Extra Pistol Slot for Infils

[1024]

I know this has been discussed a few times, but i was wondering, would an extra slot on the infil really hurt that much? it's just so annyoing to have to swtich to a REK every tiem you come up to an enemy door.

And please, if you've never played as an infiltrator, don't bother replying. It's something you have to experience first hand.

[JetRaiden]

I think it, but it'll never happen.

[DoomWarrior]

and be able to two hand em to, o and so it doesnt take so long to hack/then respond to a threat with ur pistol while having to open up ur inventory just to fire back, hehe dual Repeaters...

[Jagd]

I'd have to say that being invisible ought to be enough to keep you covered while you hit i and right-click the REK. I have to do it to grab a decimator out of my pack all the time, even in the middle of firefights with MAXes running around, so I don't see how an infiltrator skulking around by themselves at the back door to a base is that hard done by. It takes less than 2 seconds.

EDIT: And yes I have played with infiltration, I redid all my certs to be a stealth ninja for a couple weeks (Combat Eng, Adv Hack, Infil, Pounder, Mosquito) before realizing I have a hell of a lot more fun as a teamplayer.

[gonnagetyou]

I don't want to see Cloakers carrying two pistols, but I wouldn't be against them adding a seperate slot that only REKs or grenades could be carried in.

[DDSHADE]

i thought so once and then i found out from a reply that u right-click what u want in ur inventory to go to ur holster
i no jagd said this but just to hurry it up k bye

[MilitantB0B]

I pondered this for a while, but instead I would like to see it become a one cert point cert that puts a rek on the end of whatever gun you are carring, allowing you to hack doors with a rek attached to the end of you pistol or gun. Whatcha think?

[DoomWarrior]

question, how do u get pictures into ur signature

[BUGGER�GHO�T]

I wouldn't mind it. Though then knifes will be utterly unwanted if you could slip the rek into your pants and rip out your gun. I mean Inf. are for sabotage (thinkng of Miir's 2nd movie), not for the front lines. The second holster would be atleast just for ACEs, cause you dont take out genorators with Beamers, REK, nor do you with a knife.

[1024]

Originally posted by Jagd
I'd have to say that being invisible ought to be enough to keep you covered while you hit i and right-click the REK. I have to do it to grab a decimator out of my pack all the time, even in the middle of firefights with MAXes running around, so I don't see how an infiltrator skulking around by themselves at the back door to a base is that hard done by. It takes less than 2 seconds.

EDIT: And yes I have played with infiltration, I redid all my certs to be a stealth ninja for a couple weeks (Combat Eng, Adv Hack, Infil, Pounder, Mosquito) before realizing I have a hell of a lot more fun as a teamplayer.

It's not just getting out your REK. You obviously didnt play as an infiltrator enough if you don't realize this. When you're in a hot area, sometimes you need ot wip out your weapon in an instant. if you're approaching a door or get jumped when approaching one, i think it would be fair to give the guy, with no armor and who gets crippled by stray shots, a fair chance at actually survivng. And being invisible doesn't really matter that much, as everyone and their mother has DL. I can beat someone even if they have DL most of the time, but i'd just like ot have a fair chance more often.

Originally posted by gonnagetyou
I don't want to see Cloakers carrying two pistols

Me too. I defienetly wouldn't want to see dual anything in this gmae. Dual anyhting just seems overpowered. Just another pistol slot, thats all i ask. :D

[Endless]

To what you just said 1024, if your hacking and a guy catches you, you're pretty much toast regardless. Or maybe I just read it wrong and I'm a dumbass...

[1024]

Not neccesarily. I've taken out 3 guys with cyclers all at one time with my AMP, and they had the jump on me. I've learned that whenever i'm hacking, start the hack crouched with surge turned on, and be ready to cancel the hack and run at the first sign of damage. You'd be surprised how many time this has saved my ass.

Now that i think about this extra pistol slot, it seems it wouldn't benefit the stupid infiltrators as much, but whatever...

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by � � � 4
Now that i think about this extra pistol slot, it seems it wouldn't benefit the stupid infiltrators as much, but whatever... Good, infiltrating isn't for the stupid.

[1024]

Well it doesn't matter cause this will probably never happen.

[SandTrout]

Sadly, you're right:mad:

[Everay]

i was a infultrator at one time, but i got rid of it and combat engy, for Special assault, and ive been owning, well, when i dont get 3 frames a second

but yea, i could see as to why this would be such a good thing for infultrators, i mean, its not like your gonna carry around a rifle, that would be over powered

[1024]

Exactly. ANyone who says this would overpower the infiltrator is crazy. "oooh wow, he gets a grenade/pistol/rek that he can access quicker. Everyone is going to be one and pwn!!!" :rolleyes:

It's bad enough 1 shot takes away almost 1/4 of our health...

[321]

That would be awesome.

[Doppler]

REK Implant, that way everyone wins, not just infiltrators. How do you think us engineer medics feel just standing there fumbling for a rek and we arnt even invisible.

Also man your argument about how it's not fair because everyone has darklight is not acurate because people taking darklight Is a responsive measure to the sheer number of cloakers, if not now then certainly back after retail release.

[Vernam]

No extra pistol slot, I just want a grenade holster.

[1024]

Originally posted by Doppler
Also man your argument about how it's not fair because everyone has darklight is not acurate because people taking darklight Is a responsive measure to the sheer number of cloakers, if not now then certainly back after retail release.

You don't know how many people randomly turn on DL until you play an iniftrator full-time.

[DoomWarrior]

how do u get pictures into ur signature?

[Everay]

Originally posted by � � � 4
You don't know how many people randomly turn on DL until you play an iniftrator full-time.


tis very true, in a large battle, about every ten seconds i turn darklight on and do a 360 turn and turn it back off

[Queensidecastle]

In my experience as a Cloaker most people do not have Darklight and hardly anyone has Audio Amp. On several occasions I have snuck into Base CCs and hacked them right in front of several enemies and even somtimes I escaped. Darklight is only difficult when used my MAXs guarding CCs but that is where Boomers come in.

As far as 2 pistol slots goes, its just not gonna happen. I think we all know its not going to happen at least in the near future because Infiltrators are already ausome assassins. You just have to become a master of the inventory switch. Hardcore infiltrators are usually: Adv Hack, Adv Medic, Combat Engy + vehicle and perhaps a MAX suit. In a loadout that utilizes all your abilities you have to switch up to 4 objects out of your inventory. Even with 2 pistol slots you would still be switching 3 objects. As far as the REK specifically goes, mastering infiltration under fire while getting the hack for your team and not fumbling your REK is what skill is all about. It is kinda annoying at times but it gives another way for really skilled infil/hackers a way to shine.

Finally I wanted to address the "cloakers are not team players" idea. Cloakers just do not do what other squad members do. Sometimes they follow behind for the hack, but many times they are working the edges of battle to find that AMS or doing sabotage. These are all invaluable and support the Squad in an indirect way. Also Cloakers are the best at battle rez since they can go unoticed


http://stats.planetsidegaming.com/15/600357/stats.png

[Nitsch]

I would just settle for a better way to switch weapons... rather than two holsters.

Maybe have designated second weapon so that if you hit shift+1 you would activate the secondary weapon of that slot.

EDIT:

Although this idea would make the decimator.... the god weapon.

[Everay]

wait, can you add the weapon to your favorets? so like you can switch out quick? i know you can with med kits.

[Queensidecastle]

Although this idea would make the decimator.... the god weapon.

I saw the devs comment on hotswitching inventory items before and I believe this was the exact reason

[Indecisive]

Methinks that slot 2 should be the nade hoster.

and 3 the rek, which should be built into the infil suit.

[Jagd]

No you can't, but if you right click on an item in your backpack it automagically jumps to the first slot (or second if it's a rifle). This makes swapping inventory around very simple and very fast, which is why I still don't believe they should add another pistol slot. If they were to add another pistol slot they'd have to take away backpack space, and I'm sure you guys wouldn't like that.

As for cloakers/teamplay that wasn't meant as a dis against infiltraitors, it's just that when you're used to travelling with your squad, clearing towers together, crashing your deliverer into a hotspot and jumping out guns blazing, being a cloaker is a big downer. I had fun playing as a cloaker, but only when soloing because when squadded I am inevitably drawn towards toe-to-toe combat.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Doppler
REK Implant, that way everyone wins, not just infiltrators. How do you think us engineer medics feel just standing there fumbling for a rek and we arnt even invisible.

Wait, how do engineer medics feel? First of all, you are making a choice to have your tools in both of your pistol slots. You have two slots to begin with. Second, you still have a rifle slot so you have a gun available to you, you possibly have two rifle slots (so you can even carry your glue gun). You can easily have an REK as well as a weapon available, and still have a tool or two at your beck and call without an inventory switch. Infiltrators are the only people who have a single inventory box available, we can either choose to have the REK ready and be helpless or choose to be ready to defend ourselves and take another precious half-second or so to switch out at the right time. Considering how badly they gimped the infil class with their base benefits they could at least throw us a bone.

[Nitsch]

Maybe if they only let you hotswitch the pistol slots... that would solve the decimator issue.

This would also help when you want to change grenades. Often i have a plama grenade equiped when i need that jammer one quickly.

[SandTrout]

Originally posted by Madcow
Considering how badly they gimped the infil class with their base benefits they could at least throw us a bone. :stupid:

[Doppler]

Originally posted by Madcow
Wait, how do engineer medics feel? First of all, you are making a choice to have your tools in both of your pistol slots. You have two slots to begin with. Second, you still have a rifle slot so you have a gun available to you, you possibly have two rifle slots (so you can even carry your glue gun). You can easily have an REK as well as a weapon available, and still have a tool or two at your beck and call without an inventory switch. Infiltrators are the only people who have a single inventory box available, we can either choose to have the REK ready and be helpless or choose to be ready to defend ourselves and take another precious half-second or so to switch out at the right time. Considering how badly they gimped the infil class with their base benefits they could at least throw us a bone.

You run around i-n-v-i-s-a-b-l-e. You are making a choice to play an infiltrator. Secondly the possiblity of having a second rifle slot implies the expendature of another 3 points, plus another 2 at the minimum if i want to runa round with something outh then a supressor.

Do i disagree with you that I felt it stupid that interlink facility should have affect on non moving people in general and infiltrators in particular, no. However you knew the risks and the rewards when you signed on, if not having armor bothers you, wear agile, if having to fumble for a rek bothers you, wear agile and have your second pistol slot. These are choices you made and things you give up when you become an infiltrator. Too often people fall into this "Daddy i wanna be the ultra cool killer dude without risk or drawback." it doesnt happen.

Oh and if your wondering why I get so heated about people whining about their lot as infiltrators it's because I'm an infiltrator.

[Jagd]

So showing up on interlinked base radars is that big of a deal??? My audio amp spots all of you clowns unless you're crouch walking, and once there are motion sensors in the field I don't even need to use the implant... Isn't the point of being an infiltrator to give you guys some sort of perverse pleasure in having to make do with fewer resources? That's what I thought...

[1024]

Originally posted by Queensidecastle
In my experience as a Cloaker most people do not have Darklight and hardly anyone has Audio Amp. On several occasions I have snuck into Base CCs and hacked them right in front of several enemies and even somtimes I escaped. Darklight is only difficult when used my MAXs guarding CCs but that is where Boomers come in.

Seriously, are we playing the same game?

1. A REK is loud as fuck, with the most distinct osund in the game.
2. MAXs aren't the only thing you need to worry about. A good infil can handle 2-3 guys,m but after 3, unless they're complete n00bs, you're dead.

[Everay]

yea, i feel embarised now, a damned cloaker killed me, when i already spoted him, and had the jump, that never happens, they must be getting good

[connovar]

wanted to post a bout 10 replies ago, and now youve said all my points.

Yes swapping in and out is a total ball ache but its more than made up 4 when you take someone totally by surprise with a couple of well placed frags, the only thing that would make it better is if the avatars had facial expressions so you could see the look of surprise on their face:eek:

http://home.btconnect.com/Stoners-World/sjoe2.jpg

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Jagd
So showing up on interlinked base radars is that big of a deal??? My audio amp spots all of you clowns unless you're crouch walking, and once there are motion sensors in the field I don't even need to use the implant... Isn't the point of being an infiltrator to give you guys some sort of perverse pleasure in having to make do with fewer resources? That's what I thought...

Jagd,
Showing up on an interlinked base radar also means that Spitfires shoot at you even if you're invisible and stationary. One combat engineer can single-handedly castrate an entire infil squad. Literally the only way for an infil to possibly take out a spitfire is to surge past it dropping a boomer right next to it and detonating the boomer, hoping the Spitfire hasn't killed you by then and also removing 20% of your inventory. The fact that we show up on radar constantly is a double screw as well. Yeah, your audio amp spots us unless we're crouch walking like you said. Most infils who know what they're doing know when to start crouch walking. If you don't have the patience to crouch walk a long time through a ton of enemy then the class really wasn't for you. Now even that has been taken away in many situations. I appreciate that you played infil for a couple of weeks and it wasn't for you. It's not for everybody. You haven't played since the base benefits and really don't know exactly how hard it hit.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Doppler
You run around i-n-v-i-s-a-b-l-e. You are making a choice to play an infiltrator. Secondly the possiblity of having a second rifle slot implies the expendature of another 3 points, plus another 2 at the minimum if i want to runa round with something outh then a supressor.

You talked about an engineer/medic. That's a total of 6 certs. Where you spend the rest of your certs is up to you. Do you have a choice to have a larger inventory and an extra rifle slot? Yup.

Do i disagree with you that I felt it stupid that interlink facility should have affect on non moving people in general and infiltrators in particular, no. However you knew the risks and the rewards when you signed on, if not having armor bothers you, wear agile, if having to fumble for a rek bothers you, wear agile and have your second pistol slot. These are choices you made and things you give up when you become an infiltrator. Too often people fall into this "Daddy i wanna be the ultra cool killer dude without risk or drawback." it doesnt happen.

What are you talking about? I knew the risks when I signed on? That's funny, I could have sworn that for the months that I was playing no mention was even made of a base benefit that would completely gimp the infil class and actually take away their invisibility. That wasn't a risk that I was made aware of. That's why I created 2 main characters, one to be a standard grunt and one to be strictly infil. Having to fumble for an REK has never been that huge a deal, it was part of the deal. Of course part of the deal is also that I can see when an enemy is using dark light to find me (I can't, much of the time). Part of the deal is being invisible while stationary if nobody is using DL on you (the spawn tube bug already screwed that, the base benefits further screwed it). Part of the deal is being barely visible while crouch walking (the sniper bug screwed that). What I'm saying is that the infil class was certainly not overpowered before these changes, and since the changes they are at a huge disadvantage. Possibly giving something to the class instead of continuing to take things away might be an answer. The dedicated infil is most likely the only character who has received nothing but nerfs since this game came out. The only infil 'buffs' are still pending and that's the Beamer change and the Vanu knife change. Puhleeze.

Oh and if your wondering why I get so heated about people whining about their lot as infiltrators it's because I'm an infiltrator.

Wasn't really wondering, and if you're getting heated on a message board it might be time to take a step back.

[Queensidecastle]

Yep 1024, we are playing the same game. At least I think we are. I am a dedicated infiltrator and the complaining about darklight is overhyped. It is actually supposed to be extremely hard to sneak all the way to a CC but good Infiltrators do it every single day. As far as hacking with more than 3 people in the same room, you can pull that off a lort more than you think. Lots of people are just AFK in the CC room and after the hack has been going a while with no resistance, people abandon the CC all together or are ridiculously AFK. I have sucessfully ruined many hacks this way. As a matter of fact, reading the AFKness of a group of troops is a skill that any good Infiltrator must master.

As far as the Interlink shit, Madcow has it right. Its total bullshit for Infiltrators right now and totally ruins the point of a cloaking class at all. The spirit of the Interlink benifits is so that you can see enemies on your base radar but I dont think it was meant to apply to cloakers. I think that it was just too hard or would take too long to code an exception for cloaking so they just left it out. What we need to do is have the Devs realize how this shafted the whole concept of cloaking and get them to fix it.


http://stats.planetsidegaming.com/15/600357/stats.png

[Jagd]

Ok wait a minute here guys... From reading the patch notes it says that Interlink radar picks up running troops, even cloakers. This means that you just have to walk or crouch walk to get past the spitfires, which is still a leg up stealthwise, since no matter how slowly everyone else moves we're still spitfire bait. I thought infiltration was all about patience, and this doesn't sound like it changes anything.

[Kikinchikin]

Agreed. I wish I could have a second slot just for the REK. Would be very useful. But at the same time it isn't THAT big of an inconvenience, so I dont really care.

About darklight. I've played as both sides of the thing. I know i've pissed off quite a few infils because I turn on Darklight at random times. That's not the darklight being overpowered thats someone whos smart using it properly. And as an infil i find myself getting angry when someone does what i did as a grunt. All part of the territory.

The sheer amount of surprise makes up for most handicaps infils have. Today I was in a zerged base and was looking right at an infil and another guy both wanting the LLU of a base about to be capped. Without warning i down both with my amp then am able to wreak a little more havoc b4 getting oneshotted by the n00bhammer.

So yes I think infiltrators are almost perfectly balanced, altho a slight nerfing of the interlink benefit so we dont show up even if we are crouch walking, thus making spitfires not shoot at us if we are crouching might be in order.

[1024]

Ya, i'd have to agree with you on the AFKness on long time CC defenders.

And Madcow, i completley agree with you and have argued the same point so many times. People so, "Oh but you guys are invisible!" But the DL bug screws that most of the time. People say, "Just crouch walk and you can get by so many times!" But the scope bug screws that. Etc.

[Jagd]

What are the "scope bug" and the "DL bug" that you're referring to?

[MilitantB0B]

To all of you saying that the number of people with darklight are directly related to the number of cloackers are wrong. It is directly related to the suckiness of all the other implants. There is very few good implants, and only a hand full that are really usefull at all outside of very specialized encounters. Make better alternatives to darklight, and people will chose it. Lets face it, darklight isn't very "sexy" and if there was an implant that was as practicle as DL and was cooler, it would help the cloackers a great deal.

[1024]

Originally posted by Jagd
What are the "scope bug" and the "DL bug" that you're referring to?

scope bug = cloakers are extremely visible in the scope, even when crouch walking

DL bug = sometimes when people activate DL it doesn't show the little symbol next to their name

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
To all of you saying that the number of people with darklight are directly related to the number of cloackers are wrong. It is directly related to the suckiness of all the other implants. There is very few good implants, and only a hand full that are really usefull at all outside of very specialized encounters. Make better alternatives to darklight, and people will chose it. Lets face it, darklight isn't very "sexy" and if there was an implant that was as practicle as DL and was cooler, it would help the cloackers a great deal.

Actually quite true.

[Doppler]

Audio amp is a far superior sensory implant, allows you t ambush the enemy and know their psoition and even helps snag some of those less experienced cloakers.

Surge is the best damn implant in the game bar none.

But yes you only need to loose one base hack because a good infiiltrator slipped in and rehacked right under your nose, or planted a boomer at your feet and surged, before that darklight implant starts to look pretty good.

[User58]

I have a very related question. I turned in my infil suit for MA. If I keep MA and get the Infil suit back, can I carry my Gauss while wearing my Magic Spandex?:confused: :clap: :clap: :rock: :spam: :ncrocks: :trsucks: :vssucks: :hitit:

[1024]

Well, you could carry it around, just not shoot with it. The Infiltrator suit has no rifle slot.

[User58]

Originally posted by � � � 4
Well, you could carry it around, just not shoot with it. The Infiltrator suit has no rifle slot.

I've seen cloakers with weapons, hell, I've been hosed by them. What the heck did they kill me with? A REK?

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Jagd
Ok wait a minute here guys... From reading the patch notes it says that Interlink radar picks up running troops, even cloakers. This means that you just have to walk or crouch walk to get past the spitfires, which is still a leg up stealthwise, since no matter how slowly everyone else moves we're still spitfire bait. I thought infiltration was all about patience, and this doesn't sound like it changes anything.

Enhanced RADAR Abilities: Facilities linked to an Interlink Facility will gain certain enhancements to their RADAR systems. All enemy vehicles will appear on RADAR, except for cloaked vehicles moving at 50% throttle or less and deployed Advanced Mobile Stations. All running enemy infantry, including cloaked Infiltrators, will appear on the RADAR. Enemy infantry, including cloaked Infiltrators, will appear on RADAR if they are within a Spitfire Turret or Motion Sensor's detection radius, regardless of whether they are moving or not.

And by the way, before the patch you could have walked up to a Spitfire without it firing on you. I did it many times, that had nothing to do with the infil suit. Get point blank with an MCG/JH/Lasher and let loose before it can fire on you.

[Otherick]

how about being able to carry ur knife in one hand and ur pistol/rek in the other this way if u hackin the door u can swipe at the guy and confusin him then gettin ur pistol out.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by User58
I've seen cloakers with weapons, hell, I've been hosed by them. What the heck did they kill me with? A REK?

They killed you with a pistol, that still doesn't mean they have a rifle slot.

[SandTrout]

The main thing is that the spitfires are always fireing at you, while you have no effective way of bypassing them. The bugs we could deal with to an extent, a lot of snipers arent that good and we could surge to the back door and whatnot. However, spitfires placed around any entrance means that you cant get past unless you have a jammer grenade or command uplink for EMP. This can be crippleing because it takes at least(I've forgoten the exact #) 8 boomers to take out a generator, which means at least 3 trips back to the inventory terminal to restock while the enemy is geting these "This facility's generator is under atack" messages.

About the "risks for signing on", we always figured we could at least sneak past the defences without geting turned to swiss cheeze by 1 spitfire by the door. This is also why I've forgoten my Infil suit and got SA. There is no longer a reason to cert in the infil suit that balances out the disadvantages, inconviences, and cost.

[1024]

This thread needs a cloaker pros and cons list:

Pros
Invisible
Fastest Running Speed


Cons
Tiny Inventory (understandable)
Scope Bug
DL Bug
Base Benefits make radar visiblity easy
Darklight Popularity
1 Weapon Slot (Pistol)
Most disadvantages out of all armors, but invisibilty is granted, which DL easily screws over


If i forgot any for either categories please feel free to add.

[Jagd]

Well if you don't carry jammers to deal with turrets then I guess you're fucked. Maybe they should just make it so turrets don't react to cloakers. That doesn't mean they don't show up on our radar if they're not crouch walking though, cause that makes you invisible and silent. Get the silent run implant if you need complete stealth.

[1024]

i doubt it would help the infiltrators muhc, but its a start.

Any other ideas?

[Jagd]

Make it so there's a timer on the cloak ability... it draws down the player's stamina. :eek:

Hehe, just kidding.

[Kikinchikin]

hol up lemme get it straight. If i get silent run implant, then can i move through the interlink facility without being fired at by spits and seen on the radar? I just need to know wut extent it would actually help me...

[Doppler]

Revised Pros and Cons list

Originally posted by � � � 4
This thread needs a cloaker pros and cons list:

Pros
Invisible!
Fastest Running Speed


Cons
Tiny Inventory (understandable)
Base Benefits make radar visiblity easy
Darklight Popularity
2 Weapon Slots (Pistol and Knife)


If i forgot any for either categories please feel free to add.

Did i mention that your invisable? First off dont count bugs in your pros and cons otherwise for any infantry man we'd have to list crappy vehicle hit detection in our con list. Secondly the interlink facility alone shouldnt affect infiltrators more then old school motion sensors. Even with the new base benefits (and remember there are a limited number of interlink facilities per continent). But i ramble and we obviously agree to disagree and i'm just gonna let this post die.

[1024]

dont we have to deal with crappy vehicle hit detection also? Almost everything a normal infantry man has to deal, the infiltrator ahs to deal with also, in addition to the bugs that affect only him.

[Madcow]

Well if you don't carry jammers to deal with turrets then I guess you're fucked. Maybe they should just make it so turrets don't react to cloakers. That doesn't mean they don't show up on our radar if they're not crouch walking though, cause that makes you invisible and silent. Get the silent run implant if you need complete stealth.

Invisible and silent unless there is a motion sensor or a spitfire anywhere near you, they've removed the ability to crouch walk past them without detection. If you can't see how that gimps the infil class as a whole then I'm dumbfounded. Jammer grenades would be a great idea except for the incredibly limited inventory that we use. I have a single jammer in about half of my loadouts, more just kind of cripples your usefulness. The limited inventory isn't crippling when you can crouch walk past these things, suddenly we're supposed to carry more items using the same inventory space? Is it even possible for you to look at this from the infil perspective?

[Madcow]

Did i mention that your invisable? First off dont count bugs in your pros and cons otherwise for any infantry man we'd have to list crappy vehicle hit detection in our con list. Secondly the interlink facility alone shouldnt affect infiltrators more then old school motion sensors. Even with the new base benefits (and remember there are a limited number of interlink facilities per continent). But i ramble and we obviously agree to disagree and i'm just gonna let this post die.

Old school motion sensors could be bypassed by crouch walking. Now if the enemy has the interlink benefit motion sensors and spitfires detect you even if you are stationary, and spitfires tear you up. How is this remotely similar to old school motion sensors? For somebody who says they play an infil I'm amazed that you are fine with what they've done to the class.

[Queensidecastle]

The motion sensors, spitfires and interlink benifits have made an Infi running around as easy to detect as if you were plunking around in a MAX suit. Basically Interlink = no cloaking and that is just not fair to anyone who plays an infiltrator. That would be like having a Base benifit = no vehicles or = no Reinforced armor or = No MAX suits

[Doppler]

Old school motion sensors could be bypassed by crouch walking. Now if the enemy has the interlink benefit motion sensors and spitfires detect you even if you are stationary, and spitfires tear you up. How is this remotely similar to old school motion sensors? For somebody who says they play an infil I'm amazed that you are fine with what they've done to the class.

I said alone, as in if they have an interlink facility but no mortion sensors are present then you can go undetected by crouch walking. Prepare to be amazed, then my friend while i continue to bring up some other points for your enjoyment, a two cert point suit does not constitute a "class" were not talking about another MMORPG where you'd be a fighter or a wizard or a priest and suddenly you walk into one type of castle and you can no longer heal, were talking one arrow in your proverbial quuiver, if the enemy has interlink consider switching to one of the 18 points worth of other certs a br 20 whould have or one of the 3 points worth of certs a starting character whould have. Or consider that maybe just maybe you might have to sacrafice some inventory space, or find another way to get around the base..

[Queensidecastle]

Rofl I dont even know how to respond to that. Infiltration as a style of combat is anything but 2 certs. No one that expects to be effective at infiltration is lacking its support certs. Lets add it up shall we?

Suit - 2
Hacking - 3
Advanced Hacking - 2
Engineering - 3
Combat Engineering - 2
Mosquito(or other vehicle) - 3
Medical - 3
Advanced Medical - 2

Total = BR 17 worth of Certs.

Infiltration is not something you cert in just for the hell of it. It is difficult as hell to pull off proper hacks and sabotage and you need many support certs to aid you. The interlink facility benefit totally ruins all that effort and unless you can keep the Gen down, you might as well start up another character for pure grunt certs(Many people have)

[Madcow]

I said alone, as in if they have an interlink facility but no mortion sensors are present then you can go undetected by crouch walking. Prepare to be amazed, then my friend while i continue to bring up some other points for your enjoyment, a two cert point suit does not constitute a "class" were not talking about another MMORPG where you'd be a fighter or a wizard or a priest and suddenly you walk into one type of castle and you can no longer heal, were talking one arrow in your proverbial quuiver, if the enemy has interlink consider switching to one of the 18 points worth of other certs a br 20 whould have or one of the 3 points worth of certs a starting character whould have. Or consider that maybe just maybe you might have to sacrafice some inventory space, or find another way to get around the base..

I do consider it a class. I have a character fully dedicated to being infil, as I've mentioned before. I could drop certs and re-do him, but I already had an equal level grunt who didn't have any infil skills for that. I literally created a character exclusively to play as a cloaker, and gave him equal time with my grunt character. Basically, while I would have been much better off devoting all of my time to a single character (with the benefit of hindsight) I opted to create two very different characters who would excel in two very different ways. Now one of them I don't even bother to log on any more. So I have news for you. You aren't a cloaker. Having the cert, but not playing with the infil suit at least the majority of the time doesn't make you a cloaker. There are a whole lot of people who are in the same boat I ended up in. They fashioned themselves to excel almost exclusively in the infil suit. You aren't one of those people, so there's no way you'd truly understand what they did to the class. They nerfed something that already wasn't overpowered. If it was your favorite weapon there would be no end to the tears. Because it's something you consider disposable, it means little to you. C'est la vie.

[FireZ]

2 weapon slots as a cloak.....no....I wouldn't be opposed to having a secondary "rek" mode on the amp though.....give you the req and the gun all at the same time and takes away that annoying extra second or so i takes to hit "I" and "rightclick" and hit "I" again ;).

[Cyskoraeban]

I think there should be REK holster (just for inf's of course). Can't put ANYTHING else in it. I played a cloaker as my main for the first three months I played this game, and I think infiltrators need more lovin' than anything else right now...

[Doppler]

Whatever helps you feel persecuted man if you want to pull a "You dont agree with me so you cant be a real cloaker" thats fine go ahead doesnt bother me at all.

[EnorganiK]

Infiltrator Get pns ndabut with the interlink...

[Madcow]

Whatever helps you feel persecuted man if you want to pull a "You dont agree with me so you cant be a real cloaker" thats fine go ahead doesnt bother me at all.

I'd rather you made your first valid point of the conversation, but if you'd like to just drop it that works too.

[Doppler]

You dont like JagD who i know runs a cloaker extensively and you dont like me, both because we see this as a setback not a whole end of the world scenario, get a grip my friend.

[Queensidecastle]

Removing cloaking from the game for a class of certs that have no armor and depend on stealth because of a poorly thought out Base benefit isnt a setback, its bullshit.

Cloaking should ALWAYS be undetectable to anyone not using AudioAmp or Darklight. Those implants were put in the game as countermeasures to Cloaking. The point of the Interlink Base benefit was to show REGULAR TROOPS on radar in the SOI, not destroy any possibility of cloaking as a form of combat. The Devs were so hasty to get out the base benefits that they didnt bother to properly balance or test this situation.

[TheAngelOfWar]

lets play nice :-)


Now, I havent played in over a month, but my problem with inventory swapping was that 50% of the time, lag would cause problems. The item in the slot would go to the inventory as normal, but the item coming from the inventory would fall on the ground. THAT does not help in a tight situation.

[Madcow]

You dont like JagD who i know runs a cloaker extensively and you dont like me, both because we see this as a setback not a whole end of the world scenario, get a grip my friend.

I don't like JagD and I don't like you? I don't even know either of you, I don't like or dislike either. It's an odd concept, but I don't get emotionally attached to people on a message board. But let's look at what you said shall we?

"You don't like JagD who i know runs a cloaker extensively"

Actually, JagD stated before that he tried cloaking for 2 weeks and gave it up because it didn't fit his play style. Feel free to go ahead and visit this thread:
http://planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14584&page=2&pp=15
to see pictures of his favorite loadouts. If he's got infil armor on with those loadouts you might want to go ahead and /report him for cheating.

So do I think that Jagd (who tried infil for two weeks before these base benefits took effect) or yourself (who puts on an infil suit on occasion for kicks) are the people that should be listened to in this scenario? Or do I think that myself and others who have characters dedicated to using the infil suit might have slightly more valuable info? Hmm, I wonder.

[PLaYbOrk]

FIrst off I am a hacker and a I have been an inful as well but I dunno unlike you people it takes me a spit second to switch between my REK and magscatter.
1) open inv, right click on REK
2)press tab aim hack and start
3)press tab keep arrow over mag scatter
4) if jumped right click mag scatter press tab and kill

[Jagd]

I don't like JagD and I don't like you? I don't even know either of you, I don't like or dislike either. It's an odd concept, but I don't get emotionally attached to people on a message board. But let's look at what you said shall we?

"You don't like JagD who i know runs a cloaker extensively"

blah blah blah

:huh: Wow, I feel so special, you're talking about me.

The only problem with your scenario of only asking for infiltraitor's feedback is that in case you haven't noticed, everyone seems to think that their empire/cert/whatever is unbalanced and needs a buff, and that everything else that they don't/won't/can't use is unbalanced and needs a nerf. Witness the lasher, striker, pounder, prowler, beamer, guass rifle, and every other god damn piece of gear in the game that has been hashed and rehashed and griped about on these and other forums since before the game was launched.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again-- for 2 cert points you should be damn happy with being invisible. Advanced medical costs 2 and all it does is lets you revive a dead guy once every blue moon.

[Madcow]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again-- for 2 cert points you should be damn happy with being invisible. Advanced medical costs 2 and all it does is lets you revive a dead guy once every blue moon.

Your input might be valuable if you bothered to read what other people write, but since you don't it's really not. Cloakers suffer more bugs than any other class, some of which render the invisibility nil. If for 2 cert points it was a worthwhile class, chances are pretty good you would have kept the certification instead of dumping it after 2 weeks. We're also talking about something common pool here, which is seeing a drop in every single empire. This isn't the same as bitching about nerfs being needed on an empire specific weapon. Do you honestly think that the comparison was valid?
In regards to the advanced med comment, I agree that it needs buffing as well. It actually has received one nice buff from the devs so at least it's on their radar. I wouldn't mind seeing your body stay in place while you are selecting your spawn point and during that entire countdown, rather than disappearing immediately when you elect to spawn. Seems an easy enough fix, and gives advanced medics in the area the chance to get to you and res you before you spawn.

[Queensidecastle]

I think you missed about half of the thread. "Infiltration" isnt just 2 certs, it is about BR 15-17 worth of Certs. The suit is worth 2 points but I would like to know what you think you are going to do with that having no support certs to back it up. Also Infils arent and never have been invisible since you can clearly see them when they are moving. Add to that 2 implants made to counter Infiltrators and the picture starts to look very different indeed.

Finally, are you missing out on the fact that Infiltrators crouch walking while cloaked are as visible as any other unit when there is an Interlink facility? and you think that is ok? Motion detectors in the SoI show cloaked infils that arent even moving. Hello, motion detectors detecting motionLESS cloaked individuals? Its just ridiculous is what it is

[Jagd]

Ok gripe on then, but so far nobody has explained why being invisible should make you ethereal as well; radar bounces off objects whether they're glass or solid or what have you.

Well anyways, I hope the devs give you what you want so you can stop feeling so sorry for yourselves. ;)

[1024]

I'd liek to point a out a very pointy point.

MOTION Detectors. MOTION

How would that detect a still cloaker?

And it is a fact taht infiltrators have it off the worst(in terms of bugs/imbalances).

[Jagd]

I really want to let this go, but as I am sure you would agree 1024, it is very hard to let the other side have the last word, especially when they keep bringing up your points...

Motion detectors have always been an extension of the radar system. Their name is, however, somewhat misleading as I have yet to set off a spitfire/motion sensor trap and been able to have them shut themselves off by simply standing still. So you're right, the name "motion sensor" implies that it senses motion when in fact they have never really done just that, and have always acted as an extension to the base/tower radar networks. To me, this means they are de facto radar beacons, and it's a fact that this affects all players and not just the poor, downtrodden spandex crowd.

'Nuff said? I doubt it.

[Madcow]

You're right, it isn't 'nuff said. The reason for that is pretty simple. You're wrong.

Whether you wear infil suit, standard, agile, reinforced, anything you were always able to either crouch walk or hold shift and walk past/around/up to spitfires or motion sensors without them once noticing you. It was not always a 'de facto' radar beacon, although I appreciate you spicing up your post to make it sound a bit more thought out. Before the interlink benefit if you set off a spitfire you could go completely still and survive even with the infil suit on. It was far easier with any sort of armor. I did it many times. Why don't you try it now against an empire without the interlink facility benefit? Maybe you'll learn something new. Sure, it won't be as fun as being sarcastic without any facts to back up your argument but you'll get by.

[SandTrout]

Motion detectors have always been an extension of the radar system. Their name is, however, somewhat misleading as I have yet to set off a spitfire/motion sensor trap and been able to have them shut themselves off by simply standing still. So you're right, the name "motion sensor" implies that it senses motion when in fact they have never really done just that, and have always acted as an extension to the base/tower radar networks.

I would like to point out several flaws in your logic, Jagd.

A) It is not a "radar" network, that name is, how did you put it? Oh yeah, missleading. It is a sensor network that people commonly misname a "radar" network. It doesn't matter what you consider it, the motion sensor is not a fucking piece of radar equipment. It is just what it's name says "Motion-Detector" as in it "detects motion".

B) Before the interlink benifit, motion sensors ALWAYS removed you from enemy radar as soon as you stopped moveing. It is true that spitfires did not automaticly stop fireing, but that is more like a delayed reaction effect that is programed into them(same as if you shoot them).

C) What the hell is a radar pulse going to bounce off of from an infiltrator? You couldn't say its clothing because there is not necisaraly any large amount of metal or glass(think plastic). His weapon? Not realy because how would you distinguish between the metal of the pistol and the random bullets, shells, and natural metals found in the ground.

D) Yes, it does affect more than just in the infiltrator, but stop deludeing yourself. The infiltrator is prety much 100% dependant on his ability to remain UN-FUCKING-DETECTED to get anything accomplished. There is [b]no[b] other type of player that relies on this as heavily as the infiltrator.

Sorry to rant, but that was an amazeingly stupid and hypocritical(sp?) post JagD

[Doppler]

I think you missed about half of the thread. "Infiltration" isnt just 2 certs, it is about BR 15-17 worth of Certs. The suit is worth 2 points but I would like to know what you think you are going to do with that having no support certs to back it up. Also Infils arent and never have been invisible since you can clearly see them when they are moving. Add to that 2 implants made to counter Infiltrators and the picture starts to look very different indeed.

Finally, are you missing out on the fact that Infiltrators crouch walking while cloaked are as visible as any other unit when there is an Interlink facility? and you think that is ok? Motion detectors in the SoI show cloaked infils that arent even moving. Hello, motion detectors detecting motionLESS cloaked individuals? Its just ridiculous is what it is

I meant to hit on this earlier but never got around to it. Being an infiltrator designed just to kill people requires only those 2 cert points, everything else is completely up to your style of play. About the only requirement for infiltrators (and this is debatable) is advanced hacking so you can do those sneak in and resecures. If you want to be a infiltrator that kills people those two cert points are all you need.
Enjoy your AMP gun, enjoy your gernades, enjoy your knife.

[Madcow]

I meant to hit on this earlier but never got around to it. Being an infiltrator designed just to kill people requires only those 2 cert points, everything else is completely up to your style of play. About the only requirement for infiltrators (and this is debatable) is advanced hacking so you can do those sneak in and resecures. If you want to be a infiltrator that kills people those two cert points are all you need.
Enjoy your AMP gun, enjoy your gernades, enjoy your knife.

Bad point. In order to be a grunt it requires 0 cert points. Anything else is completely up to your style of play.

Next?

[Jagd]

Sandtrout you're right, that was a little over the top. Madcow you're a fucking idiot dude, sorry to break it to you like this.

[Doppler]

Bad point. In order to be a grunt it requires 0 cert points. Anything else is completely up to your style of play.

Next?

Yes but then i whouldnt be invisable now whould I?

[Happy lil Elf]

I'd be all for a slot that has a dedicated REK in it maybe. Or a cert that acts like a REK and lets you hack just long enough off of a full stamina bar to hack/rehack a base on a full bar of stamina with a margin of maybe 10% stamina to help prevent lag etc from making you get to 95% of a hack and then sputter out.

I don't think infiltrators should get an extra slot for all use though. Throw a grenade then quick change and unload with a pistol would be kinda unfair imo.

[Madcow]

Sandtrout you're right, that was a little over the top. Madcow you're a fucking idiot dude, sorry to break it to you like this.

That's funny, for some reason I thought the person who has been proven wrong repeatedly would be the idiot. I guess you just never know.

[Madcow]

Yes but then i whouldnt be invisable now whould I?

No, but then you'd have armor on wouldn't you?

It's a simple point. You say that 2 certs is all an infiltrator needs, and anything else is up to player choice. I say 0 certs is what a grunt needs and it's up to player choice after that if that's the case. You made a bad point and I called you on it, you and Jagd should be getting used to that by now in this thread.

[DramaticFanatic]

I think everything is fine the way it is. (Yes I have played Infil)

[Doppler]

No, but then you'd have armor on wouldn't you?

It's a simple point. You say that 2 certs is all an infiltrator needs, and anything else is up to player choice. I say 0 certs is what a grunt needs and it's up to player choice after that if that's the case. You made a bad point and I called you on it, you and Jagd should be getting used to that by now in this thread.

To paraphrase JMS:

"How convenient, arrogance and ignorance in one tidy little package"

You try to make the argument is that infiltration is a way of life requiring an enormous ammount of certs to be effective. I am trying to make a point that to be combat effective, an infiltrator needs no cert points. The benefit of stealth coutns for a lot, but you spend so much time downplaying it it's a wonder you play an infiltrator at all. I will not deny the boons in having other certs because the more variety you bring to the battlefield the better. However since this will be my final post on the topic because theres a general prohibition against continuing a battle with a opponent who is woefully unequiped for it. By trying to claim circular logic and claiming that everyone who doesnt agree with you cannot grasp the true feel of an infiltrator you are showing how unsportsman like it whould be for me to keep engaging your hunting knife with my abrams.

Finnaly I will state that while the facility link benefits do put infiltrators at a disadvantage it is neither insurmountable nor life changing. Deployables are quickly defeated by jammer gernades which have the benie of knocking out those pesky darklighters. If you choose not to utilize either of these low cost methods then i dont know what to tell you, other then perhaps another carreer choice for the time being might be a good move.

/rant off

[Madcow]

What's funny is that you actually believe you're coming off as intelligent. Damn, where's Elf gone off to? At least he's able to call me on being smarmy and make a good point at the same time. Sweeping metaphors is wonderful rhetoric in junior high to be sure, and it does eliminate the need for pesky facts so I say get on which yo bad self. In the meantime I'll go ahead and point out that 10% of infiltrators have traded in the suit across all empires over the course of the last month. That seems to be just about the time of the last patch. Wow, what a cosmic coincidence...

I'll miss all of your amazing points since that was your last post in the thread, Doppler. Hopefully somebody else will pick up the banner and fight the good fight of showing how stupid I really am.

[Jagd]

In the meantime I'll go ahead and point out that 10% of infiltrators have traded in the suit across all empires over the course of the last month.

Prove it.

[Madcow]

Prove it.

Considering your amazing wit and originality in such mental endeavors as changing people's names (oooooooh, funny!) I'm sure you can work it out on your own. Here, I'll even give you the first step because I'm a nice guy.

http://www.thottbot.com/planetside/

[Jagd]

Hmm, it says infiltration is on the rise by 0.5% for TR and NC, with a 0.3% increase by the Vanu Sovereignty.

http://www.thottbot.com/planetside/2003-10-05/1/

So, basically you're either a pathetic troll who invents statistics to bolster your claims, or are so completely inept at reading numbers that you really oughtn't be allowed on a computer at all.

Get outta town, loser. If you hate being an infiltrator so much, get some new certs and go cry to your mom about the mean kids on the interweb.

[SandTrout]

You try to make the argument is that infiltration is a way of life requiring an enormous ammount of certs to be effective. I am trying to make a point that to be combat effective, an infiltrator needs no cert points. An infiltrator, by nature, is not "combat effective" if he spends five minutes sneaking around to shoot one sniper in the back with an AMP. Yes, he got the kill, and yes he is an infiltrator, but no, he is not combat effective. He killed one, maybe 2 soldiers in the amount of time it can take a soldier with a cycler(equil cert cost, BTW) to get as many as 5-10 reasonably posible kills against people that might actualy acomplish something.

A "combat effective" infiltrator doesn't spend all its time assassinateing people with a pistole, but rather, plays a fire-support role by proforming sabotage and hacks inside the enemy base.

Yes, jammer grenades do disable deployables and darklight, but you can cary a maximum of 5 total grenades and still have room for your REK(never leave home without it.). In combonation that when holding the fire botton to throw you are at 100% of posible visibility(which is practicly glowing), and the throwing range on grenades is fairly low, which means you are likely within the turret's range if the turret is within your range. If you are within the turrets range within an SOI, the turret is shooting you or at you.

Even assumeing that you carry just 3 jammer grenades to disable deployables(it would take about 3 to clear an area around a door that was deployed around), you only have room for 2 other grenades. It takes 2 plasma grenades to kill a non-max soldier, and you are either holding the fire botton shortly and close to or within the grenade's radius, or holding it long, risking being seen and killed.

So, the infil gets maybe 1 kill for all its effort to get into a base before it has to resort to it's knife. You might claim that the knife can be effective in the hands of an infil with melee-booster, but I've spawned at hacked facilities, began a hack on a terminal and been jumped by an infil with meleebooster. He turned on secondary mode and had the jump on my standard-armored self. Unforuneately for him, I pay attention, and as soon as I heard that knife turn on, I canceled the hack and killed him with a suppressor before he could hit with another swing. The knife is not a weapon for an infil that wants to remain alive for more than 1 kill.

To be combat effective, an infiltrator must invest some signifigant amount into a support cert. Just about all infiltrators than make a difference on the battlefield poses adv. Hacking, a total of 5 certs to aquire. The infil can then choose to just be a hacking infiltrator, which is not always effective if there is a MAX with DLV gaurding the CC(which there commonly is), or the infil can choose to be an adv. medic, another 5 certs, in order to revive people on the battlefield. Most people automaticly release anyways, which results in the very low numbers of adv. medics. The infil can also choose the sabateur mode via CE, another 5 cert points to go with Hacking. Math time.

A "combat effective" infiltrator must therefore possess a minimum of 7 cert-points worth of certs, and commonly as many as 12 or even 17.

Then again, our versions of "combat effectiveness" may differ.

[Madcow]

Hmm, it says infiltration is on the rise by 0.5% for TR and NC, with a 0.3% increase by the Vanu Sovereignty.

http://www.thottbot.com/planetside/2003-10-05/1/

So, basically you're either a pathetic troll who invents statistics to bolster your claims, or are so completely inept at reading numbers that you really oughtn't be allowed on a computer at all.

Get outta town, loser. If you hate being an infiltrator so much, get some new certs and go cry to your mom about the mean kids on the interweb.

Jagd, I understand. Math can't be everybody's strong point. See, I said over the course of the last month. Maybe you missed that part. In order to actually figure that out you'd have to scroll back a few weeks and see where it was a month ago, and then figure that against the current numbers. Talking about what happened over the course of a single week doesn't actually tell the whole picture now does it? I will thank you for pointing out they ran new numbers on the 5th, those weren't in the last time I actually looked at the numbers (Monday) so it was news to me that infil actually had a gain for once. At any rate, the percentages this week are an average of 21.43%, last week was an even 21%. From a month ago (22.9%) it has dropped (as of this week) 6.9% since the base benefit and from the numbers I initially ran 8.9% (I never actually ran the numbers when I said 10%, but a drop around 2% when only ~20% of the population actually holds the cert is actually pretty easy to figure out, but I'm sure you knew that). See, here's the other tricky part Jagd. You don't take the number of the overall population to figure out the percentage up and down, you only take the number who had the cert originally and who have the cert now. Get it? Good. Hopefully you'll do okay on that test next week.

[SandTrout]

:stupid: Madcow its right Jagd.

[Jagd]

Ok, listen up meathead. I don't know what kind of fudge factors you are making up to "prove" your point but 22.9% to 21.43% is not 8.9% by anyone's math, it's 1.47% Now of you want to obfuscate things even more and look at it in terms of a percentage of the infiltrator population, let's round the numbers to make it simpler and I'll even round them up in your favour-- 1.5% change divided by 23% that equals the size of infiltrator population shows a 6.5% decline. Not so far off from your 6.9% but bear in mind that I rounded the numbers in your favour, which tells me that you have been lying/exaggerating the entire time.

That being said, don't even let me get started about the (in)significance of statistics, and how they need to be looked at in context. In this case, I would point out that since the interlink patch, we have seen a 2% increase in vehicle certs since they were given shields and functional repair pads. It would appear that people are trading in their cloak suits for vehicles, but unfortunately it is rather difficult to look at a set of numbers and arbitrarily decide what motivated 2000+ Planetside players to get vehicles, and if they are even the same players who got rid of their infiltration suits at all. Even if we could correllate those two groups, the question remains: did they do it because the suit got a small nerf, or because vehicles got a huge buff? Either way, having more than 1 in 5 Planetside players using such a specialized cert still sounds like a significant number to me. Imagine if 2 players out of every squad were infiltrators, it would be more of a liability than a benefit.

So please, I know you think the entire game has been thrown into an upheaval because of interlink benefits, but as you can see the same set of statistics can be used to illustrate (or as you like to claim, prove) a variety of differing and even contradictory anecdotes. From listening to Dallas Dickenson on AGN yesterday it sounds like they are taking note of whiners like you, even though Dallas said the changes hardly affected him at all and he plays primarily as an infiltrator. Good luck again with your quest, and maybe you will meet less resistance with your next half-baked idea if you weren't such an arrogant ass, and presented all of your "proof" in a clear manner right at the start of the discussion. Just FYI, it's standard procedure for someone making a bold claim to back it up themselves, and not demand everyone else go do the research for them.

Have a nice day! ;)

[Madcow]

Ok, listen up meathead. I don't know what kind of fudge factors you are making up to "prove" your point but 22.9% to 21.43% is not 8.9% by anyone's math, it's 1.47% Now of you want to obfuscate things even more and look at it in terms of a percentage of the infiltrator population, let's round the numbers to make it simpler and I'll even round them up in your favour-- 1.5% change divided by 23% that equals the size of infiltrator population shows a 6.5% decline. Not so far off from your 6.9% but bear in mind that I rounded the numbers in your favour, which tells me that you have been lying/exaggerating the entire time.

Wow. Again, I appreciate the 50 cent word thrown in with the rest of your crap to make an attempt to sound intelligent. It's got me fooled, although that's no large feat. Now, let's get to my initial statement. 10% of infiltrators. I'll be happy to eat my words in as much that I never actually ran the numbers and went to the easiest round number I knew was right around the fact. The being said, which part of of infiltrators fooled you? Was it the of? That simple statement means that the 22.9% we're starting with actually is 100%. It's 100% of infiltrators. Tricky, I know. Next, the 8.9% was based on the first number (21%) taken, not the newer number.
I will also admit a flaw in my math. It's freeing admitting when you're wrong, you should try it (although it might prove fairly time consuming for you). I was taking the percentage change and putting it into the newer of the numbers instead of the original. So the numbers should in fact be 6.4% and 8.3%. That makes all the difference, now there's nothing to worry about.

That being said, don't even let me get started about the (in)significance of statistics, and how they need to be looked at in context. In this case, I would point out that since the interlink patch, we have seen a 2% increase in vehicle certs since they were given shields and functional repair pads. It would appear that people are trading in their cloak suits for vehicles, but unfortunately it is rather difficult to look at a set of numbers and arbitrarily decide what motivated 2000+ Planetside players to get vehicles, and if they are even the same players who got rid of their infiltration suits at all. Even if we could correllate those two groups, the question remains: did they do it because the suit got a small nerf, or because vehicles got a huge buff? Either way, having more than 1 in 5 Planetside players using such a specialized cert still sounds like a significant number to me. Imagine if 2 players out of every squad were infiltrators, it would be more of a liability than a benefit.

Clever. Give me proof, then stats don't matter. I think G.W. might have a job opening for you.

So please, I know you think the entire game has been thrown into an upheaval because of interlink benefits, but as you can see the same set of statistics can be used to illustrate (or as you like to claim, prove) a variety of differing and even contradictory anecdotes. From listening to Dallas Dickenson on AGN yesterday it sounds like they are taking note of whiners like you, even though Dallas said the changes hardly affected him at all and he plays primarily as an infiltrator. Good luck again with your quest, and maybe you will meet less resistance with your next half-baked idea if you weren't such an arrogant ass, and presented all of your "proof" in a clear manner right at the start of the discussion. Just FYI, it's standard procedure for someone making a bold claim to back it up themselves, and not demand everyone else go do the research for them.

Have a nice day! ;)

Just so you know, I already provided the numbers in a previous thread. A thread which you read because you did post in it. The fact that your brain couldn't connect the two of them really isn't my concern.

I get your gig, Jagd. You enjoy making dismissive comments and pretending that you understand things better than everybody. It even works sometimes when you post with 14 year olds, which I'm sure is quite the ego boost. You wore an infil suit for 2 weeks and couldn't hack it. Hell, you didn't even know what 2 of the larger bugs in the entire game are because they're exclusively cloaker problems. You're out of your element, and just don't have the facts of this matter. It's no big deal, there's plenty of PS elements I certainly wouldn't know enough about to post.

And I'm having a great day, thanks for the sentiment.

[Jagd]

I did it exactly as you claimed you did, the second part of my explanation in the first paragraph calculated the net decline of infiltration certs in relation to your standard of the "ideal" infiltrator population, which was the stats as of a week before FLB went live. A 1.5% decline out of a total population of 23% (1.5 / 23 = 6.5) is a 6.5% loss of total infiltrators. See how easy it is, and no extra of's either!

Now you go calculate it for vehicles. Then somebody else can do it for heavy assault, and at the end of the day all we have are a whole pile of numbers and lots of biased speculation as to why they work out the way they do.

How about we just agree to disagree about the severity and impact of the "infiltration nerf" by way of facility link benefits? Ahh, that feels nice.

[Madcow]

I did it exactly as you claimed you did, the second part of my explanation in the first paragraph calculated the net decline of infiltration certs in relation to your chosen standard of "ideal" infiltrator population (ie: the stats as of a week before FLB went live). A 1.5% decline out of a total population of 23% (1.5 / 23 = 6.5). See how easy it is?

Yes, you did it just like I said. Right after you said:

I don't know what kind of fudge factors you are making up to "prove" your point but 22.9% to 21.43% is not 8.9% by anyone's math, it's 1.47%

See, the concept seems to be eluding you. You may have missed the part where you subtracted 21.43% from 22.9% to get the 1.47%. That's implying that the numbers have been fudged to magically turn 1.47% into 8.9%. It was a silly statement, to be sure, but are you now telling me you never said it? If you said it but didn't mean anything by it, why did you bother saying it at all?

I agree that vehicles have become more valuable in PS (and will continue to do so after the balance pass). A continual loss of people using the infil certification doesn't cease to be worrisome because of that. If more people are turning in their 2 certs for infil than are turning in other certs (which seems to be supported at first glance, although I'm really not interested enough to run all the numbers) then there needs to be concern on why the infil suit specifically is suddenly less valuable than it was 1 month ago for people. Being a selfish player as most people are, the fact that it doesn't impact your playstyle means you immediately discount it because you'd rather attention was given to things which you personally come across regularly. Myself being a selfish player, it becomes more important to me. Pretty simple.
Your argument about the ups and downs of different certifications really isn't relevant, although you seem to believe it is. There is a specific trend which can be pin-pointed to a specific event which would have triggered that trend. There are parties who have witnessed the reasons first-hand and have posted about it. Why don't you let me know besides hard numbers and first-hand accounts what proof you'd like to see. Maybe I can get the tooth fairy on the witness stand or something.

[Incompetent]

Now, typically i don't like to jump into a thread that makes Hell look like Alaska, but unfortantly i have something to say and it would be to much of a pain in the ass to PM it to everyone.

Quite simply, anything which fights on 2 feet is going to become alot less effective in the very near future. It's not exactly a secret that the balance pass is going to what, double the armor on the vanguard and leave AV damage essentially untouched. The infils got hit early with the Interlink benefits, but everyone who does mainly grunt work is going to become a walking target once the balance pass comes by, so it's not just the infils who will be hurting, it'll be everyone who isn't sitting in a steel coffin. The surface will become a lot less hospitable to infantry. However, CC is going to be effectively the opposite of the surface, in CC Infantry is going to dominate, and I would suspect it will be much better territory for cloakers. Just something to think about when you rant about percentages and other useless garbage. The Devs did not get their jobs because they are stupid, they might have a plan.

[1024]

[this] thread...makes Hell look like Alaska

and i started it. :doh:

[Jagd]

Hey don't feel so bad, I've been arguing for days with a special needs child who can't comprehend simple math equations like 1.5 / 23 = X / 100. :huh:

[Kikinchikin]

Yeah I guess Incompetent is right on that point. Perhaps what I'll do is ditch my pounder if its nerfed too badly to use nemore and get a prowler, and keep my infil stuff. Heck I may have to become a grunt again because of the new weapons :), but I am looking forward to sneaking around a much smaller area as an infiltrator.

[TheN00b]

lol... prowlers :D go ahead, i need more exp

[Kikinchikin]

if u dont know prowler is supposed to be wicked on the test server (what ive heard)

[SandTrout]

1 infantryman will NOT be able to kill a tank anymore unless its an AV max or has his pack filled with AV ammo. I've tried.

[TheN00b]

damn, sucks... :(

[ZionsFire]

WOOT! A New New Word Association Thread!:p

[1024]

?

:confused:

[Madcow]

Jagd, keep acting like you're smart and maybe some people will buy into it. It's worth a try.

[ZionsFire]

?

:confused:

It's got like 1,332 views