Phoenix

[Madcow]

After the balance pass on AV weapons the complaining has gone down about the Striker and to a lesser degree the Lancer (the only real complaints there were about it's effectiveness against soft targets). As I've been playing VS MAXs lately, I've had an opportunity to see the other side of the Striker and even in battle I pay little attention to the missile locks as it will take a while to gun me down like that. I do try to time jump jetting to get the Striker missile to fly past, but not much beyond that and trying to break the lock.

I have to say after all of the balance passing that the Phoenix now holds an interesting position as the top of the heap in AV. I rarely get cooked by Decimators, but the Phoenix seems to take me down more than it's fair share of the time. It's not a good weapon in every situation, but in base assaults it's just about perfect. The scenario goes like this: The VS hold a base, I spawn in and get my MAX armor. I walk out the door to the base into our 'safe' courtyard. A Phoenix missile comes over the wall and hits me before I'm really out the door. 400 armor left. Now the missile user knows where I am and another missile is on the way. I quickly duck behind cover and the next missile misses me, but he has seen me as he flew past and knows where I'm hiding. I make my way to the next hiding spot, if I time it wrong I'm hit again. 150 armor left. I jump jet to the wall to make sure I'm as far as possible from where he last saw me and somebody else's Phoenix happens to be skirting the top of the wall and hits me. Dead.

A good Phoenix user can stand at a distance from a base during an assault and use these things non-stop with few misses (I'm looking at you Ananomaly, and I hate you). If it's a big zerg, it's near impossible to make it far enough out of the base to take them out. I actually got the infil suit cert specifically on my VS char to try and sneak out and AMP Phoenix users while they're standing blind.

By the way, this isn't meant to bitch about Phoenix strength. I'm not concerned about it being overly powerful, I'm just impressed that it became the most effective AV weapon so 'quietly'.

[Spee]

Oh, I love, and still do love the phoenix. In bio lab assaults I used to fire missiles up, see the gen door open fly it around the console and into the gen :D



Sniper missile!

[Doppler]

My biggest complaint witht he phoenix, and indeed all of AV is the ammo issues. Yes were effective against maxs (not so much inside with the phoenix) but against tanks, turrents and hard targets it is space prohibative to carry enough ammo to do anything more then scratch targets. Thats where the phoenix takes a nose dive in usefullness. A phoenix carries less killing power in the same number of ammobox's (plus whats in the clip) then any of the empire AV weapons. My other complaint about the phoneix is if i'm in standard arming up to stop a max camping the spawns and I pull a deci out i'm good to go, the Phoenix 1 missile is more or less useless. What i'd like to see is either bolt action on it, or a mess ammo pouch along the side like i use for my hunting shotgun. Thats just me though.

[Biohazzard56]

I personally think phoenix sucks

[Incompetent]

The only thing I really hate about the Phoenix is that people actually complain about it. When you really think about it, the Nix is handheld artillery, nothing less, and yet people still bitch about it because it can't go head to head with a MAX. How can they justify complaining about the only weapon in the game that can reliably kill outside of your line of sight for no better reason then it doesn't stand in as a decimator as well.

[JF-Wolf]

Everytime someone mentions Phoenix I always think they're talking to me.. :rolleyes:

[NoSurrender]

I used to love it but got tired of it and decimators stealing my kills. Madcow do u have any idea on emereld how many maxes the VS have? There is a isane amount of VS maxes. I'd bet that they have more than the TR and NC put together. Yes both TR and NC use maxes but it seems with the VS that every other person has a max. Srry i offend you or anything im just tired of gettin killed by Vs maxes on my HOMECONTS!!!

[Madcow]

Doesn't offend me, Emerald and Werner are the only servers I don't play on. If there's that many VS MAXs, how can you not cert in the Phoenix? Stand on the other side of a hill and watch your kills rack up as there isn't much that can hurt you.

As for the power of the Phoenix, in a way I agree. It's the same with the AV MAX suits though. Planetside seems built to make sure you need a boatload of anything to hurt a vehicle. Any of the AV MAXs will have big problems with anything but the smallest vehicles unless there's a lot more damage being done than just what the MAX is bringing. 3 shots to kill a MAX is pretty darned powerful, especially when you're good at shooting that thing. Did I mention that I hate Ananomaly?

[Rbstr]

Teh peonix pwns yous guys!

Yeah i always said the pheonix has its potential. but i think it could use a little more speed of reloading so i could be used indoors regularly, not the special case dumb alone maxes.

But it needs a bump against TAnks and the like, NO change to max damage thouhg (if thats possible)

[JetRaiden]

it needs a 2-missle clip. thats all.

[BadAsh]

The primary strength of the Phoenix is not in stopping power per shot. It�s about the ability to strike targets that are initially out of sight of the shooter. This is extremely powerful!

During a siege of a base with vehicle terminals open in the court yard just get yourself a AMS (for reloading) and a Phoenix. Then park the AMS on the far side of a mountain over looking the base and pound the vehicle terminal. With the Phoenix a single player can deny the entire enemy force the use of vehicles for the duration of a siege.

The only genuine complaint that the NC have is this is the ONLY weapon in their arsenal that requires a little thinking and finesse to use to it�s full potential. So it does not fit with the NC creed. You can�t just walk in with overwhelming brute force and obliterate your opponents with little or no skill/effort like with other NC gear (Gauss � best MA, Jack Hammer � best HA, Vanguard � best Tank, etc).

NC has the best AV, but apparently it�s not good enough until it�s a 30 shot fully automatic Decimator with radar locking capability.

BadAsh

P.S. If you noticed some sarcasm there your spidy sense is right. :) I just like giving the NC some crap. :)

[bryan25]

What do u set your mouse settings,sensitivities to get the most turning campability out of your Pheonix?

[Kikinchikin]

i used striker for a long long time. I got about 500 max kills from like july to september. Then i went cloaker, they nerfed it i went back to grunt and got SA. in only 2 or so weeks of casual playing as a grunt i have at least 75 max kills with deci.

bottom line
pre BP- striker > all
post BP- Deci>all

[WritheNC]

I love the Phoenix. I'm never uncerting AV.

Its just too versatile; even when a max is shooting at you, if you are medium distance away all you have to do is walk behind a tree and shoot around it. What's he gonna do? Go into run mode?

Also, its good when you see the lights on vehicles flicker, and they're trying to get back behind the base wall to repair, you can snipe them.

Its the only AV that can circumvent a shield module while being on level ground with a base.

[Koopa]

Bah. Pheonix sucks, compared to the Striker and Lancer, primarily Lancer. A weak missile that comes in clips of 1. Eh? Plus, since the Pheonix missile guide takes so wide turns, it's kind of hard to guide it.

[Katanaboy]

Teh peonix pwns yous guys!

Yeah i always said the pheonix has its potential. but i think it could use a little more speed of reloading so i could be used indoors regularly, not the special case dumb alone maxes.

But it needs a bump against TAnks and the like, NO change to max damage thouhg (if thats possible)
But the lancer is somewhat difficult to use indoors, too. CoF bloom (which thankfully got reduced) and delay in firing mean that you might be dead before the first shot even comes out. Twitch is useless for lancer due to the bloom, unless you are sniffing the MAX's ass, in which case you'll probably be dead in a few seconds.

I think the phoenix is fine the way it is. In base assault it rapes any max that walks outside, and since much more NC use it now, vehicles dont last absurdly long, as driving outside will attract about 5 phoenixes, which doesnt take too long to kill the aforementioned vehicle.

[Doppler]

[QUOTE=BadAsh]The primary strength of the Phoenix is not in stopping power per shot. It�s about the ability to strike targets that are initially out of sight of the shooter. This is extremely powerful!

During a siege of a base with vehicle terminals open in the court yard just get yourself a AMS (for reloading) and a Phoenix. Then park the AMS on the far side of a mountain over looking the base and pound the vehicle terminal. With the Phoenix a single player can deny the entire enemy force the use of vehicles for the duration of a siege.

The only genuine complaint that the NC have is this is the ONLY weapon in their arsenal that requires a little thinking and finesse to use to it�s full potential. So it does not fit with the NC creed. [QUOTE]


You've never used a phoenix before have you, for starters why the frag should I have to haul an ams around for an ammo supply. Secondly, the range of the phoenix is considerably crap and it's turn ratio make shooting over base walls and then angling back down somewhat dicey at best. Secondly shooting a phoenix at a vehicle term is more or less worthless because even if i could find your hypothetic mountain overlooking a base the enemy could get a vehicle term repaired in the time it takes me to reload. TR are just bitter about the fact their striker actualy has to be pointed at the target now to hold a lock. I mean their used to being able to shoot in the general area of the enemy and circlestrafe it to death. Or shoot near it like their pounders.

[Veteran]

Any NC worth his salt will drop Special Assault for Phoenix thanks to the new dumbfire mode.

NC now has tons more AV troopers.

[Kikinchikin]

heck that thing annoys me when im trying to snipe.

takes i think 4 or 5 missiles to kill a reinforced trooper.

[Madcow]

TR are just bitter about the fact their striker actualy has to be pointed at the target now to hold a lock. I mean their used to being able to shoot in the general area of the enemy and circlestrafe it to death. Or shoot near it like their pounders.

You're funny. You accuse him of never using a Phoenix and then go on to give a laundry list of urban legends about the Striker as if they were fact. The Striker always had to be pointed at the target to hold a lock, the only real differences are that you can't dumbfire a Striker and get a late lock now, and you can't reload or you'll lose your lock. Circlestrafe a MAX with a Striker? I'm sure it could have been done, but I never saw it. You were able to kill a MAX fast enough with Strikers that unless they were on top of you it wasn't really a concern. Shoot near it like Pounders? The Striker has/had almost zero splash damage, you may be confusing it with the Decimator.

The Phoenix isn't overpowered now, but it is the best of the AV certs.

[BadAsh]

You've never used a phoenix before have you, for starters why the frag should I have to haul an ams around for an ammo supply. Secondly, the range of the phoenix is considerably crap and it's turn ratio make shooting over base walls and then angling back down somewhat dicey at best.

AMS? You are right, with scores of rockets per box there would be no reason to have an ammo supply, you can carry all you need. Oh wait, its only 3 per box....

Turn ratio? Again, you are right. The turn ratio is SO crappy there is no way the Phoenix can shoot over a wall and hit any target like a fixed and stationary vehicle terminal. All those posting here about mobile moving MAXs getting owned inside base walls are all TR and VS propaganda agents spreading LIES to discredit the NC!!! :)

Secondly shooting a phoenix at a vehicle term is more or less worthless because even if i could find your hypothetic mountain overlooking a base the enemy could get a vehicle term repaired in the time it takes me to reload.

Repair faster? Hypothetic mountains? Again, you are right... NO BASE IN THE GAME has any mountains or rocks or slopes that would provide cover for an AMS within Phoenix range... and we all know the Phoenix damage is so light that it's basically just a flare gun letting the enemy know where you are. In fact no MAX, Vehicle, or Terminal has ever been destroyed with a Phoenix. Again, the TR and VS propaganda machine is in full swing...

BadAsh

P.S. I'm just givin ya crap man :) Basically I completely disagree with your post, the Phoenix is VERY effective as geting over base walls and taking out targets of choice... sure it takes a few hits, but you are hitting from a position that no other weapon in the game can hit from.

[GeistX]

Everyone may complain the Phoenix is weak alone, but I never see Phoenix users alone, they travel in roving wolfpacks (which is very smart). In most of the VS (defend) vs NC (attack) base sieges, it is fun to watch the mini-map and see the swarm of Phoenix missiles that are constantly floating over the base. Any MAX that steps outside is toast, anyone trying to use a Vehicle term is toast, the air support has to keep dodging (people have failed the mention the Phoenix can be deadly against air due to the no lockon warning). The snipers can't get the Phoenix users because they are behind trees. Very effective. The snipers have to watch out as do the engineers roaming the walls because the Phoenix can get them behind the barriers and in cover (granted a single missle won't kill a grunt, but it will make you move).

[Queensidecastle]

My NC char is the only char I have AV on. The phoenix sucks at actually killing anything but it is an absolute menace (it ownz MAXs but you have to compete against all the Decimator users). Much like the above poster said, you are never contending with one Phoenix user and so vehicles are destroyed quite efficeintly. The only kills you hardly ever get tend to be MAXs and the odd aircraft or lightning. Tanks and heavy buggies I almost never get kills on. They always are blown up by mines, decimators, or other vehicles. Phoenix's can terrorize the vehicle pads of bases and that is really nice, and you can even see and follow other Phoenix user's missles to see what they shooting at.

This weapon sucks by itself but is balanced with the fact that it is very fun to use and is deadly in groups (always the case)

EDIT: cool, sgt major now :)

[Ait'al]

You've never used a phoenix before have you, for starters why the frag should I have to haul an ams around for an ammo supply. Secondly, the range of the phoenix is considerably crap and it's turn ratio make shooting over base walls and then angling back down somewhat dicey at best. Secondly shooting a phoenix at a vehicle term is more or less worthless because even if i could find your hypothetic mountain overlooking a base the enemy could get a vehicle term repaired in the time it takes me to reload. TR are just bitter about the fact their striker actualy has to be pointed at the target now to hold a lock. I mean their used to being able to shoot in the general area of the enemy and circlestrafe it to death. Or shoot near it like their pounders.


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Its a weapon like the modern RPG stuff(not the RPGs, the guided ones we have.). they have to haul around trucks to get more than a few shots. It only makes sense and its a nice way to encourage everyone not to try to make everyweapon a powerhous. and for the angling thing ahve you tried firing at a higher angle and then redirecting it back down after its at an angle you can see inside the base. You could get 50 Pheonix users at a front a of a base kneeling down all of a suddon(with other things attacking) firing at a 75 degree angle aboove the base and raining pheonixs down in things inside. I imaging taht would be pretty damn affective. As long as they learn how to coordinate shot so 50 of htem odnt hit the same target. (like after the innitial simultaneous firing(for looks) angling there missles at differetn angles to see everyone elses and letting a few of htem lead the way and hte others picking off what didnt kill or wasnt targeted.) That would be one hell of a frightening site.

and like i said i think it makes sense for one or two pheonix users to need an ams. Once you get 3 or more and enough space dedicated to ammo you should have lots of firepower, which i think is the design. the AMS in this case is a nice thing they added to allow you to use one on yoru own or with only another person. Its the point of having put a mobile refilling station in hte game. 8)

And if your on your own cant you just get a nice spot hide in the cloak and fly a missle till you find a base and just fire missle after missle at a base 500 meters away. You can always fly around the base and hit htem form the opposite side your firing form and make it impossible to find where you fired from. If you kep the missle low to the ground untill you get on the other side and then fly it up to get the right angle to hit stuf in hte base. You could get a freind and do that all day long and make them look like there coming from every side of the base and confuse the hell out of them.

Im going to steal lots of these things or make an NC character just to try it. lol

[ZjinPS]

I think the entire category of weapons should be renamed. Anti vehicle is somewhat misleading. It should be anti-max. MAX are about the only thing you can effectively take out with them. If you can catch a beat up Lightning or Harasser you may take one of them out. You are pretty much wasting ammo on the big boys, Vanguards, Prowlers and Magmowers..

This changes a bit if you are with 2 or 3 more AV cert holders. But most armor will simply mow you over or pound you with the cannons before you do much at all.

Long story short, don't worry about taking out heavier vehicles. Unless you have advanged targeting and know they are about to explode. Save your AV ammo for MAX's. You'll do more good there.

I keep a striker with me most of the time, even if I only carry a light load of ammo for it ( 5 or 10 rounds) Its still enough to take out atleast 1 MAX.

[Ait'al]

Cant you just get a squad of Pheonix users and hide in an ams cloak somwhere and fly pheonix missle around like plains and fire on stuff when you find it. You could fly them in formation and let the leader pic targets and just follow his missle when he strikes something and then hit something else real quick if its destroyed(like leaders drives into something then the next guy after he sees impact then the next till stuff is destroyed). Would it be that hard to learn how to find the squad of missles again after you fire on into something and get back in formation with a new missle?

[ZjinPS]

Ait'al,

The only thing about that is, the actual flight is pretty short. Im not exactly sure, but I'd guess 8 to 10 seconds tops? Kind of hard to fly in a formation and pick targets. But hiding in a AMS sphere and firing them out sounds like a pretty cool idea. I don't know if you could see enemy thru the target finder thingy would work tho.. seeing as you cant see people on the opposite side of the sphere. But it would be worth trying.

[Ait'al]

Well then i think they should increase the flight time of the pheonix to like 5 minutes. 8) If thats not enough increassing its speed(either flat out increase or letting you have some control over its speed with a higher max speed that it has now.) or increasing hte flight time or both.:D

Im going to be Vanu and id love the challenge. And if the missles cant be shot down they should change that too. that way you could have a chance of blowing htem out of the sky.8)

It would give some sort of individual base threat wich would be very nice to have id immagine. That way you have to make some defense plans besides just mass stuff for zergs. Like mosquito squads to take them out and detect them.:brow:


if they cant see out the cloak they always have audio amp. So you can tell when enemys are near and you dont fire out it when ther right there adn give yoru possition away etc. It could be the new staple of Pheonix user Implants. 8)



Demand that the Pheonix has what i just said. 8) Bug the devs day and night till they give in! I want to face those in game!

[Spee]

WTF? Phoenix hard to use? Please.


It takes some practice, as do all weapons, but once you're good, and luck doesnt hurt either, you can stealth-fly missiles. Find a door open to a staircase to the top of the base walls, fly it up there, fly low along the ground, and smack a MAX in the ankle.


True, you could just pilot it over the walls, but no one goes "HOLY SHIT! WTF was that!?" when you do it un-stylishly.

[Veteran]

NC can park an AMS in any courtyard and be relatively sure that guided missiles aren't about to come over the wall from behind a hill 200 meters away and blow the AMS to smithereens.

If you're NC, try to imagine how big a strategical element that is. Nothing else compares.

[Koopa]

The Pheonix is good, in a sense, but it doesn't kill. It hurts a little, but doesn't kill. It takes four Pheonix missiles to down a Reaver (I went in VR). Three to down a Skeeter. I think three to even down a Harasser. All the Pheonix needs is either a damage buff or put it in clips of two.

</rant>

[Doppler]

First off if you fire a phoenix from within an AMS bubble your essentialy blind. Second off the phoenix flight timer is short and the thing doesnt turn worth crap. I'm not saying the phoenix is a bad gun, just like all AV weaponry the fact that it's inherantly less effective then the decimator bothers me. This is compounded in the phoenix case considering its a one round clip. Realisticly for 3 cert points SA gets 4 fucking weapons, one of which is the best max killer in the game and the only one that can actualy per shot make vehicle drivers wince. AV gets a weapons system that it's basic argument is it can either strike from distance with precision, or change target in flight. Lets assume a phoenix user carrying three boxes of ammo, they get 10 shots including th one in the clip, if their using agile their infentory is basicly full, if their in rexo, they got enough room for i think 4 ammo sized box spaces, not cool. A SA deci user carrying that same effective space worth of decis (1 in the weapons slot, 2 more in inventory) has nine shots providing aproximately 40 percent more killing power. This isnt just a problem for the NC but all AV users.

[Doppler]

On carefull consideration i wohuld like to see AV users either get access to decimators or it be moved over to their weapons class exclusively.

[Ait'al]

People are looking at the weapons damager from the viewpoint of them on there own. They werent all designed to be used singly. You cant and dont want there design to change because it will throw off the whole game balance. You just have to learn what they were designed for and relearn your views of them and learn strategies for them that work. How much Xp you get for useing them in the right numbers was no doubt part of there design when they were tested for balance.

[Doppler]

I just have said it before and Ill say it again, why does an av troop who spends three cert points (6 counting rexo) have to have many many buddies aroudn where as a reaver trooper (3 points) with the new air towers be totaly self sufficent.

[WritheNC]

Nothing else compares.

But we're not relatively sure a few MAX's will jump the wall and start shooting people while they're acquiring equipment, either...

Which means TR kinda get hosed in the "Tactical weaponry that circumvents base walls" department.

And you're right. That is pretty important.

[Phaden]

Well reading the squabbling is not for me so i kinda fast forwarded. Heres my story:

Im on NC Emerald, and am basically a Grunt, Infil, Gunner. I have had SA since i started the game maybe 4(?) months ago. Just today i picked up AV. In the fights in Cyssor today (god they lasted FOREVER!!!) i was one of a medium amount of people using phoenix's. In the tower battles there is always 2-4 people firing out of the roof doors. On the battlefield, when i got in close to the base, i was using almost strictly the phoenix, with plenty of ammo. My only other gun was a decimator. I actually had to use it to kill a couple cloakers (teehee. and yes i know, other guns alot beter, but i was filling a role). I def can see that some people complain about the damage, but its NOT a Deci. It never is meant to be. But come on NC, its GUIDED!!! You can sit inside a tower and fire out right before the doors close, and you are SAFE. I love that i can scout with it, even hear the noises. I can give reports when nme's are creating vehics or just hit an AMS that is under alot of cover. The reload time? I have NO sympathy with anyone who complains here. That thing IMHO is fast reload. Compared to Deci!, come on hands down.

Moral of the story:
Just from me having it one day, i think i will be keeping it. It is just SO versatile, and i can keep myself out of harms way. The only thing i have to worry about is cloakers and of course snipers. I love long range combat. i have sniping and love it to death. I think that the phoenix is a great weapon for specific applications. Im NOT taking it base or tower swarming in the hall ways; A Deci is MUCH better in that respect.

But to hear other empires comment negatively on it, i honestly have no beef with anything out there right now. i think almost everything is balanced to the point where i dont get pissed at one single vehic or weapo cert or empire. Alot of people are always gonna vote that there empire has the weakest weapons. But everyone that rallies anti NC think of this. The NC used to DOMINATE constantly on Emerald. I dont see that happening anymore. Perhaps its because we have the balance correct?