A terminal hacking idea

[BadAsh]

I think it would be cool that if you hack a terminal at an enemy base you should have access to their equipment. So if I�m a NC hacker and I hack an equipment terminal at a TR base, I should have access to TR equipment like the Cycler and MCG. If I hack their vehicle terminal I should have access to their vehicles like the Prowler or Marauder.

This would make getting enemy gear easier and add a little variety to your standard equipment selection. Also, it would add another incentive to attack an enemy base� equipment raids!

This really gives you nothing that an advanced hacker or simply looting can�t already provide. You can jack enemy vehicles and anyone can loot a fallen avatar. This would just make things more available and give a few more options in game play.

Also, it would help with real and perceived game balance. Everyone feels this or that weapon is better and the same is true with vehicles. With easier access to enemy gear this will be alleviated somewhat without breaking empire �style� integrity.

Finally, it just makes sense to me. I never understood how I could hack a VS equipment terminal and get my Cycler and MCG out of it� Is it not a VS terminal? How am I pulling TR gear out of it? :)

What do you think?

[Veteran]

It's an awesome idea with support from the majority of players, but the devs steadfastly refuse to adopt this clearly superior approach to equipment distribution.

Maybe in the future. I know a lot of players who would return if this became reality.

Good idea.

[Jagd]

:doh:

[infinite loop]

I couldn't agree more, it would be really cool. It's been suggested multiple times, but haven't seen any dev response on it. But I wouldn't take it too far, like being able to get enemy maxes or vehicles. That would totally ruin balance, and too easy to exploit. But temporary access to enemy weapons would be fun.

[Veteran]

If you can explain just exactly how getting a Quasar MAX if you're TR is going to unbalance things, I'd like to hear it. If 'game balance' has to strangle obvious avenues for the advancement of the game, I say screw it and take the chance that people will really love the change.

[infinite loop]

Well I think you'd see people cert in things that they wouldn't normally, just so they can use the enemy's equivalent. It kinda takes away from the point of having separate empires. If you want everything available, why not just go one step further and make everything common pool?

Plus, I can see how exploiting of this with vehicles would be bad. Take for instance, a base behind your lines that is enemy controlled. Instead of hacking it, you just blow the tubes, and constantly hack the veh term for their vehicles. Not taking the base is counter-productive, and opens you up for unnecessary counter-assault there. Plus what happens when a friendly player comes in and hacks the base or blows the gen, and gets TK'ed endlessly? I don't want to add anything that entices stuff like that to happen.

[BadAsh]

Personally I don�t see a problem with people getting a certification in something they normally would not. The Flail already falls into this category. You can only get one if you have the proper module installed. Though if the decision were mine I�d probably rework some of the certifications. For example I�d keep the 3 MAX certs but probably change them to category based (AP, AA, and AV) rather than be MAX specific so someone with the Anti-Personnel MAX cert could use any AP MAX dependant upon availability.

Also, I don�t see this as a problem with game balance. If one empire has better equipment THAT is your balance problem. So no game balance problem should be introduced by simply making various equipment more readily attainable to others.

I do kind of see your point about bases not getting taken over and people just using a crippled (spawn tubes blown) base to stage an attack of hacked vehicles. But you can already do this with your own vehicles. You can Zerg a base, blow the tubes, and hack a horde of tanks, reavers, etc. without having to take the base. So I really don�t see this suggestion as introducing this as a problem.

I don�t see many problems with this, but I do see some really fun battle variations because of this. Imagine the surprise when a platoon of NC captured Blue skinned VS MAXs jump the walls of a TR base protected by a shield module�

The more opportunities for fun on a highly coordinated scale there are the more you will see it. And to me, that�s what Planet Side is all about! ***61514;

BadAsh

[Jagd]

Yeah but it would seriously nerf the fun of trading weapons with enemies, and those awesome rolls you get on when you loot a jackhammer and get like 15 kills in a row. Making them easy to attain cheapens them, and goes against the entire reason for having factions in the first place.

[BadAsh]

Yeah but it would seriously nerf the fun of trading weapons with enemies, and those awesome rolls you get on when you loot a jackhammer and get like 15 kills in a row. Making them easy to attain cheapens them, and goes against the entire reason for having factions in the first place.

Actually, my "rolls" I get on about are about 4 kills... but, if you've seen my amazing skillz in action, I could see how you'd think it was 15 or more... ;)

[Jagd]

Yeah but that's cause you're on Johari. Last I heard there were only 4 soldiers per empire on there anyways. :eek:

[Kuraltai]

Yeah but that's cause you're on Johari. Last I heard there were only 4 soldiers per empire on there anyways. :eek:
:rofl: Johari is not as populated as Emerald .. no .. but we still have some good fights there. Just ask the VS on Oshur early this morning. We attacked from Ceryshen and NC from Hossin .. battle pitched back and forth for hours. NC and VS held more bases, but the battles were a blast.

[Koopa]

That would actually let people complete their training list, by being able to try out the MAXes.

[Headrattle]

Devs have shot this one down a few times in the OF.

[Ait'al]

I think it makes more sense along those lines to only get common pool stuff.(lets say it disconnects there connection to the enemy comp and cant access how to make them.) And only allow you to get yoru own equipment if you have bases close enough in the LLU that it would make sense. If not no Empire Equipement for you. And they could make logical things like hacking a vehicle/weapon bases terminal in an enemy base of that type could get you ther EQ but under the same circumstances as they would have to get it if they walked up and asked it for EQ. So 5 minute timer or whatever for maxes. And only in the proper bases. Something else but i cant remember GGRR. Oh yea and the enemy would still have to have control of the base adn not have its ownership being be in hack condition.

What would those be anyway. I know vehicle has a building. what would be teh one for weapons and maxs. Tech?

Im getting at teh idea of having all stuff you get form hacked terminals based on what the enemy would have. Or what you could logically get.

If you make it really hard for them to get it it could work out. Only under very few conditions could you get enemy stuff and the enemy could just learn to put more defense in that place. Obviously this would have to have alot to make it hard to do but...

[Warborn]

I think they're disinclined to acquiesce with this idea because they don't want Empire specific equipment to be so easily acquired by enemy Empires.

[infinite loop]

Personally I don�t see a problem with people getting a certification in something they normally would not. The Flail already falls into this category. You can only get one if you have the proper module installed.

That's not the same thing. The flail is common pool. I agree it is difficult to get at times, but anyone can if they want to.

Though if the decision were mine I�d probably rework some of the certifications. For example I�d keep the 3 MAX certs but probably change them to category based (AP, AA, and AV) rather than be MAX specific so someone with the Anti-Personnel MAX cert could use any AP MAX dependant upon availability.

I don't know if I understand you here. Are you saying that all 9 MAX units should simply be common pool? If so, then again, what's the point of having 3 different empires? Maybe you're just saying again that you should be able to get enemy maxes at hacked terms? If so, you wouldn't have to rework any certs for that, besides possibly modify their descriptions.

Also, I don�t see this as a problem with game balance. If one empire has better equipment THAT is your balance problem. So no game balance problem should be introduced by simply making various equipment more readily attainable to others.

Well that's a whole different can of worms right there. The prevailing argument, whether or not you agree, is that the game is balanced by overall empire, not by each cert. For example, say the MCG is better than the lasher. But perhaps the Quasar MAX is better than the Pounder MAX. It's not a one-to-one balance, it's overall empire balance. The ONLY way to offer true one-to-one balance is to have everything available in the game to be common pool. If that's what you want, I understand your argument. Otherwise, mixing it up so that it's all common pool some of the time is just a bastardization of balance and won't work. BTW, I'm against making everything all common pool, it defeats the fun of the empires.

I do kind of see your point about bases not getting taken over and people just using a crippled (spawn tubes blown) base to stage an attack of hacked vehicles. But you can already do this with your own vehicles. You can Zerg a base, blow the tubes, and hack a horde of tanks, reavers, etc. without having to take the base. So I really don�t see this suggestion as introducing this as a problem.

You're missing my point here. There is obviously nothing wrong with hacking a veh term at a camped base and rolling out vehicles. I'm saying, if we could do this to get enemy vehicles, I can see this leading to bad behavior. I can see people camping an enemy base, with the intention of using it as a staging ground for getting enemy vehicles, and NEVER hacking the base. That's a problem. I've never once seen this behavior in game currently. Why would you camp a base and not hack it?

[FireZ]

This idea has been tossed around alot. We asked about this in beta....And maybe (seeing how they are fixing bugs from beta that are still out there) we will see some of these suggestions.

[Kenney]

If you wanna keep empires from not hacking enemy bases only the terminals for weapons...

-every terminal that can be hacked, can only be hacked once to obtain enemy weaponry.

-after a second hack, the terminal simply turns to your control as it does now.

-Put a timer on the terminal so it only lasts a certain time, making it impossible for an empire to just keep an enemy base unhacked for the purpose of their terminal.

-this would also be good for when your raiding a base, you hack the terminal, use their own weapons against them, then after some time the enemy weapons aren't available anymore

[Kenney]

One more thing...if you hack their terminal and the timer run out...when the base changes empire control, the terminal is re-set so it can be hacked for enemy weapons again

[Hamma]

I dont think this is a good idea, it ruins the uniqueness of the empires.

[BadAsh]

I dont think this is a good idea, it ruins the uniqueness of the empires.

I agree with your position Hamma,

I just would much rather see the factions/empires differ more in appearance rather than tactical capability. I think all vehicles and equipment should be the same �on paper� dealing the same damage at the same ranges with the same rate of fire. The distinct variations should be audio and visual. For example a TR tank should look completely different and even sound different from a NC tank and a VS tank, but they should be functional duplicates. At a glance you should KNOW what empire that tank is from, and hearing one rolling in the distance or firing it�s main gun should likewise be unique.

In this way players would be forced to make individual tactical gear choices that determine their effectiveness on the battlefield. As it stands the empire you choose makes these capability determinations for you.

To illustrate this, let�s say you have a base with a shield module installed and you are being attacked.

If the attacker is NC you need to watch out for foot soldiers passing through the barrier and you have to watch for enemy air power. However, if the NC have a battery of Phoenix AV specialists they have an effective means to clear out your courtyard of your MAX units and Armor. Also, keeping an AMS in the courtyard will be a challenge. The way for the infantry to enter and smash the shield module or hack the base can be opened.

If the attacker is VS you need to watch out for foot soldiers passing through the barrier and you have to watch for enemy air power. However, if the VS send a squad of MAXs over your walls to reinforce their infantry and air attack you can quickly find yourself in trouble. The way for the infantry to enter and smash the shield module or hack the base can be opened.

If the attacker is TR you need ONLY watch for infantry and air power. Defending the base is much easier because their �variation� left out a way for them to attack over the walls. So if you are defending your base, just keep an AMS out in the open nice and safe along with several tanks to obliterate any infantry passing through the barriers. And have a squad of anti-air MAXs and AV weapon infantry (also nice and safe in the courtyard) to take out any incoming enemy air. The way for the infantry to enter and smash the shield module or hack the base can NOT so easily be opened.

The point here is that due to tactical limitations the TR cannot really threaten a well defended base with a shield module installed. The NC and VS likewise have their limitations. I don�t really buy into this empire related strengths and weaknesses game design. I think the strengths and weaknesses of each empire should be defined by the skill, tactics, and leadership ability of it�s players and not the programming of SOE.

BadAsh

[Jagd]

What you are asking for is some cheap vanilla balance pass where everything becomes boring and interchangeable. I don't like the sound of that at all, and even with all the nerfs and buffs over the months I still think skill and tactics overcome the fact that one empire's HA weapon takes .3 seconds longer to kill than the others. Deal with it, it's part of the game. I was actually more annoyed over all with the balance pass because it's just like "Leave the guns alone, we are used to them now so let them be!!!"

I like that you have to use a different approach to play as VS than as NC. VS have to be quick and land hits on the move (I'm thinking tanks here), whereas the lumbering Vanguard can just park and soak up damage while it tries to land a few shells of its own. That adds such an awesome dimension to the gameplay. If the vanu just had purple orbs coming out that did the same damage, and it looked like it was hovering but handled like a tracked tank it would ruin the suspension of disbelief and take a lot of the variety (spice!) away from Planetside. God knows PS does not have unlimited variety in its gameplay to spare.

[BadAsh]

Jagd,

It is neither cheap or vanilla as it would provide many variations to tactics and game play...

In the tank example you used...

As the game currently stands if you want to play a heavy tank you have to play as NC. If you want to play a light tank you have to play VS. Tired of your light or heavy tank? Sure, just delete your character and start all over at BR1 and leave your outfit and friends behind OR join another world server with a higher ping, start a new character at BR1 and leave your outfit and friends behind (when you are playing there).

Or as per my preferance, if you want a light tank, meduim tank, or heavy tank, just get the appropriate certification and get one... gear/cert selection rather than empire selection is the theme of my preferance...

I just think it's a better way to achieve game balance. Of course a lot of people don't want game balance... they carefully selected their empire because of a particular advantage and they live by exploiting that... to them variety and a fair battleground are unthinkable...

So clearly I've given you the choice to either agree with me or be some type of cowardly design flaw exploiter...

Still going to offer a different opinion? ;)

BadAsh

[Jagd]

Yes, and not just because your logic is flawed. If you like the sound of massive damage per hit, you choose NC knowing that you will need to have good, consistent accuracy for those hits to mean anything. If you prefer using quick thinking and mobility to flank your enemies you choose VS, knowing that going toe-to-toe with your opponent is often suicide. If you love just unloading with as much firepower as possible and tearing your enemies to shreds, you go TR, knowing that while you can get away with less accuracy you will need a steady ammo supply to keep yourself in the fight. Every empire is filled with players who are there because they like the trade-offs, and know that they can succeed because of the pros, and despite of the cons.

As I have said already, this adds to the gameplay, instead of making it superficial like blue, red and purple tracer fire alone would do. I'm not going to get into a pointless argument about which empire is more powerful than the others because all empires have pros and cons going for them. That is the point.

Now here you sit, with your Private stripe and all, trying to tell me that I'm just out to exploit the balance of the empires? Like most PS players, I enjoy the empires' different play styles, and I have tried all 3 factions before settling on the TR and VS for my main characters. Can you say the same? Perhaps it's you who needs to think twice before offering such an ill-conceived opinion.

[BadAsh]

Now here you sit, with your Private stripe and all, trying to tell me that I'm just out to exploit the balance of the empires? Like most PS players, I enjoy the empires' different play styles, and I have tried all 3 factions before settling on the TR and VS for my main characters. Can you say the same? Perhaps it's you who needs to think twice before offering such an ill-conceived opinion.

This might help:

My comments you are referring to were sarcasm... I was making fun of flame types and the logic they use... and then you used it... sorry you took that the wrong way� it�s the inherent danger when posting sarcastic humor�

And speaking of faulty logic... how does you posting more here somehow give you wisdom and make your OPINION more valid?

If you disagree, say so and why. No need to flame, be rude, or try to validate expertise superiority through some invalid reasoning.

Play nice... or not... just keep in mind, how you play (read: deal with others) defines who you are far more than the # of posts you've made.

BadAsh Out! :)

[Jagd]

Don't try and lecture me, child. I called you on your troll, and you'll have to live with it. Trying to pretend things happened differently only makes you look silly, as does harping about "logic" while avoiding the actual topic of discussion.

Do you actually think I'm flaming you? This is more like a luke warm bath. Ready to venture back on topic?

[Hamma]

Stop flaming people, thanks.

[Jagd]

How are my posts flames? I disagree with the guy, and he accuses me of all sorts of nonsense.

[Flammey]

I dont think this is a good idea, it ruins the uniqueness of the empires.


Agreed. Although, they really gotta fix that disappearing-backpack-as-the-corpse-disappears trick/bug/annoyance.

[BadAsh]

Lol

[infinite loop]

BadAsh - I completely agree with Jagd, besides the flame stuff :D

I understand your side of things, but you can't argue it wouldn't make the game more vanilla by making those changes. One of this game's strengths is the variety of gameplay, especially weapons, vehicles, and playstyle. If you'll notice, I have characters of all 3 empires, and my goal is to max out all 3 one day. Some days I get tired of using the same weapons, so I login to another server and have fun with something different. If the weapons were all the same, the alternative would be for me to either not play, or play another game. I don't like that alternative.

Besides my personal enjoyment of having different characters, I really love the tactics involved that you described. I like having to react differently to my opponent, depending on their empire and weapon. It makes it so much more interesting than if everyone had the same shit. Honestly, I can't think of many successful games that have come out in the last few years that had the exact same weapons and vehicles for all sides. All the WWII games are very similar to PS, and people love those games.

Maybe you're just a deathmatch kinda guy, and that's cool. Just don't ask for PS to fit that need for you. Go play UT or Quake instead! Oh and btw, love the Army of Darkness reference in your name! :p

[Vis Armata]

I'll just take your Repeater by force, thank you.

[Ait'al]

remade hack system:

(empire specific weapons section)
-If hacking terminal of enemy base that does not have a base of your empire that is connected to it by a line in the base map thing, can only get common pool stuff.

-If there is one controled by your empire next to it you can get your empire specific stuff as well.

-After a normal equipment hack the common pool items will be available at all times with your empire specific stuff greyed out. Unless an Empire controled base is next to it. At wich point they will become grey or ungrey (become availabe/unavailable)as there is an empire base connected/or not after the completed hack/"as you look at the items list on the terminal".(For your Empire Specific items only)

-All other things that affect the hacking proccess apply.

Will post Enemy Empire specific items section later.