Gun Control Question?

[Toimu]

I just don't understand something. If you took all guns away, the only self defence would be physical. The average person to be a victim of a violent crime in the US is a small women, or the elderly. The average person to commit a violent crime in the US is a male between 18-35 years old, 5'6"- 6'0", and 150-190 lbs. (I'm guessing on the numbers, but it's close to this last I heard. I couldn't find the numbers, would love to see them if someone has a link.) Basicly, a criminal picks someone they can over power.

But how many people would break into a home, rob/rape someone, if 100% of the law abiding population not only carried/owned guns, but also went to the gun range often?


http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSLaw0112/18_vio-cp.html

Canadian criminals are more likely to steal cars, burn buildings and commit break-ins than are their American counterparts, a Statistics Canada study indicates.

U.S. lawbreakers are more likely to commit homicide, assault and robbery, says the study comparing crime rates between the two countries between 1980 and 2000.

Why is this? Canada has more gun laws than US right?


http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r551.html

TOXICS AND VIOLENT CRIME

Pollution causes people to commit violent crimes --homicide, aggravated assault, sexual assault and robbery --according to new research by Roger D. Masters and co-workers at Dartmouth College.[1] Sociologists have known for a long time that violent crimes occur more in some places than in others. Some U.S. counties have only 100 violent crimes per 100,000 people per year; other counties have rates of violent crime that are 30 times as high. The question is why some places have high crime rates and others don't. Masters says pollution is part of the answer.
Can this be true?

I just want to hear what anti-gun people think. How would taken guns away from law abiding citizens make criminals stop commiting violent crimes? Criminals don't obay the law! So do you think/know that people commit violent crimes do it without thinking, (spur of the moment), and wouldn't if they didn't have a gun?

What if guns never existed? What would stop a criminal (or a group of criminals) from attacking a person weaker than them? Swords? Axes? Knifes? Other weapons? Well, what if those didn't existed either? What can be used for good, can also be used for bad. Then there would only be martial arts. Once again, what be used for good, can also be used for bad. So out law martial arts. Then you still have who is just stronger or largest number of people to worry about. How would you solve that? Personal gaurds issued by the government? How many violent crimes happen in maxium security prisons? (Most of these have been done in the past by rulers or governments)

What about a test to see if someone is violent? How would you test someone to see if they are violent? Do we have the technology to tell if someones' DNA or pollution intake will make them violent?

Just what good will taking guns away from law abiding citizans do?

I personally think increasing the punisment is the only way to reduce crime. Cut off someones hand for stealing. Execute them for murder. Bring Caining (sp?) into the US. etc...

[Hamma]

:ugh:

What is up with all the damn political debates on this forum.

[Flashingfish]

Not this crap again D;

[Navaron]

God created all men, Samuel Colt made all men equal.

[�io]

Originally posted by Hamma
:ugh:

What is up with all the damn political debates on this forum.

:lol:

Poor Hamma, poor poor :zzz:

(Guess where that is from anyone? :))

[Toimu]

Originally posted by Dio
:lol:

Poor Hamma, poor poor :zzz:

(Guess where that is from anyone? :))

Grandpa Simpson?

Originally posted by Hamma
:ugh:

What is up with all the damn political debates on this forum.

Would you perfer whinning brates on your fansite? I'm glade we don't have alot of whinning brates here.

Also, if you're going to vote different from me (I vote More leanent Gun laws) please say why if you have the time.

[Revolution]

Gun control is a serious issue. I live in a state where guns are easy to get as long as you do not have a violent crime background. Thus it seems it is a safer place to live than my home area of LA, California.
So we can go back and forth on the issue lets just call up RUSH L and ask him for the answer :rolleyes: .
Whatever you're opinion is I am pro guns due to the fact that if the majority of the people are packing, criminals will think twice about commiting a violent crime or what have you(you can argue about criminals being able to get their hands on em too but if you are going to get a weapon you could go to Home Depo). And if there is someone trying to break into my house well.......They plain FUCKED UP. But what I read is only shoot them inside your house for legal reasons(unless that changed I have no knowledge about it).

P.S. Go rifle, you can hit em from a far if War comes to our(MY) country. And its easier to kill food(worse case senario).Shotgun for home defense. Aiming is not an issue.(fuck the movies with My NINE shit. Thats not realistic)
Flame on if you feel the insecurity. But I am being serious here.

[Sputty]

I voted no guns at all! Word domination will be easier if my army of Schopebulbs only have Bill Gates to fight! Also, I think guns are useless to people. Get rid of guns and then find the people with the guns and put the in prison or take their guns. Then theives and people who want to keep their stuff have to duel with swords! But I actually think gun are useless for personnal defense or use.

[Lexington_Steele]

I just want to be able to own a Heckler and Koch MP5. :tear:

[Revolution]

I would like the HK G3A3 personally Lexington! :D

[Toimu]

Same topic, different site.

http://forums.jossh.com/showthread.php?postid=141276#post141276

Originally posted by Patroklos
If everyone who got pissed at someone had a gun within reach, do you think that would mean more or less shootings in the US? If you knew that anyone you argue with, yell at, or cut off on the freeway had a gun with them, would that make you feel safe?

If your acking like this, don't complian if you get shot or your ass kick.

Originally posted by Patroklos
I'm all for stricter gun control; if you're a peaceful law-aiding citizen, why should it bother you that you have to wait a few more days for your gun? Who knows how many murders have been prevented because a would-be murderer couldn't get a gun on a whim?

Because stricter gun control means less guns for the law-abiding citizens.

When you go to by a gun at a gun store, they run you threw NIX (In the US). It's a program that checks to see if your a criminal. It will say Yes you can buy that gun, No you cannot, or You must be put threw another program. But if you go to buy a gun from an individual, they have to choose to go to a gun store and have you ran threw NIX or not. I'm all for making it mandatory.

What happens to someone who murders someone with a gun? How often do they get the death penaty? How often do they spend life in prison?

We don't need more gun control, we need law enforcement and stricker punishment!

Same topic, different site.

http://boards.swirve.com/board.cgi?boardset=utopia&boardid=politics&thread=136&spec=4767849

[Revolution]

I have to agree with T up there. Strict Death sentence punishments or what have you. But I do believe we all should have the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.(bear? bla I didnt do to good in english I dunno)

[Tobias]

I like guns. Personaly, i have a .22 semi auto pistol that is really tiny and fits snuggly into my jackets inside pocket when im going out, but then, I still rarely take it with me. I also have a twelve gauge and a sixteen gauge (i think) shotgun's that i got for hunting but have never used as well as two daisy pellet rifles and a daisy pellet rifle that i use for target practice. I think most people should own guns, heck even my great grandma, bless her heart packs heat (and is the only one in my family besides myself that i can think of that does, strange old bat, that one). If you knew everyone around you had, say, a .44 snub you would not see so many school shootings, cause those people would know they would be dead secounds after they drew.


and rememeber, as i once herd while playing CS


Cap j00 ass like it aint no think, w00t w00t.

[mistled]

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
I just want to be able to own a Heckler and Koch MP5. :tear: Hell yes, I love the H&K MP5. Of course, I like all of H&K's stuff.

[SandTrout]

I would like to fire an mp5 or styre TMP. I've read a lot about them and they seem like they would make good personal deffece weapons. The TMP is small enough to strap to your chest or leg, and draw quickly. The MP5(dependeing on the version) is more of a carbine that you would have out when expecting trouble.

My dad owns 2 .22 rifles for target shooting, and a shotgun for in case of someone breaking in(its happened twice before, not while we were home, thank god). I'm going to try to get an H&K pistol(looking at USPs) when I'm old enough. Criminals can get their hands on automatic weapons easaly enough, so I want to have something to defend myself with.

[Tobias]

Sand, get yourself a Glock, its an all around easy to use and mantain gun, accurate, and has a good rate of fire. Also they come in sevral differant types. However, i dont think you will ever have to use it to shoot someone, or i hope not. If someone breaks into your home, even if you have a gun, the best thing to do is get out and call the police, because, unless they could harm your loved ones, your stuff is not worth your life, and if you dont practice, its good to assume that they are alot better with their weapons then you are with yours.

[AlkaliNe]

:doh: i dont wanna read that...jeezus:domotwak:

[SandTrout]

I hope I wont use it to shoot anyone either, and I will practice with it. Haveing a gun an not knowing how to use it is just stupid.

I might get a glock, but I think there is some US law that prevents civilians from importing "High capacity" handguns(AKA: guns with maggazines larger than 10 shots). If I can get one, I probably would if you recomend it.

I'm joining the airforce as soon as I'm out of high-school, but dont know if I will be able to get a Glock or USP for myself with more than 10 rounds.

[Lexington_Steele]

You get the same gun, it is just the clip has a spacer so you can only fit 10 rounds it. :(

However you can legaly buy larger clips through transfered ownership of the clips. :)

You can also order the larger clips through soldier of fortune magazine.

[SandTrout]

Thanks for the info, I'll rember to check it out when I get a gun.

[Toimu]

I have a Glock 19C. Great gun, but don't get the C version if you only have 1 hand gun. (The compensator port is in the top of the gun. So you can only shoot it once at night. Then all you see is a flash for the next few minutes.)

Cons about a Glock:

1) The price of the HC clips. You get two 10 round clips when you buy a Glock new, but a 15, 17, 19, or 33 round clips cost quit a bit. (This may be with all guns though) A 10 round Glock 19 clip cost ~$30. A 15 round Glock 19 clip cost ~$70.

2) Glocks have polymer frames, so they are lighter. Lighter guns have more recoil.

3) Only after market safeties. Glocks have no safeties on them. Other than a trigger safety, but that keeps the trigger from getting caught on something and firing. The trigger safety wont keep kids from firing them. I heard Glock is coming out with a key lock safety that will fit inside of the grip behind the clip.

Pros about a Glock:

1) About 1/3 the parts compaired to a Colt. Less to break, less to clean.

2) Tight sights. I've used a hand gun that the front sight were ~0.5mm smaller than the space in the back sights.

3) Internal hammer. The slide and trigger are the only moving parts on the outside.

4) You can beat the crap out of them, not clean them often, and they will still fire. Got to love that.

What I try to do before I buy a gun, is fire it a few times. Find a friend that has it (the guns I have and want are because I shot my friends and liked them. But then between 5 friends, I have access to ~200 guns.). Also, alot of shooting ranges will rent guns to you.

[Navaron]

Trout,

Don't get a glock. Especially as your first gun. Don't get me wrong they're good weapons, but do a little background on them. Their quality has really gone down lately. Almost all law enforcement and specF don't use them at all. Toimu, would know more than I, but the negative I've heard is too much. It seems to me, that they have let themselves go since they got so popular in the movies and rap. It's like Reebok.

I'd say get a H&K .40. You'll have a solid damn weapon, reasonably priced, you can do work on it yourself. Medium kick with maximum stopping power. If you get it weighted out, you can reaquire fast as lightning. Best pistols out there IMO.

If you're serious with home defense, screw a pistol. You'll lose in a pistol match. Get a shotgun. You don't have to worry about precision, you're less likely to penetrate a wall, and he's more likely to give up or run. With a pistol he has a chance, with a shotgun, he's "proper fucked".

Remember, smaller caliber, faster fire - lower acquire. A 9mm will kill anything just as dead as .50.

If you're set on a pistol with accuracy, and you've got the change for it - get a Kimber. Best 1911's ever.

Here's some links...
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/civilian/uspframeset.html
http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/Law.htm - the mariner is a beast
http://www.glock.com/pistols.htm - look at the .40s
http://www.kimberamerica.com/opening.htm

[Lexington_Steele]

I would also reccomend a Walther, Taurus, or a Smith and Wesson.

http://www.waltheramerica.com/main.html

http://www.taurususa.com/

http://www.smith-wesson.com/

[Incompetent]

I dont want to get into this again but suffice it to say, i think you should be able to buy a gun, but you should have to work your ass off to get it. (lots and lots of tests to make sure you know how to handle it correctly)

Personnaly, when i move out, i'm getting an FN FiveseveN.

[Navaron]

I saw a Taurus raging bull in a pawn shop the other day for 140. I don't know which one it was though. Damn that's a good deal. Damn thats a big fucking gun. Damn it sux.

[Tobias]

And one thing that anyone who owns or plans to own a gun should do: Take a gun safty course. Most gunshops can tell you were you can take one, around hunting season there are lots going on. Not only will it help prevent you from hurting yourself, but the instuctor can teach you how to clean and mantain your weapon as well as how to preform simple repaires.

[Lexington_Steele]

What I wouldn't mind is a course in converting semi automatic weaponry into fully automatic weaponry.

[SandTrout]

Thanks for the info guys, and of course I would take a safty course, and so would my kids, I don't want them blowing their brains out, or leting their friends handle my guns.

I've been doing research, and H&K looks like it has some good solid guns. A pistol is for personal defence, a shotgun is for home defence. I might get a rifle for hunting, if I ever take up that hobby. 9mm or .40 look like good choices at this time. Accurate, decently powerful, and you can reaquire fast.

.50 pistol is just nuts if you ask me. Only carries 7 shots, excesive recoil, and weighs 5lbs. Not ideal for a personal defence weapon.

[Navaron]

.50 cal is a joke. No one, and I mean no one, can use those things effectively. If you hold them sideways like a "gangsta" you'll snap your wrists like a little girl.

I'd say get the .40 if you live alone, or the 9mm if others are in the home. A .40 is a big ass slug. It has all the stopping power you'll ever need (It cuts frozen water jugs in two with a simple double tap).

[Toimu]

I have a Mossberg 12 gauge. Very nice gun. If you get a shotgun, never put a pistol grip on it. You cannot aim like that, and even with 8 shot, you still need to aim. Shotguns are cheap. You can get a good one for <$200. They make shotguns that only take 2.75" shells. I'd make sure and get one that takes 3" shells, they will also fire the 2.75" shells.

In my hand gun, the first 3 bullets are hollow points. You don't want to be killing your neighbors, they might be your back up. Plus you want knock down power. A 9mm hollow point will put someone on their ass a fast as a .40 slug.

No one will laugh at you if you walk into a gun store and say "I don't know crap about guns, but I want to take a safety course, and by a gun for what ever."

[Sputty]

How old do you have to be to buy a gun in the U.S.?

[Lexington_Steele]

21 for a pistol, I am not sure how old for a rifle.

[AlkaliNe]

sputty on the low low...come to my house ill hook you up:sniper:

[Sputty]

It seems really really easy to get a gun in the states. Almost funny. No offense, it just seems really really easy to get one. Also, for now I don;t need a gun. Give me a few weeks and I'll find use for one. :)

[Lexington_Steele]

It is really easy, I had my first pistol at 18.

[Sputty]

Heh, sorta funny when you think about it.

[AlkaliNe]

yea but who needs guns when u have Schopenbulbs :blowup:

[Sputty]

Yes...and?....I wouldn't want Schopebulb's robbing banks or what have you. They vaporize 30 mile radiuses(or Radii but radii just seems wrong)

[Toimu]

Posted by Toimu
When you go to by a gun at a gun store, they run you threw NIX (In the US). It's a program that checks to see if your a criminal. It will say Yes you can buy that gun, No you cannot, or You must be put threw another program. But if you go to buy a gun from an individual, they have to choose to go to a gun store and have you ran threw NIX or not. I'm all for making it mandatory.
18 years old for a gun with a 18.25" berrel, 21 for anything under that.

[Tobias]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
.50 cal is a joke. No one, and I mean no one, can use those things effectively. If you hold them sideways like a "gangsta" you'll snap your wrists like a little girl.

I'd say get the .40 if you live alone, or the 9mm if others are in the home. A .40 is a big ass slug. It has all the stopping power you'll ever need (It cuts frozen water jugs in two with a simple double tap).


Hehe its stupid to hold anything but a revolver sideways (pistols that is) because when the shell caseings come out they are gonna hit you in the face. And .50 cal's and .44 magnums are a bit pointless aye.