Surge Thoughts

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/index.php?newsid=674

[EarlyDawn]

Option number two would be... game changing, to say the least.

[dscytherulez]

OMG...if they change it ima flip out, even though i have rexo and HA anyway...but not being able to have it equipped...thats just crazy...

[Ghoest9]

#2 would make cyclers the new pet whipping boy.

I think.



EDIT: I vote for 3.

[Otis]

YES!
IT IS TRUE! I LOVE SOE! I AM NOW WILLING TO PAY $20 A MONTH!
Ok maybe not but I'm pretty damn happy. Surge will no longer work while holding a weapon. HELL YES! I guess the NC will have to think of a new tactic becouse there will be NO more flying around with Jackhammers baby, NO MORE!
:rock:

[Flammey]

Option # 3. Surge was meant as a way to move away fast, or to move in fast. People just hopped on the idea that it could be used as a way to attack fast, and in doing so became exploited by a lot of people.
Option # 2 it not exactly feasible. PS is assuming all the soldiers are fit, fitness wise, and are able to lift heavy weapons. Option # 1 is the worst, as players will find a way around it, and find a new exploit. Why not just kill 2 birds with 1 Planet? Make it so people can't surge with a weapon out.

Oh, and my reason clarified is the Option # 1 and 2 won't solve the problem, it'll only slow it down for a time. People will still use surge and HA. They might be content with Rexo enough to still use it. Only option # 3 will solve the problem completely for those find this a problem to begin with.

[Veteran]

Removing Surge is the best long-term solution. Increase the footspeed of Infiltrator armor by 15%, Standard by 10%, Agile by 5% and kick the broken piece of crap Surge to the curb. Replace it with a new, cooler, yet less broken implant and the game would truly surge.

Surge sucks in a game that uses Client-Side Hit-Detection. Warping the game around it is a huge waste of energy. It has caused enough problems and ill-will in the player-base. Time to stop it.

[BadAsh]

Reason prevails! I�m glad to see a reasonable solution is in the works.

1. If they fix the warping alone I�d be happy.

2. Rexo pre-req? My only issue with that is you won�t be able to use HA right out of Virtual Training. It�s already got a pre-req of Medium Assault, adding Rexo would make 5 pre-req cert points to just get it and it still costs 4 by itself. So that�s 9 points tied up� though most people get Medium Assault anyway unless they are strictly a driver/pilot. Perhaps some tweaking of cert costs is in order here, perhaps make the Rexo 2 and HA 3? But, I�d be happy with this solution with the fix above.

3. Having weapons holstered while surging makes a lot of sense to me. So I�d be happy with this solution with the fix above.

Now perhaps people will get more vehicle certs and the game will have more variety of implants rather than EVERYONE having Surge and maybe1 or 2 others.

BadAsh

[Warborn]

Either works for me. I'm not sure which I'm in favor of, but I think I'm leaning toward... yep, definitely leaning toward no weapon out while Surging.

[WritheNC]

I'd like the Rexo for HA idea.

If that was a prerequisite though, I'd have to say HA goes down to 3 points, since you're already spending 5 just to get it.

I really hope the warping thing is fixed though, most of all.

[Ait'al]

Implants give you an edge in combat situations. That's what they DO! You might also complain that personal shield is cheap because "I totally was shooting him first but he didn't die and killed me anyway." Or whine about second wind saying "I threw three plasma grenades at him and suddenly he healed. WTF!!!?!?"

Or perhaps advanced targeting "How did the sniper know I was almost dead and shoot me? That's cheap he can magically know that!!!!"

I like him. 8)

and are you people stupid. once they remove the glitch they wil then have to worry about tehre stamina again which will cut in to it and rexo like a hot knife through butter. atleast i would imagine! What is with everyone and trying to change everything inthe game to fit your fighting style. everyone, and worse on this forum than the official, bitches about anything that can doanything to there style of fighting and is trying to get it removed. Ad now because of it all the smaller characters, like infs and medics etc, have been wiped our. They only did it because of shit like this. atleast the OF people are to stupid to put up enough of an argument to get htem to change things. THINK ABOUT IT!

The thing has had a glitch for how long. Stop bitching, and stop trying to make them completely redesign it! Let them fix the known problem. And for heavens sake if you then complain because its affective at all in combat because someone shot you, even though from the users side htey have to put up with all the things like stamana drain and they killed you by being patient and using it right, just shoot yourself self. Ive seen all my favorite things about htis game be wiped out already. This is getting annoying! Your not going to have a game much longer at this rate.

So please tell me when this game gets fucked up enough the Devs will back the whole thing up to its orriginal design.

I think the only thing that should be done is teh have the glitch removed so that the stamina drain can once again have an affect on people who use surge like it was meant. Anything more, i beleive, would end up just being overkill to please everyone who just wants to neuter it so it cant ever be used against them.

Surge was never a problem...INTILL... someone stumbled onto the Agile + Surge + HA combo.
From there things just kinda snowballed as players found that it was a very EASY way to get high kill runs...and we will not EVEN go into the exploits that came with it.

Surge is not realy the problem right now either...it is the COMBO that is upsetting everyone. It is just like when everyone and thier dog found out what a GREAT MOWING machine the AMS was before the BP. It got WAY out of hand..and in order to keep this game on the right track, it needed to be addressed..and was fixed.

Can we say, IQ test required to play htis game from now on! 8) Please please please dont let me hear anyone saying htis on here. just let the stamina drain do its work. i dont see anyother implant that is armor specific. that would just be cruel. If none of the other implants dont have that sorta extreme on them please dont push them to do it on this one. Just look at it form a purely balance issue, and i mean one considering more than on peice of armor?!?!?!

ok he even admits it and wants to change it because it will sitll let people use it. 8\

Something realy needs to be done about the Jackrabbits. If they could fix the code to prevent warping...then I think the Surge protest would die out...but my crystal ball says the EASIEST way will to change Surge in some way.

Friends dont let this happen to friends!

Yes modifying the entire game, when you could just fix a simple glitch, is the best possible answer. Are we all seeing the patter now!

Everyone has gotten completely inpatient and has stopped trying to worry about how much impact things will have on hte game, and stopped carring if it affects anyone but themselves. LOOK AT YOURSELFS, MAN!!!! this is getting crazy. And its just as bad here as on the OF. So get a grip on yourselfs!

this isnt to be obnoxious, im just in a weird mood.(not including that last paragraph) 8) Have to blow off energy. But that still leave every thing i said as ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!!

Just remember now if the stamina drain has to be considered the heavier the weight the quicker the drain. Im just hoping that includes weapons weight. IF thats not in it they need to add that. ;)

I wanna kill you Otis! :doh::ugh:

Edit: me has an idea! Lets take the whole game back into beta with only the most balanced and considerate players and let them really go over game balance and fix the whole thing. ^^ IE people who can look at the design of all things in the game and think of more subtle way to fix things and encourage game play.

[Veteran]

What is with everyone and trying to change everything inthe game to fit your fighting style.

I use Surge all the time and I'm always saying that it's busted. I would rejoice if it were removed entirely.

Surge is broken on many levels. I will never accept it as fair in a game with a CSHD model or a game that proposes to make vehicles valuable. Running from a geowarp to a base on one tank of stamina is just wrong.

[Ait'al]

Then they should just increase the amount of stamina drain a little, or something to that affect.

[Warborn]

What is with everyone and trying to change everything inthe game to fit your fighting style.

Using Surge and a bolt driver I'm able to kill a lot of people by shooting them twice point blank. They can't land enough shots on me, and I only need to land two shots on them, which is extremely easy at point blank. I will get far less kills up close (FAR less, as in I probably won't be able to kill anyone who survives the first hit by the bolt driver) if I couldn't Surge while using my bolt driver. But, I'm still all for it, because killing people that way reminds me of when I get killed by surging Jackhammer people. There are better ways to die than to be killed by some surging guy.

[Vernam]

I like the idea of making reinforced exo a pre-requisite of heavy assault, but a lot of people don't like reinforced exo, they should at least give the reinforced exosuit a buff, like an extra 50 armor.

[SilverLord]

Ugh, I say they do #1 and #3, #2 is just not the solotion, thtas just too many cert points, I hate reinforced exo.

[Queensidecastle]

Surge in Agile is just too good ATM. Making rexo a prereq is not the solution however. Sony just needs to tweak up the stamina drain for situations where it makes sense. Agile wants to carry HA? ok great, Surge will drain stamina like crazy if your equipped with HA. The idea being that you dont have the armor level to support such a heavy weapon. Rexo in HA with surge could stay the way it is now and Standard vest shouldnt be able to surge with HA at all.

I dont like the no surge with any weapons drawn option at all. Mostly because this screws infiltrators who need surge to zip around

[Liquidtide]

Ugh, I say they do #1 and #3, #2 is just not the solotion, thtas just too many cert points, I hate reinforced exo.

Don't Forget the new certification program comming soon. That should free you 2 or 3 points.

As for balancing surge. About time, I'm NC and had HA for a whole 4 days before going back to SA. I don't think it's just the n00bhammers that use it, I see MCG guys speedily jumping around all the time too...

~Tide

[ghost018]

Any way you look at it, there won't be anymore Surgehammers. I prefer number three though.

ghost

[Veteran]

Any weapon + Surge can be devastating. Surge without a weapon can be devastating to game balance also, like carrying a stolen module back to a friendly base before the enemy has a fair chance to reverse it. Kind of like giving a motorcycle to your receivers in football so they can drive the ball home.

[TeraHertz]

Watch the VS and TR rejoice!
\o/ |o/ \o| |o|
Long live Planetside! SurgeMonkies are dead!


Lets see how the anti warp goes, but personaly #3 is by far the best option in my view.

[Firefly]

I posted my two cents in typical Firefly-Flaming-Sony-Boards fashion. It's what I do. Apparently logic is busted over there, so if you can't beat them then join them.

I am an infiltrator. I use surge. Frequently. I use it to get from point A to point B. I also use it in Reinforced armor when I am in a base and need to get somewhere ASAP. So I'm a fairly big user of the Surge implant. I would prefer if surge were removed altogether, and the existing implants were fixed, and a new one introduced. BARRING THAT, I would prefer to see surge fixed- since that's nigh impossible, I would prefer to see weapons+surge removed. I do not advocate making Reinforced a prerequisite to Heavy Assault, *BUT* I also don't see why that's a big deal- so someone please kindly enlighten me?

Since I believe in pointing out a problem AND providing a solution, I proposed an alternative, as did a few others. That's called constructive criticism, and the alternative is to whine and moan and not fix it- that's bitching. Sure a lot more people had alternatives but they were, in fact, blatantly stupid. Thus I say that a few have provided good imput. My alternative that I proposed, which will go unnoticed like my stupid fanfic story, was that they make Agile Armor its own certification- in hindsight, I think that's a bad idea but it does provide a temporary fix maybe. I have another alternative- make the stamina drain in standard, agile or reinforced SIGNIFICANTLY increased, and even MORE SO when holding a weapon in this armor. This appeases the infiltrators who use surge to get away, PLUS the logic-factor in that line of thought is that an infiltrator suit is NOT armor. There is no armor protection, period.

Now my rant.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that one guy in cheap-ass agile armor holding a Jackhammer while surging around can kill five MAXes and nearly a platoon of reinforced-armor assault infantry. I don't care if you have all the skill in the world, and I especially don't like the excuse "Well I use whatever's at my disposal, so get some skill!" That's bullshit, and everyone knows it- that's a fucking crutch to explain how much of a cheap lame-ass the person is.

It takes skill, REAL skill, to avoid being killed while in standard armor or an infiltrator suit. It takes real skill to kill anyone with a knife or a Supressor. It takes absolutely no skill to sit around and wait for your surge implant to kick in, pick up your CQB weapon and then speed around like Speedy Gonzales and spam a hotzone with larger-than-life bullets. Oh- and my least favorite other excuse- "Then stay away from being killed!"

Right, asshole. I'm supposed to shell out cash so I can sit on my ass in Sanctuary and listen to ignorant, illiterate bastard kids type in all-caps and swear worse than me and talk in something worse than ebonics- leet-speek. I pay to play this game so I can have fun, as do most of the rest of us. It ceases to be fun when you have a herd of zero-talent assclowns virtually straight out of Sanctuary with his six certs dumped into Medium and Heavy Assault taking down skilled players with a single trigger squeeze-and-hold.

[Acaila]

Play all empires until atleast br10 before you think surge is predominant only with NC. All empires have an equal share of agile HA toting surge monkeys. The only thing NC have that makes surge so powerful for them is the secondary JH; surge, {insert surge trick here}, boom chucka boomboomboom.

I personally think forcing rexo to be worn while using HA is a great idea. It makes rexo more valuable, instead of being basically a waste of 3 certs unless your playing a support role, it will decrease the amount of HA fielded.

Sweeper + surge agile is almost as powerful as HA + surge + agile in skilled hands, so unless surge itself is modified imo the problems will still exist.

[BDMJ]

If the warping is fixed, then I don't think there will be a problem with surge anymore.

Right now the advantage of using surge is that it exploits the game's poor netcode and causes you to appear to jump from floor to ceiling and bounce through walls. The issue is not getting into CQB range too quickly, it's that your opponent has no hope of hitting you while you close the distance. No warping will mean that MA users have a good shot at killing the surge monkies until about 25m, when the HA power really comes into effect.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

Make HA and SV have weapon weight and then make it slow you down. Then impliment this : Rexos dont suffer from weapon weight. Its rather easy to impliment it all and would make it so that HA or SA + any armor other than rexo would be less viable. However a Rexo should not be faster than a Agile with MA or lower. Also the weight factors would reduce the nuber of people running around with decimators unless they were rexo.

[Firefly]

I just thought of something-

So what, you'd now have to have a certification in reinforced armor to get Heavy Assault.

Does that mean you can't strap on agile armor AFTER you get the reinforced certification and get your heavy-assault-thing? Nope. As far as we know, you'd just need the certification.

Unless they make the Heavy-Assault weapon a two-rifle-slotter, in which case I'd like to see a weapons expansion where you can carry around heavy machine guns and mortars that take up two slots. But... then again, they could write some neato code/script/thingie that says you can't get the weapon unless you're wearing reinforced, in which case you're kinda screwed either way. But as I said before- "As far as we know, you'd just need the certification."

[BadAsh]

I just thought of something-

So what, you'd now have to have a certification in reinforced armor to get Heavy Assault.

Does that mean you can't strap on agile armor AFTER you get the reinforced certification and get your heavy-assault-thing? Nope. As far as we know, you'd just need the certification.

Unless they make the Heavy-Assault weapon a two-rifle-slotter, in which case I'd like to see a weapons expansion where you can carry around heavy machine guns and mortars that take up two slots. But... then again, they could write some neato code/script/thingie that says you can't get the weapon unless you're wearing reinforced, in which case you're kinda screwed either way. But as I said before- "As far as we know, you'd just need the certification."

I'm sure they would just code it so you could not equip the weapon without the armor. Kind of like trying to drive most vehicles in a Rexo now, you get "invalid armor" and can't get in or purchase from a terminal. So I think you'd need the cert AND need to be wearing the Rexo to equip the HA.

BadAsh

[Firefly]

Oh I'm sure they would too, but so far there's been no mention of this at all, it just says "We may decide to make it so Reinforced is a pre-req for Heavy Assault". I don't read too much into it because as we've seen with the Lodestar and its one crappy little vehicle slot, all this speculation leads to a complete different end result than what everyone expected.

[FireZ]

I vote for number 3. If people with agile only want to get pwned by me and my reinf exo/HA then let em.

[Queensidecastle]

I think the core of the problem is that astetically, the Rexo HA trooper should be the most powerfull grunt on the ground. Unfortunately because of Surge, the Agile HA trooper has become the combination of choice for pure infantry killing.

This isnt the way it should work. The downside to being rexo is that you are easier to hit while at the same time able to withstand fire longer making a more specialized assault trooper. It is not a balanced situation for an agile (less certs) to have and advantage against a rexo going toe to toe.

Obviously sony realizes this and is planning on taking some action. Removing the cert or restricting the cert to holstered weapons is not necessary to fixing the problem but most certaily is the easiest fix. The proper fix is just to use the system already in place for limiting Surge: Stamina. It needs to drain much faster when a trooper is trying to use surge in Agile while HA is equipped. Rexo HA with surge needs to be the baseline and stay the way it is. Agile HA with surge needs to be tweaked down and Standard HA with surge should probably not function at all

[TheRagingGerbil]

The simplest fix is to add a weight value to the weapons and equipment you are carrying.

Looking at it in this way would mean the an Infiltrator carrying no weapons and equipment would move the fastest, while a rexo packing HA and Decis plus full equipment loadout would move the slowest.

I know all the RPG haters are going to bark in how incumberance should stay in that world, but I think it would fight very nicely in the PS world as well.

Adding weight to items would force people to actually think about the consquences of packing 400 rounds of ammo into a battle. It would force people to question the necessity of packing extra med kits that slow them down, or hope that there is a field medic available. The same goes for sidarms and such. I carry a pistol in many of my loadouts...never been used except for a handful of times. If that pistol slowed me down some, I wouldn't pack it.

Let's work out a scenerio here:

For every 1 pound you are carrying, your speed is cut by 1/4 a percent. This value holds true for all weight carried up to the limit set by the armor you are wearing.

Any additional weight above the recommend level set by the armor would yield 1/2 a percent loss in speed.

Armor weight would be 1, 10, 20, and 30 lbs Inf, Standard, Agile, and Rexo respectively. The recommend weight capacity for each would be 4 times the armor weight itself, so 4, 40, 80, and 120 lbs.

Lets say the rexo weighs 30 pounds and recommends less than 120 lbs of gear. Running empty in rexo would then yield a 7.5% loss in speed.

Still with me...good.

Currently, a rexo can pack 5 decis plus some extra stuff. If the deci weighed in at...oh say 45 pounds, you would be able to carry two of them before you went over the recommended weight. So 30lbs + 45lbs +45lbs = 120lbs, which would yield a speed loss of 30%.

Now if that same guy wanted to pack all five decis the equation changes a bit.

5 decis x 45lbs = 225lbs +30lbs(armor) = 255 lbs.

255lbs total - 150lbs armor/load = 105 lbs.

The armor/load of 150 lbs would give a speed loss of 37.5%

The additional load of 105 lbs would drastically incumber the soldier so he would have an additonal spped loss of 52.5%

Overall this soldier would have his speed reduced by almost 90%. This would make him utterly useless in the battle field and that much more realistic. Looking at the numbers would mean he was carrying 255 lbs of gear. No man could jump and run with that much weight.

Just like I added a weight to the deci, the same could go for all weapons. Heavy assault could weigh in at like 75 lbs. Throw some ammo in there at 2 lbs each, lets say 6 boxes, you are up to 87lbs. Finally, three med kits for good measure, now we are sittling at 90lbs. Agile armor weighs 20 lbs and recommends 80 lbs load. 90 + 20 = 110 - 100 = 10 lbs overage. This soldier, your typical surge monkey, would have a speed loss of 32.5 percent.

[Queensidecastle]

EDIT: Responding to your edit

I dont like the idea of true encomberance for Planetside. Its a bit too complicated. However a rexo because of the 3 extra certs it costs should make a better HA trooper while surging than an Agile. One idea could be that the Rexo has builtin cybernetics that allow for greater weight to be carried effectivly so stamina wouldnt drain as fast while using HA

[BadAsh]

Further thoughts:

Actually after thinking about it for a while I�d like to see all 3 solutions implemented. Fixing the warping is important and I don�t think anyone would argue that, or at lease admit to disagreeing. I�m sure there are many people who love it and rely on it to a large extent.

The idea of reinforced armor being required to wield a heavy assault weapon appeals to be because it slows down the heavy hitters and prevents pilots and drivers from having heavy assault. That to me is a further trade off for having their powerful vehicle. I don�t think a reaver pilot needs the advantage of a heavy assault weapon once he loses his aircraft. That was the purpose behind not being able to wear reinforced armor and be able to pilot in the first place� to reduce the �one man army� capability of singular players.

I also really like the idea of needing to holster your weapons to activate surge. Being able to surge and fight at the same time is a very powerful combination as everyone has already discovered. In a fight speed and mobility is of utmost importance. In my reinforced armor and with my mini-chain gun I can use surge to flank a MAX unit and stay behind him. Nothing he can do except wait for me to land enough AP rounds (bout 75) so he can respawn. A VS MAX can jet away, but unless he has a safe place to land I�ll complete my gunning and surging process when he comes down. One thing though, I�d like to see it implemented so that activating surge automatically holsters your weapons and that when you draw a weapon it automatically disengages surge to make the process smoother for the surge user.

In conclusion I�d love to see all 3 put into effect. This would fix a nasty and overly exploited bug in the game. It would further limit the usage of HA as a primary weapon which IMHO is a good thing. Finally, it would force people to slow down to fight which is very good for any FPS played over the internet.

[Hamma]

I think a combination of Rexo requirement AND no surging while having weapon drawn is a good call.

[Rayder]

Most people that use MAXs don't understand that walls are your friends when dealing with people that don't have deci or av.

[Searo]

Ai'tal-
Worst post ever. You are trying to justify surge by saying that we aren't any good.
"Newbs! Just because you can't hit someone warping around you cry for a nerf!"

Yes, there is a glitch. Surge causes it. Even if they remove the glitching, the HA users are still going to pop around a corner and blast you to smithereens before you can react.

What? We're worse than offical forums? Our whining killed the medics and engineers? Clarify.

Also, I think you're misinterpreting the glitch. The glitch isn't stamina drain, it's the fact that surge allows the user to warp across screens.

Stamina drain is not an effective limit! Standard armor can surge for 2 minutes according to what I've heard. Agile is a decent time, and reinforced is balanced at a short time. But people have discovered, that a super-fast Standard with a MCG can own any other armor with the same MCG.

Also Ai'tal, I pray that your last paragraph was sarcastic. If you believe that a company would gather information on the best beta testers, close their product from general public, test it for a few months, and then re-open, you are insane.
I would quit and not come back, and 90% of the population also would.

I believe all three should be implemented, but HA should cost 3 CP.

[STEALTHKILLER]

Lets just let stealthers able to have surge, that will sole the problem....


Anyway, everyone has some acess to surge,agile,JH. Its called surge,agile,swepper.

[noxious]

Are they serious? Rexo a prereq for HA. rexo is the BIGGEST waist of three certs in the game. It slows you down, only provides any real extra protection against small arms, and drains stamina like there's no tomorrow. I don't mind the idea of forcing players to unequip their weapon before suring, but I swear if they force all HA users to get rexo I am just gonna snap.

[NoSurrender]

im so upset because the TR and VS just act like MCG+Surge and Lasher+surge ARENT deadly. alll sides weapons are good in certain situations. People dont like the JH because surge is a huge boost to that weapon because the JH is best in up close situations. I use HA to keep competitive. I get killed by the MCG oh so many times because i am out of range for the jackhammer. I know any TR who is fair will admit that when a jackhammer is not in close proximity that it is not nearly as deadly. The lasher shines in backdoor type areas. 4-5 Vanu spamming lashers held off a crapload of NC because they could have area dmg. I personally think HA should be replaced by some other form of weapons.

The reason JH users get so many kills is because most of the fighting is indoors in CLOSE COMBAT AREAS!!! that is where the jackhammer SHINES!!! now if the MCG or LASHER was ideal for those situations the other 2 empires would bitch and moan NON STOP! so i say FUCK HA!

[FireZ]

I think a combination of Rexo requirement AND no surging while having weapon drawn is a good call.

/me claps

This would limit the no talent tards out of the sanc from having heavy assault to begin with. Thus making them earn their kills with MA and possibly gaining some skill along the way because they will have to learn to kill the people that have made it there already.

I would definitly like to see them limit surge to no weapons out. Yes the JH is a joke when you can get up with the weapon that quick in point blank range....but ya know what...so it the lasher and the MCG. The JH is, however, the only weapon that you can insta-kill at close range with a little less than full health. But the problem here is that is why it is gimped at range as well...both the lasher and the MCG have a better range than it. If you have to surge in and then pull out the gun...it will cause a lot more skill then previous because there is an extreme chance that the person that you are surging to will cut you down on the way :)

[Queensidecastle]

I am actually rather dissapointed that those 3 choices are all we are presented with for discussion. Surge itself is NOT the problem. The problem is the warping effect and the unintended effect of Agile making a better attack trooper than a Rexo. This problems can be fixed by other means

[Vick]

HA is broken, surge is warping. Nerf HA, fix surge.

I am sweeper - surge, sweeper takes alot of skill to use, it is not spam like all the HA weapons.

I am not some nuub running around spamming JH/MCG/lasher while jumping-surging to incude warps.

I use surge to move around my target faster so I can avoid fire while I aim my sweeper.

I will be happy if the warps are fixed, that is plenty. Everything else needs to be HA nerfs. HA is dumb, skilless, and overpowered

[BadAsh]

I will be happy if the warps are fixed, that is plenty. Everything else needs to be HA nerfs. HA is dumb, skilless, and overpowered

Vick,

With full respect for your opinion� I disagree completely with your synopsis. Heavy weapons are powerful and rightfully so. They are not cheap in cert points so you have to sacrifice other certs to obtain them. PS is a game of situational tactics determined by your certs and currently equipped items, a FPS game, and has some RPG elements rolled into one and it�s pretty fairly balanced. Everything is a trade off as it should be.

Let�s say I got HA and with your 4 cert points you got a Reaver. Outside in the open you�d murder me every time. The ONLY thing I could do is try and find cover and force you to use your rockets to take me out from behind that tree or rock. Now when you land your reaver and try to cap a base or tower, I have better odds against you and there is your trade off. Note however that HA vs. MA is no guaranteed spank fest as is the HA vs. Reaver example. So MA does have a fighting chance, especially at medium to long range. Again it�s situational tactics.

You getting owned by HA at close range? Well, that�s how it should work. Just like if I tried going toe to toe with my HA vs. a Heavy or Light Tank. Or If I tried a long range battle with HA vs. a Sniper. You have to match certs and gear to hang in a given situation. Not willing to spend the points? Then live with the consequences of the weakness you selected. We all have them. For me the choice was HA or Reaver. So every time a Reaver busts me in the open I always think to myself �man, if I had just selected reaver�� But, I think it inappropriate to start flaming the reaver pilot for the " dumb, skilless, and overpowered" cert that capitalizes on the current weakness in my cert/equipment build.

BadAsh

[TeraHertz]

I can't wait for them to implement this. It'll make a nice christmas present. For some people I fear, it may come too late. For others, the skilless NC wonders will moan that they aren't able take out entire squads and quit.

After surge is nerfed, what will I moan about O_o?
There will be nothing left! :p

[Hamma]

I am actually rather dissapointed that those 3 choices are all we are presented with for discussion. Surge itself is NOT the problem. The problem is the warping effect and the unintended effect of Agile making a better attack trooper than a Rexo. This problems can be fixed by other means
I agree that is a LARGE part of it, however that WILL be fixed in the next patch or so - after that we shall see what comes.

[Vick]

Spam weapons suck.

JH, MCG, lasher, reaver rockets, pounder = spam, no skill involved

I dont get killed by that stuff alot anymore, but when I do, it is lame. Why should I be killed by a player who just holds down his mouse button and points next to me?

If HA weapons were better then MA, but were not spam, I would be happy.

[321]

I guess the NC will have to think of a new tactic becouse there will be NO more flying around with Jackhammers baby, NO MORE!
:rock:

They are discussing it. They aren't sure yet.

[Eldanesh]

I would advocate that after the warping is fixed, no further action be taken.

Why you say? Well, the restrictions on HA would be nice, (I kinda like the Rexo requirement for HA.) however to change too much at once would probably result in a really crappy weapon option that few people would use. (Think of the lasher Mk2, would you say they buffed too much at once? Well, just don't nerf HA too much. ;) )

Now, if they do put in the Rexo requirement for HA I will probably find it harder to get a lot of kills... Rexo w/ sweeper I LOVE agile HA because they die so easily. :evil: (I fear Rexo with cycler more than some guy surging around with MCG. :p )

In any case, I have really not noticed this alleged problem with HA, I see gauss/pulsars/cyclers just as often as JH/lasher/MCG. Most of the times when I see someone trying to jump around w/ HA they get wasted in seconds anyway. If they do make Rexo a prerequisite for HA then I hope them make it 2 certs. :groovy: then I can get a reaver!

[Warborn]

I would advocate that after the warping is fixed, no further action be taken.

Why you say? Well, the restrictions on HA would be nice, (I kinda like the Rexo requirement for HA.) however to change too much at once would probably result in a really crappy weapon option that few people would use.

Maybe it's just me, but I would actually be very happy if HA weapons became rare. I wouldn't mind some pretty heft restrictions on such powerful weapons at all.

[TeraHertz]

I use HA. Alot. Today I tried using just a sweeper/pulsar/deci loadout, and did pretty well. Suddenly though, the enemy switched from Rexo/MCG to Agile/Surge/MCG to combat me and the sweeper and pulsar became uselss, forcing me to switch back to lasher.

Using the lasher all the time is getting old now. I'm BR17 and looking to use something else, but nothing else cuts it against these surging fools unless I go agile surge myself. I am seriously considering not returing after the holidays.

[Hamma]

Maybe it's just me, but I would actually be very happy if HA weapons became rare. I wouldn't mind some pretty heft restrictions on such powerful weapons at all.
/signed

[Queensidecastle]

I agree with Hamma. From the begining I was against the Heavy assault buff. They should have just nerfed the Jackhammer down to an acceptable level as opposed to buffing all the HA to instagib level. If I wanted to play instagibs, I could load UT and have at it, but noooo, they wouldnt listen and made HA way to powerfull. Part of the downside of this was that MAX suits became a joke. Except for Vanu, MAX suits are a joke. Sure thier killing power is fine, but its barely better and in some cases worse than a Rexo/HA/SA. MAXs should be the "heavy assault" on the battlefield, but in stead HA was buffed to MAX effectivness with no MAX suit limitations. Now currently with how easily MAXs get owned by decimators, they really only rock as AA troopers.

[Zatrais]

I vote for 2 and 3. Sick of surgermonkeys.

[BadAsh]

but noooo, they wouldnt listen and made HA way to powerfull. Part of the downside of this was that MAX suits became a joke. Except for Vanu, MAX suits are a joke. Sure thier killing power is fine, but its barely better and in some cases worse than a Rexo/HA/SA. MAXs should be the "heavy assault" on the battlefield, but in stead HA was buffed to MAX effectivness with no MAX suit limitations. Now currently with how easily MAXs get owned by decimators, they really only rock as AA troopers.

Worse than Rexo/HA/SA? I should hope so...

MAX = 3 cert points for an AI MAX

Rexo/HA/SA = 12 cert points (including the MA pre-req)

I should hope the guy who invested 12 cert points in being heavy infantry would out fight the guy who invested just 3.

BadAsh

[Flammey]

I got a solution. We'll give everyone bows and arrows. TR will be the Indians, NC will be the Americans, and VS will be the British. We'll all have a grand old time.

[TeraHertz]

NC arrows are uber! They have no travel time! Nerf the Natives!

[Queensidecastle]

Worse than Rexo/HA/SA? I should hope so...

MAX = 3 cert points for an AI MAX

Rexo/HA/SA = 12 cert points (including the MA pre-req)

I should hope the guy who invested 12 cert points in being heavy infantry would out fight the guy who invested just 3.


Nah, the MAX cant do anything but shoot. Hell, they cant even open doors for gosh sakes. The limitations placed on them by thier suits more than makes up for the specialized cert costs.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

Im very curiouse about ppl opinions on encumberance? Gerbil did a nice job of elaborating on the idea.

I agree with the concept (but not the numbers, weight values, and max weight capacity). I would only change the fact that there should be a minimum weight value. While under this weight value you incure no emcumberance.

[Aen]

Option #3 is the best for the game. IMO.

But would that take my boomer away from me? :(

Edit: Also with #3, that would almost guarantee more tactical strikes and more use of MA. Alot more cover fire then shoot, etc....

[flypengy]

If you can't hold a JH while surging SOE will effectively have gimped the NC HA which requires you to close in on the enemy to be used effectively.

Instead of causing more frustrations with HA, they need to just fix the client side prediction coding...

[Veteran]

Tactics get you close to your target. Moving 40kph to get close to your target is a bit simplistic, no?

[Aen]

Tactics get you close to your target. Moving 40kph to get close to your target is a bit simplistic, no?

I agree. :D

[Hamma]

Changing surge is not going to kill the JH. :rofl: