My Personal Crusade

[SandTrout]

As many of you may have noticed, I am severly against certain parts of the ILF radar, namely showing up on radar if I am within a motion sensor/spitfire's detection radius, no matter what speed I'm moveing.

In the time since the End of Infs(as I call the patch), I have forgoten several certs associated with infiltrating, primaraly the infiltrateing suit, in exchange for more combat-related certs.

I did enjoy my days an in infil a tremendos amount, more than I enjoy being a grunt now, but the ILF has removed any reasonable viability of keeping the cert.

I've now dedicated myself to geting some part of the ILF ajusted to that it would be possible for me to convert my character back into what it used to be, a stealther dedicated to sabotage.

I am now posting regularly on the OF *shudder* to raley support from others to pester, bitch at, and threaten the devs until infiltrating becomes feasable once again. (Hell, it worked to the striker, pounder, and JH nerfs, and the prowler buffs.)

This is my self-set objective that I feal is worth the effort. I would like support from members of the PSU comunity that agree that ILFs must be ajusted.

The reasons for my distaste of the ILF can be found here (http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum8/HTML/022657-3.html).

Side note: Why do I always write my best stuff at 2 in the morning?

[DramaticFanatic]

I agree that the ILF radar is overpowered against infiltrators, but that doesn't stop me from infiltrating.

[Holgarth]

It was my 2nd time out in a stealth suite when I came across this pain of a ILF, I was crouched and had just moved to within site of a base main entrance and stopped to watch where a enemy was laying some mines. He then set up a spitfire and stright away it targeted me and opened fire and quickly died, now i was stopped and crouched (yes I was stealthed) so thought ok a bug then, but it happened 3 times around that base and 2 other bases.

I managed to get into a base that had no ILF link at the time and hid crouched in a corner for ambush near the CC room, then they got a base that gave them ILF and stright away 3 enemy converged on me and killed me, I had not moved and was crouch as well as stealthed. How can we do our job if we can't even get near a base let alone inside one.

I dropped the stealth cert after this, tho kept in on my alt char for core combat caveren fighting.

[SandTrout]

Hm, if CC is the only place without the ILF, then Infils will kind of be exiled there, unless the ILF is fixed(as in neutered). I'm almost starting to feal like a ***(historical reference). No one want's around, so I have to find somewhere else to try to make a liveing.

[Veteran]

Good luck in your crusade, stealther. As I have said, between exploits, cheats and design flaws, the infiltrator is expected to do mission: impossible with assets: inadequate. Anything that increases the viability of this class would be welcomed. Between Darklight, motion sensors, Audio Amp. and the naturally visibility of moving stealthers, people would have to be answering the phone or guzzling a redbull & vodka to not detect an them. I'll even stretch it to include a short rifle slot for infils (that would accomodate Thumper, Rocklet, assault rifles, nanodispensor, but not Striker, Decimator, Jackhammer, etc.). If someone wants to sneak around with a nanodispensor healing turrets, more power to them.

[Incompetent]

Yeah, lets give infils Flechette rifles Vet, that is going to add alot of fun to the game. :rolleyes:

Trout, honestly I don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be, yeah, the ILF radar can be hard on cloakers, but there aren't exactly alot of Interlink facilities around, and it probably wouldn't be to hard to sneak into one and nuke the gens even if they have one (assuming the fighting isn't at that base.) Not every character class is always useful, just ask a pilot about Ceryshen's flight ceiling, or your average grunt how usefull he feels after he gets strafed by some Reaver. Just because you have to pack up your infil and grunt for a bit every once and a while doesn't mean it's horribly gimped.

Meh, i guess when it all comes down to it I don't hear Cyrusorde (infiltrator in my outfit, he is essentially my parter) bitching about it, so I don't really care that much. Then again I may be biased, I can't stand the little fucks that sneak around boomering spawn rooms and welcome any safety i can get from them.

[ZeusCali]

okay i still dont grasp this completely the interlink facilities do what? and did they finnally fix the Engineer's radar things so they can actually show some one on radar or do they actually show you in visual
if thats the case just keeps ur eyes open we have to do it to kill you so know you have to do it for them not to kill you just take out ur AMP? isnt that the fast little pistol and shot the motion sensor then you can get past easy or as usual atleast problem solved
you make it sound like theres a huge radar tower that covers the whole continent and it makes you visable

[STEALTHKILLER]

I agree that the ILF radar is overpowered against infiltrators, but that doesn't stop me from infiltrating.

I feel the same way.

[Doppler]

Sand I continue to feel that this is not as big of a problem as you make it out to be, but I am willing to meet you half way, because I will concede that my own strategy when faced with interlinked bases is to either avoid those bases or run around with the troops in stealth medic mode, not exactly a fullfilling career.

Whould you accept a buff to Silent run in leu of a nerf on the interlink facilities? Silent run whould now coupled with your cloak suit render you completely undetectable, in fact personaly I whould like to see silent run make a still (as in, not moving not hacking not anything, perhaps crouched too) infiltrator immune to darklight. THe problem with that is it whould make it impossible to guarantee areas are cloaker free so you can move on other then giving every tower a quick plasma grenade wash.

[Liquidtide]

It really really sucks when you are stealthing, and walking/crouching and all some NOOB has to do it look at the radar and shoot the red dots, I don't want to give up infiltrating, especially for those times they don't have the ILF, but it is making it harder to next to impossible when the enemy has the ILF.

~Tide

[DramaticFanatic]

Well, when you are stealthing, you shouldn't wander close to those linked bases and get shot by some 'NOOB'.

[Veteran]

What other class has to avoid an entire base because of an imbalance?

[Nitsch]

With most game challenges there is a way to counteract it. If i see a spitfire, mine or motion sensor in the distance, i either throw a jammer or just avoid them all together. If i see a skeeter coming by, i stop moving so he doesn't uncover me. If i see someone with darklight on... I run like hell and do crazy ivans.

But with the Interlink thing, there is nothing i can do about it. No skill, no strategy can overcome it.

[Veteran]

I was under the impression that Overflight Radar spotted stealthers whether they are moving or not.

[Nitsch]

I was under the impression that Overflight Radar spotted stealthers whether they are moving or not.

If you are talking about skeeters, you have to be moving for them to see you and they have to be facing you.

So if you see a slow moving skeeter around. Stand still till it's gone.

[Veteran]

Well, what made me comment was the perfectly immobile stealther I am referring to whose name was hovering over his head while I figured out that Overflight Radar was giving him away.

I guess it could be a bug, but I'm definitely not mistaken. It would take a lot of explaining to make me forget the clear image in my mind of the helpless stealthers I've seen with their name over their heads while they crouched in vain.

Dunno tho. I haven't been a stealther in a while, but I steadfastly support a buff to the class.

[Nitsch]

What you are seeing is a stealther that got uncovered via skeeter or motion sensor. If you are an inf and you get uncovered by a skeeter, all you can do is stop moving until that damn radar icon goes away.

[SandTrout]

A note about the jammer counter to spitfires/motion sensors:

The durration of the jammer effect is quite short, so you either have to use multipule jammer nades(drain on inventorty), or be forced to run past once the deployable is jammed, which makes you show up on radar(ILF is not affected by the Jammer).

There may not be all THAT many ILFs laying around, but considering that the Infil is generaly an offensive unit, there is a very good chance that the enemy has an ILF.

I do not think that makeing silent run a radar jammer is the solution either. I should not have to use an implant that drains endurance to get any effectiveness out of my certification.

Prior to ILF, no sensor detected non-moveing/slowly moveing infantry(be it a reinforced or stealth), and even these we're decently able to be destroyed(skeeter shot down, deployables destroyed by 1 direct HE grenade.)

The ILF requires you to get deep inside the base and disable it by hacking the base or blowing the gen, which is nearly imposible for an infil if there was a competent CE in the area.

Try infiltrateing with the infil suit now. Seriously, it is imposible if a CE put just 1 spitfire at each entrance, and they can put motion sensors inside and one n00b can go to the red dot and kill you.

I know it may not be as big of an issue for everyone, but there is a decently sized community of disgruntled infs out there, and the devs have flat-out ignored this player-base in the balance pass, and havn't even bothered to respond to our posts.

I also know that in inf is not good for every situation. You're not likely going to infiltrate base with a 2-sided zerg going on, you'll likely get killed in the crossfire or run across some guy thats sweeping with DLV. That part has been in effect since release.

Now, however, you cannot infiltrate a base with ILF, and this is the only facility benifit with this much effect on a playstyle. A bio lab helps defenders spawn quicker, but you can still kill them. An AMP station helps increase your lifespan with a shield, but you can still kill the vehicle, it just takes a little longer.

t\Te ILF should make infiltrateing my difficult by showing you when moveing faster than walking/crouching speed, but with deployables, it doesnt matter what speed you're moveing, you are dead.

I'm not calling for a full removal of the ILF benifit, just removal of the aspect that causes deployables to detect non-moveing infantry. Is it realy too much to ask that infiltrators need only be pacient(allowing for greater chance of geting swept by DLV) to infiltrate?

[Nitsch]

I have a bigger problem with the interlink showing me as a red dot on the radar, even though i am crouch walking.

Deployables are something i can overcome and do something about.

[Veteran]

This thread makes me realize how many times simply outmaneuvering the base defenders has allowed me to make my way to the unguarded CC wearing Agile armor. I think a lot of the time stealthers don't even need to be invisible to get their agenda accomplished. This stated, I think when invisibility is essential, stealthers should be able to rely on it.

Ways to detect a stealther:

1: Anticipation: you know they're out there, and you fire your splash weapons at the CC preemptively
2: Visual accuity: you can easily spot the distortion caused by the stealth effect, or they shine like a lightbulb through your scope
3: You bind Darklight to your mousewheel and flick it on for a fraction of a second on a routine basis
4: You leave Audio on almost 100% of the time, and always use it when in a vehicle because your stamina is irrelevant while you're mounted
5: You exploit by <SORRY CAN'T SAY IT ON THESE LEGITIMATE FORUMS> so it's pretty much like they're totally visible anyway
6: You put down motion sensors/mines/spitfires to be your eyes and ears while you fight
7: You monitor Overflight Radar, or pilot a Mosquito quite often
8: You watch for the glowing red beam that comes out of the stealther's ubiquitous REK
9: You watch your friends get shot by a stealther and attack the general area of the attack
10: You watch doors open and close and let nature take its course

Actually, the last item on that list gave me an idea... How about crawlspaces that don't rely on doors? It's really quite easy to notice an open door and put two and two together.

Anyhow, I'll sum it up by asking a couple simple questions... When's the last time you heard "LFSM, stealthers especially" or "we really need a stealther for this mission!"? Rarely, I'll wager. There's just not enough to do that a couple guys in Agile can't take care of with brute force, especially if they're Heavy Assault.

Other than saying, "if the glove doesn't fit, you must aquit!" I don't think I can sum up my case in any more words. I know it sounds weird, but I'd actually like to be troubled by infiltrators messing up my plans. It would make me play harder and think more unconventionally. As it is now, I can discount the value of stealthers and go unpunished.

edit: I am 100% for building Silent Run into the Infiltration Suit

[SandTrout]

I have a bigger problem with the interlink showing me as a red dot on the radar, even though i am crouch walking.

Deployables are something i can overcome and do something about.
The deployables are what cause this, primaraly motion sensors that penetrate walls.

[Queensidecastle]

The developers realize that the Interlink has screwed infiltrators and will be fixing it

[Madcow]

Fairly telling poll.

[Nitsch]

The deployables are what cause this, primaraly motion sensors that penetrate walls.

Deployable motion sensors make your name turn red to enemies... basicly decloaking you.

Just walking around a interlinked base makes you show up on the radar as a red dot... eventhough you are cloaked. It's like giving all defenders an audio implant on steroids for free.

[Queensidecastle]

However if you are connected to an Interlink on the Latice the deployables at your base are enhanced. Motion detectors inside the base walls can make infils into red dots that are on the outside of the base wall. Spitfires can see and kill you no matter how you are moving or even not moving at all and have extended range. Basically Interlinks make Infils into no rifle slot grunts that have 0 armor

[STEALTHKILLER]

5: You exploit by <SORRY CAN'T SAY IT ON THESE LEGITIMATE FORUMS> so it's pretty much like they're totally visible anyway

I know which one your talking about and that makes you a evil evil man. You should die by the wrath of the ninja monkeys hahahahahaha.


*srry for going physcoatic*sp* right there.*

[Veteran]

I know about the exploits, but I'd rather eat a steaming pile of vegemite than use one. Just pointing it out as yet another strike against infiltrators.

[DramaticFanatic]

I know about the exploits, but I'd rather eat a steaming pile of vegemite than use one. Just pointing it out as yet another strike against infiltrators.

Prove it. :D

[STEALTHKILLER]

Prove it. :D

I think i have some thats been between my toes for a week that he can eat.

[SandTrout]

So I have a lot of your support it seems. Thanks for asureing me that I am not a vocal minority.

[TheRagingGerbil]

I love crouch walking only to have a CE drop a Spitty right infront of me then proceed to get pwned while helplessly sitting there.

[Jagd]

Personally, I think it's part of the game's tactics now-- cap that interlink to stop annoying cloakers from creeping around blowing gens while hiding back away from the main fight. It is a part of the game, just as getting the dropship centre is now 3 times as important what with the repair pads.

[STEALTHKILLER]

Cloackers don't hode back in the main action. They will not get as many kills or stuff, but they are there. there the people you plant the boomer right at the door and wait for it to open.

[Nitsch]

Personally, I think it's part of the game's tactics now-- cap that interlink to stop annoying cloakers from creeping around blowing gens while hiding back away from the main fight. It is a part of the game, just as getting the dropship centre is now 3 times as important what with the repair pads.
Maybe we should have a base whose function is to shoot at maxes whenever they walk by... Making max suits unviable.

Why have a base that invalidates a cert?

[Queensidecastle]

Or maybe we could have a base benifit with a kind of EMP field inside the SoI and to linked bases that causes all heavy assault weapons to fire wildly and sometimes unintentionally, thusly becoming totally unreliable and unviable as a cert

[SandTrout]

Maybe we should have a base whose function is to shoot at maxes whenever they walk by... Making max suits unviable.

Why have a base that invalidates a cert? :stupid: You're arguement, JagD, is that you don't want to have to deal with infil suits any more. Well, we infil suits absolutely hate haveing to deal with MAXes(or intelegent ones at least.)