Do you consider the Jackhammer overpowered? (Balance whiners keep out)

[EarlyDawn]

This was posted to the official forums and provoked an interesting debate, so as much as I hate balance arguments, I think this would be fun to discuss. The main topic is jackhammer, but vote your mind on all of the above.

[Note, poll is public]

[Spee]

Yes, I believe it's balanced. Mainly because The only time you can take out someone who's outside, which is 90% of where I fight, is if you catch them off guard, or come behind them.


Also, if the enemy is stupid, it's absoloutly decimating. I took out 5 Rexo's in a stairwell, simply because they wouldnt turn the corner to kill me, in my standard armor.

[1024]

kill HA.

[ZionsFire]

xmodum voted in each one :lol:

[SandTrout]

As an infiltrator, I fear the Lasher the most, but as a gauss user, I'd say the MCG is the most powerful only b/c of it's range.

[slytiger]

I say they are fine as they are. I dont use any of them and i dont fear any of them in combat either. I try to avoid them if possible and let my partners with HA weapons take them or find a point of opportunity and kill them with either my amp or punisher/plasma grenades.

[Katanaboy]

Are we talking about balanced in regards to one another, or just in general?

If in general, then i suppose they're alright, since they cost a hefty 4 points.

In regards to one another, I believe the JH is more powerful than the other HA. While lasher has a faster TTK (and a very fast RoF), and can kill in 3-4 shots, its projectiles move pretty slow, so misses are plentiful (has a BIG CoF, but not as big as MCG), unless the enemy runs straight for you. However, its lashing ability ensures that no shot is wasted, although the lash does very minor damage. Also, its cone of fire is painfully large and it has very strong recoil. This is the best one of the bunch to use against infiltrators when you dont have DL (spray and pray).

MCG, i believe, has the fastest TTK, along with a neverending clip, but its spread is very wide (I believe the worst CoF), even when crouched. Even so, MCG theoretically has the best range, as it can almost hold its own in the MA ranges. Its CoF bloom is better than it used to be.

JH's CoF is smaller than the others' even though it does not use the traditional CoF system. Crouching, standing, walking, jumping, flying, or what have you now, its pellet spread remains the same, the way it should be. The only problem, a JH user can bunny hop and still hit you every time. However, its spread worsens as distance increases, eventually leading to near zero damage at ranges of over 30m or so. Counter-however, anything within those 30m is easy game for a Jack. The jack (and all other shotgun weapons) have projectiles that have instantaneous velocity, so no leading is required. Point at the enemy, click while they're still in the reticule, and enjoy the little amber circle. So while more shots may be necessary, as long as one can aim, the opponent is going down. Also, the jackhammer has the worst RoF of the three, but even so it's not that bad when compared to a sweeper, and to top it off, it has a secondary mode that fires three shots in quick succession, potentially downing a foe with a single click.

So to sum it up, all the HA have their pros and their cons, but JH has best mix of damage and ease to use.

[SandTrout]

Common missconception= Shotgun weapons are insta-hit.

The pellets do have velocity, but this is not visible because they do lack tracers(something of an advangage). The main reason that they apear to have intsa-hit is because if you shoot at someone in the crosshair, the chances are that they won't be moveing fast enough to miss the entire spread of pellets(the basis of the combat shotgun). This results in a hit, damage registered, and a pretty amber circle. At the ranges a shotgun is used, most weapons are near-insta hit.

Note: The above stated is based primaraly on knowledge on the general workings of the game. All other weapons have travel time, and there seems little reason for shotguns to be an exception. The only reason I assume for shotguns not haveing tracers is because shotguns dont fire tracer rounds and that grafic would be another thing for your computer to draw. I will repeal the above statement if I hear differently from a developer.

[EVILoHOMER]

whats ha?

[Eldanesh]

Also, the CoF on the JH does not effectivly remain the same no matter what, the center of the pellet spread is dictated by the cof, so it is entirely possible to totally miss somone wiht a shot while moving/jumping. (JH also happens to have a massive CoF bloom, takes up a large part of the screen at times, you really have to be at point-blank for it to work well.)

I like the MCG, thus I keep a locker full of 18 of them. break them out whenever I have a tower -> base fight, because JH blows at mid-range.

[Skullhead]

I do agree that the jackhammer is overpowered But I can't tell if its a little bit or a lot. I'm mainly VS on emerald and sometimes its just crazy to go into a Tower when you know there are people inside with jackhammers. its like the VS should create Giant atomic Monkeys that are purple and sing the I Love you song and hug them to death to counter the Jackhammer.

I don't have a problem with the jackhammer itself its just the sheer volume of people that use it also the secondary fire is a factor that should have a much longer delay and shouldn't be used in conjuction with the primary fire (firing in primary once and then switching to secondary Immideatly afterwords and finishing off the person).

Other than the secondary fire and the Giant atomic monkeys I have no other problems with the jackhammer well except it should have an Icee dispenser on it.

[Incompetent]

Ah, great post to come back to

HA is balanced among itself, no HA weapon is much more powerful then any other. HA is not balanced with any other cert in the game though, all three weapons need to be beaten to death by the nerf bat or axed completely.

[Liquidtide]

I voted that they each are overpowered.

JH is overpowered under 30M
MCG is overpowered 30M-100M
Lash is overpowered becasue you can't hide.

You decide...

If you have a JH you better stay alive till they get within 30m
If you have a MCG you better kill them before you get under 30m
If you have a Lash you better keep them running and keep the orbs on them.

'Nuff Said

[kerosene31]

The jackhammer is for sure the best HA weapon. The issue of balance comes down to whether each weapon class should be balanced out against each other, or just overall empire balance. Now I fall into the latter category, and say that just the overall empires need to be balanced.

With that said, I don't think the jh needs a nerf. It is only effective from point-blank range. Combine it with surge and you have yourself a very good tactic, but I've never cried about it being unfair. I just sit back and wait for those surging JH users to bounce off my Quasar armor...

[Queensidecastle]

What makes me ROFL are the 2 people that voted the Jackhammer is underpowered. I mean, what kind of alternate reality world do you have to be living in to think that?

EDIT: its up to 5 now. WTF are these people? Must be the same people that think the Matrix is real and shit like that

[Happy lil Elf]

What makes me laugh is this:
This was posted to the official forums and provoked an interesting debate, so as much as I hate balance arguments, I think this would be fun to discuss. The main topic is jackhammer, but vote your mind on all of the above.

Did anyone else smell something funky while reading that? A good discussion on the official boards and a "fun" balance discussion...:huh:

[apachepilotpat]

whats ha?
HA = Heavy Assult

[EarlyDawn]

What makes me laugh is this:

Did anyone else smell something funky while reading that? A good discussion on the official boards and a "fun" balance discussion...:huh:Don't like it? Nobody is forcing you to read. :lol:

[beave]

It's not really the JH that is overpowered. Although, they should get rid of the secondary fire mode.

The problem is the Surge Monkeys and the players that are exploiting the Overcolocking bug in PS. It is very hard to hit the Surge monkeys with anything, even another JH.

BTW, if you exploit the game, that is considered cheating by the other players. Basically if you need to cheat to feel superior than the others, you need re-evaluate you life.

Woof!

[Madcow]

Not predictably at all, the vast majority of the 'well-balanced' voters happen to wear blue. I'm quite content in my 'dump the whole thing' vote.

[dscytherulez]

Yes, I believe it's balanced. Mainly because The only time you can take out someone who's outside, which is 90% of where I fight, is if you catch them off guard, or come behind them.


Also, if the enemy is stupid, it's absoloutly decimating. I took out 5 Rexo's in a stairwell, simply because they wouldnt turn the corner to kill me, in my standard armor.

^ what he said...

[Vick]

Heavy assault weapons are balanced to eachother, but not to anything else in the game.

Nerf them all.

[BadAsh]

What amused me was the note on the title of the thread about balance whiners keeping out. It�s been my experience that the people who don�t want game balance, and who complain about people who bring it up for discussion, are those who are enjoying the benefit of an imbalance. So imagine my shock to see the thread poster wears blue. :) Statistically the NC get 10% more kills per player on average than any other empire. That alone defines a problem. For the NC it comes in 2 flavors: The Jackhammer and the Vanguard.

IMHO the Jackhammer is over powered only because of its secondary fire mode. This is fairly obvious. The Vanguard�s advantages are a little more subtle, well besides the not-so-subtle main gun power. But, they are enough to make a difference. My biggest killing sprees in the game have been with Agile/Jackhammer and gunning in a Vanguard with a good driver. The other HA and Tanks just don�t compare. And the stats, i.e. the facts, not opinion back this up.

[EarlyDawn]

I agree that the secondary fire should be taken out.

As for my credentials, I also play Terran so don't accuse me of being biased. I've had the jackhammer for a little under a week and I'm probably going to decert it today because it is generally useless for the role I want to play, Pilot and Support.

[Madcow]

I agree that the secondary fire should be taken out.

As for my credentials, I also play Terran so don't accuse me of being biased. I've had the jackhammer for a little under a week and I'm probably going to decert it today because it is generally useless for the role I want to play, Pilot and Support.

I think most of us play more than one empire, but I also think that just about all of us are biased towards the empire we play the most. Heck, I think it's imperative to play multiple empires to truly have any idea what is/isn't overpowered. I know I used to think the Striker wasn't too powerful against air until I played the AA MAXs for a while and realized how much more potent the Striker was than they were.

The impression one gets from seeing threads like these is that if a weapon is under scrutiny then the people who normally play the empire which benefits from that weapon will swoop in with a staunch defense of it. It happened with the Striker, it happened with the uberLasher (and the poor VS did get screwed only having it for 2 weeks in that buffed out state, the other empires have gotten to enjoy their overpowered stuff for much longer before it got yanked), and it happened/happens with the Jackhammer. It's the circle of life.

[Professor Frink]

HA is quite well balanced. I get frustrated by Sugile Noobhammers but my Lasher is pretty deadly too. This may be for another thread but if they do impliment a fix on HA/Surge, maybe give the JH a LITTLE better range. Not much but enough to do a bit of damage beyond 20 meters. Also the NC wont bitch as much. Just a thought.

[EarlyDawn]

Like I said. This thread is targetted at observing community reaction to each weapon, I'm not defending anything. I voted my mind just like everyone else did. If you feel I'm "protecting my treasured weapon", so be it.

My comment on the topic was admittedly misworded, I meant to imply that people who stick their heads in just to tell people to stop bitching about weapon balance shouldn't bother posting. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if people didn't comment :rofl:

[NoSurrender]

theyre balanced but like some have said surge+HA=killing spree. so i say take out HART and HA.

[EarlyDawn]

I'd love to see Surge and the HART get taken out.

[TheRagingGerbil]

All the weapons are fine, shit can surge (and the HART).

[Vick]

Why is there whining about the secondary mode? No one uses that anyway...

[Spee]

Why is there whining about the secondary mode? No one uses that anyway...

:huh:



*hopes his e-sarcasm-dar is broke*

[Hamma]

I think ALL HA is overpowered, you should never be able to kill someone so quickly with any hand-held weapon.

[Hamma]

All the weapons are fine, shit can surge (and the HART).:lol:

[Queensidecastle]

I think ALL HA is overpowered, you should never be able to kill someone so quickly with any hand-held weapon.
I agree. I think that the Sweeper and Rocklet had enough ttk to suit close combat situations nicely, yet still creating a situation where MAXs are actually needed as a form of shock tooper for battles. However the Devs seemed to lack the will to do what they ough have done and nerf the original Jackhammer down to where the other HA was at the time. This was a mistake and gave Planetside an all too much Quake-like feel to it. Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle and there isnt any going back

[JuSTCHiLLiN]

I don't think HA is over powered since it takes 6 cert points to get it.

[Queensidecastle]

I dont think its the cert points that bother folks. Rather it is the Quake-style, instagib aspect of gameplay it creates.

[Doppler]

I find your reliance on blaming it all on the Jackhammer shortsided Queen. I for one remember when it was reffered to as the Joke Hammer.

[Queensidecastle]

I am not talking about beta

[Doppler]

But yet you look for the quick simple answers and continualy, point back to the jackhammer. ANyone who disagrees with you is A) wrong B) makes you roll on the floor laughing.

[Madcow]

I find your reliance on blaming it all on the Jackhammer shortsided Queen. I for one remember when it was reffered to as the Joke Hammer.

Ummm, that was beta. Nobody has called it that since a week before release.

[xmodum]

xmodum voted in each one :lol:
:groovy:i got bored :doh: :groovy:

[ghost018]

One shot of Jackhammer alternate fire can kill anything up to Reinforced Armor. I wish my MCG could do that.

ghost

[Unknown]

I voted Jackhammer was overpowered, mainly because of surge monkeys. Try to kid yourself all you want, but nobody uses surge+HA nearly as much as the NC (Nearly everybody has surge, that's beside the point. What I'm referring to is Standard/Agile+Surge+HA aka "Surge monkey", the NC dominate this statistic by a wide margin).

The Mini-Chaingun is well balanced in my opinion. Since the balance patch, I can't think of any reason this could be considered underpowerd. Possibly the amount of ammo it consumes, but that's to be expected with a chaingun.

The lasher, I voted as underpowered, but only because it needs a slightly larger clip. All it needs is maybe 5 more shots. I'd even accept a slight damage nerf if they'd just give it a larger clip!

[Cyanide]

I don't think the HA weapons are unbalanced by themselves. I think the imbalance is created when HA weapons are combined with surge that lets them run very quickly for a long time. I don't think that you can call something balanced when it's powerful and extremely fast.

[Rbstr]

Ballenced all the way around, but i think i need a sort of Super MA cert thats is like HA but for ranged fights.

[Rarzo]

I voted that The JH is overpowered because Im jealous that the VS dont have it... :tear:

[Veteran]

To answer that, two words:

crack babies

[BadAsh]

I dont think its the cert points that bother folks. Rather it is the Quake-style, instagib aspect of gameplay it creates.

A point I'd like to make here... why is it a problem when an infantry guy can get more than 3 quick kills before dying?

HA did not introduce instagib into a game that has vehicular mowing, Reavers, 1-shot infantry kill tanks, orbital strikes for that mass instagib, boomers, Liberator bombers etc... there are dozens of ways to die quickly in this game. Pulling one out of the hat and blaming it for all the woes is just not right IMHO...

[Doppler]

A point I'd like to make here... why is it a problem when an infantry guy can get more than 3 quick kills before dying?

HA did not introduce instagib into a game that has vehicular mowing, Reavers, 1-shot infantry kill tanks, orbital strikes for that mass instagib, boomers, Liberator bombers etc... there are dozens of ways to die quickly in this game. Pulling one out of the hat and blaming it for all the woes is just not right IMHO...

I kinda tend to have to agree with him, tanks are more effective then the best Jack/Lash/MCG user, cost 3 cert points less, and have no real supply require (you need a tech plant, oh no)

[flypengy]

^^^

enforcer gun is nearly as powerful as the vanguards and doesn't even need a tech now :}

[Eldanesh]

^^^

enforcer gun is nearly as powerful as the vanguards and doesn't even need a tech now :}
Nearly, one-hit's an agile and down, takes two on rexo. IIRC, like 3-4 for maxs.

But yeah, phear the enforcer noobs. :rolleyes:

[Cloaked_Thunder]

IMHO I believe the JH is slightly overpowered. With the MCG vs. JH, I always get capped especially in tower fights. The vanguard needs nerfin IMO,..... or jack up the prowler and mag's ROF.

[Chaaos]

Hehe, maybe they want more range from it. Or they feel the poll is totally pointless that they submit whatever as their vote. :shrug:

[Queensidecastle]

HA did not introduce instagib into a game that has vehicular mowing, Reavers, 1-shot infantry kill tanks, orbital strikes for that mass instagib, boomers, Liberator bombers etc... there are dozens of ways to die quickly in this game. Pulling one out of the hat and blaming it for all the woes is just not right IMHO...

Apples. Oranges.

[BadAsh]

Apples. Oranges.

Not really,

To hear some of you talk, you�d think HA somehow ruined the game. To get HA you have to spend 6 cert points and you are only effective against other infantry. I can beat a HA user with several 3 cert weapons/items.

3 Cert HA banes:

Plasma Thumper� if I�m in a base wall the HA will die, if we end up in CQB I�ll probably die
Sniper Rifle: again it�s a matter of situation� at range HA dies, at CQB the sniper dies
Infiltrator Suit: Only 2 certs� if you detect me I die and if you don�t you die
AI MAX: HA�s only chance is to change ammo and be able to surge behind me, if I put my back to a wall this won�t happen.
Mosquito: HA has the option to hide in a building or die
Lightning: HA has the option to hide in a building or die
Assault buggy: HA has the option to hide in a building or get mowed by the driver or owned by my gunner
Any Tank: does this need to be described?

HA is the ultimate infantry weapon and it costs enough cert points to warrant the advantage in a limited situation: Anti-Infantry CQB. That�s what it does, and that�s all it does. To hear some of you talk about it somehow turning PS into quake� you�d think just cert in HA and own everything. Now, if HA gave you the ability to mow through infantry, tanks, aircraft, MAX Units, and everything else I�d have to agree with you. With the exception of the secondary fire mode of the JH, HA is NOT instagib. On a typical HA frontal assault I usually manage to kill 2 or maybe 3 MA users before I�m taken down. This is far from �uber� status.

The real problem here is, IMHO, is that too many people choose not to spend 4 cert points on a limited anti-infantry weapon and instead get vehicle and support certs. You are mad because after killing several people in your Lightning or Reaver, you get killed by HA when you bail out and try and fight with your MA weapon. You want to be a Super Joe CE, ADV Hack, ADV Med, Pilot extraordinaire and then still want to own infantry with your free (0 cert cost) Agile Armor and cheap (2 cert) MA Sweeper. But you get owned by the guy who invested 6 cert points (MA = 2 unused pre-requisite, HA = 4) for an anti-infantry set up and complain about �uber� weapons? I just don�t see the validity of this argument.

[Queensidecastle]

The majority of targets to shoot at are infantry

HA is the best and most effective way to kill other infantry that can be carried

Comparing vehicle weapons and vehicles in general to infantry is apples and oranges and that was the comment which I was responding to. In your subsequent post, you have created a different argument.

You want to be a Super Joe CE, ADV Hack, ADV Med, Pilot extraordinaire and then still want to own infantry with your free (0 cert cost) Agile Armor and cheap (2 cert) MA Sweeper. But you get owned by the guy who invested 6 cert points (MA = 2 unused pre-requisite, HA = 4) for an anti-infantry set up and complain about �uber� weapons? I just don�t see the validity of this argument
You must have me totally confused with someone else. I have heavy assault on 3 of my characters and dont have trouble killing anyone. However I do recognize the Quake-like feel that HA has brought to the game and prefered the damage output from infantry before the HA buffs

[Spee]

Today, I got 70 kills with a lasher.


Just the lasher.

[JFPhoenix]

I think they are all balanced but I don't like the fact that when you are at closed range with a medium assault weapon and the other guy has HA then unless he's really bad at shooting and you are really good at shooting he's going to kill you. The only way to counter that is a MAX or another HA.

[BadAsh]

The majority of targets to shoot at are infantry

HA is the best and most effective way to kill other infantry that can be carried

Comparing vehicle weapons and vehicles in general to infantry is apples and oranges and that was the comment which I was responding to. In your subsequent post, you have created a different argument.


You must have me totally confused with someone else. I have heavy assault on 3 of my characters and dont have trouble killing anyone. However I do recognize the Quake-like feel that HA has brought to the game and prefered the damage output from infantry before the HA buffs

I don�t think your apples and oranges analogy applies here because:

1. Vehicles are a viable item/tool that you can have access to provided you spend your cert points on one. HA is a viable item/tool that you have access to if you spend your cert points on one. Yes, it�s the most powerful infantry carried weapon. For 6 cert points it better be good for something! I think your comparison is more �what weapons infantry and carry� and mine is more along the �bigger picture� view comparing �what things you can cert in� to attain killing power in the game.

2. A quake-like feel to PS? Come on man :) I don�t see this at all. In Quake 1 I became very proficient with the rocket launcher, strafe-jumping, and timing power-up respawn times. After mastering all 3 of these �skill� sets I was able to obliterate whole CTF teams single-handedly. PS has nothing that can come close to this. In PS with HA you have to hit the target several times at close range to get a kill. In Quake I could shoot the floor in a room from a mile away once with a quad rocket and turn the 3-5 guys there to goo. I�d agree PS had a quake-like feel if vehicles were removed, and a weapon equivalent to the Vanguard�s main gun was available to infantry (complete with a pack of 300 rockets � the Quake 1 ammo limit)� now THAT would be a Quake-like feel� :)

In PS there are many ways to die besides getting killed by HA. Of those HA is the hardest to score a kill with. So generally speaking, HA does not dominate the game. It dominates anti-infantry CQB only. I don�t have a problem with that, not for it�s cert cost, and not for the ability for players to specialize at what they want to be good at. Want be king infantry? Then get HA and practice. Want to be super ace? Then cert in air cavalry and practice.

My point here is� heavy infantry should not complain about getting killed by tanks and aircraft and caught in the open. Likewise, tank drivers and pilots should not complain when they get killed by heavy infantry when caught in CQB. You can�t be Super Joe everything, the cert system was built to prevent that.

[Cyanide]

A point I'd like to make here... why is it a problem when an infantry guy can get more than 3 quick kills before dying?

HA did not introduce instagib into a game that has vehicular mowing, Reavers, 1-shot infantry kill tanks, orbital strikes for that mass instagib, boomers, Liberator bombers etc... there are dozens of ways to die quickly in this game. Pulling one out of the hat and blaming it for all the woes is just not right IMHO...


You can't compare an infantry weapon to vehicles and CR abilities. First off, the vehicles have to be purchased at a base and then driven to the battle. Even then they're usually destroyed fairly quickly (if the opponent knows what they're doing), at which point you have to buy another one and drive it all the way back to the fight. Not to mention the fact that most powerfull vehicles require 2 or more people to operate effectively, where as the jackhammer is a 1 man insta-gib weapon. Orbital strike not only requires a high CR rank, but it also has a very long timer on it and most infantry can run for cover or out of its radius before it actually goes off. On the other hand, the jackhammer can be purchased at any AMS, tower, or base terminal. You can also use a jackhammer inside where as all the things you mentioned are outside weapons only. I've never seen 2 guys clear a CC room with 4 defenders using a vangaurd or a reaver or an orbital strike, but i've seen it done with jackhammers and surge.

[Incompetent]

HA does not dominate the game. It dominates anti-infantry CQB only. Question one, what is the most important room in the game?
Question two, where is it located and how is it taken/held?

You can toss out stats until the day you die, it does not change one simple fact, fighting against HA is never fun. Nothing brings out as much swearing, discontent and sheer hatred as some little bitch with a HA weapon and surge, I would rather go one on one with a vanguard using a suppressor. And last i checked people played games for fun.

[BadAsh]

I've never seen 2 guys clear a CC room with 4 defenders using a vangaurd or a reaver or an orbital strike, but i've seen it done with jackhammers and surge.

So, in your example, you are talking about 2 guys with HA killing 4 guys with MA? I should hope so, a 2 to 1 kill ratio is not so bad considering those 2 players invested more combined cert points in anti-infantry weapondry than all 4 of the MA users did.

Also, I've seen a plasma thumper own a CC with 5 defenders and I've seen a Pounder MAX kill several CC defenders clearing that out... that's a higher kill ratio with spending less certs... so why is HA the only problem?

[Madcow]

All of the big HA fans are obviously trying to compensate for something.

Sorry, had to be said.

[BadAsh]

You can toss out stats until the day you die, it does not change one simple fact, fighting against HA is never fun. Nothing brings out as much swearing, discontent and sheer hatred as some little bitch with a HA weapon and surge, I would rather go one on one with a vanguard using a suppressor. And last i checked people played games for fun.

Nothing brings out more swearing? What the "little bitch" in his Reaver shooing hiking HA infantry? What about the "little bitch" Magmower efortlessly mashing several HA infantry? What about the "little bitch" infiltrator hiding invisibly around the corner with boomer set at the only room entrance? What about the "little bitch" with his flail spamming shots into a base court yard? The "little bitch" list can go on and there are many many "unfair" match-ups in this game.

Whats so "fun" about any of those? Seems to me "fun" is defined by whoever is using the more powerful tool given the situation. Those ill equiped die.

But this is a waste of time, you won't see what you don't want to see. So keep rushing HA infantry with MA and keep dying and keep bitching about it. Don't stop and think... herm... maybe I need more firepower so let me get an AI MAX or SW or *gasp* my own HA. Basically, you choose to not use HA and then choose to face HA on their own ground... you were thinking about as much as the grease stain on the bumper of the Vanguard.

[SandTrout]

HA is not as highly of a specialized cert as some seem to think. The Lasher, MCG, and JH can make exelent anti-MAX weapons when combined with surge. I think the 1 balance to HA would be to remove/reduce the AP capablitys of the weapons. That way, MAXes are the counter to HA(they can't hack along with the 5-minute timer), and Decies and AV are the counter to MAXes.

The MCG also makes a good AA weapon, much better than the Lasher or JH.

[noxious]

The Jackhammer is not overpowered.

[Ed the MAD]

as a shotgun, it is best used in close quarters. i can honestly say that i have taken down many HA specialists using only a Sweeper. i have never really used a Jackhammer yet, because i prefer the MinniGun. and i'm more of a Pilot right now. but the Shotgun is not for use outdoors. many who say it's overpowered simply say that because they can't properly utilise the different weapons properly. for whatever reason.

i do belive it is underpowered. however, in all truth, i belive that all the weapons and vehicles in planetside are underpowered. that has to do mainly with the fact that i prefer a more realistic gameing expirience. however, all things being relative, it is still underpowered. as is the Gauss, the Enforcer, the Vanguard, and the Bolt driver.

[Unknown]

Oh for crying out loud, stop trying to jack the price of HA up to promote your cause. It's 4 cert points, not 6. "But you have to buy Medium assault first for 2 points". Yeah? So? You don't see people touting the cost of AV/Spec assault/Sniping as 5 points because of this do you? Even in this thread, someone tried to claim HA was 6 CP while thumper and sniper were "3 cert banes".

[DeadTeddy]

would you people stop this?

all HA weapons suck outdoors. yes the JH is a bit more powerfull in indoor fighting but only in stairs, in big rooms it's worthless. the lasher have an advantage over it that they can give covering fire, the main usage of heavy weaponry. you won't be so happy to run right into a room with orbs or shots covering it, even if it's a matter of luck weather or not you get hit. a JH has invisible shots, and won't kill anyone at more then 10 meters. this weakness more then balances the advantage it has in stairs.

[TheN00b]

Essentially, I believe that yes, HA will dominate you indoors. Is that wrong? Hell no. Excluding things like MA, every certification in the game has a special purpose at which it excels, and at which it is better than anything else for that purpose. Is the Decimator good at what it does (Indoor MAX killing and shot range AV)? You'd better believe it. Are AV weapons better than any other weapon for long range AV? Hmm, I think there's a trend here... If you are getting killed too many times for your comfort by HA, then you're doing something wrong. Most likely, the thing you are doing wrong is trying to consistently beat HA indoors with MA, SA, or pistols. If that's not the case, then why the hell are you fuckers complaining about HA? Outdoors, vehicles can pwn any mindless grunt they goddamn fell like pwning, and Thumpers, Bolt Drivers, and their ilk can blow them away from long range. So, if you're complaining about how your Pulsar keeps getting pwned by Jackhammers, then suck it up.

P.S. Because I personally have not seen many surgers, on my side or as enemies, I cannot say much about the problems of Surge. However, if I am wrong, and if I am a mindless asshole spewing idiotic inventive, please tell me otherwise.

[BadAsh]

Oh for crying out loud, stop trying to jack the price of HA up to promote your cause. It's 4 cert points, not 6. "But you have to buy Medium assault first for 2 points". Yeah? So? You don't see people touting the cost of AV/Spec assault/Sniping as 5 points because of this do you? Even in this thread, someone tried to claim HA was 6 CP while thumper and sniper were "3 cert banes".

You are correct. Poor editing on my part, I added the thumper and sniper to my list as afterthoughts forgetting to add "*" note that they have the MA pre-req too.

I'm just sick of getting killed by some guy in a reaver, respawning, then killing him with my MCG when he gets out and tries to hack my tower/base. Then I get a tell calling me a "HA Pussy". Whatever, I suppose killing infantry in a reaver is somehow more "manly" than a MCG vs. Sweeper match-up? Laff...

Moral of the story: You need the right certs and right gear to match the situation you are in. If you don't have HA, SA, or a MAX then don't assault/defend the CC room. Going in there with less and complaining is as goofy as if I went there in standard armor with a suppressor and whined about Agile/MA being overpowered. "I'm outgunned" - No shiznit goofball, cert and gear up correctly for the tasks you want perform or get owned... That is what PS is all about�

Now if only 1 empire had HA or only 1 had MAX units, then I could understand the argument.... but, that's not the case at all.

[TheN00b]

Great post Ash :)

[Gigabein]

I'm just sick of getting killed by some guy in a reaver, respawning, then killing him with my MCG when he gets out and tries to hack my tower/base. Then I get a tell calling me a "HA Pussy". Whatever, I suppose killing infantry in a reaver is somehow more "manly" than a MCG vs. Sweeper match-up? Laff...

Moral of the story: You need the right certs and right gear to match the situation you are in. If you don't have HA, SA, or a MAX then don't assault/defend the CC room. Going in there with less and complaining is as goofy as if I went there in standard armor with a suppressor and whined about Agile/MA being overpowered. "I'm outgunned" - No shiznit goofball, cert and gear up correctly for the tasks you want perform or get owned... That is what PS is all about�


To be fair, if you don't have AV, AA Max, or an AA vehicle don't complain about getting killed by reavers. Every cert can be trumped by something else. I say leave HA alone for now and fix surge.

[DeadTeddy]

what's wrong with surge? only thing I can think of is the warping. warping comes from lag and not even the devs can fix that, it's part of a bigger problem called "The internet". infinite surge is a problem, like all forms of cheating, but normal surge is fine, yeah it gets you a few kills but it burns you out fast to. it's "get 5 kills, respawn, and run back" unless you're really good.

as for HA, leave it alone, I don't see you all crying about tanks owning buggies.

[Gigabein]

what's wrong with surge? only thing I can think of is the warping. warping comes from lag and not even the devs can fix that, it's part of a bigger problem called "The internet". infinite surge is a problem, like all forms of cheating, but normal surge is fine, yeah it gets you a few kills but it burns you out fast to. it's "get 5 kills, respawn, and run back" unless you're really good.

as for HA, leave it alone, I don't see you all crying about tanks owning buggies.

So you think surge is fine, you're defensive of HA, and you're NC. I have a sneaking suspicion, that you're a card-carrying member of the HA surgile special interest group.

[Rayder]

Surge is fine. I only use HA to get my hands on a JH (Lasher isn't the greatest for Agile+Surge), otherwise its the Sweeper for me, and I own those little JH guys cuz they think their invincible (although their damn backpacks always seem to deconstruct before I can get in them).

[Spee]

So you think surge is fine, you're defensive of HA, and you're NC. I have a sneaking suspicion, that you're a card-carrying member of the HA surgile special interest group.



I use surge/lasher/Agile only when I'm outside and need to close some distance on the enemy. I lag so hard that if I try to circle strafe them with surge on, I'll lock up and be pwnd.



Other than that, I use it for transportation.

[noxious]

So you think surge is fine, you're defensive of HA, and you're NC. I have a sneaking suspicion, that you're a card-carrying member of the HA surgile special interest group.


If he took the time to learn how to do it effectively, good for him. There are very few people who can use surge+agile and have any more chance against me than they would have with out it. The irony of course, I use a lasher, which should make it damn near impossible, but it's not. I practiced, and practiced, and lo and behold, I got better. What an odd concept huh? Infinite surge and warping surge users I have never come across (I suppose the former is quite difficult to spot however).

In the end, jackhammer users realized they were getting owned because they couldn't close ground fast enough to get within optimal range. They discovered a solution, and used it. I don't even use surge in combat and I fully support it in its current form. As long as there are tactics that work there will be people to whine for their abolishment.