60mm mortar

[Ed the MAD]

60mm mortar:
-it takes up a rifle slot.
-once it is unholstered it is deployed with G. once deployed the opperator is rendered immobile.
-has a 360 degree traverse, a 25 degree minimum elivation, and an 89 degree maximum elevation.
-the ammo boxes are the same size as the Phonix' and hold 10 shells each.
-three ammo types, High Explosive Fragmentation(twice as powerful as the Thumper's Frag grenades), Plasma(same as the plasma grenade, only with a slightly larger blast radius), and High Explosive Anti Tank(HEAT, twice as powerful as a rocklet).
-common pool
-requires heavy assault, and Reinforced Exo as a prerequisite.
-has a minimum range of 100 meters, and a maximum range of 1,000 meters.

it's like a Flail, accept it's not nearly as powerful, not nearly ar far reaching, not nearly as well armoured, and doesn't require a vehicle module to procure.

[Rayder]

Make tanks a 1 vehicle cert, and put this at the Flail together as an Artillery cert.

Are you in love with the Phoenix? You make some sort of reference to it in all of your posts almost. Kinda creepy.

Other than those, we don't want this to become a game of shell-reload-shell-reload-shell, have a zerg go in wipe out the inside, hack.

[Ed the MAD]

i hate the Zerg with every fiber of my being.
i have never once used the Phonix in the game.
my current certs are ScatterMAX, Air Support, Ground Transport, Hacking, Adv. Hacking, and Infiltrator suit.

you know, you remind me of another guy who picks at ideas. his name's Oswald, you two might get along. all i'm saying is you seem to really like to pick at knits.

[Firefly]

Make it a two-rifle slot (mortars have large base plates), and drop the minimum range to fifty meters. Allow for the zoom to have a rangefinder, and your mouse movements adjust the barrel angle accordingly.

[Zatrais]

I'm con to this idea. More area spammage, no thanks.

[Rayder]

Hey, you post an idea for a new weapon, expect it to get ripped apart.

[Firefly]

This isn't like an uber-death weapon, it doesn't do area spammage. Every infantry unit has mortars, from infantry training units all the way up to Ranger battalions.

The mortar is a short-range anti-personnel indirect fire weapon. Unlike the artillery, whose job is to take out mass areas at long ranges, and can damage or destroy most any vehicle, the mortar is a "personal" indirect fire weapon.

You have to be close to the enemy. You have to either have a forward observer or you have to know roughly where he is. Many times, infantrymen can tell where the mortar rounds are coming from. Mortar shells do close-area damage, and there have been numerous soldiers who have survived mortar attacks. 60mm mortars are among the 'weakest' of those weapons- in terms of mortar firepower, anyway. A 60mm mortar is not even as powerful as a Sunderer/Lightning gun.

[Rayder]

But then lightnings can't arc their shots so that they go over walls and fall 5m behind them.

[Firefly]

The Lightning can arc its fire over a wall if he knows what he's doing. Factors include an observer to call adjustments, distance from tube to target, vehicle emplacement, arc of fire (angle), etc. Obviously if you're a dildo and you park right outside the wall like most of the n00bs who spam a tower, then you're not going to make that shot, not even firing at the highest arc.

I see the Lightning as a heavy scout vehicle, a light tank that works well with heavy armor as support, and as a mobile mortar (which ironically is what most mortar teams today are... a tube mounted in the troop bay of an APC, sticking out of the top "sunroof" hatch). But a man-portable mortar system would be great for those light-infantry assaults.

To keep it from being a spam weapon, the blast radius would be relatively small, or at least progressively lower from epicenter to end-radius. It should occupy two rifle slots in the armor (like MechCommander Two weapons). It should be at least four cert points, or lumped in with heavy assault. And reinforced armor would obviously be a prerequisite if you have to fill two rifle slots. Ammo cases should also be relatively large, so you can't cram a million rounds into armor, but each ammo crate should contain at least ten rounds. The weapon should be a single-shot, "bolt-action" style weapon with a long reload time (time to clear the tube, remove a mortar cartridge, pick up a new one, adjust fire, and drop a new round in). You can even include a "heat dissipation" cycle, also like Mechwarrior, where the weapon has to cool down after x-amount of rounds. Otherwise dropping a round into an overheated weapon could result in an ammo cook-off, which for big-bore weapons is not pretty.

I'm fairly sure that these 'adjustments' would keep the weapon from being an "uber-|33t" weapon. A mortar is not just another infantry weapon. It's designed to support infantry forces, and it's designed to be a heavy-hitter (versus standard infantry weapons). People complain about not having enough weapons, or too much air or too much armor, blah-blah/yada-yada. Well here you go. Here's a valid, logical weapon.

PS: please stop saying "clips", people. It's called MAGAZINE. A clip is a freaking piece of wire that holds money and papers in place. Only retarded wanna-be ghetto-gangstas say "clip", and I highly doubt anyone here is an OG Thug.

[Destroyeron]

But then lightnings can't arc their shots so that they go over walls and fall 5m behind them.

I have :P

I like the idea, I don't think it would be too strong either.

[Rayder]

Tsk tsk fly, you know speed-clips aren't called speed-magazines.

The Lightning can't hit that group of soldiers on the other side of the wall that your facing.


X (Lightning) (wall)--> |x (x being the infantry)

A Lightning can't pull that off unless it's on the other side of the base, but a mortar can.

[Firefly]

Like I said- it's about positioning. Bases have a 360 radius, and Lightnings are mobile. They can drive around to the other side... HOWEVER- if a Lightning driver is smart, or knows what he's doing, he (or she) will have another Lightning.

We dont use "speed clips". We have speed-loaders for our magazines.

[321]

I like the flail more.

[EarlyDawn]

Yes to man-portable mortars.

[gonnagetyou]

I'd love to see a man portable mortar in the game. It wouldn't be that powerful or accurate and it would add some interesting tactics to the game. It gets a positive vote from me.

[Rbstr]

Mortars would be sweet.

[MuNsTeR]

LOLOROFLWTFOMGU SO N00B THSYLL UNBALANCE TEHGAMEADN MAKE ME JH USLES!1 COUNTER-STRIKE 4 EVR!!!!!111!!! is what i voted for lol i dunno why

[Cyanide]

I think it could be a good idea provided it has the following characteristics:

1. 400m max range. The max radar range on the mini-map is 200m. That allows the mortar to be double that distance away. But being 5 times that distance away (1000m) would allow for too much spamming without much fear of somebody taking the time to come hunt you down.

2. It should require 2 people to operate. 1 person should get a laze pointer to call shots. The other would reload, aim and fire. Requiring 2 people to work together to use the weapon will help to cut down on spamming of the weapon.

3. The mortar will not fire unless a target has been lazed. Only 1 laze pointer for each mortar can exist at a time. When the person with that laze pointer is killed another laze pointer becomes available form that mortar. If the mortar is undeployed or destroyed, any laze pointer that came from it will no longer be a targeting device for that mortar.

4. The mortar can be locked to group or empire like a vehicle. So that you can keep non-squad members from acquiring a laze pointer from the mortar.

5. The mortar has large ammo boxes like a pheonix. It also takes up 2 rifle slots. This would keep people from packing any other powerful weapon other than the mortar, making it a weapon that is for special occassions, not something you carry all the time and spam with whenever you don't have anything better to do.

6. The mortar rotates and changes elevation at 1/2 the turn rate of a wall turret. This makes it possible to make very minor corrections when aiming long distances. It also lowers spamming by making it more painful for the operater to change targets quickly.

7. The mortar is part of the combat engineering certification. This would finally give CEs something that can do direct damage instead of having to put down mines and spit fires, then wait for the enemy to come to them.

[EarlyDawn]

I disagree with the need for a spotter. Blindfiring artillary can be a huge part of war. Just give it a long reload time for cooling and reloading. Defenitely give it the different shell types.

[Cyanide]

I disagree with the need for a spotter. Blindfiring artillary can be a huge part of war. Just give it a long reload time for cooling and reloading. Defenitely give it the different shell types.

If it's easy for 1 person to use and can be aquired from any terminal (since it's an infantry weapon) it WILL be spammed like crazy. A long reload time will not cut down on spamming at all. When you have 15 people sitting outside of a tower shelling the base with mortars, it's not going to matter how long the reload time is.

Besides, I've never heard of blind firing artilery in a real battle. That would be a complete waste of ammunition. I highly doubt that it's a regular occurance.

[EarlyDawn]

It should require a spotter to work effectively, but you defenitely shouldn't have to have a target lazed to fire. If 15 people are lined up firing mortars and you can't take them out, it's not gonna matter. The reduced range ensures that any base that isn't totally barracaded inside will be capable of hunting down and greasing the mortar positions.

[martyr]

please stop saying "clips", people. It's called MAGAZINE. A clip is a freaking piece of wire that holds money and papers in place. Only retarded wanna-be ghetto-gangstas say "clip", and I highly doubt anyone here is an OG Thug.

hear, hear. the use of "clip" in place of "magazine" traces back to belt-fed weapons, where each little metal peice that latches two shells together is called a clip. they're tiny black things that look like the number "8" from the end, no larger than 1" x 1".

[Ait'al]

The game already has artilery that does exactly the same hting. its just a different package. 8\'

good idea?Where the hells the no option! :ugh:

[martyr]

the "no" option's the last one.

[Fenrys]

Until the advent of smartbombs (or GPS guided, fin-stabalized artillery rounds), blind-firing artillery was the norm. You would figure out how far away the target was by using a map, figure its direction with a compass, and use calculus to figure out what angle to fire at and how much propellant to use.

And then there are these things:



http://www.students.uwf.edu/ajk1/immages/m692_m731_adam_usafas.jpg

http://www.students.uwf.edu/ajk1/immages/m718_raams_usafas.jpg

[Veteran]

Too bad you can't deploy the Flail, get out and act as your own spotter.

[Cyanide]

Until the advent of smartbombs (or GPS guided, fin-stabalized artillery rounds), blind-firing artillery was the norm. You would figure out how far away the target was by using a map, figure its direction with a compass, and use calculus to figure out what angle to fire at and how much propellant to use.

Yeah, that's not exactly what I would call "blind". In that situation you have distance and direction given to you by some intelligence. Then you calculate how to adjust the aim accordingly. The intelligence in this case would be provided by the laze pointer.

[Firefly]

Intelligence can also come from your scouts/recon, or a simple SPOT report from a battlefield element. If they provide their location, and your artillery firebase is within range, a good gunner may be able to fire a few spot rounds before your recon gives them adjustments. That's a little too many people in the mix, which reaffirms my opinion that Flails are combat-support weapons.

With a mortar, you would be within line of sight, and thus able to make the adjustments yourself. Artillery is a long-range devastating solution; mortars are a short-order close-range temporary stop-gap.

[Rayder]

Jack, or grab a Prowler, and man it yourself, that's a pretty good mortar.

[Indecisive]

No way. We already have the frickin flail, and too many insta frag weapons that you can just run into.

Frickin mortar...just say no.

[Javenn]

I think this idea would make base capture alot harder since the defenders could just sit on the walls and pummel the offense.

[Incompetent]

I like, with the stuff firefly added especially. Just ditch the HA req and make it an MA weapon.

[Indecisive]

I think this idea would make base capture alot harder since the defenders could just sit on the walls and pummel the offense.


Thats the problem. One person with it could hold off 2 squads.

[Professor Frink]

I think the game would deteriorate into a non stop artillery war if this was added.

What kind of poll is this? The choices are bullshit... :huh:

[Indecisive]

Seconded. The their option is still more viable then the first two.

[Firefly]

Thats the problem. One person with it could hold off 2 squads.
With an excellent defensive position, with mounted defenses or crew-served weapons, one squad should be able to hold off a platoon, at least. However, since whatever tactical genius designed the bases made it more like swiss cheese, NONE of that is possible.

This brings up the point of defenses. Everyone screams how base defense should be given more incentives and XP. As it stands now, you have to practically let your opposition get down to one minute, then roll in and kill everyone and rehack. Don't give me that bullshit about "Well if you sit in a turret and kill a hundred enemy, you get more XP than hacking a base with a good battle." That's a load of horse dung.

I have seen maybe a handful of solid-awesome base defenses in this game, since exclusive beta. They've all been within the last month. Each time, we defended a direct-to-warpgate base that prevented the enemy from getting a foothold on the continent, so the fighting was localized to one spot. We had a shield module and a pain module installed, AA and AV weapons on the walls, combat engineers running crazy between the two gates, all turrets manned, a handful of MAX locked down at the back door, and tanks sitting stationary in the archway, behind the shield. Almost all of the friendlies were sitting at one base waiting for the attackers. In short, everyone and their brother was waiting and it was a matter of numbers.

If I'd been in charge of the Terran Republic Army when my engineers were building bases, I'd have executed every last one of them. What dipshit puts a back door in the wall and then slaps a hackable door as the only defense? And furthermore, what tactical Einstein puts two giant archways down, with only a few tank-barriers in the middle? Until the shield module, virtually any enemy could waltz right in. Not too many people want to defend because all you do is a) give the enemy XP as they mow you down and b) more points toward the hack-XP. It's a losing battle, and only an S&M addict would enjoy seeing how long he could hold out.

My suggestions for a cure? The first step in making base defenses better, is making bases themselves better.

-- Internal defenses would be a good start. Perhaps automated turrets inside, guarding base chokepoints. An alarm system, not just a stupid whoopie light and a text message.

-- Put electronically-raised barriers in the archways. Their normal position could be down, but when an enemy is detected within the SOI (via the Interlink lattice link) they'd pop up. Such a raised barrier isn't large enough to completely seal the archway, allowing for incoming and outgoing fire (except when the shield module is installed). Such a barrier is also NOT hackable, but instead goes down if the base loses power, goes neutral, or is hacked. This could be tweaked, though, and it's acceptable to have a hack panel if your offense blows nuts.

-- More variety for turrets, perhaps dumbfire missile racks (these would need to be refilled, to prevent "spammage"). This gives bases a fighting chance when faced with a convoy of Vanguards dumping a thousand rounds into you point-blank, and all you have is the Phalanx BB Gun.

-- The back door. I read somewhere that the developers were going to put a double-hack system on the back door, where you had to hack it from within before you could open the back door. They were planning on putting a blast shield over the "back porch". With a double-hack system, you'd be forced to hack from the inside (raising the blast shield) and THEN your forces could go hack the back door.

This also gives Galaxies a newly-rediscovered role. If a base is fully defended and locked up tight, you'd almost have to air-drop people inside to get the base down. Base attacks would be more difficult, base defenders would actually have a fighting chance, and base defense XP would go up as you carve a hunk out of defenders before they mount a serious, major effort to overwhelm you.