The NC Jackhammer. The last straw.

[TeraHertz]

Today I was defending a CC when an NC literaly burst through the door, almost flying throught the air DIRECTLY towards my crouched postion which was offset from the door. The speed at which the enemy burst though appeared to cause lag on my pc. With ONE SINGLE SHOT I was killed, before the enemy even touched the ground. I am one step away from Heavy armour. I didn't even get off a round due to the lag. The fact that the NC appeared to know my exact position is a matter I will deal with below, but my biggest grievance is the single shot from the shotgun. What the f***. ONE shot? No other empire has anything like it. The NC have better armour, the best close range anti infantry weapons (since most infantry engagements are inside structures, a bit of an advantage dont you think), and the best tanks - so they have the best anti armour too.

Its been suggested that the NC are the dev's pets, and I'm reluctantly begining to belive it.
(http://planetside.station.sony.com/screenshots.jsp all the first offical screen shots depict heroic acts of the NC....odd)

Fix the god damn shotguns please. At least reduce their effective range. Lancer vs Jackhammer, jackhammer wins - the lancer shots are easy to dodge and the jackhammer shots travel far.




My OTHER gripe is this. While hacking the CC there were massive expolsions of multiple boombers going on around me right next door. I wondered what the hell was going on. The explosions were right on me. I thought nothing of it and continued hacking.
When the NC burst though and killed me with a snigle shot it struck me. HE didnt burst though the door and turn to hit me, he burst through the door directly towards me, at an angle from the door. He KNEW where I was. I surmise that the boomber explosions were an attempt to kill me through the wall. How or why else would anyone set off explosions dead on me from another room when I was in two different positons. My point? Wall hacks seem to be about, and im not the kind of person who cries cheat just because I get shot up.

[Acaila]

Alright.

What do you mean NC have better armour?

[sutserikeru]

yes, the TR seem to have massive wallhacks and speed hacks as well. My comp just got a massive upgrade, no lag. This TR came bursting thru the door (no DL) tunred around, shot me up with MCG. I wasnt moving. And it looked like he fucking went thru the mall (thru the 2nd floor). Also I was surging to a base, and a NC Reinforced armor who wasnt using surge (didnt hear that heart beat sound) zipped by me like he was in a Mosquito. I know that lag does this some times, but i didnt see him fly back behind me like it useually does. I also caught up with him after i got to the base... hacks? yes.

[sutserikeru]

Alright.

What do you mean NC have better armour?
Ive seen that you can nail an NC with 20 Lasher rounds and they dont even drop thier health at all.

[BadAsh]

Tera,

For a while I kept a pad on my desk when playing. I�d jot down what I was killed by. Jackhammers account for about 39% of my total deaths in the game.
The Jackhammer is a powerful weapon to be sure. So I studied it and compared it to the other heavy weapons.

I think it�s primary advantage is that it�s a �hit scan� weapon. That means there is no bullet travel time factored into the weapon. I play TR and my heavy weapon, the Minigun, is NOT a hit scan weapon and neither is the VS Lasher. So we have to lead a target to get a good direct hit if they are strafing side to side even in close quarters. When battling a player with a Jackhammer they have that distinct advantage. I have to anticipate their movements and lead my shots. They don�t. All 3 heavy weapons will drop a stationary target at about the same rate/speed.

My solution to the problem? Hone my prediction skills and full my locker with Jackhammers. I love using them against NC. I love this especially when I flank a NC firing position. Most NC in the area don�t react to hearing the Jackhammer fire they assume it�s a �friendly�. Only when they see their teammates dropping like flies do they notice something is wrong and react. The end result is usually I flank a group of 8 and kill 5 or 6 before they take me down. If I try that with my Minigun I have a less effective weapon and once I fire it�s like sounding an alarm �TR HERE!�.

BadAsh

[SecondRaven]

The jackhammer has been under the spot light ever since they nefed the Lasher....I do see a slight problem in the JH ya it can take your health down fast but just think if you miss with that 3 shot burst and you have to reload and then you're are a sitting duck to a mini gun or a lasher..

[TeraHertz]

yes, the TR seem to have massive wallhacks and speed hacks as well. My comp just got a massive upgrade, no lag. This TR came bursting thru the door (no DL) tunred around, shot me up with MCG. I wasnt moving. And it looked like he fucking went thru the mall (thru the 2nd floor). Also I was surging to a base, and a NC Reinforced armor who wasnt using surge (didnt hear that heart beat sound) zipped by me like he was in a Mosquito. I know that lag does this some times, but i didnt see him fly back behind me like it useually does. I also caught up with him after i got to the base... hacks? yes.


I've seen people walking though the wall on the second floor of bases in the stairwell on the way up to the CC. People from my own team. I assumed I was either seeing things, or my PC wasn't drawing a door that was there or something. Since you've seen it too maybe its a bug? I've already had an out-of-map expericance when I was blown through a door way seam by a vanguard. It ended with a splat, so I'm not sure if they ARE no-clipping through the walls, otherwise they'd just fall into oblivion?

[Cryptica]

JH is pretty ripped. I dunno about all the talk about hacking and stuff. I mean, if someone is hacking a CC, no DUH they're gonna aim directly for the CC first. I think it just may have seemed like they were cheating, but in reality were just darned good players.

[TeraHertz]

JH is pretty ripped. I dunno about all the talk about hacking and stuff. I mean, if someone is hacking a CC, no DUH they're gonna aim directly for the CC first. I think it just may have seemed like they were cheating, but in reality were just darned good players.


uuum, no, maybe i didnt make myself clear. I went into the room, sprayed it with gunfire. Waited for the door to close, sprayed it again to make sure there were no cloakers. I started hacking the CC and explosions went off right next to me on the otherside of the wall. (I could tell by sound). I completed the hack then crouched on the right of the door. Explosions went off right next to me on the otherside of the wall, so I crouched hard up against the unit opposite the door, to the right. I dueley pointed my gun at the door and got ready. You know the rest.

[Veteran]

Exploits exist that would make you throw your keyboard at the wall. My suggestion is to treat PlanetSide like video poker. Each spawn is a gamble. Some gambles end poorly (in some cases, no doubt, because of exploiters) and some go well. Once in a while, you get a spawn that just kicks ass. Those are the ones you should play the game for. Base hacks come and go, but it's those extra sweet moments that make it worth it. For honest players, those times, as rare as they may be, are the sweetest reward the game has to offer.

Why I'm bolstering the courage of a Vanu I'll never know.

[BDMJ]

There are many things left unanswered here. If the NC had an interlink facility, the NC could have seen you moving to the cc on his radar. This would also be the case with audio amp. Regarding the explosions, I have no clue why they were doing that. Also if you lag, what is one shot to you is 3 shots to the enemy. Zero ping code makes sure that you take three shots, it's just the way the game works.

[TeraHertz]

No, they had no interlink, and he cant have heard me when im stationary with full stamina could he?
As for ping I run rings round most people my pings so low. How low to the werner server im not sure. I'll need to do /stats. In BF1942 games my ping is 25 ~ 30 in combat. There were only two of us that I know of in that facility becasue I was the foreward scout out of the VS sanctuary trying to a secure a second base from which to launch an attack from. We were already attacking through the south warpgate, while TR and NC fought each other in the center.

[Katanaboy]

The jackhammer has been under the spot light ever since they nefed the Lasher....I do see a slight problem in the JH ya it can take your health down fast but just think if you miss with that 3 shot burst and you have to reload and then you're are a sitting duck to a mini gun or a lasher..
you dont have to reload after the three shot burst. It just takes about 1.5 seconds to "ready" it again.

I think it�s primary advantage is that it�s a �hit scan� weapon. That means there is no bullet travel time factored into the weapon. I play TR and my heavy weapon, the Minigun, is NOT a hit scan weapon and neither is the VS Lasher. So we have to lead a target to get a good direct hit if they are strafing side to side even in close quarters. When battling a player with a Jackhammer they have that distinct advantage. I have to anticipate their movements and lead my shots. They don�t. All 3 heavy weapons will drop a stationary target at about the same rate/speed.
And this is what i hate about the jackhammer. The fact that zero leading is required. It is just point, click, and as long as your crosshairs were somewhere near the enemy they got hit. Also, the fact that it is a shotgun means it is completely unaffected by CoF. Crouching, standing, walking, jumping, its spread will always remain the same. Fire more than 2 seconds with a chaingun/lasher and you get a huge 2 inch circle on your screen. And I know some people will counter by saying "but the lasher lashes, so you can spam and no matter what they'll get hit". The lash doesn't do nearly as much damage as a direct hit, and direct hits are hard to get when out in the open.

[Veteran]

As for why the explosions, maybe the guy's aimbot was tracking him through the wall. If you don't know what an aimbot is, don't ask.

[Cryptica]

Ready it.... reload it...there is still a time where you are a sitting duck

[TeraHertz]

It takes a full magazine from the lasher to kill somone on full health. We all have to ready and reload our weapons. The JAckhammer gets about 16 shots. As proven today, every single one of those shots can kill. Jackasses, sorry jackhammers, don't need to reaload nearly as much as a lasher carrier. So what's your point about everyone being sitting ducks? If thats a an attempt at defence of the Jackhammer, sorry but

V
V
B

(you'll have to try better than that)

[1024]

stop whining and play the game. it can't that overpowered, or half the pop would be NC and we would have 5 conts locked all the time.

[Bismarck]

It takes a full magazine from the lasher to kill somone on full health. We all have to ready and reload our weapons. The JAckhammer gets about 16 shots. As proven today, every single one of those shots can kill. Jackasses, sorry jackhammers, don't need to reaload nearly as much as a lasher carrier. So what's your point about everyone being sitting ducks? If thats a an attempt at defence of the Jackhammer, sorry but

V
V
B

(you'll have to try better than that)

Lol, lasher will kill a full health rexo in alot less than 20 shots (full clip).
The tri burst will kill any thing in one shot, but its hard to get most of the pellets to hit its target. I dont mind aim-botters, that just means they suck and they wont know I'm there before theyre dead.
JH isnt all that people crack it up to be. And you guys who said NC and TR cheat, yeah sure, every single one of the thousands of people cheat. Get real.

Use agile + sweeper + surge, it'll take down most JH users, unless you totally suck.

[Mognoc]

Here is what happened to you with the jackhammer (I have not read all the other posts here) you had the lag, so it seemed like he shot you only once, but in reality, he shot you with the 3 shot burst, which *can* kill an Agile if all three hit. You had lag and therefore didn't hear all of the shots. (Just my interpretation) :D And 20 shots with a lasher not dropping health at all? Maybe in your own little dreamworld, and maybe if you were shooting a MAX on standard bullets (Non-AP). I get killed by lashers all the time. Besides, most of the time I get killed while using the JackHammer is when I'm running up close so I can actually HIT my target with it, I'm running up to be able to actually hit them and then I get mowed down by the other guy when I'm just running at him. And you don't hear us NC bitching about how the Lasher wielders can kill you by shooting the ground, do you?

[Strak]

My 2 cents on it. Why do a few VS players carry lashers, and why do practically all NC guys do. I mean I come around the corner and see like I estimated 15 NCs coming down in rexo and I think ahh crap and click the screen shot. I go back l8r and count 8 NC in rexo coming down the stair, 6 carrying jackhammers, I can't recall seeing that many lashers going off in one place.

The Shotgun effect is another point I can survice long enough with a supressor to put a fair # of rounds into a chain gunner cause I circle the guy, with an NC jackhammer. Nope. Death instantly. The thing fires stupidly fast.

As for a ready time of 1.5 seconds where he is a sitting duck...you mean like every other weapon. Oh wait we have to actually reload and that takes like 2 seconds so.....We kill a guy, wait 2 seconds to reload, kill a guy wait to seconds to reload, kill a guy wait to seconds to reload. the NC go BOOM, ready 1.5 BOOM ready 1.5 BOOM ready 1.5 BOOM.

No other empire has a gun that can stand against it in close combat as far as I am concerned. Nothing else pisses me off more than jackhammers.

[SecondRaven]

If you hate the jackhammer so much go complain to the Dev Tera

[Kikinchikin]

JH sux IMO. I use all the other HA weapons before it. Don't get me wrong I dislike the weapon, but it is a valid weapon. I'll use it too just for variety, but i love my MCG more than the hammer or even the lasher. Maelstrom, thats a different story.

/me huggles maelstrom

[Phaden]

1. There is no way that someone originally said that the NC all cheat. Thats crap, and you know it.

2. I dont se the Jackhammer, never have, never will. Its just not my style.

3. Im NC and i think the surge agile armour is a little cheap.

4. NC has better armour you say? Where can i get some. Oh and BTW, that little health/armour bar, thats just a health bar. So you have no idea what damage its doing to the armour. And yes, a lasher kills you plenty quick.

5. Lashers not being used as much? Maybe so, check dicepoint. But take note, when my outfitmates and I (many of which have Jackhammer/HA) get in the "shit" They pull out the lashers and spam right back. Sure you can tote that off to variety, but personally i owuld rather have a MCG or a lasher, im more of a long range guy.

6. 1024 stop whining and play the game. it can't that overpowered, or half the pop would be NC and we would have 5 conts locked all the time.

Oh wait, did i not just see NCbeing the population with the least? Oh i guess i must be imagining things again. And its not like they have dropped from pwning all your whining asses, to actually being competitive.

7. Aiming at you before he came in? Its been explained already but let me reiterrate: Audio Amp. Why do you think cloakers have such trouble since they show up on map with interlink facil? Thats because people like me( a cloaker myself) watch that map. And next time you come in a CC room, you better not aim where you had the last enemy contact or ill rant and whine as well.

8. I think i got everything.

[Veteran]

Surge is what is breaking Heavy Assault. Remove that from the game and all the sudden the game isn't nearly as cheap. I honestly believe that Surge is single-handedly ruining PlanetSide for lots of people.

Seriously, Surge is cheap. Big time. So a huge percentage of NC use Jackhammer. The more pertinent fact is that all of them that are br6 or above use Surge. All of them.

[Phaden]

But see, then theres people that use surge instead of vehicles. Like infil suits who need to get REALLY CLOSE tot here targets to take them witha pistol. And the speed is very useful for dodging reaver missles in any armour, or just plain escaping from something.

I totally understand Veteran, why your saying what your saying and i do support it to a degree, but i think that infils have had it hard enough.

[Rarzo]

Ok, well it's obvious that we always go with our empire. So, I want to see one NC say that they think the JH is unfair, and I want to see a VS or TR say it is fair.
The JH has the advantage of fast firing strong bursts

The Mini-chaingun fires very fast and bullets

The Lasher has ummm... uhhh... When you fire it, it lights up the room? Well, other than that it doesn't do much...

Lets say you put 3 peaple in a small room. Each person has one of the 3 heavy assault weapons. The people all are equally good. The winner would obviously be the man with the JH. Now, if you put them far away in a large field. The JH would die quickly and The TR and VS would duke it out. And thats my opinion on the subject...

[Kikinchikin]

I am TR. Jackhammer is fair. I don't like it, but its on par with our MCG and the VS lasher. If you are getting killed way more than you are killing, you need to hone some skills. I play all three empires and I actually like the MCG most, perhaps because i play TR much more than all the others, or more likely because it suits me more. I have stopped looting weapons for the most part, if i can get a safe place to do it I will, but I no longer risk my life for a JH or lasher, altho i will for a maelstrom :)

Edit: and you are wrong about the room thing. The lasher guy would win, because of the lash damage. He would just need to fire continously and strafe. However if one of the other two did not die after the first clip, then whoever was left would win

[Hamma]

No good can come of threads like this.

If you ask a VS or NC about the MCG they would tell you its uber, if you ask the TR or VS about the jackhammer they will say its uber. If you ask the TR or NC about teh lasher they would say its uber.

Its all about what empire your on, unfortunatly thats what it comes down to.

As for the NC being the devs pets, I dont think so. At one point people thought the TR were the devs pets. Fact is they play all empires - what good would they get out of making one empire uber.

[MuNsTeR]

first of all, the NC is based on brute force, and also the lasher can lash so you dont have to lead the target as much.. the mcg is the only one that i think takes some skill

[Katanaboy]

first of all, the NC is based on brute force, and also the lasher can lash so you dont have to lead the target as much.. the mcg is the only one that i think takes some skill
Just try getting direct hits with the lasher in combat outdoors...just try. And i happen to love the MCG, in my opinion its the one that is most balanced, finally.

[BDMJ]

In response to TH: If you moved at all prior to crouching, he would know your position. Audio amp triggers off of almost anything.

[JuSTCHiLLiN]

These types of threads should be on the offical boards not here.

[Ait'al]

first of all, the NC is based on brute force, and also the lasher can lash so you dont have to lead the target as much.. the mcg is the only one that i think takes some skill


Its depends on your style of gameplay. And th fact that if your even saying that in htis situatiion you have not even begun to have taken in all the styles in the game IE mastered anything! This game has many different styles of gameplay(in this case weapon use) incorporated and you must learn them all and more to have a real grasp on anything. In the old days this is the sort of things us, what you would call "ultra nerds" who had been gaming for more that 10 years than all of you, knew as newbies(not to be mistaken with the modern usage.) Anything resembling mastering anything even remotely game oriented involves knowing eveything about the games in general(not just one game or something as simple and pathetic as an FPS) especially game design! And real game design not i put a gun in here so you shoot with it! Those subtle things that newer gamers have not yet learned to appreciate that used to even make up entire Genres of games. Think the rest up yourselfs. And yes i know newbie was not used that much then it used to just be a lite hearted joke! That isnt quite the word i was thinking of but it works!(This is to everyone)

Bassically you just have to learn more about the game and not let yourself setle on thinking youve learned everything before you have.

Its sad i havent heard anyone try to uphold the old game standards in like 10 years! The internet used to be a freindlier place than the outside world.

It used to be impossible to join a game thing anywhere and not be flooded with what you needed to know.

People used to hate this "were a community we do what we like thing" The idea of calling something a community outside of all gamers in general was appalling.

What happened to strictly encouraging new people too?(yea, yea, great place to state this, but....) Its like people dont even remember it anymore.

rules: #1 New people (usualy said newbs, this being before it was a cruel word) have respect for veterans.
#2 Veterans be kind to all new people.(newbs like above) Usually stated more elaberatly than this.

That used to be the staple of every set of rules on hte internet. Hell htey were the strict foundations of all rules back them. The only ones in many cases.

I wonder where everyone from back then went.

This world has fallen so far in the last ten years.

[Veteran]

Funny how people will attack each other's Heavy Assault weapons instead of own up to the fact that they're milking Surge. When it gets nerfed/removed you'll have to change your playstyle anyhow, so you'd might as well admit it now and have an intelligent discussion about your problem.

My name is Veteran and I'm a Surgeaholic.

See, not so hard.

[SilverLord]

Agile. MCG. Surge. Kills the Rexo JH no prob, just don't get close to him and back up when he tries to get close.

[SecondRaven]

Funny how people will attack each other's Heavy Assault weapons instead of own up to the fact that they're milking Surge. When it gets nerfed/removed you'll have to change your playstyle anyhow, so you'd might as well admit it now and have an intelligent discussion about your problem.

My name is Veteran and I'm a Surgeaholic.

See, not so hard.

Heh i agree totaly....

[IronWolf]

Me = love MCG

it may take skill but i think it could be the best of all the three

I ask you, when there is a tower fight and everyone cowers in the stairwell waiting for a miracle(or a plasma grenade) i just run up the stairs and out. weaving past all the MAXs and tanks and going for the juicy unaware guys in the back, it always gets me killed but then i always kill 3 or 4 guys.....

as for exploits in the game, i have made it my business to find as many as i can
(not to use) and there is one that can be used in the CC of tech plants to see through walls

PS.. There is a HUGE exploit in the Tech plant entryway, i always wonder how anyone hasent used it, walk around the tech plant well in third person. im sure there will be two postions were you will be complety invisible, in my early days i would anchor a pounder there and mow through a zerg of guys without them knowing, i am saying this not to brag of how i once cheated just that i want these promblems fixed

[FireZ]

Agile. MCG. Surge. Kills the Rexo JH no prob, just don't get close to him and back up when he tries to get close.

Because of the clientside hit detection anyone with surge on with less than Reinf exo can warp through you, apear on the other site, look like they ran through a wall. I had someone jump off a ledge and appear to go fall through the floor and then I died...(this is not be cause of my pc 2.4c/1gb 3200 ram running at 800mhz with a Geforce FX 5700).

The only way to fix this is to not allow a weapon out when you use surge. I mean max's cant use their weapons when they run...Either that or only allow the HA weapons to be used in Reinf exo.

[flypengy]

#1: TTK is better on MCG than JH so if you're whining about the JH... stop... because the MCG is now more powerful than the "noobhammer".

#2: The cool down time for the triple shot is very long... after you do the triple shot you are a sitting duck for a long time, you might as well be reloading.

#2: It is very hard to kill someone with the triple shot, especially in laggy battles like I'm sure most of you play. After you have missed with that shot you have more than ample opportunity to kill the person since they can't shoot for a while.

#3: The lasher can kill someone in 4-5 shots. (Not the 20 that your no aiming selves do). The same conditions to make all the pellets hit someone with a JH should make the lasher orbs just as easy to hit someone. (close quarters). Out doors the JH will have an advantage because it doesn't have to deal with near the travel time that orbs do.

#4: The JH is not a point and click weapon. You do have to lead your enemy. That rumour needs to be dispelled. You don't have to lead as much as the lasher or the mcg... but you do have to lead.

#5: The JH was nerfed. It's near impossible to kill an agile in 2 shots like it use to take. And just as hard to kill a rexo in 3. The MCG was boosted and the JH was nerfed... sorry... this sounds like a bunch of whiners that don't know how to lose...

#6: Aimbots... just please... stop... I refuse to even comment on something so ignorant. This isn't CS kiddies... get over losing.

[Acaila]

OMG HT HAX0RZ! :p joke

[InfiniteStorm]

I'll take my lasher over the other two anyday. I will take it in a hallway fight over any other weapon. If there are 5 guys down the hallway, I just fire and the lashes hit all of them. Outside, that's a different story. I have to lead by 5-10 at any sort of range. If they are zig zagging, good luck.

As far as surge, I don't mind it. I think they could fix it like some other people suggested by saying you couldn't fire when it is on like MAX's or another fix is not being able to use HA in a agile. Rexo should be the only ones able to wield the HA. Those are two fixes that could possibly work.

[BadAsh]

#4: The JH is not a point and click weapon. You do have to lead your enemy. That rumour needs to be dispelled. You don't have to lead as much as the lasher or the mcg... but you do have to lead.

To point #4 in your post, I did some testing with a surging buddy in agile armor. I had a Jackhammer and was able to score instant hits from several reasonable distances. Perhaps if you are trying to snipe with the Jackhammer you might have to lead. But if you are within the killing range of the weapon any leading you may have to do is so miniscule to be unnoticeable.

I hope this point and my other post in this thread do not come across as a flame or as a whine. It is not my intention to flame or whine. One of the things I enjoy about games like this is the process of analyzing enemy strengths and weaknesses. This way I know what to look for so I can frustrate the enemy by denying them their strengths and by exploiting their weaknesses. And here I am merely discussing the strengths of an enemy weapon that usually (by statistics I gathered) dominates me in battle.

Consider the following scenarios:

A TR in Agile armor equipped with the MCG and Surge implant vs. a NC in Agile armor equipped with a Jackhammer and Surge implant. For purposes of comparison I�m assuming equal player skill and even computer performance and connectivity (lag).

1. The TR manages to sneak behind the NC, he opens fire with the MCG. The TTK is such that the NC has a chance to turn around and get a triple blast before he dies. Who wins? Probably the TR, but the NC has a chance.

2. The NC manages to sneak behind the TR, he opens fire using the triple blast. The fight is over, the NC counts his experience points and the TR selects a respawn point.

3. The NC and TR see each other at the same time and they both cut loose. If the NC has triple burst selected, fires and hits, the NC wins. If the NC misses, he loses. This is a gamble to be sure but the NC is in the position to make the gamble. Things are pretty even here, but I�d give the advantage to the NC. If he feels comfortable making the triple shot he can. If not he can slug it out normally.

4. The NC and TR see each other at the same time and they both cut loose. But this time the NC has normal fire mode selected the odds are about even until you factor in the near instant hit capability of the Jackhammer vs. the MCG. If both are Surging and firing the NC has the advantage because the TR has to have superior prediction skills. Again, skill even, the Jackhammer has the advantage.

My buddy and I figured all of this out using our 7 day PS free trial. I tried VS, then TR, and then NC with a focus on heavy weapons usage/preferences. I ended up deleting these characters and going with TR because they suit my style more. Automatic weapons are just cooler. :) Though, my kill/death ratio was better with the Jackhammer. It's not all about the killing. :)

BadAsh

[aiwest420]

It takes a full magazine from the lasher to kill somone on full health.
:domotwak:



4-5 shots for agile, 5-6 shots for reinf (direct hits)....

[Madcow]

Almost nobody uses the secondary mode for the JH, it's not worth the hassle when you can just hold down the trigger and chew people up without having to worry about that delay time after the 3 shotter.
Discussing the TTK for the JH/MCG is a bit misleading as the MCG having the faster TTK is based on hitting with every single bullet. If there is any movement going on at all, the MCG user is blooming like a mother and the JH user isn't blooming at all, and there's no way the MCG user is hitting with every bullet like that.

With all that being said, I think that HA is the most balanced it's ever been. I used to loathe the JH and it's still effective but it's no longer head and shoulders above all the other HA. For the first time since launch you can say that each HA has it's strong points and area that it will excel in but that they're fairly balanced. I'd prefer if they didn't keep tweaking them, HA has had enough adjustments for a while.

[Kuraltai]

Several good points made here. Thought I'd toss in my 2 bits (inflation).

I used to hate the JH and Lasher, still cringe when I hear them, but I've learned to fight them and actaully manage to survive against the both that I can walk away happy. So I feel that HA is now pretty well balanced .. and no, I'm not certed in it. I prefer the cycler/sweeper. Will swipe a Gauss if I have the chance. :D

What I don't like is fighting the surge monkeys, and they exist on all empires. I'm usually in Rexo or Max and cuss every time I run into one because I can't keep up with them. Occasionally I'll get lucky and survive, but it's not often .. gotta practice more. :D

[EVILPIG]

#1: TTK is better on MCG than JH so if you're whining about the JH... stop... because the MCG is now more powerful than the "noobhammer".

#2: The cool down time for the triple shot is very long... after you do the triple shot you are a sitting duck for a long time, you might as well be reloading.

#2: It is very hard to kill someone with the triple shot, especially in laggy battles like I'm sure most of you play. After you have missed with that shot you have more than ample opportunity to kill the person since they can't shoot for a while.

#3: The lasher can kill someone in 4-5 shots. (Not the 20 that your no aiming selves do). The same conditions to make all the pellets hit someone with a JH should make the lasher orbs just as easy to hit someone. (close quarters). Out doors the JH will have an advantage because it doesn't have to deal with near the travel time that orbs do.

#4: The JH is not a point and click weapon. You do have to lead your enemy. That rumour needs to be dispelled. You don't have to lead as much as the lasher or the mcg... but you do have to lead.

#5: The JH was nerfed. It's near impossible to kill an agile in 2 shots like it use to take. And just as hard to kill a rexo in 3. The MCG was boosted and the JH was nerfed... sorry... this sounds like a bunch of whiners that don't know how to lose...

#6: Aimbots... just please... stop... I refuse to even comment on something so ignorant. This isn't CS kiddies... get over losing.


EXACTLY.

Thanks for saving me the typing Pengy.

[Gigabein]

Here's a fix. Each time you shoot while surging, the Implant would drain stamina. HA could be something like 40 stamina per shot. MA, SA, Sniper and Standard could all be various lesser amounts. If you also implement the requirement of Rexo to use HA, then the stamina drain for shooting could be way less or entirely done away with.

[flypengy]

Sorry. You can say you don't have to lead with the JH all you want, but for it to be used as effectively as you all complain about; you must lead with it or all the pelets do not hit.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Pengy hit it. Nice work.

MCG and Lasher own. JH? Dropped HA and set up all my favorites with the sweeper. I can hit targets at a greater distance and the pellet spread is much, much tighter.

[BadAsh]

Sorry. You can say you don't have to lead with the JH all you want, but for it to be used as effectively as you all complain about; you must lead with it or all the pelets do not hit.

Perhaps there is more lead time needed than my limited testing revealed. Also there are other factors that come into play here� ping/packet loss and computer power (processor, memory, video card). So that may be some of the reasons we are seeing different results.

However, I can tell you from my vantage point that if an agile surging JH gets about 6 �feet� from you the lead time on the MCG is about a �foot� in front of the fast moving target. At this range with a looted JH the results I get are pretty much point and click. So with both players dodging and weaving it�s a pretty heavy JH advantage. It�s much easier to nail a surging agile with the JH. If the target is not surging the JH and MCG are about even.

Personally, I like the JH the way it is. I would like to see the MCG have a little less lead time factored into the shots. It just makes sense to me as typically a rifle round travels much faster than the pellets from a shot blast.

BadAsh

[Peacemaker]

I really didnt read the whole thing because it sounds like something I could go read on the OFs, the same post about the same gun being better than all the rest. Plenty of times ppl walk through a door and are pointing right at you. Its just a matter of odds. The JH isnt overpowered they nerfed the damn thing. The Lancer is an AV weapon idiots, its not for killing infanty, the Lasher is the equivilant for the JH.

[EVILPIG]

Sorry. You can say you don't have to lead with the JH all you want, but for it to be used as effectively as you all complain about; you must lead with it or all the pelets do not hit.


Not that all the pellets hit with the spread anyways, but to the point.