Stamina and stuff

[BadAsh]

All these threads about Surge got me thinking about the whole implant and stamina implementation.

I think the whole thing should just be ditched and rebuilt.

If I were SOE here is how I�d structure things and why.

For players the stamina system sucks. No one likes to constantly have to micro manage their stamina bar and running out of stamina just a crappy experience for anyone. I say just ditch it all together. It�s whole purpose it to put limitations on player capabilities and this can be done in a better way.

What uses stamina and would be affected? Jumping and implants. So without stamina these would need to be managed. Here are my suggestions:

Jumping: Just institute a full 1 second delay in between jumps to prevent Quake style bunny hoppers. This is a reasonable solution and keeps players focus on playing and having fun.

Implants: Just put the implants into two categories: Active implants and passive implants. Active implants are the ones you have to activate to use. Passive implants are ones that are always on and you need not activate. This is already done BTW. I just want to highlight it here.

To manage this I�d keep it simple and effective: Only 1 active implant can be used at one time. Activating a new active implant should automatically cancel any other active implant currently �on� to facilitate easy switching. Most implants you would not want on all the time anyway such as Darklight. Passive implants should always be �active� as they are now. Range magnifier and second wind fall into this category.

The only two �pitfalls� to this system would be Surge and Audio Amplifier. These would become even more powerful if you could just leave them on all the time. But, this solution is simple. Just put a reasonable timer on Surge, say 10 seconds, and cause it to deactivate for 30 seconds after each use (a use would be defined by turning it off or timer expiration). For Audio Amplifier I�d just add the requirement that for it to work you have to be completely motionless. It can be left �on� but it would give no detection benefit unless you were not moving. It can be assumed that the noise of your own movement would interfere with and thus cancel the enhanced hearing benefit.

With this system you won�t have to fret over your stamina bar and waste time crouching somewhere to recharge your stamina. I think this will make the infantry experience more enjoyable and fun for everyone.

[BlackHawk]

What about Personal Shield? That uses stamina to determine how much damage it absorbs, doesn't it? Would that become a 10 second use too? If it does, it would lose some of its effectiveness, since you'd have to know there was damage coming to switch it on, rather than it acting as a kind of extra layer of armor.

Other than that though, the whole idea is do-able, but I am content with the system as is.

[BadAsh]

What about Personal Shield? That uses stamina to determine how much damage it absorbs, doesn't it? Would that become a 10 second use too? If it does, it would lose some of its effectiveness, since you'd have to know there was damage coming to switch it on, rather than it acting as a kind of extra layer of armor.

Other than that though, the whole idea is do-able, but I am content with the system as is.

Actually, personal shield drains your stamina like no ones business regardless if you are taking damage or not. Your stamina goes down FAST. I'd have to time it, but I'd guess after 10 seconds or so you'd be out of stamina. So yeah, something like a 10 second timer would work or perhaps make it a little weaker and just recharge slowly like a perminant vehicle shield for infantry... just turn it on and you get a 50 point shield or maybe 75 point... would need some testing. Remember, only 1 active implant would work at a time so if you wanted to surge, regenerate, or turn on darklight you'd lose your shield.

I can't stand the current stamina system. To me it's a bore and a chore to keep constant track of. Rather than enjoying a good fight I find myself micro managing armor and health levels and watching my stamina level like a hawk. To me that just subtracts from the fun element. Just let me fight until someone can take me down. I don't want to be killed because I ran out of stamina nor do I want an easy kill because my enemy was reduced to crawling due to exhausting his/her stamina level.

This game has some low points which I'll list here. If these are addressed I think it would be much more enjoyable to play and have a larger following.

TOP 10 LAME things in Planetside -in no particular order-:

1. running out of stamina
2. the experince sharing system (ever drive a tank and have the gunner be in your platoon, but not in your squad? 0 points for you, but you get to watch someone earning lots of exp... now that's fun!)
3. getting stuck without transportation
4. waiting for the HART
5. over-powered and under-powered weapons/equipment/empires
6. persistant critical bugs (surge warping and lattice link bug)
7. getting mowed - worse when it's a support vehicle and you are an AV MAX
8. the horrific COF on most weapons - to my way of thinking it detracts of player skill...i.e. aiming while moving and dodging.
9. incomplete character stats- I'd like to see kill/death ratios and things like accuracy tracked...
10. dumb things- like a Harrasser can move undetected by the Lattice Link Radar, but a guy in an infiltration suit shows up on the radar... WTF logic is that? Also, 6 plasma grenades fit in a small ammo box but individually they take up 2x the space... there is a whole list of these kinds of things... and the biggest dumb thing... reaching that just barely unclimbable point in a hill/mountain you are trying to scale... OMG is that aggrivating... you wasted time getting to that point and now have to turn around... Grrrrr...

Basically, the game play lameness could be cleaned up... the bugs I can understand, they are unexpected and may take a long time to nail down and repair...

For me (and hence this post) the stamina system is obstructive to fun... I get enough of these obstructions and I'll go play another game (which I'm actually considering right now)... enough people do that... and well you get the picture.

mini-rant over

[Tieom]

10 second timer wouldn't work for surge... IMO it is supposed to be a substitute for having no ride to the next base, not a combat enhancement, and I use it more for the former than the latter.

8. the horrific COF on most weapons - to my way of thinking it detracts of player skill...i.e. aiming while moving and dodging.

This is a whole other ball game, but IMO planetside is/should be more of a tactical FPS - you shouldn't be aiming while moving and dodging, your accuracy is SUPPOSED to be ass while you're doing that. You're supposed to be aiming while crouched behind cover... not running around at mach 3 shooting ciggarettes out of fly's mouths at 100 yards, like in UT or quake or whatever.

[xmodum]

:doh: IMO means ????

[Aurorapro]

I think its fine as it is it is a bit annoying taking damage and then stopping in the middle of a battlefield with 1 health but isn't that what you would do n real life being close to death?

[BadAsh]

10 second timer wouldn't work for surge... IMO it is supposed to be a substitute for having no ride to the next base, not a combat enhancement, and I use it more for the former than the latter.



This is a whole other ball game, but IMO planetside is/should be more of a tactical FPS - you shouldn't be aiming while moving and dodging, your accuracy is SUPPOSED to be ass while you're doing that. You're supposed to be aiming while crouched behind cover... not running around at mach 3 shooting ciggarettes out of fly's mouths at 100 yards, like in UT or quake or whatever.

Point 1: IMHO if you need a ride cert in a vehicle, surge is for closing the gap with the enemy... otherwise you could never catch someone from behind or close the range with that sniper... it's this games "sprinting" option...

Point 2: This is a FPS game with a few RPG elements and that's it. Removing player skill (i.e. aiming) for skilless spam weapons is lame. The other day I was on top of a tower and decided to test a Beamer pistol (hailed by many here to be the "sniper" pistol) on enemy deployables infesting the area. So I switched it to AP mode, zoomed in, crouched... and 2 out of every 4 shots missed the spitfire I was aiming at and the range was from the top of the tower to about 10 yards out... just out of spitfire range. This is a game of point and pray. Just analyze the sniper rifle and you will see what I mean. You can't move the barrel to follow a target like a real marksman, you have to either hit them when they are completley still OR predict where they will run to and aim at that spot way ahead of time. No real fluid leading or aiming (read: skill) involved, just a little patience and that's it.

Also, I keep hearing how this is supposed to be a tactics and stratagy game and not "just another FPS". Well, I have yet to see any real battle plans out of the CR5's yet. It's basically just Zerg control "everyone go here" or "someone repair the gen" or other ultra-basics. The term Zerg comes from the game Starcraft... now there is a stratagy game. Planetside is not. Who "wins" by taking more bases and conts depends on what empire has more players logged on that the time. Plain and simple.

All I ask for is a weapon that hits what I aimed at... so my accuracy is to blame for a hit or miss not some random COF calculation.

[BadAsh]

:doh: IMO means ????

IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

[Mognoc]

I agree with some of your opinions, Ash, but I do have qualms with your 'nerf teh stamina' idea. For me, in heavy combat, stamina is almost never a problem for me. The only times I've had it run out on me is when I'm using Adv. Regeneration and it runs out. You shouldn't have a problem either, unless you're using personal shield and/or have darklight on all the time. As for people having no transport, I do agree. They should package the Wraith for standard certing and have the Basilisk as a 1 cert point vehicle. Just my .2 Cents.

[Rayder]

Maybe the Devs could follow physics and actually have the accuracy of your shots determined by how much your moving the gun (plus the teeny tiny little CoF for the gun). For example. If your running, your gun is obviously moving more than when your standing still. Also, I should note that guns have a small CoF themselves, and 99% of the time inaccuracy is a user fault. So, with that said, if your running, your gun is moving more, so, your accuracy would be more fugled. However, if your standing, your gun won't be moving as much as it would be if you were running, so, your accuracy would be better. If they implemented the accuracy system on how much the gun is moving, and the power behind each shot (most assault rifles, snipers, and the more powerful of the pistols, have lots of kickback [lots being more 3 or 5 in.], thus making the gun move up [and to the side sometimes (why do you think they fire in bursts?)]). So, the more you fire, the longer you sustain your bursts the more control you would have to use to keep the crosshairs on your target.

[Strak]

Maybe the Devs could follow physics and actually have the accuracy of your shots determined by how much your moving the gun (plus the teeny tiny little CoF for the gun). For example. If your running, your gun is obviously moving more than when your standing still. Also, I should note that guns have a small CoF themselves, and 99% of the time inaccuracy is a user fault. So, with that said, if your running, your gun is moving more, so, your accuracy would be more fugled. However, if your standing, your gun won't be moving as much as it would be if you were running, so, your accuracy would be better. If they implemented the accuracy system on how much the gun is moving, and the power behind each shot (most assault rifles, snipers, and the more powerful of the pistols, have lots of kickback [lots being more 3 or 5 in.], thus making the gun move up [and to the side sometimes (why do you think they fire in bursts?)]). So, the more you fire, the longer you sustain your bursts the more control you would have to use to keep the crosshairs on your target.

I read your post and thought so if we are moving we shoot less accurately....whats new about that? The system may not be super realistic, but the more you move the less likely you are to hit your opponent, ultimate example is the Bolt Driver. If you use an automatic weapon it should get less accurate, yep my punisher definteley does that.

Your idea might look prettier on the screen, but we essentially have a system to accomplish just what your described already in place.

[Rayder]

No, my system takes skill. The one in place now requires none except to know when to stop moving. With my system it would take skill to control your aim while moving. You'd have to take in account the recoil, the position of your enemy, how fast your moving. Right now it's just a simple little 'the longer you fire the more inaccurate your going to be no matter what' system.

A gun doesn't shoot a bullet 6 miles up and the next shot almost hits your foot while your pointing it directly in front of you.

[Veteran]

Without the COF, aimbot cheaters can cash in. Blame the exploiters for the imperfect system. Without exploiters, a pixel-perfect aiming system might work, but not in the real world.

[TheN00b]

Quite honestly, it would be absolutely insane to eliminate the COF system. It is an incredibly important part of Planetside, and defines the fighting system in a way that would be very difficult to replace. (Curses quietly about bunny-hopping Quake fuckers)

[BadAsh]

Quite honestly, it would be absolutely insane to eliminate the COF system. It is an incredibly important part of Planetside, and defines the fighting system in a way that would be very difficult to replace. (Curses quietly about bunny-hopping Quake fuckers)

The only thing about Quake that ever really bothered me was the bunny hopping, you either mastered it or you got owned... But, other than that I loved the weapon system and how it took skill to bring down an opponent... great deathmatch and capture the flag game...

PlanetSide is nice because you have lots to do and the vehicles add a cool element, but I sure wish I'd get more credit for aiming.

[Strak]

No, my system takes skill. The one in place now requires none except to know when to stop moving. With my system it would take skill to control your aim while moving. You'd have to take in account the recoil, the position of your enemy, how fast your moving. Right now it's just a simple little 'the longer you fire the more inaccurate your going to be no matter what' system.

A gun doesn't shoot a bullet 6 miles up and the next shot almost hits your foot while your pointing it directly in front of you.

The point is of course is we have a viable system that makes the guns less accuarte the more you are moving, there is much more cooler and important things to work on in PS.

Also in your system a cloaker hits me, he better kill me cause if not I'm getting up and I'm hitting him with my sniper rifle a MILLION times easier under your system than under the current one.

[Rayder]

At least make it so that I can shoot 1 bullet at a time and have it actually hit it's mark. If I'm crouching, aiming at something 100 game meters away, it shouldn't miss, that's just wrong.

[Strak]

At least make it so that I can shoot 1 bullet at a time and have it actually hit it's mark. If I'm crouching, aiming at something 100 game meters away, it shouldn't miss, that's just wrong.

Why, I watched the spotter half of a sniper/spotter team miss at 100 meters or yards and the Sniper half miss at 300.

Yeah and these are the snipers the countries send to competitions.