Base Backdoor: Cheap Point of Entry?

[Professor Frink]

This was touched on in another thread but I want to expand on it a little.

When I'm attacking a base, I love the fact that I we can rush the backdoor & have almost instant access to the enemy's spawn room. When I'm defending I of course think it's cheap. Defensability has been a major topic lately. I think the idea of a backdoor that any grunt with a REK can access is absurd. My question to you the fine members of PSU is, "How can we fix this?" That area must be better defended.

I think one thing they can add is maybe allowing only those with a Hacking or even an Advanced Hacking certification unlock that bitch. Let the creative juices flow...

[Laeritides]

The back door is a death trap if it is defended. You have to come out of the one door and it should be covered with Maxes and Thumpers.

[Rayder]

Defensability? Wooo, gotta love the terms people use :doh:

It's called teamwork and balance. If your an attacking force, and you can't get inside the enemy CY, thus, you can't take the base, how would that make you feel? Likewise, if the attacking force had your CY, and you couldn't get out into it, how would you be able to take back your base? The backdoor is both a back route in, and a back route out. It creates more tactics and teamwork, having a team guarding the backdoor so attackers can't get in, or defenders out. It was a good idea, and it will stay.

[Biohazzard56]

Backdoor is only cheap if your "stupid" and get flanked and dont have the sense to have some defense measures implemented in the back. One backdoor took my platoon 30 minutes to breach. Alot longer than it takes to breach most frontdoors, moving from assaulting to capturing for that matter.

[Professor Frink]

Defensability? Wooo, gotta love the terms people use :doh:

I invented a word! :rolleyes:

Sure you can hold it for a while, but when an overwhelming zerg is pushing it won't last long. You can say all you want about teamwork & people being "stupid" for letting em in, but all I'm saying is an extra security measure wouldn't hurt. Especially when the door faces directly at a tower.

[TeraHertz]

If your an idiot and leave the back door without motion sensors, or if you have no people keeping an eye out, and no-one defending it then tought.

Its like saying "is shooting somone in the back cheap"
Maybe its not as glorious and honourable as storming the front, but it's valid.

[Rayder]

You gotta place the motion sensors in the right spot, otherwise they are useless. The space between them really needs to be shortened.

[Professor Frink]

Noone is talking about having an undefended backdoor. Having a backdoor in a military installation is odd. I'm simply proposing an extra measure of security, no matter how small. If for no other reason, to increase a tiny bit the level of strategy needed to breach.

[Mudflap]

It's easy to defend a back door. I like it being there. I think some people want a single point of entry, so they can stand still, clicking a mouse button, utilizing their superior tactics to rack up kills. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be playing.

I don't think it needs any security beefup. It's a long tube. How much easier to defend would you like? Put up motion sensors and it's all good. Plus, you have a wall above it for friendlies to plasma the crud out of the troops below.

[Neon Apocalypse]

yeah a backdoor thats defended is pure murder, i remember once we were trying to get in a TR backdoor with tons of maxs, once the door opened a wall of red beams came out, it was impossible to get in

[Doppler]

Defensability? Wooo, gotta love the terms people use :doh:

It's called teamwork and balance. If your an attacking force, and you can't get inside the enemy CY, thus, you can't take the base, how would that make you feel? Likewise, if the attacking force had your CY, and you couldn't get out into it, how would you be able to take back your base? The backdoor is both a back route in, and a back route out. It creates more tactics and teamwork, having a team guarding the backdoor so attackers can't get in, or defenders out. It was a good idea, and it will stay.

I'm sorry raider, this line of logic is such an incredable load of wash you should be ashamed of yourself. If the enemy holds my CY, why in gods name whould I, a single trooper, exit the relative safety of my base, run all the way around the perimeter wall back into the base and then fire on the enemy (who will have tanks if their holding a CY) with my pitiful av weapon, thats a recipe for getting blown up. Also one point of entrty? No, even if you eliminated the back door your average base still has no less then 3 entrances, on two levels. Plus how much difrent is it, or more tactical then, respawn rush in front door with 50 of your fellows, attack any one of three points of failure (Gens, Spawns, or CC) any one of which will either cripple or route the defenders. Hack the defenders on consoles for resupply, spawn camp till you get bored enough to blow the tubes.

As it stands right now the ratio to hold a base is 2 to 1, closer to 3 to 1 if you actualy want to retake the towers and repulse the attack. This is more or less unprecedented anywhere else. These bases were designed by Lenny the retarted engineer, four kids with sandbags could design a more defensable position.

Oh incidentally.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=defensibility

[Doppler]

yeah a backdoor thats defended is pure murder, i remember once we were trying to get in a TR backdoor with tons of maxs, once the door opened a wall of red beams came out, it was impossible to get in

1 guy with a thumper can really murder defenders guarding the back door because of that downhill slope.

[Rayder]

I'm sorry raider, this line of logic is such an incredable load of wash you should be ashamed of yourself. If the enemy holds my CY, why in gods name whould I, a single trooper, exit the relative safety of my base, run all the way around the perimeter wall back into the base and then fire on the enemy (who will have tanks if their holding a CY) with my pitiful av weapon, thats a recipe for getting blown up. Also one point of entrty? No, even if you eliminated the back door your average base still has no less then 3 entrances, on two levels. Plus how much difrent is it, or more tactical then, respawn rush in front door with 50 of your fellows, attack any one of three points of failure (Gens, Spawns, or CC) any one of which will either cripple or route the defenders. Hack the defenders on consoles for resupply, spawn camp till you get bored enough to blow the tubes.

As it stands right now the ratio to hold a base is 2 to 1, closer to 3 to 1 if you actualy want to retake the towers and repulse the attack. This is more or less unprecedented anywhere else. These bases were designed by Lenny the retarted engineer, four kids with sandbags could design a more defensable position.

Oh incidentally.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=defensibility
I wouldn't exactly call my base "safe" if the CY is flooded with enemies. And whoever said you'll be going out alone? Besides, it's obvious you don't realise how much one guy can do, those vehicles bothering you? Grab a jammer, toss it at them, see what happens.

Those extra entrances on the top? They all lead out into the CY. Not exactly an alternate exit now is it?

Doppler, you need to shutup, sit down, and think about things before you attempt to try and make a sensible contribution to this forum, all I ever see from you is poor grammer, poor spelling, poor grasp of reality and what's in it, the lack of an imagination, the lack of comprehension. If it's not your way it's the highway. That's all I see in your posts. Go take a long trip to somewhere relaxing, and just sit down and think.

[SandTrout]

I'm sorry raider, this line of logic is such an incredable load of wash you should be ashamed of yourself. If the enemy holds my CY, why in gods name whould I, a single trooper, exit the relative safety of my base, run all the way around the perimeter wall back into the base and then fire on the enemy (who will have tanks if their holding a CY) with my pitiful av weapon, thats a recipe for getting blown up. Also one point of entrty? No, even if you eliminated the back door your average base still has no less then 3 entrances, on two levels. Plus how much difrent is it, or more tactical then, respawn rush in front door with 50 of your fellows, attack any one of three points of failure (Gens, Spawns, or CC) any one of which will either cripple or route the defenders. Hack the defenders on consoles for resupply, spawn camp till you get bored enough to blow the tubes.

As it stands right now the ratio to hold a base is 2 to 1, closer to 3 to 1 if you actualy want to retake the towers and repulse the attack. This is more or less unprecedented anywhere else. These bases were designed by Lenny the retarted engineer, four kids with sandbags could design a more defensable position.
Doppler, holding a base and retakeing the tower are 2 different things. They're related, yes, but different. If you doubt the power of 1 trooper, then just ignore that infiltrator that's going to blow the tubes at your tower, denieing you a respawn point, even if you manage to rehack the tower. I've held bases against large and huge forces with less than a platoon of troops because we had about 5 guys at the back door, absolutely owning everything that tried to come in.
Doppler, you need to shutup, sit down, and think about things before you attempt to try and make a sensible contribution to this forum, all I ever see from you is poor grammer, poor spelling, poor grasp of reality and what's in it, the lack of an imagination, the lack of comprehension. If it's not your way it's the highway. That's all I see in your posts. Go take a long trip to somewhere relaxing, and just sit down and think.Indeed.

[Incompetent]

Am i the only one here who thinks defending the backdoor is hilariously easy, with four or five people you can hold it against three or four times your number and with an entire squad you can hold one almost indefinently. As far as that one guy with a thumper comment Doppler, chances are he'll be getting a plasma bath all his own, it isn't that hard to bounce them back up in most bases, and in the ones you can't you can just defend the outside of the corridor, sacraficing range for the ability to mass firepower more effectively.

[AztecWarrior]

One MAX defending the backdoor is bad for attackers.
Two is almost impossible.
Three and above makes you go around and attack through the front.

Terran MAXes with Bursters count double when defending backdoors. There is simply nowhere to move, nowehere to evade.

[Doppler]

I wouldn't exactly call my base "safe" if the CY is flooded with enemies. And whoever said you'll be going out alone? Besides, it's obvious you don't realise how much one guy can do, those vehicles bothering you? Grab a jammer, toss it at them, see what happens.

Those extra entrances on the top? They all lead out into the CY. Not exactly an alternate exit now is it?

Doppler, you need to shutup, sit down, and think about things before you attempt to try and make a sensible contribution to this forum, all I ever see from you is poor grammer, poor spelling, poor grasp of reality and what's in it, the lack of an imagination, the lack of comprehension. If it's not your way it's the highway. That's all I see in your posts. Go take a long trip to somewhere relaxing, and just sit down and think.

Ah yes slamming on another guys grammar, the ultimate last ditch resort of someone who cannot refute the other guys points. My points still stands, I will outline them for you.

*The backdoor is more a detractor to the defenders then a benefit,

*Ninety-five percent of all base sieges are succesfull, worse case scenario it just takes a while.

*Main battle tanks are not threatened by an number of infantry on the ground floor tossing jammers, they are squishies at worst, target practice at worst.

*A base siege in full swing will amost always have one or more enemy vehicles covering the back door, and at least one enemy ams near the back door, guaranteeing even if the friendlies try and exit, their dead meat as soon as they leave the protective confines of the base.

*This game is still majorly skewed in favor of the cult of the attack.

*Surgile Deci/Thumper will eventualy beat defenders in a war of attrition.

[SilverLord]

it isn't cheap at all, if the backdoor was cheap, wouldn't you consider an AMS to be cheap also, or 2 doors on a tower cheap? My 2 cents.

[Acaila]

I don't see how a completely valid base entry point like the back door is "cheap". What is cheap next? Attacking at all?

[Doppler]

I need to apologize publicly to Rayder. Its a bad thing when after a few hours sleep under your belt you read what you wrote the day before and go "Hmmmm oh i let that guy out again" So i need to apologize for the tone and the personal attack nature of my comments as that wasnt right. I still believe that base defenders have the short end of the stick, and I still believe having a backdoor on a military structure is like a screen door on a submarine.

[Professor Frink]

I don't see how a completely valid base entry point like the back door is "cheap". What is cheap next? Attacking at all?

Perhaps my choice of words in nameing this thread was poor. Calling the backdoor "cheap" seems to have offended the purists. I'm NOT suggesting they remove it. I'm merely trying to gather ideas to give defenders an extra advantage. I've played since launch & have seen defenders successfully hold off an attack only a handful of times. Whether or not that is the norm I don't know. But in my experience thats how it almost always goes down. The fight often lasts 30 min or more but is almost always won by the attackers with the high ground. I've heard people mention indoor turrets or murder holes in the ceiling. I still think that they should make it so only those w/ hacking can unlock it.

[Krinsath]

I agree that it should be only soldiers with basic hacking that can unlock the back doors. As it stands, it can very quickly swing the battle before it even starts, which isn't exactly fair to the defenders if they're just getting started.

If they do keep the current setup, it would be nice to have a perma-motion sensor back there. Destroyable and repairable, just like the wall turrets and the like, but still there to set off an icon shaped like a door for anyone in the base. I think the problem is that in the heat of battle, a lot of people don't notice the messages about forces at the back door until it's too late to stop the flood from spreading out. The icon, when simply presented like that, might help.

Other than that, I'm not sure what you can do to boost defense when there aren't many people there (when it's most critical) that's not terribly unbalancing when you have a lot of defenders available. That's why the perma-sensor would be helpful, it relays information, is still vulnerable, and leaves it up to the defenders to respond to the threat...could also be a great way to set up an ambush.

Anyway, my thoughts on the topic.

[Firefly]

Maybe they should get rid of basic hacking since you can't really do shit with it. Just roll them both into one certification with 4 or 5 certs.

[SkunkPunk]

its your empires dumbass fault for having no one defend there, not SOE's

[Professor Frink]

Missed the point bud

(plus we are in the same dumbass empire)

[Professor Frink]

Noone is talking about having an undefended backdoor.
The words go left to right. Take it slow...

[Deadlock]

wow, this got pissy fast...

Anyhow, backdoors are a good idea but maybe set up wrong. Perhaps the door should be up a level and a stair case type structure should have to be used to get in to alteast some of them. Or it could be reversed and you have to go down into a trench and then back up to gain access.

The way it is now, a swarm of guys can easily overpower any defense for the most part buy just swarming guys inside with weapons to fit the current situation, i.e. deci's for max's, plazma for soldiers. Constricting the path in some way would break up this stream to a more level playing field.

That with the addition of a more "hack-proof" lock would significantly add more difficulty and defense to the backdoor, which i for one would enjoy. It's gotten to common place to run in the back and trash the enemy's supplies.

Another possible fix could be some sort of back door turret system. They could be blown up just as the other turrets but would be better possitioned to take out enemies trying to come in the back.

I dont consider back door attacks to be cheap but it would be nice to not have to worry about them so much when defending. Cause really, why would a military structure have a backdoor like that? All of you that have stated that before are 100% right, its stupid when thinking realisitically.

Although, if they put in that protective dome system thats in concept, this whole disscussion could become moot.

[SpunkJackel]

Back door, or any part of the base for that matter, is easily defended with the right weapons. As VS you put maybe 3-4 guys at the back door in rexo's all with a lasher and 3 decis nothing is getting through that door no matter what you throw at it. Lasher spam in a narrow hallway is impossible to get by. Shit, if one or two of those guys have eng and medic that door won't be breached in a long while.

The only way a game as repeatitive as this will stay fun is with variety. And now you want to take away one of the ways I can storm a base?

Fuck that.

[WritheNC]

I don't think the TR built these bases to be absolutely formidable because they didn't expect any sort of rebellion after 1000 years of solid rule.

You tend to get complacent because of that.

However, on the other end this planet was once colonized by a vastly superior race. If anything, the TR would have fortified every base to the absolute foundation with defenses if the Vanu ever actually came back.

But for game and balance purposes...I guess the backdoor is staying there.

[Professor Frink]

Jesus! Who said anything about removing them? Noone noone noone.

"I'm not trying to rob you." GtheG :mad:

[Majik]

Now if you wanted the backdoor to really get interesting, you remove the ability for either force to open it from the outside. That way you have to either 1) Get a cloaker or someone else into the base to come and open the door, or 2) Wait for a defender to come out and then rush it. An ams driver could deploy at the backdoor, a cloaker walks up and opens the backdoor from the inside, and the ams driver stands there to keep the door from closing. He dies and the troops stop flowing long enough for the doors to close, and you have to wait for someone on the inside to open it again. FLAME ON