Uber-Flail

[keaoi]

It needs a HUGE nerf. The thing is completely unbalanced. Everything I list, I saw with my own eyes.

It can...

- Camp air towers VERY effectively.
- Deploy outside a doorway, greeting players with a insta-kill suprise.
- Sit on a hill (sloping down), and spam a base.
- (This one REALLY F'ING PISSED ME OFF) Fire from JUST outside a warpgate, then after taking damage simply go back in and repair. This wouldnt be a problem if the damn thing wasnt just as strong as a GAL. :confused:

There are several actions I feel would be most appropriate.

- Stop the ability to repair ANYTHING within the SOI of a warpgate.
- Lower the armor of the Flail to something more like a Lightning (or less).
- Disable its ability to deploy within a enemy SOI.
- Force its deployment location to have the same requirements and landing an aircraft (VERY flat).
- Drasticly slow its aim rate while increasing its accuracy slightly. Artillery is precision equipment, and as such should require precision (slow) aiming.

This would the put the Flail back where it belongs. Which is anywhere but where it is now. The Front Lines.

[Aen]

I agree that it is overpowered. Mostly in the fact that the armor on the thing is crazy strong. A friend and I were scouting in our reavers and spotted one sitting outside the NC WG on Hossin. So we fly all the way around to take full advantage of its blind spot. My friend takes point and unloads a full load of reaver rockets on it then trys to blast off, nailed. So while he was distracted I followed and unloaded my full clip on it and thrusted off, only to notice it had around 60% armor left (Adv. Targeting)!! Thats hella crazy. Not too mention that it can turn faster than it should as well. As Keaoi said, its a precision weapon, and right now its a doom cannon from hell.

[Flammey]

A few things you should know before you judge it. One, it is slow to aim, moving about as fast as a turret. Two, it takes a good 5 seconds to deploy, or undeploy. Three, it can not fire undeployed, so on the move, it is extremely vulnerable to vehicles that can move as fast as it can, or faster. Four, and the most important, everyone can use it, so there is no one side that is stronger than the other. and five, it is Artillery. It is supposed to be as strong as it is. You obviously have not been locked down in an area by a good tank driver/gunner. I imagine, if you had been, and had been many times, you'd be screaming nerf about it. There are two things you can do to destroy a Flail easy. One, get close enough to it, and two, get above it's aim. Simple. I was easily destroyed outside a tower by two guys using Decimators. I was not killed, but they effectively shut me down. The Flail has the same armor as a Liberator. How come your not screaming Nerf to the Lib????? A good Liberator pilot/bomber can fuck you up royally, and send you home to momma, crying. So why are you not screaming Nerf the Lib??
Obviously, you've never used a Flail.

[Cider_Ownz]

I jsut think it should feel more like an artilery.

Lower armor, slower ROF......... stuff like that.

It shouldn't really be able to defend itself against attacks, but it should be able to own everything from afar.

[WritheNC]

I don't have a problem with flails. I just drive full speed at them with a basilisk, stop while touching them, and then just hold down the fire button while they spend 10 seconds trying to see if they can hit me, then 5 seconds undeploying to run away. Its hilarious.

[MiniOrca]

Flails are overpowered in the sense their armor far exceeds what it should be. I was in the core where Falils run rampant and decided to "snipe" one with me 3 decimators. Ok well 7 of the shots hit and the thing was still turning around looking at what hit it. Not showing any signs of panic that it was getting hit by the strongest AV weapon in the game. I have 2 shots left in my last decimator and theres no way im gonna waste it. I just take out my chaingun and head inside.

Now listen to this.

As I was leaving the core, that same flail, which was almost at the other side of the cannon happened to see me. He takes a dumbshot into the air. The thing soars accross the whole canyon and plop, right on me as i was just about to go onto the blue string teleporter thing.

Ok ill stop now. :doh:

[MacavitySWE]

Err, artillery is supposed to be heavily armored... think about it: You have a big weapon that can rip thru most things at a range. Would you want to have the armor of a lightning?

Scenario: You deploy inside your base, fire a shot, a reaver sees you, flies off into your direction and kills you with one load of rockets before you've had the chance to say "uh oh"

Not likely, the flail is as Flammey said: Slow, cant fire undeployed and has a really slow rate of fire

Plus, everybody can use them, so there is no empire specific advantage.

[Veteran]

The Flail's shell should impact harmlessly until it has travelled for 300 meters, at which point any impact would be full detonation.

The idea of an artillery piece being used as an assault vehicle is most assuredly outside the devs' conception of this vehicle.

[Holgarth]

What anoys me about the flail is that it can kill you while you are under ground in a base or tower.

My squad was hold up in the last TR tower on Amerish and we were holding the NC off untill a flail parked itself and started shooting the back wall of the tower near the ground. It kept killing every one of us as we came out of the spawn tubes and at the equipment terminals and these were one shot kills...

It also shot the wall behind the tower CC killing the 3 max's in one shot. this is also happened while in a base. We added it up and that flail made about 30 kills at that tower, while only about 2-3 from other NC kills.

Cover should give some protection from the flail, let alone being underground.
I agree that there should be a minamin fire distance that the flail can not fire at or do damage, this is a long range weapon not an assault weapon.

Not deploying in an enemy soi sounds good as well.

[BDMJ]

Regarding flails and AA. It is really all about the gunner. I can't seem to get good long distance shelling going, but if an nme aircraft is within my firing arc you can kiss it goodbye (just ask aen ;) ). One of my outfit mates is the exact opposite. He never seems to have his distance shots interrupted by mountains etc and gets tons of kills with them, but a skeeter is a deadly threat to his flail.

I personally think that the arc should be raised slightly, so that the flail has less defense against tanks at close range. With the difficulty typically associated with obtaining one, I think the armor is fine.

[Meyvon]

I think the flail should simply have a minimum range to hit with full power.

halve the damage the gun does within 300meters.

that'll get people to freakin use it the way it was designed, for Long Distance shelling, and not as a replacement for your empire's MBT.

[Everay]

are you guys insane, okay, me and my outfit love working with flails, but you see it has its problems, first off, you cant shoot long range without a spotter, a role i find fun to fill, but hard since i dont have CC, so i cant use a laze. second, those shells, are like a frigging flair, it tells everything where you are at, and trust me, reavers and skeeters love to follow those flairs. and if you deployed it withing 300 meters of the base, ill tell you, it would be the first thing to be killed in that battle, everyone would go after it. also, now listen, just because you cant kill a tank when your a infantryman doesnt mean the game is unbalanced

[keaoi]

Im just saying that it shouldnt be used on the front lines. The damn thing should be worthless without a spotter. And as for the armor, its just crazy sick. Artillery HAS to be defended. Increase its speed for all I care, artillery should not be able to survive 4+ passes from Reavers.

I also agree with the 300 meters idea, that could even componsate foe my deploying in the enemy SOI idea. These things own everything, just it should be fire from the next base, or over the mountain, not 10m in front of me.

In the real military, I dont even think artillery can go under a 60 degree incline, and for good reason. You tilt that cannon down too far and it will just rip the support beams out from under it.

Just get the damn thing off the front lines. They should never been seen in base defense (unless pounding the next base).

Everay - I agree that anyone can see your shots, but it doesnt matter. The balances I suggested doesnt weaken in ITS ORGINAL ROLE. Just makes it less effective at close range. Real artillery is worthless within 10 miles (might be 5), of its target. Obviously, we cant have that with the flail, but it should be the equal. Its just wrong to see a Flail being effective within 100m of its target.

/edit/ i agree that a lightning's armor would be too low, but between that and a sund = perfect. Artillery should never be undefended. I saw some AWESOME squad last night that would have like 3 skyguards and 2 tanks (actually vans) defending it. There were 4 Flails sitting there. Now THAT is a Flail squad!! Im sure there was an AMS too. That was an awesome sight that I feel didnt abuse the Flail's exploits.

[Gigabein]

We're not arguing for extreme nerfs here. We're arguing reasonable armor vs. unreasonable. Real artillery doesn't need to be armored better than tanks, because when used properly it sits way back in relative safety.

And just because an item is common pool doesn't automatically mean it's balanced. That's a common misconception I've noticed PS players sometimes have.

In the real military, I dont even think artillery can go under a 60 degree incline, and for good reason. You tilt that cannon down too far and it will just rip the support beams out from under it.

This is RIGHT on. If you use a little logic, ask yourself, "Why does the flail have to deploy?" That big old gun must have some kick to it. Make a lower limit to how far down the gun can angle relative to the base mount.

[ZjinPS]

How many rounds can this vehicle carry?

[Happy lil Elf]

hahahahahahaha

[Unknown]

Simply put, a flail (one man vehicle) should NOT be able to take on a heavy tank (2-3 man vehicle) head to head and not only win every time, but come out with over 50% armor left. Smell that? Smells like imbalance to me.

Possible changes (and I'm not suggesting all these changes at once. In fact, all you Uber-Flail-Lovers, just pick ONE of these):
-Higher angle on the gun. So you can't defend your self from any and all ground based attacks.
-Lower armor, so you can't survive long enough to take out 2-3 heavy tanks attacking you simultaneously.
-Lower attack power. Keep the one hit kills on infantry, heck even MAXes, but make it 2 shots to kill a lightning and 4 or 5 to kill a heavy tank.

Another way to change it would be to force the use of the high arc instead of the low arc. Increase the angle on the gun so that it points 60-85 degrees and give the shots more of a drop. This would buff the artillary role (It would be able to shoot over base walls much easier, and the shots would be harder to track) while decreasing the one-man-army role (there would be a minimum of 4-5 second travel time before the shot hits the ground, so a tank driving around you would be near impossible to fight off. You'd *gasp* actually need cover!!!). This would make it harder to aim, granted, so give them the promised "range finder" shot that gives them a camera angle of where the shot goes if needed. Problem is, that might decrease the need for a spotter, at least for fixed targets (like vehicle pads). IMHO this would make the flail much more like an artillary vehicle, and much less like a mobile uber turret.

[Nimbus]

Flails aren't that bad.
I killed 2 with my cycler max yesterday.
My roommate got 5 with his mag before one killed him while repairing.

[gonnagetyou]

How many rounds can this vehicle carry?

They carry 150 rounds.

I haven't had any real negative experiences when going up against a flail yet so I'm not going to start crying nerf yet. They die pretty fast when you gang up on them or get really close where they can't hit you. Reaver and Mosquito pilots are slowly learning to hover above the guns elevation. From there you can shoot them all day without getting hit yourself. The rounds should deffinantly not be able to penetrate a base or towers walls. That's just too effective.

I ran across a group of flails using cloakers as spotters last night. I killed two spotters by listening for the sound the laser pointer makes and focused in on the source. Once I looked in the right direction, I could just make out their outlines on top of a hill nearby. I was in my Lightning and I just switched over to the 12mm and took them out. Unfortunately I received a direct hit from a flail shortly after and no more Lightning. :)

[BDMJ]

I like the idea of an angle increase myself. The trajectory of the shot is almost flat now. At anything other than extreme long range, it is difficult to not have bit of the scenery get in the way of the shot. This change would help the flail fulfill its artillery role more effectively, and make it easier to engage up close.

P.S. you vanu tankers are just pissed because the flail shots detonate on the water and hurt your normally virtually invulnerable tanks :P

[MacavitySWE]

How many rounds can this vehicle carry?

150 rounds, if you have a vehicle module on the base You are in and a link to dropship center you can rearm it, sloooowly

[noxious]

I think it should get a very small increase to it's minimum arc, so it can't hit things in front of it. And a massive increase to it's maximum arc, so it can lob shells over hills and base walls. It is an artillary piece after all. It's armor is fine as it is. Like some are saying, once found and teamed up apon, they are easily disposed of.

And for those whining about the prospect of actually needing a spotter... this is a team-based game remember. Some people think driving a tank is boring, I love it. So people think that spotting for a flail is boring, other's will love it.

[bryan25]

It needs a HUGE nerf. The thing is completely unbalanced. Everything I list, I saw with my own eyes.

It can...

- Camp air towers VERY effectively.
- Deploy outside a doorway, greeting players with a insta-kill suprise.
- Sit on a hill (sloping down), and spam a base.
- (This one REALLY F'ING PISSED ME OFF) Fire from JUST outside a warpgate, then after taking damage simply go back in and repair. This wouldnt be a problem if the damn thing wasnt just as strong as a GAL. :confused:

There are several actions I feel would be most appropriate.

- Stop the ability to repair ANYTHING within the SOI of a warpgate.
- Lower the armor of the Flail to something more like a Lightning (or less).
- Disable its ability to deploy within a enemy SOI.
- Force its deployment location to have the same requirements and landing an aircraft (VERY flat).
- Drasticly slow its aim rate while increasing its accuracy slightly. Artillery is precision equipment, and as such should require precision (slow) aiming.

This would the put the Flail back where it belongs. Which is anywhere but where it is now. The Front Lines.




OMG your a complete IDIOT!

[Doppler]

[QUOTE=MacavitySWE]Err, artillery is supposed to be heavily armored... think about it: You have a big weapon that can rip thru most things at a range. Would you want to have the armor of a lightning?

[QUOTE]

Err what the fuck makes you think artillery is sposed to be heavily armored. Artillery is a big fucking cannon, its defense is distance. One shot from a tank will either destroy artillery or mess up its precision guidance so bad its more or less worthless untill it get ssome serious downtime. I've only played with them briefly, their killing power and the distance doesnt bother me, but i really dont think they should have any more armor then say an enforcer. They should stomp the living hell out of stuff from distances or stuff they get the drop on, not be slugging it out with tanks.

[NNY]

One, get close enough to it, and two, get above it's aim. Simple.

damn i get right under these things and i cant even set boomers WTF is up with that?

[Jagd]

Boomers are bugged, you still can't place them too close to any vehicle.

[NNY]

what you mean i plased boomers under tanks before and lightings

[ChewyLSB]

They became bugged.

I can't believe people can actually justify the Flail as artillery. It's NOT. It should not be able to fire so low, it should not have so much armor. Real life artillery (Howitzers, Tomahawk Platforms, etc.) Do NOT have a lot of armor and they can NOT fire very low.

[Hamma]

Exactly.

[Bismarck]

They became bugged.

I can't believe people can actually justify the Flail as artillery. It's NOT. It should not be able to fire so low, it should not have so much armor. Real life artillery (Howitzers, Tomahawk Platforms, etc.) Do NOT have a lot of armor and they can NOT fire very low.

It's interesting you all compare this game to real life weapons and situations.

Hover tanks, guns that shoot energy orbs, tanks that have 150mm cannons that go 60 kph+ and can take shell after shell of an enemy tank, a high altitude shuttle that takes you to wherever you want to go instantly, which comes every minute.....yep, the devs are really stressing reality here.

The flail seems balanced to me, cant fire undeployed, get close and it cant hurt you.

*sigh*

[Unknown]

You guys have been saying that alot lately: "Get close to the flail and it can't hurt you". Well, that is true to some extent, however there are 2 problems with that:
1. Actually getting in close. Even tanks can have a hard time getting in close to these things, much less infantry.
2. Once you get in close? Well, if it's a smart driver and you're an infantry/MAX, it will just undeploy, move away a bit, then come back and mow you down. And if you're a tank, getting in close means you're going to hurt yourself with splash damage.

[MacavitySWE]

It's interesting you all compare this game to real life weapons and situations.

Hover tanks, guns that shoot energy orbs, tanks that have 150mm cannons that go 60 kph+ and can take shell after shell of an enemy tank, a high altitude shuttle that takes you to wherever you want to go instantly, which comes every minute.....yep, the devs are really stressing reality here.

The flail seems balanced to me, cant fire undeployed, get close and it cant hurt you.

*sigh*

My point exactly, this is a game called Planetside, not called Earthside 2003 ultra realistic battle

[Kuraltai]

Guess I'm in the minority with Flammey, BDMJ, Everay and Bismarck. I agree it's a powerful weapon, but don't believe it's over-balanced. I do agree with y'all about the tower issue, deploying a Flail next to a tower to camp is ludicrous, best you should be able to do is keep the deci/missile shooters off the 2nd floor/roof and be vulnerable from the lower level. Now, if this same Flail is deployed at a distance and a spotter has lazed the tower ... that's a different tale, and proper use. ;)

I have taken out several flails while gunning/driving a Prowler. Like with the Reaver and Mosquito, you have to be careful how close you get or you wind up putting yourself in harms way. The DC Max does a number on it too, given enough time. :D

[noxious]

It's interesting you all compare this game to real life weapons and situations.

Hover tanks, guns that shoot energy orbs, tanks that have 150mm cannons that go 60 kph+ and can take shell after shell of an enemy tank, a high altitude shuttle that takes you to wherever you want to go instantly, which comes every minute.....yep, the devs are really stressing reality here.

The flail seems balanced to me, cant fire undeployed, get close and it cant hurt you.

*sigh*


Indeed. It isn't reality. The weapons are far fetched but they all fullfull the same roles their real-life counterparts do.

The tanks counter enemy armor and infantry. What do the infantry do? Support the tanks and supress enemy infantry. Hey wow, that's exactly what they do in real life. What do the aircraft do? Assault enemy armor and infantry, as well as other aircraft. What counters that? Anti-aircraft weaponry, and other aircraft just like in real life. It's odd, the dots seem to be connecting. One would assume artillary would be... artillary.. just like in real life.

Alas, it isn't. The flail is a piece of the puzzle that just doesn't fit. It's labeled as artillary, but used as a tank. I believe it was designed with the intention to be used as such, but instead, it's just another tank. I have no problem with it except that it's being used as a tank and called an artillary piece.

[Hamma]

Using the argument that it isnt real life is not going to work. This thing has too much armor, I watched one stop, deploy and proceed to fire straight at a base yesterday. In the middle of a battle, that is stupid and not fun if you ask me.

[Kuraltai]

Using the argument that it isnt real life is not going to work. This thing has too much armor, I watched one stop, deploy and proceed to fire straight at a base yesterday. In the middle of a battle, that is stupid and not fun if you ask me.
Exactly Hamma, they should have to be deployed at a distance due to the arc required.

[Hamma]

I've also seen them spamming inside tower doors, this should not be allowed for such a weapon. You cant even get near the door when it's doing this - where is the fun in that?

[Bismarck]

Heh, I'm sure the guy in the flail is having more fun than we can imagine.

And still, you can't brake the reality argument into Inf, armor and air, its just not that simple. There's too many variables, indirect weapons like the phoenix, big guns on the water like the mag.

And if you just flat disagree with the flail (like hamma), well thats your opinon, and in many ways you're right, the whole tower thing is wrong. But if you expect the general population to park their flails way the hell out there and rely on spotters you got another thing coming. There will never be a sucessful vehicle in this game that absolutly requires another person to be of any significance whatsoever. You may say things like the liberator, or tank or skygaurd requires another person, but they can kill without. Only the most organized of outfits will make any use of it, and the opportunities to use the flail topside are so rare I doubt we would ever see one.

Try and find a middle ground somewhere, that'll work

[ChewyLSB]

Obviously, some things (like infiltrators) aren't going to be the same as in real life. (Although infiltrations could be compared a bit to spywork. Fighting isn't a good idea unless there's only one guy, you do stuff like sabotage enemy equipment, etc.) But the flail now is ridiculous! You justify it having as much armor as a galaxy, the strength to kill a tank in ONE SHOT, and still have the ability to run down an enemy infantry? I mean, JEEZ. Like I said before, two main things would balance it out completely.

- Reduce the firing arc so that you cannot fire below 60 degrees.

Reasoning: COME ON! It's ARTILLERY NOT A TURRET. It's not supposed to be in the front lines. Go to a real war, do you see howitzers sitting on the front lines? OF COURSE NOT! YOU CAN'T EVEN FIRE THAT ****ING LOW IN A HOWITZER. Do you not understand this?

- Reduce the armor so that it is lower than a lightning. This makes sense, also, since artillery generally isn't very well armored. It's armor is DISTANCE. Basically, a reaver should be able to take down a flail with one clip.

[Bismarck]

Reasoning: COME ON! It's ARTILLERY NOT A TURRET. It's not supposed to be in the front lines. Go to a real war, do you see howitzers sitting on the front lines? OF COURSE NOT! YOU CAN'T EVEN FIRE THAT ****ING LOW IN A HOWITZER. Do you not understand this?



Do I now understand what? that this is not real life and the flail sure as fucking hell is NOT a howitzer??? Well then yea, i get ya.

Sure, the flail could use a nerf, but not on the grounds of the HOWIZTER not being able to fire below 60 degrees. Time for a reality check

[MacavitySWE]

- Reduce the armor so that it is lower than a lightning. This makes sense, also, since artillery generally isn't very well armored. It's armor is DISTANCE. Basically, a reaver should be able to take down a flail with one clip.


Ok so a infiltrator should be able to take it out with his pistol then?

I just played the flail and I saw a very good tactic actually, i parked 500 metres from a tower and pounded it. The commander inside the tower called for backup from 4 aircrafts nearby, 2 reavers, one mosq and one Lib. I lasted maybe 1 min, got 20 kills but the aircraft killed me easily.

I downed the mosq tho ;)

I can reason with these points, its firing arc and possibly the no deploy within SOI as to avoid spamming entrances.

[FightForFreedom]

I saw a flail today, it was on a hill camping a tower. I got onto the roof and fired my 2 decimators at it, all 6 shots hit, it didn't blow up. It fired one shot and killed me. It's pointless even trying to shoot those things. You could fire 3 decimators at that thing and not kill it, then it could take a pot shot and the splash would kill you in an instant. On a different occasion, one of those camped a tower. About 100 of us were attacking a base and were spawning at that tower until an AMS came. That 1 flail stopped every last one of us from getting withing 100 yards of the base. It needs a nerf.

[BadAsh]

I've only been playing for a little over a week now... but it seems to be you just need to use a little common sense to determine if a particular thing in a game needs balancing...

For me, new guy with limited certs, I had to make the decision to Flail or Snipe.

A sniper can fight from a distance but can't defend against aircraft, vehicles, MAX's, and runs the risk of a cloaker coming from behind or several infantry rushing his position. Why snipe, just FLAIL away :)

With the Flail you own as a distance with 1 shot infantry kills (snipers only dream of this ability), you can own flyers that are not careful, you can fight against tanks and other vehicles, and MAXs just more one shot kill fodder like the infantry. And you have the armor of a tank so cloakers can get behind you... but now what? They can't do anything... lol. And with some teamwork the Flail can use a spotter and fire from behind obstructions safe from return fire. No sniper can do that.

It seems to me that the Flail will eventually replace all of those snipers you see in big battles as every one realizes how easy it is to be effective with these things because of their raw power.

As a sniper my kill/death ratio was about 2 to 1. Unlearning sniping and learning Flail my "sniping" kill ratio has gone up to about 13 to 1 and my victims include hard and soft targets. Big difference from the soft target only 2 shot kill sniper rifle.

Today, I switched my cert back from Flail to Sniper. The Flail is too easy. Sniper kills feel earned. Flail kills feel �cheap�.

BadAsh

[Unknown]

*Applause* Good for you Bad. You certed in the flail, found out how much it totally rocked, then instead of turning into Gollum with the ring ("My precioussss") and trying to justify it to everyone as a perfectly balanced weapon, you stepped back and looked at the bigger picture to see the flail for what it is: unbalanced. Too bad you're not on Emerald, it'd be an honor to die to a foe like you :D.

[BDMJ]

Most of these problems would be remedied if the arc of the flail was forced up, the shot slowed (so it doesn't have such a shallow trajectory), and the anchoring rules tightened up (anchoring on a 70 degree incline :rolleyes: )

The armor should remain the same, but the main gun should get a few adjustments to make it impossible to use close up. Due to the difficulty obtaining one, it shouldn't have paper thin armor.

[Unknown]

Most of these problems would be remedied if the arc of the flail was forced up, the shot slowed (so it doesn't have such a shallow trajectory), and the anchoring rules tightened up (anchoring on a 70 degree incline :rolleyes: )

The armor should remain the same, but the main gun should get a few adjustments to make it impossible to use close up. Due to the difficulty obtaining one, it shouldn't have paper thin armor.

Agreed. That seems to be the best solution to the uber flail problem IMHO.

[Incompetent]

I'm going to have to agree with BDMJ on this one too, when flails are used as arty they are fairly balanced, but some of the shit you can pull with them is just wrong.

[MacavitySWE]

Most of these problems would be remedied if the arc of the flail was forced up, the shot slowed (so it doesn't have such a shallow trajectory), and the anchoring rules tightened up (anchoring on a 70 degree incline :rolleyes: )

The armor should remain the same, but the main gun should get a few adjustments to make it impossible to use close up. Due to the difficulty obtaining one, it shouldn't have paper thin armor.

Good thoughts, I can agree with these

But they also need to make the targetwaypoints have secondary fire-arcs if you know what i mean, one "shallow" and one megahigh up to avoid obstacles.

[keaoi]

OMG your a complete IDIOT!

wow im glad your elaborated on that one

:stoppost:

[sutserikeru]

I jsut think it should feel more like an artilery.

Lower armor, slower ROF......... stuff like that.

It shouldn't really be able to defend itself against attacks, but it should be able to own everything from afar.
(yes i know this is from a while back, but i need to prove my point ;p)
1. Artillery cannons are staionary when firing, thus they need the armor to survive whil deployed. get it? good. moving on.
2. the ROF is fine, it fires a round every 5 seconds, if you can move your ass out of there in five seconds, go play another game
3. if you were in the real military like i was for 10 years, youd know how artillery works. (if anything the ROF needs to be increased)
4. Why shouldnt it be able to defend itself? isnt that kind of defeating the purpose of a war vech? yes.
5. There should be a side gunner with a sycthe like the SB, only it can only be deployed when the flail is
6. ITS ARTILLERY, ITS SUPPOSED TO BE STRONG. Weak Artillery means no support. The Reavers cant even take 3 Mag Rail Rounds, so stfu
7. Artillery is supposed be support, not precision you n00b, why do u think it has such massive splash damage? itd be a super long range sniper rifle if it was supposed to be precise...
8. just shut up, you have no idea wtf youre talking about.

[BDMJ]

Please don't bring any "in RL so and so is...." arguments to the table.

If I have to explain this one....

[keaoi]

(yes i know this is from a while back, but i need to prove my point ;p)
1. Artillery cannons are staionary when firing, thus they need the armor to survive whil deployed. get it? good. moving on.
2. the ROF is fine, it fires a round every 5 seconds, if you can move your ass out of there in five seconds, go play another game
3. if you were in the real military like i was for 10 years, youd know how artillery works. (if anything the ROF needs to be increased)
4. Why shouldnt it be able to defend itself? isnt that kind of defeating the purpose of a war vech? yes.
5. There should be a side gunner with a sycthe like the SB, only it can only be deployed when the flail is
6. ITS ARTILLERY, ITS SUPPOSED TO BE STRONG. Weak Artillery means no support. The Reavers cant even take 3 Mag Rail Rounds, so stfu
7. Artillery is supposed be support, not precision you n00b, why do u think it has such massive splash damage? itd be a super long range sniper rifle if it was supposed to be precise...
8. just shut up, you have no idea wtf youre talking about.

man u have obviously NOT been in any "military" cept maybe a weekend warrior or the coast guard. though i make it a point not to flame anybody, your complete ignorance has earned it. i also make a point to try and not reveal anything about my identity, but your ignorance has pissed me off enough to do so. I was a Chief in the United States Navy, have practiced more war games, and seen more countries than a little pathetic maggot like you could not possibly comprehend. Your idiotic attempt to impersonate a member of MY country's beloved military has angered me to a point that wishes you WOULD actually enlist in the military, as that would teach you some god damn respect.

1. Artillery MUST stay stationary to lob a massive shell like that dozens of miles. Where in your pathetic little mind did this lead you to the conclusion that it needs galaxy-like armor? Artillery was postioned so that it could have the maximum cover. This means deploying on a FLAT surface down in a valley, with AA batteries protecting it on the hill tops, with AV batteries protecting the AA batteries, and so on. My position on the Flail is that it is inappropiate for long-range batteries to be deployed 5m from the front door, AND still be able to fire inside the door. A F'ing gernade could take out Artillery batteries, but Im sure you knew that maggot. Not that I feel (in Planetside) that a gernade should take out artillery, but most certainly 64 reaver rockets should have done the job 2 times over(64 is my actual playtest, it put the Flail at 5-10% health).

2. The only thing in your post that actual made any attmpt at a valid arguement was #2. HOWEVER, a faster ROF with the flail in its current condition would throw game-balance way out of line.

3. ENLIST NOW YOU WHINY LITTLE SOB
http://www.navy.com/index.jsp
http://www.army.mil/
http://www.marines.com
http://www.airforce.com/index_fr.htm

4. You said it yourself. ITS SUPPORT not a war vech. no it should not be able to defend itself. For all purposes, within 300m of the god damn thing it should be consider as much a threat as an ANT.

5. OMG

6. See number 1

7. Not since WW2 has artillery been inaccurate, never did i mention a nerf to the damage. This reply of yours has led me to believe that you are nothing more than an insecure little pussy that would be unable to even respond to #3 if you even had the balls.

8. A big little girl now arent we?

Aplogies to everyone else who reads this, but his ignorance must be corrected. I have a feeling he is just a pasty little white boy that has yet to understand the concept of patriotism. Perhaps he is bullied at school. So he comes here to act big and "fight back". Whatever it is, for his own good, he needs to enlist.

[ZionsFire]

Keoi, you hit the nail on the head.

[keaoi]

thank you, i am completely intolerant of that kind of disrespect and ignorance.

[Tegadil]

and the anchoring rules tightened up (anchoring on a 70 degree incline :rolleyes: )


Gunbound!

[flypengy]

A weapon that is used at extreme range. (And the flail is used at extreme ranges should have low armor. It is not suppose to be used in direct combat, hence the 1km firing range. This weapon needs to be far more dependent on the use of the laze pointer. Most times I see flails just camping a tower and taking massive amounts of punishment.

There is a fine line between tanks and artillery. Artillery is support and is not suppose to be used in direct combat (which would make it very undependent on armor) Why would you need massive amounts of armor when you're firing on enemies that are not even visible? Tanks are heavily armored at the sacrafice of fire power.

Another issue with the flail is the mowing. I would say that the flail is a far more effective mower than any other vehicle in the game (except for perhaps the switchblade) Now... who's ever heard of artillery running people over. Again, this is a long range suppressive weapon, you're not suppose to be able to run in the heat of battle mowing infantry.

[MacavitySWE]

Another issue with the flail is the mowing. I would say that the flail is a far more effective mower than any other vehicle in the game (except for perhaps the switchblade) Now... who's ever heard of artillery running people over. Again, this is a long range suppressive weapon, you're not suppose to be able to run in the heat of battle mowing infantry.

I have not yet mowed one person with the flail, I tried several times but the darn thing is so slow and even when I hit them they don't die ;)

AMS on the other hand=ubermower

http://gucomics.com/archives/view.php?cdate=20031008

[BadAsh]

1. Artillery cannons are staionary when firing, thus they need the armor to survive whil deployed. get it? good. moving on.
2. the ROF is fine, it fires a round every 5 seconds, if you can move your ass out of there in five seconds, go play another game
3. if you were in the real military like i was for 10 years, youd know how artillery works. (if anything the ROF needs to be increased)
4. Why shouldnt it be able to defend itself? isnt that kind of defeating the purpose of a war vech? yes.
5. There should be a side gunner with a sycthe like the SB, only it can only be deployed when the flail is
6. ITS ARTILLERY, ITS SUPPOSED TO BE STRONG. Weak Artillery means no support. The Reavers cant even take 3 Mag Rail Rounds, so stfu
7. Artillery is supposed be support, not precision you n00b, why do u think it has such massive splash damage? itd be a super long range sniper rifle if it was supposed to be precise...
8. just shut up, you have no idea wtf youre talking about.

Ok some counter points:

1. Armor should not protect the Flail. Distance from the enemy and intelligent strategic placement is its protection. Get it? Good. Moving on! (P.S. Sorry I could not resist ;) )
2. Ok so in point 2 you admit the raw over power of the Flail by insinuating that the only way to survive a Flail is to run for your life. Further you insult those who try in vein to fight the Flail by inviting them to go play another game if they don�t know to run and run fast. Silly rabbits did not know to run from the Uber-Flail.
3. If you were in the real military you would know that real artillery has no armor (crews are exposed � oh and another point� it takes a CREW to man artillery not an army of one). Second, um, what artillery takes out aircraft? Third, what artillery piece drives up to enemy lines under direct fire, deploys, and then kills anyone not smart enough to RUN?
4. What artillery guns defend themselves? None, they require a supporting army in which every unit does it�s job.
5. Side gunner? LOL. Why not just shrink the Flail to MAX size so it can enter buildings, give it wings to fly, and allow it to fire while moving/flying. Then allow the driver to effect repairs and hack facilities from within the unit. I mean if you want to be completely ridicules about it, why stop at a side gunner?
6. No you STFU! Nah nah nah nee boo boo (keeping the argument level the same)
7. �Artillery is supposed to be support� BINGO, we have a winner. That�s exactly why is should have little to no armor, be unable to hit aircraft, and need spotter to fire at all. Alone it should be a sitting duck, as part of a TEAM it could, if used correctly, the tool that turns the tide of a battle as a SUPPORT unit, NOT a front line show stopper.
8. You are talking to a mirror again aren�t you? My advice: Listen to the man in the mirror. :)


BadAsh

[Doppler]

Not trying to backup sut but their is anti air artillery units. Actualy i remember seeing a thing the other day how they're going to be rollign out with artillery robots for small unit firesupport (these as far as artillery pieces go are dinky little things) mounted on APC's (traditionaly the bradly if memory serves). ALl the human crew needs to do is handle the reloads and fire it in mnaul mode if the situation warrants. I merely bring this up as a point of intrest, but this system only works because the spotter down range feeds the unit gps targets.

[Veteran]

Artillery piece vs. assault vehicle is the question here.

Since it's under Mobile Artillery, the answer is clear.

I think the devs will get the drift and patch it, otherwise PS has a new heavy assault vehicle.

I have yet to have a Flail driver ask me to be his forward spotter. When that day happens, I will gladly go paint some targets. As it is now, he doesn't need anyone but his trigger.

[keaoi]

Artillery piece vs. assault vehicle is the question here.

Since it's under Mobile Artillery, the answer is clear.

I think the devs will get the drift and patch it, otherwise PS has a new heavy assault vehicle.

I have yet to have a Flail driver ask me to be his forward spotter. When that day happens, I will gladly go paint some targets. As it is now, he doesn't need anyone but his trigger.

exactly, the only problem with this is that, only dedicated outfits would take the time to ultilize this ability. Whats even worse is that with the new XP systems, deploying this thing on the front lines is warrented, because it gets more kills than from 3km away. IMHO this also means that its more effective at short range. My outfit rarely employs Flail use, but when we do, we are less devestating than Mr.N00B with Br2 and his precious Flail.

When it comes down to it, Flail's spamming towers from 5m away on top of the hill you coulnt land a reaver on is a "perfect example of a common pool game imbalance". For those of you that doubt the possibility of its exsistence, ask yourself how fun Doom would have been if we started the game with a 150 round BFG. Or maybe UT with 150 rounds of redeemer? Just cause everyone can get it, doenst put it on par with where it should be.

I dont feel Im asking anything unreasonable, but heres a quick recap of what I feel would be appropriate:

- Lower armor about 50% (not a random number, I can see it survivng 2+ reaver passes, but not 4)

- Make deployment requirements same as landing aircraft. (prevents base spamming at close range)

- Up the speed and deployment rate. (Mobile artillery should be able to retreat fast, but not faster than say the speed of a AMS )(NOTE: Im not being realistic here, just helping game balance)

- Increase minimum and maximum firing height/arc by 20%. (cant defend itself up close, but can fire over obstacles.)

- Increase projectile speed slightly. Slow refire rate VERY slightly. (this actually makes it MORE deadly againist aircraft, but with less armor, it wont last as long)

- Prevent from deploying within enemy SOI
-or-
Half the damage within 300m

The nerfs put it FAR away from the front lines, and the buffs make it more like artillery while not sacraficing game-balance.

[Flammey]

Oh, why the hell stop at nerfing the Flail. Let's fucking nerf EVERY GOD DAMN THING IN THE GAME. Oh, even better, I'll give you a rubber bat, and I'll take a rubber bat, and we'll hit our enemies with that, until they fall down.

You want to make it so that the Flail can not fire below 60 Degrees. Uh, HELLOOOOOO. It right now fires from horizon to maybe 50 degrees. THINK. HELLOOOO.

Half the Damage within 300 Meters. HELLOOOOOO. It's artillery. If anything it would damage DEGRADE, not damage INCREASE.

The Deployment speed, and vehicle speed are fine. THAT's what gives it ONE vulnerability.

Decrease the armor by 50%. Unnecessary. 3 grunts managed to take out one Flail by ourselves. We simply got close with Lashers/Maelstroms. That was it. It couldn't deploy fast enough. I was attacked by ONE Reaver, and I was dead. It hit me with 30 missles, and I was gone. I couldn't deploy fast enough, nor could I hit it, as he was above the 50 degree max angle.

Prevent from deploying within nme soi. Okay, Then you TR can't deloy your MAX's and no one can deploy their Switchblades, AMS's, and Routers. Use your head boy. That's a BAD idea.
The firing speed and rate of fire are fine.

Don't forget. THIS IS ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY, yet set in the future. It is also a game. The Flail has exactly the same armor as the AMS. THE ONLY THING THAT SHOULD BE DONE TO NERF THE FLAIL IS TO SET A MAXIMUM PER EMPIRE, much like maximum Mods, and Maximum mods being run. Set a limit of Flails allowed.
And quick calling it Uber. It isn't the End-All-Be-All weapon. Your side isn't suddenly going to lose just because the other side has one outside your base or tower. And think about this, I chased away a Flail with a Gauss toting Armor Piercing rounds. And it wasn't even attacking my base/tower. I just happened to Drop near him when he tried setting up, and got close. And I've had my flail fucked up by 2 guys firing Decimators almost one after the other, so there was a steady stream of rockets hitting me. Took 10 decimators to kill me, and when I killed one of them, he was replaced by someone bringing replacment Decis. The Flail isn't a super weapon. So, you want to nerf it? Well, like I said, then let's nerf every fucking thing in the game.

[Flammey]

Oh, and one more thing.

You people complain to fucking much. Why don't you try playing more, and bitching less. You don't see me complaining about anything in game. I do, as a matter of fact, have things to bitch about. Like, for instance, did you know that those Ancient Tech Turrets can fire downwards at a 60 Degree angle? You cannot get close to one with an NME in it and live. Unless he's a fucking retard. But I'm not going to complain about that, as I can use it too, to MY advantage. Quit fucking complaining, and think about ways to nerf shit. Why not THINK about WAYS to use the FLAIL to YOUR ADVANTAGE???????????

[keaoi]

didnt mean to set you off flammey, ur a good guy, but seriously. i pay $13 a month just like you do. you dont like me having an issue with something i subscibe to? fine. skip the thread. its not gonna kill you.

also, with the 30 rockets. bs. seriously, im good with the reaver, and i did 4+ passes on one it was still alive. no way thats they same as an AMS. im not saying nerf it cause its pwning me too much. ive been killed by one maybe 3 times.

its just that i know what the orginal concept for the flail was. artillery. not moveable super-turret that goes one on one with vanguards and wins.

[Flammey]

didnt mean to set you off flammey, ur a good guy, but seriously. i pay $13 a month just like you do. you dont like me having an issue with something i subscibe to? fine. skip the thread. its not gonna kill you.

also, with the 30 rockets. bs. seriously, im good with the reaver, and i did 4+ passes on one it was still alive. no way thats they same as an AMS. im not saying nerf it cause its pwning me too much. ive been killed by one maybe 3 times.

its just that i know what the orginal concept for the flail was. artillery. not moveable super-turret that goes one on one with vanguards and wins.

Yes, I see what you mean. I wasn't set off by any one person. I was set off by lack of reasonable thought on many people's part. If you want to tweak the Flail so that it acts more like Artillery, then that's fine. But use your heads when giving ideas. A good 95% of the ideas I saw were not functional.

As for those 30 rockets, I can't say if it was that EXACTLY, but it sure seemed like it. It was probably more like 50 rockets. 4+ Passes? Well, there's your problem. He was stationary above me. Not moving. Shooting almost straight down.

And hey, of course you have the right to scrutinize things because you pay for them. My posts were not meant to slam people for wanting to nerf the Flail. I'm just tired of reading about people wanting to nerf things just because they keep getting killed by it. This is just another thing people want to nerf in a string of things people want to nerf. OFN. I just want people to use their heads when they say, "HEY, THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED." I say, why change it? Use it to your advantage!

Here's one way to take on a Flail, and with a tank. Do not be seen by it first. Come from behind. Hit it fast and hard. When it starts to turn towards what is shooting it, MOVE MOVE MOVE. You can drive faster than it can turn. KEEP MOVING. Keep firing. Even better yet, take it on with 3 empire tanks. Personal experiance- Flail is little match for a good Magrider pilot and gunner. As long as the Mag driver keeps moving the same way the Flail's Turret moves. IF the Flail's Turret get's in line with your vehicle. MOVE towards the Flail. Always towards. Pass it on a side, and run away. You'll get away before it can turn towards you. That's not always possible, as the Flail might be on a mountain, but hey, chances are, the Flail won't be able to hit you if you keep moving and manuevering. Make sharp turns around trees, rocks, what ever you can. Break the Flail's Line-of-sight.

[keaoi]

i understand that flails can be countered, but the killing through walls? deploying right outside a tower? if i used everything i could to my advantage, id be GODJOEY2, and thats not my playstyle. in fact, few people choose to play that way. i have no problems with anything else in the game. not a frequent OMFG NERF TEH "__________" poster. honestly i even feel the jackhammer is the 2nd best HA (I ph34r ur chaingun TR) (NOTE: PLZ DO NOT FLAME ME, THAT IS A PERSONAL OBSERVATION BASED UPON MY PREFERED PLAYSTYLE) and i think the reaver was fine the way it was, and fine the way it is.

not much can bother me, but the flail is an exploit, exploited all too often, and the balances suggested on this thread do not in anyway weaken its orginal role, but instead makes the consequences for "putting it where it dont belong" more severe, and encourage teamwork (PS will never NOT need incentive for teamplay) by lazing targets.

/edit/ the "no deployment in SOI" would also be reserved for Flail's only.

[Flammey]

Well, see, what I was bitching about is how people just throw out ideas to so-called fix the Flail. Most of the ideas I've seen would make the Flail worthless than zero. Instead of picking the Flail to pieces by reducing the armor or the damage capability, or even how it's able to setup, why not change things like, as I said, allowing only a certain amount per continent per empire. Or slow down the turret rotation speed. Or increase the minimum elevation AND maximum elevation. Just saying, "Oh why don't they make it so that it can't fire under 60 degree angle?" is just plain not thinking. The thing doesn't go above 50 degrees as it is NOW. (FYI - This isn't fact, just personal observation and mathematical observation. It seemed to be able to angle from 0 degrees to 50 degrees.) And personally, just because you use things to your advantage does not mean you'll become a great player. And Godjoey isn't a great player. Not from my personal fighting experiance against him, nor from an objective stand point. His kill count is deceiving. As I've said before, 77% of his kills are against Standard Exosuit. Which means he kills a lot of people who have just spawned. I'm not saying that the whole 77% was people just spawned. I said alot. PERSONALLY I don't feel special when I spawn camp. I don't feel that I'm a good player to do so. I do it because it's a way to keep the nme from messing your work up. What ever that may be. Some peope, might say, "well then, blow up the tubes." I don't just go around blowing spawn tubes. I only blow them up when I feel that I can't handle the situation. If MAX's are just going to start spawning out of no where, then I can't handle the situation, blow the tubes. But one or two guys is not hard to handle. I'm not proud of it either. But it is necessary. But this is getting off the point of the Flail. I'm saying, quit giving ideas that are worthless, and give ideas that can be used. Like this, Right now, the Flail can target any SL WP I fire on that. THAT should be changed. The only targeting that should be able to be fired upon is the Laze pointer WP. THAT's it. Some moron would come up with the idea, "Well, how about they make it so that the Flail Can't fire unless someone sets a Laze WP?" Stupid. Then the Flail would be worthless than zero. Could not protect itself at all. Dumb idea.

Which brings me to the Common pool issue. I don't see people bitching about the power of the Decimator. It can destroy a MAX in 1 or 2 shots, and often a MAX has no chance, especially if the decimator is in the hands of a skilled operator. The Decimator is the single most powerful hand held weapon out there right now. It kills MAX's, Vehicles, and even some unlucky grunts. That brings up the power of the Flail's shot. Why say, "Oh, decrease the power of the shot by half damage. *Smacks you upside the head* You don't even know how much damage it does in the first place. I've not been able to figure it out, have you? Hurts more than a 150 mm shell, but that's all I can tell. Can take out a tank in 3-4 shots, where as a 150mm shell might take 6-10. But god knows that too for sure. For one, it's Artillery. And who ever said it wasn't meant to be assult needs to redefine his idea of assault. IT IS ASSAULT. It's meant to soften up targets before the seige begins. That's my idea of assault to a tee. So instead of saying cut it's damage by half, come up with a better idea, like cut it's turning speed down by say 10%. It can still defend itself, but a faster vehicle can stay away from the shot, meaning the Flail operator has to be creative, or *Feign surprise* even have people defending him.
And before you go all hob nob on me, I firmly believe the Flail is fine the way it is. I've yet to see one come out, and change the tide of a battle. Usually the battle is already going one way, and the flail just helps it along. But I've not seen the nme losing, and bring out a flail and all of a sudden my side is losing. Hasn't happened yet. Probably won't. Last time the nme was losing, and brought out a Flail, me and my Buddy killed it with our Mag. And I was gunning. I never missed a shot, and it never hit us once, although it tried. So I still say, instead of telling me why it's broke, and needs fixing, why not actually look at the thing from all angles. How do you truly balance the Flail? Do you want to make it so that NO ONE will want to use it? Will you make it so that EVERYONE will want to use it? Or will you make it so that it is useful in certain situations and useless in others? THINK PEOPLE

[keaoi]

I just cant understand WHY you think the Flail is fine the way it is. It seems as though your only reading half of what I post. Things like "Half the damage" or "Stop deployment within enemy SOI" is not all I said. These things are reserved for the Flail alone, and BY FAR do not make it worthless. You also forgot that potential balances I listed were "Increase movement speed; Increase projectile speed; Increase (un)deployment rate" could possibly even up the damage for all I care.

But if the damn thing is shooting threw walls is "fine", or deploying on a 80 degree slope so its entire range of fire is into the base is "fine" then we completely differ in our view of "Godjoey" like tactics and of Planetsides balance. Which is fine, I really dont care if I change your view on this. Like I said before, "It's your $13"

Flail's are devestating at range, espically when defended by a full squad. People who want to defend it in its current state fail to see the bigger picture. Its not an assault tank. It doesnt need, nor should it be on the front lines. Just dont be surprised when these balances go into effect. I'm sure the devs are just as happy as I am, seeing that their new toy is not filling its proper role.

(NOTE: not sayin these will, beyond a reason of a doubt, go into effect, but that they will most likely go into effect. SOE has suprised me before.)

/edit/ i take offense that you consider my "tweaks" random throw outs. I gave these considerable thought, AND discussed them with a outfit member. Not calling myself a professional on the flail, but I dont feel they would be taken "word for word" and put into code.

[Tegadil]

stufstuffstuffHELLOOOOOOOOstuff

Hello!

And that thing about giving two sights for the target (shallow and fast/deep and slow) sounds good to me. Reminds me of Tribes with the heavy mortars :p

[Queensidecastle]

The problem with the Flail in a nutshell is that Artillery should have to fire at high degrees of angle to place thier shots. The unit should be a towers or more distance from the base it is attacking and be forced to fire at say 45-85 degrees for its shots like a Mortar.

Unfortunatly, they designed the flail where it shoots like a tank shell and thus you have an artillery piece that acts like a tank. In my opinion it should work like the mortar (for heavies) did in tribes. Where the laser pointer makes a target appear in the sky for the guy manning the Flail where he has to make skill shots at 75-80 degrees if he wants to hit anything

[Happy lil Elf]

40 Rocklets to kill an AMS. 54 To kill a Flail. That alone seems rather out of whack.

[Aen]

Me=Inside floor 2=Flail shot from outside on floor 1= Me Dead

Oh yeah, I was in a MAX. Isnt that some shit?

[keaoi]

for those of you that doubt its uberness

http://planetsideimages.com/uploads/uberflail.JPG

i was killed twice in the bottom of that tower from 1 of the 3 flail's fire. needless to say we lost the tower. (though we later recaputered it when there were fewer Flails)

PS - oh and for those of you that say, "use a reaver u n00b" im sure the three bursters "defending" the location would have had quite a blast with that.

/edit/ lol sorry, look at the map in the pic itself. my bad

[Flammey]

Well, this shooting through walls is wrong. But I've been killed by rockets when I'm inside, and the door is closed. I've also been run over by a Harasser when I was inside. So you go figure that one out.

[Aen]

A harasser? Thas funney!

[Unknown]

I was killed by a reaver's chain guns once. I was hacking the CC of a tower all the way on the other side of the continent from the reaver pilot (how do I know? moments after my death, he killed one of my squadmates who was, you guessed it, on the other side of the cont).

[keaoi]

Well, this shooting through walls is wrong. But I've been killed by rockets when I'm inside, and the door is closed. I've also been run over by a Harasser when I was inside. So you go figure that one out.

yes the devs really need to fix that. MCGs used to do it to me alot. The sad thing about the Flail is that I was 1 of about 20 peeps who died. 3 times. Had it not been for this we wouldnt have lost that tower.

60 kills in 3 shots. XP exploit? yes. Gameplay exploit. you bet.

[Kikinchikin]

flammey your problem with the harasser running you over could be the lag/clientside detection. The guy driving probably sees you outside still since hes lagging on his 56k modem

[Queensidecastle]

Yeah, getting killed in towers by Flails is happening a lot lately. It was very rare to die by other vehicles in towers, but I get killed by flails in towers 2 or 3 times a day. I am sure that Sony is working on that because obviously that is not intended