti

2003-09-12, 05:51 PM

Are you joking? Oh no, now there's ONE LESS CHEAP WEAPON THAT TR DONT HAVE! Holy crap, you people should quit whining and look at all the rest of the great stuff that Terran don't have. Vanu? I haven't been in one battle with them without half a dozen lashernoobs blowing everyone away with their overwhelming cheapness. New Conglomerate - have you people forgotten about Phoenixes and Noobhammers? Honestly, are you that threatened now that you realize the Terran actually have something good?

Cease

2003-09-12, 05:53 PM

Prophaniti, I tried to figure out what your point was, but I can't.

Mazzic, its not about being good with one weapon. The Max Pounder is hands down the best AI weapon in the game. Its AE damage makes it brutal. Yea, its has its drawbacks and weaknesses, but secondary fire mode is what made the Decimator an appealing weapon for many AV users.

This was a bad change IMO. I have a BR20 on TR/Emerald who is Pounder certed. I know what the Pounder can and can't do. I've also been a die-hard decimator user. I would have rather seen the Decimator NOT nerfed, because IMO, this gives more merit for a Pounder nerf now.

WildEagle

2003-09-12, 05:56 PM

look be us and u woyuldnt consider being a noob our HA weapon lives up to what NC are supposed to have.Now u shutup noob.

Happy lil Elf

2003-09-12, 06:25 PM

Prophaniti,
Step One- Rephrase your message to make it coherent and perhaps more importantly to have a point.
Step Two-...

Step Three- Profit.

WildEagle

2003-09-12, 06:26 PM

Elf KotOR is out for pc just not yet

SmokeJumper

2003-09-12, 06:52 PM

The Decimator secondary refire rate change is not a bug.

On the other hand, it got added one patch too early.

There's a large balance pass being done now and the Decimator change was one of the (many) changes that should have waited until next week.

On the other hand, the incredibly accelerating Decimator projectile (it got up to 1000 m/s at the end of its lifespan) is now fixed also, so it no longer creates oddities in the game either, so doing the release now instead of next week works out anyway.

Eldanesh

2003-09-12, 09:46 PM

:D
Next week... Balence pass! Can't... wait...

(Kinda makes me glad I decided to try to learn how to use the Phoenix before the Deci bug was fixed.)

Argh... Balence pass will be cool. I am hoping it will be something like a microscopic striker tweek-nerf, Lancer adjustment, and Phoenix buff (Again, small one).

And now, to break out the soap-box. ;)

Striker really should just make ya stand still to get a lock-on. Phoenix ya have to, lancer you have to (unless you really want to miss that broad side of a barn).

Lancer, nerf infantry damage; buff vechicle damage. Max damage is fine. (I should not be able to loot one, shoot two vs maxes out of the air, then turn around and blast some infantry in 2-3 shots.)

Phoenix, give it a dumbfire mode and maybe a clip. (Or just make it something like an empire specific guided-decimator that you use ammo for, rather than the sitting duck-sniper-magnet you currently are with an obcenely long ttk on anything; maxes, I can deal with 3 shots to kill, but 3 boxes of ammo plus the one in the gun to kill a prowler?! the time to reload+fire the missle+guide it in its extremely slow flight path is just crazy as is.

Fine... I'll get off my box and stop hijacking. :o

Bismarck

2003-09-12, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
Prophaniti,
Step One- Rephrase your message to make it coherent and perhaps more importantly to have a point.
Step Two-...

Step Three- Profit.

UNDERWEAR GNOMES

Um, back to the topic, this is a good thing. Escpially for us Pounder guys..... :)

Flammey

2003-09-12, 11:16 PM

Uh, yeah, are we forgetting something? The Decimator is not AV. it is SA. It's a weapon meant to do many different things. Special assault catagory is weaponry meant for a broad range of things, such as, base killing, which includes gen killing, spawn tube killing, and other, it is also useful for anti infantry, anti vehicle and anti max. EVERY other weapon catagory has one main purpose. SA does not. I have used the Decimator, and it is fine in first firing mode. It should be the same for both mode, not different refire rates for different modes. The Pulsar doesn't fire any faster in secondary mode, why should the Decimator?

Veteran

2003-09-13, 12:37 AM

Decimator users have gotten so used to easy kills, it's only natural to expect a backlash. Kinda ungrateful if you ask me. It's not an AV weapon. Many people who take SA do so solely for the Deci. Now we'll see a rise in empire-specific AV, which is a scary thought considering how few people realize how good the Phoenix and Lancer really are.

MuNsTeR

2003-09-13, 03:45 AM

what did the decimator thingy even do?

MuNsTeR

2003-09-13, 03:45 AM

Yay!!! im a soldier.. finally.. i have a long way to go though till next ranks and stuff

Happy lil Elf

2003-09-13, 04:01 AM

Elf KotOR is out for pc just not yetYou do realize that's a contradictory statment, right? I know it's coming out for PC. But it's not out yet and there is no reason it should should have been released on X-Box months before PC other than Lucas Arts was giving Microsoft head. Once it comes out on PC I'll probably drop it from my sig, If I remember :p

P.S. I think I'm gonna pick up Jedi Academy and I'm really excited about the new Sam and Max game. Finally Lucas Arts is getting back to some of their best games. Now if only they could come up with a new Full Throttle and a Sequel to X-Wing Alliance :drools:

Cease

2003-09-13, 05:24 AM

Decimator users have gotten so used to easy kills, it's only natural to expect a backlash.

That holds a lot of water coming from a Striker user.

And to all these "Decimator is no AV" comments. You're ignorant of the game. But if you don't believe me I'll just post you a little description the Planetide web site gives on the Decimator:

The dumb fire DECIMATOR is the most powerful anti-vehicular missile launcher and features a disposable design; once its payload is fired, the Decimator launcher is immediately discarded. This design is what allows the Decimator to be smaller than other missile launchers.

It's an AV weapon - get a clue.

Yeah this will send more people to the empire specific AV. Yeah this will make Maxes last longer in battles. Both of these "results" favoring TR more than the other empires.

Jagd

2003-09-13, 12:58 PM

First of all, claiming that the Pounder is the only good MAX in the game, and therefore anything that makes it harder to kill a MAX is a buff for the TR is not only bullshit, it also makes you sound like an idiot.

Second of all, special assault is one cert that I will never unlearn, and I can tell that none of you whiners have used the Decimator otherwise you wouldn't be claiming the old secondary fire rate was an "exploit." Let me explain; when you are firing in camera mode you have to detonate the missile before you can fire the next round. This means that you have to wait for the rocket to travel to the target (initially at a very slow speed) and then click to detonate the missile before you can get back to first person view, make sure you're still lined up, and fire again. There are very few situations where an enemy MAX is close enough to you that you can successfully guide the missile to him, detonate it, adjust your aim, and snap off your second shot faster than the primary reload rate. We're talking about extremely close range for this to even be possible, and unless you're behind him you're already full of scatter cannon pellets.

That said, I don't have any problem with them synchronizing the refire rates because it makes sense that they would be the same. I wish people would actually think about what a change is specifically doing, and how much it actually affects gameplay before they start screaming and yelling about how it's a nerf, and how everyone will unlearn the cert, switch factions, cancel their subscription, blah blah blah. Calm down people, they aren't trying to systematically strip all the fun out of the game, they're making adjustments here or there and just because you have an anecdote that suggests they may be tweaking it in the wrong direction, doesn't mean they are. I am certain they have much more accurate statistics and information avaiable to them, and they seem to think pretty carefully about any changes they include in a patch.

So yeah, I'm not trying to be an apologist for SOE cause they still have a lot of work to do to get this game stable, but I sure am sick of all you forum spammers overreacting every time they make a change. See you out there, and I dare you try special assault with a re-exo for a week. You'll never look back.
-Jagd

SandTrout

2003-09-13, 01:20 PM

:stupid: It always seemed odd to me that the Deci could fire faster in secondary mode, but now that they fixed the decimator bug that seemed to be the closest thing to balanceing the Pounder in the game they need fix the pounder balance problems.

As it stands, the pounder is the most powerful AI weapon in the game, bar none. This is mainly because of the indirect fire option available to the grenads. The Pounder is the ONLY MAX with the ability to atack infantry around corners, and combined with large splash damage radius, they are extreamly hard to dislodge.

This is not saying that the pounder is the only effective MAX, only that is the most effective. I've had plenty of kills with the scattercannon, but nothing compared to what I've seen pounders rack up. The simplest(and probably most effective) way to balance the pounder would be to remove the indirect fire ability, makeing an anchored pounder vunerable to Thumpers, which anchored MAXes are suposed to be vunerable to.

Jagd

2003-09-13, 01:29 PM

I wouldn't have a problem with that, except that it doesn't make sense considering the fact that every grenade in the game has the ability to go around corners. Is the pounder really that overpowered? Jackhammers kill me way faster and way more often, so I don't know if I agree with you about pounders being the ultimate anti-infantry. The one thing I notice with any MAX armor is that I'm basically a big bullet magnet and unless I've got a couple engineers to support me I'm not lasting long.

WritheNC

2003-09-13, 01:37 PM

I think this is a good change for the Decimator. As a MAX user and an SA user, I think changing the secondary ROF is a good move.

There are other ways to kill Pounders. Other MAX's, and bouncing plasma nades from a thumper upstairs to kill the support crew(yes, you are going to die doing this) are good ways of dealing with it.

SA is awesome, but I think AV is better for open-field combat for all empires.

Slice

2003-09-13, 01:47 PM

One thing I'm sick of hearing about the pounder is how good it is. Have you ever seen a pounder unanchored? It gets destroyed so quickly the person doesn't know what happened. (happens to me from time to time) Now, you really don't see em unanchored too often, but think about this: NC, how would you like to have ur scattercannon max fire rate reduced to a crawl unless you completely immobilized yourself and reduced the radius you could turn? Now, I agree, indirect fire makes the pounder versatile, but like some have said before me, if thumper grenades can bounce around corners, why shouldn't a max's be able to? And YES, I have played against the pounder, and it IS a bitch, but I think it makes the game fun because you have to figure out innovative ways of destroying it. What's more fun then killing a Pounder that then sends you a tell "NO! I HAD JUST GOTTEN THAT! NOW I HAVE A TIMER!!! YOU SUX0R!!!!"

And off topic, sorta, I wanna post a pounder max's wet dream:

Imagine what would happen if you could load a pounder with Plasma nades! :eek:

Cease

2003-09-13, 03:45 PM

First of all, claiming that the Pounder is the only good MAX in the game, and therefore anything that makes it harder to kill a MAX is a buff for the TR is not only bullshit, it also makes you sound like an idiot.

Not sure if this was directed at me. I think it was. I never said the Pounder was the only good MAX. I said it was the best AI MAX. Just look in this thread and read the small amount of strategies brought about "Taking on Pounders." Go to the official forums and you'll find a ton of threads discussing nothing but how to deal with the typical TR anchored Pounders with engineer/medic support. Tactical discussions on how to route them out of towers and out fo areas where there is no "backdoor". Now go find me a ONE thread with similar concerns on Scattercannon and Quasar Maxes. The fact is, you won't find one.

Whats my point? My point is the Pounder is a damn good MAX. I'm not saying its overpowered. I'm just saying it kicks ass. The change to the Decimator in-directly buffed all Maxes across all empires if only a little. And since TR is often considered at having the best Maxes -- this obviously favors TR more than the other empires.

Xxzard

2003-09-13, 03:45 PM

DECIs are cool

Jagd

2003-09-13, 03:54 PM

The thing is, you can't have all equivalent certs balanced equally across all factions, but as long as they balance out as a whole the game works fine. Ok, enough people think the pounder is the ultimate MAX that's great and I'll agree with you, but our heavy assault cert is definitely the worst of the 3 because it is so inaccurate, and eats through ammo like nothing else. If you want to take the pounder down a notch, take the jackhammer and lasher down a notch, and then you have to give the lasher an AV alt-fire because it's the only heavy assault weapon that is useless against armor. Oh but then everyone would cry and they'd take away the AV damage again because the lasher was so powerful everyone was going Vanu. Sound familiar? Things are pretty damn equal when you look at an empire's vehicles and weaponry as a whole.

Cease

2003-09-13, 04:48 PM

I never claimed it threw anything out of balance. After fighting for a few hours last night I feel it has made the differences between the Pounder and the other AI maxes distinctly clear for this die-hard Decimator user.

I did experience more difficulty with Pounders as to be expected. However, Quasars and Scattercannons were still pretty much Decimator fodder.

Flammey

2003-09-13, 11:16 PM

Okay, yes, it does say in the instruction booklet that the Decimator is an Anti-vehicle weapon. But if that is so, why is it not in Common Pool AV??

As for the fix on the Decimator. It's fine. I can not speak for the sit still part of the Pheonix too much, except that when I fire my stolen Pheonix's, I'm usually behind an object. But what fool would stand still to fire a Decimator? Wouldn't it be easier to set it for dumb fire, shot, move, shot, move?? I don't know. I tried the Decimator out before the fix, and I felt it was fine, and that fire mode didn't matter. And I tried it out this morning, and it was the same, from my point of view. Maybe I just didn't notice. As for thinking your fucked now against maxes. Meh, grab a Lancer, or a Pheonix, or a Striker. Or continue using Decimators. When I went up in a Max against a Decimator before, I was always thinking to myself, Oh shit, I'm fucked. I don't think that's going to change.

Cease

2003-09-14, 02:37 AM

I never said I was fucked when facing maxes. I merely stated it was more difficult now which is what I expected and which I'm sure was the purpose of the change in the first place. As a max user I understand, respect, and welcome the change.

But this doesnt change my opinion on how this will affect gameplay as it currently stands. It also doesn't change my opinion that this pronounces the gap between the Pounder and the other AI maxes.

Acaila

2003-09-14, 02:43 AM

I am glad they fixed this. I felt almost sorry for maxs moving inside of facilities. I would see them, think "you poor bastard", pull out the deci, bang bang and it is dead before it knows what is happening. Atleast now they have a chance against them. And seriously, using the deci in alternate fire now is still they way to go in most situations. The splash damage is not insignificant, 3 near misses still kill a max. And finally lightnings will be able to attempt to escape, before this they were deci fodder (and imho lightnings need an armour/speed buff).

I wasn't the least bit afraid of tangling with a max before this fix, except possibly an anchored pounder. Even then if it is alone, you can usually come out on top or get a double frag. Now I am alot more cautious. No more 1-2sec max kills.

SandTrout

2003-09-14, 02:45 AM

Maybe the effects of the Decimator nerf will encourage the pounder to be rebalanced(read: nerf the indirect fire!). I don't cry nerf at the drop of a hat, but the pounder IS the only max with indirect fire capability.

Zakaah

2003-09-14, 04:53 AM

one way to fix the pounder get rid of indirect fire not nerf it then you could actually have some cover around a corner and take pot shots with not just decis but rocklets they could kick arse then other wise pounders will be the bane of enyone who sees one for years to come

Acaila

2003-09-14, 05:57 AM

I think nerf the AV damage. A pounder should not be able to beat an AV max even when it is anchored.

Cease

2003-09-14, 11:09 AM

I dont think nerfing is the answer. I think the Scattercannon and Quasar need a slight damage increase. The power of the Pounder isn't its indirect fire -- its its AE damage. The ability to hit multiple grunts is where its power lies. And the grenades are brutal, so it only takes a few splashes to kill a grunt. Thats the other area of power in the Pounder - killing grunts fast.

Essentially this allows the Pounder to handle multiple grunts, and doesn't require much accuracy either. The Scatter and Quasar have to deal with one grunt at a time and they require accuracy in order to do damage. In addition the Pounders damage simply kills grunts faster than the other AI maxes. IMO, they need a slight increase in damage in order to kill infantry faster. They do decent damage now, but I think they need just a little bit more damage per round.

I personally feel ALL AI maxes need to demons at killing grunts. The Pounder is, but the other two aren't. I can't go 1 on 1 with a Pounder anymore as a grunt. And thats great! But the fact is I can go 1 on 1 with Scatter and Quasar and win more than I lose. I think thats a problem. They take too long to kill a grunt.

By increasing the Scatter and Quasar's damage you make them better AI maxes but you're not robbing the Pounder of being the king.

Slice

2003-09-14, 11:41 AM

I agree Cease. Having played both VS and NC, the Quasar, IMO, is the only decent VS max, and it needs help. (havent tried the new AA max yet) As NC, the first cert I got was the Scattercannon, thinking "Hell yea, just like my pounder, get the AI max, roll in the kills and BR!" Instead, I could only kill troops one-on-one and if there were multiple troops and one of em had rocklet, or both, I was screwed. Considered, I probly suck with the scattercannon, but my point still stands. Buff the DPR slightly with the VS and NC AI max.

SandTrout

2003-09-14, 12:48 PM

I aggree that the scatter and quasar need a buff. The quazar should do more damage and the scattercannon should have a tighter pellet spread in general.

However, they still need to remove the indirect fire from the pounder, because they can spam nades down a corodoor at anyone comeing if they have audio amp(and by my experience, most do).

Acaila brought up another good point that the pounder still does good AV damage, and they can take on other maxes easaly at medium range.

JuSTCHiLLiN

2003-09-14, 04:55 PM

I've never been anything other than a SA user with my primary character.

I used the deci in secondary mode long before it was popular. I always thought that's how it was intended though because you can't move/dodge while using it.

Now, when taking down a pounder by myself I just equip 2 deci's. It's actually faster, I find.

Oh, and the pounder is definately the best AI max in the game and a locked down punder can take out both NC's and Vanu's AV maxes one-on-one. It's an area affect weapon, no aiming required.

What I would like to see is either phoenix users get 3 shots like the striker or the striker has to reload after each shot. Back when the phoenix could navigate hallways in the beta I could understand the 1 shot per reload but now, with it's 250m limited range, lack of mobility, and slow refire rate, I think it's the worst AV weapon. It does have the advantage of being to scout for a target (over base walls) but I think all of it's short comings out weigh that.

Prophaniti

2003-09-14, 10:02 PM

I realize the noobishness of my earlier post, and i apologize. i dont own PS, just play at my friends house, and i havent gone and memorized all the weapon names. Seeing as i never use the decimator, i got it mixed up with.. i guess a phoenix or something. I'm not quite sure on that one. Oh, Happy Li'l Elf? You cant say anything to me because at least I'm not some loser who replies to every freakin' post on the forums. :trrocks:

SandTrout

2003-09-14, 10:20 PM

Proph, don't speak on something you don't know about, it saves yourself some embaresment and slows the progression of my carpol tunnels syndrome ;)

Cease

2003-09-15, 01:19 AM

I can't really comment on the AV damage of the Pounder. When I'm in my Pounder, the last thing I wan't to see is another Max. And when I'm defending and have some Engies behind me, I have at least one of them holster their nano gun and have Striker/Deci ready. Most Max players seem know to get in the face of a Pounder. And when they do that its generally lights out for me. The Falcon and Sparrow Maxes have to be careful not to get caught up in their AE damage.