Surge / agile / JH

[RagingSpeedhorn]

What do you think? Over the last couple of weeks I have seen more and more NC using this set up, in one instance a full squad.

It's very difficult to defend against and I have witnesssed a surgile NC killing 4 TR Rexo/HA troops in under 30 seconds. I admit he was a good tactically, however is it right to have a set up which allows a player to kill outright without allowing the target to either defend themselves or take evasive action.

[FireZ]

that example is exactly why they are thinking about either making surge not usable with a weapon out or HA only when you have Reinf Exo.

[WritheNC]

Do a search on these boards. You'll fine more than a fair share of threads on this.

[RagingSpeedhorn]

Heh,

I serched for agile and surge. It took me 15 posts of wondering why everyone had highlighted urge and agile in yellow to realise that RagingSpeedhorn------->stupid

[dscytherulez]

Blah, blah, blah...I play all empires and ive never seen this as such a big deal. Why dont you surge? Granted a surging jack will have an advantage indoors...THATS WHAT A SHOTGUN IS MADE FOR! You people dont understand. You cant just balance every god damn weapon in the game to exactly the same as everything else. Jackhammers have theyre weaknesses too! Outdoors they are shit and same goes with the gauss...its pretty much the worst weapon at ranges, tied with the pulsar. So after you nerf the JH back to the stoneage, think about the ADVANTAGE you have over us and use it...A JH user outdoors without surge is basically target practice. We pretty much need it to close the gap between our enemies. I found that i lived longer outdoors with an agile and surge, but indoors in my REXO, and playing on the other empires i never really had a problem with surging jackhammers. You really have to realize we NEED that advantage indoors. Killing that surge would even hinder us MORE outdoors where we are the weakest...nothing like strolling up to your enemy 100 yards a way with your weapon holstered. Hey, maybe hell hold his fire until you get there---or not! Tell me this, how many times have you been killed with a JH outdoors? indoors? total? Now...total the TR and VS numbers indoor and outdoor and see what you come up with...

[Jagd]

All it took for us, was to read your first post. ;)

[Biohazzard56]

The JH outright is pretty fucking cheap ill admit even thought im NC and that i used to use JH myself. But surge your self, i use guass now and surge is the best way to take down enemies. But if you need to give up an implant so you can contend in combat is a bad thing, be interesting to see how devs handle this topic.

[Rarzo]

To make it short: It just isn't fair to us...

[BadAsh]

Jackhammers have theyre weaknesses too! Outdoors they are shit

The MCG and Lasher have a "sweet spot" which is somewhere between short and medium range. The JH however, has it's "sweet spot" at CQB ranges. If you can keep the JH at a distance you can own them, but its just too easy to agile or even rexo surge with the hammer and spank.

Also, the JH is the only HA with 2 modes of fire: Instagib and Ownage. In instagib mode (tri-shot) you just run right at an enemy, and when you run into them pull the triger and count your exp reward. This works great if they don't see you comming from the side or behind. In Ownage mode it's more powerful in CQB than any HA or MA weapon in the game. Surge guarantes CQB most of the time.

This agile + surge + JH combo is why the NC garner over 10% more kills per player than any other empire (see any of the various stat sites) and why threads like this will continue to pop up.

BadAsh

[Biohazzard56]

Not being able to use surge if you have HA in hand is the best idea ive ever heard of, letting people with guass still surge would be a great way to balance

[Fragmatic]

I disagree with the gauss being lousy, its exellent at range, I use them more than cyclers, and I'm TR

[Biohazzard56]

Yes, Gauss does own and i love taking out MCGers with Gauss :D

[Rbstr]

The JH is good indoors get used to it its a shotgun and made for indoors. Take it on at a range greater than point blank and it sucks. It can get a bit cheap i know i've played as other empires and its frustrating to get killed like that. The devs are going to make it so you need reinforced to cary HA weps (wich will own and i would have wanted it anyway)

The guass is ok and i use it as a allpurpous wepon but a cycler slaughters everything when compared to the other two.
The guass should have alot more punch than it does, i'm talking desert eagle punch, and should have a smaller COF, but with a large bloom after a 3 shot burst.
And the pulsar needs something to its does have the AP rounds but it should do plasma damage to like alot of VS wepons.

damn my internet connection i've had to retype this 5 times befeor it posted

[1024]

Hit them with a jammer. Slow them down to crawl.

[RagingSpeedhorn]

Blah, blah, blah
Nope, just asking opinions

So after you nerf the JH back to the stoneage
Not nerfed, it's the agile / surge / JH combo thats the issue

Tell me this, how many times have you been killed with a JH outdoors? indoors? total?
About equal. If you get agile/surged indoors or outdoors, you cannot take evasive action, and you die.

The question isn't about the JH, but the combination of agile / surge / JH. Even fellow NC say it's a pretty cheap lamer no skill way of killing..

[Lithpope]

I play TR and I don't have a problem with it, used to Surge/MCG, and It works quite effectivly as well. Indoors it is pretty much a fair fight IMO, a little more mobility balanced with less protection. Outdoors there is simply too many ways to gib a Surge/JH/monkey before he even gets close, as someone mentioned a Jammer grenade or maybye CE ( I have killed many a Surge/JH/monkey with a well place mine or spit turret, they rely on movement to gain advantage and a spit turret just eats them up). My only real gripe with the JH is the secondary mode, that needs to go, no other HA has anything near equivalent.

[MuNsTeR]

yeah its a fricking shotgun.. and NC is supposed to b powerful

[Biohazzard56]

I have noticed the MCG slaughters everything indoors especially with Surge

[TeraHertz]

On Werner I've hardly seen any. Or maybe I have seen them, I'm just kicking their asses now that they can't cheat so much.

[Veteran]

I easily score kills with JH at 30 meters, so don't tell me it's only good at point blank.

You think Agile is scary? Try Standard/Surge/JH. 1:40 of Surge plus a one-shot kill. The funny part is that people defend it as fair. It's cheap and now that everyone figured out the trick, it's got to go.

edit: Surge is the problem, but as for Heavy Assault:

Jackhammer: one-shot kill

Lasher: Massive damage when multiplied by the number of lashes in a crowded area. Deadly out to 80m.

MCG: Takes a minimum of a full second to kill an enemy at full health, causes no splash, has no one-shot kill. Hideously ammo wasteful. The weakest of the Heavy Assault, it is usually praised by NC and VS pretending to be TR so their pet HA won't get nerfed.

Now that I play NC, I'm still going to point out that TR has garbage for equipment. The Prowler, Maurauder, MCG, Pounder and Striker are the weakest in their fields. There's no argument, it's just the truth. You wonder why TR are starving for population? Get your head out of your partisan ass and admit that TR got shafted hard. Maybe the devs want NC to be 'on top'. They'd better rethink that idea, or TR will go extinct.

[Mudflap]

TR do not have the worst equipment. I see tons of MCG users. MCG/Surge rocks just as much as JH/Surge. At point blank, that damn MCG tears shit apart. Beyond that, it's the only HA weapon that's worth a damn at longer ranges.

The pounder rocks, if you can get 3 people in it. The Prowler isn't too bad, but I'll admit that it's the worst of the tanks. The Pounder maybe the weakest in its field, but indoors, it's the best Max/AI defense there is.

Back on subject, the surge/JH combo is lame. I've seen pansies with audio amp standing in a stairwell waiting for someone to come, then they switch to surge and rule the unsuspecting person. It's pathetic. There is no defense against this except running with your weapon out and surge ready, and having ten guys at your back. Even then the damn JH guy will get 3-6 kills. That should tell you how fair it is.

[Jagd]

Surge + MCG = Wall full of bullet holes. You can use it to close range, but you gotta stop, crouch and then fire if you want to hit anything. And using it at range? Sure, maybe if you have a buddy lobbing plasma nades at them too.

[shadowseed]

Whine whine whine. Every empire has its advantages and disadvantages. Dont like the JH ?, well steal one and use it yourself.

I hate the TR prowler and the VS Magmower... so i steal them and use them against there dumn-struck owners.

Deal with it!.

[Madcow]

It's funny how all the NC come out of the woodwork to defend the JH tooth and nail. Kudos to Biohazzard for actually being objective about it.

[shadowseed]

It's funny how all the NC come out of the woodwork to defend the JH tooth and nail. Kudos to Biohazzard for actually being objective about it.

Well that could be said for all the threads about other empires. If i started a thread about "Neft the Prowler", or "Buff the lasher", you would get every TR/VS and his dog defending there empires weapons.

I personally think the NC MAX's special ability was pulled out of a xmas cracker, but i dont start threads whining about it, i except it, cos i know that things like the JH make up for it.

Come on fellas, play the hand your delt, cos for every 2 of clubs, youve got a ace of dimonds in there.

[Madcow]

Shadowseed, maybe you've missed it but the TR have gotten the ugly end of the nerf stick in a lot of different ways. I haven't even played my TR chars for a while and don't feel any special allegiance to them, but the TR had the Pounder and the Striker. Those were the two strong points, and I had the same mind set that I could live with some of the weaknesses (the MCG at the time was the biggest pile of crap available, or at least would have been if the lasher hadn't been a turd on a stick). Vanguard owns Prowler? No problem, we have Pounder and Striker. MCG sucks? No problem, we have Pounder and Striker.

The problem is so many NC and VS complained (and the stats correlated with their complaints) that the devs took action and nerfed those strong points back to the stone age. Now TR and VS have complained about the surge/agile/JH (and the stats correlate with the complaints) and the devs have stated they're going to do something about it. It's inevitable, no reason to fight it.

I've tried to remain objective about the different empires, I play all 3. There's a reason that NC consistently has the highest populations across the servers though.

[shadowseed]

Shadowseed, maybe you've missed it but the TR have gotten the ugly end of the nerf stick in a lot of different ways. I haven't even played my TR chars for a while and don't feel any special allegiance to them, but the TR had the Pounder and the Striker. Those were the two strong points, and I had the same mind set that I could live with some of the weaknesses (the MCG at the time was the biggest pile of crap available, or at least would have been if the lasher hadn't been a turd on a stick). Vanguard owns Prowler? No problem, we have Pounder and Striker. MCG sucks? No problem, we have Pounder and Striker.

The problem is so many NC and VS complained (and the stats correlated with their complaints) that the devs took action and nerfed those strong points back to the stone age. Now TR and VS have complained about the surge/agile/JH (and the stats correlate with the complaints) and the devs have stated they're going to do something about it. It's inevitable, no reason to fight it.

I've tried to remain objective about the different empires, I play all 3. There's a reason that NC consistently has the highest populations across the servers though.

Hav'nt played in a while, have ya ?.
They buffed the prowler and the TR MAX's. Now the prowler owns EVERYTHING, and i mean EVERYTHING!. The pounder is devistating, and one of those fcukers planted on a wall can suppress nmys from miles away. And the striker aint bad at all, its a right pain in the ass to MAXs.

Lasher is good indoors. It dont require any huge degree of accuracy, and you dont have to get up real close to use it.
JH is just a load bang at distance, but get it up close and its devistating.
MCG is a mix, it does require accuracy if at distance, and can be used at distance with a small degree of results. Up close it does require a small degree of accuracy, but tears u apart if you in front of that barrel.

As for populations. Wrong again. The populations vary from day to day, and time to time, and are about equal overall. The deciding factor is that TR and VS regullary hold more continants than NC since the last balancing patch.

[Gigabein]

I changed my thumper load-out to include some Jammer grenade ammo... disables implants and vehicle weapon systems, and destroys deployables. 1-2 such people in a squad of infantry seems like good planning.

But when JH's surge-monkey their way into your base what can TR/VS do? If NC infantry are supposed to rule at close quarters, then don't you think it would be fair/balanced to leave them at a disadvantage at medium+ range outdoors? Nerfing surge use with HA would force more tactical planning.

[shadowseed]

I changed my thumper load-out to include some Jammer grenade ammo... disables implants and vehicle weapon systems, and destroys deployables. 1-2 such people in a squad of infantry seems like good planning.

But when JH's surge-monkey their way into your base what can TR/VS do? If NC infantry are supposed to rule at close quarters, then don't you think it would be fair/balanced to leave them at a disadvantage at medium+ range outdoors? Nerfing surge use with HA would force more tactical planning.

At a pinch, the TR could plant a pounder at one end of the corridor, and turn anything that steps into the corridor into soup. The vs can just fill the corridor with lasher fire. Dont have to hit anything, cos the lash will fry severel players coming down the corridor.

OR!!!: U could us surge as well....

[Kikinchikin]

I can do the same thing with my MCG. What's fun is to surge down a zerged tower into the spawn room. and just run around aimlessly killing everyone in the spawns. Rambo style!

[Madcow]

Hav'nt played in a while, have ya ?.
They buffed the prowler and the TR MAX's. Now the prowler owns EVERYTHING, and i mean EVERYTHING!. The pounder is devistating, and one of those fcukers planted on a wall can suppress nmys from miles away. And the striker aint bad at all, its a right pain in the ass to MAXs.

Not since last night, no. The Prowler doesn't own everything, it's a fairly balanced tank but by no means the undisputed champion of tanks.

Everything you just said about the Pounder you actually meant the Burster. The Pounder didn't get any sort of a range buff, it got a damage nerf and a HUGE reload nerf. Have you not noticed that you don't see that many any more? Never mind, you obviously haven't noticed as you thought the Burster was the Pounder.

The Striker is crap. As an NC/VS MAX I barely pay attention to the missile lock-on warnings. The Striker used to be too powerful against MAXs, but they went too far the other way.

Lasher is good indoors. It dont require any huge degree of accuracy, and you dont have to get up real close to use it.
JH is just a load bang at distance, but get it up close and its devistating.
MCG is a mix, it does require accuracy if at distance, and can be used at distance with a small degree of results. Up close it does require a small degree of accuracy, but tears u apart if you in front of that barrel.

Neither the Lasher nor the MCG is a bad weapon, I've never disagreed. Acting like the JH isn't a larger advantage seems purposefully ignorant, but that's just my opinion.

As for populations. Wrong again. The populations vary from day to day, and time to time, and are about equal overall. The deciding factor is that TR and VS regullary hold more continants than NC since the last balancing patch.

NC has the most people playing. Fact. Of course populations vary at any given time, that doesn't change what the overall populations are. The 'deciding factor' is irrelevant because it's subjective. In the last month I have not logged on and seen NC as the needed empire on any of the servers, but that's subjective as well.

[Queensidecastle]

I am just going to chime in here with this:
TR do not have the worst equipment. I see tons of MCG users. MCG/Surge rocks just as much as JH/Surge
While the Agile/Surge/MCG can be quite effective, it is not even in the same ballpark as the Jack/Surge

Last night I was playing my Vanu guy and we had a single tower in all of Serhaus. Sometimes it is fun to see just how long you can hold a tower under overwhelming odds (that and instant action ALWAYS drops you where your empire has the least ammount of force) :D Anyways, I guess we got the attention of one of thouse outfits that seems to have a lot of cheaters/exploiters. I had outfit names turned off but they were coordinated and I noticed that they all had the same playing style.

Here is the exact thing that the lamer/eploiters try to do. Agile/Surge/Jack, run up you and try to jump over your head. That exact move over and over and over. Its the signature of a lamer and actually not hard to counter if you know its coming. The problem here is that I believe this maneuver specifically causes a warp and these jackasses knew it. We had agiles surging through the tower as fast as vehicles and people able to dissapear. The whole thing really pissed me off because they didnt have the balls to try to play fairly and they still got owned because we held the tower for almost 3 hours.

Here is another extremely annoying tactic that I have seen people do that think they are leet. Agile/Surge/Jack/Mossy - eject over tower. It seemed that the ones doing this last night were using the speed hacks. Somehow there is some speedhacks out there and some serious ways to exploit lag to warp around because I have never seen it as bad as it was last night. Agile/Jack/Surge is going to get nerfed and when it does I am going to laugh my ass off because those peeps are just going to start getting owned.

[Jagd]

Ejecting onto the top of a tower quadruples your chances of successfully hacking it, if not more. That is a damn fine tactic, and there is nothing cheap or exploit-like about it, so don't be lumping it in with speedhacking. Thanks.

[Vis Armata]

Galaxy drops on towers work good too, and you get to bring friends.

HA as a cert - for all empires - is far overused in my opinion. Planetside, I thought, is a slower tactical game than twitch games like Quake III or something similar. I always thought that HA would be something carried by only a few in squad as a supporting weapon, not the staple. I know some people like the playstyle that the agile + surge + HA offers, but widespread use is bad for PS as a whole.

I think that the implant pass will help alleviate some of this. A light-armored grunt should be slowed considerably by a heavy weapon. I am also hopeful that the devs will make changes to Rexo to make it the premier armor of the grunt. Better absorption, perhaps? A lower cert for rexo isn't the solution.

This is just my opinion, however.

[Queensidecastle]

Let me be more clear then:

Agile/Surge/Jack/Eject over a tower is a decent tactic in its own right but in a well defended tower, its just usless. Only a Gal drop takes a well defended tower. The difference I am talking about is on 3 or 4 occasions, I see the mossy on radar fly at full speed over the tower and that means only 1 thing (these people think they are clever but they so arent) I am in a MAX suit so I head upstairs to commence in some hacker bashing well we had a tower full of MAXs and troopers on all levels and this dude speedhacks past me. I get enough shots in to at least have almost killed him (I was a Quasar). No biggie, hes just going to run right into several MAXs/HAs. Well, I head on down to the CC expecting to see his death in the chatbox but I never do. Somehow he travels down 5 levels of tower with troops on every floor after I had landed enough shots to blow up a vehicle (not to mention when you take damage you lose stamina), totally escaping. Thats not skill, its just pure cheating. Later on this guy comes back and I catch him turning invisible hiding behind a stair collum. WTF? He didnt run past me and there was so much death and destruction at the bottom he would have been TKd by all the vanguards shooting in the doorway even if he made it past 2 levels of troopers.

This was a tactic I witnessed by different people all executed the same way last night.

[TeraHertz]

Now, Im not going to name names, but I saw 2-3 people from a squad go un-invisible just over a week ago. I assumed there was an explanation, like an ams above and i just couldn't see the cloak field. I ahven't mentioned it to anyone before becasue I thought they'd just say I was imagining things, lying, or drunk. They were NC, in a spawn room, and wearing agile/standard armour.

This is how it went.
I run into an enemy spawn room. A guy appears in front of me, surging, and jh's me before I even get a shot off with my stolen JH. I wonder if I'm getting tired and considering logging off.
I respawn, run back to the base, and proceed to the spawn rooms to destory them. I use the other door this time and creep slowly in. Inside the spawn room there is a guy in standard, just standing there, and then out of nowhere, a guy in agile armour appears in the middle of the room, right next to the standard. There is a kind of dull green tint, then he's just there. He pulls a weapon and runs off out the other door. Another appears the same way. This one notices me, and opens fire with med-machine gun. I kill him. The standard armour guy appears to come back from being afk at that moment, I kill him before he gets a chance to draw a weapon. I spent about 5 mins trying to duplicate the effect. I wondered if there was an ams, but couldn't see a cloaking field. Eventualy I gave up.

[infinite loop]

NC has the most people playing. Fact. Of course populations vary at any given time, that doesn't change what the overall populations are. The 'deciding factor' is irrelevant because it's subjective. In the last month I have not logged on and seen NC as the needed empire on any of the servers, but that's subjective as well.

Little known bug: empire need logo is old data. The devs have even admitted it before. Check it out sometime, log in, do a /who teams, and it doesn't always match. Sometimes the disparity is rather large. So don't use the empire need logo as a basis for anything.

Also, the NC are not the most populous empire, it is in fact, quite balanced. According to Thott's:

http://www.thottbot.com/planetside/2003-12-07/1/

Empire This view Total Percentage
TR 8958 8958 100.0% (0.0)
NC 8579 8579 100.0% (0.0)
VS 9147 9147 100.0% (0.0)


Yes, I know, it's only outfitted players. But logically I think you would see any population variance in these numbers too. I think as people settle on chars to use after the merger, that populations are balancing out nicely.

[Mudflap]

Check out the populations on Markov and Werner alone. Total population doesn't tell the whole tale.

Besides that, I don't want them to nerf the JH. The JH is a good weapon, and is comparable to the other HA weapons, but with surge, every HA weapon becomes insanely powerful, but the JH more so than any other. This is my problem with it. It is virtually, in secondary fire mode, a one hit kill, which is not something I really want to see in this game. Even snipers can't one hit kill.

[Vick]

Stop fuciking whining, everyone nows surge JH is lame, so is lasher and MCG.

Everyone needs to just admit that all HA needs nerfing, cause it is all lame.

[Alarinn]

If something should be nerfed it is the MCG, I hate that frigging gun, I don't even have a chance at shooting back. The weapons that are good in PS are the ones with high firerate, they're a lot easier to hit with, its really hard to aim in a game where there is always some computer and connection lag.

[TeraHertz]

If something should be nerfed it is the MCG, I hate that frigging gun, I don't even have a chance at shooting back. The weapons that are good in PS are the ones with high firerate, they're a lot easier to hit with, its really hard to aim in a game where there is always some computer and connection lag.


Clearly NC.

[Strak]

Hit them with a jammer. Slow them down to crawl.

HEY LOOK THAT GUYS IS SURGIN'! Get the jammer! Press 1. stow old gun, pull jammer....BLAM BLAM BLAM get tri-barrelled.

Oops guess I didn't recognize the fact he was a SURGE/AGILE/JH as fast as he could recognize I wasn't NC and I needed to die.

I will agree that hitting them with a Jammer is a good thing. But you would ave to do it before they closed into range. Even if you did hit them right before, nothing would stop them from finishing the job.

[Kikinchikin]

Last thing they need to do is nerf Heavy Assault. Ever wonder why it is 4 certs? It's because it is the dominate gun in close range combat. To be honest, if they ever nerfed my MCG I would probably ditch grunting all together, considering i am not too good with the cycler or ne other MA weapon, and thumper/rocklet cause too much grief to use habitually.

Poor thing, it's been kicked so much that I can hardly tell it once was a horse.

[Arthell]

OR!!!: U could us surge as well....

Yeah.

Its not like Jackhammers are close-combat weapons, or anything.

:lol:

[Lithpope]

All they really neeed to do is nix the secondary fire on the JH and things are just fine IMO.

[shadowseed]

God, some of you are such a bunch of wingers. "oh, my empires weapons are rubish compared to everyone elses.." "boo hoo, my empire's population is really low compared to everyone elses.." . "nerf the JH, i get killed with it!" "The prowler still is not powerful enough, it should have 3 cannons, not one!" "My MCG is useless, the bullets should have lock on!"

If you cant surge/MCG kill people then eaither your a REALLY crap shot, or your just lame. I tried it last night with my TR character and it rocked. I stormed around a crowded base wiping out NC after NC after NC, i eventually ran out of fecking ammo for got sake!.
I dont have a VS char, so did not try out Lasher/surge, although i imaging running into a spawn unloading and running away would cause real strife!.

As for the airdrop on a tower, theres nothing cheating about that. I use the infi/surge/mosc tactic loads of times with huge succsess. If some nmy comes up stairs thinking "he hehe, he must be dumn, thinking i did not see that mosc on radar, im sooo gonna kill him at the CC", i just surge down to the basement, hack a terminal, MAX up kill him or the tubes.

Oh, and as a foot not, last night on Werner, it was NC that were the only "needing more players" on the front screen.

Ive said it before and ill say it again. Every empire has its + and its -. Anyone that goes on a crusade, whining about there -'s and everyone elses +'s is just lame.

[sutserikeru]

even if the JH sucked, the NC have the numbers to kick anyones ass. but, the JH doesnt suck, thus all the n00bs are jumping on the Vanguard/JH bandwangon

[I Hate Pants]

OR!!!: U could us surge as well....

OH YES! LETS ALL JUST SURGE! That way PS can be more like Quake. Lets all just jump around at point blank range at each other firing our HA weapons.

F U NC! Thanks for ruining the gameplay. If everyone starts surging then this game isn't worth playing anymore.

[shadowseed]

OH YES! LETS ALL JUST SURGE! That way PS can be more like Quake. Lets all just jump around at point blank range at each other firing our HA weapons.

F U NC! Thanks for ruining the gameplay. If everyone starts surging then this game isn't worth playing anymore.

Wow, you really got issues!. My point is, that if some guy is surging towards you, you can alway use surge to retreat/avoid him while shooting back.
Stop being such a baby, just cos ive got NC on this forum dont mean anything, ive got a TR char as well!!!. And for the record, i only have HA for my TR character, NOT for my NC.

I use MAX's a lot, does that mean i hould complain about TR's using Strikers and Surge against me ????... no, its a good tactic.

[Mudflap]

I love how defensive people get about this subject. I have no problem with the JH personally. I don't want any gun nerfed. I want to see surge totally suck for people with HA weapons though.

I had never really surged with HA, so I decided to try it out. It's easy. BTW, sorry to anyone I lamed last night. If you were killed by a surging HA pansy named Rashad, my most sincere condolences.

Surge is supposed to be worth less and less as your armor increases. This was done so that heavy troops couldn't zoom in and around people like an inf could. Now, people are getting around this by using light armor with heavy weapons. This is a problem. The JH is just the best weapon for this tactic, but the MCG and Lasher with Surge combo is equally lame.

I just want to see either surge be nerfed for people carrying heavy weapons, or disabled for people carrying heavy weapons.

[I Hate Pants]

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character.jsp?charId=368173&worldId=21

I see no TR character? Only this guy

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character_index.jsp

Now that you have lied. I see you have no room argueing your point here anymore.

[Madcow]

Wow, you really got issues!. My point is, that if some guy is surging towards you, you can alway use surge to retreat/avoid him while shooting back.

Surging running backwards with a Cycler or MCG is even more suicidal than standing your ground and trying to land enough shots before the JH is on top of you, you should try it sometime. All you're doing is forcing your COF to bloom while you're running backwards at half the speed of the guy closing on you.

[BadAsh]

Wow, you really got issues!. My point is, that if some guy is surging towards you, you can alway use surge to retreat/avoid him while shooting back.

I use MAX's a lot, does that mean i hould complain about TR's using Strikers and Surge against me ????... no, its a good tactic.

Actually, surge only works when you move forward. If you have surge turned on and strafe to either side or backpeddle your speed reduced to normal. Sooo... the JH will just be in your face at lighthing speed. Your only option is to fight or run and have him shoot you in the back with no hope of returning fire.

I think anyone who does not realize which HA is the most effective/powerful is either not experienced or is intentionally deceptive to make a point. Like the guys who enjoyed all the easy killing with the original Flail public release. Why ruin a good advantage by agreeing and helping to expose your overpowered asset? -Just my opinion, because to me the JH has sooo many advantages especially when paired with surge. I'ts obvious.

Finally, if you use MAXs then you should fear a Deci + surge or a Deci + cover far more than you fear a Striker. Not, that I'm complaining. I love my striker. I like the lock on ability to chase off aircraft and annoy MAXs. But, honestly, when I get a kill with the striker I feel lucky. Typically, when defending a base, I go to the base walls with 2 strikers equiped in my Rexo allowing me to carry 45 rockets. After firing ALL 45 shots I have 1 or 2 kills. The damage is low enough that most opponenets have the time to leave unless they are wounded by something else. Now, 2 or 3 guys with strikers hitting the same target... there is ownage.

[Queensidecastle]

I think anyone who does not realize which HA is the most effective/powerful is either not experienced or is intentionally deceptive to make a point
I agree, I find that extremely annoying. Agile/Surge/Lasher and Agile/Surge/MCG just isnt the same level of problem. None would be a problem if they would just tweak surge where if your Agile or Standard trying to Surge with HA, your stamina drains out in like 5 seconds

[Gigabein]

None would be a problem if they would just tweak surge where if your Agile or Standard trying to Surge with HA, your stamina drains out in like 5 seconds

Or make weapon/tool size have varying impacts on surge speed. Smaller weapon/tool = bigger benefit from Surge. Benefit could go something like this:

None/Knife > Standard Assault/Hand Grenade/REK/BANK/Med Applicator/Command Uplink Device > MA/Ace/Nano Dispenser > Sniper = SA > AV > HA

The Decimator would be an exception... same surge benefit as AV. Hopefully there's some infiltrators, engineers, and medics that would appreciate this, too

Edit: Conversely you can look at this as penalties to the existing Surge system. Whipping out HA in Standard/Agile would put you around the same speed or slower as the current REXO. HA in REXO would come close to negating surge, making it pointless to run with your weapon out.

[Queensidecastle]

I would agree except I think there needs to be a compelling reason to wear reinforced if you want to be effective with HA. An idea that DOES NOT INCLUDE A POORLY THOUGHTOUT AND HEAVY HANDED approach like the idea of a Rexo prereq for HA

[Madcow]

I would agree except I think there needs to be a compelling reason to wear reinforced if you want to be effective with HA. An idea that DOES NOT INCLUDE A POORLY THOUGHTOUT AND HEAVY HANDED approach like the idea of a Rexo prereq for HA

I have no problem at all with them creating an HA slot on the reinforced only. I think they should need to drop HA to 3 cert points because of it, but make it so that reinforced is the only armor that you can wear and still wield HA. Of course, they should also buff the reinforced by another 50 armor points but that's a story for another day.

[Zatrais]

There is no honor in surging in agile/standard whit a HA. Its a cheap ass tactic that cannot be defended against simply because you're not where your opponent sees you, surger monkeys warp all over the place, thats the real problem.

Surging whit HA is PS on easy mode.

[SpunkyKuma]

My friend plays PS on my PC, she plays VS and TR but when she loots a JH she gets a good string of kills before she dies. Just yesterday in a tower fight against NC she nailed 4 NCs within 10 seconds, two of them from triple-shot and I bet the NCs were not happy to get a taste of their own medicine. Those 4 NCs were alive for a good while too, and she doesn't use surge. :)

Know the strength and weakness of weapons, too many NCs rely on the JH even outdoors, and rely too heavily on surge as well.

[Queensidecastle]

Well, its kinda all moot anyways because it will be nerfed in some way. Its best that these lamers do it now and get it out of thier system cause thier daily kill counts are going to drop like a rock

[RagingSpeedhorn]

Intellegent posts, which seem to point to the fact that

a) JH is fine
b) Surge is fine
c) Agile is fine

But put them together then it's overbalanced. A few obviouse 'l33t' NC guys who think that it's OK to own an enemy by closing so fast and killing so hard that there is no change to defend. I think the word 'whine' and 'deal with it' made a 'l33t' appearance. Admit it, Noob Surgile Jackhammer wh0res that you used a combo to gain an unfair adavantage.

I for one will laugh my arse off when the non-players who 'pwn' because they can't play properly are nerfed.

[Veteran]

a) Jackhammer has a triple-fire mode that encroaches on TR's "empire flavor" of high ROF, not fine. Of course I think "empire flavor" is kinda dumb; every army strives for superiority, and not by adopting some childish idea like "shoot more bullets faster!\1".

b) Surge has been agreed to be broken by some of the finest minds in the game, due mainly to the nature of Client-Side Hit-Detection and the role of vehicles (1:40 Surge in Standard is enough to get from one base to the next, even ones that are somewhat distant from each other, making vehicles virtually superfluous).

c) Agile is most definitely fine, although perhaps it should only allow you to equip "short" rifles (Thumper, MA weapons, Radiator).

As for the "overbalanced" part, of course you are correct. I think the devs have it well in hand though. I've noticed those guys manage to steer the game even through rough seas, and I've been having fun with it consistently for months.

Off topic, the free client for XP users is making it waay easier to get my friends into the game.

[Katanaboy]

a) Jackhammer has a triple-fire mode that encroaches on TR's "empire flavor" of high ROF, not fine. Of course I think "empire flavor" is kinda dumb; every army strives for superiority, and not by adopting some childish idea like "shoot more bullets faster!\1".
This one gets me too. In an ideally balanced situation you'd have units that are light, fast, and weak, and units that are slow, heavy, and powerful. However, surge/agile/HA allows a unit to be light, fast, and powerful, which in itself is overpowering.

Also factored in to the equation is RoF vs. Strength, with TR being high RoF/low strength and NC being the opposite. However, the NC get the ability to have high RoF/high strength with the triple shot, which is a bit unfair. The equivalent would be the chaingun having some alt mode that fired out of all three of its barrels at the same time while maintaining its RoF, or the lasher having one that shot instant hit projectiles while maintaining the lash.
c) Agile is most definitely fine, although perhaps it should only allow you to equip "short" rifles (Thumper, MA weapons, Radiator).
I think this is a great idea, it goes with the "light, fast, and weak" theory. Let only reinforced carry HA (to people who complain, rexo isn't THAT much slower than agile) or other "long" rifles.

[MuNsTeR]

:stoppost:

[shadowseed]

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character.jsp?charId=368173&worldId=21

I see no TR character? Only this guy

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character_index.jsp

Now that you have lied. I see you have no room argueing your point here anymore.

A) My TR char is not on wearner, and
B) Hes not called shadowseed...

God your lame...

[Ait'al]

how about this! When your weapons holstered it takes less stamina and you can run like you can now. but with it out it changes teh center of gravity the implant is accustumed to and takes more drain. But per weapons slot size. IE piston less stamina than rifle sized! then it has even more drawbacks and you wont have to worry about miss hitting the surge button after you tyr to put yor gun away and get kiled cause you hit it too soon or something. 8)