Radar Bane for Galaxies

[Doppler]

Simple poll, in the name of making Gals more usefull as a tactical insertion vehicle, and not completely announcing their presence to everyone in a thirty mile radius when their on approach to a base, do you folks feel that Gals should have no radar sig.

Ok so simplified: Do you feel that Gals should have no radar signature?

[Everay]

no, because, itd be too over powering. infact, a few gal drops on a base can turn the tide, IE, acsess to the Gen or easy acsess to the CC, though, the advantages are only there for 3 base types.

[Doppler]

True but my thinking is usualy guys on the roof seeing a gal coming in are going to, if their smart, immediately do a broadcast. In heated battles one gal drop is usualy just easy kills for the defenders, its the fucking back door you gotta worry about.

[Cryptica]

Nawh gals have high armor, they dont need anti-radar capabilities. It would be a bit too much.

[Doppler]

How can you really say that? Their practicly an endangered species because every tom dick and harry has a buggy or a MBT, so what incentive is there to take a gal, well a good insertion, but thats kinda negated by the fact that when you do overflight in a gal everyone knows your comign so a lot of times your dead before you hit the ground.

[BadAsh]

Personally, I don't like the radar ability. Before they consider having a Gal not show up how about making a cloaker not freaking show up?

Perhaps the radar should just be ditched and something better put in place:

Remove the radar completely but make "local" area alerts when a door gets hacked... say make it have a certain percentage chance to trip an alert with the odds favoring the hacker more for having the hacking cert and more still for having the adv hacking cert.

Now rather than every fewl on the map see the enemy sneaking in or driving/flying neadby you have a chance to actually sneak in... and have a chance to trip a specific silent (only alerts the base defenders) alert "Back door hacked and breached!" or "CC room door hacked and breached!" etc.

The radar eliminates cat and mouse type sneaking and ambush setting and just allows rush together and blast away tactics. Plus it gives away too much information... "Ground flood tower door hacked" would be a more fun alert as you would not know what exactly to expect... with the radar BS you see a MAX and an infantry guy... so you surge in with your HA while he is hacking and kill the hacker and then know EXACTLY where the MAX went for perfectly timed decimator hit and runs... where is the fun in that?

[Jagd]

Nah, the radar is good to have. You can still set up ambushes if you crouch walk, something always do until I know I've been detected after a hotdrop. I also think giving the Galaxy the Mosquito's special ability would be quite unbalanced. Having flown hundreds of successful paradrops the only time I've gotten into any serious trouble is when there've been 3 or more enemy aircraft defending the base and my gunners bailed before dealing with them.

[Incompetent]

Not neccesary, it just needs better guns and possibly a second version with the vehicle bay stripped out and more seats.

[Doppler]

Defenders get rolled over often enough WITH radar, lets not even talk about taking one of their few tools away from them.

[Veteran]

Maybe a support aircraft that creates a bubble around it in which everything is radar-invisible, but still visible to the eye. The bubble could be about the size of a tower's SOI, or somewhat smaller.

[BadAsh]

Defenders get rolled over often enough WITH radar, lets not even talk about taking one of their few tools away from them.

I think defenders get rolled mainly because they get Zerged. Seeing 50,000 dots does you no good if you have 8 guys defending. Yeah, you know it's coming, but what they hell are you going to do about it? lol

Where it comes into play is when the numbers are few, but even on both sides... say 10 on 10. The defenders have a HUGE advantage by seeing every enemy movement. I can't tell you how many kills I've gotten because I KNEW the enemy was there and just maneuvered behind for the easy kill. So much for stalking each other or heaven forbid... actual scouting... you know... post a few guys on the walls to LOOK for the enemy... or have a few aircraft scouting around... At least make the defeders deploy motion sensors or use audio amp to get a short range radar benefit. But showing the whole SOI down to the very last infiltrator is just a bit much IMHO.

[Liquidtide]

Hey! If a Magrider can not have a radar image I don't see why a Gal can't, save maybe it's shear size.

Why don't Mags show up on radar?

On a slightly differnt note, has anyone else's radar been buggy this week, people not showing up freindlies and enemies? I was standing right next to a VS trooper and no red mark on my map, even with Audio Amp on. Very frustrating becasue that the reason I have audio amp.

[Vis Armata]

How can you really say that? Their practicly an endangered species because every tom dick and harry has a buggy or a MBT, so what incentive is there to take a gal, well a good insertion, but thats kinda negated by the fact that when you do overflight in a gal everyone knows your comign so a lot of times your dead before you hit the ground.

Not true. A good Galaxy drop and entry into the base or tower gets 10 people (MAXes and all) into position which might take 15-30 minutes of fighting to achieve by ground troops. If the paratroops know what to do, drops work quite well. Not all drops end in success (some are miserable failures), but they work more often than not.

I understand your thinking, but I think it would make Galaxies a little too good at what they're already good at: circumventing defenses and inserting troops where needed.

[Queensidecastle]

Most of the time when my outfit does coordinated Gal drops, it makes no difference whatsoever if we are on radar or not. The tower is ours as is the case with most good Gal drops. Gals are also tough enough to withstand attacks from the air and AA MAXs to get the job done and were made that way because its plainly obvoius one is coming with or without radar

[Firefly]

It doesn't need radar. Since the dawn of the paratrooper in modern combat, every soldier coming out of a glider, chopper or plane has had to worry about his aircraft being spotted. An aircraft that big with that sort of engine emissions has no chance in hell of ever being stealthed.

But it's quite funny that you mentioned the troops. I only recall a handful of times that I've been killed upon landing. Perhaps it's the pilot's shitty LZ-choosing. Or maybe the troops hopping out need to undertake the BWC (http://www.theblackwidowcompany.net) Air Assault training course.

[SlyMarbo]

Hows this for an Idea?

New Vehicle More Akin to a flying Deliverer

Crew: 1 pilot, 2 gunners, 4 passengers
Weapons Systems 4 wingmount 25mm cannons Pilot Operated, 2 20mm Rear Angeled and sidemounted recoiless chainguns, max speed 80 KPH + AB, Moderate Armor, Null Radar signiture, Average Handling.

Boom V-22 Osprey of the Future, Remove the Option for having rear door open and a huge Door gunner, Replace the Chain gun pod with wingmount cannons. Realworld Solutions adapted for your gaming Pleasure

[Incompetent]

Yes, because theres no reason to have a ground vehicle if you don't have an air vehicle to make it completely obsolete.

[SlyMarbo]

of course that is the way of life

[SlyMarbo]

then again you miss a key point we're talking an aircraft with armor akin to that of a reaver, Ever try flying those into anything even remotely covered in heavy AA (heavens forbid a dedicated squad of VS SAMs and Skyguards) and try to slow down for an effective drop? and if that doesn't satisfy you give the Del null radar sig and increase the speed to make it more like RL APCs. Heck increase it's amphib speed as well.

[Incompetent]

The reaver has more armor then my god damned tank, so thats a useless arguement, and if you fly at ceiling nothing is going to touch you anyways. Lets just not fuck around with stupid overpowered air vehicles and add/improve ground vehicles.

[Professor Frink]

I think it would be a descent idea. Whenever there is a gal drop, the attackers are quickly destroyed because everyone sees em coming. Rarely is it sucessful in my experience.

[SlyMarbo]

What tank you driving a Lightning? A reaver only seams to have Higher Armor due to the fact that it is an Aircraft with good manuverability. we take away its manuverabilty and dock it speed and it is toast and don't give me that about flying ceiling as other than the Hand held gear the stuff can hit you.

[SlyMarbo]

heck i got an idea add a whole slew of new "overpowered" aircraft and require a new cert for them, with prerq. aircav and Airsupport to get it, call it Adv Aeronautics

[Biohazzard56]

Nawh gals have high armor, they dont need anti-radar capabilities. It would be a bit too much.

[Incompetent]

Let me make this very clear, cert cost has jack shit to do with balance. The thing about aircraft, they have ALL of the advantages, there fast, they have heavy firepower, they're maneuverable and they have heavy armor, there has to be a tradeoff somwhere. and don't say tech plant, they're fast enough to fly in from off cont without much if any hastle.

Now the Galaxy fills a tactical niche, it provides air insertion capability for assault infantry, and it has extreme disadvantages to counteract this, it handles like a pig, is undergunned, hard to aqquire and draws attention. It does not fill the sunderers niche, which is assault transport and heavy fire support with it's 75s. Now, this... thing has better guns, better speed, better handling, comprable if not superior armor, superior firepower, superior transport capacity AND is stealth. It's equal or better in every respect, and has the advantage that it can also pretty much ignore most groundfire which would destroy Deliverers, such as Vanguards.

[Doppler]

It doesn't need radar. Since the dawn of the paratrooper in modern combat, every soldier coming out of a glider, chopper or plane has had to worry about his aircraft being spotted. An aircraft that big with that sort of engine emissions has no chance in hell of ever being stealthed.


Actualy sheer size has nothing to do with it, the stealth bomber is a big fragging thing. But thats a real world example and thats not normally something i bring into planetside. I'm not saying i want the thing cloaked i'm saying I want it stealthed, so guys on the roof still see it and call out warning.

[Duffman]

Let me make this very clear, cert cost has jack shit to do with balance. The thing about aircraft, they have ALL of the advantages, there fast, they have heavy firepower, they're maneuverable and they have heavy armor, there has to be a tradeoff somwhere. and don't say tech plant, they're fast enough to fly in from off cont without much if any hastle.

DO you forget that AA maxs own adn AV maxs dont? IT is nearly impossible to fly over a NC/VS base with out getting destroyed

[Incompetent]

So don't be a moron and fly over a base, fly around, when was the last time you saw someone drive through a fully defended courtyard. and the whole immune to mines thing is a nice bonus too.

[SlyMarbo]

Don't make me laugh Incompetent you think the reaver has heavier or eagual armor to a Galaxy. I gave the vehicle i designed the same Handling as a Liberator and no explosive weapons what so ever. the weapons i posted were air to air only and unless you hover and shoot at something for a while near worthless. the fact your so miffed about The Armor means you don't know how to target an aircraft worth (four letter explitive)

[Incompetent]

I was comparing it to the deliverer moron, and 25/20mm cannons absolutely rape armor and infantry. The galaxies guns are ineffective because it's too hard to concentrate them, but two of them firing at the same target are murder.

[ChewyLSB]

There's also the fact that it doesn't really make sense... the way that Stealth Bombers work is the fact that they basically don't have a tail. This was first discovered in 1945 by a German Bomber (the HO-445 I believe... the number's wrong though) that was basically the first Stealth Bomber. It was designed as a big flying wing, and, by sheer luck, the inventors discovered that it had a fairly weak radar signal. This is due to the fact that there's no tail wing. If the war had gone on to 1946, Germany would have most likely dropped a nuclear bomb on New York. Of course, you can say "Well we would have dropped a bomb on them first! Remember Hiroshima? You are such a n00b." Not true... the German's were developing a plane that would use Wire-Guided rockets that could EASILY destroy the American plane that was used for delivering the Atomic Bomb. This would have been done before the HO-445 was. Also, there was the Volksjager which could down any british or American plane.

But I digress... the point is is that some war buffs would probably point out that this doesn't make any sense...

[SlyMarbo]

LOL don't make me count the ways in which my entire family could contradict you
-whole line of male military members/buffs-

[Jagd]

Oyoyoi. Marbo, not everyone wants the game to be dominated by air power which is probably why you guys won't see eye-to-eye. Personally, I'd love some new aircraft but then again I'm also the type of pilot who knows when to ditch my plane and do some grunt work on the ground. Pilots tend to get a bad rap in Planetside because too many them are totally focussed on kill spam, rather than using their Reavers for what is really needed-- taking out enemy aircraft first, enemy armor second, and only worrying about infantry when there is nothing bigger to kill.

[SlyMarbo]

I was comparing it to the deliverer moron, and 25/20mm cannons absolutely rape armor and infantry. The galaxies guns are ineffective because it's too hard to concentrate them, but two of them firing at the same target are murder.

20mm rape armor do they? the reaver is a twin 20mm and you let one sit there and shoot a tank dead on for a while and tell me if from the time it started to stopped you don't think you could have brought it down. If you can't then practice your aiming i can down a reaver with a freak'n flail i don't know about you. Ok i'll dropp it down to 2 25 mils on wing and 2 passaners hows that? the 25 doesn't rape unless your down low. The 35 is murder i'll admit.. but i didn't use that now did i? now as for the 20mm if you think about how they are set up they can't dual target they have a 90* radius with a 180* verticle firing zone. That leaves a central blindspot runing the length of the aircraft begining at the guns, at all firing angles. It's speed is the same as that of the galaxy. It is slightly more manuverable, equal to that of the Liberator, But that is due to it's smaller size. The lower armor would make it absolutly useless for High combat drops as in order to set up it would get Annihalated. The Purpose is to have an Insertion craft for smaller teams that can deploy it's cargo then maintian minor Close Air support in hostile territory away from allied support. the null signiture would be to allow the aircraft to survive long enough to make it behind enemy lines and deploy into the facinity of enemy automated fortifications. The aircraft would not have superior armor to a deliverer ever seen how many full on rocket barrages a del can take? how many a grounded reaver can? that is where the armor is determined. anything else is piloting skill.

[Jagd]

You know, you're arguing about something irrelevant since there will never be a new aircraft in PS that is built to the specifications of one Sgt.SlyMarbo, Drill Instructor for the Blackhawks Air Division. Thanks though, we have all wanted an airborne deliverer for months and months.

[SlyMarbo]

i'm using toned down mill specs that spawned actual real world aircraft (don't rag on me on "this isn't the real world" when i say toned down it is heavily toned down, look at the full capabilities of the Russian Hind Helicpter and you'll see what i had to start with) and equipment. Not only aircraft. And i'm a drill instructor and a member of the Air division not instructor for it. if your air division i'd hope you graduated our boot camp allready. ;)

[SlyMarbo]

And as for ground pounding watch for me in your DL sometimes.. if i'm not beamer sniping outside of it.

[Doppler]

Chewy a couple of questions for your bullshit scenario? Is in development the same as in production? No? What whould nuking new york accomplish? Not a lot by that point in the war. Where whould they launch this mythical strike from?

[Doppler]

Anyway back on target before playing My virtual Cock is biggerest. Were not going to worry about real world aircraft for the moment untill i get my sam sites.

[ChewyLSB]

Ummm... let me think about that. The HO-445 had already been produced. It was tested, flown, and I believe even took down a B-29. Nuking New York would do one of the most important things... lessen the morale. What do you think the point of V-1 and V-2 Rockets Germany fired at London?

[SlyMarbo]

Screw the fact it could down a B-29! He had a point where in the (FLE) are they going to launch this mithical strike from? The HO-445 did not have the range to make that sort of crossing and come back. So what if you can bring down a B- 29, big (FLE)ing deal the thing is a fling whale, your average fukawulf could do that. Also the H0-445 was not large enough to carry a nuclear weapon of that time it didn't have the cargo capacity nor the lift potential for lugging a pre-plutonium nuclear device. the HO-445 also was no match for the P-51 mustang and other fighter aircraft. The Rockets of that period were also unable to cary said payloads as again they lacked the carying potential. Rocket launchable Nuklear weapons were not feasable till the 50s. if the V-1 or V-2 rockets were to be loaded with Nuclear warhead it would no longer have the range to remove the payload far enough away to prevent the destruction of the launch site.

[SlyMarbo]

BTW and so you guys don't complain I'm very fond of TLAs

TLA = Three Letter Acronyms
FLE = four letter explative
BTW = By the Way
WTH = What the Hell
WTF = do i really have to translate?

[ChewyLSB]

You're right, the current one didn't have enough fuel to make the flight and back. However, a second version was in development that would have been thicker and would have had enough fuel to make the flight and back. It would have been done before 1946.

[EarlyDawn]

Not neccesary, it just needs better guns and possibly a second version with the vehicle bay stripped out and more seats.That'd be nice.

[Doppler]

You're right, the current one didn't have enough fuel to make the flight and back. However, a second version was in development that would have been thicker and would have had enough fuel to make the flight and back. It would have been done before 1946.

Too bad it still didnt have the payload to carry that era's nuclear bomb, Plus again i ask you, what whould this have accomplished, america whould not have pulled out of the war, we whould have lost some of our production, but defense department planners wisely put most of our critical production (tanks and planes mostly) in the interior of the country. I.E Omaha and elsewhere, so yes you kill a lot of people, ok what does that accomplish other then having us do things to the german people that make the Russian offensive look like a tea party.