New Space Plan Today

[Hamma]

I know its all election year crap, but bush plans ot unviel a new space plan today with plans to go to the moon and mars.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/01/14/bush.space/index.html

:brow:

[ORANGE]

The original moon landing was fake hopefully this will make up for it......unless they stage it again

[Smaug]

Paintballboy please tell me you don't believe that crap.

Anyways, I hope mars mission actually happens, and its not just fluff for re-election.

[Setari]

honestly...how can you say it's fake....almost every hoax claim has been countered with scientific evidence...i had a link to a site that owned hoax claimers..ill see if i can find it

[Smaug]

here's one www.badastronomy.com

[Sputty]

I personally think it's just a way to get more votes

[Spider]

Wohoo! We can see if there is life on mars! I mean... screw the starving people! We need to know what's out there! Aka: Nothing!

[Rbstr]

Its very cool to be going to the moon again, then mars but he's just trying to get some glory, guess when the bill for the beginings of this is due? yes the right a year or two after his term (if he get reelected) is up. Hes just digging us into a whole with debt, but none of the problems created will happen is his term they are all carfully placed to hit just after his is up.

Its the same thing as the imigration thing, thats 1.2 million new votes he almost definently has. Its alos to save the Mexican Prez who promised Legal imigrants that have been here for 5 years don't get citizenship.

[Squick]

Waste of money, I will be extremely pissed if this directly raises my taxes.

[Hamma]

The original moon landing was fake hopefully this will make up for it......unless they stage it again
Most ignorant post ever.

Please never post again, idiot.

[Hamma]

Waste of money, I will be extremely pissed if this directly raises my taxes.
Waste of money to expand and explore eh? What kind of human are you? Move to another country if you dont like it. This is actually a good annoucment for a change, it's due time for this shit to happen again. Eventually we will fuck up this planet

[Onizuka]

I totally agree with Hamma on everything he's said in this thread. wtg

[Hamma]

I think this is one of the signs of the apocolypse? :lol:

[Onizuka]

:indeed: :p

[Setari]

it is a good idea i guess....did you read the article...original program cost 24 billion...which now would be.......100 billion dollars /puts pinky to mouth muahahahaha......sry bout that

[Spider]

As I said... That 100 billion could help most of the starving people of the world... but we feel the urge to explore the nothingness of the universe.

Waste of time and money in my opinion. They should find a way to clean up this planet before screwing with another.

[Onizuka]

The idea that our 100 bill would go straight to starving people desperately in need of it is glorious yet untrue.

[Sputty]

Spider, we send money to starving people, and it can only help so much. If you think just giving them money will fix it, you're wrong. If you're so worried I'm sure you can part with everything you own and use and send it to Africa

[Setari]

well we cant just throw cake at em and let em eat it..that would kill the starving ppl....would have to slowly build them up til we can throw cake at em and let em eat it

[Squick]

Waste of money to expand and explore eh? What kind of human are you? Move to another country if you dont like it. This is actually a good annoucment for a change, it's due time for this shit to happen again. Eventually we will fuck up this planet

It most certainly is a waste of money to spend such a vast amount of money to explore the barren, lifeless, useless expanse of NEAR SPACE. Comparably this would have been like the egyptian civilization sailing to the Galapagos Islands instead of spending resources elsewhere to become a great civilization. What do you really think is going to be on Mars? If there is or ever was life, it was not as advanced as us.

"Breaking News: Living Ameboa Found On Mars." And? I guess that means in the trillions of other stars, containing billions of planets just like ours there is likely advanced life out there. THAT took a genious seeing bacteria on Mars to conclude. I will bet my entire life's fortune that somewhere in the universe there is, or has been, life more evolved then humans.

Using conventional means to get to Mars will not bring us any closer to communicating with advanced ET life then we are now.

And your justifaction that that we will eventually fuck up the earth is almost as laughable as your implied proclamation that a requirement of being an American is drowning in excess while the streets starve. Spending copious amounts of money for excess while ignoring the most pressing issues in the world (running out of resources and polution to name two) is a darn good way to start.

It will be at least ten generations before the common human is ever in space regularly, and the advances in technology will be along a different path our conventional methods.

And lastly, someone before mentioned the advancements that come from space explorations that bleed into other fields. I can guarentee you the trillions of dollars put towards a *classified research* line on a budget in Congress is creating those very same technological advancements that you want. After the military refines it then we will get it. You can look no further then your car's GPS device for example, starting in 1964 and payed $12,000,000,000.00 to the military.

I can guarentee that if this ends up costing the average American $4,000 in tax raises it will never make it.

Squick

[Neon Apocalypse]

the signs of the apocalypse is bullshit, after 9/11 i thought it was the end of the world, or something like that, life goes on, the end of the world is fake shit

[Onizuka]

:rofl: I find irony in the above statement and your name.

[Spider]

I already part with more then 1000$ to charity every year (wich is more then most of you combined).

I understand that we can't feed em always I mean fuck... we could help them build a fricking civilisation instead of idly standing by. Create a workforce made of the unemployed and build over there instead of creating a big fucking tower made out of glass in the middle of New york.

I mean shit... alot of towns over there don't have shit to eat and even less water. We can easily fix that problem by building water plants, wells, power stations. It would create jobs and basic comfort.

As for crops we again have ways to make alot of crops grow. Teach them, help them at first and then they will be able to walk on their own. Many towns can't even get basic health care and here you have people with a shitload of money getting attention from 75 doctors because he cut his little finger off.

[Neon Apocalypse]

Just because my name is Neon Apocalypse doesn't mean that I believe in the apocalypse. In my opinion i thought that my name sounded cool, thats why I picked it. I also liked the thought of a nuclear war being neon colored, so that when it ended the earth would look much different, with neon colors in the sky. Thats why i picked it, not because i believe in the apocalypse.

[Onizuka]

I also liked the thought of a nuclear war being neon colored, so that when it ended the earth would look much different, with neon colors in the sky. Thats why i picked it, not because i believe in the apocalypse.

That is so fricken wrong :rofl:

priority check? :p

[EineBeBoP]

The desire to explore and understand is part of our character and that quest has brought tangible benefits that have improved our lives in countless ways,"

:rofl: he dosent know how to spell half thoes words! good thing he has a good speech writer.

[Neon Apocalypse]

shutup dude i just like the name, the thought of it to me brings a unique image.

[Onizuka]

I'm kidding :lol:

as in just playing around :p :p :p :p

[Red October]

I mean shit... alot of towns over there don't have shit to eat and even less water. We can easily fix that problem by building water plants, wells, power stations. It would create jobs and basic comfort.

As for crops we again have ways to make alot of crops grow. Teach them, help them at first and then they will be able to walk on their own.

Easier said than done....and it has been done. In my International Economics courses, the barriers to develop a nation are a little bigger than you think. Here's a sample of some of the problems....

In Qatar (some time ago) the US with the help of a University aided the country in setting up crops and becoming self sufficient. After they were left to thier own devices, the farmers discovered that they could make more $$$ by getting rid of the ag products and instead grow Qat...a kind of drug (of course they don't call it a drug in that country...despite every other Islamic Nation outlawing it as a narcotic). Food gone.

In many cases the small villages and towns are extremely wary of "new" methods of farming. They've been doing it thier way for thousands of years...no upstart young punk is going to tell the village elder how to farm. Numerous case's such as this.

Oh lets not forget the goodwill of the government we aid....who then takes the crops they produce, sell the equipment to other nations (for a very good discount since they got it free) and pockets the profits while thier people still starve...sometimes they get thrown out (coup...revolt) but the new government distrusts any government that aided thier previous one...as they just helped them get rich.

I say kudos for the space program...nor do I buy the 100 Billion dollars bit either. Technology has advanced, which means the trip will be cheaper now. If it is more expensive, then its because what their using now is highly more advanced and can return more info. As for no use....we can't mine this planet for minerals forever...and thier just happens to be a big chunk of iron orbiting our planet.

Plus we need something to replace the Space Shuttle. That program was significantly more expensive than what the Russians are using. The Shuttle Program was just a Cold War Era Space Program to show our superiority, its well worn out its use.

[Paingiver]

The human population is going to keep increasing no matter what, the more ways to spread out our population the better. :groovy:

[Spider]

Bah any neo-Hitler could fix that problem!

[Neon Apocalypse]

spider are you still in AC, because i would like to join

[Spider]

Yes I still am... how old are you?

[Hamma]

Ignorance is Bliss apparently.

[Squick]

Must be Hamma. You know I agree with you on 99% of everything else, but I can not believe you would go along with this preposterous delusion of Bush's.

[JetRaiden]

I'd cost the government more money to fake the landing then to actually do the landing. why the hell would they fake it anyway?

"Hee hee...this is so awesome, we're just in a fuckin movie studio in the middle of nowhere pretending we're on the moon."


I cant BELIEVE you guys believe that shit. I can oust anything you say against it with legit scientific evidence.

[Squeeky]

We have to escape the fucking gnomes! Wtf is wrong with you guys. if we don't establish a colony on the moon the gnomes will nford. k?

[Onizuka]

Your actin awefully strange on aim squeeky.

/me runs and hides.

[SDM]

I totally agree with Hamma on everything he's said in this thread. wtg
Ditto

[slytiger]

Why explore? Simple, because there are much more resources out there than there are on this little grain of sand we call earth. You peeps need to wake up and see that there are valuable resources in space that can be used to better life and we will do what is natural to us, explore and expand. Yes we could spend the money and go feed all of those people who are starving but what the hell are they gonna do after that, form a fully functional government and live together peacefully, bullshit. Untill all, and i mean ALL, of the major nations around the world come together and agree to work together to rid the world of criminals and poverty than that money spent on those starving peeps will be put to waist.

[Red October]

:bang:

[Peacemaker]

OH SHIT!!!! POLITICAL DEBATE!!!!! DAMN IT!
/me smashes the protective glass over the alarm button and smashes the alarm over and over.

[OneManArmy]

First let me add to this little gem of a topic by adding this quote from Clarence Darrow



When I was a boy in the country, one of the standard occupations was whittling. It became as mechanical as breathing. Since then I have decided that this is as good a way to live as any other. Life depends on the automatic taking in and letting out of breath, but in no way is it lengthened or made happier by deep thinking or wise acting. The one big word that stands over courts and other human activities is FUTILITY.
"How to Pick A Jury" (1936)



Now adding to that squick you talk about the Egyptians. Does not every great Civilization fall? Where is that great empire now? Under the sand. For all we know they could of sailed to the islands and become a great civilization because of it. either way the outcome was the same. For that matter I would have to bring up all the explorers you learn about in class. No doubt there were tons of poor people in Europe at the time of Columbus but hey they didn't have a problem dumping money into those explorations (and really here I'm talking about ALL the explorers around Columbus�s time).

And honestly to sit here and feed the poor today only puts off the problems to tomorrow.

Then you ramble on about some ET stuff..

I found this interesting
Using conventional means to get to Mars will not bring us any closer to communicating with advanced ET life then we are now.

That�s not true, someone has to make the first steps somewhere, albeit however small.

Moving on.. We will [are] damaging the earth. I mean are you blind? We as humans require vast amounts of recourses and in return produce vast amounts of wastes. Pure logic in numbers shows it�s only a matter of time before we exhaust supply here and the wastes become too great.


But I guess I'm more of an idealist. I'll leave being pragmatic up to you :)

[Hamma]

OH SHIT!!!! POLITICAL DEBATE!!!!! DAMN IT!
/me smashes the protective glass over the alarm button and smashes the alarm over and over.
naw this isnt really political, It's just debate over if we should explore space or not. :p Everyone has an opinion on this subject

[ORANGE]

Smaug: Paintballboy please tell me you don't believe that crap.

Anyways, I hope mars mission actually happens, and its not just fluff for re-election.

No I don't.
Hamma: Most ignorant post ever.

Please never post again, idiot.

And as for you Hamma don't make me start in on the facial hair thing again

[Hamma]

Personal attacks will make you look much better, please go ahead :rofl:

[Happy lil Elf]

The space program has always payed for itself many times over. And really? How would the money be better spent? On more social programs that don't really work?

As far as taxes go if anything you're going to see your taxes raise because of Medicare and social security or other bloated social programs. NASA's budget is so tiny in hardly even shows up in a pie chart of the federal Budget. Hardly a tax raising issue.

Sending 100 billion to starving counties wouldn't do all that much for them and trying to "build a civilization" is probably about as hard if not harder than getting human life to exist on Jupiter- nearly impossible. Third world countries often don't even want to change. People as a whole tend to hate and fear change and the more archaric the culture the greater that hate and fear generally is. Building a 3rd world country up into a advanced society tends to involve more change than most people can comprehend. It's not a matter of "Here ya go! Here's some cash and some plans! Welcome to civilized life!". Throwing money at problems that are of a societal nature generally doesn't do a whole lot to resolve them.

P.S. Spider, you don't get a say in how we spend our taxes. You're not going to go explore space. We are ;)

P.P.S. I'll believe your charitable contributions as soon as you show me the news article on that shooting you were involved in at your 200K/year warehouse rent-a-cop job ;)

[JetRaiden]

After the completion of the ISS, I think this is a great idea to get full structures on the moon to act as a chokepoint for interplanetary travel. The only thing that bothers me is how it says the sooned we could launch a mission to Mars is 2030. WTF?!?! To built a craft, train astronauts, set up for launch, and fire away, how the hell would that take 26 years? Anyway, I think more money should be invested in space travel, especially for cilivian organizations. Companies like Lockheed and Airbus are already designing possible spacecrafts, we just need to fund them.

[Mr1337Duck]

We have to expand ourselves, America is not content to stand in one place, we are always evolving. By the end of my life, I expect us to have put people past Saturn, and sent probes to other systems. I expect us to have better fuel systems, ways to preserve our life while we make long journey's through space.

By 2200, we should be sending people out of our solar system, maybe put people in other systems. Wouldn't it be lovely to have reincarnation? Ah well.

[ORANGE]

Hamma: Personal attacks will make you look much better, please go ahead
That doesn't go with the flow of the thread hamma lets try staying on topic

[Dharkbayne]

Neither does making fun of old beardo. BTW, Neon, it's called a JOKE. :p

Anyfuck, Back on topic!

[Manitou]

America is destined to mine the moon and charge large sums of money for the raw materials they sell to the rest of the earth, which by that time will be depleted. We will in time become the Terran Republic and all your bases are belong to us.

I am totally down with the space program - go NASA!!! :groovy:

[Dharkbayne]

:rofl:

[JetRaiden]

wts nooooo!!! If there was some kind of war over the moon, say, between us and china, it would be pretty cool if it was on the moon, because you can just watch the whole war on a telescope.

[Spider]

By the time were living on mars hell... the moon! I'm gonna be the next hitler! </sarcasm>

[Happy lil Elf]

Kill anyone shotgun wielding masked criminals lately, Spider? </sarcasm>

[Seer]

I'm glad nasa has a new mission. "Smaller, better, cheaper" was the most uninspiring, counterproductive crap I can imagine.

[Spider]

Kill anyone shotgun wielding masked criminals lately, Spider? </sarcasm>

Got that surgery to get your head out of your ass yet?

[Cyanide]

I for one am all for increasing NASA's budget. We went from going to the moon 30 years ago to making shuttle runs back and forth to the edge of the atmosphere. NASA has been responsible for many of the best inventions and technologies ever consieved. A base on the moon and a man on mars is not all that would come of this project. The advances in science that will be needed for this stuff to happen could change the world.

Those of you who think that spewing a 100 billion dollars into the 3rd would countries of the world would be a better use of this money are just uninformed.

First of all, it takes a lot more than 100 billion dollars to get a country off the ground. It takes political stability. It takes public schools. It takes land rich in some natural resources. The most developed countries in the world didn't get there through dumb luck. They were founded in places that foster a productive civilization. The US is a world superpower because we've had a very stable government for a long time and A LOT of natural resources to exploit. Our country is already capable of producing enough food to feed most of the worlds population. We're PAYING farmers NOT to use all of their land because if they did, the supply of food in this country would out pace the country's demand 100 times over. We might be able to export some of the raw produce to starving countries, but the stuff only has so long of a shelf life. Not to mention the fact that these countries can't pay for it, but they can't get an economy going until they can support more healthy people, which they can't do without more food (nasty cycle aint it). The REAL solution to the starvation problem is being able to effectively farm food in very harsh enviroments. Problem is that that's not a major problem in developed countries. So therefore, we don't put much money into funding research for it. Oh wait, guess what I just thought of. The moon is a pretty harsh enviroment. So is Mars. How the fsck are we going to get food to the moon? We'll probably have to grow it there. Which means we'll have to research new ways of growing things in harsh enviroments. Bet you never thought that NASA building a moon station could HELP the worlds hunger problem.

To anyone that thinks the moon landing was a hoax. Get your stupid ass to a big telescope and point it at the moon. The landers, the flag, the moon buggy, all of that stuff is still there, and you can see it with a telescope.

This kind of stuff is the stuff that makes a civilization great. Nobody thinks a civilization is great because they've done things that somebody did before them. Nobody says the Egyptians were great because they solved the worlds hunger problems. They were great because they built the great pyramids. They were great because of their advancements in art and science. Same with the Greeks and the Romans. The Egyptians marked the world with the pyramids, the greeks with the parthanon, the Romans with the coliseum, and - if near sided fools don't interfere - the Americans with the first man made structure on a celestial body other than earth.

[SDM]

http://www.latimes.com/includes/ramirez/ramirez_20040106.gif

[Cyanide]

http://www.latimes.com/includes/ramirez/ramirez_20040106.gif

Solution...

Send mexican robots.

[Octavian]

Apparently all this crap is going to cost 1 trillion dollars. Half the world's debt. But if all goes to plan, we'll be floating in space playing our computers. Hopefully they have incredibly low ping on the Moon. -1 billion ping.

[1024]

He says these plans, but he's not going to be able to put them into effect. He isn't going to get re-elected. He gets elected and look what happens, the Terrorist Wars start up. Yes, i know that it might not of been his fault, and he just ended up being the one president that had to deal with it, but the gen public isn't going to think that deep. They're stupid.

[Octavian]

Exactly, expect this to never happen or in a few hundred years time. This is the stuff of sci-fi. We can't have just been doing only 50+ years of space exploration and suddenly decide to live on the moon. This is not going to happen within the next 25 years or so.

[Hamma]

Solution...

Send mexican robots.
:rofl:

[Hamma]

He says these plans, but he's not going to be able to put them into effect. He isn't going to get re-elected. He gets elected and look what happens, the Terrorist Wars start up. Yes, i know that it might not of been his fault, and he just ended up being the one president that had to deal with it, but the gen public isn't going to think that deep. They're stupid.
You sound pretty sure he wont be re-elected :p

[Dharkbayne]

omfgwtfdoublepost :ban:

[Squick]

Well, because of this Hubble space telescope is going to die... Lovely, not like seeing something usefull was better then a handful of Mars rocks.

In a midday meeting at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., two days after President Bush ordered NASA to redirect its resources toward human exploration of the Moon and Mars, the agency's administrator, Sean O'Keefe, told the managers of the space telescope that there would be no more shuttle visits to maintain it.

Advertisement


A visit by astronauts to install a couple of the telescope's scientific instruments and replace the gyroscopes and batteries had been planned for next year. Without any more visits, the telescope, the crown jewel of astronomy for 10 years, will probably die in orbit sometime in 2007, depending on when its batteries or gyroscopes fail for good.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/17/science/17HUBB.html (You will need to register to view the whole article)

[Onizuka-GTO]

I hope nasa has giant transformable robots and shipsize planet killers as the next projects. hehe :lol:

[ZeusCali]

I hope nasa has giant transformable robots and shipsize planet killers as the next projects. hehe
^/\ dork
We talk about world hunger and bush and space travel and you pull in with mechs and planet killers? LoL
i Like the OGOnizuka, more... nuff said

btw my opinions:
-Bush won't be reelected and if he does the whole world will feel sorry for america,
-Space Travel over Hunger, Because You guys have a point especially the deal with moon bases solve world hunger,
-Hamma Has Super Powers Fear the Hamma!(he can post 10 times in a row and none of us can say anything about it ...or else <banned 3x>)

:-\ wth is the deal? a mexican land rover would have fingers? ...o wait nvm just got it lol alien border hoper, jump and fly over(just don't try that on the moon LoL)

[JetRaiden]

guys the government has 7 trillion dollars plus so its really not much of a matter to afford it. It could get done, but not for a llllooonnnggg time.

[MaeWyn]

Question for you Spider, if Countries like the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Spain, hell even Greece can pull themselves out of a rut with LITTLE help from the outside. How come these other supposedly "starving" countries can't?

[ZeusCali]

because they are setup countries with stable enough economies, resources in their borders and politcal stability, unlike the starving countries

[sutserikeru]

Most ignorant post ever.

Please never post again, idiot.
OWNED

[OneManArmy]

zeus is right, It takes more than money to make a stable country. main thing is you need rescources and a political system that doesnt involve AK-47's.

[Spider]

because they are setup countries with stable enough economies, resources in their borders and politcal stability, unlike the starving countries

My thoughts exactly.