Surge-o-porting

[BadAsh]

I really hope the �teleporting� effect some people have when Surging truly gets addressed soon. In the latest announcement from the Developers they mentioned that this would be looked at. I hope it is fixed.

While I don�t intend to accuse anyone of anything there seem to be a core group of players that excel at surge-o-porting in close quarter battles. On Johari, it�s always the same 3 or 4 players who manage to single handedly take out entire squads or platoons before they are brought down. My personal experience is that I have a 2-3 frame battle. The first frame shows they rounding a corner or blazing through a door way, the next frame is them triple shotting me at point blank range with the Jack Hammer, the final frame is me dead on the ground. I literally have no chance to defend and only that first frame to hope to damage the surge-o-porters armor a little before my inevitable death.

One consistency is that it�s always the same 4 guys, all NC, all Agile Surging Jack Hammer users. I�m loathe to call someone a cheater myself, but I will say that anytime these guys show up on the area 2 things primarily happen.

1. A dozen or so HA guys die
2. You can read several /L local and /P platoon chat messages reading something like this: �Ok guys the speed hacker is here, group up and stay together.�

This changes the combat tactics of an entire platoon. And I�m not joking. Yesterday, I joined a platoon that went on a mission to back hack a NC locked continent. We encountered a single surge-o-porter and he owned 2 complete squads single handedly. I died 2 times, both times I ran across him and had that 2-3 frame battle experience.

My first encounter I was Rexo and MCG and I died nearly instantly. My second fight I tried to fight fire with fire and go Agile + Surge myself. This did not work. My observations are as follows:

1. The surge-o-porting does not seem to affect them, they remain accurate and able to navigate. You, however, cannot react.
2. They are not affected by any surge-o-porting you may be able to do. If you agile surge at them, you will notice they are still able to �teleport� and they don�t miss you at all. So clearly, you are not teleporting like they are.

It�s seems plausible that either these players are using a hack/cheat or are exploiting a known glitch with the game. I hesitate to claim they are cheating, but at the same time I hesitate to say they are legit either�

Warning: Boring self qualification below� LOL

Now, while I�m not the best FPS player of all time :) I can hold my own in a fair fight. I�ve pretty much been a FPS game player since DooM2 came out back in 95. I�ve been in organized clan matches at the birth of the OGL and have ranked top 3 in several LAN tournaments for 1 on 1 death match play. The last clan I seriously competed in was a Q3A (Quake 3 Arena) CTF clan that won 2 consecutive seasons of CAL tournaments, and was ranked #1 on both the OGL and TWL 8 player CTF ladders for our last 3 months together. What does that mean? Basically, we won our last 40 CTF matches against some of the best and highest ranked clans before we decided to retire. Having achieved the top spot you can just �maintain� at that point and so we all moved on to other games.

From there I played RTCW (Return to Castle Wolfenstein) and only played on a public server running a OLTL (one life to live) mod. The server ran stats and I was always top 5 out of 150+ �regulars� to the server.

My point here is that I�m not some n00b who gets spanked and then cries about it. And I�m not the type to get beaten and then accuses someone of cheating. There are guys who can consistently beat me, and I know it. But I am damn good and I know BS when I see it. Surge-o-porting is BS and needs to GO!

BadAsh

[Veteran]

Amen!

[Peacemaker]

Maybe the guy has a really hardcore connection?

[Marsman]

Amen as well. Uber connection? Not unless these people are sitting at sitting on the LAN inside the SOE server room running a Cray.

[Peacemaker]

small college that uses a T1 and only a few ppl use it?

[Marsman]

Describing someone's internet connection is like describing the driveway to their house. Despite that it may be paved, triple wide, and have breakdown lanes doesn't mean they can make a trip across town any faster. Yes, they hit the street quicker, but they still must negotiate the streets and roads from point A to B. Same with the internet - you can have an OC-192 to your house but that doesn't mean the path from the end of your connection to your destination is as fast or has as little traffic. The internet has latency - no matter how quick you get started - you aren't going to be able to reduce your ping beyond a certain point. Most people have pings that are a 1/10 of a sec or less. Even if you are in the server room on the lan with < 1 ms ping - it doesn't explain some of the things people has reported and seen. 1/10 of sec difference wouldn't allow the 3 frame scenerio of death described above.

[BadAsh]

FYI,

I picked the Johari server because I live right here in San Diego and my ping averages about a 12 with my Cable modem and my packet loss is minimal as well.

I don't think this is a connectivity issue.

BadAsh

[infinite loop]

Agreed. I hate surge-o-porting more than just about anything else in the game. But if it is a connection/latency issue, I think it's with people that have a bad connection, not a fast and reliable connection. I've heard of 56kers that can teleport at will. Whatever it is, it's retarded and I hope they do fix it soon.

[CplPunishment]

BadAsh,

I play as TR on Johari and I im pretty sure I know who you are referring to. I have on a number of occasions come across these players who are moving way too fast for the type of armor they are wearing even with the surge implant. Also, they move that fast for minutes at a time. I might not be the best PS player, but I am no slouch either. I have been playing since May and there is no way you could tell me that they are not either cheating or exploiting.

CorporalPunishment

[Madcat170]

I think its rooted in lag

i do much better with 110 ping than i do with a 30 ping, the slight ammount of extra lag + the extra that surge seems to produce makes you harder to hit.

[CplPunishment]

Madcat,

Altough lag does factor into the problem, lag does not matter in this case because I only see this happening with certain players. If it was happening randomly or with every player I encounter then I would discount it. But I see this happen only with certain players and only with them.

[Madcat170]

Just Adding to the lag discussion tbh, ive not had much of a probleme on the werner server with Cheating arseholes, the ones we have come accross are killed by pure team co-ordination

So much client side stuff makes it playable for 56kers, but too much makes it exploitable.

I hate Cheaters, they suck big oversized donkey penis.

[Veteran]

It's cool that once Surge is finally eliminated/nerfed into the dirt, PlanetSide will become even more enjoyable than it is now, and speedhackers will be glaringly obvious, instead of using Surge to hide behind.

Not even Johhny Cochrane could get Surge aquitted for what it's been doing to the game.

[InfiniteStorm]

surge just needs to be fixed. Like so many people before me have said. Make it so you cannot hold your weapon while surging. MAXs can't shoot while in run mode, why should an agile suit be able to?

[infinite loop]

surge just needs to be fixed. Like so many people before me have said. Make it so you cannot hold your weapon while surging. MAXs can't shoot while in run mode, why should an agile suit be able to?

I don't understand this argument at all. What would be the point of having surge at all if they did this? The main use of surge is not for transport, it's for closing the distance between yourself and the enemy more quickly. I don't even waste my stamina on surge unless I know I'm about to engage the enemy. Running towards the enemy with surge and no weapon out would be suicide.

[Veteran]

In Standard Armor, I can Surge from one base to another at 40kph in under 100 stamina points. It's like having a car without wasting any certs.

If it were only used for closing distance, it would still cause teleportation/warp effects, which do nothing but make prospective players scratch their heads and ask 'why?'.

[infinite loop]

But it IS primarily used for closing distances. Can't say that I see many people surging between bases in standard. I've done it, but I'd rather be in a vehicle. I don't think many people would keep surge if they nerfed it. And according to the devs, they are working on a solution for the warping effect, apparently without touching surge. If they can do this, will you be happy with leaving surge alone?

[Veteran]

Surge is broken on many levels. Surge monkeys must be caged.

[infinite loop]

Surge is broken on many levels. Surge monkeys must be caged.

Can you elaborate?

[Searo]

I get 300 ping in the sanct, 400-900 in battles that are small enough for me to participate in.

I don't think I've ever managed to warp around and kill people, except for when I have 1.5k+ lag and then I just wander around for a few minutes until I find myself dead back where I started. My weapons don't hurt people then, they hit the target, and the target gives a hit effect. But nothing happens, so I'm not really doing anything.

[Jagd]

Veteran, I seem to recall another post you made where you said you have never personally seen the teleporting effect because you have a good computer with a fast connection. What baffles me is why you think surge is such a big problem.

The purpose of surge is to make soldiers run quickly. Personally, I use it for 3 things-- closing ground to get into sweeper/amp range, travelling from a crappy spawn point or hart drop location to a base, and getting the hell out of there should I encounter too many enemies at once. It does these things very well.

I have never experienced teleporting by surging players, and I find it pretty hard to believe somebody with a ping as low as BadAsh is actually getting killed with 3 frames of animation. My computer is well below average for PS players, and even though I get killed by jackhammers probably more often than any other single weapon I always have plenty of time to see them, open fire, turn around if they try and flank, and unload half a clip into them before dying. I guess it just seems pretty typical behaviour for people who are below the bell curve to claim other players have an unfair advantage, and cry for a nerf.

[BadAsh]

I guess it just seems pretty typical behaviour for people who are below the bell curve to claim other players have an unfair advantage, and cry for a nerf.

Just because you are oblivious to a problem reported by MANY people here and on the official forums AND that was acknowledged by the DEVS as a problem to be corrected does not mean the problem magically does not exist.

Quite frankly I'm sick of your condescending flame posts here and your attitude towards others who happen to have an different opinion than you. From what I've seen from your postings here you lack the eye for detail required for an analytical approach to any problem be it a game bug or balance question. Whether this is be because you are too dim to notice or you simply don't care remains to be seen.

I mean come on man, where do you get off insulting everyone here? Ok, so some people have experienced a problem that you have never seen. Say that in a respectable way and keep your little snide insults to yourself.

BadAsh

[dscytherulez]

I have to agree with jagd...although im sure there are ways to fix this problem, nerfing it is NOT the solution. I fell in love with my surge when i hit BR18, simply because it makes it soooo much easier to get to the nme, and seeing how the JH is shit at range, closing the distance is necessary.

[JuSTCHiLLiN]

You might want to try a thumper with plasma. I find it's effective against people who jump around my screen.

[BadAsh]

I have to agree with jagd...although im sure there are ways to fix this problem, nerfing it is NOT the solution. I fell in love with my surge when i hit BR18, simply because it makes it soooo much easier to get to the nme, and seeing how the JH is shit at range, closing the distance is necessary.

This thread is about fixing a known bug with Surge and not about nerfing anything... unless you are assuming that Surge is supposed to make the user appear to teleport all over the map... then, yeah, I say nerf that. :)

BadAsh

[Jagd]

Once again, you accuse ME of flaming with some harsh personal attacks thrown into the mix. Explain to me again what your problem is? Oh yeah, you get pwned by jackhammers. Cry me a river.

[BadAsh]

Once again, you accuse ME of flaming with some harsh personal attacks thrown into the mix. Explain to me again what your problem is? Oh yeah, you get pwned by jackhammers. Cry me a river.

Ok, let's take this down a notch. I don't care to engage in a flame fest with you. I just have a few points I'd like to make.

The first being that yes, I find your posts to be flames. If I had talked to you in that way, I doubt you would like it...

I have never experienced teleporting by surging players, and I find it pretty hard to believe somebody with a ping as low as BadAsh is actually getting killed with 3 frames of animation.

Here you imply lying...

I guess it just seems pretty typical behaviour for people who are below the bell curve to claim other players have an unfair advantage, and cry for a nerf.

And here you provide my rationale for lying. I get owned and am making an excuse, which is typical for players that are �below the bell curve�.

You insulted my integrity, credibility, and playing skills.

So, yes, you do flame and you do START flames. I understand that some people just love to flame on message boards. If this is your thing, then knock yourself out. I won�t be suckered into this again. If it�s not your thing, then please write your posts as if you were writing to yourself. If hearing it would not offend you then likely you telling it won�t offend someone else.

My second point is this thread has nothing to do with the Jack Hammer. This thread is about the (possibly exploited?) bug with the surge implant. Many have experienced this and the developers even recognize this as a problem and are slated to work on it. If you had read the thread and understood it you would know what the conversation is about. But, you just pick up on one or two details and then flame based on that, such as your irrelevant statements about me having a problem with the Jack Hammer. Hence my harsh words about your analysis ability in my response to your flame.

BadAsh

[Jagd]

You know what I think the problem here is, you take all of this way too seriously. I didn't insult your integrity or credibility, what are you, running for office here? I admit to dissing your playing skills, you poor thing. Since I've never played with or against you, I presumed you would take very little stock in something that was obviously an off-the-cuff remark, with no experiential knowledge to back it up. Jesus, now you've got me talking like a Mormon. Damn you.

My point is, you need to relax. Take a deep breath. And don't take it personally if people disagree with you. What am I gonna do, show up at your school and tell all your friends that I think you've got some dumb ideas about how to change planetside?

What does this have to do with surge? Some people think it's cheap, and others don't. If you read the posts here for a while, you will begin to notice a pattern. Certain people will find a way to complain about everything being cheap, given enough time. Every time the devs break out their nerf bat to try and calm down the mob, they have over done it or screwed something else up in the process, which hurts the game and causes players to leave.

While you may be sick of me calling you to task for your bad ideas, I am sick of fundamental elements of the game being changed to calm down a vocal minority. I believe the only thing unfair about this game is when they pull the rug out from under established tactics. You getting killed by what you can only speculate are players using surge, is not.

Now what was I gonna say about your mom?

[BadAsh]

Changes made to eliminate hacking and or cheating are good.

Changes made to correct exploits are good.

Changes that bring more fair play and balance are good.

Those who disagree or who feel their "established" tactics are being taken away are the ones using these unfair advantages that exploit flaws in either the game code or design.

Now what are you going to do that you are forced to fight fair? What someone took the horseshoe out of your boxing glove? *Gulp* "Gosh that other guy looks mean and now he can even hurt me!" Yep, it's payback time and you know it's coming...

Deal with it.

BadAsh

[FightForFreedom]

Patch released at 3 AM last night. Says it fixed some of the lag and made the animation smoother. After playing today, I can certainly see a difference.

While people don't usually bounce around my screen, I have seen those few people BadAsh mentioned tear apart my entire squad and spit on their corpses within a minute. I don't want them to nerf surge into extintion, oh no; but possibly make it use up more stamina or something so it doesn't last quite as long.

[Jagd]

Your first 3 assertions there are correct. However, I have yet to hear a convincing argument (let alone proof!) that links surge with words like "exploit", "unfair" or "cheap." All I hear are people getting mad because one of their enemies was on a roll. Do you never get on those uber-lucky rushes where you break into a room/tower, catch a roomful of bad guys completely off guard, and frag them all before they knew what hit them?

[Veteran]

Surge lets you 'catch them off guard' because you're moving so fast, their clients don't inform them about what's going on until they're dead. I'm sure if people could upload the things they've seen with their own eyes (including myself), many people would understand the three-frames-of-death. I had one once where I was behind a MAX and three frames later a Surging Standard JH guy was behind both of us. The thing is, I saw him on audio and was waiting for him. It didn't matter.

Surge != exploit, Surge == unfair, Surge == cheap

[sutsurikeru]

Ok, my turn to give my thoughts about this 3-frames-of-death problem. Here it goes...


1. Ive tried it on all servers/empires/armors, nothing
2. Been killed by it serveral times
3. Been infil close running beside one of these teleporting people and DID NOT hear that heartbeat sound you hear when surge is turned on. I have done this with many surge-agile teleporters
4. Seems to apply only the NC. Mainly the ones with JackHammers
5. BadAsh and Jadg like to piss eachother off
6. Lol :D


Well, thats all the data ive collected so far

wait, one more thing...

1. The animation/FPS patch didnt fix this problem

[Unknown]

Just FYI, the animation/backpack patch is actually being released in around 2 and a half hours, not yesterday at 3. Today at 3.

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum16/HTML/000287.html

[BadAsh]

Your first 3 assertions there are correct. However, I have yet to hear a convincing argument (let alone proof!) that links surge with words like "exploit", "unfair" or "cheap."

Warning ludicrous flame eminent:

So the posted testimonial of scores of people here and on the official forums and the developers admitting a fault in the game code is not proof to you? Then surely there is no sunshine. Since your eyes are attached to your head and your head is stuffed where the sun does not shine� therefore you have never seen sunshine and therefore there is no sun.

Brilliant conclusion! Wait I know you! Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf right? The Iraqi Information Minister! You tell the truth! There are no Americans in Baghdad and there are no bugs in SOE software! Death to the infidels and their false ideals about a SOE bugs and sunshine!

Of course I�m just being facetious here. I hope the humor is not completely lost. :)

I suppose the best non-inflammatory way to say this is that I think ample evidence exists to at least give the benefit of the doubt to the possibility that this glitch/bug/exploitation is true. If you disagree then fine, but I beg to differ. You won�t convince me that what I saw I in fact did not see.

BadAsh

[Veteran]

Surge is turning brother against sister! Oh the humanity!

[TeraHertz]

You might want to try a thumper with plasma. I find it's effective against people who jump around my screen.


Not a good idea when you're in a squad.

I use surge to get around, from tower to base, from vehicle to re-arm terminal, and general transport. I also use it to chase down radar blips with audio amp, run away, dart from tree to tree, out flank people, and to jump over barriers in rexo. NONE of these actualy require that my gun be unholstered. Put the same run penalty on surge that is applied to maxs and problem solved. I'll certainly still use it.

[Madcat170]

How about surge Just Deativates everytime you fire and you get a -25% speed penalty

or something, i duno maybe not the speed penality

[Liquidtide]

Or surging with your weapon out negates the surge effects by 75%, so you still get some speed increase, but basically a Rexo could run like an Agile and an Agile like Standard with weapons out and Surge on, just a thought.

[infinite loop]

Veteran - you still haven't said why you think surge is broken on many levels. I don't know what you meant by that statement, and am rather curious.

Others who suggest surge not working while weapon unholstered - how does this solve the warping problem? It still has not been proven that surge is the only culprit of this effect. I have seen people warp that were not using surge. Regardless of what causes it, how would this solution change things? That surging-agile guy in the tower can still 3-frame behind you, and then pull out his JH. The warping problem itself needs to be fixed, not removing surge or nerfing it. I believe it is a problem with lag and the prediction algorithms, especially when running up stairs. Let's wait and see what the devs do before continuing the surge nerfing ideas. Say it with me, NERFS ARE THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. SAY NO TO NERFS!

[TeraHertz]

How about surge Just Deativates everytime you fire and you get a -25% speed penalty

or something, i duno maybe not the speed penality


Thats wouldnt anywhere near fix the problem. The enemy will still be able to dispear then re-appear behind you, pull his weapon intantly, and BANG. Dead.

[Madcat170]

You seem to mis the point, You cant instant Pull a weapon, and fire at the same time, giving you more time to react, and once they do fire they are going 25% slower, giving you even MORE time to react.

I dunno, guess im just playing PS diffrent to the majority of the player base.

You basicly want surge for just traveling, If your part of an Half organised Squad/platoon/Outfit, some one must have a mass transport Vehicle.

Off topic, but i think this needs to be thought through a little further than "dont let them have surge a gun out at the same time"

[Veteran]

1: Surge abuses people with weaker computer systems. They see a Surging enemy as a few frames before their inevitable death.

2: Surge turns an infantry into a car and destroys the need for vehicles. Anyone in Standard Armor can run from base to base in under one full tank of stamina. Delivering an LLU or module with Surge is a childishly simple tactic that can yield a lightning-fast capture without use of vehicles (and therefore without teamwork).

3: Surge lets speedhackers blend in easily. This is an epidemic problem, and in my paranoid mind I wonder if this might be Surge's main purpose: to keep the players in the dark about how many sh1thead cheaters are out there.

4: Surge is so powerful that you're hard-pressed to find someone with a more squad-friendly implant, especially if they are below battle-rank 18. Audio Implant, Range Magnifier, Silent Run. A good squad leader could find a way to tap his squaddies depending on their implants except they all have Surge instead.

5: Surge abuses Client-Side Hit-Detection by easily filling your entire cone-of-fire with the enemy's body. Using cover to advance on your enemies is a good test of skill until Surge turns you into a 42kph monster who can blatantly disregard cover (especially indoors) and still get a kill.

6: Surge makes n00bs into disproportionately powerful killing machines. Seriously, anyone who reads any PS forum is going to get the idea to try Surge, and trust me, they'll like it. Obviously n00bs deserve a shot at doing well, but Surge is like picking up a pair of cleats at an ass-kicking contest and cutting in line to go first.

These are the reasons I believe Surge to be one of the biggest detrimental factors to PlanetSide's greater glory.

[infinite loop]

Thanks for the reply, it's very well thought out with some good points. I'll comment on some.

1: Surge abuses people with weaker computer systems. They see a Surging enemy as a few frames before their inevitable death.

This may or may not be true. I have two accounts and two computers, one far superior to the other, which is a pretty low-end system (t-bird 1.4 and GF3). I've run some surge tests to try and reproduce warping and lag effects. I haven't been able to do it, but my tests were run away from any zerg. I would argue that the warping and lagging affects all people to a large extent, regardless of their system. When I'm in a large battle, I get less than 30fps and see warping sometimes. I don't blame it completely on surge.

2: Surge turns an infantry into a car and destroys the need for vehicles. Anyone in Standard Armor can run from base to base in under one full tank of stamina. Delivering an LLU or module with Surge is a childishly simple tactic that can yield a lightning-fast capture without use of vehicles (and therefore without teamwork).

Good point. But if you were going to try and take out the llu-carrier, it wouldn't be too hard to do if he were in standard armor. I'd rather pick them up in a deliverer if it were my empire running it, to give it a chance of survival. If there's no attempt to take out the lllu-carrier, then what difference does it make if he's in a vehicle or not? The teamwork issue really only comes into play when there are enemies present. Not to mention that if there's no AMS at the base, you would have to survive the base assault with your standard armor to even accomplish this. I just think it's a low percentage of the time that an llu is capped this way.

3: Surge lets speedhackers blend in easily. This is an epidemic problem, and in my paranoid mind I wonder if this might be Surge's main purpose: to keep the players in the dark about how many sh1thead cheaters are out there.

Man I hope your paranoia is misplaced, I'd hate to think that speedhacking is very rampant. I'd like to think that they are doing everything possible to eliminate speedhacking. Ignorance is bliss though!

4: Surge is so powerful that you're hard-pressed to find someone with a more squad-friendly implant, especially if they are below battle-rank 18. Audio Implant, Range Magnifier, Silent Run. A good squad leader could find a way to tap his squaddies depending on their implants except they all have Surge instead.

I'm not sure I see this as being less squad-friendly. I mean, if it give someone an advantage, possibly to make them a more effective killer, then I definitely want them in my squad. Yeah the other implants are very helpful, but I don't see surge as being any more or less helpful than them.

5: Surge abuses Client-Side Hit-Detection by easily filling your entire cone-of-fire with the enemy's body. Using cover to advance on your enemies is a good test of skill until Surge turns you into a 42kph monster who can blatantly disregard cover (especially indoors) and still get a kill.

Yeah cshd sucks ass, but I don't think surge abuses it any more than other things in the game. For example, vehicle mowing does too. I hate it, but unless they overhaul the game physics, I don't see this changing.

6: Surge makes n00bs into disproportionately powerful killing machines. Seriously, anyone who reads any PS forum is going to get the idea to try Surge, and trust me, they'll like it. Obviously n00bs deserve a shot at doing well, but Surge is like picking up a pair of cleats at an ass-kicking contest and cutting in line to go first.

True. But what it all boils down to for me is one thing, fun. Using surge is a blast. Surging down the tower stairs and tearing through enemies makes me smile. It's not a simulation, it's a fun game, and surge is a part of that fun for me and alot of others. Taking it away or nerfing it would be taking away my fun. I like fun! :groovy:

[Gunslanger]

i didn't read past the first page(being lazy). but, i thought i'd throw my 2cents in. i am an EQ veteran(main lvl 65, 84AA-blah blah), haven't played in months. i remember a year or so ago, i was at a friend of mine's house. there was hack/cheat program that he was using. blew my mind. he said it was undetectable unless a GM actually saw you doing it. it would let you run at ANY speed you want. SoW(up to 60%ish faster) speed, Selo's speed(84%ish or so faster), or even FASTER. he was running soooo fast. he tried to urge me to use the program, but i told him hells no. i spent too much time on my char to get banned, lol.

there were also more cheats he told me about, some actually detectable, although i didn't see any ecept one-which had nothing to do with our discussion. point i'm making is, maybe these players are using a variation of this program...anyone now what i'm talking about? Ex-EQ vets?

[Jagd]

/ignore BadAsh

Or surging with your weapon out negates the surge effects by 75%, so you still get some speed increase, but basically a Rexo could run like an Agile and an Agile like Standard with weapons out and Surge on, just a thought.

That's pretty much how it works now. Have you ever ran around with your gun drawn? You go slower than with it holstered. Same thing with surge, with your gun out of its holster you do not go full speed.

EDIT: To Veteran's points, try using surge while carrying an LLU. Just like driving in a vehicle, the maximum speed is noticably gimped. Most of your other points are pure speculation, some based on reasonable assumptions, but all lacking that certain je-ne-sais-quoi? Fact.

[BadAsh]

/ignore BadAsh

Perfect! Now I can post and have discussions without the flame du Jour.

BadAsh

[TheN00b]

Guys, I respect you both, as players and as posters. But if I wanted to read material like the current posts on this thread, I would read the OF rather than PSU. This flaming is immature and an insult to both of you. Please desist.

[Jagd]

Perfect! Now I can post and have discussions without the flame du Jour.

BadAsh

:rolleyes: Check your PMs, monkey boy.

[TeraHertz]

Ok, my turn to give my thoughts about this 3-frames-of-death problem. Here it goes...


1. Ive tried it on all servers/empires/armors, nothing
2. Been killed by it serveral times
3. Been infil close running beside one of these teleporting people and DID NOT hear that heartbeat sound you hear when surge is turned on. I have done this with many surge-agile teleporters
4. Seems to apply only the NC. Mainly the ones with JackHammers
5. BadAsh and Jadg like to piss eachother off
6. Lol :D


Well, thats all the data ive collected so far

wait, one more thing...

1. The animation/FPS patch didnt fix this problem


you need to be a 56ker who can receive data faster than their client sends.
They recieve all the data regarding the enemie's position etc, but their client is unable to deliver their own data to the server fast enough. The bottleneck only lasts a fraction of a second. Earlier I mentioned pariah, a blatent surge-o-porter. Guys in my outfit play/ed with him in UT and know for a fact he's a long time 56k user.

[Madcat170]

Hmmm, i went and decided to see if i can do this with other Heavy Assualt weapons, the probleme seems to be that the Jackhammers secondry mode has a very fast, very accurate TTK.

The Beef seems to be souly with Surging Jackhammer using nutcases. A simple Fix, just for a test would be to Remove the Jackhammers Secondry mode (no other HA has a secondry mode any way), i see alot of NC saying " OMG TEH SECONDRY MODE ON TEH JACKHAMM0R IS TEH SUXXZ0R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111oneoneoneelevenone"

After thats removed and the Three frames of Death is still a major probleme then maybe something a bit more drastic.

Now come on Dev's i know you read these boards, i can smell you :D (not that you stink its just dev's have a funny smell)

To any 1 that complains about me sucking up to the devs, youll see whos laughing when i AMS start expoding on your head.....

[Vick]

I surge.

I do not have rexo certed, nor heavy assault. I have had HA before, but only for a short time. My main weapon is the sweeper shotgun, sometimes a rocklet or gauss. I use agile armor almost exclusivly, with a decimator and a few medkits in my pack.

I fight alot of surgers, and never seem to have more trouble with them then any other players. I killed a JH wielding TR with agile and surge the other day, and I fight MCGers and lasher surgers every day. The thing that kills me the most is rexo/MCG, it seems that 70% of TR on Konried use that setup, and it is very deadly.

My system is nothing special, AMD 1700, Radeon 9700 Pro, cable connection.

I have played FPSs for several years, off and on. Was ranked highly in DoD, I sucked for a while at CS, and most recently got pretty good at RTCW, and Enemy Territory.

So, pretend I am your everyday "surge monkey", what is it that makes me good?

Is it my system? I doubt it...

Maybe my weapon is better? No, I use MA and SA.

So, is it the surge? I guess it could be...

But maybe it is just that these surgers, although surge might be helping, are better players then you. Maybe you should stop making excuses.

[BadAsh]

Again,

It's NOT a problem with surge. It's NOT a problem with the JackHammer. It's NOT a problem with players who are skilled.

It IS a problem with a small handfull of players who have the ability to "warp" around your screen and move at hyper speeds (Surge? Speedhack? Code problem? Exlpoit perhaps? Or any combination of the above? Who knows... I don't. I just want it fixed.)

Many many players experience this and the DEVs know it's a problem as well...

BadAsh

[Jagd]

Then stop calling it surge, and start a thread about busting speedhackers. Common sense, that.

[Acaila]

There is a trick to being a surge warper, which I will not post cause there is too many of them out there already :p. It is very simple, but maybe not that obvious. How is it, do you think, that a player with surge who moves so fast all around you can still accurately hit you?

[Veteran]

Jagd, as entertaining as you are, I must correct you on the point of running with an LLU. With Standard Armor and Surge, you are still quick as a wink. Same goes for modules.

Not to brag, but I stole three modules within an hour today by smiting the generous donator (enemy soldier) with my Reaver, then grabbing the module and Surging home with it.

I actually felt guilt.

edit: Also, it's not necessarily the speed increase so much as the fact that in Standard, you can Surge for one minute and forty seconds. That's enough time to run from a geowarp to a friendly SOI, or from base to base, even carrying an LLU. I've done it so many times now that I'm sure about what I speak.

[Hamma]

They are going to fix this warping issue.

[flypengy]

surge just needs to be fixed. Like so many people before me have said. Make it so you cannot hold your weapon while surging. MAXs can't shoot while in run mode, why should an agile suit be able to?

I've heard people suggest that far too many times and implementing that will seriously screw over and sweeper users and jackhammer users. Both of these weapons require you to get in close range of them to be remotely effective as other weapons. Without surge sweeper and JH are completely gimp.

[flypengy]

Also, most people have not truly come across a speed hacker. There is warping and speedhacking.

Warping is caused by clientside prediction. For instance when someone runs to the top of the stairs and it looks like they hit the cieling. That is your computer making predictions. Same thing with the flying across the screen. The computer is predicting where the person is going which is why those with shoddier connections warp more.

[TeraHertz]

They are going to fix this warping issue.


Muhahahah. Pariah. Your days are numbered.

[Jagd]

Veteran, you do run faster with surge and an LLU, than without surge, but you still don't run full, unencumbered surge speed. Try racing a teammate next time you grab an LLU. :)