New In Concept

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/index.php?newsid=732

[MuNsTeR]

its good kinda, now you'll see ants everywhere

[I Hate Pants]

its good kinda, now you'll see ants everywhere

so true. I never thought of that.

[Hamma]

This sucks for specops, i suspect we will be hearing from them on the forums soon ;p

[Rbstr]

This kinda sucks and is kinda good, i thnk the dome should only acctivat when there are a large amount of enemies or hotspots near the SOI

[Ivan]

This sucks for specops, i suspect we will be hearing from them on the forums soon ;p
BOO! I like and don't like this idea at the same time.

[Rbstr]

yeah i think thats what most people are gona say. Down with zergs, but at the expence on non zerg fights? kinda a wierd way to do it

[I Hate Pants]

This sucks for specops, i suspect we will be hearing from them on the forums soon ;p

Pfffft.. who cares. Those are the same losers who wanna be like them hollywood lone wolf soldier players. There the same players who say " the hell with teamwork. I work alone!" :rolleyes: Gimme a break. This game encourages teamwork. And thats exactly what this will do.

[Hamma]

Yes but some people prefer to, and have allot of fun playing that style of play.

[EVILoHOMER]

this is an amazin idea for game play apart from u'll hav a time where ur all still lookin at eachother like starwars episode 1 with the jedifight!

[EVILoHOMER]

zergs r the best for amazin fights? y does everyone complain apart from the nc can zerg bout 5 islands at one time! and they get u cr exp

[Firefly]

First let me say this: OH MY GOD MY PANTIES ARE WET!!! Finally there is some hope for defenders.

Now this:

Pfffft.. who cares. Those are the same losers who wanna be like them hollywood lone wolf soldier players. There the same players who say " the hell with teamwork. I work alone!" :rolleyes: Gimme a break. This game encourages teamwork. And thats exactly what this will do.
I suggest you check yourself, troop. My outfit specializes in this sort of thing, and we're hardly the type that lone wolf. In fact, we don't permit that shit in our outfit. If you're smart, or you want any hope of surviving a commando-op, you work in at LEAST a team of two, if not three or more. And FURTHERMORE, if you're GOOD at it, you're coordinating with one, two, maybe even more small teams to ensure you don't end up in the same SOI.

But that's fine- you probably don't know what it's like outside the zerg, so I forgive you. I suggest to you, that before you begin lampooning or flaming, or otherwise picking fun at these sorts of operations, that you try hanging with us. It gets especially difficult when you're working on an Interlink-linked base with motion alarms, Spitfires, and the occasional attentive Jackspammer-Surger and all you've got is an infiltrator suit and/or Reinforced full of Boomers.

[THrONeBeaST]

Spec ops is fun and sometimes we are alone and other times like us in -CDL- , we work in a small group to take some gens down or just coz havoc :)

[Biohazzard56]

As a grunt/pilot, i like the idea of this and enemies coming in waves. Just a better way to add depths and tactics into Planetside.

[BadAsh]

Three quick points and a suggestion:

1. Get your CEP now before it becomes impossible to hit CR5

2. Great, more sitting around waiting for action (yes I'd like some cheese with that fine whine :) )

3. Hey! What happens to the shield module then?

Suggestion:

Give each base a "shield cannon device" that the ANT's can fuel at a special silo within that base. When fuled this cannon can be directed at an enemy base that has shields up. I think it would be much cooler to see one base bombing the crap out of another bases shields until they finally give and let the horde in. Things to consider:

1. You'd need a gunner for the cannon which can only be directed at a linkable bases shields. It should do no damage to anything else except maybe an EMP type effect in any aircraft that happen to get hit? I dunno, maybe that would be cool as a side thought but not really important. Anyway, it should be a huge turret type device that has a simple targeting dislpay with which bases you can target and make a selection from. You don't really aim it you just select the base to be broken and it does it's thing. Got more than one base linked to this one? Then you could have more main shield gunner/fuel crews working the shields to bring them down faster! :)

2. The gun would have a slow rate of fire and require a few (2-3) full ants worth of recharging to fire enough to take down a bases shields. So a team of a gunner and a few dedicated and drivers/deployers would be needed and it would take them the 5-7 min to take the shields down. Run out of gun fuel/ammo? Then your whole attack stalls until you correct this. Also, I'd only allow 1 full ANT at a time in a shielded base to give the defenders a better chance to counter atack the cannon's ammo supply. So you'd either have to coordinate arrival times for the ANTs or dedicate troops to guard the waiting ANTs.

Anyway, I would love to see the effects of a main base cannon blasting away the shields of a defending base (which could be returning fire to take down the attacking bases shields to maybe force the Zerg to defend as well). Nothing prevents a hack like hacking the only linked base to yours. A mindless Zerg could end up chasing it's own tail if it's not organized properly.

I think intercepting an ANT would be more challenging and fun than destroying stationary deployed ANTs that are slowly leeching shield energy... seems to me a few dedicated kamakazi pilots could keep a zerg at bay forever with the deployed leaching ANT idea.

[Rbstr]

That will be nice, but now whats the use a flails?

Its making it more like the standard FPS, with maps (being the facilities) except you have to move to get to a new one.

[EVILoHOMER]

thewy hsud hav danger zones every 30 mins on one island where if ur in that zones u get hit by the weather and earthquakes and the 2 moons pull the tide over and flood the base or anything there! and earthquakes :d be great! and make greta battles

[EVILoHOMER]

they shud* also who thinks searhus shud errupt?

[MuNsTeR]

This kinda sucks and is kinda good, i thnk the dome should only acctivat when there are a large amount of enemies or hotspots near the SOI
that pwns

[EVILoHOMER]

also id love to see melee weapons!!!!!!

[Peacemaker]

Wtf. This TOTALY negates Spec ops in every way. Now what the hell are we supposed to do to stem the flow of 40 mag riders. It used to be if we were getting a constant zerging of enemy equipment we would blow the gens and bam, no more tanks and we can move.

The best way to incorperate this into the game would be to make it turn on only when 25+ enemys are around the base. That way we can still have small squads hack a base.

[Biohazzard56]

Melee weapons are useless, they need to fix CEP for this change

The best way to incorperate this into the game would be to make it turn on only when 25+ enemys are around the base. That way we can still have small squads hack a base.

Great Idea!

[TeraHertz]

It's certianly an interesting idea. Lots of good ideas at the moment. It's a shame they take so long to come to fruition. Defending a zerged base is often the most fun, espeicaly when we win.

One bad thing. Aircraft. Ants are extremley vulnerable to them. All it takes is some mozzies to continuously suicide on them to stop any getting near your base. Nothing stands a chance of killing them in time if they afterburn in.
Similary Reavers are going to be hard to stop from killing ants, as they will be able to dodge in and out of the field.


The infils new vehicle: the ANT.
Also comming to a continent near you:

The ANT swarmed AMS! :p

[Peacemaker]

So basicly the general consensous is that this is the best worst idea the devs have ever had?

[ghost018]

As I posted in the OF, this sounds like a lot of work for squads who choose to avoid following the zerg.

ghost

[Professor Frink]

I like it. Not the jaw dropping idea we were all expecting apparently, but it's definitely original. Maybe allow no more than 5 enemy troops to enter the bubble when active. No maxes. This would allow small spec ops teams to still do their thing.

[MuNsTeR]

also id love to see melee weapons!!!!!!
:p

[scarpas]

:thumbsup:

[EarlyDawn]

So basicly the general consensous is that this is the best worst idea the devs have ever had?Erm, I think everyone can think of at least one tweak they'd like to see, but I don't see anyone saying they hate it.

[EarlyDawn]

Why does EVERY thread I post in go dead?

[Cryptica]

I think the overall concept is amazing, but some things need to be tweaked. I LOVE the idea of making defending worthwhile. It may actually whip some of those lazy bastards I play with into a fighting mood. I have a couple ideas to modify/add on to this concept:

1 - XP for Successful Defense: Basically, if the 30 minutes finishes and the base is still held, how about everyone get some XP? They could break it into chunks like they do for offensive assaults. For every 10 minutes you are defending the base, you get XP equal to the total amount of XP gained by your empire in the fight. That could add up to some massive amounts of XP, so maybe a cap at 5000 like offensive assault.

2 - Spec ops are ka-put: I agree with Hamma in some small way. Spec ops are pretty much shot with this idea. Someone mentioned having the shield go up only when 25+ enemies were within the SoI? I like that idea. Basically the believe is that if less than 25 enemies are attacking the base and your empire can't get it back, then you don't deserve the base anyways! Although it may want to be modified down to like 15 or so, but it's not important.

[Professor Frink]

*crickets chirping*

[BadAsh]

Wtf. This TOTALY negates Spec ops in every way. Now what the hell are we supposed to do to stem the flow of 40 mag riders. It used to be if we were getting a constant zerging of enemy equipment we would blow the gens and bam, no more tanks and we can move.

The best way to incorperate this into the game would be to make it turn on only when 25+ enemys are around the base. That way we can still have small squads hack a base.

Or perhaps only have the shields activate to protect a base that has a hack link to an enemy base. So the front line bases would be protected, but the unhackable bases to the rear would still be vulnerable to special ops type raids...

[Professor Frink]

Good idea. I second that shit.

[Spee]

Are you kidding? This will make specOps LOTS more fun, WHILE increasing teamwork needed! :D


Example: The fight is at Itan. Theres, pretty much a stalemate. 4 specOpers go to Orisha, a good jog away, and lower the shield. Now, the defenders are forced with two decisions: Attempt to dispatch units to aid in Orisha's resecure, and sacrifice much-needed bodies for the defense at hand, or, Hope that the small amount of defenders at orisha can take out the specOps team before they can disable the tech plant?



Granted, this example doesnt work too well with bases close to one another, but still the same principle applies.

[Professor Frink]

4 specOpers go to Orisha, a good jog away, and lower the shield.

That would work, but as it stands now (i believe) the defenders would know if a shield is lowered at another base. I would imagine a warning would be broadcast since they broadcast every other thing. In other words, the element of surprise would be lost. The idea of only frontline bases having a shield would rock.

[Spee]

That would work, but as it stands now (i believe) the defenders would know if a shield is lowered at another base. I would imagine a warning would be broadcast since they broadcast every other thing. In other words, the element of surprise would be lost. The idea of only frontline bases having a shield would rock.



Well thats the point. It would destabilize the force, and prove FAR more effective than simply dropping the gens.



I dont think the VS would be defending Itan too much longer if half the population scrambled with the "baa-baa" mindset to go resecure the base. If not, then the tech gens go down.

[Rbstr]

yeah that would be good, only bases with a link to an unfriendly base would have them?

[Searo]

Evil Homer, I beg of you, please use some sort of spell check device, or stop typing with your feet.

Also, this idea really...does nothing.

Bases worth defending? How? 10-20 minute lull in the action so the zerg can gather? I really don't see bases becoming all that easier to defend. A zerg can still quickly overrun a base regardless of the # of defenders when the shield is down.

All this is doing is killing special ops. The devs seem to want a zerg mentality. Only got five guys? Too bad. Not going to be able to drop that shield.

They seem to be grasping at straws.
"Well, at least they liked our Capital Idea."
"Yeah."
"Approval up, must kill support!"
"Quick, let's make a forcefield!"
"Damn, we already put one in with that expansion thing..."
"Let's make it bigger and tie in that stupid ANT!:
"Yeah!"

[I Hate Pants]

Or perhaps only have the shields activate to protect a base that has a hack link to an enemy base. So the front line bases would be protected, but the unhackable bases to the rear would still be vulnerable to special ops type raids...

hmmmm... not a bad idea actually. Only front line bases should have these force fields.

[Rbstr]

yeah we need a better way to Push back the zerg and reverse the tide of battle

[domdre]

This idea would be great if it was more like a "Force Wall" where you couldnt enter the facility except by air. Imagine if the galaxy was auctally useful again imagine the possiblities!

and this from a guy who doesnt even play ps heh

[Professor Frink]

I dont think the VS would be defending Itan too much longer if half the population scrambled with the "baa-baa" mindset to go resecure the base.

"BAA BAA MINDSET?!?" First off... well we probably do have that mindset.

[Rbstr]

This idea would be great if it was more like a "Force Wall" where you couldnt enter the facility except by air. Imagine if the galaxy was auctally useful again imagine the possiblities!

and this from a guy who doesnt even play ps heh


That is an ultimate idea!

[Spee]

"BAA BAA MINDSET?!?" First off... well we probably do have that mindset.


I play VS primarily :p



Im just saying, humans, as a species, are easily duped into the "follow the leader" idea.

[Seer]

I don't see why specops would be screwed. It would be reasonable to put these only on frontline bases.

That said, I think there are much better ideas. Why not give the defenders more and more durable tools to defend with?

[Ait'al]

There making game changes for small issues and not caring about the overal game affect!! 8\

[Professor Frink]

Small issues? Defenders have needed a helping hand for a while now. This may seem a little heavy handed to be sure but they will tweak the shit out of it. And thats if it even sees the light of day. At least they are trying.

[1024]

cool, but atthe same time, kills small battles, which totally blows.

[I Hate Pants]

Im actually starting to think that this is a bad idea. Instead the devs should consider redesigning bases to make them more defender friendly. AKA making the bunkers more useful and adding blast doors for the back.

[EarlyDawn]

Additional Thoughts
- Make it a OBO upgrade.
- Put in a smaller NTU silo for the shield. Every time it reforms, drain 10%.
- That silo should be independent from the main silo.
- If necessary, an outfit officer who owns the base, of a preset command rank (set by Outfit leader) can shunt NTUs from the field generator to the main to save the base.
- You should be able to drain the enemy NTU silo. After a three-minute hack time at a terminal somewhere deep in the base (Lounge/Cryo Room bottom floor?), both silos unlock and can be drained by any ANT.

[Edit: For the record, I fully support this. It actually lets the defenders win instead of stall:thumbsup:]

[Professor Frink]

Instead the devs should consider redesigning bases to make them more defender friendly. AKA making the bunkers more useful and adding blast doors for the back.

I tried to bring this up & was flamed mercilessly.

[EarlyDawn]

I think if they do both, along with OBO, we'll have that persistance a lot of us have been searching for. It should take at least three days to take a locked continent; it should require real planning, and the real support of the whole empire. Then CR5s will stop dicking around and fighting their own personal campaigns (works fine like it is now, don't get me wrong) and we'll see an actual, respectable chain of command start, especially around outfits. Alliances will just increase the planning.

[I Hate Pants]

I tried to bring this up & was flamed mercilessly.

Lets hope history doesn't repeat itself.

[MuNsTeR]

I tried to bring this up & was flamed mercilessly.
:( its a good idea though

[Incompetent]

I like, but make it come down for twenty instead of thirty minutes, and maybe add a few more incentives for skirmishing for terrain outside the shields.

Possibly add in small underground defense bunkers that can't be destroyed and have some sort of heavy AV turrets, give them equipment/spawn options like an AMS and put them in defensible positions so sieging enemies would have to crack the defense web before draining the shields.

[SandTrout]

Screw this, the last thing we need is to fuck over specops more than it is already. Even with the front-lines only bases, there are often inactive bases that have a hack-link to a distant base. I think they should just scrap this idea now.

[Fenrys]

BAA BAA mindset? C'mon, I play a VS on Emerald and our commanders have to BEG us to give up a fight to go resecure a distant base. I recently got sick of it and droped my magrider for a skeeter (because, in the words of Stephen Segal, "Who the hell else is gonna do it?").


Or perhaps only have the shields activate to protect a base that has a hack link to an enemy base. So the front line bases would be protected, but the unhackable bases to the rear would still be vulnerable to special ops type raids...



I'd rather see behind-the-lines bases have open canopies, making airborne insertion a requirement for spec-ops raids and increasing the usefullness of galexies.




Since ANT's were mentioned, I'll throw in my 2 cents on 'em.

Buying the ANT cert for 2 points gets you access to 3 new ants, 1 empire specific and 2 common pool.

- VS ant would hover, making it similar to an unarmed thresher. It could use NTU's as afterburner fuel, but the engine could only handle the extra heat while gliding over a body of water. The afterburners will require a cool-down period only if they are used on land (since max land speed would be much greater)

- TR ant would have a skeeter's chaingun mounted over the drivers seat that is aimed like a Lightning. NTU's are converted by an automatic on-board mini-terminal (ABOMINAL) into ammo, but the gun overheats and has a cool-down period.

- NC max would have a large cylindrical grinder mounted behind a reinforced and extended bumper. The bumper itself would be shielded (shield fuled by ntu's - quite a hefty shield if the ant is full - puts a prowler's armor to shame), and can be raised above the vehicle to shield somewhat from air attacks, or lowered (slowly since it's heavy, and the shield would be inactive while the grinder is in transit between the true front of the ANT and the fully down position where it reactivates - my reasoning in this will be explained below) to clear mines/run people over. Acceleration is vastly reduced and turning is impossible when the mine-clearing grinder is fully down.
The vehicle will start to bleed off speed as soon as the grinder is fully down, and in this way it will require a bit of skill to run people over with your neigh-invincable shield. Note that the rest of the ant takes damage as usual, so you'd need to hit it in the front or back while the grinder is up, and anywhere but from directly in front of it while the grinder is in mine-clearing mode.



- 1st Common pool ANT would become a mortar when deployed (ie it can't gather NTUs like normal) that fired grenades (stored in the usual 6-pack ammo boxes in the trunk) with a low RoF (think decimator). Its secondary fire mode would draw on a special ABOMINAL to create a non-leathal round with a camera mounted in the nose. Unfortunatly, without the ability to gather NTU's, you need to use your precious trunk space on boxes of nanitess. A camera round consumes a full box of 100.


- 2'nd common pool ANT would be a mini-deliverer. It would hold a driver, 2 passengers, and a max. Boxes of nanites in the trunk would be used to power the equiptment terminal on the back (only accesable when deployed - again, no NTU gathering ability). 1 nanite would be used to create 1 armor inventory space (ie an Infil suit would cost 45 nanites and it would cost another 9 to buy an AMP, another 9 for a REK, and so on)


*edit*
The old ANT dosen't get touched. Anyone with a vehicle cert can get one.

[EarlyDawn]

I don't understand the point of the NC ANT but the idea of the ANT being able to transform into an emplaced mortar powered by NTUs rules. IMHO, the ANT should be a battlefield multitool. It should be for refueling, it should be for disabling shields, it should serve as an equipment terminal of some sort. A lot of PSU guys know I'm a support guy. I should be proud to say "I drive the ANT, fulltime", and I should be as well-recieved as an AMS driver. :thumbsup:

Thought: Prehaps unlock new deployment settings based on certs I take, an example being a med station if I have advanced medical, and the afformentioned mortar with an artillery cert.

SUMMARY: Make ANTs critical to every battle, and make them multipurpose. Allow players to use them in a capacity that makes sense with OTHER certs you take.

[WritheNC]

In order to breach a shield, let an EMP blast or 5-6 jammer nades in a few seconds(read: at least 2 people need to throw nades together) and give a small window of opportunity for infantry to get inside. Since it is a disruption effect that nullifies the shield, it doesn't set off any facility warnings or messages as the AI would dismiss it as an "environmental anomaly," perhaps thinking the shield was negated by a thunderstorm or something.

This would allow spec ops to breach the shield.

P.S. Spec ops require A LOT of teamwork. They're easier to do than teamwork in a zerg because in a zerg the strategy goes right out the window since the shit hits the fan so fast

[EarlyDawn]

But then what's to stop the zerg from just Jammering the shield and stepping right through.

[Heavygain]

Can you say "Tight"? sounds like it would really add a lot of potential to the game.

[Seer]

The main problem is that they bases are naturally indefensible structures. Most of them are on open terrain and have, normally, three or four doors.

They could have made floating bases that were only vulnerable to air assault. They could have put bases into the sides of mountains, Afghanistan-style. Bases with natural choke points. Bases with artificial chokepoints (i.e. only one gigantic, stupid archway to the cy instead of two). They've already admitted that their base design was severely lacking, so that leaves band-aid solutions like the giant shield. I think that it's a bad idea.

Respite for the defenders should come in the form of superior defensive emplacements, not some silly force dome. Wall turrets are alright, but they have a lot of blind spots and could be supplemented by heavier deterrents. I don't mean to make an attack impossible, but a well staffed base should be capable of resisting a much larger force, even if it is only as long as their ntus hold out. Not by cheesy game mechanics like forcefields, but by the inherent advantages offered by defending. Presently the only constant advantage for defending a base is wall turrets, since they are the only things the attacking force cannot possess, and they are easily neutralized. Even for improvised military installations, that's pathetic.

[Rbstr]

Yeah better bases would be better, like island bases (not liek voltan but smaller islands liek Evie Islan Lairs!) and ones on top of clifs and in clifs. Keep some the same. It they were harded to just zerg the game would be much better, this game deffenders never win, the enemy just keeps comming and you keep losing.

[SandTrout]

A simple way to stop the zerg, engorage enemy waves instead of steams, and make deffence that much easier is to remove the Towers as spawn points.

Thats right, remove the tubes from the towers, add ground repair-rearm silos to watch towers, and ADV medical terminals to all towers. Towers would still be valuable as resupply locations, especialy since you'll have taken damage on the way to the base.

This would also increase the Value of support certs because you'll need to repair and heal along the way, and the longer times between respawning and fighting will make the revive feature actualy usefull. This would, however, compleatly change the way the game is played, and the end result, I believe, would be fewer Zerg battles, and more platoon on platoon fights. APCs would be useful for geting your forces there in once peice instead of mobile artilery platforms.

[Neon Apocalypse]

y not have spec ops try and disable this thing with a sort of device instead? you would have to hunt them down and stop them before they take down the shields

[Professor Frink]

Love the pic of the sqweek man by yer name. thats always how we pictured him.

[Doppler]

This idea would be great if it was more like a "Force Wall" where you couldnt enter the facility except by air. Imagine if the galaxy was auctally useful again imagine the possiblities!

and this from a guy who doesnt even play ps heh

Oh great, reavers etc get more of a field day. Wonderfull.

[Doppler]

Seer pretty much saved me a lot of typing, also Sandtrout makes an excellent point, possibly the best damn idea on this whole goddamned thread.

[EarlyDawn]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind the tower change either.

[xmodum]

Also, I'd only allow 1 full ANT at a time in a shielded base to give the defenders a better chance to counter atack the cannon's ammo supply. So you'd either have to coordinate arrival times for the ANTs or dedicate troops to guard the waiting ANTs.
no , its already to bad now becuz people get mad that they had to go refill an ant and theres some1 there, if u did that then they would be tking the first person cuz they wanted to go first (mostly n00bs and poor sports)iv heard of to many cases of this happening now when they ahve to rifill a base

[Deadlock]

I agree that this force field thing is a "quick fix" but if its what they want to go for here's how i propose to save the spec-ops... specially since i enjoy doing that myself.

I like the idea of having it vulnerable to air drops, so my suggestion to keep the reavers out and the gal drops in is have the thing act on a cube structure, not a dome (make it still look like a dome cause a box would be uglier than sin) but the walls of the "cube" would not allow anything in.

However, the top would allow soldiers to pass through much like the shield module. That way a gal could fly over head or u could bail out of your reaver or skeeter and still gain access to do your dirty work. This would definatlly give gal pilots something to do. I'd love it too cause damn, i miss gal drops.

But... in my perfect world, i'd scrap the idea. I would redesign the bases, make the outer walls work on more levels than 1st and second floor. Have a way to lock down the front gates, if not both just one. These "lock down" stuctures could be destroied as well as repaired but by prolonged exposure to damage or repair guns.

Also, more significant defense of the back door or better yet shove the thing into the side of a mountain and elminate the back all together at some bases (Afgani'style i believe it was called)... if you really need a backdoor then in those situations allow a secion of the mountain to be "blown apart" after sufficent blasting to reveal a tunnel type passage into the pass (now we're day dreaming)

I dont want to make it impossible to take a base but just to deversify the way you attack some bases to the way you attack others... rather then all of them having a shield, u leech the shield, u run in, if u dont take the base then rense and reuse. Also, i wouldnt want every base to have every improvment i just mentioned, one would have the lock down feature with the back door locks, another could be in a hill, then another would be more of a cascading tower with the multi level walls leading to its entrances... and i supose, if the devs really like this force field thing some could have that too...

SIDE NOTE: By the way... What in God's name is happening to squeeky in that pic?!?!

[1024]

Sandrout, that is the best idea i've ever heard. EVER.

omfg, it would fix the game.

[WritheNC]

But then what's to stop the zerg from just Jammering the shield and stepping right through.

Let me add another suggestion to my idea.

The EMP blast and jammer grenades only work if the facility warnings do not go off.

The shield immediately erects itself again if a large or greater enemy force is detected within the SOI, enabling a fail safe lockdown which can only be thwarted by draining it with an ANT.

[Ait'al]

That draining with an ant thing is pathetic. the whole things pathetic. This is not the way to make base defense used more in this game. This whole we only make patches considering infantry thing is kinda messed up. There have to be a thousand more ingenious ways to incourage base defense.

[Veteran]

What this says to me is that Core Combat was a poorly thought out essay on the subject of boosting the odds for base defenders.

I think removing the tower spawn points is a great idea.

[sPooT]

The best way to incorperate this into the game would be to make it turn on only when 25+ enemys are around the base. That way we can still have small squads hack a base.

The problem is one of the reasons of the devs is to prevent exactly this, check out the topic in the official forums. They want to make "ghost-hacking" a thing of the past. Just so you know ;)

I think this can be much fun for the greater battles, like huge clashes of heavy tanks when the shield finally falls. On the other hand, blowing the gens of a (backward) base to remove the facility benefits was a valid tactic IMO, I just wished it took more than one guy to do it. It should be more of a squad effort instead of a single hacker. But oh well, I always welcome new stuff. We'll see how it turns out.

@BadAsh: That is great idea man, did you post this on the offcial boards? They're still gathering input to complete this feature. The ghost-gen-blower syndrome still remains though, you'll need to think about that ;)

[FireWolf22]

Just one thing. You all are talking about a force wall or something like that. Something that makes it so that only a gal can drop into a base. Well We have one of those. It's called the Shield Mod. Okay so now every base has a shield, one more reason for CC to have been a waste. Also the thing about the front line only getting the force fields. Have you all not looked at how many front lines there are now. You have the links to the base, you have them links from warpgates that have not been locked and you have links from the caves. I know that you were able, and haven't seen it corrected yet, to hack from the link from the caves even the inactive ones. So now you have at least 6 to 7 force field covers bases on any cont at one time. At least three warpgates, two cavern links, and the 1 to 2 links from the other bases on the cont. I can't give an accurate count on all conts, but oshur solsar and ceryshen would have 2 unshielded bases.

I do know there are other major, but easy, ways for base defence to be better. There was this idea about the bunkers being kicked around. I wonder what happened to that; make them with the one way transporters in them, move them to cover the base. I have seen them on Hossin where they are stuck out in the middle of the swamp. You can see the road but your not even near the base. Move them to cover the gates, a tactical intersection a little away, and the back doors. Give the bunkers one or two 12 or 20mm fixed gun emplacesments. Add some ammo terms so troops can restock, but with ammo and support equip only; no armor. I have run out of ammo before. Also make it where the mag mower can't mow you when they drive past the outside of the bunker. Make the wall turrets on a base a little bit more versatile. I mean damn taking a 12 or 20mm rotary chain gun up again a few prowlers is useless, oh and god for bid the reavor get above your fire arc and unload it's missles on you. We need some tracking aa turrets set up inside the bases, not on the walls and maybe change out like one of the turrets at a gate to a grenade turrent of av turrent. Or make the wall turrets have two fire modes, i.e. shooting bullets for troops and then av for vehicles. That would make peeps want to jump in the turrents more often in a defense operation. Leave the auto fire of a turrent as is where they fire ony bullets at vehicles and maxes.

These small adds would greatly help the defense against a zerg. The thing about ghost hacks. That is spec ops, you can't make them go away. Here SOE goes conforming our tactics again. I thought that was the reason for them making an infiltrator suit to begin with. Also the game is about tactics, I have heard that in the reviews and from the devs themselves. If you want us to have tactics let us come up with them and use them. Don't hold my hand and make me use the tactics you want me to. There are not tactics then. They are text book operations then.

Don't get me wrong the devs have done a good job. I really think they have. I wonder one thing. How many of them are ex-military. They may want to get at least a few ex-military on the planning and design team for ideas and layouts. That would greatly help out. I thought also that the last endevor of the devs was to get away from zergs. Now they want them. They make for good battles and zerging is the way things are won. I don't know why they wanted them to stop to begin with. Standard Military tactic; out number your enemy at least two to 1, Unless you have tech on them. In PS we can't get more technologically adv than another empire. We are all trying to be balanced to keep the game fun. So only one thing to do zerg the enemy and be tactical. Most peeps can tell a ghost hack or a ghoster taking down a gen, if it's a squad then you pull a few peeps stomp their asses and fix what needs to be fixed. Then head back to the real fight.

Sorry to be so long winded.
Wolf

[EarlyDawn]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the tower changes are approperate. Just give them all a pen where you can deploy an AMS and give it a shield whenever there's an AMS there. Kinda like a plug-in slot for it. Lets the tower remain functional as a staging point if the defenders are wise enough to bring an AMS, but still has all the other useful stuff if not.

[Lithpope]

I like and don't like the idea. I do like what someone said about having 25+ enemy in the SOI to activate it, but, in general I think it is a bad idea. What they ought to do is get more creative with CE and give us support guys a little more flexibily in base defense.

Some suggestions:

1) Make CE resistant to EMP in a base, not invulnerable, just resistant. Maybe it makes a check and survives EMP 50% of the time. I hate nothing more than carefully placing my mines, spits, and motions sensors throughout a base ( process that can take 5-10 minutes if I am carefully placing them and boom a CR 3+ comes in with EMP and destroys a large chunk of it in seconds.)

2) Beef up CE some, maybe give them 25 to 30 mines per SOI.

3) Make base specific CE items, like a beefed up spitfire ( more hp and maybe more damage) or perhaps an anti-vehicle mine only that can only be depolyed within a base SOI yet still does standard mine damage to a grunt). Maybe small AA spits that can be place on the tops of bases or in the CY that have a limited shot ceiling of say 100 meters.

4) CE portable shields that allow people to pass through but not weapons fire, the shields would have a finite number of hp before being destroyed (e.g. a deci shot could take them out).

All in all I think that the idea is a bad one and they could be more creative with CE to beef up base defense and give us support guys more tools to fill the gaps.

[Madcow]

There are a few problems I see with removing towers as spawn points (although I do like the idea of making the support certs more valuable).

1. MAXs. Maybe that's the idea, but MAXs would become something that defenders have but not those assaulting a base. That's rough. It would make the Pounder more valuable again, but it would suck to have to run from your closest base (assuming you even have one on the cont) to the base being assaulted in MAX armor every time. I think most people would just discard their MAXs and we'd see a lot more grunts around. I'm not sure I like that part.

2. There would be very little reason to capture the towers. For the most part, you may as well remove them. While saying to put medical terms in them is nice, let's face it. Those are rarely used anyhow. Repair/rearm would also be nice, but would it be worth blowing any element of surprise to get that in advance? It seems to me attacking forces would be better off ignoring the towers and immediately going after the base, as taking a tower will alert every enemy on the continent to which area you're focusing on. That gives them a chance to get into position to defend, which puts attackers at a disadvantage. As an attacking force, it would be more beneficial to try and make it into the base and get the hack and survive long enough for the hack to go through as the enemy spread out over the continent may not know where you're planning on attacking until you've begun your hack. I'm afraid towers would become second thoughts.

3. AMSs are damn near impossible to defend for any length of time. Let's say you're trying to get a foothold on a continent, you have no bases yet and there is an enemy presence. You get a platoon together and bring 5 AMSs to the outside of a base, all hidden in different places. You start to attack the base, knowing you have those 5 spawn points to use. How long are those 5 AMSs going to last if the enemy concentrates at all on rebuffing your attack? Spawn tubes not in buildings seem slightly susceptible to Vanguard/Magrider/Prowler shots. Even a well-coordinated assault on a base could be destroyed quickly and fairly easily. There aren't enough combat engineers in the game to keep AMSs alive once people know the general area that they're in.

[EarlyDawn]

UPDATE: This just in from the official forum...

Originally posted by Smokejumper
...thanks for the comments. I think you'll like the new Force Dome doc (you'll see it Thursday) that talks allows not only the ANTs to drain the Dome as "sappers", but also allows the Flails to bombard the shield from a distance (these would be the "catapults" to go along with the "sappers" if you want to think in terms of medieval warfare). You have to have the sappers to keep the shield from regenerating, but the Flails can bring it down much faster if that's the case.

Excomm: You're going to like the Generator Shield section of the new design. It's very similar to what you're suggesting for Generator protection.

Willski...Defensive Force Domes are likely to only be on sub-capitols to start with...and then available as an OBO upgrade later. Definitely *not* on all facilities.



Shini...check Thursday's version of the doc. We've made the dome a lot more interesting for saboteurs, I think. Certainly there are opportunities for them, at the least.You heard it here first. They're listening to feedback.

[Seer]

The main thing about a zerg versus a large organized attacking force is their inability to use combined arms. The vehicles and weapons that a zerg brings to bear are not used efficiently. I think bases could offer more diverse 'battle stations' for defenders. Things that would make it fatal for a zerg that wasn't using combined arms, but could be defeated by an intelligent force that knew how to hold them down.

I've devastated wave after wave of enemies using wall turrets before, only to be brought low by an infantryman with an emp grenade. He had the right equipment, the right plan, and he gave the local prowlers a chance to take me out. Whether or not that was intentional I'll never know, but it's the epitomy of combined arms, and its the kind of warfare that zergs just can't practice. They can bring to bear a lot of deadly firepower, but they can't do things like that consistently.

So make it deadly for an attacking force that doesn't plan. Bases could have flak cannons/sam sites, mortars, blast doors, and personally I think it'd be pretty sweet to have a Tribes esque command console where high rank CRs could access a number of base features that would give their team an edge, like surveilance cameras, SOI-wide waypoints, and a special broadcast channel. I say this because not only do defenders not have a significant firepower advantage, they also don't have a real information advantage. CEs with motion sensors are not enough--I destroy those three seconds after I come into contact with them and hardly anyone notices, at least not when there is a battle raging.

As it stands, bases are just empty places to fight in--a series of walls and tunnels, but I don't see why they can't be an organic part of combat. I think it would spice things up for both defender and attacker if they were met with a challenge, but I don't think that implementing an automatic force field is going to really going to give anyone what they want--a good, tough fight.

[KIAsan]

Seer,
Excellent points. I would make the surveilance cameras a CE deployable, then let them be accessed by anyone from the war room (you need the defenders to work as a team also, so no CE = no surveilance). That way, you could plant the cameras anywhere in the SOI and get great intel. Broadcast already exists, I wouldn't change that. Even the force dome is not a bad idea. Just make it so troops can drop into it (from a gal) and tie it to it's own generator (that also uses NTUS), that way, it can be blown by special ops, and if you let the ntus drain out (by not repairing the shield gen or filling the silo), you would also lose the shield. Makes eng and ants way more popular.

[apachepilotpat]

very interesting