The Cloaker�s Bane

[BadAsh]

After playing an Infiltrator with my NC character for some weeks now, I�ve decided to retire my suit for the standard Surge + Jackhammer + Agile / Surge + Jackhammer + Rexo + Decimator. My reasons are that currently the Infiltration Suit is just too bugged. I get detected when I should not and this accounts for about 1/3 of my total deaths in the game when cloaked. It�s simply just too frustrating to do everything right (i.e. crouch walk with silent run on) and get gunned down by someone who should not know you are there.

Here are the bugs/exploits that I�ve confirmed:

1. A player can have dark light turned on and NOT have the icon to the right side of his head nor will it emit the tell tale dark light sound. I believe this to be a bug. It happens rarely, but it does happen. This gets you killed because you don�t know you should be running.

2. The Lattice Link bug is still in full effect. For those not familiar with it it�s a bug where full lattice link base benefits extend to areas of the map beyond the SOI of any linked base. Further, it is sometimes possible to have this benefit with no lattice link base. This means you can crouch walk with silent run turned on and every tiny movement you make lights your position up on any enemies mini-map radar. You�d be just as effective at being stealthy running at full speed in a Rexo. To make this even nastier you don�t get the usual �radar� symbol on your HUD alerting you that you�ve been detected.

3. The cloaker �glow� upon respawn bug is still in full swing. Rarely, when someone first respawns the bug will light up cloakers temporarily giving your position away. This is particularly nasty with a deployed AMS. Passing through the AMS cloaking bubble sometimes triggers a similar bug. I�m not sure if these are related, but they may be so I�ll pair them together for now.

4. Not sure if this is a bug or a �feature� but snipers when zoomed in have the ability to sometimes see crouch walking cloakers at extreme long range. Now while I�ve never been sniped this way, I have seen this with my sniper rifle. I see the guy across the map and I�m thinking �there is no way I should see this guy�. If you track him long enough he will eventually �vanish�. So if this is functionality it�s not consistent.

5. Design flaw (IMHO): With one of the later patches lattice link benefits were beefed up to include the following ability: lattice link base + SOI + Motion Sensor = you are detected even when crouch walking with silent run on. This is murder when spitfire turrets are added. They will track you with any movement.

6. Confirmed exploit: There is a particular video card that if you have a specific older version of the manufacturers drivers installed you can tweak your gamma settings to make cloakers show up clear as day. A friend of mine was able to demo this at his house so I�ve SEEN it work. You have 24/7 dark light benefits, but with out having dark light and without the dark light limited range. I think this one is here to stay. These drivers were faulty from the manufacturer and were pulled from official download sites when this problem was corrected in a newer version. But, anyone who already has the drivers can use them at will. Fortunately there are only about a total of 6 or so guys on Markov that I suspect of having this benefit.

The above 6 problems with cloaking have been in effect for weeks and weeks with no fix in sight. So I figure, if my enemy is going to see me anyway, they might as well see me killing them. Hence, my decision to re-cert to Rexo/HA/SA and switch out silent run with the dreaded surge.

[Rayder]

1. When I was a cloaker I never saw the little darklight sign on enemies, only friendlies. But now I do, so I guess it was stealthed but not completely fixed.

2. Not sure about this one, I've always been able to crouch-walk and not get detected. Likewise, I have to look for cloakers to spot em unless they are running.

3. Never seen this.

4. Havn't used the BD in a while. But I can tell you it's easy to spot cloakers, you just go to know what to look for.

5. Grab a jammer, and throw it at the sensors/turrets, then as fast as you can throw another one away from you.

6. Nothing you can do.

[Vick]

If you were any good you wouldnt of dropped it for jh surgile.

I play pure infil on Emerald, and I do just fine. Sure the bugs need to be fixed, but how many posts do we need about this? There is always one up at the OF, if not, go start one.

[Searo]

The white outline contrasts very sharply with surrounding terrain in a scope. Normally, you see mostly through the cloaker at ground level. When you're looking down at one from far away, you see the movement and white lines very clearly. It's not a bug as much as a contrast issue.

[Veteran]

"If you were any good..."

Whatever. Cloakers actually earn their kills with patience and skill, in sharp contrast to Surgile HA users that rely on warping.

The bugs are to blame, not the individuals.

[Rayder]

If you were any good you wouldnt of dropped it for jh surgile.

I play pure infil on Emerald, and I do just fine. Sure the bugs need to be fixed, but how many posts do we need about this? There is always one up at the OF, if not, go start one.
Quickly! Call the elves! The trolls are loose!

[MuNsTeR]

yeah... im almost thinking htey should get rid of darklight cause tahts kinda not giving the cloaker an advantage even though i do use darklight

[Rayder]

yeah... im almost thinking htey should get rid of darklight cause tahts kinda not giving the cloaker an advantage even though i do use darklight
But then how would people know where cloakers are? You can't look at your radar, because then you couldn't look at your screen.

[Cyanide]

You forgot about the bug that makes your weapon is totally visible when you first unholster it.

Anyway, the long range visibility problem has always been they're. It's because they're trying to do it the hard way using a texture for the transparency when they should just totally remove the player model beyond close range. It's not just the sniper rifle zoom either. I fly a reaver and often use the range magnifier implant - for identifying enemies beyond normal range - which has the same effect. I can spot AMSes a mile away and the cross hair will even turn red when I pass it over an AMS, even if I can't see its cloak bubble.

[Otherick]

nerf the bugs

[Madcow]

The DL icon not showing up happens rarely to you because NC seems to be the lion's share of problems with that one. I rarely have it happen with VS or TR, but it happens all the time with NC. I'll be shocked the day they truly address any of these bugs.

[Firefly]

I've been playing an infiltrator for months, and I get plenty kills with it and get inside places all the time. I haven't experienced any of this, and each time I die if it isn't an accident or backblast splash damage that I was dumb enough to be caught in, it's a simple learning experience that says "I probably shouldn't have done that."

So yeah, no comment. Enjoy your Jackspammer/warp-surge.

[STEALTHKILLER]

This is why most stealthers have max suits.

[Vick]

"If you were any good..."

Whatever. Cloakers actually earn their kills with patience and skill, in sharp contrast to Surgile HA users that rely on warping.
I dont get your reply, you say whatever then you repeat exactly what I meant in my post. :confused:

I've been playing an infiltrator for months, and I get plenty kills with it and get inside places all the time. I haven't experienced any of this, and each time I die if it isn't an accident or backblast splash damage that I was dumb enough to be caught in, it's a simple learning experience that says "I probably shouldn't have done that."

So yeah, no comment. Enjoy your Jackspammer/warp-surge.
Exactly.

[BadAsh]

I've been playing an infiltrator for months, and I get plenty kills with it and get inside places all the time. I haven't experienced any of this, and each time I die if it isn't an accident or backblast splash damage that I was dumb enough to be caught in, it's a simple learning experience that says "I probably shouldn't have done that."

So yeah, no comment. Enjoy your Jackspammer/warp-surge.

No insult intended here, but most of that I mentioned there is common knowledge and even acknowledged by SOE (i.e. the lattice link bug and the respawn cloaker's "glow"). Additionally, any sniper will tell you that seeing infiltrators in the distance is not difficult at all... But, this obliviousness to the obvious is typical of a public forum. When I originally posted about �surge-o-porting� I actually got flamed and accused of making excuses such as this �non-existent warping� which is �typical of players that are below the bell curve�. So imagine my surprise when I bring up a list of known bugs there is someone who knows nothing of them and suggests that I just don�t know how to play a cloaker�

A brief opinion about online games and glitches:

It�s been my experience that long term bugs and glitches just become part of how the game is played despite what the developers and community want. When I played Quake III Arena there were 2 persistent, widely exploited, bugs that just became part of how the game was played. Someone figured out that if you run, jump, and strafe to either side at the same time you got a turbo jump that actually increased your speed. With some practice �strafe jumping� as it came to be known could increase your movement speed by about 30%. This was never fixed and eventually everyone began doing this to remain competitive.

Someone then figured out that if in your configuration file you set the FPS value to 43 you could actually jump higher for some reason. Setting your FPS limit to 42 or less or 44 or more did not work. 43 was the magic number. Now with increased jumping height you could strafe jump just a little faster. Also on a few key maps you could actually hop up to low ledges and take short cuts. The map layout was such that you had to maneuver to stairs to get to the ledge leading to an exit. Now with your new FPS tweak you can just strafe jump up and through the door in one fluid motion. This was never fixed and eventually everyone began doing this to remain competitive.

The rules of the game are defined by the programmers and enforced by player capabilities. If you are not capable of doing something then you simply can�t and it�s not part of the game. If you can do something, then guess what? It�s part of the game. Deal with it. For me it�s a choice or either continuing to get owned by agile surgers while waiting for SOE to fix the problem (yeah right!). Or I can fight back. I chose to fight back. And please spare me the litany of the �morally righteous�. I�ve done everything a playing customer can. I�ve posted in various forums including the OF to bring more customer base awareness of the problem. I�ve even sent in notification to SOE directly about the issue. But, until this is resolved, guess what? It�s how combat is done PS style.

[1024]

There is no doubt about it, cloakers are at a serious disadvantage with all these bugs. It's not really fair that they can't play to their full potential due to some screw ups that SOE seems to be ignoring. SOE needs to get on the ball.

[BlackHawk]

I've definitely had some strange things happen as an infiltrator. I can't tell you how many times I've made it into an enemy base or tower then stopped moving completely to let several (5-10) enemies pass me by, only to have one run around a corner, stop, and blast me. The way I figure it, it can only be Ash's number 1 or number 6... If I knew it was number 1 and not number 6, it probably wouldn't bother me, as its just a simple bug, and not an exploit.

[Madcow]

I've been playing an infiltrator for months, and I get plenty kills with it and get inside places all the time. I haven't experienced any of this, and each time I die if it isn't an accident or backblast splash damage that I was dumb enough to be caught in, it's a simple learning experience that says "I probably shouldn't have done that."

So yeah, no comment. Enjoy your Jackspammer/warp-surge.

I get plenty of kills and get inside plenty of places as well. I've also experienced every one of these many times. I'm not sure if the fact that you haven't noticed any of this is something to be all that proud of, it's all been talked about and noticed since release. Let me give you a simple example, a true example that wasn't an accident, wasn't backblast splash, and I had no way to take as a learning experience.

The TR have a tower we want. I notice they have interlink benefits and the tower is surrounded by spits, too many to try jammering and getting in. I spend quite a while outside the range of the spits taking people out who are wandering too far from the tower. Eventually the interlink benefit is cut, so now's my chance. I crouch walk a long freaking way through the spits, get to the door, set off the mine and begin hacking the door. Door opens, guy wastes me with no DL on. Bad luck I think, he heard the REK going and/or heard the mine go off and shot at the logical place. I spawn at the nearest AMS and make my way back. Nobody has replaced the mine, so I don't have to blow it again. I wait for somebody to run out of the tower and I crouch walk in, so I don't have to use my REK. I crouch walk up the stairs. As I am reaching the first landing the same guy comes flying down with his MCG, turns the corner and wastes me. No DL on, no hesitation, I'm dead. I'm confused so I send him a tell asking him if I'm showing up on his HUD for some reason (I was crouch walking for ages to audio amp is totally ruled out). He tells me I was, because they have Interlink. Except they don't. They haven't for at least 20 minutes. Please let me know what my learning experience was, other than learning that SOE is allowing bugs to persist?

[Vick]

Madcow, they probably had a motion sensor. As far as I can tell the interlink bugs are fixed.

Some of those bugs are real, most really, but this is like the 3rd post about it this month. Adding in the "I quit!" mentality doesnt help.

[1024]

motion sensors don't work if you're crouch walking.

[WritheNC]

I am one paranoid mofo. If I see a red dot on the radar in an NC base, and it disappears, I will look for you.

If I die or a few people die from boomers in the spawn room(*cough* Dogtag of VS *cough*) I will camp the spawn room to shit and kill any cloaker who doesn't have green over his head.

Basically, I've been killed by infils so much, if the same infil kills me 3 times in one night, he is very very fortunate.

But overall I agree. It is hard to play an infil most of the time. I did enjoy the success I had as an infil though. Sure, I didn't rack up kills like when I had HA(which I recert once a week for fun), but each kill was more satisfying.

[Rayder]

motion sensors don't work if you're crouch walking.
Yeah they do, motion sensors pick up all movement.


There is no doubt about it, cloakers are at a serious disadvantage with all these bugs. It's not really fair that they can't play to their full potential due to some screw ups that SOE seems to be ignoring. SOE needs to get on the ball.

SOE has more important things to work on than a few bugs. I for one, would rather have something that's been causing crashes fixed, instead of a few play bugs. Think about it this way, the more big bugs they fix, the more time they get to play around with the smaller ones.

[Mudflap]

Motion sensors do not pick up all movement. I'm nuts about watching my radar for cloakers, and I've been in towers with five motion sensors as tightly packed as they can be, and still seen the tower get hacked without a blip on the radar. So if they are supposed to pick up ALL movement, then they are bugged too.

The problem with crouch walking is that you become visible. I can see a cloaker that's moving, no matter how slow. It's hard to figure out exactly where his body is, and he can be hard to see, but he is definitely visible. And if he's in a tower, where there are no confusing textures to hide in, he's dead if he moves.

There are bugs, but I kinda like how gameplay works now. Infs are still good, especially for boomering spawn tubes and such. I get killed by one quite a bit, although not as often as I kill them. They're not meant for assault, only stealth, and they certainly are more stealthy than a guy in Rexo.

[Rayder]

Don't know what you guys are doing, but I can see all cloaked enemies (their names silly) that move, wether crouching or not, with a motion sensor.

[Madcow]

Don't know what you guys are doing, but I can see all cloaked enemies (their names silly) that move, wether crouching or not, with a motion sensor.

That's only if you have the interlink benefit and a nearby motion sensor, or if there is a mosquito hovering overhead (they detect all movement including crouch walking). Motion sensors on their own are not set off by crouch walking (or just plain walking), and it's not exclusive to the infil suit. Anybody can crouch walk past a motion sensor and not show up on the HUD.

[Madcow]

Madcow, they probably had a motion sensor. As far as I can tell the interlink bugs are fixed.

Some of those bugs are real, most really, but this is like the 3rd post about it this month. Adding in the "I quit!" mentality doesnt help.

As 1024 mentioned, I was crouch walking (for a LOOOONG time) so it wasn't the motion sensor. The interlink bugs definitely aren't fixed as that was on the list of things the devs are currently working on, and we haven't had a patch since the list of things they were working on has come out.

[SandTrout]

Motion sensor: Picks up anyone in range that is moveing faster than walking speed. This is the way it was designed, and is not a bug. Same applies to Audio-amp with the exception that silent run compleatly nulifies Audio-amp.

Motion sensor+ ILF= Motion sensor picks up all enemies in range even if they are standing still, no ifs, ands, or buts.

SOE has ignored the infiltrator bugs for a long time, and I expect that this will not change, ever. Call me a pecimist if you like, but it SOE design team seams to hate infils. Maybe Smokejumper only plays an infil to find out ways to nerf them.

[Rayder]

Must be a bug then, cuz when I'm on a locked cont with motion sensors in the towers, I've seen the guys' names as they crouch-walked by.

[Firefly]

When you're on a locked continent, the lattice link base benefits extend to all linked bases, remember?

[Rayder]

Should have specified that it wasn't our cont.

[Madcow]

And you're certain of no friendly mosquitos in the area? Those things can screw up a good hack in a hurry.