Different Armors for different Armies [Archive]

Mazelmavin

2003-01-24, 08:55 PM

Look at this (http://planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1833)

A MAX specialized in Anti-Infantry will be the badest man on the planet when inside a base.
1- They got the biggest weapon (Anti-infantry).
2- They got the best armor by a factor of 6 (100 vs 650).
3- They seem to be just as mobile as any other armor (at least in a base).

That means if you are serious about taking a base, then A-I MAX is the armor of choice.

Agile armor can drive or pilot any vehicle. Inf. suits have the obvious purpose of being unobvious.

So where does that leave the Reinforced armor? If you're looking to be a pure grunt, the MAX has you beat. You can't pilot anything and you stick out like a sore thumb.

But there is some hope right here (http://planetside-universe.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1818).

Reinforced armor has two advantages over a MAX, the ability to carry equipment and more then one weapon (this is debatable at this time). ACE, BANK, REK, Med applicator, and perhaps more as the game grows. This, I am sorry to say to all the wanna-be, non-MAX grunts, places the reinforced armor squarely in the role of support. Medics, repairmen, engineers, and hackers will be donning this armor. I know I will.

But fear not my medium grunt friends, there may be a use for you yet. There is one other advantage to reinforced vs MAX... Transportability (if that is, indeed, a word), for the planetsides APC's can only carry a limited amount of MAX armors. For a fast attack, without the aid of an AMS, a squad of medium grunts will be the way to go.

But if an AMS is available, you are better off going with a MAX if you can.

Flashingfish

2003-01-24, 09:00 PM

2- They got the best armor by a factor of 6 (100 vs 650).
3- They seem to be just as mobile as any other armor (at least in a base).
.

Where did you get this from? There is no info on the armour values, or mobility. And I'm pretty sure that the MAX is less mobile than the other amours.

Ouroboros

2003-01-24, 09:04 PM

Bah, in the screenshots the armor value for a Vanu MAX is 650. Don' know about the mobility though... :confused:
:evildrop:

Sputty

2003-01-24, 09:10 PM

MAXes can't get inside buildings. Also, he's right about the armor because it was on a screenshot, although taht's internal beta so it may change. It can run faster but it has less mobility than normal soldier I'm sure.

Ouroboros

2003-01-24, 09:13 PM

Sure MAXs can enter buildings, theres a screenshot or two showing them indoors.

Flashingfish

2003-01-24, 09:16 PM

Yes sputty you're right, I wasn't clear before - even though there's been a screenshot, the armour values haven't been announced officially. But I'm sure the MAX will be significantly stronger.

Also when you say it can run faster, this is only in its sprint mode where it has extremely reduced turning (and I think it can't fire).

Mazelmavin

2003-01-24, 09:17 PM

This shows mobility and armor (http://planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?cat_id=37&img_id=27)

This max has an armor value of 650. I have not seen any armor values higher then 100 (reinforced) other than 650. It is possible that a MAX might have a lower armor, but it is still much better than reinforced.

The above picture is inside a base. That is all the mobility that is needed. Once inside, it usually doesn't matter how fast you move. If a MAX can turn as quick as Agile armor, then their mobility is almost the same. Another thing (and I can't provide the link for this) is that I have seen others post about the gamespot movies, specifically that MAX armors are not lumbering gaints like heavies in Tribes.

Even better, if the the MAX is not as mobile as I think, the combat (infantry) is still only on the ground. Without any jumpjets, light armors loose a lot of their mobility advantage.

Plus, even if you could run circles around a MAX, it still has 650[ armor!!

Sputty

2003-01-24, 09:17 PM

You're right, I wasn't very specific about that.

Warborn

2003-01-24, 09:18 PM

They can indeed get inside buildings. I recall quite clearly a video from Gamespot, I believe, which showed some NC boys defending their base from Vanu, and a Vanu MAX in particular. In one instance, the player (an NC guy) went into a room that has some windows, and also two doors leading outside. When the player went out the "back door", and turned to move around to the front, a Vanu MAX was on the inside of the room (you could see through the window). When he ran back around, it had moved through the front door. By the time he was in the room, the MAX had just initiated its jump-jet and was out of view. So, if that video is at all accurate, yes, MAX armor can fit inside bases.

There's also a screenshot somewhere that shows a Vanu MAX duking it out with a Terran MAX inside a base (the Terran was locked-down).

Now, as for the mobility of them, the MAX moved fairly slowly. Not too slowly, but a bit slower than infantry. However, from what Hamma has said, the MAX armor has a poor turning speed. This means that, inside, it can be hit-and-run extremely easily if the enemy knows the MAX is coming and stages the attacks in a good position.

Also, another thing, I'm not positive, but I have a funny feeling that some weapons will only be able to be used by Reinforced armor. Like the mini-chaingun, jackhammer, and lasher. Otherwise, yes, it's likely that Reinforced will be the middle son of the armor suits.

Mazelmavin

2003-01-24, 09:24 PM

However, from what Hamma has said, the MAX armor has a poor turning speed.

I maybe misunderstanding this, but the only way to make you turn slower in a FPS is to reduce your mouse sensitivity.

Also, another thing, I'm not positive, but I have a funny feeling that some weapons will only be able to be used by Reinforced armor. Like the mini-chaingun, jackhammer, and lasher. Otherwise, yes, it's likely that Reinforced will be the middle son of the armor suits.

The MAX armor can only use their specific weapons, I believe. And I don't mean to imply that reinforced will be a "middle son" (cute analogy btw), but rather its function will not be what some expect.

Sputty

2003-01-24, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Mazelmavin
I maybe misunderstanding this, but the only way to make you turn slower in a FPS is to reduce your mouse sensitivity.

Yes, the can reduce when using certain things like when using the MAX. Also, it can independently rotate from it's body like a mech in MechWarrior so it probably can't strafe like we're use to it in other shooters. One button will turn the max and the mouse will rotate the section maybe. Hard toi say. I've never seen one in action so I'm jsut speculating

TerraxNovae

2003-01-24, 09:37 PM

No, thats not the only way...
It really depends on how the engine is coded. It is quite possible to limit the time it takes to move through a certian angle, rather than relying on mouse sensitivity. More complex on the coding end, however it offers more control over the player's limitations.

Hamma

2003-01-24, 09:49 PM

All I know is it was slow turning :p

Mazelmavin

2003-01-24, 09:51 PM

When you are running or just standing there?

I can't see how that works. It would mean that the cursor actually moves slower, right?

If, all of a sudden your crosshairs move slower, then MAX armors will suck. I get a mental picture of some poor player using huge, broad, sweeping motions with his whole arm to move his mouse in order to turn and aim.

I guess a MAX would still find use outdoors with some range between it and whatever its trying to kill.

Yuyi

2003-01-24, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Hamma
All I know is it was slow turning :p

Did your mosquito have slow turning too when you saw that lake? ;)

mistled

2003-01-24, 10:20 PM

I don't know about the rest of you, but I hadn't really planned on getting into too many single infantry guy verses max battles. I'm thinking many infantry if anything. And with grenades. From around the corner. I'm sure a max can't backpeddle from a horde of grenades very well. :)

Warborn

2003-01-24, 10:51 PM

The MAX armor can only use their specific weapons, I believe.

Yes. They're basically heavy infantry weapons super-charged.

If, all of a sudden your crosshairs move slower, then MAX armors will suck. I get a mental picture of some poor player using huge, broad, sweeping motions with his whole arm to move his mouse in order to turn and aim.

Well, maybe the MAX can't strafe, and the movement keys are used for turning and moving, while the mouse points and aims, but you can only aim within a certain area based on which way you're facing. That would allow the MAX to be a slow turner, while still making them capable of actually engaging in fire-fights.

TerraxNovae

2003-01-24, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Yuyi
Did your mosquito have slow turning too when you saw that lake? ;)

You're kidding, right? Everyone knows that the lake jumped out in front of Hamma. It was suicidal I tell you!

Mazelmavin

2003-01-24, 11:14 PM

Well, maybe the MAX can't strafe, and the movement keys are used for turning and moving, while the mouse points and aims, but you can only aim within a certain area based on which way you're facing. That would allow the MAX to be a slow turner, while still making them capable of actually engaging in fire-fights.

Well that would certainly be different. Using MAX armor (or should I say driving?) would be completely foriegn to a normal FPS control scheme. Imagine aiming to a corner of your screen.

Ludio

2003-01-24, 11:56 PM

Reinforced armor can not only use equipment making them good support, but they can also carry five weapons as opposed to one. They can use one knife, two pistols and two rifles. This means that they can serve more than one purpose. The MAX can only do one thing at a time. And dont underestimate the grenades/equipment. If a grunt could heal themselves then they could last longer than a MAX even with all its armor. And grenades could be a very potent weapon as it is in many other FPS.

Dead Ben

2003-01-25, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Mazelmavin
When you are running or just standing there?

I can't see how that works. It would mean that the cursor actually moves slower, right?

If, all of a sudden your crosshairs move slower, then MAX armors will suck. I get a mental picture of some poor player using huge, broad, sweeping motions with his whole arm to move his mouse in order to turn and aim.

I guess a MAX would still find use outdoors with some range between it and whatever its trying to kill.

I dunno about the mouse sensitivity thing...other games utilize different turning speeds...for example flying a bomber on bf1942 feels and acts a lot different than flying a stuka.

Warborn

2003-01-25, 12:35 AM

Well that would certainly be different. Using MAX armor (or should I say driving?) would be completely foriegn to a normal FPS control scheme. Imagine aiming to a corner of your screen.

You'd get used to it. It wouldn't be much different than driving a tank in BF1942.

Sturm

2003-01-25, 12:59 AM

Mazelmavin you made some good points but some things either you didn't think about, or think of posting. Im thinking your speaking from your point of view as a Vanu Max....never the less it wasn't clear.
1. The 650 armor-Lets not forget this is a Vanu MAX's armor and according to the FAQ, Vanu's penalty for the added maneuverability is the decreased armor. I'm guessing the TR's and NC's MAX's have more than that(Taking a shot in the dark....750 maybe?800?)
2. Maneuverability-Jumpjets are only for Vanu and not for NC and TR(I know you probably know this...). I'm not sure how fast the turn rate is for MAX's but I can bet Sony will implement measures so we wont see tweaker MAX's owning everybody. Yes MAX's can run faster than any other ground soldier but only while in running mode.
2b?-While you might be able to charge down a hallway in a base, maneuverability will be limited inside a base. Most ceilings wont be terribly high, some just reaching above your head so using jumpjets with Vanu inside probably isn't going to provide much more maneuverability.
The role of a MAX seems to be most useful outdoors...
I have no idea how strong the anti-vehicle and ant-air weapons against infantry but assuming they aren't as effective....I think a MAX is going to shine outdoors. Any else's thoughts?

Additionaly implants are what turns a deadly MAX into a feared one. Personal shielding, audio amplifier, dark light. These are what give a simple anti-infantry MAX the capability to do so much more for the team.

....In case you're wondering....Im going MAX :lol:

Warborn

2003-01-25, 01:03 AM

Do implants even count for MAX armor? Given that it's really a miniature vehicle, and definitely does not move by the muscle power of its user, I'd think that most implants wouldn't count for those wearing MAX units. For instance, the Surge ability would not work, as the MAX clearly operates through reading the movement of the user somehow and then doing what the user wants. On the other hand, Regeneration would function normally, as the user can still be injured while wearing the armor.

Ouroboros

2003-01-25, 01:06 AM

Well, from what I got out of the Gamespot videos, the Vanu MAX could strafe. the ginormous bugger was strafing a door way and almost killed the player taking the video. :D
:sick:

Edit: Alright, nevermind, there was a gun on the ramp that was shooting. :(

Mazelmavin

2003-01-25, 01:17 AM

1. The 650 armor-Lets not forget this is a Vanu MAX's armor and according to the FAQ, Vanu's penalty for the added maneuverability is the decreased armor. I'm guessing the TR's and NC's MAX's have more than that(Taking a shot in the dark....750 maybe?800?)

Right. That is one of my main points, MAX armors will have much better armor.

2b?-While you might be able to charge down a hallway in a base, maneuverability will be limited inside a base. Most ceilings wont be terribly high, some just reaching above your head so using jumpjets with Vanu inside probably isn't going to provide much more maneuverability.

Right. Again, this is one of my points. Nobody (no armor) is going to be completely mobile inside a base. Thus, strong weapons and strong armor become dominant.

The role of a MAX seems to be most useful outdoors...

While I don't disagree, my original post was that anti-personel MAX armor will be the King of indoor combat. Not because of a sprint ability or Vanu jumpjets, but because of their massive gun and thick armor.

Actually, my original idea was to show that reinforced armor will not be the assualt armor, but will fill a support role. I can see a base assualt group (squad) composed of 6-8 MAX armors with the rest being Reinforced support (Medics, Armor repairmen, and hackers).

Ouroboros

2003-01-25, 01:25 AM

Ludio

2003-01-25, 01:40 AM

Outside the MAXs can run fast and the Vanu MAX can use jumpjets. Inside the playing field is leveled, those features will be useless. This means that a significant advatage of the MAX is no longer available. I think you are also forgetting a key factor, transport. MAXs can run fast, but can they run as fast as a Galaxy? Most assaults will be led by fast vehicles transporting troops. Eventually an AMS will be set up, but for a little while there wont be many MAX's around. Also think of grenades. In almost all other fps grenades are deadly. They can kill large groups of people easily. This might not be true for Planetside, but it will probably be similar. This means that if someone with reinforced armor sees a MAX coming, they can just throw a couple of grenades around the corner. The MAX will probably not be fast enough to get out of the way, and then it will be dead/screwed. Also I think many of the anti-vehicle weapons may be usefull against them. Why not use a decimator, I doubt a MAX could stand up to a shot from that.

A grunt doesnt mean having maximum firepower. It means having a good amount of firepower and flexibility. A MAX is a walking tank, it has a lot of firepower, but almost no flexibility. Anyone with reinforced armor can fill multiple roles at once.

Unknown

2003-01-25, 02:45 AM

As mentioned above, MAXes are walking tanks. Anti-Armor weaponry will be best against MAXs. So it really boils down to a matter of variety and balance. If your attacking squad has only AI MAXes and if the defenders have the same amount of MAXes only Anti-Armor, the defenders will probably win. But if your squad has plenty of grunts too, and a couple of Anti-Armor MAXs then you will be much better off. The Devs have mentioned, a few times I think, that a group full of only a single type of unit will have it's weaknesses. Eg. a squad of all infiltrators will be pummeled if the defenders are actively using darklight vision, a squad of snipers doesnt stand a chance against a couple vehicles, a group of AI MAXes will get their butts kicked by a couple of vehicles that might happen accross them, etc.

The key to this game is gonna be variety. The most successful squads will probably be the most flexible ones. The better prepared you are, the harder it will be to get caught by suprise.

Mazelmavin

2003-01-25, 02:51 AM

Hrm, I doubt 6-7 MAX armors would work indoors, outdoors, maybe. From one of the videos the Vanu Max's weapon is explosive, doing splash damage. Now, you times that by 6 or 7 while the enemy are shooting at you and you are shooting explosive projectiles, you are going to get a lot of grief really, really fast.

I can't argue because I haven't seen the video you speak of (btw, I do believe you). I tend to think the opposite though, explosive rounds towards the enemy * 6 (I'm a half full kind of guy). Remember you have 6 to 12 times the armor of the other guy. Also, there is no grief points if you hit someone on your team.
I think you are also forgetting a key factor, transport.
You are partly correct. I did mention that in the original post. Reinforced armor will be vital to establish a "beachhead", but once the AMS is down, why be anything less then the best(infantry wise).

they can just throw a couple of grenades around the corner
We know that the devs are looking to remove any "1 shot kills" from the game. That means if you throw a grenade at a normal soldier in Agile or Reinforced armor, I will wager they survive the blast. That means grenades cannot kill something with 100 armor, the Vanu MAX sports 6 times that amount.

A grunt doesnt mean having maximum firepower.
I should have been more clear. When I say grunt, I mean Maximum firepower. Anything with less is porbably support.

A MAX is a walking tank, it has a lot of firepower, but almost no flexibility. Anyone with reinforced armor can fill multiple roles at once.
I do agree that the purpose of reinforced armor will be flexibility. But when you are inside a base with the goal of killing off the defenders, flexibility is not a priority, killing power is.

But this is all conjecture, I want to play the damn game...

Ludio

2003-01-25, 04:27 AM

Also, there is no grief points if you hit someone on your team.

Ahh, actually thats the only way to get grief points is by tking. If you are using lots of explosive weapons then you had better be aware of your teammates.

We know that the devs are looking to remove any "1 shot kills" from the game. That means if you throw a grenade at a normal soldier in Agile or Reinforced armor, I will wager they survive the blast. That means grenades cannot kill something with 100 armor, the Vanu MAX sports 6 times that amount.

Did I say one grenade? I said a couple. And a regular infantry has an advantage over the MAX becuase it is more maneuverable in a small environment, they could leave a room before a grenade goes off, a MAX probably couldn't. And if the grenades dont kill it then it will still be damaged. Also a grenade is not the same as a sniper rifle, it has to be used at closer range, and even if it doesnt kill anyone if it takes off most of their health they are still screwed when you bust into the room with your assault rifle.

I do agree that the purpose of reinforced armor will be flexibility. But when you are inside a base with the goal of killing off the defenders, flexibility is not a priority, killing power is.

Is it though? I would rather have somone hack into the base and destroy the generators before the main attack comes rather then kill a few defenders. If your only goal was to kill defenders you may be right, but it isnt, its to take the base, by any means neccessary, and protect it from counterattacks.

Another factor which hasnt been brought up is that it takes more certs to get a MAX with one weapon, let alone all three. If you are a reinforced armor grunt and you see some MAX's heading toward your base then hop into a tank and take them out before they can get into your base, it would probably take the same amount of certs.

One of the main problems with this game is that it isnt released yet, I am confident however that the devs are taking the utmost care at balancing then game. This means that the MAX is not going to be the ultimate infantry, it will have its place like all the others.

Zatrais

2003-01-25, 07:11 AM

Guys, most of you seem to argue from the point that the MAX will enter the base alone... now why would a MAX enter a base alone if not to just see how manny he can kill before going down.

Now, when i get into a base in my AI MAX i will as soon as i see you (the enemy) spam freely (hell the VS MAX can carry 600 rounds) whit shots to keep you away while i walk point down a corridor acting as a wall for my squad and i will be the first man into a new room to try to clear it as we move towards the main terminal. Heck, a TR MAX just walking forwards spamming grenades would keep most people away hehe. And yeah i will have one guy or more repearing whatever damage you do to me.

I think MAX's will be one of the most essential tools for indoor fighting. Having a walking tank inside, don't tell me that won't be usefull. And the turn rate or the movement speed for MAX's isn't overly slow, just look at the VS MAX in the gamespot movies

Annyways, i doubt we'll see alott of MAX's. Most people seem want to use the reinforced exo. Can fill more roles than a MAX in it ya know. (poll on the PSU front page)

Ahh, actually thats the only way to get grief points is by tking. If you are using lots of explosive weapons then you had better be aware of your teammates.

You can't get greifpoints by hurting your own squad members. Not sure if that goes for platoons aswell.

Did I say one grenade? I said a couple. And a regular infantry has an advantage over the MAX becuase it is more maneuverable in a small environment, they could leave a room before a grenade goes off, a MAX probably couldn't. And if the grenades dont kill it then it will still be damaged. Also a grenade is not the same as a sniper rifle, it has to be used at closer range, and even if it doesnt kill anyone if it takes off most of their health they are still screwed when you bust into the room with your assault rifle.

People wouldn't be able to leave the room before grenades go off, only a 2 sec fuse or detonate on impact.

VS MAX ammo
http://planetside-universe.com/media/viewer.php?cat_id=37&img_id=24

Ludio

2003-01-25, 12:18 PM

Guys, most of you seem to argue from the point that the MAX will enter the base alone... now why would a MAX enter a base alone if not to just see how manny he can kill before going down.

I couldnt agree more, Mazelmavin's first post implied that he thought MAX's were all that were neccessary to take a base. I agree that they are important, but not any more important than infiltrators, or reinforced armor that is in there with them.

I know that squadmates dont get you grief points, but you arent always going to be fighting with only your squad mates, or even platoon. Even if three squads attack a base it doesnt mean they will join into a platoon unless properly organized. And there could be more than three squads. Mazelmavin didnt specify squad, only team, and the only way to get grief points is to kill people on your team.

Youd be suprised how much you can do in two seconds. Im not saying that grenades will be useless, far from it, but if a lighter armor was entering a room and someone threw a couple of grenades in they might be able to escape, with a MAX it would be harder, especially with the slower rate of turning.

I was trying to point out that a MAX is not an invulnerable god of death, simply another part of the squad that functions under the heavy assault support role.

Ouroboros

2003-01-25, 12:59 PM

It would seem that a bunch for explosive firepower would play in favor of the MAXs, and I totally agree, but seeing the videos, indoors seem quite small, small as in two might fit in a hallway, maybe 3 or 4 in the stairwells*. Plus, add in the consideration that the enemy is shooting at you with AP rounds doing mostly health damage, then a gernade rolls under your feet and drops your armor. Now, your buddies(6-7) are ALL shooting explosive rounds, with the cone of fire in play, you aren't sure exactly where they will actually hit, one of the blasts hits the ground next to you, does splash damage and kills you.
That's just not happy. :(

*In a line that is.

Ouroboros

2003-01-25, 01:12 PM

Wanna comment on this Hamma? You're the one that's played the game. :D :confused: :D

Shyfted One

2003-01-25, 01:56 PM

If all your armor doesn't have to be depleted before you start taking health damage (which I hope it's like) then most people in MAXes will probably die before their armor hits 0 anyway. By using weapons that you know will take away a good chunk of health even with 650 or higher armor, then it'd definately be effective to use against a MAX.

Metallik

2003-01-25, 02:55 PM

Ok...I'm thinking that some people...are just stupid...

It will be like in UTChampionship for X-Box, it won't take more effort to turn, just a slower amount of time. Trust me, your arm won't ware out for a matter of turning, I'm sure they're smarter than that.

NC Sucks...;)
TR Sucks...:p
Vanu Forever :)

Mazelmavin

2003-01-25, 05:18 PM

Ahh, actually thats the only way to get grief points is by tking. If you are using lots of explosive weapons then you had better be aware of your teammates.
Did I say team? Oops, I meant squad.

One other thing to Ludio,
Since this is a game that has yet to be played by a good amount of people I hesitate to call someone wrong. But you have a wrong assumption. Small enviroments limit and negate
maneuverablity. Its just a fact. You can't maneuver if you don't have room to move. For proof, take a look at a Tribes Heavy, or a HWG in TFC, or a BF1942 tank in a city(although, I will admit, a tank is kind of pushing it).

I couldnt agree more, Mazelmavin's first post implied that he thought MAX's were all that were neccessary to take a base. I agree that they are important, but not any more important than infiltrators, or reinforced armor that is in there with them.
Of course there is more to taking a base then killing the defenders, but I believe that killing those defenders can make everyone elses job a little bit easier.
I didn't mean to imply that MAX armors will be all that is needed. I think that they will have to be supported by reinforced healers and repairmen (as well as stealth hackers).

In fact, that is my point. Not that MAX armor is unbalanced, but that reinforced armor will most likely play support for MAX.
You can talk about grenades and grief, explosives and internal enviroments all you want. But if a MAX can fit its big a$$ inside a base, its going to do some serious damage before going down. And if its properly supported by reinforced armor, its going to stay up for a while.

SandTrout

2003-01-26, 05:05 AM

Reinforced armor wil supply the majority of basic grunts because it's more mobile than a MAX, and much more vercital. The poinnt of the game is not to kill the enemy, but rather to take the bases.

Reinforced armor brings good firepower, decent mobility, and good armor. While if a reinforced armor tried to take on an AI MAX, he would get slaughtered, he can also out-run and out-meneuver the MAX so that he can get behind him and/or pop him with a couple plasma 'nades.

Mobility is highly underrated indoors. If you can outrun your enemys, you can find hideing spots and set up ambushes, then run off to repair or set up another ambush.

I think SOE is trying to make the Rein armor the most effective all-around fighter, and limmit the MAX to a fire-support role.

I think Agile armor will be the pilots, snipers, and outdoor scouts. they can pilot stuff and outrun any infantry(besides sprinting MAX)

RageMaster

2003-01-26, 06:52 AM

Warborn,

I think you might be thinking a little to deep on the subject of MAX's and implants. Just because a MAX is big and heavy doesnt mean it acts like a vehicle at all, essentially it still comes under the 'armour' bracket. So things like the sprint implants, I think, could still be used in MAX armour. I have read that you need more stamina if you are in heavier armours, so I'd presume MAX's can also use this ability as they come under the 'armour' bracket, but either sprint slower, or sprint a comparatively shorter distance for the stamina they use.

�io

2003-01-26, 11:50 AM

Pretty sure MAX = mini tank. No equipment, no implants.

Think about it what's the use of a MAX having Melee Booster, Regeneration and Second Wind? And forget about Silent Run. :p

Duritz

2003-01-26, 01:49 PM

Just because the MAX is more powerful doesn't mean it can't use them; it doesn't mean that it can either. However, you can assume that just because it can't use a few effectively that it can't use any.

I think that silent run would be very nice in a MAX, but it wouldn't last long at all.

Plus most of the implants would be nice on a MAX only few are useless, and if you look at it that way a few implants are useless for each type of character except for a couple.

Zanzibar

2003-01-26, 01:58 PM

they have a seperate source of 'stamina' just for sprinting and MAX powers

�io

2003-01-26, 02:21 PM

I'm positive they won't use them, as i said many of them would be useless (Melee booster, Regeneration and Second Wind) and other would be dumb (Silent run, Surge).

The MAX is an eXo-suit not just an armor, it's not your own body doing the work it's the actual mechanized armor itself, that's why it's more of a vehicle than an armor and it can't do dexterous tasks like using a REK or other equipment.

Zatrais

2003-01-26, 02:23 PM

Darklight and audio mag would be nice in a MAX tho hehe

�io

2003-01-26, 02:27 PM

Yeah but see this is where the diffirence between an exo suit and an armor come in play. In a reinforced armor you only have a "thin" helmet to protect your eyes and and ears so those implants would still work. But in a MAX it's a very thick piece of armor, it's tank like stuff so those implants would have a much more hard time doing their job. :)

Lexington_Steele

2003-01-26, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Zatrais
Darklight and audio mag would be nice in a MAX tho hehe

Advanced targeting doesn't seeem out of the question.

Zanzibar

2003-01-26, 04:08 PM

the MAXs have a seperate 'store' of stamina specifically for running

quiet

2003-01-26, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Dio
Yeah but see this is where the diffirence between an exo suit and an armor come in play. In a reinforced armor you only have a "thin" helmet to protect your eyes and and ears so those implants would still work. But in a MAX it's a very thick piece of armor, it's tank like stuff so those implants would have a much more hard time doing their job. :)

*cough* realistically *cough* every vehicle and MAX should be getting most of the sensor implant features for free.

�io

2003-01-26, 05:23 PM

That's part of my point, the MAX is like a vehicle, it doesn't rely on the person's sight or hearing but it's own sensor capabilities.

Warborn

2003-01-26, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Zanzibar
the MAXs have a seperate 'store' of stamina specifically for running

Why would a MAX have stamina? It's a machine. It should be capable of running at top speed almost indefinitely.

Ludio

2003-01-26, 06:30 PM

I think that in the end realism wont really matter, if the devs decide that MAXs are too powerfull then they wont have access to implants. If they decide that they need an edge against vehicles then they will, it wont really matter that the suit is providing the power and not the player.

quiet

2003-01-26, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Dio
That's part of my point, the MAX is like a vehicle, it doesn't rely on the person's sight or hearing but it's own sensor capabilities.

Actually, the TR and NC MAX sure look like they rely upon the wearers sight to me. Oddly, so does my car. :D

RageMaster

2003-01-28, 07:37 PM

That's part of my point, the MAX is like a vehicle, it doesn't rely on the person's sight or hearing but it's own sensor capabilities.

Dio,

All the official info that I've read on the subject says MAX's are considered as infantry and fall under the armour bracket of certs, and most of the implants focus on infantry, so based on what has been said by those making it you can use all the implants in a MAX. Nothing has said otherwise and the other information supports it.

Bearing in mind the info on PlanetSide-Universe.com says some implants vary in effectiveness / stamina-economy based on what armour you're currently in, so you can quite easily fit the MAX, as an armour, into that model. I can rest assured using this model that those in heavier armour have been 'implant-nerfed'. The model points to the idea that the dev's have thought about this and acted in the interest of gameplay balance.

At the core level we're talking game physics here. The question is 'Can you use implants in a MAX?', so any preconceptions we have of MAX's being loaded with sensors or being fully mechanised is irrelevant, because its not specifically coded in the game. We make up the backstory, history and the characteristics of weapons/items/vehicles ourselves. You have to go on what has been said on the game physics alone, and not let the 'fiction' element factor into the judgement.

-RageMaster

P.S. Apologies if I've gone wrong here, its probabally because I've missed a dev-release on MAX's. Someone point me to the official info if I'm wrong, and I can re-asses my thoughts ;-D Thanks.