Surge and Weapons

[Hamma]

So its been a few weeks since they implemented some fix's for surge. IMO it hasnt done a ton to fix the problem. So I figured I would fire up a poll - should surge be disabled while a weapon is drawn?

I vote yes, I'm tired of getting surged by jackhammers, shotguns, etc etc. It takes the fun out of the game because 90% of the time they warp up to you and you are dead. Lets put everyone back on an even playing field. Because when you surge and use your weapon it's pretty much luck.

[Searo]

First!1!1!!!!!111111one!!

I completely agree, I mean, I can barely hit people that aren't using surge, let alone people that warp even faster than normal.

[Spee]

n3r t3h surg3.


Seriously. I managed to take down a rexo and two agiles yesterday with m sweeper(I was in agile), and all 3 of them had HA. I wouldnt not have been able to do it, without surge.


Rexo in middle, his two agile buddies flanking him. I come down the stairs, see them spamming, dodge behind a max, turn on surge, and suicide jump at the rexo, while firing sweeper shots. A few pellets land while Im in the air, the other two hit when I land. After I kill him, I surge out the door to the right hall (This is in the base with paralell-running hallways that go off the stairway), and double back and enter the left hall. One of his Agile buddies is there, just taking out his MCG. 3 sweeper shots = dead agile. Surge through the stairway into the right hall, see the doors open, find the guy who was looking for me, MCG drawn, and kill him with 3 sweeper shots.


That should not happen.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Agree, nerf the surge. Honestly though, I wouldn't mind seeing it completely removed from the game altogether (along with the HART).

[xmodum]

i havnt been killed by a surgeing NC with his jackhammer, only because im mostley on NC, but still i see to many NC with agile on with a jackhammer. Yesterday i went to sanctuary, looked around at all my allies , to my suprise all of them had on agile with a jackhammer , dont no if they had surge , but most likely they did , iv never done this because i never cheat , onless its on like an xbox games that just gives u the cheats :P~ :sniper:

[GreyFlcn]

Yes, with one exception.

Rifle-Slot weapon only

Pistols and Knives should not be affected.

[MuNsTeR]

if they ever do ill be :mad:
ps: i dont use JH

[martyr]

i like greyflcn's take. leave the option for pistol and knife but disable the bigger ones

[Warborn]

Yes, with one exception.

Rifle-Slot weapon only

Pistols and Knives should not be affected.

Yeah, wouldn't be bad. Surge is sort of necessary when attacking with a knife, and I'm sure Infiltrators would be very annoyed if they couldn't circle-strafe at Warp 10 when attacking anymore.

[Queensidecastle]

Poll is too simplistic. Removing Surge while weapons are drawn isnt a fix. Its a draconian method of solving a greater issue and would be a knee jerk reaction to the problem. While I do agree there needs to be a fix for the Agile/HA/Surge combo, this most certainlty isnt it

[TeraHertz]

Yes, do it.
People don't warp me anymore which is great. I've been dropping NC left right and center since that patch went out. I think what should happen is all unit's foot speed should be VERY slightly increased, but surge nerfed the way stated.

Though, once it's nerfed, wtf am i going to do against mozzies and stuff.

[Zatrais]

Nerf surge to the stoneage and back for all i care, just get rid of the surgermonkys. It gets tiering and boring to beeing dead before you can shoot back.

[Hamma]

Poll is too simplistic. Removing Surge while weapons are drawn isnt a fix. Its a draconian method of solving a greater issue and would be a knee jerk reaction to the problem. While I do agree there needs to be a fix for the Agile/HA/Surge combo, this most certainlty isnt it
Provide us witha better solution then. They tried to solve it by reducing the warp created when people use it. That hasnt really fixed the problem, something more needs to be done. And IMO this is probably the best solution.

[Rbstr]

i would't not like that as any wepon, perhaps only heavy wepons and the sweeper. That would be fine by me, and balancing too. Try using a Guass against anything without surge at med-close range and your toast (unless they have a pistol or pulsar)

[BadAsh]

Agree, nerf the surge. Honestly though, I wouldn't mind seeing it completely removed from the game altogether (along with the HART).

I kind of like that idea but... what about the situation when you see an enemy run past your position... you move to follow from behind but now have no way to close the gap assuming similar armor is worn. So you just follow forever? Or leave catching up to the enemy to Infiltrators? That would be rather lame IMHO. Surge is needed as a "sprinting" option.

[dscytherulez]

I don't agree with this. If surge was nerfed like that i would drop it. Surge is also good for closing gaps with your weapon. If you can't have your weapon out, do you think your opponent will wait for you to get close enough and then get it out before firing? They should just fix the warping, seeing as how that seems to be the problem with most people. I myself never had any problems like warping though, and i play all 3 empires so im not NC biased.

[Queensidecastle]

Provide us witha better solution then.
I have done so over and over again as well as others posting excellent ideas of thier own.

My idea basically revolves around a quick draining of Stamina if a Standard or Agile wants to Surge with HA. Tweaked in whatever fashion necessary that would allow for Rexo/HA/Surge to be superior than the others.

[BDMJ]

The warping problem hasn't been fixed. It is as bad as ever in areas with a fair amount of elevation change. They really need to work on their z-axis prediction methods. They need to work on z-axis code period, as there are several bugs related to it.

[Hamma]

I doubt they will ever fix it.

[WritheNC]

Keep surge the way it is imo. I don't have a problem with it any longer(and no, I do not have HA).

I try to go in bases with a sweeper + thumper(jammer) loadout a lot now.

[Queensidecastle]

I tried the whole jammer thing and it would be cool except it takes out everyone elses implants too and thats a real drag. So if you are in a tower and other people have the same idea, good luck getting to use Darklight. Meanwhile an Infil ninja hacks your tower :mad:

[Chaaos]

I tried the whole jammer thing and it would be cool except it takes out everyone elses implants too and thats a real drag. So if you are in a tower and other people have the same idea, good luck getting to use Darklight. Meanwhile an Infil ninja hacks your tower :mad:


I thought jammers didnt effect friendlies anymore. :confused:

[Veteran]

When I voted to nerf Surge, I thought for sure I'd be in the minority defending the completely rational suggestion to nerf/remove Surge, but instead I found that the majority of players have their heads on straight. Very cool.

As for the warping, it's worse than ever. People run up staircases and into the ceiling, and it's sometimes as long as three seconds before they reappear where they should be. I can't imagine why they would let Surge make the game look so amateurish. It's just one stupid implant. I'm seriously curious as to why it wasn't removed pending repair of more basic game issues. Is it because the number of speedhackers is epidemic, and Surge hides them from the public eye? I mean really... What gives?

[0000]

killing a surgeing guy isnt that hard. There is something caould o i dunno SKILL it kills surge people relly fast. Also get a better internet conection.

[0000]

Oh and one more thing you people that post on the planetside bords that say NERF NERF NERF. You people make me sick you get your n00b ass owned thean you come on the officla froums and whine.

sorry its been a relly long day and i need to flame some people.

[Spee]

Yes, flaming people who cant kill an enemy who they cant see, hear, or locate, because they are skilless. Congrats.


Warping is a problem that cant be answered by the skill argument. No amount of skill will allow you to land direct hits on something that doesnt exist to your computer. Only sheer luck.

[Unknown]

Oh and one more thing you people that post on the planetside bords that say NERF NERF NERF. You people make me sick you get your n00b ass owned thean you come on the officla froums and whine.

sorry its been a relly long day and i need to flame some people.
You do realize you just flamed half of the regulars, including the admin of this site...right? Oh, and these aren't the "officla froums", nor are they the "Official Forums" assuming that's what you were trying to say. They are, instead, a fan-site's forums. A rather large fan-site, granted, but a fan-site none-the-less.

As for my opinion, yeah, disable rifle sized weapons when surging. They also seriously need to do something about the rabbits. 10 stamina per jump, but no time limit between jumps hasn't helped much. Perhaps no jumping with a rifle out either? Just a thought...

[dscytherulez]

no jumping with a rifle out either

Why is jumping with a gun a prob? Your accuracy goes to shit anyway, how is that hurting anyone? Not to mention that you couldnt have your gun out and jump to dodge shots, even if you werent firing.

[sutserikeru]

I think they should allow ppl to holster a weapon with surge, but not fire. Only after they turn on surge. Also, if SOE rejects that idea, i think they should get rid of surge on the main servers until they come to a real fix for the warping problem

[BadAsh]

As for my opinion, yeah, disable rifle sized weapons when surging. They also seriously need to do something about the rabbits. 10 stamina per jump, but no time limit between jumps hasn't helped much. Perhaps no jumping with a rifle out either? Just a thought...

I dont see how disabling rifle sized weapons only will help... so what? Then only pistol shooters are allowed to warp around for cheap kills? :) If the problem is, as it seems to be, with most of you that the game code can't handle the speed increase with it's current player prediction... then just remove surge.

Just gimping rifles won't help... heck it's the inflitrators with surge who move the fastest anyway.... warp-o-rama there.

I say ditch surge and make all armors speed the same as agile. Rexo has the advantage then because you paid 3 cert points for extra inventory and a meager 50 more armor. The advantage inflitrators have is to be unseen and that's what you get for your 2 cert points. Players with various foot speeds is a problem in a FPS shooter... the faster win as surge proves.

[Gigabein]

My idea basically revolves around a quick draining of Stamina if a Standard or Agile wants to Surge with HA. Tweaked in whatever fashion necessary that would allow for Rexo/HA/Surge to be superior than the others.

Instead of stamina drain or disabling surge, you could throw on a speed penalty to Surge if the guy is using rifle weapons. Having a HA/AV/SA/Sniper/MA weapon anywhere on your character would bring surge down to about the speed of surge in REXO armor. Using surge in heavier armor plus rifles should give the player almost no speed benefit. This implant is meant to benefit the lightweight players whose defense is mobility rather than having a buttload of armor. Also, a speed penalty would hopefully put an end to players using surge for medium-long range transportation, thereby increasing the need for deliverers, sunderers, and galaxies.

[Biohazzard56]

Make it to where Reinforced Exo can only surge, or cant surge with HA weapon in hand. Vash got 144 kills in a row with Maelstrom+surge. Something needs to be done

[BadAsh]

This implant is meant to benefit the lightweight players whose defense is mobility rather than having a buttload of armor.

I don't think spending 3 cert points to go from 100 to 150 armor constitutes a "buttload" of armor...

[Cyanide]

I am definately in favor of disabling weapons while surging. NC with Jackhammers (or anybody with a heavy weapon) and surge are just too powerful. Today my squad was gaurding a tower and we had 4 maxes (1 AV 3 AI) gaurding the CC plus engineers to repair armor, and still we were taken out by what amounted to 4 reinforced suits with surge and desimators. They would surge around the corner, take a pot shot with the decimator, then surge back out of site. They were so fast we could not kill them before they got back around the corner. On top of that, I lost an AI max today because somebody was circle strafing me with surge and a jackhammer. An AI max with full health should not die to ANY single infantry soldier, under any circumstances (and no, i do not have horrible aim). Ever. It's an anti-infantry max, and if it can't dominate infantry then it has no worth what so ever.

I hate to scream nerf, but when EVERY SINGLE grunt is using surge and a shotgun, you know it's over powered.

[1024]

yes.

[Everay]

no! because it is simply a tactic some people use, and is effective with all HA weapons, ive seen MCG or lashers own people with JH and surge, all empires have that advantage

[RagingSpeedhorn]

I think most people are in agreement that surgile should be nerfed. Those you say we are whining are those that use it, I suspect. It's been said before, but it's an unfair advantage when you cannot defend yourself against an attacker because they move too quick and are too powerful.

It's just a matter of time before something is done about it.

[Queensidecastle]

Surging was never a problem when people were wearing Rexo. It all started when the whole Agile/Surge/HA/Run_ and_try_to_jump_over_your_head combo became the signature move of all lamers. Draining out Stamina for Agile/Standard is all you need to do

[SandTrout]

I dont see how disabling rifle sized weapons only will help... so what? Then only pistol shooters are allowed to warp around for cheap kills? :) If the problem is, as it seems to be, with most of you that the game code can't handle the speed increase with it's current player prediction... then just remove surge.

Just gimping rifles won't help... heck it's the inflitrators with surge who move the fastest anyway.... warp-o-rama there. Um, Inifltrators have 0 armor, and no ability to use even a suppressor. The pistols realy do crap damage except for the AMP, which is not useable while surgeing because it has absolutely terrble recoil, especialy while moveing. Besides, do you realy think infils need ANOTHER nerf? I'd say about 7 times out of 10, if you try to kill an agile that has any rifle weapon and no surge with an infiltrator with surge, the agile will win.

Edit: the above was refering to when they agile knows that the infil is there.

[Firefly]

Surge and a rifle is bullshit. I draw a rifle when I run, and I slow down. I turn on surge and I'm hauling ass.

I feel that surge has uses, like when I'm sneaking and peeking in my infil suit and need to exfil rapidly. I don't feel it should be usable when you're equipped with a rifle, and quite possibly even pistols or knives.

[Vis Armata]

A solution might be to encourage the use of reinforced armor while making agile less desireable. Pilot armor should not be able to carry heavy loads, or at least be able to carry a gun without some penalty. If Reinforced looks better, it will get used. Surge is only a problem when paired with Agile armor, it seems. You can't surge long with Rexo at all.

A design change that slows the game down from Quake III to the tactical shooter we're expecting is definitely needed.

[BadAsh]

Um, Inifltrators have 0 armor, and no ability to use even a suppressor. The pistols realy do crap damage except for the AMP, which is not useable while surgeing because it has absolutely terrble recoil, especialy while moveing. Besides, do you realy think infils need ANOTHER nerf? I'd say about 7 times out of 10, if you try to kill an agile that has any rifle weapon and no surge with an infiltrator with surge, the agile will win.

Edit: the above was refering to when they agile knows that the infil is there.

Try playing a "combat" infiltrator and you will see what I mean. I use the NC scatter pistol and I can surge circles around Rexos and even Agiles. Remember the NC scatter pistol is a 3 shot kill at point blank range and if you come undetected from behind you will get at least 2 solid hits before your prey can react...

I can't tell you how many times I surge someone while cloaked and manage to stay behind them for the whole brief encounter while they fire in the complete opposite direction... am I warping to them? are they just spazing out?

One thing that keeps getting overlooked with inflitration... people keep pointing out how it has 0 armor... but overlook the heavy benefits being cloaked gives you... If they have DL just surge away... if they don't... good luck hitting the blur... In Agile and a Rexo, sure you have some armor but everyone and their cousin is shooting at you... in certain circumstances invisibility is far more powerful than a few points of armor... your job as an infiltrator is to ensure they circumstances are to your favor...

[Nimbus]

The warping is really the only problem. I expect to get flanked when I'm in my MAX. Thats a given. However there have been pleanty of times where I'll see some guy head up/down the stairs coming at me and then suddenly, I cant see them anymore but I've just had 3 shots fired into my back. Thats cheap and wrong.
And I seriously doubt it's a connection issue. I don't think you should need a T1 line to fix warping.

[scanda]

I vote YES to the original question.

[Spee]

Today, I had a taste of my own medicine. I saw a guy rubber-banding out in the field, so i figure its an easy kill. I go after him with my n00bhammer, and, he falls through the earth. Nex thing I know, Im getting lasher shells in the back. Flick on surge, run around, see him runing in place waist-deep in the earth, fire a few shots at him. The waist-deep avatar freezes, and about 10 meters away, the guy dies.


WTF?

[Madcow]

Try playing a "combat" infiltrator and you will see what I mean. I use the NC scatter pistol and I can surge circles around Rexos and even Agiles. Remember the NC scatter pistol is a 3 shot kill at point blank range and if you come undetected from behind you will get at least 2 solid hits before your prey can react...

MagScatter is the only pistol this truly works for, it's COF barely expands while moving. AMP is a bad idea (and so few people are able to spin out of the way of it once the shots begin it's pretty irrelevant), Repeater would take far too many shots (and blooms a good amount) and let's not get into the Beamer.

Of course, this also depends on the victim having a connection equal to yours. I've had a bunch of times that I've been circling behind people firing only to watch them pull the trigger shooting in the wrong direction and killing me. Client side can cause havok with circle strafing, although I also don't normally use surge and the 'warping' may have been enough to keep me alive on their screen.

[Madcow]

The warping is really the only problem. I expect to get flanked when I'm in my MAX. Thats a given. However there have been pleanty of times where I'll see some guy head up/down the stairs coming at me and then suddenly, I cant see them anymore but I've just had 3 shots fired into my back. Thats cheap and wrong.
And I seriously doubt it's a connection issue. I don't think you should need a T1 line to fix warping.

That's the talentless clowns jumping, which the patch way back when was supposed to fix and did nothing for. I just figure if you need that you're a hack who needs the stats anyhow, thanks for playing and I'll just respawn.

[Doppler]

I dont have much issue with people warping around on me, I dont know what it is that sso special about me, because to be honest I'm never going to see a ping below 150 and my computer stats are excellent but not supercomputer claass. Personally Ill admmit I surge/sweeper a lot, so I'll concede that that could have somethign to do with it, but then again I'm rexo, how the hell else am I gonna close with people.

To those that underestimate the powers of surging cloakers I say pick up a cloak cert, surge and CE, saw a infiltrator get 7+ kills with one boomer just surging through a crowded spawn room, we all saw him go through, but there was no way we could catch him, yea eventualy he ran into someone standing in the door way and promptly ate a lot of shotty ammo but his KtD ratio was sick.

Those that claim agiles need surge, frag you, maybe when they either give rexos more armor, more armor deflection, or drop its cost from the rediculous 3 points will I consider your argument. I mean lets think about this, I can get a powered suit of armor, with 500 and change more armor, for 1 point less as a set of unpowered armor whos main drawing power is a second rifle slot, whos armor deflection generaly isnt sufficent to protect us in a Medium assault versus guy in agile fight, get bent.

[infinite loop]

No. JH is worthless w/o surge, whether it's rexo or agile. The strength of the JH is at close range, and w/o the ability to quickly close range on an enemy, us JH users will be nerfed badly. I agree that the warping must be fixed, so let's see if they can accomplish that before we seriously consider nerfing surge. If they can't fix the warping, then I may have to reluctantly agree to it. I want to point out I see as many surging MCG and Lasher users as I do JH users. Bring on the flames.

[Hamma]

I figured someone would try to make that argument, its purely false. You will have to adapt and learn how to fight without surge. I assure you its possible, take off surge sometime and try it. And yes, all empires surge and use HA that is not the point here. This poll isnt titled "nerf surge for JH users"

[Gigabein]

If HA = close range... and INDOOR FIGHTING = close range, theeennnnn.... 1 + 1 = 2 :doh:

[infinite loop]

I figured someone would try to make that argument, its purely false. You will have to adapt and learn how to fight without surge. I assure you its possible, take off surge sometime and try it. And yes, all empires surge and use HA that is not the point here. This poll isnt titled "nerf surge for JH users"

It's not totally false. It is the only method a JH has to make up for it's weakness at range. For people w/o the ability to carry a gauss and JH (rexo), surge is their only alternative. Personally, I don't surgile much, only when I tower drop. I'm a hardcore rexo grunt, but I still use surge in rexo. The gauss is uselss indoors, and the JH sucks down hallways. Without surge the NC would have no hope at that medium indoors range. I realize it's not a nerf surging n00bhammers thread, I apologize, just get tired of those threads, and am a bit defensive sometimes. The only way I agree to it is if they increase the effective range of the JH to match the MCG and Lasher.

[Gigabein]

so you can 1-shot kill people with alt-fire at midrange?

[BlackHawk]

How about they just drop the three barrel alt-fire altogether and make the JH similar to the ScatMax weapon? Three modes: one for close, medium and long range each.

[Neon Apocalypse]

Hell no! Surge should be kept as it is, what do think they put it there for. I think surge makes the game alot more fun, and if you cant take out guys using surge learn to aim, because i can take them out. Seriously guys, its like you're all saying, "i admit im a n00b." , because n00bs complain about getting owned. If you keep getting owned by surge y not use it. you have the same advantage as the other person, it all depends on whether u want to use it.

[Madcow]

Hell no! Surge should be kept as it is, what do think they put it there for. I think surge makes the game alot more fun, and if you cant take out guys using surge learn to aim, because i can take them out. Seriously guys, its like you're all saying, "i admit im a n00b." , because n00bs complain about getting owned. If you keep getting owned by surge y not use it. you have the same advantage as the other person, it all depends on whether u want to use it.

I think the noob would be the person who doesn't realize that with client side hit detection you can literally make yourself disappear (which is what tons of people are doing). Taking advantage of a software limitation isn't exactly something that I plan on doing, I'd rather get kills legitimately and spawn a few more times to guys who aren't good enough to actually play the game. They've already tried (and failed) to fix the hit detection on surge users, enough is enough. At least take it out until they can figure out what to do with it, leaving things hanging is just poor judgement.

[Gigabein]

Hell no! Surge should be kept as it is, what do think they put it there for. I think surge makes the game alot more fun, and if you cant take out guys using surge learn to aim, because i can take them out. Seriously guys, its like you're all saying, "i admit im a n00b." , because n00bs complain about getting owned. If you keep getting owned by surge y not use it. you have the same advantage as the other person, it all depends on whether u want to use it.

You obviously missed everything that was ever mentioned about character warping, and the FACT that there is a balance problem.

[Veteran]

Perfectly stated, Madcow.

[Queensidecastle]

However there ALREADY is a meathod in the game to control Surge. It's called the Stamina bar. There isnt any reason whatsoever to add an additional layer to control the surge implant. It would be a hack to the game code when all that is needed is to tweak the system for controlling Surge that is already in place. In other words, its mostly a balance pass on a tweak to stamina as related to the surge implant. Far less of a negative impact to the gamers that just turning off an implant.

[Katanaboy]

Even if they couldn't surge as long, they'd still be surging, and warping all around your screen as you tried to fight them. Also, there isn't that much of a chance of them running out, since a surging HA can take you out in 4-5 seconds if he can aim straight.

Also, what's wrong with not being able to surge with a weapon out? Surge to close in the distance, then turn it off, whip out your weapon, and fire away.

And, to those who say JH is completely worthless at range, so are all the other empire's HA. Both the lasher and MCG have a CoF the size of Arkansas, when sitting still.

[SandTrout]

To those that underestimate the powers of surging cloakers I say pick up a cloak cert, surge and CE, saw a infiltrator get 7+ kills with one boomer just surging through a crowded spawn room, we all saw him go through, but there was no way we could catch him, yea eventualy he ran into someone standing in the door way and promptly ate a lot of shotty ammo but his KtD ratio was sick. I'm not doubting the power of the surgeing infil necisaraly, but I don't feal that it is overpowered. As for the guy who boomed your spawn room, props to him. It takes a good amount of skill and luck to not get cut down by the sray shots and get into a crouded spawn room.

Oh, and BTW, I'm sure there were plenty of failures before and after that boom that got lost in the killspam.

[Spee]

Being one who has been curious about the surge+JH issue, I certd myself for it.


However, due to my shitty machine, YOU war as much as -I- do when I surge around. Yes, I seem to fall through floors and such, But you can at least see motion. All I get is..


Frame 1: Sees guy. Holds LMB down.
Frame 2:Guy is strafing, attempts to follow him.
Frame 3: Guy is either dead, or I am dead.


However, I do love tower battles.

Turn corner, see enemy w/out weapon drawn, hit 'e', click. Dead Vanu/TR.

[beave]

No. JH is worthless w/o surge, whether it's rexo or agile. The strength of the JH is at close range, and w/o the ability to quickly close range on an enemy, us JH users will be nerfed badly. I agree that the warping must be fixed, so let's see if they can accomplish that before we seriously consider nerfing surge. If they can't fix the warping, then I may have to reluctantly agree to it. I want to point out I see as many surging MCG and Lasher users as I do JH users. Bring on the flames.

The NC have something called a Gause rifle. This weapon is good at medium to long range. Wear Rexo and use both. It's very simple.

Woof!

[Professor Frink]

Yes...
All empires have surge monkeys but JH users dont have to worry about bloom while surging & that is their advantage

[Doppler]

I whould point out that thanks to the lashing ability and the diameter of the shots lasher users dont have to work about COF bloom either.

[Gigabein]

1. A majority of the time, a HA user should lose to a MA user out in the open.
2. Conversely, a majority of the time a MA user should lose to a HA user indoors.
3. Surge is breaking that balance in favor of HA.

The NC have something called a Gause rifle. This weapon is good at medium to long range. Wear Rexo and use both. It's very simple.

Beave is right on. A cowboy player that doesn't look for rides and runs everywhere with only his trusty JH should have a crappy KTD ratio. A similarly equipped player that rides a sunderer up to the back door or gal drops onto the base walkways, and then beelines for the indoors should be rewarded with a copious kill count. Why? Because that's called game balance and using strategy to overcome your weaknesses.

You should feel like a scared little bunny if all you have is your HA and you're running around in the open.

[WritheNC]

The secret to killing a surging player is to shoot them no matter how silly or ridiculous their position may look. If they surge up stairs and their head is bumping the ceiling, shoot them. CSHD will work in your favor no matter how silly they look.

[TheN00b]

Sorry to sound like a n00b, but what is CSHD?

[Doppler]

Client Side Hit Detection

[TheN00b]

And that is?

[Professor Frink]

CSHD is...

U know when u see an enemy vehicle & all of a sudden you're run over despite the fact he looked to be at least 20 feet away? On his screen, he got ya. Or if u are in a VS max & jump jet well over a deci shot but still get hit? According to his pc, he nailed ya. And this concludes my terrible explanation... thank you thank you

[TheN00b]

Thanks for the explanation man, don't worry, I get it. CSHD is when, like, your comp is laggy and you're 'actually' standing still, even though you think yu're doin' somtin', and your opponent has a 1337 rig, so he sees everything in real time.

[JuSTCHiLLiN]

I only recently started playing an NC character with HA and surge. Definately a twitch factor involved but I've never had a problem with warping and I see more than my fair share of it (play on Emerald, live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada). The way to counter it is simply to fire at wherever the guy is. Maybe my client has extra time to have the player move in a straight line before it corrects the position since I have a ping of 100-130ms. It�s hard to say.

My problem with nerfing surge is that if you really want to fix the problem you'll have you nerf jumping too. You'll also have to nerf the standard and infil armors since they have decent speed as well.

If surge does go then NC HA is at a disadvantage, though it does have an advantage right now. TR HA is also at a disadvantage but not as much as it is mildly better at range. The VS HA is the least affected but still, any decent MA user should be able to take down a HA user at range. The HA user wouldn't have a way to affect that. Indoors, except for long hallways, I don't think there'd big a difference.

I definitely do not feel this is correct as it takes only 2 cert points for someone with MA and 6 (MA+HA) for the HA user. Sure, and HA user can use rexo (another 3 points) and have a MA rifle and an HA weapon. It now only takes 5 points to have access to ALL maxes, so for one more point you have access to AI, AA, and AV (or AM, if you will). HA is, basically, only good for AI and it should excel at it for the 4 (6) point cost.

I would also rather the devs spend more time looking at other issues rather than this. How about the memory leak or crashes to desktop? What about adding new game play modes, new features? Planetside has been out for a year and surge has been here the whole time. Why is it a major problem now?

[Veteran]

Removing Surge and reducing the footspeed of the armors would go a long way towards alleviating the problems. It would also drastically increase the value of vehicles. Why should it be common for a non-Surging infiltrator to run without rest at about 20kph instead of actually using that ATV or Harasser? As for a Surging infiltrator, that's 40kph for almost two full minutes. Enhanced leg units are one thing, but what about the enhanced cardio and pulminary that would certainly have to accompany them to provide that kind of physical performance? It's rather ridiculous, even in a game that has such a tenuous grasp on realism.

Surge sucks. It could easily be removed with no detriment to the game. A new implant to take its place could easily be far more exciting if done with discretion.

[Doppler]

I disagree with you Vet, but then again I think that is because I am a Rexo, and am used to using surge as a kind of sprint. I think the real answer here, is to require rexo to do heavy assault, this balances surge in and of itself because of the stamina drain issues. No fuss no muss.

[Unknown]

The secret to killing a surging player is to shoot them no matter how silly or ridiculous their position may look. If they surge up stairs and their head is bumping the ceiling, shoot them. CSHD will work in your favor no matter how silly they look.
Sure, but the problem is, they are almost impossible to shoot. Sure you may get one or 2 shots, but then they either disappear or go straight through the ceiling. Then you have to look around you just to find where they 'reappeared' and proceed to shoot them again. All the while, the jumping surge monkey will be shooting you, because you never dissappeared from their screen.

[Cyanide]

I think perhaps the best compromise would be to greatly increase the stamina drain of surge when a weapon is drawn. Like triple it or maybe more. That way an infiltrator can still manage to circle strafe 1 guy but if there's more than 1 guy he'll run out of stamina and the 2nd guy will get him. Also, the HA users would only be able to kill 1 or maybe 2 guys before they run out of stamina and get blown away because they're caught walking. But if you don't have a weapon out, you can still use surge to cover long distances on foot.

[Hamma]

Seems that teh majority of people think it should be changed. From reading what the dev's have posted they are going to try and resolve the "warping" issue before they change it further. Lets hope they can fix the warp ;)

[Spee]

If I had rexo, I would pack a pulsar w/my lasher so I wouldnt have to use surge. :(

[Queensidecastle]

Even if they totally and completely fix the warp, Surgiles will still suck, be cheap continue to exploit a situation that shouldnt exist. Please fix the warp (because that sucks no matter what) and please fix the Surgile problem (I vote for Stamina drain or Rexo prereq if Stamina cannot be tweaked to necessary levels)