Weapon certfication costs

[Jagd]

Well since the devs have gone and bundled vehicle and MAX certs to give us more options, I've been thinking that the current cost of weapon certs is hard to justify. Heavy Assault, for example, should really not cost as much as Air Cavalry since a Reaver is a far more powerful and versatile killing machine than the MCG, Lasher or even the Jackhammer. There also seems to be a widespread feeling of dissatisfaction with the cost and usefullness of Anti-Vehicular weapons when compared with Special Assault. I am proposing the following changes be made to weapon cert costs:

Medium Assault - 2 certs
Sniping - 2 certs
Anti-Vehicular - 2 certs
Special Assault - 3 certs
Heavy Assault - 3 certs

Basically any of the certs that only afford access to one, single purpose weapon have been reduced, while the versatile and well-balanced certs (Medium & Special Assault) remain the same.

EDIT: Crap, why didn't the poll thingie come up? Ah well, I guess just post your opinion on these changes.

[BadAsh]

I'd like to see that happen as well. Further I'd like to see a "Uni" package of all the small arms weapons. Call it "Weapons Specialist" and have it include any weapon you can carry for 10 cert points.

UniMAX cut having all 3 MAX units from 8 down to 5 cert points.

Weapons Specialist would cut 15 (12 points with JADG's suggestion) points down to 10.

My reasoning is that a soldier needs engineering and basic medical just to repair himself as a basic survival need. Add a Rexo to that and you've spent a LOT on non-weapons stuff to just be a grunt and have a chance to survive.

With the current cert cost you can't get every weapon, rexo, and the needed basic eigineering and basic medical... even at BR20 you don't have enough cert points... this is forgoing any vehicle and hacking and no advanced certs...

[SecondRaven]

/me agrees

[Rbstr]

don't make HA 3 points thats a very bad idea. the rest i agree with.

the uni wepon would be cool becaue i have MA-2, Sniping - 3, and AV - 3, at br 20(one BR) i could get all the wepons

[MuNsTeR]

make equipment certs a big bundle w/ all of them for like 10 certs

[WritheNC]

I'll take a unified assault certification.

Sniper, HA, Med, Spec assault, AV, are all 15 certs total.

Gimme all of them for 12 and I'd be more than happy. Saving even 3 certs is huge.

[Cauldron Borne]

How 'bout uni specialist certs? any of the speciality certs (med, engi, hack) and the adv version for 4 certs. that would cut down on the certs, and most people who have one of these has it's adv version anyway. I don't think a uni weap cert is a good idea, though. It would turn into a one man army sort of thing. Not exactly what the game is about. The other stuff is way cool, though. You might want to keep HA as is, or there'd be n00bs runnin 'round spammin' the air w/ rounds. It would do more harm than good.

[Incompetent]

No, vehicle and max bundling was to encourage the use of underused or downright ignored equipment, leave the weapon certs the way they are now. Maybe bump AV down to two.

[Ait'al]

See Hamma i told you where this would go. DIDNT I!!!!

[BadAsh]

It would turn into a one man army sort of thing. Not exactly what the game is about.

Naw it would not. A foot soldier can hardly hold his own against vehicles and even in a Rexo you can only equip 2 rifles and 2 pistils (and these are going to be a BANK and Med App or a REK) So really your "one man army" can only have 2 effective weapons at any given time.

You would not give foot soldiers any more direct power, you'd just give them more options. On the other hand a "pure" pilot can have several very powerful vehicles and does not need as much support certs (like medical). For 10 certs I can get:

Reaver
Mosquito
Lightning
Harrasser
Vanguard/Prowler/Magrider
Flail

And all I'd need was basic engineering to keep all that going. At BR20 that would leave me with 10 certs to grab some miscellaneous stuff... say lets get adv hacking so you can always hack a vehicle... that leaves 5 certs left!!! Oh want the heck lets get UniMAX too... lol

Now just compare the versitility and raw power of the 2 builds "foot infantry Rambo" vs. "Super Joe Pilot"... Super would win any outdoor engagement easily and any indoor engagement where Rambo did not equip himself with a decimator... at that point I'd give Rambo the odds, say 60/40, to beat Super Joe.

Vehicles are the power base of this game (regarding individual effort, teamwork is the real power). My KPH went up a lot when I picked up a Mosquito and ditched my ATV cert... Now I go from point A to point B very quickly and get a few "free" kills along the way... indantry Rambos caught in the open are easy kills that take almost no effort to achieve. I almost feel bad... almost :)

[Rayder]

You can't compare vehicles to infantry. It's like comparing apples to oranges and calling oranges red. Vehicles are ment to dominate infantry, not the other way around. "Super Joe Pilot" should always own "Foot Infantry Rambo." Besides, you can only use one vehicle at any given time, and only 3 vehicles on that list are available all the time.

[BadAsh]

You can't compare vehicles to infantry. It's like comparing apples to oranges and calling oranges red. Vehicles are ment to dominate infantry, not the other way around. "Super Joe Pilot" should always own "Foot Infantry Rambo." Besides, you can only use one vehicle at any given time, and only 3 vehicles on that list are available all the time.

Um... my point was directly addressing a game balance issue... it was stated that a foot soldier having a better selection of weapons would somehow unbalance the game by being a "one man army". That's simply not the case... because um... there are these things called vehicles and MAX units...

And your vehicle availability comment... um, SO? Give me a lowly "Mossy" and you can be infantry with any weapon configuration you want... I guarantee that I will kill you in less than a second 10 out of 10 times. So no matter what weapon you die clutching� no one can really call that �overpowering� or claim that the dead infantry soldier was somehow a �one man army�.

And to your statement about only being able to use one vehicle at a time... BINGO... the same applys to Rambo there... he can only possibly tote around 2 different weapons... so again... how is this overpowering?

I hope my point is clear now.

[Ait'al]

PLEASE JUST LET IT END!!!! Please make it stop or petition for the ending of the recert :tear:


Edit: After this little change to PS, what will be the point of certs or experience in the game!! (wich would also include BR and CR) HUH HUH HUH HUH HUH HUH!!!!

[BadAsh]

PLEASE JUST LET IT END!!!! Please make it stop or petition for the ending of the recert :tear:


Edit: After this little change to PS, what will be the point of certs or experience in the game!! (wich would also include BR and CR) HUH HUH HUH HUH HUH HUH!!!!

You are right 100%! Allowing the Rexo/HA/MA/SA/Eng/Med also snipe would clearly end PS as we know it... certs = useless and none cound stand in the face of this overpowered game ruining RAMBO. Might as well do away with certs and let everyone use everything is that is allowed!

Drama meets sarcastic Drama ;)

The game did not end when the new cert bundles came out and you got a free Mossy with the purchase of a reaver... the game won't end if infantry gets a bundle as well.

[DeadTeddy]

look, the idea behind BR's is that you can't get all the certs you want. it forces people to chose a role and to work as a team. so you have 5 grunts, a support guy with gal/APC/AMS/engi certs, an inf hacker/saboteur, and some drivers in a squad.

the reason veichles were bundled is quite easy to understand. almost nobody got a skeeter cert if they could get a reaver. nobody got an enforcer if they could use a lightning and get the kills for themselves. nobody got a deliverer if they could get a sund. things like that. in order to get more veichles on the battlefield they bundled up all the certs giving players the ability to chose in real time what they previously chose in the cert term.

MAX suits have a different problem. people preffered to get one and use it for all purposes instead of wasting 6 or 8 certs. not to mention AA maxes suck and AV maxes are only good for killing other maxes.

infantry doesn't have this problem. you see all the weapons in the field. grouping it will allow too much choice and a player could be an inf + rexo + HA + unimax + CE + AV.

only thing about certs that I would like to see is a "forget all" button you can use every 72 hours but you can still unlearn things every 24. I also would like to see those 24 hours cut down to 22 because many times you login, forget a cert, play, return next day, see 20 min left, go play, unlearn after 2 hours and end up unlearning things every 26 hours.

[BadAsh]

look, the idea behind BR's is that you can't get all the certs you want.

That would work except that this bundle or cert cost reduction would not allow you to get everything. It would just allow you to use all of the small arms weapons and have basic survival certifications.

At BR20 you can have a total of 23 certification points. Currently you can load out the following build:

MA � 2 points
HA � 4 points
SA � 3 points
AV � 3 points
Sniper � 3 points
Rexo � 3 points

To survive more than 1 fight you need
Basic engineering � 3 points
Basic medical � 3 points

That�s 24 points so you can almost get this now. Something needs to be ditched, let�s say sniper or AV which are the least universally usable certifications. This leaves you with 2 points open. The choice here is ATV? AMS? Or up your support certs to adv med or perhaps get CE. Personally I�d get the AMS and be my own support guy. Talk about the SOLO action king� Of course the real SOLO king is an Air Cavalry pilot that captures an �out of the way� air tower for infinite repairs and reloads� the true 4 cert point one man show�

So by BR20 you have a very powerful infantry build and are missing only 1 weapon certification. I don�t see the harm is letting someone get that last weapon certification. What I currently do is switch out Sniper/AV every other day or so. It�s kind of a hassle, but it�s manageable.

[SpunkJackel]

To bundle cert points so that a grunt could have more abilities is very sketchy.

AS of now I usually have a grunt with ADV HACK/ENG/MED/REXO/MA/HA/SA

Basically anything that gets thrown at me I can dispose of and then take a short rest to repair and heal. Then once at 100% in a mater of seconds I can get back to the battle. Plus any functioning term I come across I can hack and then rearm myself. Not to mention towers fall in a matter of seconds. Only down side to this set up is that I don't have a transport of my own which reduces my mobility. Two have 2-3 extra cert points would be sweet for me as I could now get a vech and basically do what ever I wanted and depend on no one.

But this is kind of BS in a team based game such as PS. It's already pretty fricken stupid that a Heavy Weapon user such as my self is able to heal and repair my own armor. I mean, a medic on the field usually aint the guy who is also armed with a bazooka and fully auto 50 cal. machine gun. The medic is the poor sap keeping his head down scrambling for wounded soldier to wounded soldier.

Soon I will be forgetting my MED cert and getting ADV Regen again so I can get a transport. This will effectively mean I will need no one in a game that is supposed to be based around working as a team. Doesn't seem right to me...

[Ait'al]

Your forgeting one other thing here. There going to add more BR and possibly one day more certs so you wont be able to get everything to be a weapons specialist, maybe. Being a specialist doesnt mean you have everything if just means you have it specifically.

[Gigabein]

What about a "Basic Grunt" bundle? Medic (3), Engineer (3), Medium Assault (2) for 5 certs. Total savings = 3 certs. Not too over-whelming and provides versatility for all types of infantry... you can build off it with various weapon certs and advanced support.

Keep in mind that
a) Unimax (5) is currently the most expensive bundle and
b) that none of the existing bundles include more than 3 vehicle certs.

[Ait'al]

NOOOO!!! Because thats an entire character design!! ATV is 4 vehicles and so are tank and buggy ones, remember you can steal them!!

[Majik]

What about a "Basic Grunt" bundle? Medic (3), Engineer (3), Medium Assault (2) for 5 certs. Total savings = 3 certs.

Actually, if you were going to make a bundle with support certs, it would make more sense to bundle all the basic levels together. Medic+Engineer+Hacking for 6 certs instead of 9. You would still have to pay 2 certs per advanced skill, and you would see more grunts with support skills.

[Veteran]

Yah, 15 certs for Adv Hax/Adv Med/Adv Eng is punitive.

If you're willing to give up One Man Army, you shouldn't have to give it all up.

[Ait'al]

That would be overpowering!!! then everyone could do everything. Doesnt this game play better when theres more variaty in what characters do instead of when they can all do the same roles. Am i missing something.

[EarlyDawn]

Combat Medic
Medium Assault
Medical
Advanced medical
5 points

Battle Mechanic
Medium Assault
Engineering
4 points

System Subversion
Medium Assault
Hacking
Advanced Hacking
5 points

Unconventional Warfare
Special assault
Hacking
Bandoleer 1 point item if they ever put it in
5 Points

Thoughts? I'd also like to see some more "out there" bundles like an armor and a weapon or a vehicle and armor.

[Ait'al]

I still dont understand why you want to bundle shit in this game. You take away from half hte point of the game. That being the specialty of someone sacrificing to use something like medic or hacking over the all to overwhelming weapons specialist etc.

[Majik]

That would be overpowering!!! then everyone could do everything. Doesnt this game play better when theres more variaty in what characters do instead of when they can all do the same roles. Am i missing something.

Not quite everything, you would still need to spend the same points to get the advanced levels and do the more usefull functions of each role. I could see a support package actually making the average player more team oriented as they might pick up support skills that they wouldn't have bothered with cause it would have meant they would have to give up their empires big gun to get it.

[Incompetent]

Come to think of it (mind changing credit goes to LNS), it might be a good idea to put in some Rexo bundles, not some uber all weapons thing, but like bundle AV, Rexo and MA for six certs. Or sniper and medical for 5 certs, no weaponry only bundles, just with armor or support certs to encourage the least used ones, and no HA bundles.

Edit: and no SA bundles, as much as i love it, its probably too good a value as is.

[EarlyDawn]

Agreed on SA. Too much of a value as it is, I agree, should not be grouped. Rexo should be grouped with MA and sniping or Sniping and Medical. That'd be interesting.

Pathfinder
ATV
Rexo
Sniping
6 points

Insurgent
Sniping
Medical
4 points, or 5. Undecided

[Incompetent]

What about it being a sniping/med/harraser bundle, better fills the scouting role then ATV since he can also drop off a cloaker.

Edit: what about bundles that give only specific SA weapons, like a grenadier bundle that give you rexo/ma and just a thumper for five certs?

[Majik]

Come to think of it (mind changing credit goes to LNS), it might be a good idea to put in some Rexo bundles, not some uber all weapons thing, but like bundle AV, Rexo and MA for six certs.

I could see making a Boot Camp Bundle where you could get the Rexo and MA for 3 certs. Would play down the downfalls people think Rexo has. I would be against any bundles that included "specialty" weapons, which to me is anything other than the MA.

[Gigabein]

Actually, if you were going to make a bundle with support certs, it would make more sense to bundle all the basic levels together. Medic+Engineer+Hacking for 6 certs instead of 9. You would still have to pay 2 certs per advanced skill, and you would see more grunts with support skills.

True that would be a good idea. I was just addressing the original thread topic of helping out the average ground-pounding infantry-man.

[Mudflap]

I think that the more certs you allow people to have, without increasing the overall number of certs, decreases the differences between players. I have 2 players from each empire, and each one has a different set of cert combos, because I like to experiment with different playstyles.

Is it really a good idea to make snipers also capable of healing, repairing, fighting at close range, and have AV as well? If a single person can do everything, then everyone goes that route and becomes the same.

[EarlyDawn]

What about it being a sniping/med/harraser bundle, better fills the scouting role then ATV since he can also drop off a cloaker.

Edit: what about bundles that give only specific SA weapons, like a grenadier bundle that give you rexo/ma and just a thumper for five certs?Mmm, good thought.

Sharpshooting
Couldn't think up a better name
Medical
Sniping
Harasser (For a spotter or something)
5 points.

[DeadTeddy]

guys, the whole point is that you DON'T have medical + engi. you have one of them at most. this creates a need for dedicated medics that run around as infs reviving people.
you're not supposed to survive more then one battle if your fighting alone.

[EarlyDawn]

Oh. That's funny, because I was sure that Planetside was about building a character the way you want, without arbitrary stat restrictions. If they can get a setup that lets them solo effectively, who cares? What difference does an individual who can repair and heal himself make? Not much. He's also sacrificing other areas to act like that. He could drive a one-man tank. He chooses not to, he chooses to be a medic and engineer.

[BadAsh]

After reading through the various skill bundle suggestions here I�ve changed my opinion. There are just too many possibilities for bundles and they sound too much like a character class system that I�ve seen in RPG type games. I�m now leaning more towards JADG�s original idea of simply reducing the cert costs for a few of the weapons to free up a minor number of cert points for infantry based characters. With his suggestion, you�d save 3 cert points assuming you picked every single weapon cert. So when you max out at BR20 you will have spent 21 of your 23 cert points on weapons, armor, and basic self-support. This leaves you 2 cert points to get a lesser vehicle (ATV, Harasser, etc.) or upgrade one of your support skills to advanced.

[TheN00b]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! You do not need Medical or Engineer to survive as a grunt!!!

Sorry, that just ticked me off :mad: .

[BadAsh]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! You do not need Medical or Engineer to survive as a grunt!!!

Sorry, that just ticked me off :mad: .

I agree with your "or" statement. You need both.

[Incompetent]

He speaks the truth.

[Biohazzard56]

I agree with an AV buff or lower AV to 2 cert points, but Sniping for 2 Cert points is a BAD idea

[Onizuka-GTO]

they should make it a 4 Certs!

I mean not everyone can be a sniper, its suppose to be a really specialised field, by putting it higher it sorts the boys & girls from the adults.

Making any cheaper and it's going to be Counter-Strike where everyone and a n00b is making a no-mans zone flooding a base so bad, no one can run about.

[TheN00b]

May I ask, out of curiousity, why you need both? Med-Packs are always a good replacement for Medical: Sure, they take more inventory space, but you can instantly heal while fighting, and they don't take 3 Cert Points to use. As for Engy, that's why you go in zergs: You can always count on someone nearby to have a BANK. Or you can just charge in for the glory of Smurf Nation :D :cool: .

[SandTrout]

The reason that the vehicles and MAXes are in bundles is A) because they have useage timers, B) You cant capture a base with a reaver or pounder.

HA is expensive because you can use it as a grunt indoors and beable to hack/heal/repair and carry another weapon.

[Jagd]

Ah well, it was worth a shot. Bundling weapon certs together would be going a bit too far, but I was just looking at it in terms of 4 certs for Heavy Assault cannot possibly compare with Air Cavalry since it gives you the best killing machine in the game as well as the universally available, fastest transportation in game.

My current cert loadout is:
Adv Hack, Special Assault, Air Cavalry & Support, Ground Transport & Support
1 free point

When I hit BR20 I will have Infiltration back but I really wish I could have Heavy Assault without gimping myself vehicularly. Ah well, I guess I'm getting a lot of bang for buck with my vehicles now. :)