Balance

[Peacemaker]

Welp. Ive got PS now. Ive faced off against the VS and the NC and TR. I became a TR and started squading with CDL. Quite a few good fights but I soon discovered that contrary to what is here on the PSU forums the TR are quite mismatched against the VS in partiuclar. I also have a few other beefs with the game.

1. Vanu maxes have way too much power. They can drop any other max in the game in a few seconds wether AI or AV. Plus they have lock on and plas burning. Its rediclous how fast they can take down a liberator. And you cant make a run on them because they just jump over you.

2. NC AI max needs a buff, short ranged slow reload.

3. Prowler either needs a buff to compete with the Vanguard and Magrider or the other way around. The mag in particular is what I think needs to be nerfed a little. Two cannons, one used by the driver. Both are way over powered. Give it some travel time and drop. And for the love of god Decrease its RoF it fires just as fast as the high ROF Prowler. The van I dont have as much trouble with. In fact its pretty good. Today we ran into a Mag from behind as it shot at a tower. I unloaded 10 cannon shells in it when I first saw it. It was suprised but it just turned around and used both guns to shoot us apart. Decrease ROF and make it need 2 gunners. Also drop that forward cannons angle it can shoot, I find my self getting shot down by mags way too often. Its a tank not an AA gun.

4. The reaver. The rever can no longer take down a MAX of any sort with one clip. If you can catch one off guard all power to you. You should be able to waste him.

[Hamma]

popcorn:

[Professor Frink]

You hit a Mag with 10 shells & it didn't die? I find that hard to believe. All three tanks have their ups & downs. Vans have raw firepower & a low profile. Mags have range & manuverability. Prowlers take a lickin & keep on tickin. They also have a huge gun with a high ROF.
I agree with you on the maxes though. Everyone has certain advantages & maxes are ours.

[Cyanide]

You are smoking something. The NC maxes are fine. Their AA max is the best in the game by far. Their AV max is pretty damn good too. Their AI max sucks outdoors but inside it's rediculously good at crowd control. The Magrider is fine too. It's harder to drive well than the other tanks and it has 2 guns and 2 gunners. The main gun can shoot up so high because the other tanks have machine guns that can shoot down aircraft. If you're getting shot down by mag riders then you obviously aren't moving around enough.

VS has the worst maxes indoors. They are good outside because of their manueverability, but inside they don't pack as much power as the other maxes.

The prowler is fine, it's got independantly firing guns and a seperate driver. That makes it very powerful if you have a smart crew that focuses fire. The problem with it is that sometimes people are too damn stupid to wait for 2 gunners to get in and they cut its power in half. It shouldn't be buffed because the people using it don't know how to use it to its full potential.

Also, you don't need to take out a max in 1 clip if they're AV or AI, you can last long enough for 2 clips. Air vehicles should not be able to easily destroy any AA weapon.

I think you just went around got owned a few times. None of those things you suggested are valid points IMO.

[Madcow]

1. If the Vanu AI MAX is taking down another MAX, it must have gotten a lucky matchup against an AA MAX. Pretty much any of the other MAXs should make short work of it. Even in armor piercing bolt mode the Quasar really doesn't do all that much damage. It is madly effective against soft targets, however. I will agree about the Starfire being crazy, I shot down 40 Reavers in part time duty with it the other night. Good reaver pilots seem to be able to fly in and out of the tracking range with little difficulty, however.

2. Errr, no. There's a reason the ScatterMAX is so popular. In close quarters (see bases, towers) it's a freaking meat grinder. It's the Jackhammer on steroids, chewing through soft targets as well as doing nice damage to other MAXs.

3. I think the tanks are pretty balanced, but I do think the Prowler is the worst of the 3 (as it always has been). There's no way you unloaded 10 shells into a Mag and still got blown up by it, though. You should try driving a Magrider and see exactly how difficult it is to command that vehicle and use the driver's gun some time. If somebody was that good at it, more power to them.

4. The only time a single clip might not work is if the MAX is Vanu and saw you coming and jumped out of the way. Blowing up MAXs is done all the time, the rocket pods are no less effective than they ever were.

[xmodum]

4. The reaver. The rever can no longer take down a MAX of any sort with one clip. If you can catch one off guard all power to you. You should be able to waste him.
not true, yesterday i was playin and i was in my reaver, i took down a AT Man with not even a clip,bout 13 shot , but maybe im just lucky and u suck at shootin :p

[GreyFlcn]

Funny how whenever I see Orisha generator destroyed, it's always some ScattterMAX thats done it.
And needed less than half their ammo supply. 12 Boomers needed to kill a generator.

VS AI max has issues destroying 2 spawn tubes.

[sPooT]

popcorn:
:cheers:

[TheN00b]

Beef Rebuttal Form

1. Vs MAXes may be good outdoors, but indoors, they really aren't too great. Here's a breakdown of each VS MAX, with strengths and weaknesses:

Quasar MAX
The Quasar is amazing at what it is meant to do: slaughtering infantry by the pound. Outdoors, it eats them up and leaves only a few scraps behind. However, inside combat is a different story. Good players will fire of a Deci to make them use their jets, then blow them away once they come back to earth with another rocket. Still, they will have a good shot at taking out a large number of enemies before they die. Against MAXes, they are only really useful if they get the jump on the enemy: Face-to-face, they are possibly the weakest MAX in the game.
Overall rating for the Quasar: 7.5/10

Comet MAX
The Comet is probably the strongest of the Vanu MAXes. Outdoors, it performs well against vehicles. While a one-on-one matchup against a tank or buggy will doom the Comet, a small group of them (3 or more) should be able to either kill a buggy or severely wound a tank. They are also useful for widespread suppression fire against infantry in courtyard battles. Against MAXes in the open, they are absolutely 1337: Get in close, launch about 4 shots, then jump away. For reference, 4 shots from a Comet is about halfway to a kill on an opposing MAX. Indoors, like the other non-AI VS MAX, they have the potential to do fairly well against infantry. If the Comet manages to get of atleast 10-15 shots, they can manage to get a couple of kills from
simple saturation of the space around them with plasma. Against MAXes, the indoor environment makes Comets a bit weaker than they are outdoors, but the slight decrease in a need for accuracy helps make it up.
Overall rating for the Comet: 9.0

Starfire MAX
Obviously, the outdoors are the preferred domain of this MAX. However, I would not be very comfortable using this MAX, even there. While its missiles are quite powerful for the clip size and ROF, it is simply too easy to slip the lock and invalidate the 20 missile flight formerly headed your way. When I've been targetted by Starfires in the past, the only time I worry is if I'm in a Galaxy or a Lodestar, and becuase neither of those craft revolve around staying in them for very long, I think that the Starfire is simply inneficient. Against MAXes and infantry and MAXes in the outdoors, it is fairly useless. It's aggravated damage is lesser than the Comet's, and both the accuracy and the speed of the projectiles it fires leave something to be desired. Indoors, it is much the same. Although the can use the area saturation technique, the orbs are simply too easy to dodge to be effective.
Overall Rating for the Starfire: 6.5

Overall Rating for all VS MAXes: 7.7

Do they look so amazing now. They're certainly not bad, but I for one believe that by no means they utterly own. Personally, I think (shudders think about the flames that I will receive) that TR MAXes are the best :scared: . But that's just me :scared: :scared: .

2. ScatMAXes are good at one thing, and one thing only: crowd control. At close range, against a bunch of enemies, they are teh goods. That is their purpose, their one purpose, and their only purpose.

*Note: However, I do think that the secondary fire should be buffed, as it is rather useless as of now.

3. Please, please, PLEASE never call the Magrider overpowered. LOL. While the Mag may be amazing against infantry, it does not fulfill the purpose of a tank: To totally, utterly, remorselessly own vehicles. A weak railgun and mediocre chain-gun do not accomplish that. If a Mag has ever beaten you while you were in a Van or Prowler, you must be, no offense, something of a n00b (which you probably are, given that you just got the game). The Van's godly main gun and the Prowler's fairly good dual cannons should be easily sufficient to kill a Mag in most circumstances.

4. The Reaver is by no means halted by MAXes. During all the battles I have been in (I've played since September), I have almost never seen a Reaver taken down by a MAX, and if it was taken down, it was by several MAXes in concert. Reaver spamming a slow-moving object=Dead object. 'Nuff said.

[Indecisive]

We just did the balance patch. Quiet you.

[Rbstr]

Yeah i think the reaver needs a bit of a damage buff, or do the customiztion thing i posted a while ago. Alos tthe only realy unballenced things are the MA weps Pulsar and guass in particular, and AV not doing enough to scrach a tank

[Peacemaker]

Thanks for the comments. The only part of the NC AI MAX I was talking about was long range. Both it and the TR AI cant do crap to infantry at long range. Yet I have been sniped from beyond cycler range by Vanu AI max. I have taken down reavers by my self before ask my squadies, they have gotten the drop on me before and I can waste them. And if you think that the mag is not over powered try driving a single fully maned Prowler vs one. It will eat the prowler for lunch 9 out of 10 times and then go after another one a few moments later and still win. MY comment on the behind a mag attack. I did fire 10 rounds. 8 or 9 of them direct hits. And then I emptied the rest of the clip at it. Maybe I didnt notice an infantry with decis but he seemed to take us out very quick. The other thing I see with it is the shell is nearly instant and has no drop that I can see plus the drivers cannon fires way too quick and can elevate too high. If its an AI weapon dont let it take out a reaver in 5 seconds.

[Vick]

Prowler is the besat tank in my opinion, I would take it over mag or vanguard anyday.

All the MAXs are fine except for the anti-everything TR and VS AA MAXs, those are lame.

[gonnagetyou]

I can't believe so many people still think the Starfire is crap. I hear by challenge any pilot in the game to take me on in my Starfire. I will eat you for lunch. I can single handily nullify any enemy airpower in a battle I participate in. :lol:

OK, enough bragging. The Starfire is good though. I've used every MAX in the game heavily and by far the Starfire is the best AA MAX you can get. TR and NC can't jump out of the way of a Reaver barrage. A Starfire can kill one reaver half way into a jump, reload and bring down a second one before you hit the ground.

[TheN00b]

LMAO, what kind of Reaver pilot can't dodge Starfire missiles? Reavers go faster than them for Christ's sake. :rolleyes:

[Rbstr]

do not, thats about the only thing that takes me down, starfires, somtimes bursters mags and sg's but far more SF's

[Vick]

LMAO, what kind of Reaver pilot can't dodge Starfire missiles? Reavers go faster than them for Christ's sake. :rolleyes:


Have you tried?

[TheN00b]

Yep, why? Ah course, I'm a grunt now, but bakc in the ol' pilot days :) ... Those were good times.

[Professor Frink]

They can outrun them easily with thrusters. But in a huge battle the pilot might be running low on juice. Then they are easily picked off. Plus if he/she is dumb enough to take a pass head-on they will get a plasma sandwich. Starfires prey on the weak/stupid more effectively that other AA.

[Black]

You hit a Mag with 10 shells & it didn't die? I find that hard to believe. All three tanks have their ups & downs. Vans have raw firepower & a low profile. Mags have range & manuverability.

I was the driver of that tank when peace and some other dude was gunning he put in at least 10-12 shots in the asshole of the mag and all it did was use its strafe got behind us and then i said "we are toast"

[Rayder]

Yeah i think the reaver needs a bit of a damage buff, or do the customiztion thing i posted a while ago. Alos tthe only realy unballenced things are the MA weps Pulsar and guass in particular, and AV not doing enough to scrach a tank
The hell did you come from? Reaver is fine, although the spash radius on the rockets needs to be nerfed, bigtime. They're AV, not AI.

[TheN00b]

Frink, I prefer killing the skilled over killing the retards. The Burster and especially the Sparrow are good against non-n00b players.

[Professor Frink]

I was the driver of that tank when peace and some other dude was gunning he put in at least 10-12 shots in the asshole of the mag and all it did was use its strafe got behind us and then i said "we are toast"

Fair enough I believe you. I've heard stories of hackers running around with "invincible tanks". That was probably one of 'em.

[Professor Frink]

Since when is killing retards bad? They gotta learn somehow.

(oops double post)

[TheN00b]

True, but getting skilled players is far more satisfying.

[scarpas]

:cheers:
:nod:

[Vick]

I dunno what starfires your flying against, but I often have trouble getting away from them with mosquito afterburners.

[flypengy]

4. The reaver. The rever can no longer take down a MAX of any sort with one clip. If you can catch one off guard all power to you. You should be able to waste him.

I believe it is around 12 rockets to kill a max (or 14) regardless you can kill a max in one clip, quite easily too.

[Indecisive]

Reaver? Damage buff? :roffleban:

If anything, that bitch needs a nerf. But im not the one who started a balance thread. Everything is fine.

Except for cloakers. They are gimped agaisnt anything, expecially vanu. Their pistol still sucks compared to the rest, and AV weapons prawn them faster then AI.

Reaver it takes like 2 rockets to kill one :/

[Ait'al]

VS are supposed to have high rate of fire because there energy based. And the Tr a little faster because of there use of automatic weapons and such! 8\

[Peacemaker]

Since when does energy = High ROF? The supposed inbetweeness of the Vanu (acctualy they are more on the scale of damage towards the NC and in ROF to the TR in my opinion) coupled with the dual fire modes makes them leathal. The starfire MAX is insane to dodge and is on PAR with the AA MAX for NC. But back on the mag. If I was the Devs the mininum I would do would be to drop the damage and ROF on that god damn pilots gun. Max would be do that and make the Main gun drop (no more snipin infantry with it damn it!) and slow down. Damage on main gun is good, one shot kill on infantry as far as I know. I have never driven the vanguard but I have faced them and from what I have seen prefer facing 2 of them in a base to one mag in a base. Someone said it well a few days ago on TS2, "Id rather face off against a squad of Jach Hammers than face one Magrider." Im gonna do some testing to figure it all out.

[GreyFlcn]

Takes 12 Prowler shots to kill a MagRider

Takes 18 MagRider shots to kill a Prowler

They both shoot at the same speed.

Give or take some for AMP shielding.

[Ait'al]

Read the damn webpage peace! do some damn research on hte damn game and what created it! 8\ Energy based weapons dont have to reload ammo per round like all other weapons so they can sustain a decent rate of fire. So unless they ahve a slow time to put in a new clip they are fast. Thats what the point was when SOE made the game so get a clue. 8) That means overall for all weapons, not compared to the fastest weapons in the game. IE on average. or that was the design. which would mean exluding the TR cause thats ther whole point!

[GreyFlcn]

Also takes 3 shots to kill Infantry with the main gun.

It strafes sideways at 19kph. ReXo walks at 21Kph

And it takes 6 seconds to do a full turn
Takes 4 seconds to do a full turn with Vanguard

Strafing helps that, but it's still a weakness.

Also breaking speed it takes 4 seconds to come to complete halt.

Bumpy terrain, Vanguard main gun has the aiming advantage.


Also it takes 20 MagRider shots to kill a Vanguard in 19 seconds
Takes 8 Vanguard shots to kill a MagRider in 14 seconds

[Chaaos]

NC AA MAX is fine... except its targeting seriously needs to be fixed, I'm sick of getting killed because i loose lock then get pummled with reaver missles.

[noxious]

I'd love to see the time to kill when a magrider's secondary cannon is used...

[I Hate Pants]

I'd love to see the time to kill when a magrider's secondary cannon is used...

Ill gladly stand infront of a Vanguard as its own personal target if its willing to use its secondary machine gun.