NoobHammer

[Scarecrowe]

Who came up with that stupid nickname? Its not that i use the JH and get the shits at people screaming NOOBHAMMER at me but its just a really stupid name. Whoever came up with it should be kicked.

[Sentrosi]

Apparently you just go the game. Lemme splain.

n00bhammer comes from the fact that, to most ppl, the gun is just overpowering. You can get it right off the bat out of VR. And, by the time you get to BR6, you can get the surge implant.

Jackhammer + Agile armor + Surge = quick death.

Also, apparently there is no skill to using a shotgun that has three barrels. Oftentimes a one or two shot kill will take down most infantry. Thus the nickname.

[Diddy Mao]

Probably these Two Disgruntled Tr :-D

http://www.planetsideimages.com/uploads/hammakillbox.JPG

And a MCG is Just Spray and Pay, Us NC actually have to Reload our Weps

[Cider_Ownz]

Taking down the noobs with the jackhammer isn't much of a problem...... it's those standart+surge+jackhammer mofos that get me down.

[Vernam]

Probably these Two Disgruntled Tr :-D

http://www.planetsideimages.com/uploads/hammakillbox.JPG

And a MCG is Just Spray and Pay, Us NC actually have to Reload our Weps

Hamma was only worth 11 xp lol :groovy:

[Veteran]

'tis the n00bt00b

But seriously, HA sucks. It denies your empire sufficient Tactical Support personnel and wears down your skill as you get too used to point-and-click killing. A good Thumper user or cloaker will out-skill them any day.

Without Surge and consequently PlanetSide's tendency to show people teleporting all over the screen, HA wouldn't be in vogue.

[Acaila]

I don't have HA, I get more kills than most grunts with a far better ratio. HA is 4 cert points, to me it isn't good value.

[Cider_Ownz]

Not true......... say it ain't so! SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!!!!

The reason I gave up the thumper for the MCG is the sound..... MCG is the best-sounding gun in the game. Thumper has the sound of a cat opening the interiors of an unlucky mouse, and the jackhammer has the sound of a dying animal of some sort, probaly a girafa.

Sweeper has the second-best sound in the game, but the MCG is just more..... cute! :huh: .

[WritheNC]

I use the sweeper. I found the JH to be unnecessary when you learn how to use another weapon.

All HA weapons don't really take skill; whoever sees the other first and fires first is often the winner in close quarters.

I tried JH last night again, and it just didn't feel sufficient for 4 points, and I think if you can learn to live with the sweeper you might look at it the same way.

I think part of it is psychological; when you have HA its "surge in, kill lots of people and keep firing!", and when you have an MA weapon, you're like, "Ok, I gotta use cover, take my shots when I can to make them count, and be ready for anything."

I can't really put it into words, but HA just seems so unwieldy and awkward imo.

[TeraHertz]

'tis the n00bt00b

But seriously, HA sucks. It denies your empire sufficient Tactical Support

Why does HA stop you getting Tactical Support.

*TeraHertz looks at his Tactical Support cert, and his HA cert and scratches his head.

[Flammey]

I doe-nah-no. Who came up with the stupid word n00b in the first place? I guess n00bhammer sounds better than Stupid-firsttime-players-weapon, or rookiehammer.

Should call it BoobieShooter, cause Two Shots to the chest will deflate you.

[Rayder]

All HA weapons don't really take skill; whoever sees the other first and fires first is often the winner in close quarters.

Obviously you've never used the Lasher. 20 round clip, dispenses that clip in about 5 seconds or so, slow reload time as with all HA weapons, not enough damage-per-shot to compare to the other HA (MCG has a high enough ROF to compensate for the low damage), slow projectile travel time, oooh, its got lashing abilities! the lashes do about 1-5 damage pending on where you are. Worthless when vs. other HA. Good against crowds. Accuracy is crazy, u gotta be crouching to actually hit something thats more than 8m away. Only useful at close range.

[WritheNC]

I use the lasher a lot with a VS character on Markov. Its actually my favorite HA weapon because it adds a very nice suppression role the other 2 don't really match.

And I don't think it takes much skill to use, but that's me; I played the Soldier class hardcore in TFC for 3 years, and those rockets don't travel much faster than a lasher bolt, so leading targets is second nature to me.

Also, I've always sucked with shotguns, which ironically makes my second best HA weapon the MCG.

[Black]

Hamma only is worth 11 exp cause he only lives for 3 mins cause so many ppl reconize him and tk him :p

[Rayder]

I use the lasher a lot with a VS character on Markov. Its actually my favorite HA weapon because it adds a very nice suppression role the other 2 don't really match.

And I don't think it takes much skill to use, but that's me; I played the Soldier class hardcore in TFC for 3 years, and those rockets don't travel much faster than a lasher bolt, so leading targets is second nature to me.

Also, I've always sucked with shotguns, which ironically makes my second best HA weapon the MCG.

Actually I think the rocket travels faster... but the Lasher is a Heavy Assault weapon, not a support weapon, but I get what you mean.

[InfiniteStorm]

I don't think you can say the thumper takes anymore skill to use than HA. I just started using the thumper and outdoors it is awesome. I don't use it much for indoor close quarter combat because I haven't gotten used to the grief and when to fire with it. I personally can't use the JH very well at all for some reason mainly because I am so used to the Lasher that I tend to lead too far when using it.

[BadAsh]

I think the term came from the frustration some players face in the game. Since SOE went for the artistic feel of 3 unique empires rather than pure game balance this sort of thing will always be an issue for debate. Each empire has it�s strengths and weaknesses and has unique equipment for that end.

The Jack Hammer is hated because it�s considered by many to be the most effective short range HA weapon in the game. Because it�s the most effective it�s perceived to be the deciding factor in many battles. This is bound to cause complaints, even if they are unwarranted. Some people just get owned and then rant about the edge their opponent may have had. The Jack Hammer is no highly unbalanced BFG of DooM fame, but it is a powerful weapon. In the hands of an expert it�s absolutely devastating.

My personal belief is that, skill being even, a Jack Hammer user will come out on top. My belief stems from the experience of getting taken down pretty consistently by a handful of elite Jack Hammer users. Each one of these players use a tactic that is my nemesis. There are a few close quarter fighting situations where the Jack Hammer is nearly unstoppable. And these guys take full advantage of this. To beat them I keep a locker full of looted Jack Hammers. With equipment even, my odds went from 90% of getting owned to about 40% against the same player.

This is just an inherent problem in a system where different teams have different capabilities. To gain the edge I can just figure out a tactic that you don�t have the capability to match. I then repeat this until you are frustrated enough to post about my �n00bhammer� or whatever�

BadAsh

[Rayder]

The other two empires have their strengths, but the VS got jipped on everything, having the weakest weapons and crappiest vehicles (oooh they can go over water). Eh, but I still play em cuz the other empires uniforms suck.

[infinite loop]

The other two empires have their strengths, but the VS got jipped on everything, having the weakest weapons and crappiest vehicles (oooh they can go over water). Eh, but I still play em cuz the other empires uniforms suck.

Umm gotta disagree wholeheartedly with ya here. The Lasher is an awesome weapon in some situations. It has better overall versatility than the other HA weapons. Have you ever tried to use the JH for suppression?

Ok, how about the MAXes? The VS MAXes are by far the best in the game. There's no way you could argue that one logically.

Next VS strength - best tank in the game. Not only is it the most versatile tank but, oh wait, that's the only argument I need. It can cross terrain better than any other tank. It can hit any other vehicle more effectively than any other tank, including aircraft. Not to mention it's strafing helps out the mowing factor quite a bit. Very powerful vehicle.

Don't get me wrong, the VS has weaknesses, but so do any of the empires. I really don't understand why alot of people see the VS as underpowered, because post-balance patch, they're not.

[InfiniteStorm]

Actually, the best thing about a mag is it can hold its own in almost any battle. If your driver doesn't try to be a hero and take out vanguards with the front cannon and lets the gunner actually do his job it is devastating. The reason I say any battle is because of accuracy of the guns. The are not inherintly powerful by any means but can be deadly with the right gunner.

My outfit and I were invading Cyssor the other night and we had 3 mags on assualt of a TR base to get in behind the NC while the rest of the zerg held Faro from the NC. After it was all said and done, the thing we tallied the most kills from was in fact......Reavers. Each gunner shot down approximately 6 reavers each along with 1 or 2 mosquitos. As the driver, I also shot down 2 reavers and when being the cannon gunner I shot down 2 more in a short time.

I would not say the VS is gimped in any way. The moral of the story is each empire has its strengths and you just have to know how to utalize each strength.

Also, I have to agree with BadAsh's noobhammer theory. Everyone gets fruhstrated when killed by the same gun an excessive amount. Even I get fruhstrated when a surge+agile+JH user is teleporting around my screen and kills me with no trouble. I learn to deal with it and respawn and try again.

[Rayder]

You wanna know why the Jackhammer isn't a good suppression weapon? BECAUSE ITS NOT MENT TO BE ONE. How does Heavy Assault get translated into Suppression? It kicks ass because its ment to. The Lasher is still weak compared to the other HA weapons. It should have at least 30 rounds, maybe a faster rof or faster traveling shots.

The Mag is a good tank, only if you have a good driver AND a good gunner. This goes with the other tanks as well, but more so for the Mag because of its weak armor, and the straight shooting cannon. Yes, the cannon comes in handy when hitting aircraft and you can hit tanks better with it, but it has no arc, and its not the most accurate thing in long ranges, its also weak. You must also note (if you've ever gunned a Mag before you would know this) that it is extremely sensative to elevation unlike the other tanks. A tiny little bump in the ground will fuck up your shot.

The Thresher is a joke.

Pulsar and Beamer.... they can switch between AP and normal, the Pulsar is a little more accurate than the other rifles, and the Beamer is the best anti-armor pistol. Still, they're weaker than the others.

VS MAX's are good only in the right hands. They're weaker than the other MAX's, but they compensate for the increased maneuverability which really doesn't help much when you've got 10 guys shooting at you. The weapon systems are much better now than before, only AV MAX that can take out another MAX with a full clip (the DC can too, but it takes so long, and thats only if every shot hits).

[Nimbus]

Yeah, I really think the problem witht he noobhammer is just the frustration by the quick deaths with it. There have been pleanty of times where I've opened a door and had my guts blasted out before I could react. It's frustrating but oh well. I'm sure the people with noobhammers are bitching about snipers when I've got my bolt driver too.
Noobhammers, by the way, are the primary reason for my attack methods. Generally in game you'll always see me in a vehicle, in a MAX or hiding somewhere with my bolt driver.

[Biohazzard56]

Probably these Two Disgruntled Tr :-D

http://www.planetsideimages.com/uploads/hammakillbox.JPG



:rofl:

[Hamma]

I don't like any HA, I think ti should all be nerfed. HA is overpowered in general, it sucks to die and not even have a chance to defend yourself.. one man should not be able to defend a tower.

[infinite loop]

I don't like any HA, I think ti should all be nerfed. HA is overpowered in general, it sucks to die and not even have a chance to defend yourself.. one man should not be able to defend a tower.

Nerfing is the root of all evil. All it accomplishes is to piss off as many people as it makes happy. Nerf HA and you'll see a large percentage of people leave the game. If you don't have a chance to defend yourself, that probably means someone did something to get the jump on you, and they deserved it. You have just as much of a chance to do that to someone else. And you're right, one man shouldn't be able to defend a tower. The only reason one can is that the attackers are tactically inept. Spawning one at a time and running in the tower won't work against a good defender. You have to attack in numbers to take any structure in this game. HA is not the reason someone can hold a tower.

[infinite loop]

You wanna know why the Jackhammer isn't a good suppression weapon? BECAUSE ITS NOT MENT TO BE ONE. How does Heavy Assault get translated into Suppression? It kicks ass because its ment to. The Lasher is still weak compared to the other HA weapons. It should have at least 30 rounds, maybe a faster rof or faster traveling shots.

I can agree with that, but my point is it does offer some useful versatility that the other HA weapons don't have. I still think the Lasher kicks ass.

The Mag is a good tank, only if you have a good driver AND a good gunner. This goes with the other tanks as well, but more so for the Mag because of its weak armor, and the straight shooting cannon. Yes, the cannon comes in handy when hitting aircraft and you can hit tanks better with it, but it has no arc, and its not the most accurate thing in long ranges, its also weak. You must also note (if you've ever gunned a Mag before you would know this) that it is extremely sensative to elevation unlike the other tanks. A tiny little bump in the ground will fuck up your shot.

I'm not being convinced here that any of this makes the Mag woefully underpowered. It is an awesome tank, period.

The Thresher is a joke.

yep.

Pulsar and Beamer.... they can switch between AP and normal, the Pulsar is a little more accurate than the other rifles, and the Beamer is the best anti-armor pistol. Still, they're weaker than the others.

yep yep.

VS MAX's are good only in the right hands. They're weaker than the other MAX's, but they compensate for the increased maneuverability which really doesn't help much when you've got 10 guys shooting at you. The weapon systems are much better now than before, only AV MAX that can take out another MAX with a full clip (the DC can too, but it takes so long, and thats only if every shot hits).

Are you using the same VS MAXes I am? Comparing just the AI MAXes, the Quasar outclasses the other two by far, primarily because it has range, which is a HUGE advantage. Add in the sweet jumpjet and that is the best MAX in the game, hands down. How can you say they are weaker than the others? I don't see it.

[Hamma]

If you don't have a chance to defend yourself, that probably means someone did something to get the jump on you, and they deserved it.
You don't need a jump on anyone to own them with a lasher, mcg, or JH

4 shots with my Sweeper as to 1-2 shots with a lasher or JH. HA = overpowered and I wish it was never even in the game.

[infinite loop]

You don't need a jump on anyone to own them with a lasher, mcg, or JH

4 shots with my Sweeper as to 1-2 shots with a lasher or JH. HA = overpowered and I wish it was never even in the game.

You're right, you don't necessarily have to have a jump on someone to win with HA. But, I think you have a legitimate chance to defend yourself against someone regardless of their weapon, if you see them coming. There are counters to every weapon, including HA. If you see someone with a JH coming at you from 30m away, put him down with your MA rifle, shouldn't be too hard. It's all about the balance. If HA ruled all at every range, then I'd agree with you. If you think it's overpowered, how come you don't just use it too? I don't understand I guess, no biggie.

[Rarzo]

Hamma, Im with you all the way! HA is a cheap CERT and I would not complain at all mind if they threw HA into a large meat grinder, shot it with a Vangaurd Shell (Which is also unfair, but thats a different story) and then tossed it off the edge of the Earth. Im with the VS most of the time, and I usually encouter the NC. That is how I formed my grudge against them, but never the less, HA all around is unfair to all who dont have it. Any novice at the game can get up close to someone and fire an automatic three shots at a person. So, in other words, if they dont get rid of it completely, they should at least put some stratagy into using it.

Now I know that people will counter my response, and people will want to throw bricks through my window with ransom notes saying that they have kidnapped my cat and want a large sum of money if I want her back...(Oh, sorry, got off topic...) Anyway, I just don't like the JackHammer or HA all together.

Well, Im going to go on PS and kill me some JH carrying NC!

[BadAsh]

You don't need a jump on anyone to own them with a lasher, mcg, or JH

4 shots with my Sweeper as to 1-2 shots with a lasher or JH. HA = overpowered and I wish it was never even in the game.

I don�t agree with the idea of banning HA. To me PS is a game of trade offs. To get HA you need to burn up 4 valuable certification points. And for those 4 points you only get an advantage in short range personal combat against other infantry. HA is not really effective for anything else. I mean for my 4 points I could get a Reaver and I�d own any HA I catch outside. He can not match my firepower, armor, or mobility. It�d be a total spank. Now, should I step out of my Reaver and engage in a small arms battle, I�d hope he would have the advantage because that�s where he put his points. Afraid of going inside because of HA? Then spend 3 points and get a Pounder MAX. Heck, to get the Pounder you don�t even need the medium assault prerequisite. So you got more armor and firepower with 3 points then he got with 6. Even if the HA trooper invested an additional 3 points and got a Rexo you�d still have more armor (650 to 150 is still ugly). A MAX simply is the most bang for your buck indoors.

In fact I like my example, so let�s analyze that further :)

Consider these 2 different character builds, they both have 9 certification points to spend�

Player 1: Rexo, MA, HA
Player 2: MA, Reaver, Pounder MAX

The only time player 1 has the advantage is if he catches player 2 when he is at a equipment or vehicle terminal. And even then player 1 has a chance especially if the battle is not close range� MA owns HA at longer ranges.

BadAsh

[TeraHertz]

The leap from MA to HA in vanu weapons is certainly pretty large. You'd be a fairly foolish VS if you didn't at least give yourself the option of the lasher. The only thing that comes close to it's assault power is the sweeper. The other weapons, except from SA, just dont come anywhere close to cutting it at anything other than medium range. Vanus NEED the lasher. Can the other empires say the same?

The cycler and guass seem way more effective than the pulsar. It might be a green grass* situation, but using he pulsar at short range is suicide, and at long range it's accuracy is poor. Maybe 1 out of four shots will hit when fired in the crouched position.


My point in all this is that the NC have a very good close range weapon (jack hammer), a more than decent long range weapon (guass), a pretty cool AV weap thats more fun to use than the other AV (Pheonix), while having the added benefit of the best pistol for cloakers.


Also, ban f**king 56k/high-latency users from playing NC.
Yes Paiah (http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character.jsp?worldId=21&charId=293166) that comment is aimed at you, you god damn warping git. You reaslise that every time I engage you, you disapear, poping out of thin air only to noobhammer me? Even that time an hour ago, you actualy disapeared when hot dropping. Yes, you may be good, I'm not saying you aren't; but can you feel proud of you're rank when you are effectivley exploiting the game's netcode.


*The grass is always on the other side

[keaoi]

Ok, how about the MAXes? The VS MAXes are by far the best in the game. There's no way you could argue that one logically.

Beg to differ. I fear the TR MAXes. I play TR on konreid, and anyone who says the pounder is gimped, needs skill REAL bad. There is no single better MAX for defending than the TR ones.

And dont even start with that "Sitting Duck" crap. No MAX can walk fast enough to dodge a deci. TR turns that weakness into a strength. What can VS do? Fly in plain view of Reavers/Phoenix/Strikers/Tanks/etc. WAIT!! We can fly 30 in. into the air inside a base before we hit the roof. Oh no, my bad. You meant that we can fly over base walls to be shreaded by wall turrets phoenix/striker missles.

PS - this isnt a bitch, but more of a request that TR whiners who miss their uber-pounder of launch day to give it up. I think NC got the short end of the MAX stick, not TR.

[Rayder]

VS maxs have weaker armor than the other empire maxs, in other words, it takes less to kill them.

You don't need to run to avoid a deci, time it right and you can jump over them if they're aimed low enough

The Mag is an in-sight tank. If you cant see it you can shoot it. The other tanks however CAN hit objects taht are behind mountains, walls and whatnot.

[WritheNC]

I'll have to retract my previous statement.

I do think the JH is the easiest to use, then MCG, then Lasher.

When I mean they don't take any skill I'm comparing it to the fact I run around with SA and Gauss and Sweeper.

You want my solution to HA? Buff the empire MA weapons. Take off the damage degradation almost entirely, so that the only real margin of error is a distance where your enemy doesn't fill up much of the CoF.

This would make HA fairly specialized for indoor combat, or rugged terrain(trees, uneven ground, etc).

Someone else suggested the damage degradation removal of MA, but I agree with it enough to say it again :)

[Spee]

Fight cheap lamishness with cheap lamishness - Plant a boomer at the door, and when some surgemonkey with HA rushes through, BOOM.



Best chance to take out a HA user as a cloaker, aside form AMP in the back. And even then, they have a good chance of killing ya.


Extra points are awarded if you plant the boomer in the backpack of the last victim so you get the uber-drop on him.

[Searo]

Hehe, "Beamer-Best A/V pistol"

That's like saying apples are the best potentially high-explosive fruit. The chance is there, but...

Ban 56kers? I never seem to do the warping, but my opponents do. Surge+HA equals me dead while my comp tries to get 5 fps. I actually freeze up when a surging HA blazes down tower stairs. It's like my computer is a deer in the headlights. I never get to warp around and kill people.

[Veteran]

The problem with making a weapon 'better when you know how to use it' is that in a game like this, thousands of people are going to devote lots of time learning how to use it.

The Lasher is the best weapon 'when you know how to use it'. If you can't see that, don't pester me with it. When a Jackhammer can kill me me at over 45 meters, maybe I'll change my mind. When a MCG can create a flying wall of damage that makes hiding behind obstacles irrelevant, maybe I'll change my mind.

I don't even care that things are more or less powerful. The part that's weak is when people deny it, like by doing so the devs will look at their brilliant post and go off and nerf it because people didn't claim it was balanced enough times.

Jackhammer has hitscan paradigm shooting, MCG has bullets and Lasher has very good indirect fire at medium/long range and a hard punch at point blank (Surge strikes again). You couldn't possibly 'balance' three completely dissimilar weapons. It just can't be done.

As far as I can tell, everyone is having fun, and that's where the real balance shows up. Doesn't mean I can't look at TR as the empire for people who would use the 'hard' setting in single-player games, cause it's my opinion formed by playing all three empires on many occasions. I think in reality it's only slightly tougher to play a TR, because common pool is so strong, so it's not like I'm suggesting TR will be swept off the planet any time soon.

They tripled my ration of TR stimpacks and the new regulations say I have to use them all on a daily basis. Does it show?

[_-Gunslinger-_]

**Please note that I have yet to play the game and these suggestions are based uppon my reading of the FACTS (or rather your sound opinions - the ones that dont scream nerf because you get pwned by them but rather provide a good reason)**

HA weapons should weigh enough to make a rexo w/o them run faster than a agile with. SA should suffer the same weight decriment (currently it appears MAXes can get pwned by decies and if they weigh enough ppl wont toat 3 of them around)

Next surge should cause your weapon to go away (Like sprint in most games) and then have a ready timer after use, but should allow reload during the surge because it is described as a skill for tactical distance covering or retreating. Furthermore it should have a 10 second timer for reuse to prevent HA spam (lasher) and reload for added dodging.

Third JH should have UNGODLY long reload. Its a drum no? Have you seen how long it takes to Reload a drum in Real Life? I do understand this is a game but none the less energy should be really fast an clips should be slow with drums the slowest.

No other nurfs or HA/SA removal. As Veteran (I saw him say it first) said quit bitching about inbalances and own up to the fact that ppl are milking Surge like a mofo!

[Rayder]

Veteran said it, you can't balance them all so that they're equal. But thats the thing, they aren't and never will be balanced. The only solution to make people quit whining about weapons, is to eliminate all empire specific weapons, and let anyone use any weapon at any time, give all people equal armor/health, have every weapon do the same amount of damage. Make everything the same and no one can complain.

[delta]

And a MCG is Just Spray and Pay, Us NC actually have to Reload our Weps

Yes, thank you. Someone smart on these forums, good point!

[Ghoest9]

I have to agree with Hamma. I always felt the the entire Heavy Assult line was bad for play.

Sure its fun when you kill someone fast but over time the end result is shorter fights and people dying faster on everyside.

I never used a Jack Hammer till 12 or 13 because I like sniping and laying mines. The truth is the sweeper is already an powerful weapon(and actually the cycler is too).

Yes it makes sense to us the HA cert because it does give you an edge. But if they didnt exsist game play would be very similar, fights would just last a second or 2 longer.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

What you said is true. However the only "balancing" is so that the NC feal thier empire weakness. The JH seems to break the NC mold. It puts alot of lead in a short time with an ok reload. Make it painful to spray with it (as in a 5 second reload) and then ppl will pic thier shots wisely, or die trying. All the other balance issues were blanket coverage. Effects all the same, so everyone feels the hurt and wont drive the people to leave (except the ones that have evolved into HA-parisites)

[Jagd]

Using Heavy Assault is not cheap. You have to spend a lot of cert points for a small advantage over other weapons, and you still need skillz to get the frags. Anybody who thinks you can spray and pray with an MCG has never used one outside of VR, and both the jackhammer and lasher lose their time-to-kill superiority with one or two missed shots.

[Veteran]

Example 1: Surging Standard Armor guy with an Alienware 510023 and 7tb diamond lattice FTL internet connection. To people in-game, he's practically invisible and when he jumps, you'd have to be a mind-reader to use your .1 or so seconds to aim right on him before he opens fire at point-blank from your blind-side.

Example 2: 1.4ghz computer with 64mb graphics card and cable modem, doesn't use Surge and is called a retard and such for not using it, because it's pretty much understood you'd better have it or you're kinda gimpy (ahem or so I've heard). As you are moving along at a very reasonable speed, your opponents don't see you teleporting like mad and get easy beads with whatever weapon they are using, or Surge up to you and splatter you before your client even gets vital information about what's happening to you. You usually see a spinning screen and one or two frames of a guy Surging away from you.

Granted, these are just two out of many possible ways people could encounter Surge on the battlefield, and in both it's clear that Surge is naughty.

But will the devs remove it? Surging is Unsafe at Any Speed for a game that tries to make a fair experience for its players who don't have brand new PCs and broadband. I for one would rather play a little slower and mellower (i.e. the environment that would exist without Surge) so that everyone can get into the game.

Really, I think Surge is fvcking it up for everyone. I use it all the time (go figure) but I'd gladly give it up to possibly double the playerbase. Yes, I honestly think that Surge monkeys intimidate the shit out of n00bs and the teleportation effects are just too crappy looking to encourage by making Surge available.

I'd increase the footspeed of Infiltrator armor by 15%, Standard by 10%, Agile by 5% and kick Surge to the curb. I think people can and would happily get along without it, and people would enjoy the game more with the cheese factor reduced.

[TeraHertz]

Ban 56kers? I never seem to do the warping, but my opponents do. Surge+HA equals me dead while my comp tries to get 5 fps. I actually freeze up when a surging HA blazes down tower stairs. It's like my computer is a deer in the headlights. I never get to warp around and kill people.


Ban them from playing NC (or and HA?). Surge and JackHammer + 56k lag + client side detection = warping monkey who can warp behind you and shoot you in the back while you're spinning around trying to guess where he's going to re-eapear.

Your fps problems are down to your pc, not your modem.

[Veteran]

Memory is huge in the lag equation also.

[TeraHertz]

Yes, thank you. Someone smart on these forums, good point!

It takes 5 seconds to empty a lasher clip. It takes 4.6 seconds to reload it. Whats your point.

[TeraHertz]

Example 1: Surging Standard Armor guy with an Alienware 510023 and 7tb diamond lattice FTL internet connection. To people in-game, he's practically invisible and when he jumps, you'd have to be a mind-reader to use your .1 or so seconds to aim right on him before he opens fire at point-blank from your blind-side.

Example 2: 1.4ghz computer with 64mb graphics card and cable modem, doesn't use Surge and is called a retard and such for not using it, because it's pretty much understood you'd better have it or you're kinda gimpy (ahem or so I've heard). As you are moving along at a very reasonable speed, your opponents don't see you teleporting like mad and get easy beads with whatever weapon they are using, or Surge up to you and splatter you before your client even gets vital information about what's happening to you. You usually see a spinning screen and one or two frames of a guy Surging away from you.

Granted, these are just two out of many possible ways people could encounter Surge on the battlefield, and in both it's clear that Surge is naughty.

But will the devs remove it? Surging is Unsafe at Any Speed for a game that tries to make a fair experience for its players who don't have brand new PCs and broadband. I for one would rather play a little slower and mellower (i.e. the environment that would exist without Surge) so that everyone can get into the game.

Really, I think Surge is fvcking it up for everyone. I use it all the time (go figure) but I'd gladly give it up to possibly double the playerbase. Yes, I honestly think that Surge monkeys intimidate the shit out of n00bs and the teleportation effects are just too crappy looking to encourage by making Surge available.

I'd increase the footspeed of Infiltrator armor by 15%, Standard by 10%, Agile by 5% and kick Surge to the curb. I think people can and would happily get along without it, and people would enjoy the game more with the cheese factor reduced.

I second that. Or have surge work like the MAX AutoRun. It disables you're weapon for a few seconds after you stop running.

[Scarecrowe]

VS maxs have weaker armor than the other empire maxs, in other words, it takes less to kill them.


Since When do VS MAX's have less armour than other MAX's? They all have 650 dont they?

[Warborn]

Since When do VS MAX's have less armour than other MAX's? They all have 650 dont they?

Some outdated information may still point to that. It was originally their intent to make VS MAX's less armored, but they decided that their flying ability isn't good enough to justify less armor. So, all MAX's are indeed equally armored.

[Flammey]

Blah, blah, blah. Bitch, bitch, bitch. That's all I hear.
I say, a friendly "Whatever." We all are going to have weapons we love to use, and weapons we despise to be used against us. Me, I despise cheaters and exploiters. Dying to weapons, experianced operators or not, doesn't matter to me. How do I know he's cheating? Well, if he disappears right in front of me when I'm killing him, that would count in my books as cheating.

[infinite loop]

Beg to differ. I fear the TR MAXes. I play TR on konreid, and anyone who says the pounder is gimped, needs skill REAL bad. There is no single better MAX for defending than the TR ones.

And dont even start with that "Sitting Duck" crap. No MAX can walk fast enough to dodge a deci. TR turns that weakness into a strength. What can VS do? Fly in plain view of Reavers/Phoenix/Strikers/Tanks/etc. WAIT!! We can fly 30 in. into the air inside a base before we hit the roof. Oh no, my bad. You meant that we can fly over base walls to be shreaded by wall turrets phoenix/striker missles.

PS - this isnt a bitch, but more of a request that TR whiners who miss their uber-pounder of launch day to give it up. I think NC got the short end of the MAX stick, not TR.

I'm not sure how you got that I was a TR whiner out of my comment. You're reading way too much into it. I've used MAXes from all 3 empires, and imho, the VS have the best. Yes, the Pounder still kicks ass, but I'd personally rather have the Quasar. It's range, accuracy, and ttk is more powerful than any HA weapon in the game. The pounder is better indoors obviously, not going to argue against that. And I think you're discounting the advantages the jumpjet gives you. It forces defenders to be ready for MAXes coming over the walls, whereas they don't against the other empires.

[infinite loop]

VS maxs have weaker armor than the other empire maxs, in other words, it takes less to kill them.

You don't need to run to avoid a deci, time it right and you can jump over them if they're aimed low enough

The Mag is an in-sight tank. If you cant see it you can shoot it. The other tanks however CAN hit objects taht are behind mountains, walls and whatnot.

Nope, actually all MAXes have 650 armor points, the same for all empires. VS are not weaker. And yes, the arc of other tanks is a very, very *slight* advantage over the mag in some extremely limiting situations. Not enough to say that those tanks are better. I'll take the ability to shoot down reavers anyday over that.

[infinite loop]

Example 1: Surging Standard Armor guy with an Alienware 510023 and 7tb diamond lattice FTL internet connection. To people in-game, he's practically invisible and when he jumps, you'd have to be a mind-reader to use your .1 or so seconds to aim right on him before he opens fire at point-blank from your blind-side.

Example 2: 1.4ghz computer with 64mb graphics card and cable modem, doesn't use Surge and is called a retard and such for not using it, because it's pretty much understood you'd better have it or you're kinda gimpy (ahem or so I've heard). As you are moving along at a very reasonable speed, your opponents don't see you teleporting like mad and get easy beads with whatever weapon they are using, or Surge up to you and splatter you before your client even gets vital information about what's happening to you. You usually see a spinning screen and one or two frames of a guy Surging away from you.

Granted, these are just two out of many possible ways people could encounter Surge on the battlefield, and in both it's clear that Surge is naughty.

But will the devs remove it? Surging is Unsafe at Any Speed for a game that tries to make a fair experience for its players who don't have brand new PCs and broadband. I for one would rather play a little slower and mellower (i.e. the environment that would exist without Surge) so that everyone can get into the game.

Really, I think Surge is fvcking it up for everyone. I use it all the time (go figure) but I'd gladly give it up to possibly double the playerbase. Yes, I honestly think that Surge monkeys intimidate the shit out of n00bs and the teleportation effects are just too crappy looking to encourage by making Surge available.

I'd increase the footspeed of Infiltrator armor by 15%, Standard by 10%, Agile by 5% and kick Surge to the curb. I think people can and would happily get along without it, and people would enjoy the game more with the cheese factor reduced.

I agree that the warping effect needs to be fixed, and it seems like the devs agree. In the latest upcoming development post, they said it was being looked at. Hopefully they can do this w/o removing surge. Unfortunately, many NC cannot happily get along w/o surge. Non-NC like to laugh at us for saying it, but the JH is extremely ineffective w/o surge. If they take out surge, they absolutely have to buff the JH. When I don't have surge yet, and I'm inside a base hallway, I'll get torn to shreds by any other MA or HA weapon before I'm close enough to do any real damage. It just plain sucks past 20m, and the other HA doesn't. Say no to removing surge!

[BadAsh]

I agree that the warping effect needs to be fixed, and it seems like the devs agree. In the latest upcoming development post, they said it was being looked at. Hopefully they can do this w/o removing surge. Unfortunately, many NC cannot happily get along w/o surge. Non-NC like to laugh at us for saying it, but the JH is extremely ineffective w/o surge. If they take out surge, they absolutely have to buff the JH. When I don't have surge yet, and I'm inside a base hallway, I'll get torn to shreds by any other MA or HA weapon before I'm close enough to do any real damage. It just plain sucks past 20m, and the other HA doesn't. Say no to removing surge!

Well, to my way if thinking that's just a trade off with the JH. If the target is past 20m they win. If they are within 20m you win.

The MCG is useless at long range and is OK at medium range, not quite even with Sweeper or Gauss/Cycler users at meduim range, but you can hang. At close range it's better than the Sweeper or Gauss but not as powerful as the JH.

Without surge the NC should just get a Rexo and keep a Gauss and a JH ready to go. You will then beat a MGC at long range, have an advantage at medium range, and own at close range. (This is my NC set-up on Markov)

I think you will find similar results against the Lasher, I do.

The NC don't need surge. Personally I hope they leave surge in the game, but just make it so that your weapons have to be holstered to use it.

BadAsh

[infinite loop]

Well, to my way if thinking that's just a trade off with the JH. If the target is past 20m they win. If they are within 20m you win.

You know, after I said this, I thought about all of my views on balance and trade-offs, and I think I kinda agree. The problem though, is that it's a bigger tradeoff than the potency at close-range makes up for. That's just my opinion.

Without surge the NC should just get a Rexo and keep a Gauss and a JH ready to go. You will then beat a MGC at long range, have an advantage at medium range, and own at close range. (This is my NC set-up on Markov)

Actually I rarely do the agile-surge-jh setup. I really like the versatility that rexo offers, so I'm usually in that, but I still use surge. My setup is either a gauss or JH in slot 2, and a deci in slot 4. I use my gauss outdoors and my JH when I get inside. You have to know your effective ranges for each weapon, and I think I've got it down.

The NC don't need surge. Personally I hope they leave surge in the game, but just make it so that your weapons have to be holstered to use it.

BadAsh

The problem with the balance argument is that people are only willing to accept small trade-offs to keep the balance, if any at all. Removing surge would make it appear to most that the JH is much less effective at every range besides cqc than the other HA weapons, and it will be deemed unfair. It will go back to the argument that I started, where the poor, poor JH monkey gets owned down a hallway by a lasher. I guess there's no real way to truly balance it, but I think removing surge would just have a horribly negative effect.

[Jagd]

If you use the sweeper, infiltration suit, or heavy assault surge will make them 75% more combat effective. Nerf surge and you will lose a lot of players. Even Veteran, crying for the rights of imagined 56k players, still uses it. It is a crucial part of the game, they can't take it away.

[Veteran]

Nobody would quit if they nerfed/eradicated Surge. Nobody. People would threaten to, and shout a lot, and generally make a stink that they don't want to play if they have to use skill or focus, but they won't quit. They'll adapt, and they'll enjoy the game all the more for it.

Of course I use it, just like the players used keep-away tactics in basketball until they added the offense clock. Before that, a lot of people said that basketball would die if they forced the offense to deliver the ball within a time-limit. What happened? Basketball flourished. Direct parallel.

[TeraHertz]

Surge isnt necsary for the lasher, except out in the open against a jackhammer. For the MCG the TR are better off crouching. As for the jackhammer, it'll make them less efective alot of the time, but they have the cycler. Charging round corners, and into control rooms they're still going to kill anything else out there.

[infinite loop]

Nobody would quit if they nerfed/eradicated Surge. Nobody. People would threaten to, and shout a lot, and generally make a stink that they don't want to play if they have to use skill or focus, but they won't quit. They'll adapt, and they'll enjoy the game all the more for it.

I'll throw out the first threat then. If they nerf surge, I will quit. I rely on it heavily with my JH, and I will not accept losing it. Nerfs frustrate me to no end, and one major direct nerf to me and I think I'm done. I don't want to adapt, I would rather go find something else to do with my time. And why does using surge equate to not using skill or focus? That's kind of a bullshit comment. If this game didn't require me to use skill and focus I wouldn't be playing.

Of course I use it, just like the players used keep-away tactics in basketball until they added the offense clock. Before that, a lot of people said that basketball would die if they forced the offense to deliver the ball within a time-limit. What happened? Basketball flourished. Direct parallel.

Uh are we professional atheletes? I'm not getting paid to play this game, quite the opposite. They should cater to us, and not force us to adapt to unnecessary nerfs and changes. Those basketball players had a large incentive to adapt to the new rules. I don't.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

It inbalances the game. If you dont want to play a game where you have a more even playing ground against an opponent then by all means quit, but bear in mind that you are acting like a two year old by doing so.

[Veteran]

You won't quit and they do nothing but cater to us. Providing a fair and balanced game is their goal, and adaptation on our part is purely by choice.

[Jagd]

Yeah but why would they do something so absurd as to take away something that a majority of players use and enjoy? And don't say "because its unfair" again, that is only an opinion.

[Veteran]

Of course a source of power as vast as Surge will be fun, it's like playing with four aces and a wild-card. The problem is, for each ounce of fun a Surge user refines, a pound of fun is removed from the people on the other side.

I've had to explain Surge-o-portation effects to prospective players, and their usual response is a raised eyebrow and a look of concern.

edit: It may just be an opinion that it's unfair, but it's an opinion that a lot of people share. Show me a speedhacker who opposes Surge and I'll show you someone who mixed up their medication.

[Jagd]

Just because its existence may help some speedhackers escape detection by other players, doesn't mean surge is the problem. They need to fix speedhacks, and find a way to prevent players with hacked PS files from logging on.

[Veteran]

No argument there. Surge has problems aside from letting speedhackers blend in, but you're right: they need to fix that problem with a quickness.