Life after BR20 - Spork speaks

[Marsman]

The following is from this post (http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum8/HTML/032617.html) with Questions from MaximGatling and Answers by Sporkfire.

[MaximGatling] Can you guys shed some light and/or dispel some rumors about Post-BR20 advancement plans?

Q1. Will there be a Battle Rank 21?

A1. Yes. And I am going to give you a whole bunch of information that could change at a moment's notice. This is simply where Design discussions stand right now. We are targeting the Summer to accomplish this, though don't take that as a firm timeframe yet (and there will be some other really cool stuff between now and then to get you through the wait).

Q2. Will there be defined 'Specialist' Classes we can pick? Specialist abilities or 'open-ended'-specialize-as-you-see-fit abilities?

A2. One of the concepts floating around in the post-BR20 discussions is Elite Abilities. That is, being able to do much cooler stuff than the certs you already have allow (such as barrel rolls for pilots, more hackable items, etc.)

Q3. Will a BR20+ character be any harder to kill before he reaches the equipment terminal than a BR1 character would? (a lot of people are worried about this one)

A3. As this design goes through, we'll try and stay away from that, though a marginally better chance of survival at higher levels is not out of the question yet.

Q4. Will there be additional equipment/uniform upgrades?

A4. Not sure yet. Art has not yet been determined.

Q5. Will exp be a factor and if so, will exp earned now be retroactive?

A5. Again, this is not hammered out in stone in the design.

[dscytherulez]

Nifty!

[SecondRaven]

At first glance this might be kick ass, but we have to remember now that we can go past BR20 we are going to have people with every cert...(not literaly) but depending on how much further we can go the more everyone is going to look like a super solidger. Ohwell we have to see what happens

[Spee]

Even fi you have EVERY cert, that doesnt mean squat. You cannot use every cert at once, thus leaving you just as vulnerable as you were before.

[Incompetent]

Not neccesarilly, i would imagine they are going to try to keep around the same ratio of available certs/possible certs they have now as they add more BRs.

[Morrik]

Great! When I play for three months and finally reach that goal... then I can worry about it!

[Queensidecastle]

I dont want to see the loss of specialization due to too many BR and available cert points but it looks to me they are taking that into consideration. In fact, it looks like they are going the specialization route with things like elite hacker, elite pilot..etc

[TheN00b]

Meh, this might deter n00bs a bit. Imagine you buy this great new game, which just won a Game of the Year award from a premier magazine. You begin to play, sweating with anticipation, and... Get blown to smithereens every time you're alive by super soldiers :( Not good.

[infinite loop]

Meh, this might deter n00bs a bit. Imagine you buy this great new game, which just won a Game of the Year award from a premier magazine. You begin to play, sweating with anticipation, and... Get blown to smithereens every time you're alive by super soldiers :( Not good.

Dude that happens right now. Simple fact is, a new player is at a severe disadvantage, no matter how good they are. There is a huge ramp-up time to really getting a feel for this game, and it has nothing to do with BR. I'll say again, the biggest negative thing about PS is the cap on BR and CR. Why shouldn't I be able to have every cert in the game, if I worked to get them? I can't use my MAX while I'm in rexo with HA, nor can I fly my reaver while I'm in a MAX. More certs does not equal lack of sepcialization, that's a BS argument. I can only hope that this means they are starting to agree, but I don't think I can wait till summer!

[Madcow]

Dude that happens right now. Simple fact is, a new player is at a severe disadvantage, no matter how good they are.

Totally true. I was used to playing a lot of multi-players FPS's and Planetside was a whole different beast. You're conditioned for one on one battles with the occasional frag-fest where 5-6 guys end up in the same room at the same time. Playing Planetside like that gets you a lot of tickets to the spawn room. Add the team play factor in (other FPS's can have team play, but it's completely different than the specialized way PS goes about it) and that's a lot to take in/adapt to.

[KIAsan]

Hmm, retroactive xp, hmmm. Sorry, started to drool there. Look guys, it would take around 61 certs to posses every cert combination possible. A BR20 only has 23 certs. Do the math. They could continue br until you hit BR58 before you could conceviably be an UBER br with all certs. Now, if they continued the same xp system to gain levels, do you really think you would see a br58????????? Not in my lifetime. Just think about the xp you would have to have.

BUT, allowing us to advance under the current system would give those of us who have the br20 blues new incentives. I would love br21 for the 1 extra cert point. That would rock. BR23 for 3 certs more would be wonderful.

So, for those of you who are worried, please chill. You don't have to fear my 3 or 5 extra certs.

[sutserikeru]

i was really hoping they would add more BRs under the current "need more xp to continue" system. Are they going to go beyond CR5? Are they going to add more weapons, armors, abilies, ect for BR20+ players? Spork didnt go into any detail (which he shouldve, even it could change on a moments notice.)

[Morrik]

New player's aren't too disadvantaged. The game is balanced in a way where it's possible to get on your feet when accomplishing all the training in the game. Sure, you're not going to be one of the best, but there is a fight chance and that chance is quite large. What good would an MMOFPS game be if there was no balance? :)

[TheN00b]

That's one way to think about it. However, I think that less advanced (in terms of BR and CR) players have to constrict themselves to certain styles. Seeing high-level characters sneak around in a CE/ADVHA/Inf mode, then jump into Air Cav and fly to the Gal waiting for a Pilot, then fly back to the base and grab a ReXo/MA/SA/HA config would be kind of discouraging when you yourself are limited to MAX combat and lite grunt-work.

[SpunkJackel]

23 certs is more than enough. If Sony wanted you to do everything at once there would not be a 24hour timer on forgeting old certs. Don't expect them to add more cert points with added BR. But it's probably not out of the question.

[Retroactive]

sounds cool

[Firefly]

but we have to remember now that we can go past BR20 we are going to have people with every cert...(not literaly) but depending on how much further we can go the more everyone is going to look like a super solidger.
Except that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the developers recognize this problem and said "After BR20 there is no more cert-points gained when you increase BR.

Thus we have this concept, which Sporkfire touched on, and may be their answer to what you see as an impending bad thing.
One of the concepts floating around in the post-BR20 discussions is Elite Abilities. That is, being able to do much cooler stuff than the certs you already have allow (such as barrel rolls for pilots, more hackable items, etc.)
BR21: choose an Elite Ability: barrel roll, hack a wall turret in a base, hack a terminal and actually pull out enemy-empire equipment, blah blah yada yada...

[Kikinchikin]

thats awesome. i'd like to see the ability to supe up land vehicles with NOS myself. or maybe enhanced handling/hand braking?

and maybe infils will finally get the famed REK slot. or u could go as far as giving grunts another pistol slot and/or more speed. IE giving rexo dudes 50 percent of the speed advantage an agile has over it. and you could have a timer of say 48 hours on ur elite abilities, making it more crucial to choose the right one even more so than certs.

edit: another good idea maybe is that lets say u go up to BR 30. You gain a small lil armor upgrade (maybe medals or patches, new color i dunno something nifty. maybe even a new commander ability and or something new to do as a grunt i dunno. at br 25 u get ur first elite choice. but u also get the choice of tradng in ur elite choice for 3 cert points. so at 25 u'd have 27 cert points if u traded in the elite. and same at 30 u get another elite choice but ucan have more certs. so theoretically u get 30 cert points at level 30 maximum. odd how that works out. it could be a good idea tho.

[321]

This sounds awesome only now that the certs come with 2-3 vehicles the concern of there being super soldiers of the level of BR is to big is even more.

[KIAsan]

You guys complaining about extra certs should worry more about these proposed "extra abilities". I for one would NOT like to see this in game. Think about how you would be even MORE discouraged if I can suddenly hack a wall turret at your base and waste you, just because I made BR20. Or even more discouraging, that I have the exact same cert you do (adv hack in this case), expended the exact same cert points, yet my Adv hack does more than your adv hack, just because I have br20.

Do you really think that you won't be complaining about it if they implement it this way? I for one would just prefer to stick to something a bit realistic (and very easy to do code wise). That is allow BR to increase for br20s, based on the same rates it is now. Yes, eventually I will get more than 23 certs. Yes, I can jump out of my unimax, grab my ha, fight to the veh term, hack it and grab a lightning. Ok, so I can be more of a loner. So What??? the fact that I am a br20 with 23 certs isn't any more onerous than me being a br25 with 28 certs. Yeah I got 5 more certs, but think of how long it took me to get those. Anyway, the devs will probably go with the special abilities and we will be right back here on this very forum, arguing about how unfair it is.

Edit: As it is now, there is no incentive beyond br20.

[Lithpope]

I kinda agree with KIAsan but, for different reasons. I saw what Alternate Advancment Abilities did to EQ when they first came out in Luclin, they broke it for support classes and quite frankly broke the game for a while. People bitched and then when they toned them down other people bitched, never ending cycle. That said, I don't think Specializations in PS have the ability to break the game as much as they did in EQ if the Devs are careful.

IF they do do Specializations, OMG I hope they do CE.

/Dreams of Anti-Armor Mines and Flak Spitfire Turrets!!

[Destroyeron]

Meh, this might deter n00bs a bit. Imagine you buy this great new game, which just won a Game of the Year award from a premier magazine. You begin to play, sweating with anticipation, and... Get blown to smithereens every time you're alive by super soldiers :( Not good.

N00b with supressor vs. HA

HA wins

duh

[Dunce]

Whilst we are discussing methods of further progression in the game, here's my idea. I'd like to see certification specific experience-based enhancements. This would mean that players would be able to unlock new abilties for various certs once they had gained a certain amount of XP whilst using that cert. For example, the ability to barrel-roll the reaver would be unlocked once you had earned a certain XP for flying it. XP gained for that player whilst not in the reaver would not count towards this enhancement. If you swapped the cert then you would lose all progression towards that enhancement. This would encourage players to stick with a cert and become good at it. Support based certifications would have to be worked diffently since they don't give XP (though I think this should be changed so they do - using support tools in or near a hotspot should give XP)

[DeadTeddy]

the way I understand it, BR is not there so you have goals. it's there to limit the short term options without creating pre-mase roles like in BF42 for example. the thing is, the moment you have something to shoot for, you get caught up in it. it happens in every game. then you hit the top and get bored.

I remmember a dev (smoke I think) saying that they don't want to give an advantage to experienced players and keep the game FPS, where skills are what counts. they are doing this pretty well with the "newB pack" they call the uni-max. you just get BR2 and take it, easy and usefull.

I like the barrel roll idea. after all, an experienced pilot can pull allot nicer moves from aircraft even if they aren't built to do them. I'm sure they can find similar things for other certs, that won't give a real advantage except for specific cases (like dodging the fire from a tail gunner.

[Black]

Maybe at BR21 u can customize your armor?

[Rada]

Of all the Morg�s I�v played, The N00b has a better chance against a veteran in Planetside then any other. He has to expect to get killed a lot, But that�s the same for a noob in any game. And there are ways for a N00b to rack up points by playing smart. In Asherons Call, When a level 5 goes up against a level 15 PC or Monster there is only one outcome. N00b loses.

In PS:
N00b with supressor vs. HA - HA wins
N00b with supressor, In the gunner seat of a Vanguard vs. HA - N00b Wins.
Well, most of the time.
BR2 N00b with infi standing behind my br12 - N00b wins, (I know this for a fact. Boy do I know this. I know this Too %$%$$ Much!)
And when that Magmower runs over you in your REXO, It does not care that you are a Unimax,Adv Eng, Adv Med, Air Cav, HA, Sniping, Assualt Buggy. Having more certs helps you as a player come out of the spawn room with the right equipment, (if you guessed right) But once the gunfire starts, you in your max and that N00b with a decimator, aren�t that far apart.

[Arkitan]

N00b with supressor vs. HA

HA wins

duh

thats true but even new characters can get HA right out of VR training.

[Queensidecastle]

I am a fan of specilization because it allows you to create a custom character. If we could have all the certs we wanted everyone would be exactly the same and Planetside wouldnt be any different than Quake or UT. At that point they might as well remove the battle rank system entirely.

Much better is the ability to create an identity and role for yourself. People will know of you as a great pilot or a great hacker because you spent the time and energy creating yourself that way. People will want you along for those reasons because they know you are really good at your job. It also models life in a slight way. Its not very often that a person spends thier first 35 years becoming a top surgeon and then want to change to being a top architech. It just doesnt work that way. Also, you can drop all your certs and re-speciliaze how ever you like anyways, so its not like you cant try something new or change your mind

[Firefly]

Specialization and elite abilities are the way to go.

HOWEVER.

If you remember Core Combat, there were a few new Certifications that came out, and then they were merged at some point after.

This game will not survive on PS and CC alone. There has to be more. There must be more. There will be more.

Say, for example, that an aquatic expansion comes out. I use this example because water covers more surface on the planet, it's an easier modification because it's all there, you just keep people from sinking immediately. Water covers surface and the subsurface, where you can create subsurface bases, etc.

So we get this Auraxis Oceans expansion. Say they come up with an underwater implant. Well, I don't feel like ditching one of my three already to get a new one, so BR24 here comes a new implant. Say they create a few surface vessels, some subsurface vessels. Well holy shit Batman, they aren't going to lump attack submarine with Prowler. They aren't going to put Rubber Raiding Craft with the Harasser/Lightning... so you'll need more certifications. There's no way you're going to max out cert points unless the developers put the cap at BR60 now.

So yeah, I think we're safe at not seeing uber-God characters with every cert known to man.

[SandTrout]

The Alternate advancement abilities must be useful, but limited to indirect combat.

The Elite hacker with an extra REK slot is useful because you dont have to fumble with your inventory. Possibility of hacking Wall turrets might actualy be a boon to defence because people don't want do destroy something they can use.

Barrel rolls might compleatly neutralize the mossie's menuverablitiy advantage over the reaver.

[Kikinchikin]

screw barrel rolls, i want to be able to do a flip like in starfox!

[Firefly]

You mean an Immelman?

[Angel_of_Death]

I agree with everyone who said that BR 20+ would make everyone a super soldier and take away all the unique differences that make a character different from everyone else. Over BR 20 would be nice but I think it's fine the way it is now.

[infinite loop]

I agree with everyone who said that BR 20+ would make everyone a super soldier and take away all the unique differences that make a character different from everyone else. Over BR 20 would be nice but I think it's fine the way it is now.

Let us know if you still feel that way when you get to br20 :D

[Firefly]

I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

First, if you do the math, there's no way you can have every cert beyond BR20 unless you're way out there.

Second, any expansion pack that comes out will more than likely add MORE certifications to the already-large list.

Third, every game that deals in "levels" invariably has increases as the game gets bigger and better.

Fourth, people who attain BR20/CR5 get bored and start a new character when they get bored, or they switch empires and start over, or they move on. Some people who are at BR20/CR5 desire to stay in their outfit because of the friendships they've built, the excellent gaming experience they gain every time they play. Why should you hamper their fun by saying "OMFG NO F-ING WAYZ0RZ"?

It's ignorant to say BR20 is the ultimate, and anything higher will make god-like uber-leet super soldiers. It's inconceivable that any intelligent person would limit themselves that way, or think that an increase would simply mean "more cert points to gain". It's also inconceivable to think an idea of this magnitude would NOT be "felt-out" on the In-Concept forum, where everyone can provide imput.

[DeadTeddy]

you don't get it, there's gotta be a limit. if people get to BR30 they'll get bored again, that's not the solution.

these things might actually help. I also think a nice addition would be medals once you reach a certain number of XP that don't do much except for putting you on a nice list.

[infinite loop]

you don't get it, there's gotta be a limit. if people get to BR30 they'll get bored again, that's not the solution.

these things might actually help. I also think a nice addition would be medals once you reach a certain number of XP that don't do much except for putting you on a nice list.

I still haven't heard a compelling argument as to why there has to be a limit. I just don't see a problem with it. Give me br58!

[DeadTeddy]

you have BR58, every cert out there. you can hack anything you want, get any piece of equipment you want anytime anywhere. you don't need an adv. medical terminal, you can repair anything, set up defensive CE deployables, take out any car you need, things like that. basiclly, in any given situation you can bring in the best weapon for the job.
a BR3 has one cert, a unimax, he'll be pwned way too much. even a BR20 won't be able to keep up. that's the problem.

and the reason BR's are there in the first place is to create different roles in the game. that way you have a platoon with 3 medics, 6 drivers who usually have engi, 3 adv hackers, 3 pilots, 5 max units and 10 infantry. creates the need for teamwork, makes the game more chalenging.

[Queensidecastle]

the reason BR's are there in the first place is to create different roles in the game. that way you have a platoon with 3 medics, 6 drivers who usually have engi, 3 adv hackers, 3 pilots, 5 max units and 10 infantry. creates the need for teamwork, makes the game more chalenging.
:clap:

[Led]

More certs would just be silly. I already AM a supersoldier. I am certified in every single infantry weapon short of a bolt driver. I also have my lil basilisk to carry my heavily armored butt around ^.^

I already think people have way too many certs, and can do way too many things.

[WritheNC]

Don't need anything after BR20/CR5.

I've been an FPS freak for a few years. I don't think I got anything special for playing Counter-Strike for 2 years. You know, like a discount on weapons or something.

Yes yes I know. Different game. Oh well.

[noxious]

Why not make these elite abilities cost cert points? Then BR20's have access to all the same abilities as lower ranks, and in addition, the addition of maximum cert points is balanced by the new certs avaliable.

[Lise]

I'm with Led, I can already own pretty much anything I come across short of a Vanguard/Magrider (and even then that's only because of the AV nerf way back when). Once the Rexo buff goes through I'll be hell on wheels.

I'm all for "Alternate Elite Advancement" though. Yet another good reason for me to come back to PS.

[sPooT]

I would be for elite certs which one can only get past BR20, I'm ok with that. As long as they don't make them like superversions of already existing certs, like the infil suit with extra REK slot someone mentioned. That would suck so bad for new people, having to play months to get to BR20 and finally able to do the exact same thing as everyone.

Also, I would be against ANY direct battle advantage because of you being BR20, as mentioned before, BR20 already have a big advantage as it is. That includes the barrel roll, man it would suck to spend 4 points on Air Cavarly as a newbie and then keep getting owned by some guy just because he has too much spare time on his hands ;)

Please don't forget this is a shooter, not a RPG. The second they introduce a real threadmill, people are gonna quit. Well the ones not BR20 at least.

Oh and I can't believe people seriously think giving us more cert points doesn't matter. I mean, grunts are just short of having about every support(medic, engy, hacking) cert available to them. If you raise the cert limit by 3 for example, you can count on it that pretty much every grunt character is gonna get one more support cert. For pilots the situation is completely different, since you CAN have about every vehicle in the game and still have a decent character.

[Kikinchikin]

I agree with infinite loop on this one.

Teddy if someone works to get to br 58 (which if the xp treadmill kept increasing, it would take 4 ever) why shouldn't they get all the certs? They worked hard for it put in more hours, why shouldn't they receive the reward.

But my main arguement was stated earlier in the thread. Just because I have every possible cert, doesn't mean i can use them all. Fact is, if i come out of a tower in my reinforced armor toting a chaingun and a deci, i have a good chance at owning anything short of armored vehicles and aircraft. Ok so those are my two weaknesses. Let's say i fight over to the base and grab a reaver. Now AA maxes become my weakness, as do skeeters. I crash land and get my burster max. Now troopers are my weakness as our other max units.

You see where I'm going here? No matter how many different certs you get (even if you get them all) you're still never going to be able to always have the upper hand in every situation. That's why there are counters. This game is like rock paper scissors, there is ALWAYS a counter to whatever you are in. It may not be present in small battles, but any semi large battle is bound to have at least a few of the counter.

Give us guys that played this game hard some more room to breathe. I know its not an xp mongering game like an RPG, but I would like to see some room for expansion as it would at least give me a goal again.

[BUGGER]

Ya. Whats wrong it? Having every thing in PS is just the same as other games.


True the first few BR's of some ones life will me monsterous, just because if you were to have a dual with someone they know you only have 1 or 2 items at your desposal.


But yes, its rock paper sizorz.

The only thing that is a threat, actually a threat to anyone, is if they got hacking. If someone can hack a medterm every time tehy reach 20 health, then tehy are invinsble. If a br2 could do that strait from the get go he is already invinsible.


A player is naked without a terminal, remember that.


Oh, and this is a team game. If you ever come across a br132 or whatever, you'll always have a man at your side to help you.


And higher br mean nothing(yes i probly said that 100 times), he's only got at the most 4 weapons slots, 1 probly a rek, and the same sized backpack. maybe his whole backpack is full of weapons, but he's going to need fast and accurate clicking, and a equiptment terminal near by.

[DeadTeddy]

want one example? 2 guys get these certs:
-ATV
-Cloack
-CE
-adv. hack
-heavy assault
-rexo
-ams

they can destroy the gen and spawns, then hack the base and defend it from the few guys who manage to sneak in, while getting support through the AMS. that's just one example.

the fact is, you're thinking only 3 months into the future at most. that's about how long it will take you to reach the BR cap. and then what? see my point?

I'm saying rasing the BR cap will make it harder for newB's and won't really solve anything. it's really much harder when you only have 2 or 3 certs. the solution is in REAL competition, not giving another goal that will be reached within several months at most. hell, unless they reset every BR20's XP to exactly what it takes for BR20, you're probably already there.

currently the XP system is a "race against the clock" type of race, no real opponent. they need to create competition among the players.

[Kikinchikin]

Those 2 guys having that cert combination SHOULD be able to blow gens/spawn tubes right and left, as they are devoting 3/4 of their certs to support/infiltration. But give them a squad thats defending the base and they are nothing but a standard grunt again. ALWAYS a counter, and many of them in this case.

And it's not hurting the noobs at all. That's the main thing about PS: you can kill a br 20 at br 5 just as well as anything (assuming they are wearing equal armor). Here's what I've noticed about the demographics of this game since May 20th.

May 20th- July- everyone is equal more or less. No "veterans" or n00bs really.
July- September- many players playing since may are leaving, influx of n00bs happens.
September to november- mass exodos of vets, n00bs are pouring in.
November to present- more n00bs coming and fewer vets staying.

That was posted just to reinforce this point. If people who have been playing since May aren't getting any new goals, then at some point it is going to get repetitive. (dont lecture about team ops, new certs; i know i've done them all). It would seem logical to reward players who have been playing since the beginning with new stuff they can attain, rather than cater to the n00bs who just joined up. (at least ethical, but its SOE so not sure how that would work =/)

Long reply, sorry heh.

[Firefly]

want one example? 2 guys get these certs:
-ATV
-Cloack
-CE
-adv. hack
-heavy assault
-rexo
-ams

they can destroy the gen and spawns, then hack the base and defend it from the few guys who manage to sneak in, while getting support through the AMS. that's just one example.
Or one guy, like myself, can get the following:
Skip the ATV, they blow. Infiltration suit, Hack and Advanced hacking, Engineering, Combat Engineering, Reinforced Exosuit. I can spend the other certs on whatever I want, whenever I want (24-hour grace notwithstanding). I can destroy the gens and spawn tubes and hack the base, plus defend it through the use of Boomer mines and other assorted nastiness, like one of my locker-chock-full-of Magscatter handcannons. I can also defend through the tactical implementation of the rest of my squad. My squad trumps one uber-soldier full of BR58 toys.

I don't need BR20 to attain this, I've had it since at least BR16 (that I can remember). I also have Medium Assault and I switch back and forth between Heavy Assault, Special Assault, and Air Cav.

So this argument has no merit or weight to convince me that post-BR20 advancement is going to create super-soldiers.

[DeadTeddy]

any soldier that needs no more then 20 seconds to get himself back to full health and armor, has rexo and good weapons, and can hack and deploy ACE's is basiclly too much. for example, I am a BR5, I have nothing but MA, AV, and a car cert. we exchange shots at a range of 50~ meters. you just deploy a spit fire, and while I'm busy trying to get rid of the blasted thing you are already back to full health. again, just one example. I can't rush you because of the spit, I have to take out my phoenix and take it out first.

[KIAsan]

Deadteddy, we already have that in game now at br20. I like post br20 advancement under the current system, because it does not make uber leet soliders. Yeah, we have even more certs, but as pointed out earlier, we can only load up so much gear, and there is always a counter. The way some of you talk, you would think BR20s never die. But, this is not a one-on-one game, it's a team game. So, no matter how many br58s we have, the other two empires will also have their share.

However, you don't have to really worry about more certs. The way the devs are leaning is to add "special abilities" to br20s. Now that will really stink. Think about it, at br20, lets say they give me barrel rolls. And maybe my ability to barrel roll my mossy make it impossible for your br5 mossy guy to own me. Now what would you say? Special abilities would be unfair. Yet, that is the way the devs are leaning right now. I would much rather just have simple post-br20 advancement under the current rules. It would be very balanced, and serve to keep veteran players in the game.

[Firefly]

any soldier that needs no more then 20 seconds to get himself back to full health and armor, has rexo and good weapons, and can hack and deploy ACE's is basiclly too much.
So then we should knock the BR down to under BR13?

Because you can do this with 16 cert points.

[Kikinchikin]

teddy im not sure what more you can ask for. PS's big thing was, unlike any other MMO out there, the lowest level has the same health (barring armor) as the highest. Therefore, who dies in a fire fight is based on skill. What you cited was a unique instance, where the soldier who had more abilities could win. But to be unique again, my counter is that you could:

A. Hide behind a tree and take the spit out. (works especially well since ur using a phoenix (guided missiles))
B. Then kill the guy.

Again this will involve who has more skill, as you will have to be a better shot to get the better of him.

Bottom line is: More certs=more toys for higher br's. Skill=the real determining factor in whos good.

[Angel_of_Death]

teddy im not sure what more you can ask for. PS's big thing was, unlike any other MMO out there, the lowest level has the same health (barring armor) as the highest. Therefore, who dies in a fire fight is based on skill. What you cited was a unique instance, where the soldier who had more abilities could win. But to be unique again, my counter is that you could:

A. Hide behind a tree and take the spit out. (works especially well since ur using a phoenix (guided missiles))
B. Then kill the guy.

Again this will involve who has more skill, as you will have to be a better shot to get the better of him.

Bottom line is: More certs=more toys for higher br's. Skill=the real determining factor in whos good.

Whoever dies in a firefight is only based on skill if: -the 2 fighters have the same gun, same armor, same health, and no implants.
Otherwise it is based on who is the higher level with the more and better certs.

For teddy's example, while you're guiding that phoenix missile in to the spit, what's to say he's not surging his ass over to your unprotected self (and say it was a medium-long range guass/cycler fight), pulling out his MCG and ripping you apart?

Another example would be while you two were exchanging fire, and say you are better than him and for every 5 damage he does to you, you do 15 to him, he can just hide, heal, repair, whip out some implants (personal shield, surge, regeneration, whatever)and he's back in.

Obviously, skill is the real determining factor in who's good...that's just a definition. But skill is only one factor in to who wins a battle. IMO, experience comes ahead of skill, and abilities (certifications, implants) before both.

[KIAsan]

Angel, everything you say is true, but it is all IN THE GAME NOW. Adding additional certs for above br20's won't change anything, other than give us at br20 something else to shoot for.

Having a goal is what we are really talking about (a reason to keep playing). I'm not arguing for more implants. I'm not arguing for "special abilities". I want everything to stay the same, except allow post-br20 advancement. I'm a br20 now, and if I work a couple of months, I might make br21. So, give me an additional cert point. No harm to anyone, but alot of good for the game.

Lets put this into context for those who haven't reached br20. For me, unless I am working for my outfit mates (which is the only reason I stay), there is absolutley NO reason to do anything in game to help anyone. There is no reason to cap a base. No reason to defend. No reason to fix that Gen or run that mod. If I logon, and noone from my outfit is online, I just loner it. Going where my mood takes me. Pretty much ignoring the game picture. Why, because there is no reason for me to do otherwise. I end up most nights grabbing a flail, because thats what I want to do this week. I don't have a spotter, because I don't really care. I may go with the zerg and blow up an enemy tower, until I get bored, then I deconstruct my flail and move on. I could really care less if the empire capped the tower. Heck, if I get bored, I just leave the battle. This is what I am talking about. There are lots of disillusioned BR20s out there, similar to myself. And what happens later on? Most folks get tired of it all and quit. So, lets do something constructive to keep veterans in-game and make it fun for all of us.

[BadAsh]

Lets put this into context for those who haven't reached br20. For me, unless I am working for my outfit mates (which is the only reason I stay), there is absolutley NO reason to do anything in game to help anyone. There is no reason to cap a base. No reason to defend. No reason to fix that Gen or run that mod. If I logon, and noone from my outfit is online, I just loner it. Going where my mood takes me. Pretty much ignoring the game picture. Why, because there is no reason for me to do otherwise. I end up most nights grabbing a flail, because thats what I want to do this week. I don't have a spotter, because I don't really care. I may go with the zerg and blow up an enemy tower, until I get bored, then I deconstruct my flail and move on. I could really care less if the empire capped the tower. Heck, if I get bored, I just leave the battle. This is what I am talking about. There are lots of disillusioned BR20s out there, similar to myself. And what happens later on? Most folks get tired of it all and quit. So, lets do something constructive to keep veterans in-game and make it fun for all of us.

I agree with this... once you "max out" your char there is this sense of... loss...? What you do from that point on lacks the purpose and meaning as it once did.

IMHO allowing Br20+ and letting people earn more certs would be better than the "special abilities" they are thinking about... both are cool to be sure. But, I perfer the added versitility the certs bring as opposed to the added POWER special abilities bring.

I know I'll get flak for this opinion... but I think CR rank should not come with special powers (EMP Blast and Orbital Strike). You should just get enhanced mapping, intel, and communication abilities only. A high level CR can almost efortlessly take out a field of carefully placed deployables and spank a stragegic enemy AMS thus single handedly turn the tide of a battle. I'm lucky enough to be in 2 great outfits... both in TR and NC... both have SEVERAL CR5's and SEVERAL more CR4's... it's amusing to play and just see a series of well places OS strikes halt an entire Zerg. It's kinds cool, and kinda lame at the same time. Better leadership tools and not Rambo abilities is my preferance.

[Veteran]

The more important issue is letting people who want to continue refining their character an avenue to do so. Once people start quitting because they beat the grind, the game goes downhill for everyone.