The Big HA Arguement!

[Aurorapro]

What are people's feelings on HA? I believe that all can simply own when used properly and the thing i hate is when some MA attacker indoors expects to get the better of you with any of the HA weapons, the truth is indoors HA simply owns the lot but outside unless you get to sring out on someone then you will really have to be very lucky or charge straight ahead and let rip, well thats what i believe anyway im beginning to use HA so much more now and the maelstrom simply kicks major ass indoors against a surge in total ive seen 7 people go down to its secondary fire, if people want to own indoors get HA and get good at using it ive seen so many people own MA'ers aswell like my friend "Cacus" on werner goes everywhere with his MCG and owns people even outside at first wh i tried its was death for me lol. I do not believe any of the HA weapons should be buffed or changed as i have owned and go owned by JH and lasher users aswell, just simply a matter of sometimes luck and sometimes skill. ;)

Sorry for Threading spammage btw :P

[Veteran]

HA balance is meaningless. Surge breaks the game.

[JakeLogan]

HA balance is meaningless. Surge breaks the game.
/agreed btw delete HA solves all my problems..........

[Kikinchikin]

no. just becuz everyone in the world has HA practically, doesnt mean its unfair. if you want to be a grunt u pretty much have to use it. (altho u can get by with MA or SA sometimes if ur good)

[Veteran]

I don't agree. By that logic, the U.S. military would equip every soldier with the SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon). The reason they don't is because there are drawbacks to doing so.

There should be drawbacks to wielding Heavy Assault.

edit: Base captures are made and broken indoors. Claiming that HA sucks outdoors is futile, considering a soldier has more than enough certs to also be able to drive a tank when he's not owning with HA indoors.

[Jagd]

So what, for 4 lousy certs you'd better be able to own somewhere! That's coming from someone who doesn't use HA, before you get your panties in a twist.

There are those who like HA, and there are those of us who have enough skill to get by on Medium and/or Special Assault. I say stop griping that some people like the edge HA gives them, and just be happy that we get the ultimate weapon combo (Spec Assault, basically) and are fully equipped for grunt work with only 5 cert points under the belt.

[I Hate Pants]

There should be drawbacks to wielding Heavy Assault.

EXACTLY! I mean MCG'S practically make the cycler obsolete. I'm a hardcore cycler user. I don't want to be like every other TR and use the MCG. Grunts should be armed the the basic rifle.

But you have to admit. Anyone who arms themselves with 2 HA weapons is the ultiamte N00B!

Most players use HA weapons because its easier to kill players with. They'd rather not have a challenge. Its more rewarding killing people with an MA rifle than it is with a HA weapon.

[Majik]

But you have to admit. Anyone who arms themselves with 2 HA weapons is the ultiamte N00B!

I admit I am guilty of doing that when I first started playing and tried the TR. Running around with 2 MCGs, one reg ammo, one AP. Thankfully I saw the MA light :D

[Jagd]

When your main is BR14, you shouldn't be tossing words like "n00b" around. Thanks.

[Majik]

When your main is BR14, you shouldn't be tossing words like "n00b" around. Thanks.

I don't see how that applies. I have seen people play this game for less than a month and get BR 20, and others play it for 6 months just having fun doing support roles and not XP whoring and still be no higher than a BR 14. Noob is a state of mind (or lack there of), not a battlerank.

[SilverLord]

So basically I use the noob because it's an easy kill? I can drop HA so fast and only use SA to get kills. SA is much better than HA in my opinion. I use the MCG because it is the funnest, and most difficult HA weapon in the game.

[Kikinchikin]

what silverlord said. MCG is just fun to use. who wouldn't want to use a huge chaingun that spews out lead like crazy?

I for one have done it all. During beta i was a hardcore only sniper. First few months of release i was a rocklet/thumper whore. Then i started using cycler and finally the MCG and striker combo (myt favorite all time ownage combo) then i got agile insteaad of rexo for need of support certs, and here i am with my MCG, 2 decis, REK, CUD and med app plus ammo.

[BadAsh]

The real n00bs use MAX units. IMHO the MAX is the single biggest skill substitute built into this game... next would be aircraft (who can't kill with the Reaver?)... and then Tanks. Somewhere after those, well after those, is HA. With a HA cert you are vulnerable to every threat in the game and actually have to fight your opponent. Other methods of killing (MAX, Aircraft, Tanks) offer the benefit of virtual immunity to many opponents (what good is your cycler now?) while allowing far easier kills...

Basically if you want to go on a killing spree and kill 5-15 opponents in a zerg cert in a Tank or Reaver... if you want to kill 1-3 opponents before dying in a zerg cert in HA.

People whining about HA are the Tank/Reaver/MAX pilots that got caught out of their vehicle. They are used to easy kills and now have to *gasp* fight for a kill. Now of course if they actually had any skills they could fight back... but...

P.S. Sorry for the hostile post, but I'm sick of people whining about HA. Ha is not the problem, it's your inability to overcome one of the smaller obsticles in the game that is the problem.

[IGOR]

I think if u are NC and have a JH surge single fire single fire triple :P will own any troop inf or big armour dude so have fun wiv the JH ppl :ncrocks: :vssucks:

[SilverLord]

Surge ruins HA. And sorry for this but TR MAXes arn't up to par with NC and VS. That makes it even harder for us. The Burster is quite ok though.

[Veteran]

If you prefer MCG over Jackhammer, you prefer delayed victory over victory.

Don't be a joke. MCG requires a time investment to win. JH requires but a single click of the mouse. Surely you're not idiot enough to ignore the difference.

Or are you?

Oh my.

[infinite loop]

Surge is fine, HA is fine. I also find it funny that people still say there's no challenge to using HA. Sounds like somebody got owned. If you don't like HA, then SA has some sweet-ass weapons, just as effective at killing. But honestly, why do people get so upset about these weapons? If it's fun for you, use it, otherwise don't. HA = fun for me, and that's why I stick to it. This is a game, and being entertained is all I care about.

Oh and speaking of n00bish weapons, try the liberator! Bombing the zerg is absolute carnage. Just last night, I got over 60 kills in one run over a hotly-contested base. Sweet Jesus that thing is scary powerful!

[SilverLord]

Surge is not fine. Try running up a little hill or tower stairs, you start warping all over and u hit the ceiling, i don't call that surge being fine.

[Jagd]

First of all, Liberators are probably the least "n00b friendly" of every weapon and/or vehicle in the game. Granted, they pack a lot of punch, but they require both a very good pilot and at least a literate bombardier to be even vaguely useful. The reason the weapons on all vehicles are so much more powerful than handheld weapons is because they require tactics, preplanning and generally more than one person to unleash their potential.

What I don't get, is how some of you guys think you are the cat's ass for not using Heavy Assault, and yet continue griping as if the Jackhammer's continued existence is a blight on humanity. If you are so good that you use Medium Assault over Heavy why do you need Heavy removed? If you think HA needs to go then clearly MA isn't cutting the mustard for you, and you may be pointing the wrong end of your sweeper at the enemy. Just flip that bad boy around, and if you're still getting owned enough to rant about eliminating HA, then pick up the fricking cert yourself.

Seriously. Stop boasting about how good you are, because if you were that good, HA wouldn't bother you. Personally I think I'm about 50 / 50 when I take a sweeper up against a jackhammer, and if I'm outdoors I get more cycler kills than I care to count. The rest of the time I'm airborne and/or getting owned by AA MAXes that cost half of what I paid for my Reaver, and yet I am not campaigning to increase AA MAXes to 4 certs or anything ludicrous like that. No, I try not to blame my equipment for user error.

[I Hate Pants]

The real n00bs use MAX units. IMHO the MAX is the single biggest skill substitute built into this game... next would be aircraft (who can't kill with the Reaver?)... and then Tanks. Somewhere after those, well after those, is HA. With a HA cert you are vulnerable to every threat in the game and actually have to fight your opponent. Other methods of killing (MAX, Aircraft, Tanks) offer the benefit of virtual immunity to many opponents (what good is your cycler now?) while allowing far easier kills...

Basically if you want to go on a killing spree and kill 5-15 opponents in a zerg cert in a Tank or Reaver... if you want to kill 1-3 opponents before dying in a zerg cert in HA.

People whining about HA are the Tank/Reaver/MAX pilots that got caught out of their vehicle. They are used to easy kills and now have to *gasp* fight for a kill. Now of course if they actually had any skills they could fight back... but...

P.S. Sorry for the hostile post, but I'm sick of people whining about HA. Ha is not the problem, it's your inability to overcome one of the smaller obsticles in the game that is the problem.

OH LOL! How wrong you are. Tell me if you see reaver, tank, or max in my certs. Thank you.

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character.jsp?charId=624816&worldId=15

NO? Hmmmmmm. Well I guess your theory just went down the shitter. :(

Anyways people who say HA are difficult to use are just denying it. Their afraid the devs will beat it with the nerf stick if they admit its overpowered. Why the fuck do you think most people are armed with HA weapons? Because they look good? NO! Because its easy to rack up kills with them.

Oh Jagd! Maybe im only BR14 is because im not a HA weapon whore like yourself.

I hit 150 in a day once, but god dammit if I ever play for 5 hours straight again somebody pull the plug for me.

Also I devote alot of my time playing PS like you do apparently.
kthankbye

[BadAsh]

OH LOL! How wrong you are. Tell me if you see reaver, tank, or max in my certs. Thank you.

http://myplanetside.station.sony.com/character.jsp?charId=624816&worldId=15

NO? Hmmmmmm. Well I guess your theory just went down the shitter. :(

Anyways people who say HA are difficult to use are just denying it. Their afraid the devs will beat it with the nerf stick if they admit its overpowered. Why the fuck do you think most people are armed with HA weapons? Because they look good? NO! Because its easy to rack up kills with them.

Well,

You have a cool cert layout, but you are a support guy and basically a non-combatant. You don't have HA, you don't have a MAX suit, you don't have any fighting vehicles, you only have MA and SA and Hacking really... so it's no suprise to me that you have a problem with HA since you have no counter certification.

My guess is that you get owned by MAX units, Aircraft, Tanks, and HA all day long. Personally if I were you I'd pick up a few more combat certs and then revert back to a more support role, if that's what you want, once you hit BR20. Otherwise you are going to stay BR14 with less than 800 kills for a long time.

Planetside is a game of Rock Paper Scissors... you have to match the right certs, right gear, at the right time for success. With your build you need to stick to hacking and driving the LLU carrier and perhaps loading down with Decis to take out MAX units or harrass vehicles from tower and base walls. If you are doing anything else you are going to be outgunned. Your build would also make a great module runner if you have CC and a good ANT runner too.

So to refer to my closing statement in my last post...."P.S. Sorry for the hostile post, but I'm sick of people whining about HA. Ha is not the problem, it's your inability to overcome one of the smaller obsticles in the game that is the problem."

[Vick]

When your main is BR14, you shouldn't be tossing words like "n00b" around. Thanks.
When your main is br19 with 2000 kills, you shouldnt be fucking talking. Dont be an ass just because he has less kills then you.

Now, on with the show...

The real n00bs use MAX units. IMHO the MAX is the single biggest skill substitute built into this game... next would be aircraft (who can't kill with the Reaver?)... and then Tanks. Somewhere after those, well after those, is HA. With a HA cert you are vulnerable to every threat in the game and actually have to fight your opponent. Other methods of killing (MAX, Aircraft, Tanks) offer the benefit of virtual immunity to many opponents (what good is your cycler now?) while allowing far easier kills...
A newb in a MAX, reaver, or tank has the same or less killing power then a newb in rexo with two MCGs, or JHs, or whatever. I see reavers every day that kill nothing, and just fly around crashing into shit, I see the same in tanks, MAXs, and HA newbs. But out of all that, the HA weapons are definatly the most easy to use. Tanks need gunner, reavers need piloting skill, and MAXs need (not alot) but more tactics to win.

If we are talking about someone who can play the game decently, then it really depends on if they are any good at the certain cert they are using. I see plenty of decent players in MAX suits who get no kills, same with reaver and tank. But if you put someone who knows how to run forward and shoot, then HA will work wonders for them just because it has so much more spam potential then anything else.

Basically if you want to go on a killing spree and kill 5-15 opponents in a zerg cert in a Tank or Reaver... if you want to kill 1-3 opponents before dying in a zerg cert in HA.
Comparing vehicles and HA is a bit silly, but Ill continue with this. If you give a newb a reaver, and you give another newb a JH. The jackhammer will get more kills every time.

I often get more kills per death then the best JHers, because I fly the reaver pretty well, and it is just a completly different thing. It all depends on player skill, but if joe newb has equally low JH skill to his low reaver skill, then the JH will get more kills from shear ease of use. Same with the MCG or lasher.

People whining about HA are the Tank/Reaver/MAX pilots that got caught out of their vehicle. They are used to easy kills and now have to *gasp* fight for a kill. Now of course if they actually had any skills they could fight back... but...

P.S. Sorry for the hostile post, but I'm sick of people whining about HA. Ha is not the problem, it's your inability to overcome one of the smaller obsticles in the game that is the problem.
Ahahahahaha, ahahahahaha, ahahahahaomg, roflmao, ahahaha, lols.

I am a pilot, I think HA is overpowered as a whole, and nearly skilless to use. I dont really whine about it, sence I rarely get killed by some newb spamming it all over. But I still think it is overpowered, and should be nerfed or removed.

If you actually believe what you posted, you are a loser.

Newb.

PS: If you still think I am some whining pilot newb, I would like to fucking see you fight me, 1vs1, me with my sweeper.

[Spee]

What pisses me off, is when Me, in Rexo, goes 1vs1 against an agile with a gauss. I shoot my thumper, direct hit, he starts burning, I lag because of the pretty green thing, and start strafing in place(to him) thus, he gets an easy kill.


However, I do have the comfort in watching him flail around like an idiot before he dies. And, I still get the XP.

[flypengy]

::beats dead horse::

Hasn't HA been argued about since beta? What a waste of time to continue to complain and 'balance'...

[WritheNC]

I love the sweeper so much now.

You know the surgile HA user you just killed on the other end with it is screaming, "WTF OMG I HAVE HA AND SURGE WTF HOW DID HE KILL ME OMFG OMFG OMFG /petition HOW DOES A SWEEPER KILLZOR ME OMG OMG" and pounding on the keyboard.

So HA does serve a purpose. You get to be embarassed by people with more skill who use "lesser" weapons. :D

[Fenrys]

Take all HA weapons out of the game.

My 2 nanites.

[BadAsh]

PS: If you still think I am some whining pilot newb, I would like to fucking see you fight me, 1vs1, me with my sweeper.

Let's switch this up a little to humor my original statements...

Your Sweeper vs. my HA = HA probably a win but no guarantee
Your Sweeper vs. my Reaver = Reaver...
Your Sweeper vs. my Tank = Tank...
Your Sweeper vs. my AI MAX = AI MAX... see where this is going?

The thing that separates Planet Side from pure "death match" style FPS games is the tactical element. In PS the recipe for victory is having the right certifications, the right gear, and being in the right place.

The moral of the story (and my point) is that if you want to go into bases and own CQB then you better cert and gear up for the mission... Rexo/HA/SA/AI MAX or something along those lines would serve you well... trying to get by with MA won't cut it.

Likewise if you want to own outside you better get some aircraft or armored vehicle certifications. Running around on foot won't cut it.

Here is where my "less skill" comparison comes in.... With HA there are no "free kills" where you find you are facing an opponent who CAN'T fight back. With vehicles this happens all the time. How many times have you been in a Reaver or armored ground vehicle and happened across enemy infantry or snipers? See what I mean now? With almost 0 skill and 0 effort you rack up a "free kill" against an opponent who can do little more than plink at you before dying.

Now HA on the other hand... everyone you kill is a viable threat. No? Then why your sweeper challenge... surely you believe you have a chance?

[Gunslanger]

The real n00bs use MAX units. IMHO the MAX is the single biggest skill substitute built into this game not true. you must have never played a MAX. you make it sound like MAXes are just gods in-game. you should hear yourself, you sound stupid as hell.

next would be aircraft (who can't kill with the Reaver? again, you make yourself sound stupid.

and then Tanks. Somewhere after those, well after those, is HA. With a HA cert you are vulnerable to every threat in the game and actually have to fight your opponent. after the tank part, i agree. you DO have to fight for your kills using HA. at least against me you do. if you are just some newbie, your not gonna even kill me with a JH too easily unless you catch me from behind. HA pwns infantry, no doubt. that is what it is supposed to do.

Planetside is a game of Rock Paper Scissors you nailed it right on the head. different situations call for different measures. that is why you are supposed to use teamwork in game.

[BadAsh]

not true. you must have never played a MAX. you make it sound like MAXes are just gods in-game. you should hear yourself, you sound stupid as hell.

again, you make yourself sound stupid.

The very first time I ever used a MAX was during a Zerg. I suited up in my NC Scatter MAX and got 9 kills before a volley of decimators took me out. I just walked into a pile of enemy troops in a tower battle and started blasting everyone. Let's see.... suit up, find enemy, point and shoot... yeah that takes a special talent only a few select few could master... LOL

My very first flight with a reaver in battle I got 5 kills because I busted 4 infantry walking in the open and killed an ANT on my way to catch up with my squad. So again, fly around, see easy target, point near target, and let fly a volley of spam reaver rockets, count your BEP... again, I don't think the word "skill" comes to mind...

The most "skill kills" I ever got was with a Flail. I parked it on a hill right next to a 3-level tower. I was playing as TR and the VS owned the tower. They were pretty much Zerging from that tower. From my position I could fire into any of the 3 doors on my side of the tower. Everytime a door would open I just fired into the doorway and got 1-6 kills. By the time they finally killed me I racked up 73 kills... Skill? Hardly. Lame? A much more accurate description of the Flail.

Hence I don't understand the whining about HA...

FIN

[Sputty]

IMO, making HA weapons take up 2 slots would fix it totally. They may be still really good in certain situations, but the disadvantage makes it so not too many people will use it, and the people who do know what they're doing.

[Incompetent]

Noone says the game is perfect except for HA, it's just that HA is the most unbalanced thing in it as of now. Seriously, would anyone here object if the Flail was made into an actual artillery piece instead of a deployable god? What about a reaver rocket nerf? (non-pilots only damnit.) Probably not, the Jack is just the one you have to deal with the most, and more importantly, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get away from it. Simply because when push comes to shove, you cannot cram 4 or 5 flails into the CC, and thats the only place where it really matters.

Edit: as far as AI maxes go, they lack mobility and autonomy, making them predictable and vulnerable, unlike a jack which is only predictable because so many of the users are morons.

[Veteran]

It's true. Control of the courtyard and inside the base makes or breaks any offensive, despite the activity in the surrounding terrain.

They need to implement outdoors activities that are as important as what happens inside the base.

[Vick]

Let's switch this up a little to humor my original statements...

Your Sweeper vs. my HA = HA probably a win but no guarantee
Your Sweeper vs. my Reaver = Reaver...
Your Sweeper vs. my Tank = Tank...
Your Sweeper vs. my AI MAX = AI MAX... see where this is going?

The thing that separates Planet Side from pure "death match" style FPS games is the tactical element. In PS the recipe for victory is having the right certifications, the right gear, and being in the right place.

The moral of the story (and my point) is that if you want to go into bases and own CQB then you better cert and gear up for the mission... Rexo/HA/SA/AI MAX or something along those lines would serve you well... trying to get by with MA won't cut it.

Likewise if you want to own outside you better get some aircraft or armored vehicle certifications. Running around on foot won't cut it.

Here is where my "less skill" comparison comes in.... With HA there are no "free kills" where you find you are facing an opponent who CAN'T fight back. With vehicles this happens all the time. How many times have you been in a Reaver or armored ground vehicle and happened across enemy infantry or snipers? See what I mean now? With almost 0 skill and 0 effort you rack up a "free kill" against an opponent who can do little more than plink at you before dying.
... Ok, so if you put a reaver next to some snipers with no anti-air support it will be nothing special, but it is not like shitty players fly around finding anipers with no air support all the time. But you do see lots of newbs running forward holding leftmouse and getting a kill or three.

Anyway, why do you continue to compare vehicles and HA weapons? Compare it to MA and SA.

Now HA on the other hand... everyone you kill is a viable threat. No? Then why your sweeper challenge... surely you believe you have a chance?
What? I dont understand this... I said: "If you still think I am some pilot newb, I would like to see you kill me 1vs1."

Why did I say this? Because you said pilots and MAXs are skilless shitty players who whine because they cannot kill things on the ground. Which is not true at all, if anything it is non JH users whining about how it owns them so much.

But my offer still stands, if you believe what you said I will be happy to prove you wrong.

Edit: as far as AI maxes go, they lack mobility and autonomy, making them predictable and vulnerable, unlike a jack which is only predictable because so many of the users are morons.
Agreed, that is why MAXs are so well balanced to other weapons in the game.

[BadAsh]

What? I dont understand this... I said: "If you still think I am some pilot newb, I would like to see you kill me 1vs1."

Well it would make sense to you if we consider your full original quote �PS: If you still think I am some whining pilot newb, I would like to fucking see you fight me, 1vs1, me with my sweeper�. Now, recall the context that quote was uttered in. You just joined the bandwagon of the argument that HA is overpowered so much so that any n00b can spam away with HA and get a kill. Yet, you boast a challenge to take on a guy with HA with your MA. Clearly you believe you can win, so clearly you believe that HA is not some unbeatable doomsday weapon as your earlier claims would suggest.

As for comparing vehicles to weapons� think of it as comparing equipment to equipment and you will see my point. To gain victory in Planetside several things have to come together. One of the most important is equipment match ups. For example: Let�s say Player 1 sporting Agile armor and a Suppressor takes on Player 2 suited up in an AI MAX. I�m not really a gambling man, but my cash would be on Player 2 if a wager was on. Making the claim that this is an invalid comparison would apply ONLY if this match up were not possible in the game.

With your certification and equipment load outs you define your role in the game. People who certify in heavy infantry and load out with HA should have an advantage over people who certed in other areas. Is this advantage so overbearing that it can�t be overcome with a lesser weapon? The answer is a definitive �NO� and from your original challenge quote, it�s obvious you know this to be true as well.

To all those still crying about HA� quit being dumbasses. You are engaging an enemy with a lesser weapon or equipment load out� what did you think might happen? It�s exactly like claiming Tanks are too powerful because you keep getting owned in your Basilisk. �I fired first, but he just turned around and blasted me with his n00b spam weapon. B.S!!! Tanks should be removed from the game!�

[Incompetent]

When a skeeter pilot bails on a tower roof he doesn't magically morph into a tank. A tank cannot be purchased at an AMS. A tank cannot follow you inside. A tank cannot open a door. A tank has a five minute timer. A tank requires teamwork (or skill, if your a lightning guy) to operate. A tank cannot surge and jump to warp all over your screen. A tank is not a fucking infantry weapon, stop with the retarded comparisons.

For example: Let�s say Player 1 sporting Agile armor and a Suppressor takes on Player 2 suited up in an AI MAX Player 1 can simply go through a locked door and laugh histerically because player 2 can't do shit until someone else opens it for him, then player 1 can repair/heal himself, hack a term (if it's a third empires base of course) or make a mad dash to the vehicle bay among other things.

MAXes, when used outside of zergs, can also foster tactics and teamwork, the MAX relies on his buddies to keep him in fighting condition, get him through doors and to cover him from AV and deci fire with massed rifle fire, in return the supporting friendly infantry with heavy firepower against soft targets. It's a symbiotic relationship, unlike HA. Stop comparing them. HA defeats all other infantry portable weapons in most situations, with surgile, it beats them in all situations. There is no effective counter which can face it in a gen, hack or spawn room, other then a max, which are walking medkit containers without supporting inf, which you can conviently slaughter at will.

[Vick]

Well it would make sense to you if we consider your full original quote �PS: If you still think I am some whining pilot newb, I would like to fucking see you fight me, 1vs1, me with my sweeper�. Now, recall the context that quote was uttered in. You just joined the bandwagon of the argument that HA is overpowered so much so that any n00b can spam away with HA and get a kill. Yet, you boast a challenge to take on a guy with HA with your MA. Clearly you believe you can win, so clearly you believe that HA is not some unbeatable doomsday weapon as your earlier claims would suggest.

Your still making stupid comparisons, I am talking about how HA weapons can stand in for skill. I am not whining about how HA ownz all, I never did. I just think they are lame, spammy weapons. I can kill most people I take on, if they have HA or not, including you.

Anyway, Incomps post is good too, I agree completly with him.

[BadAsh]

Incompetent... Vick... I've run out of ways to explain this... so let's just make the simple weapon comparisons... we will ignore the MAX, vehicular, and distance aspects of the game� we will also ignore such unbalancing factors such as the numbers of players in each empire in a specific area at a given time and assume all is even� so let�s pretend the ONLY hazard in the game is HA.

Standard Assault gets you the use of the Suppressor and all of the Pistols and costs 0 certification points.

Medium Assault gets you the use of the Cycler, Gauss, Pulsar, Punisher, and Sweeper and costs 2 certification points.

Heavy Assault gets you the use of the Mini Chain Gun, Jack Hammer, and Lasher and costs 4 certification points and has a prerequisite of Medium Assault. If you (like most HA users) are only getting MA to fill the requirement then the true cost of HA is 6 certification points to achieve your HA goal.

All things even and in the optimum HA environment of CQB then HA would be the most powerful followed by MA and then by Standard. Is HA guaranteed a win every time? Nope. So even in this ideal environment HA is advantageous, but not supreme.

But now let�s snap out of our utopian �ideal� circumstances, wake up from pretend land, and get back to Planet Side� HA is useless in most situations because there are these things called vehicles and MAX units. Also rarely are you fighting 1 opponent so if you have HA and are facing several MA players you might take down 2-3 before you die. This is hardly cataclysmic. Considering you spent 3x the certification points for the meager advantage, I�d say you earned the right to have an advantage in that limited situation. Change the situation a little and add a simple factor like distance into the equation and now suddenly the low certification cost weapons are actually superior.

If HA gave you an advantage at any range; and gave you the ability to own the sky; and own anything that walked, rolled, or hovered on the ground� THEN I�d agree that HA is overpowered and somehow ruined the cosmic balance of the universe. PS is a game of certification and equipment management dictated by the situations YOU get yourself into.

CSD (common sense dictates) here� if you are infantry and want to kill a MAX you better cert in AV or SA and have those weapons equipped to have a chance. Likewise if you want to fight against Heavy Infantry you better pack a weapon that has some kick otherwise your opponent will have the advantage. Now, if you were somehow unable to pick the same certifications and equipment� THEN you would have a legitimate gripe. But, you made other choices didn�t you? Time to man up and deal with the strengths and weaknesses of the character build YOU picked. Anyone who constantly takes on HA Heavy Infantry with lesser and cheaper weapons has issues� HA is not your problem� the inability to overcome such a simple obstacle is where the trouble is.

Player 1 can simply go through a locked door and laugh histerically because player 2 can't do shit until someone else opens it for him, then player 1 can repair/heal himself, hack a term (if it's a third empires base of course) or make a mad dash to the vehicle bay among other things.

Anyway, Incomps post is good too, I agree completly with him.

Ok, see the 2 quotes above? See how you 2 are in perfect agreement? Note how Incompetent quickly realizes that "Player 1" the suppressor player has no chance against the MAX unit... so he becomes crafty and suggests other means of defeating his opponemt including using barriers (locked door) to facilitate healing/repair, changing equipment to fit your current need (hacking the terminal), and even making a dash to a vehicle terminal...

So why is it that when I bring up using a vehicle to take out a foe it's an invalid "retatded comparison" and not a legitimate course of action... yet, when you 2 think of it it's suddenly valid and viable counter option?

So how about this... then next time you get owned my HA... stop and think... should I continue charging in with a lesser weapon or should I equip myself for the situation as needed and perhaps get something more effective to fight with like a MAX, Vehicle, the cloaker/boomer combo, or even get your own HA?

Vick- Again with your challenge huh? What is that going to prove? Obviously you don't believe your own argument about HA being over powered or you would not be convinced you could beat a player you know nothing about with your MA Sweeper. If anything you are making an argument that the Sweeper is over powered becuase you can always kill anyone using HA with it... the Sweeper is 2 certs and HA is 4 with a 2 cert prerequisite... So are you advocating a Sweeper nerf or a HA buff?

[infinite loop]

It's threads like these that make me wonder why I continue to throw my head against the wall in HA debates. But I can't stand seeing this impeccable logic from BadAsh get discounted by people who can't seem to grasp the big picture. I mean, Christ, it's like playing cards with my brother's kids or something.

Seriously guys, I'm so sick of hearing that the JH is overpowered, because nothing else can beat it in the CC. First of all, there are ways to take down a group of JH users in a confined space. But you know what? JH is supposed to be the most powerful cqc weapon in the game. It sacrifices range to do this. It sure as hell better fucking own in the CC. The MCG and Lasher will dominate in ANY battle over 15m, and have a good chance at battles that are 5-10m. But you get under 5m to a JH, and you SHOULD die, period. You can't keep arguing balance in one piece of the game. It is OVERALL balance that is the concern, not just in the CC. Because the CC is not the only place that matters. Yeah, the CC may be a very important part, but you have the chance to prevent them from getting there. The battles for a base take place outside, in the courtyard, in the air above, and then inside the base. In each of those places, a JH user is at a disadvantage to all other weapons.

People like to say that the JH owns all indoors, but that just isn't true. In the hallways and medium to large-sized rooms, any MA or HA has an advantage over the JH. The JH has to get close to be effective, and if you see a JH user coming, you should be able to take them down before they get to you. If you can't, then you deserve to die. This game is about checks and balances of certs, situational awareness and the ability to adapt. IMHO, there is no aspect of this game that is even marginally overpowered. Like Ash said, if you keep running into the same situation and dying, maybe you need a different approach.

[Incompetent]

It is OVERALL balance that is the concern, not just in the CC. Who just stands there at 15m with a jackThe MCG and Lasher will dominate in ANY battle over 15m, and have a good chance at battles that are 5-10m.Lets see, best tank, best buggy, only av worth the certs, best long range rifle, best HA, better maxes in all 3 catagories (sparrow is better at what it's meant for, even if the burster is better all purpose), yeah, overall really balanced against our best mid/short range rifle.if you see a JH user coming, you should be able to take them down before they get to you. Maybe if he didn't warp all over my screen because he's in surgile I could.including using barriers (locked door) to facilitate healing/repair, changing equipment to fit your current need (hacking the terminal), and even making a dash to a vehicle terminal... My arguement was that a max couldn't do any of these, he has to sacrifice flexibility, while the surgile HA sacrifices nothing.Change the situation a little and add a simple factor like distance into the equation and now suddenly the low certification cost weapons are actually superior. Neg, surge, jump and strafe a little and you'll be at point blank with marginal damage because your warping all over the other guys screen, and you don't have to worry about COF (Lash does a little bit, MCG puts out enough rounds it doesn't matter) while everyone else does.So how about this... then next time you get owned my HA... stop and think... should I continue charging in with a lesser weapon or should I equip myself for the situation as needed and perhaps get something more effective to fight with like a MAX, Vehicle, the cloaker/boomer combo. Surgile can easily kill the maxes supporting inf and flee, vehicles do not fit in buildings. I doubt he will stand still when i ask him.Also rarely are you fighting 1 opponent so if you have HA and are facing several MA players you might take down 2-3 before you die. This is hardly cataclysmic. Considering you spent 3x the certification points for the meager advantage, I�d say you earned the right to have an advantage in that limited situation.HA can bring friends too, 3x5 is 15 not six (MA + Rexo, the armor that supposedly meant for infantry combat, which surgile HAs can happily ignore but rifles effectively requires because you must stay stationary to have a respecable COF)Because the CC is not the only place that matters. Yeah, the CC may be a very important part, but you have the chance to prevent them from getting there. You cannot effectively gain ground without fighting in CC.

I don't really care if HA gets a damage nerf, but something in the surgile HA build needs to be hit with the nerf bat, hard. A surge nerf would help restore the balance, pre-req that your in rexo would too, locking all infantry speeds to the speed of rexo wouldn't be my choice but it would do, but they either need to take away the ability to close quickly or the ability to kill quickly, then it will be balanced.

[Vick]

Ok BadAsh, you win at life.

Please nerf the sweeper, HA is fine.

[Queensidecastle]

I think the main disparity here is that HA is clearly being delt with inconsistantly. Sony has shown they are commited to balance on a per item basis. For example, the Devs spent a great deal of time tweaking each empire tank so ther overall they would be even but maintain some indiviual differences.

This is not so with Heavy assault. The got the differences right, but got the balance of those differences wrong. So the whole "Empires as a whole are balanced" argument doesnt wash when already per item balance is treated very seriously and in the game for Tanks, Medium assault, MAXs (for the most part. They are going to buff the TR MAXs eventually) and even attempted assault buggies.

Are Devs perfect and get it all right? of course not. There are still some glaring holes despite the attempts such as the Vanguard and Magrider are vastly superior to the Prowler and the Thresher and Marauder are still shit compared to the Enforcer but I think overall they did a good job considering scope and time constraints.

Heavy assault is a different matter entirely. I agree with the fact that the Jackhammer should have an edge indoors but one shot kills arent just an edge, its just on a different plane entirely to other Heavy assault. The range argument is worthless because you can just keep your Gauss out untill you get within range for your Jackhammer. Since the Devs have shown they they are commited to Catagorical balance issues It begs these questions:

Why doesnt the MCG have a secondary mode that doubles its fire rate or something of that nature?

Why doesnt the Lasher have a secondary mode that increases its Orb size, or strength, or Lash?

The argument that the MCG and Lasher have "built in modes" doesnt fly either because they still cannot be selectivly chosen to fit combat conditions, nor do they provide burst damage for higher TTK or boost the base properties of the weapon in any way. So now I modify my questions:

Why does the MCG not have a "built in Special mode" that the user can use selectivly?

Why does the Lasher not have a "built in Special mode" that the user can use selectivly?

If the Jackhammer was the weakest HA and was given a secondary mode to compensate then I really wouldnt care, but that is not the case. It is already the best heavy assault. So to sum up:

1)The Jackhammer is the best heavy assault with its weakness (range) being totally filled by the Gauss (Prereq cert) - This combination has no weaknesses. The other 2 Empire combinations are the same at distance and weaker in the Heavy assault range. Fine I can deal with that. But this is where it starts to piss people off:

2)The jackhammer has a secondary mode that increases its base effect dramatically and even capable of a one shot kill.

3)Other heavy assault do not get secondary modes that increase thier base effects.

So what you are left with is completely and totally unballanced Heavy assault. I would like to see a Dev try to defend these inconsistancies given thier track record of commitments to catagorical balance. I would like to see this disparity shored up to an acceptable level or have an official response that Heavy assault is a catagory that the Devs do not want to be in balance

[Mudflap]

Simply because the devs balanced one vehicle doesn't mean that they are dedicated to equality on a per item basis.

Obviously the TR Dual Cycler Max is absolute crap compared to either of the other empire's AI MAXes. Why? Why oh why?!? Why is there such intolerable disparity in their abilities?

Well, it would probably be because the Pounder has AI abilities greater than most other empire's AV MAXes. This is an overall balance, not per item.....clearly. The tanks are another issue, because they are the spearhead of any vehicular advance. They need to be equal moreso than anything else.

As for people whining that NC is overpowered overall, they may be right, but I don't feel that all their arguments are valid.

Stop whining about the damn Pheonix. It has lower damage over time than either of the other empire's weapons, unless you go to secondary fire mode, where it actually probably equals them, but has the accuracy of a decimator.

The anti-JH sentiment isn't even consistent. One person says that the NC has the best tank, the next person says that the devs went to great lengths to make them equal. The truth is, the Vanguard is the best tank......for most people. The Mag is a great tank though, but I hate the Prowler myself, and think it needs major a little lovin'.

Each empire has its strengths and weaknesses, and if you can't find them for your empire, then perhaps your style of play doesn't match your empire, or maybe you need therapy.

VS have awesome MAXes. In a normal base defense situation, you're fairly safe on the wall, but when the VS show up, they will take you out.

TR can defend a base or tower hallway WAY better than any other empire

NC have the best tank and can hit some stuff behind walls.

Learn to use your empire's strenghts. If an NC surgile goon is coming, I typically kneel and take him out. Accurate fire is worthwhile. Besides, see what happens when a surgile faces an AI Max.

If you're in a max, getting hit by Pheonix fire, get to cover, think about getting an infiltrator cert to counter them. There's always a away, and whining about it, especially in an infantile fashion, just shows lack of skill and insight.

I have a couple Vanu characters, and they rock. If the NC were so uber, then why don't they own your home continents?

[Madcow]

Well, it would probably be because the Pounder has AI abilities greater than most other empire's AV MAXes.

Bwahahahahaha!


If you're in a max, getting hit by Pheonix fire, get to cover, think about getting an infiltrator cert to counter them

Funny enough, I started my Vanu char with the Uni-MAX cert (only empire that it's truly worthwhile imho) and because of that I stalk Phoenix users mercilessly with my infil suit. I got pounded in so many scenarios with that freaking missile when I was in my MAX suit, and always got torqued that it seems like so few infils actually take the time to hunt those bastards. The Phoenix is a very distinctive blip on the HUD which basically gives away the location of the shooter to anybody who bothers to remotely pay attention. If you get into a field of multiple Phoenix users and have melee booster you can walk through just about all of them if you're careful. The Phoenix is a great weapon when used properly, but it definitely has it's weak points. I think AV is balanced against each other for the most part (even the Lancer despite the fact that nobody certs it) even if they really are useless as AV. Of course, the Phoenix is the one I'm jealous of 'cause it's fun to use.

[flypengy]

This argument is a joke. Not one of you has even quoted actual numbers and few of you are talking about the actual situation that each HA dominates. Sporkfire has said that the JH is meant to be the most powerful HA, it's NC and NC = power in few shots. You can't make a lasher as powerful as a JH. Even lasher 2.0 was dominated by the JH in close quarters. Any attempts to do so will make the lasher too powerful!

I honestly think that most of you would prefer everyone has the exact same weapons with no empire specific vehicles. Go play another game if that is what you want, constantly bitching because you want your lasher or mcg to dominate a JH a 5m is just stupid.

[Queensidecastle]

Sporkfire has said that the JH is meant to be the most powerful HA
I would like to see sources or some evidence of this and not some dumb shit about how the JH should be better indoors (I think most people are fine that shotguns are better indoors). We already covered that better does not equal the difference between 3-4 seconds to kill a trooper with an MCG or Lasher and the instakill of JH secondary. That isnt just "better", its bullshit. Also I havent seen any comments from devs or anyone else that has an acceptible explination as to why JH has a secondary and no other HA has a secondary