Ammo changes posted!

[EarlyDawn]

Actually, the ammo pass started because we realized that some weapons ran out of ammo VERY quickly in the field (Rocklet) and some weapons never seemed to EVER run out of ammo (Shotguns). That got us started looking around to figure out the balance of "battlefield potential". That was a measure of balancing the total amount of damage you could do with the ammo in your inventory versus the amount of time you could stay in the battlefield without rearming yourself.
Tricky balancing, but it showed some obvious things that needed work. (And which we've fixed.)

Anyway...here's some numbers for you. (Not everything is listed here. This is just skimming the top of the changes.)

==============================
Hand-Held Ammo Changes

* Rocklet: Old - 6; New - 15 (per ammo box). Rocklet users won't run out of shells so fast. Makes the weapon more attractive. (This also enhances the Punisher.)

* Thumper: Old - 6; New - 12 (per ammo box). Allows more variety in what grenades to carry because you can carry more of them. By loosening up inventory, this makes this weapon more useful. (This also enhances the Punisher.)

* Bolt Driver: Old - 5; New - 10 (per ammo box). Snipers can stay out in the field longer. They won't feel so required to bring an AMS out with them when going sniping because they can carry twice as much ammo now as previously.

* Striker: Old - 5; New - 15 (per ammo box).
* Phoenix: Old - 3; New - 9 (per ammo box).
* Lancer: Old - 6; New - 18 (per ammo box).
The AV weapons suffered from not being able to carry enough ammunition for the player to feel like they were effective in the field. By the time they fired all their ordnance, they had only killed a couple things. This helps in that regard. (NOTE: In no way is this intended as a major AV buff. This just resolves a specific issue. Don't even bother typing the words "that's not enough of a buff for AV". ; )

* Hand Grenades: Now come in clips of three. Yes, Virginia...there is a Santa. Infiltrators, rejoice. Same inventory requirement, but instead of one grenade, you get three.

* Shotgun shells: Old - 30; New - 16 (per ammo box). Shotguns were vastly overpowered in terms of damage potential for the load carried and how long the user could stay afield using that ammo. This brings it back down into balance. (But it just brings them down to about the same damage potential and inventory requirements as other weapons...it's not really much of a nerf.)

=================================
Vehicle Weapon Clip Size Changes
NOTE: Most of these are *downward* changes, which forces you to reload more often. This seems like a nerf, but it's not much of one. You just have to reload once in a while now. The real BUFF that's coming is seen below in the Vehicle Ammo Box Size Changes section. Trust me...it's good.

Basilisk: Was 250, now 100
Deliverer: Was 250, now 100
Harasser: Was 250, now 150
Liberator (rear gun only): Was 250, now 150
Lightning (20mm only): Was 250, now 150
Magrider (PPA only): Was 250, now 150
Marauder (GroundPounder): Was 20, NOW 50!!!
Marauder (12mm): Was 250, now 150
Mosquito: Was 250, now 150
Prowler: (machinegun only): Was 250, now 200.
Vanguard: (machinegun only): Was 250, now 200.

Vehicle Ammo Box Size Changes
==================================
These are the changes that will let you spray more lead around and stay in the field longer.

* 20mm ammo: Was 100, now 200. (affects Basilisk, Deliverer Lightning, Skyguard, Vanguard)

* 12mm ammo: Was 100, now 300. (affects Harasser, Mosquito, Prowler, Marauder).

* Liberator bombs: Was 10, now 20.

* 25mm (Liberator tailgun): Was 100, now 150.

* GroundPounder: Was 50, now 100.

* Flux cannon: Was 50, now 150.

* 150mm cannon: Was 100, now 50. (Yes...this is a nerf. Go ahead and post about it. *sigh*) The Vanguard's ammo supply was far, far in advance of its other-Empire competitors. This is balanced out now.

===================================
Whew. Okay...that's long enough for one post.

I'll be reading your replies. Thanks (in advance) for your comments. I hope you like the changes, but if you don't, I'm sure you'll let us know.


Link (http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum16/HTML/001554.html)

[EarlyDawn]

Other changes coming include:
* TR MAX Dual-Cycler is now Anti-Infantry.

* TR MAX Pounder is now Anti-Vehicle. It's projectiles have been given extra accelerant and now fire in a flatter, longer trajectory with higher projectile velocity. The warheads have been changed to punch through armor. The Pounder is now sort of almost a light tank cannon now.

* Lancer: Reduced the COF enlargement caused by turning. It's projectile speed is slightly faster as well. This allows it to be more accurate and lets the Lancer capitalize on its "direct-line of fire" capability, making it more effective.

* VS MAX (all): The COF of VS MAXs doesn't enlarge as quickly now while jumping. This allows them to more easily utilize their weaponry while in the air.

* TR MAX (all): Anchoring and unanchoring is *slightly* faster now. This reduces the vulnerability window for those MAXs while anchored.

* Decimator moved to AV.

* Maelstrom grenade now costs 10 energy instead of 5 energy to fire. The original cost was too low for balance. That became obvious during the balance pass.

* Hand-held AT weapons are getting "recharge capacitor units" (read that as "ammo") that you can buy at AT equip terms or at facilities with the Equipment Terminal module benefit. This allows them to be recharged in the field, making these weapons more attractive.

* TR Burster will only do direct damage to non-aircraft targets. No more spamming the infantry with it. You can still kill tanks and infantry...but not with those huge explosions.

* Jackhammer is getting an automatic relaod after firing its tri-barrel shot. This reload can't be avoided. It's the drawback to the gigantic damage caused by the tri-barrel. Fire the tri-barrel, then wait for reload before you can fire again.

SPECIAL NOTE: Not all of these changes listed here will be in the same patch. I'm just listing them for a completeness view. The patch in QA currently has NONE of these changes. You'll start seeing them in the next patch thereafter.
Nice Pounder changes

[Biohazzard56]

Wow :jawdrop:

[TheRagingGerbil]

Nice!

[Madcow]

Wow, time to actually re-create my infil favorite with nothing but grenades. Now it will actually be possible to have fun for a period of time without running out of ammo after just a couple of kills.

[ChemicalHex]

Excellent! :thumbsup:

[Firefly]

Fuckin.

Rock.

On.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Yay! For Vanu! The Future is PURPLE!

[EarlyDawn]

Nvm.

[Firefly]

Purple as in, your face turns purple when the Red-and-Black strangle you all with our balance *AND* better organization.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Now all we have to complain about is: When. are. the. patches. COMING?! >.<

[Rbstr]

YEAHHHWAWHRKWAHF!!!

Now i have more sniper ammo and can do more vech damage, and can carry monre nades! (liek he said it isn't enough of an AV buff but its relay on the way)

[dscytherulez]

TR Burster will only do direct damage to non-aircraft targets. No more spamming the infantry with it. You can still kill tanks and infantry...but not with those huge explosions.

That fucking sucks. I loved that max...now its going to be total shit. You know how hard it is to hit infantry with that thing? Not to mention you cant be within 7 meters! THATS GAY...If this happens why doesn't the sparrow lose its splash damage?!

Edit: BTW I love the other changes...this one just pissed me off.

[ViperGTS]

Holy shit....this make me want to re subscribe.........and thats a big thing because I have to play with 256 ram......

[Red October]

I thought this was refering to Cows...

But as for the ammo change.... :drools:

[Rbstr]

but the Other maxes are gettig buffed

[MilitantB0B]

Wow, this ALMOST makes up for the SA nerf. *grumble* *grunlbe* yeah I know, it was proably for the best, and I'm getting over it.

AKA, How I Learned to Stop bitching and Love The Pheonix

[ChemicalHex]

I especially like the TR MAX changes. The dual cycler going back to being AI is good news. I thought the devs were going to change the Pounder from launching grenades to being a sort of double rocklet? Oh well, I'll have to see how good it is when it hits the test server. The BD ammo buff is nice as well. Now I can be twice as effective as before. Very nice news indeed.

[EarlyDawn]

I thought this was refering to Cows...

But as for the ammo change.... :drools:What are you talking about? :confused:












:p

[TheRagingGerbil]

Three words...Holy Sniper Buff

Phear me for I will be in the field longer. Oh, and expect me to throw that much more lead at you because I can afford to waste it now. Muhhhahhaa!

PS - Hmm, Do you guys realize that a rexo can now carry up to 96 grenades? That is freaking insane. To bad we couldn't strap a boomer to our ass and run into a crowded spawn hmm?

PPS - Now if only they can take care of that damned CP popup...

[JakeLogan]

Finally I loved my AI DC MAX (back in beta) there are 2 things I don't like though the VS COF improvement when jumping and the burster thingy (I don't want to say "nerf")
I've always thought the VS MAx shouldn't be able to fire when jumping but whatever.

[Queensidecastle]

All of those changes are great except of course the SA nerf. Maybe the Devs will buff AV before they move the Decimator so that the SA users wont be taking it over a barrel. I do support the Burster nerf since the other TR MAXs are getting much overdue appropriate buffs and the Burster should be firing on aircraft anyway. The Dual Cycler is going to be fearsome like the Quasar now and the Lockdown buff could be nice

[Madcow]

I have no problem with the VS MAX firing while jumping, I've done it plenty of times myself, but I can't believe they're actually buffing the COF in that situation. The COF never got that bad anyhow, and considering you're in a giant metal suit 50 m above the surface of the planet and moving constantly I'd have to think that aiming would be a bit harder that it already is.

[Jagd]

Well I have to say I feel kind of silly after getting so upset about the Decimator move. If they had just waited to announce it until they had all of this info, it wouldn't have seemed such a big deal. I guess it's supposed to be good PR to leak bits out early?!

[Mag]

You notice, other than the pheonix, nothing really went well for the NC here...

[Spee]

"not a significant buff to AV" my foot.


Whats NOT a buff about being able to shoot more projectiles, instead of less?

[Onizuka-GTO]

You notice, other than the pheonix, nothing really went well for the NC here...

Hehehe.... I know. Refreshing isn't it? Who gets the last laugh NOW?!

Muwahahaha! *throws a purple technophile inscribed ipod*

:D

[Mognoc]

* Shotgun shells: Old - 30; New - 16 (per ammo box). Shotguns were vastly overpowered in terms of damage potential for the load carried and how long the user could stay afield using that ammo. This brings it back down into balance. (But it just brings them down to about the same damage potential and inventory requirements as other weapons...it's not really much of a nerf.) NOT much of a nerf? They better leave the AP boxes alone. When I take down MAXes with my Jackhammer (I'm not a surge monkey) I almost always have to reload because I'm empty or have 1 or 2 shots left. And only sixteen boxes sounds like they're putting a limit on them for the surgiles who take down six or so guys, so they have to fill their inventory with boxes to be able to do that...Or maybe thats just me. I always find myself having to reload after every encounter...I don't agree with this one.

[kreeten]

God, lemme catch you now on a reload surgiles. As a regular user of the Rocklit, FUK YA! :)

[Warborn]

That fucking sucks. I loved that max...now its going to be total shit. You know how hard it is to hit infantry with that thing? Not to mention you cant be within 7 meters! THATS GAY...If this happens why doesn't the sparrow lose its splash damage?!

Edit: BTW I love the other changes...this one just pissed me off.

An anti-air MAX having a hard time killing infantry? That doesn't sound too out of line to me.

[ChemicalHex]

Keep in mind that for shotguns, the ammo box size is decreasing, not the clip size. JH users can still pave through 4 people in one run, they just can't do it quite as often.

[Madcow]

The shotgun ammo change was very necessary. Carrying a Sweeper or JH afforded you the luxury to carry more medkits/Decis/grenades/etc. than other gun users. I always wondered about it, just never thought enough about it to bring it up.

[Incompetent]

I find it interesting they refer to the lightning cannon as a 20 instead of a 12. Good stuff overall though, the pain over my deci isn't so bad anymore now that the striker can sustain fire.

[Warborn]

I find it interesting they refer to the lightning cannon as a 20 instead of a 12. Good stuff overall though, the pain over my deci isn't so bad anymore now that the striker can sustain fire.

A part of me cringes inside at the kind of sustained artillery-sniper fire Phoenixes will be able to do with a clip thrice as large as before. On the other hand, another other part of me is busy getting his expanded sniper rifle cliips packed for the inevitable burst of Phoenix user activity this change will likely produce.

I agree though, good changes overall.

[dscytherulez]

No, both the starfire and sparrow can hold their own against infantry, and it took 25 shots of close proximity flak to kill infantry before, and now it will be basically impossible. Thats BS considering you have to be far enough away that the flak even actually explodes!

[TheN00b]

:tear: , My poor. dying SA... Apart from that, all the changes are great.

[Lithpope]

All in all good changes I just have one disagreement. If they insist on anchoring TR MAX's (I still dislike this) they should make it an instant or near instant anchor like the other empire's have on thier special abilities.

[GreyFox]

Changing the ammo boxes should not take so much "coding", they will probably only need to change in a database file or something. So it should go quick.

So this could arrive quickly after the next patch, unless there is other stuff that needs heavy testing/programming time.

[Rbstr]

The pheonix has no clip man, just baoxes of ammo, it will be fun to have 27 rounds though, i can finaly kill tanks 9 judt can't do the trick(9 = an ant)

But more ammo doen't make that much of a diffence when you look at damage, all the AV whiel havving bigger boxes whon't relay do much more damage than before

[Riyu]

O.M.F.G.

90 sniper bullets in Agile... 120 sniper bullets in Rexo...

[Peacemaker]

WTF!? Its all great till I get to the whole VS MAX BUFF (yes its a fucking buff). They are getting more accurate for using their special ability!? Son of a.... Also the burster MAX getting the nerf stick. Those god damn AA maxs for VS and NC can drop an infantry with no problem if they dont have a deci. That burster was the only good thing we had going for us. Spork screwed up on ammo box sizes for the vehicles. He didnt mention if the Reaver's 20s would be affected (thank the lord if they are), he put bassilik which is 12 mm under 20's and did the same with the lightning.

[Warborn]

O.M.F.G.

90 sniper bullets in Agile... 120 sniper bullets in Rexo...

You carry nothing but sniper bullets? Not even a medkit or hack tool?

The pheonix has no clip man, just baoxes of ammo, it will be fun to have 27 rounds though, i can finaly kill tanks 9 judt can't do the trick(9 = an ant)

Clip, box, whatever.

But more ammo doen't make that much of a diffence when you look at damage, all the AV whiel havving bigger boxes whon't relay do much more damage than before

It's not about damage, it's about frequency. A lot of people probably don't use a wider variety of weapons, like the Rocklet gun or Thumper (though the latter to a lesser extent) because of how quickly they run out of ammo. Same goes for AV weapons. Give them more ammo and people get more application out of them, thus making them a more worthwhile addition to your loadout.

[KIAsan]

Wow, JH, vanguard getting nerfs. Never thought I would see the day. But I do morn the burster nerf. At least we are getting a bunch of buffs though.

[Black]

SWEEET looks like they doin great job!
:evil:

[EarlyDawn]

O.M.F.G.

90 sniper bullets in Agile... 120 sniper bullets in Rexo...Trunk. :lol: :D

[Kaymon]

That fucking sucks. I loved that max...now its going to be total shit. You know how hard it is to hit infantry with that thing? Not to mention you cant be within 7 meters! THATS GAY...If this happens why doesn't the sparrow lose its splash damage?!

Edit: BTW I love the other changes...this one just pissed me off.

The change is so that it will be used as intended. Frankly, I agree with it. Be nice to see a feild of DC max's pissing lead everywhere again.

[NoSurrender]

wow finally. Ive been grumbling to myself like god damn SOE. They havent patched since santa hats and now we got this awesome patch inc.

[SaKeN]

Death...to....SURGILES!!!

Im actually happy NC are getting a type of nerf (yes I am NC too) this will get rid of all the (excuse my language lol) dumbassess and noobs that come to NC only cause of our overpowered weapons.. I can see in the near-future NC population is going to go down some (again, good thing.. gets rid of TKers and the millions of surgiles that give us a bad name)

[Dharkbayne]

What I carry, is a Sniper rifle, REk, and AMP, AMP has no extra ammo, just for 1v1 with cloakers, I carry just ammo, I usually drop in trees to snipe anyways, so cloakers can't really sneak up on me

[Unknown]

I honestly don't see what the big deal with the Burster is. The way I understood it, the shells will no longer burst on impact, but now impact will do damage instead (so you will be able to kill infantry within 7m now). If anything, it's a buff for the MAX indoors, esp towers. I always thought the flak should only blow in proximity to aircraft and not on impact. Never made much sense to me the way it was, and if that is indeed how it will be now then I see nothing wrong with it personally.

[Warborn]

What I carry, is a Sniper rifle, REk, and AMP, AMP has no extra ammo, just for 1v1 with cloakers, I carry just ammo, I usually drop in trees to snipe anyways, so cloakers can't really sneak up on me

Didn't you say you just turned around 180 and fired your bolt driver to handle cloakers? Without even needing to turn on Darklight, as I recall?

[Dharkbayne]

Yeah, but if that doesn't work, always nice to have a side arm, even if they do take forever to draw, or if you've just fired your shot

[WritheNC]

* Striker: Old - 5; New - 15 (per ammo box).
* Phoenix: Old - 3; New - 9 (per ammo box).
* Lancer: Old - 6; New - 18 (per ammo box).
The AV weapons suffered from not being able to carry enough ammunition for the player to feel like they were effective in the field. By the time they fired all their ordnance, they had only killed a couple things. This helps in that regard.

Bad day to have Uni-max cert :D

[Zatrais]

Good changes all around, assuming they nerf the burster after changing the other MAXs suits. Well bet the NC will be the most pissed bout it since most of the negative effects are aimed at them.

[Happy lil Elf]

Good changes all around. AV and SA ammo limitations made them very unappealing for many people. The shotty changes may put a dent in the surge+JH people although who knows. Personally the icing on the cake is the vehicle ammo changes though.

[Rbstr]

Man i can't wait to have 27 pheonix missles in my Primary config, and my sniper will rarly have to resuply with 50 rounds now

[BDMJ]

I think they should have gone the other way with the shotgun ammo. Instead of decreasing the ammo per shotgun box they should increase the ammo per 9mm box. With the current box sizes the 9mm weapons do run out of ammo much faster, but perhaps it would be better to increase potential time in field for all weapons than decrease it for one.

[ANaKeR]

The biggest problem that i have with AV such as the striker, is the size of the ammo boxes. If they were the standard sizes i would get it but because they are oddly shaped, they kick out a lot of other important inventory items leaving some wasted space left behind. In my optinion the amount of rockets shouldnt change, just the size of the crate. :doh:

[TheN00b]

You know, thats a valid point. For example, mebbe Pheonix should have 5-missile packs, but be normal size. It'd really be the same, and it wouldn't leave wasted space.

[Jagd]

Yup, as long as they're 4x4, AV will still be unusable with Agile armor.

[Warborn]

I'd prefer if they just shrunk the AV ammo boxes to 2x2 and kept the capacity the same. Would make inventory management less of a hassle while at the same time letting you carry more AV rounds.

[Fenrys]

All excelent changes, although I am a bit dissapointed to hear about the boxes of shotgun shells. My support favorite includes a Sweeper with a single box of ammo as its only armaments.

[Madcow]

All excelent changes, although I am a bit dissapointed to hear about the boxes of shotgun shells. My support favorite includes a Sweeper with a single box of ammo as its only armaments.

That's the kind of thing I think they're hoping to avoid.

[Jagd]

The sweeper will still have 3 full clips (so 3+ kills) with only one box of ammo, keeping its status as the most ammo efficient weapon in the game.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

DId you know that the pular is now the best MA? With the right timing one can shoot at rexo's with the AP rounds and then toggle thier pwnage rounds to finish them off. Im gonna have to calculate the ttk time agains new rexos with this method!

Im glad that those ammo buffs are goning through. Looks like the NC are gonna get used to that gauss of thiers.

Why shouldnt VS maxes be able to shoot and actually hit something while evading? Its not like the max's COF donsnt bloom at all its just blooming less.

[Queensidecastle]

Why shouldnt VS maxes be able to shoot and actually hit something while evading? Its not like the max's COF donsnt bloom at all its just blooming less.
I found this change quite odd. I had no trouble hitting anything while jetting in my VS MAX suits

[SandTrout]

Any veteran Tribes or Tribes 2 player can easaly use the VS MAXes while airborn aganinst the ground-bound opponents, particulary the commet. I have a VS Uni-max on my account and find that its not hard at all to hit things while airborn. Easier to hit things than when the NC MAX shield is runing anyways. NC can move, but they can't fire with their shield up, and the TR can fire uber fast, but can't move while they are anchored. The VS can fire and move effecitvely, along with haveing great weapons and better turning speed.

[Firefly]

When I played Mechwarrior, I used Jumpjets to evade fire, and I simultaneously engaged targets. I don't see a problem with it, except that every other weapon's COF turns into a huge spread when you so much as fart.

[BDMJ]

As far as maxes go, the VS unquestionably have the best maxes in terms of effectiveness and fun.

Shield = lame

Lockdown = lame

Jumpjets = badass

[Fenrys]

I kinda like the NC shield. Its very usefull for MAX crashes.

It lets you run all the way to the spawn room without being crippled on your way in.

[_-Gunslinger-_]

Any veteran Tribes or Tribes 2 player can easaly use the VS MAXes while airborn aganinst the ground-bound opponents, particulary the commet. I have a VS Uni-max on my account and find that its not hard at all to hit things while airborn. Easier to hit things than when the NC MAX shield is runing anyways. NC can move, but they can't fire with their shield up, and the TR can fire uber fast, but can't move while they are anchored. The VS can fire and move effecitvely, along with haveing great weapons and better turning speed.

I played Tribes 1 shifter/bio all the time (still do cuz its just so fucking fun) and I dont have a problem. However I know that some people do besides it doesnt seem to fire the sporatdiacally. We can all agree that TR maxes special it just studid. NC get full protection while that shield is up, we VS must endure fire whilst in the air.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Plus it's very easy to predict where your going to land to put a well placed decimator to finish you off. ;_;