The balance pass XP system is not the answer.

[TheRagingGerbil]

The new XP system is in no way better than what we have now. Sure you get more kill XP, which will motivate people to seek-out fights rather than base caps, but that is not the problem plaguing Planetside. The issue with XP surrounds the formation of a squad. At the moment, the only ones who benefit from the XP received while being in a squad are the SL***8217;s and the guys who are away from the battle. The ones doing the actual work are getting hosed; they could be receiving up to ten times as much XP.

Now I always run a squad, and my outfit mates are always there. We don***8217;t bitch and complain about XP because we are usually a few bases back anyways. But the reason I bring this up is there was a serious turn in the way the game was played when the XP system was changed at release. The loss of the Beta XP system destroyed the desire of players to form squads, with that; we saw the formation of the massive zerg.

The XP system at the end of Beta was damn near perfect. If someone got a 100 XP kill, then everyone in the squad got 100 XP. This was a huge drive for people to squad. The sanctuary was always full of galaxy pilots looking for a full squad. Support characters were actually able to advance while doing nothing but support. Defenders would pour out of a base to engage the attacking army on open ground. Bridge, forest, and open plains battles were so commonplace you could find one on any continent. This wasn***8217;t because of vast numbers of player online, it was simply because you didn***8217;t have to Zerg a base to get the much coveted XP.

Furthermore, with the addition of more XP for the defenders this only is going to force a strengthening of the attacking Zerg. Defenders will hole up inside the base because they will be receiving the XP bonus for doing so. Battles over open ground will become even less frequent, and people will complain even more about Zerg armies crushing them.

My suggestion for the XP system would be this:

1) XP per kill is multiplied by the number of squad members, and then divided equally among them all. So if player A kills for 100xp, the players B thru J all receive 100 XP (as in Beta).

2a) Max base capture BEP: 1250
2b) Max base capture CEP: 1250*
*The SL would receive the same amount of experience as the rest of the squad; his would only be turned towards his command rank. This would still give a decent incentive to capture a base, and it would be the only way for a SL to receive command experience.

The numbers I through out above are just my initial thoughts. I feel that XP should be a drive, but unfortunately it is. If the developers were to restore the beta XP system, you would see a massive jump in the desire of people to form squad for purposes other than getting command rank. It***8217;s sad that most squads today consist of only two people. The reason so many want platoons is for this exact reason. They usually have like six guys they play with, and with the use of platoons they can run 3 two-man squads and whore the CEP.

I also see this as a further turn off for new players. So many people from beta got hooked on the game because the moment you stepped out at the sanctuary you got invited to a squad. Regardless of whether you even got a kill or not you were beneficial to the squad. Now, no one wants to invite the new player because he will only hurt the squads***8217; flow of XP. Restoration of the beta XP system would remedy this.

I plead for the developers to try it for a week, prior to releasing the new balance pass XP system. Restore the end beta XP system with the above-mentioned changes to the base cap XP. I can almost guarantee you will see the following changes:

- Full Squads (also more squads)
- More galaxy***8217;s (pilots shouting LFS at sanctuary)
- More outdoors battles
- A rise in the desire to defend a facility
- A dissemination of the massive Zerg

Any thoughts?

~Gerbil

[Madcow]

For the most part I agree with you, although I think giving every member of a squad the max xp is a bit too much. I'd be pleased if you got the full (solo) xp for every kill you made in the squad and all the fellow members of the squad got 25-50% of the amount that the 'killer' receives. That way you certainly want to be in a squad as you aren't losing your xp for a kill and you're actually gaining an additional amount dependent on how effective the other members are. People who are 100% support classes would be valuable, but they also would gain xp a bit slower than everybody else (but not be unable to advance).

[Rightwing]

I'll like it, because I have my Jackhammer, some easy kills = big xp.

:D

[Incompetent]

Agreed on almost all counts, CEP would need tweak, and i think kill experience should be based on both the damage the enemy dealt and his time alive, so spawn camping would yield literally no xp, but a good sized open field battle would yield tons. But overall i'd say your right, unfortantly most people are motivated by XP, and the stupidiest people tend to set the tone for everything.

[Black]

CEP would need tweak

I think it needs a tweak as well maybe double it the way u have it now

[Liquidtide]

Interesting thoughts RG...

I believe experience should be just that, earned for experience. Capping a base takes no experience sometimes. I see may people just sitting around, and I know we've all done it. We see the LLU travelling and we get into the SOI for that xpgold.

I like what Gerbil said about the squad exp. The squadmember who gets the kill should not be penalized. They should get the full exp, say 100xp. Then an equal amount, 100xp would be diseminated throughout the squad divided by the members in it. So you would get your full xp for your kill and a steady trickle of 10-50 xp for everyone elses. Sounds fair! And why does the SL only get CXP for a base cap? Why not for the kills within his squad that they are leading? Just a thought.

I agree base capture xp should be cut in half, rewarding the players who do the dirty work.

~Tide

[Veteran]

Xp grind is for mmorpg games. I have no idea why they loaded a half-baked rpg system onto a combat game. People that stick with the game aren't doing so for the xp reward. In fact, not getting xp after br20 causes some people to quit playing.

A simpler system would grant br20 to anyone upon their 2,000th kill, their 50,000th point of armor/terminal health repaired, or their 500th revival of a fallen soldier (all just quick examples). Capping at br20 could even be dissolved with little adverse effect.

Forcing people to 'specialize' by limiting their number of certs has done nothing to force them to select squad-members based on their certifications. In common practice, people get recruited just to be a warm body in a list of 10.

Experience points? I say let the commanders decide who's experienced enough.

[Queensidecastle]

Good ideas for support XP Veteran. Also good analysis Gerbil. With the new XP changes, you are goign to see loads of Heavy assault Grunt/MAXs that refuse to squad up and loads of support characters begging to get into squads just so they have some way of getting any XP at all. Very flawed system indeed. In EQ they finally had to give grouping bonuses just to get people to form groups. It took them about 3 years to figure that one out. What I cant understand is why it should take another 3 years for these devs to learn the same lesson

[Holgarth]

A few ideas for xp gaining:

1) All members of squad get the same xp for a kill, but the member that made the kill gets an extra 10% bonus, on to of all other bonuses, like the +25% bonus For thosefor killing in friendly SOI. BUT this would only happen in a full squad, making squads a better prospect.

2) The SL should have a xp slide bar that he can set so that they can decide how much of the xp is turned into CR and BR.

3) The SL should also get CR xp for tower taking (cannot be converted to BR xp) on the same bassis as the base xp, i.e. goes up with resistance encountered, though not on the huge scale as base xp, maybe 1/2 of what the balance patch will have.

4) Xp given to those who do a major percentage of damage to a kill, i.e you almost kill an enemy and another player comes in with a pistol and kills the target with one shot, use lose the xp but did most of the work. You/squad should be awarded most of the xp from the kill based on how much damage % you do, I suggest this works after you have done 55%+ of the damage to target within a set time of the kil, if enemy uses a medipack or healed after damage and before kill, it lessens your damage done percentage.

5) The futher away the kill is from a spawn tubes (includes AMS) the more xp points they are worth when killed, may encourage battles and encounters away from bases and towers.

For those at the top of the XP ladder, i.e. BR20/CR5, there should be a added bonus for a set amount of kills once they reach these levels. Something like for every 500 kills (made after they reach BR20 and CR5) they can choose from a special table (like cert points) a weapon, item, or armour that they respawn automaticly with at a base or tower spawn tubes, i.e. they may chose reinforced armour, so when they die and respawn they have reinforced armour on instead of the standard armour normaly, etc. Max armour may be an exception, but then could have it that max armour needs 1000 kills, could also make it that if spawned at unhacked base that they have a vehical waiting for them in the courtyard (if the base links allow that type of vehical) again would need 1000 kills to aquire.

[Incompetent]

Good ideas up until that last part Holgarth, but i have to ask, do you like being spawned camped or something, because everytime someone suggests an "after ___ kills" they are basically saying "Please, don't think tactically about the benefits of blowing up enemy spawn points, just get a MAX unit and camp them, constantly, every chance possible."

[Black]

just get a MAX unit and camp them"


That would probably be me (damn it i hate being new in the dragonwolves outfit im always the Sacrifice *cries*)

[bryan25]

you got a point

[Happy lil Elf]

I like the ideas for the past BR 20 you can choose a piece of equipment to spawn with. Basing it on some random number of kills doesn't make a whole lot of sense imo though. But once people started spawning in reinforced with a Deci in one slot and a HA in the other you'd see people start to actually take out the tubes asap instead of camping them like morons until the enemy starts spawning there fully equipped causing the room and hack to be lost.

[noxious]

For the most part I agree with you, although I think giving every member of a squad the max xp is a bit too much. I'd be pleased if you got the full (solo) xp for every kill you made in the squad and all the fellow members of the squad got 25-50% of the amount that the 'killer' receives. That way you certainly want to be in a squad as you aren't losing your xp for a kill and you're actually gaining an additional amount dependent on how effective the other members are. People who are 100% support classes would be valuable, but they also would gain xp a bit slower than everybody else (but not be unable to advance).

I like this system infinitely better than the beta system. The reason they took away the beta system in the first place was to slow the down how much exp you recieve. The problem was they nerfed the squad too much and it becomes far more resoruceful to go solo or work in pairs. MadCow's system would solve the problem of no one wanting to work in squads, and stay true to the devs desire to slow down the leveling process.

As for the original post, I majorly disagree with the max cep being only 1250 per cap. The 4 to 5 jump would take 240 max exp caps. While running full squads I have only recieved 5k on two occassions (though while running two man squads I recieve 3k all the time). The problem here is that if 1250 is the max cep, one can assume smaller squads would not have a less maximum cep, since it's already so low. So we still have the problem of people wanting to pair up.

Another problem I see, this is with the new exp system that Sony is releasing, is that it if successful in taking the fighting out of the SOI, it will be harder to get CEP because the squad isn't going to want to stay for the nerfed cap exp when they can go get kill exp elsewhere. Oh well, I'll be 20/5 in a week or so and none of this will matter any more.