Consolidate AV?

[Veteran]

What if all the AV weapons were made common pool and grouped together for three certs.

Would this make AV more, less or equally attractive as Special Assault?

[GreyFlcn]

Nah

Smoke already said all AV ammo boxes were gonna get a buff.

Also mentioned Lancer is going to become more accurate

Spork already mentioned, countless times, that they are going to fix locking. Which would help the Striker.

Inbetween all that, AV should be fine.

[Veteran]

You're probably right, GreyFlcn.

But wouldn't it be cool to have the option for the right AV weapon for a given situation?

That's why I say Phoenix owns. Decimator compliments it perfectly.

[xmodum]

But , dont u think it would be weird if the NC can get as many Lancers as VS use now even with it being theirs? no way .. ill stick to my deci and my pheonix

[JuSTCHiLLiN]

I like my decimator in SA.

[JakeLogan]

nerf the deci.........to strong against maxs

[FlakMan]

Then what the hell are non-AV certed soldiers supposed to do? Throw rocks at them?

[scarpas]

:brow:

[JakeLogan]

I'm not saying kill it make it 3 shots instead of 2 make people actually work together to take down a max. make it like it was in beta you actually have to work together to take down a max. Now its just pop around corner fire one shot retreat behind corner. pop out fire another shot dead max rinse repeat.

[EarlyDawn]

Deci//Relocate

Subclass//Anti-Vehicular

END OF LINE

[I know that dosen't even begin to resemble code, just felt like doing something different]

[Rbstr]

No we need more Empirespecificness not less, but the Deci does need to be AV.

The reason AV is broken is that the striker did to much AA, and the lancer did to much AI and the Vehicles got lots more armor

The fix for AV: more AV damage for all(no AA/AI/AM damage buffs), Lancer sniper accuracy, striker lock fix, and a bit more ammo.

And we can't make the deci less Max effective, esspecialy now that maxes (most notibly the VS) are more effective/numerous.

[Jagd]

They should just make the AV ammo boxes 3x3 so you can actually carry AV without needing a ReXo to actually have a usable amount of ammo. If you look at how many tank shells can fit in a 4x4 box (100 x 100mm shells!!!) it just doesn't make sense to have 5 striker rockets in the same size package.

I still think the best solution would be to make the decimator available as part of both the Special Assault & Anti-Vehicular certs.

[Rbstr]

That my be the best solution

but thatn i would need more favs

[ghost018]

They need more Empire Specific equipment, not less. Moving Decimator to AV is fine with me, though.

ghost

[noxious]

I don't want any change as I like having access to all three SA weapons for 3 certs. However, I would agree moving deci to AV might help and even seems logical (but I don't want it too simply because I don't want to spend more cert points :p).

[ChewyLSB]

I made a topic about moving decimator to AV a couple of months ago... (along with some other changes that I thought made sense). I was assaulted with "That doesn't make any sense!" posts. Now look at it...

[Rbstr]

Moving deci to AV doesn't seem logical, its about as logical as it gets, othe thatn the fact that AV is broken and the deci is not

[SandTrout]

An idea for the lancer after it gets the accuracy buff.
Slightly decrease the Magazine(probably 4) size and increase the damage per-shot to keep it as a 1-magazine kill on MAXes. May have to add a delay between shots to balance TTK(the delay before the shot should not be increased IMO).

Oh, yeah, and move the Decie to AV already. not to mention make the repeater common-pool and AMP TR specific.

[Doop]

Nah, not if all of the weapons are getting a buff. I use my striker all the time, no one else does because it's a lot weaker now, but it's still good against vehcs and kickass against MAXes. :] 1.2 clip to take out a MAX. (I tested it)

AV MAXes on the other hand, yeah, they all suck except maybe DCycler.

[JakeLogan]

The DC is great for fighting other MAXes. I use my striker all the time it has a great fear effect, If there are alot of reavers around just lock that thing on and they run. good against maxes outside inside its still useful you just gotta work in pairs. Thats what I would like to see with the Deci people actually working together to take down a MAX. Instead of people being a 1 man Wrecking crew.

[Aurorapro]

I Personally think that the Deci should stay in SA because thats what it is a SA weapon, really how would maxes like it to be taken upon by one decimator hit with that get out of the way only to be hit up the ass by a pheonix by the same person?
Lets wait for this AV buff and then we can start making some bitching statements because if AV is still weak after that then yeah it does seem logical to change the decimator to AV but not yet im having to much fun yet :P

[Liquidtide]

I agree with most of you and say Decimator stays Special Assault, it's handy for many things like taking out Spitfires and Phalanx Turrets as well as Maxes. I think the damage to Maxes should get a tweak for a 3 shot kill.

I also think that each empire should have 2 types of AV weapons, a very powerful dumb fire or less accurate and everyone gets a lock on AV weapon. Infantry have very little defense against Planes as it is, and our AV weapons to little against them because they are hard to hit, this goes for vehicles too. I don't know how anyone uses the Lancer effectively. I know AV should be used in groups, but it would be nice to be able to scare off a mosquito once in a while without being pwned.

~Tide

[_-Gunslinger-_]

How is it fair that an infantry can grab a deci and kill any one of the maxes in 2 hits, which isn't that hard cept vs the VS, for 3 cert points and get 2 other weapons to boot when maxes cost 5 to get all three and have a timer?

Simple solution is to nerf the deci and/or put it in AV. Now for the complex solution.

Make 2 (or 3) types of armor classes. Vehicle and infantry. Infantry is all armors but MAX and everything else is vehicle (Prowler, vanguard, magrider, MAX's ect.). Make all AV weapons do normal to vehicle armor and group the deci with AV but make it do the same damage to infantry (eg. strips a player of all thier armor).

With this system you gain a versitile cert at taking out armor. Which is what that weapon class is supposed to do. You also are gaining TWO weapons for three certs in both SA and AV. Seems fair to me.

The only thing that I see inbalancing about this is that the Rexo buff may be completly undone by a change like that. If players can take out rexos armor with a deci then they are weaker than a standard. The question then becomes: Is the ablility to carry 2 weapons and more armor equivilant to the previously stated AV system?
I think so.

Opinions?

[Gigabein]

not to mention make the repeater common-pool and AMP TR specific.

OT, sorry, but wow. You have some kind of vendetta against VS infils?

[SpunkJackel]

Well, I hope the Deci does not get moved to AV. I am a avid user of the radiator as few people ever see it in battle and react very poorly to it resulting in easy kills for me. If deci got moved I'd have to spend more certs on AV that I don't have.

And the damage to MAX suits is fine. There are more MAXes now then ever. If lets say a MAX could take three deci's instead of 2. Damm, that means if I only have one full deci on me I can't miss one shot. Not to mention I still have to deal with the NC MAX shield. A MAX can still get hella kills and must be efective in some way or else why would so many poeple be using them? IF you start taking away their weaknesses we'll all be standing around the CC in MAX suits spamming "We Need a Hacker!"

err..wait..thats after we found a way past all the door locks

[_-Gunslinger-_]

Well, I hope the Deci does not get moved to AV. I am a avid user of the radiator as few people ever see it in battle and react very poorly to it resulting in easy kills for me. If deci got moved I'd have to spend more certs on AV that I don't have.

And the damage to MAX suits is fine. There are more MAXes now then ever. If lets say a MAX could take three deci's instead of 2. Damm, that means if I only have one full deci on me I can't miss one shot. Not to mention I still have to deal with the NC MAX shield. A MAX can still get hella kills and must be efective in some way or else why would so many poeple be using them? IF you start taking away their weaknesses we'll all be standing around the CC in MAX suits spamming "We Need a Hacker!"

Medium Assault - Med range
Special Assault - AV + 2 Good zerg supressers
Engineering - Repair
Hacking - Hack stuff
Advanced Hacking - Hack more stuff
Reinforced ExoSuit - Allows simultanious us of SA and HA + that deci
Heavy Assault - In base fighting
Assault Buggy - Decent vehicle

Hmm thats a versitile setup. You can kill infantry very effectivly. The thresher is good transport and can kill infantry. SA kills infantry (Minus the Deci). Umm looks to me like your build allows you to kill infantry very effectivly. Why the hell should you get an AV weapon without having to spend the certs for it? And if you were to have to drop SA for AV you would still retain a large amount of killing power.

Maxes require time to get back. And if you happen to run into TWO deci users your a dead wo/man. Now you need to wait. Unlike those three infantry you killed, who can just respawn and go back out.

[Veteran]

I chuckle to think of the time when you could launch all of the Decimator's rounds in about one second because of a bug. People called it a nerf when they fixed the bug. People just don't tend to grasp game balance if it affects an easy source of kills.

[SpunkJackel]

Gunslinger, you are right my setup allows me to kill infantry with really no problem. The Deci allows me to kill everything else with really no problem. If I lose the Deci I lose allot of my versitality. I like the way things are now so I don't want a change.

With all honesty maybe I do have it too easy. If the the Deci was moved to AV I'd give up SA and follow it there no problem. But as long as there are so many MAX, sometimes more than there are anything else, I won't agree to the decrese in Deci damage to MAXes.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Then what the hell are non-AV certed soldiers supposed to do? Throw rocks at them?

Well sure, if that's what you want to do. :lol:

But the fact is that if they did more the decimator to AV, and your not AV-Cert and you want to kill Maxes & Armour, then why didn't you get AV?

Simple fact, that I don't think Anti-Armour weaponary should be an assault weapon, It isn't! If you got a Max or Armour lumbering towards you, you better hope you got a AV-Cert Trooper in your mist.

:rolleyes:

[_-Gunslinger-_]

With all honesty maybe I do have it too easy. If the the Deci was moved to AV I'd give up SA and follow it there no problem. But as long as there are so many MAX, sometimes more than there are anything else, I won't agree to the decrese in Deci damage to MAXes.

Glad you see my point.

[SandTrout]

There would need to be a change to SA weapons if they moved the deci, IMO. They should increase the armor damage of the HE grenades and mini-rockets by some.

The HE AV damage is currently 100 I beieve, and the rocklet is 50. Increase the HE to 150-200 AV damage and the Rocklet to 75-100 AV damage. This seems fair, but I am open to critisism on it.

[Gigabein]

I find it amusing that a non-AV cert weapon is the most popular choice for killing vehicles

[ChewyLSB]

The fact of the matter is, is that an infantry should have a hard time killing a MAX. It's absolutely ridiculous tha one INFANTRY can take out an ANTI-INFANTRY MAX without a problem. And without even the Anti-Vehicle cert! I also find it amusing that the best weapon against vehicles ISN'T EVEN IN THE ANTI-VEHICULAR CERTIFICATION.

Someone explain that to me.

[Veteran]

The fact that you asked the question answers it, young padawan ChewyLSB.

[Jagd]

If you want to kill vehicles while soloing, pick up a Reaver or a Lighning. That's pretty much what is intended.

[Rbstr]

The Reaver does a good job, but you can't always count on one being there to take out that tank, and even then you need to use almost all of your rockets to do so, so it takes a while.

If a rl Soldier takes his spanking new Recoiless rifle and aims it at a tank and hits it, that tank is down. As it is you can sire a whole Reinforced armors worth of pheonixes and kill a tank

[Jagd]

But they don't want one infantryman easily taking out a vehicle which requires the co-ordination of multiple players. The counter to vehicles, is still more vehicles. The only single-passenger rides that have the firepower to really take on enemy vehicles are the Lightning and the Reaver, which are both relatively fragile and easily countered.

If you look at in terms of the balance between one player vs multiple other players, it starts making a lot more sense. One player should not be able to successfully spoil the party for 2 or more others by destroying the ride they just drove across the continent.

[EarlyDawn]

But they don't want one infantryman easily taking out a vehicle which requires the co-ordination of multiple players. The counter to vehicles, is still more vehicles. The only single-passenger rides that have the firepower to really take on enemy vehicles are the Lightning and the Reaver, which are both relatively fragile and easily countered.

If you look at in terms of the balance between one player vs multiple other players, it starts making a lot more sense. One player should not be able to successfully spoil the party for 2 or more others by destroying the ride they just drove across the continent.Indeed. A careful balance must be struck. However, as it is now, AV sucks. They need to move the Deci into AV, make it one shot and do, say, 550 damage for a direct hit. Give it very little splash based on the shaped charge missle concept. Then buff overall AV damage.

IMO, Decimators should be for AV guys who want to carry the AV as a secondary just in case the vehicles show up, and can keep it in their inv, or who plan on keeping more in the trunk. The empire-specific AVs should be for dedicated tank-killers.

[GreyFox]

The decimator shouldn't be moved to AV. The AV weapons should be fixed, the lancer accuracy increased, striker missile lock etc. And increase the damage a bit on all AV weapons except the Decimator (which fits into the special assault more then AV).

[EarlyDawn]

How do you figure? The only thing that makes the decimator remotely "special" is it's disposable nature and is akin to the U.S. LAW. I'm not saying change it's nature, although 1/launcher would be nice with buffed damage, I'm saying put it in the class that suits it.

[Queensidecastle]

I agree ChewyLSB. MAXs should be a hell of a lot harder to kill than they are currently. I honestly dont know why anyone plays anything other than an AA MAX ever. It is so easy to kill MAXs they might as well be non-cloaked Infiltrators running around. That is why they need to reduce the damage decimators do to MAXs so that you need more than a single Deci to kill one. They also need to buff AV but w/out increasing the damage they currently do to MAXs

[Rbstr]

but think of it this way too, VS have HUGE amounts of maxes fielded when you assult a base, or are getting assulted, it would be impossible to defeat or defend from the VS then. Most Maxes are well balenced, with the notible exception of the AV's that can't do much to moving vechs and TR's AI'AV wierdness

[Veteran]

VS AV MAX is good. It's deliberately included in VS MAX crash raids.

[Rbstr]

iI said while moving, if your not moving is slaughters but most of the time all i have to do is drive around and i don't get hit

[SandTrout]

I don't see why the Deci was placed in SA in the first place. It is a dedicated anti-vehicular missle launcher that does less than crap to infantry. The rest of the SA weapons strike some sort of balance between their AI and AV potential.

Here's an idea on MAXes: make it so that when the armor is stripped, the MAX pilot recieces normal infantry damage. This means that decies do 50 damage after armor is stripped, but normal AI rounds do much more damage than they would have to the armor. Not sure how this would work due to network and programing issues, but it's an idea.

[Queensidecastle]

No, I just dont agree. The decimator is too powerfull against MAXs. You should not be able to kill a full MAX in 6 seconds with a weapon that only takes 3 boxs of inventory space. I think 4 rounds from a Decimator(s) is much more acceptable. At least this way you have to "reload". MAXs have a vehicle timer because they are supposed to kick ass. They dont kick ass. AI MAXs are good at killing infantry except you could kill just as many with HA and not have to wait for 5 minute times and be able to hack, repair, heal, gun for vehicles...etc. AV MAXs can only do 1 thing and thats kill other MAXs which isnt needed to begin with. AA MAXs rock and are the only successfull implementation of the MAX suit. MAXs should be feared and very difficult to deal with. In the current state of the game MAXs are a joke and are no more difficult to deal with than Infiltrators

[Veteran]

I for one hope AV gets buffed to the point where it's a tough choice between Deci and empire AV.

[Queensidecastle]

I agree with that and to add further, I would like to see it where AV is always the best choice for attacks on armor. The Decimator in the SA classification is supposed to be the less effective common-pool solution to AV, instead it is better than all AV :mad:

[Rbstr]

that would be ideal

[Gunslanger]

bah, someone stole my name :p