Planetside Idea Lab [Archive] - Page 2

Hayoo

2004-06-30, 10:11 PM

Hi guys, I wanted to run these concepts by you before settling on anything, because they have to do with Urban Outposts and I need this fleshed out before I release UOs on my site. Basically I've looked at Outfit Base Ownership and Outfit Credits, and worked over the trouble areas into something more widely acceptable.

Because continents are taken over too rapidly, the costs of owning a base are too high versus the losses. The solution then is to design something for Oufits that is meant to be temporary and can be transfered when needed.

Introducing Outfit Headquarters (OHQ).

An Oufit Leader (or a ranking member who has permission to do so) can look at the map and use Outfit Credits to remotely select a base, tower, or urban outpost as an Outfit Headquarters. No need to manually be there at the Main Terminal. This prevents TKing.
Bases cost the most, followed by urban outposts and then towers. There is no maintenance fee.
A facility, tower, or urban outpost can host more than one outfit at a time, up to 10 or more, depending.
By setting up an OHQ, Oufits gain access to Outfit Waypoints, the HQ as a Recall point, and as a Respawn point if you are on that continent.
In addition, each Outfit may purchase one upgrade for that HQ. Because most fights on a continent only take place in a few location (due to the lattice), this allows for multiple Outfits to select the same base and defend it better, with each Outfit selecting an upgrade to add to the others. Purchases have a small enable timer.
Outfits must choose wisely which upgrade they wish to use to defend a base or coordinate with other outfits to arrange the best setup.
As an added bonus, these upgrades are Oufit-Linked Upgrades. That is, if you are in an Alliance with another Oufit on the same continent, your upgrades will be added to their OHQ for free, and vice versa.
OHQ's can be removed from a location remotely or manually from the Main Terminal. A timer then begins before another location can be selected for the Outfit Headquarters.
Outfit decals are showed as banners along the location roof or walls. The first Outfit to have setup an OHQ at the location is listed on the map. They can 'promote' another outfit to this privelage by removing their HQ from the location or bumping them up in the same way you'd promote a squad member to squad leader.
There are also Command and Communications bonuses for setting up an OHQ, more on this later.

Facility Upgrades: One per Oufit (list incomplete):
Turret weapon upgrades
Spawn room-to-surface Teleporter
Generator terminal must be hacked to drop a shield before gen can be destroyed.
Longer IFF locks
Barricades and Laserwire on the base's perimeter
Personal Shield-type shielding on bunkers
Equipment Terminals in bunkers
Oufit Garage: ability to store vehicles (and future Empire Tech vehicles) at a Repair Silo and retrieve them from the Vehicle Terminal at any other latticed base or connected Urban Outpost.
Machine Guns at intervals along base walls
Surveillance Cameras in sensitive areas
Intruder proximity alerts for base.
Power Transfer from surrounding territories (if a Gen is blown, power is automatically transfered from adjacent urban outposts).

Urban Outpost Upgrades: One per Oufit (list incomplete):
Longer IFF locks
Barricades and Laserwire on the urban outposts perimeter.
Generator terminal must be hacked to drop a shield before gen can be destroyed.
Personal Shield-type shielding on nearby bunkers
Oufit Garage: ability to store vehicles (and future Empire Tech vehicles) at a Repair Silo and retrieve them from the Vehicle Terminal at any other latticed base or connected Urban Outpost.
Machine Guns at intervals along outpost perimeter
Surveillance Cameras in sensitive areas
Intruder proximity alerts for urban outpost.
Shielding over Supply Depot garage doors.
Power Transfer from surrounding territories (if a Gen is blown, power is automatically transfered from adjacent urban outpost or facility).

Tower Upgrades: One per Oufit (list incomplete):
Turret weapon upgrades
Spawn room-to-surface Teleporter
Longer IFF locks
Barricades and Laserwire on the tower's perimeter
Personal Shield-type shielding on nearby bunkers
Oufit Garage: ability to store vehicles (and future Empire Tech vehicles) at the Repair Silo and retrieve them from the Vehicle Terminal at any other latticed base or connected Urban Outpost.
Machine Guns at intervals along tower walls and perimeter
Intruder proximity alerts for tower.
Power Transfer from surrounding territories (if a Tower NTU silo is drained, power is automatically transfered from adjacent urban outposts. note: Tower's don't go neutral, only lose power).

For the Oufit benefits of Oufit Waypoints, Vehicle Garage, and Recall points to be more permenant, Outfits will need to purchase and maintain an Outfit Barrack in the Sanctuary...which will be covered in Part II later.

EarlyDawn

2004-06-30, 10:15 PM

I like the general idea, but I need to see part two (ETA?) and how Outfit Barracks work before I can really say how I feel.

7ruth

2004-06-30, 11:02 PM

Well I think the whole idea of OBO was to give Outfits something to fight for and deffend what is theirs. Having 10 outfits control 1 base, just takes that away.

I say that outfits can control 1 facility of their choice, but need the required Outfit credits to maintian their domain. The outfit can purchase upgrades at a set price, and each requires weekly maintenence fee.

So the more active and successful the outfit, the more upgrades they can maintain.

On the other end of the spectrum you could have more offense focused Outfit point expenditures, Orbital vehicle drops and such.

My main gripe is the 10 outfits thing each controling one thing for the base...

EarlyDawn

2004-07-01, 12:12 AM

I agree. Multiple outfits per facility wouldn't be necessary if we're opening up outposts, bases AND towers for ownership..

I'm really interested to see how Outfit Barracks are going to work.

Additionally, how about a security center for each base to coordinate defense?

Hayoo

2004-07-01, 03:35 AM

Well I think the whole idea of OBO was to give Outfits something to fight for and deffend what is theirs. Having 10 outfits control 1 base, just takes that away.

It is my deliberate intention to take away the ability of a single outfit owning a continent base. :D In my strong opinion, there is no pride or justification in claiming something like that which you have no way of holding 6 hours later. I also don�t want these continent facilities to become like permanent castles to raise a banner over. Imo, these are supposed to be temporary war camps, veraciously defended when threatened and easily discarded when the battle moves forward. OBO was flawed because the costs outweighed the gains in this war of temporary occupation. The problem is that everyone wants the Devs to make it so they can keep their own base longer, but let them take someone else�s quicker. Do you see what I mean? In order to make OBO actually worth the cost and time involved, a base needs to be defendable enough to completely stop an attack. But if all bases in the game can then do that, yours and theirs... I think the problem is clear.

To put it bluntly, to solve a lot of these controversial issues, I have moved actual "ownership" to sanctuary bases (called Outfit Barracks) where it makes more sense (Fort Bragg, USA anyone?), and replaced the continent version with a mobile option (OHQ) that better matches the fluid nature of Planetside gameplay and fosters a greater cooperative mindset among outfits. No more maintenance fees for something you can't really own. No coveting of another outfit�s base. No backstabbing or betrayals to steal that base. No Tking at the main terminal to grab a base first. No sense of wasting money on upgrades when you can't keep your outfit members online to defend them. No sense of OBO mainly being affordable for larger outfits (that privilege would belong to Outfit Barracks now). No unhealthy competition among outfits for better bases. No constant whining to buff base defense because players feel they deserve to keep a base they paid for, no matter what. Etc. etc.

These are just my opinions, but I believe by splitting ownership out it creates better options and satisfaction for a wider audience. I'm sorry if people had their heart set on utterly owning Zal or Faro, but that's just not realistic with how fast conts are taken these days.

I say that outfits can control 1 facility of their choice, but need the required Outfit credits to maintian their domain. The outfit can purchase upgrades at a set price, and each requires weekly maintenence fee.

This is the exact same system that the Devs proposed and were forced to discard due to all the feedback and questions on lack of longer-term benefits to outfits versus the costs. They complained that you couldn�t keep a base for any appreciable length of time, so why bother? And the Devs were forced to agree and re-plan to split up the OBO benefits into other things.

On the other end of the spectrum you could have more offense focused Outfit point expenditures, Orbital vehicle drops and such.

Vehicle drops are still purchasable with Outfit Credits, along with uniform accessories, barracks, barracks upgrades, outfit-specific vehicles and equipment, and outfit specialization, to name a few.

My main gripe is the 10 outfits thing each controling one thing for the base...

Sharing and cooperation are good things to be encouraged in this game, aren't they? I know people would like to �own� bases like Gunuku, to say �It�s our home� or "we defended our base, Gunuku". But seriously, would that really mean anything in 6 months when you�ve had it and lost it off-and-on every 24 hours to the enemy or even your own Empire? In my system, each outfit can own their own permanent base in the sanctuary 24/7. The risk to it? Less success means less outfit points and possibly losing their safe barracks, their true home, in the sanctuary (which, unlike HQ�s do require maintenance fees). In both cases an outfit has something to fight for and defend. One for pride, the other for victory.

By being allowed to choose only one upgrade (two if I'm feeling generous when I post this on Idealab), anoutfit faces the same choice when choosing implants. Which one is best for this situation? So you choose. Another outfit shows up to help, and they choose an upgrade. Calls for aid produce more outfits, who purchase more affordable upgrades, even to smaller outfits (since they don't have to choose a bunch of upgrades just to defend a base properly).

Consider how many different outfits help defend a single base. With OHQs, in no time you'd have a base defended by not just numbers, but upgrades such as Generator protection, Power transfer, turret upgrades, longer IFF locks, Spawnroom to surface teleporters... In the old system a single outfit would have to pay for all of that and at a base that they think might become the frontline later in the day...hopefully when they're still online to defend it. With my system, that's not even an issue. If an oufit redeploys their HQ, only that outfit's upgrade is removed from the location, and the remaining outfits can shift their upgrades around to compensate.

Multiple outfits per facility wouldn't be necessary if we're opening up outposts, bases AND towers for ownership.

It would be necessary because forces are concentrated in a limited number of places on a continent. Forcing one outfit per base would unnecessarily spread out the areas to defend along the front when the opposing side will just Zerg one or two locations anyway. It would also hamper upgrades, especially if one outfit had to buy all their own. By allowing multiple outfits to set up shop at a single base, and then transfer it as the battle moves forward or back, this allows other outfits to actually help for their own benefit.

I'm really interested to see how Outfit Barracks are going to work.

It�s getting late so I can only provide a summary of part II.

Outfit Barracks can be purchased in Sanctuary in clusters called Camps.
Once bought, you must pay maintenance fees.
Unlike OHQ, which are temporary setups on continents, Barracks are persistent and provide constant access to Outfit Waypoints and a Sanc Recall point, among other outfit-specific benefits.
You can upgrade your Barracks with a Vehicle Garage (which lets you store Empire Tech vehicles and stolen tanks, and lets you retrieve them at any �supplied� friendly vehicle pad in the game), Training Rooms, Driving range, various terminals, war memorials, outfit ads, meeting halls, outfit locker, landing pads, repair silos, etc.

Outfits will assemble and equip at their Barracks, head to a continent, setup HQ at a base that needs defending or other base for whatever reason, choose an upgrade, and relocate the HQ when the battle moves on or turns bad.

Additionally, how about a security center for each base to coordinate defense?

Yes, a new room such as this would be where outfits set up their HQ in bases and urban outposts (towers wouldn't have this room). This is where outfit leaders and unit leaders can gather to share a single battle map and view the SOI radar data in real time.

Well, that's how I see how OHQ and Barracks can successfully take the place of OBO and provide more fun and options for a wider range of players and their outfits, regardless of size or playing hours.

FatalLight

2004-07-01, 09:21 AM

How bout for the bases where you could buy modules? Like 1000 ops for each?

Hayoo

2004-07-01, 10:44 AM

How bout for the bases where you could buy modules? Like 1000 ops for each?

I don't understand, Fatal. Do you mean allow buying of Core Combat modules?

EarlyDawn

2004-07-01, 11:36 AM

I think the original plan was actually to have outfits get uncharged modules ("stasis boxes") from their OBOs, go down, get a module, and come back up.

Just some trivia there.

Hayoo

2004-07-01, 11:51 AM

I think the original plan was actually to have outfits get uncharged modules ("stasis boxes") from their OBOs, go down, get a module, and come back up.

Just some trivia there.

Ah, interesting. :) I can see how that could be fun (almost an 'outfit adventure', except...that it would require buying Core Combat for a base to be competitive with others. Probably another reason players protested OBO.

Gotta hit the road. Hopefully I'll have some graphics tonight/tomorrow to better explain OHQ and Barracks.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-01, 11:59 AM

FatalLight

2004-07-01, 01:56 PM

I don't understand, Fatal. Do you mean allow buying of Core Combat modules?
Yea... unpowered mods would be better tho...

Hayoo

2004-07-01, 11:17 PM

After consideration, I think my only major issue with the OHQ system is that there's not enough conherance between them, command squads, and emplacement firebases. Needs something meaningful to tie them all together.

You mean to tie outfits and command squads together?

Command Squads provide overall direction in a campaign. They point out the next targets and trouble spots, they give notices for ANTs and which bases need Outfit HQ benefits.

Outfit Headquarters provide a rallying point for outfit squads, allows the acquisition of outfit assets in the field (if they don't have a Barracks back home), and also gives some added benefits to base defense. An army squad alone can't do this, but an Outfit would logically have the resources to do so. OHQ's don't provide the actual unit-leading benefits that Command Squads, command vehicles, command posts, or command rooms provide. Outfit leaders can assemble in command rooms to manage parts of base defense or coordinate outfit assests (using Outfit waypoints, Outfit expeditures like vehicle drops, etc), but the actual combat stuff requires the command options previously mentioned. An outfit would still need a command post to communicate effectively in enemy territory. An outfit would still want to join other outfits in a Task Force to better coordinate their forces across the continent and even the entire globe (OHQ's can't do that).

Emplacements, such as the Command or Communications ones, provide unit leaders (whether they're in a task force, outfit, or not) helpful abilities to lead their troops in enemy territory or in compromised frienly territory.

Artillery Firebases are set up by players as usual. Either at the direction of the Command Squad or on the initiative of each unit. The CS might even organize a dedicated artillery squad with a mix of artillery emplacements and towed guns, place them in a central location, and then call out targets.

Basically, OHQ helps an outfit manage itself. Command Squads helps manage the entire war.

That might not have answered your concern, so feel free to elaborate.

Here's some updated maps I cooked up today. It gets kinda crowded at that zoom level, looks much better when seen close up. Still working on OHQ, Barracks, and Command Squad graphics.

Fig 1: Showing several facilities, towers, and urban outposts with OHQ's.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/concepts_map_oshur_h.jpg

Fig 2: Showing all Task Force units.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/concepts_map_oshur_f.jpg

I added in lattice lines, a new territory color scheme and appropriate map labels. It looks crowded now, but will look better if I can get these elements into flash so one can see how they're animated and toggled appropriately. I need to throw in the new grid system too. Too much to do.

[edit: I just noticed I'd accidentally deleted the lattice link between the southern warpgate and the tech plant. Sorry. Pretend there's a link there. LOL.

Hayoo

2004-07-04, 07:50 PM

Here's a rough screen of a visible progress bar for hacking when you see a friendly use an REK. This would certainly prove useful for battlefield awareness.

Once I'm back at my own computer and screenshot files I'll make a better one, as well as the oft-asked-for color coded REK beams for hacking levels.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/hacking1.jpg

EarlyDawn

2004-07-05, 02:29 AM

A nice common sense addition.

Sentrosi

2004-07-05, 07:47 AM

Hayoo

2004-07-05, 05:41 PM

Absolutely love the REK idea. So many times I have people come up to the CC and begin a hack when I'm halfway through it.

Also, perhaps a small little bar should show up on all friendly's HUD stating that the base or tower you're getting to is being hacked by a friendly, show the persons name and a progress bar shown. You don't have to make it large at all, just enough for the person's name and progress.

What I figure I'll do is have a base indicator attached to the mini-map. When you enter the SOI, if it's being hacked by a friendly, it flashes gray and then appears blue/purple/red when finished.

As for a remote progress bar, that would be a little annoying for people just passing through the SOI, so I only have it appearing when you're in the presence of the hacker...or, if you're in the same squad, you will see the hacker symbol and progress in the squad bar (an example of this can be seen on the medic screenshots a few pages before this one).

EarlyDawn

2004-07-05, 06:09 PM

What I figure I'll do is have a base indicator attached to the mini-map. When you enter the SOI, if it's being hacked by a friendly, it flashes gray and then appears blue/purple/red when finished.

As for a remote progress bar, that would be a little annoying for people just passing through the SOI, so I only have it appearing when you're in the presence of the hacker...or, if you're in the same squad, you will see the hacker symbol and progress in the squad bar (an example of this can be seen on the medic screenshots a few pages before this one).

How about this... small display docked / near the mini-map... Hacker type (Basic, Formal, Advanced, displays info on whichever hacker is further along), time till hack completion (can be either a bar or timer) and base status as seen on map (tubes, gens). When the base is hacked (offensively), the hacker status changes to time left on hack.

[Edit: Oh, and while you're at it, you might want to look at hack status indicators on terminals, along with health bars. Kinda in the same vein of improvements.]

NinjaBob

2004-07-05, 06:26 PM

i have a question about the urban areas would the mayor of the city be an actual player or a computer? And if he didn't surrender his town would u have to fight him for it?

Hayoo

2004-07-05, 08:05 PM

i have a question about the urban areas would the mayor of the city be an actual player or a computer? And if he didn't surrender his town would u have to fight him for it?

It will be an Administration Terminal located in one of the buildings.

Back in the day I toyed with having an NPC Mayor behind a desk and a Squad Leader had to run up to him/her and press "G" to negotiate the town's surrender. Since having NPCs was out, I changed it to a SL just running up to an Admin terminal and pressing "G" then waiting for a timer.

The current idea is just letting anyone with an REK hack the Admin Terminal, but if I got enough support I'd really really really like for Admin Terms to be hacked by a SL or his Sergeant (new feature), who would just run up and hit "G", whether they have an REK or not. But I doubt players would like it since they all want to be able to take over something alone. Oh well.

How about this... small display docked / near the mini-map... Hacker type (Basic, Formal, Advanced, displays info on whichever hacker is further along), time till hack completion (can be either a bar or timer) and base status as seen on map (tubes, gens). When the base is hacked (offensively), the hacker status changes to time left on hack.

Hmm. I'd like to keep some mystery/suspense in the hacking process. Remotely knowing the Hacker type and time-till-hack I'd like to reserve for the Squad HUD. Sorry. :(

There was this great concept someone thought up, even did a concept screen for it, but I can't find him! :( Since you mention having this mini-map display show tubes, gen, and hack status, I started thinking maybe it was you. Here's the image. Maybe it will look familiar to you and you can tell me who did it.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/NewMiniMap.jpg

I can go for something like that. But knowing the hacker type from anywhere in an SOI might be a bit much. I'd rather just have people guess their cert by how fast the progress bar is moving.

[Edit: Oh, and while you're at it, you might want to look at hack status indicators on terminals, along with health bars. Kinda in the same vein of improvements.]

Yeah, the terminal health bars have been on my to-do list for ages.

The hack status on terminals is a new one though. Do you mean that when a player runs up to a hacked terminal, he sees the "Press 'G' to access terminal" and also underneath it a little timer counting down for how long he can use it? I like that.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-05, 10:49 PM

Hayoo

2004-07-06, 02:46 AM

Not going to quote because of epicness and I don't wanna snip up sections.

Nah, not my graphic or idea, but that's along the lines of what I was thinking. Cool graphic.

As far as hack timer, what I was meaning was some kind of icon that indicates from a distance that the terminal has been hacked. Many a time I've been pwnt while moving from cover across a room to find it wasn't hacked. However, that works too, defenitely.

Do tell about the sargent feature =D

The search continues then. :)

Oh, a hack icon for the teriminal. I see. That would work, although a timer would give even more info. I'll fiddle around with it.

The sergeant thing is just that thing that everyone has been asking for: the ability for a Squad Leader to designate someone for the #2 spot, a lieutenant, like a successor in case he has to log or goes LD or something. I also figure he'd have the authority to change WP and do invites (but not kicks) in case the SL was busy or something. Maybe he could even get a tiny portion of CEP. Who knows. I haven't devoted enough thought to it yet.

FatalLight

2004-07-06, 08:23 AM

O yea another inviter would be helpful, good idea. :D Most of these ideas i wish wer commin from a dev...

EarlyDawn

2004-07-06, 04:23 PM

Indeed, the ability to have an XO would be cool. Give them a kickback on maybe.. a quarter of the CEPs the SL gets? It's very difficult to build up CEP as a CR 0 character because nobody wants to squad with someone who can't lay waypoints.

This would be a good way to "nurse" a non-commander up to a level where people would follow, as well as teaching new commanders-to-be the ropes in a kind of "intern" circumstance.

To actually make commanders to WANT to take on an XO, don't actually take anything away from the SL's CEPs. To counteract the overall surplus of CEP this would put in the world, they need to implement command decay, so commanders who don't actively command start losing ranks. I believe this is in the works, officially.

Thanks for looking at the distance icon. I defenitely think a hybrid indicator / timer would be the best fusion of the two concepts.

Sentrosi

2004-07-06, 07:24 PM

EarlyDawn

2004-07-06, 08:20 PM

I tend to agree with Sentrosi. Although I can see the "drama factor" involved with no hack timer on that HUD, I would much rather prefer accurate, useful information filtered to my character then drama.

I concur... Replace that hack timer with a small bar that tells you when the base is under hack. Next to it, place a Red N for no hacking, Green H for hacking, and a blue AH or H+ for Advanced Hacker currently hacking the CC.

Hayoo

2004-07-07, 12:36 AM

Wouldn't it be a good idea though to put it in the same area as the TTH countdown timer in your Hybrid HUD though? It could remain inactive until you get into the SOI. It wouldn't really get in anyones way, and then it could switch over to the countdown timer.
If by Hybrid HUD you mean that mini-map image up there, I can't use that until I talk to it's creator, since it's not mine at all. Their mini-map concept would make sense having a hacking progress bar but the concepts I had previously designed did not, and looked annoying. Until I talk to the guy I have to stay with the squad HUD progress bar I already have.

I tend to agree with Sentrosi. Although I can see the "drama factor" involved with no hack timer on that HUD, I would much rather prefer accurate, useful information filtered to my character then drama.

I like drama. :) I don't mind a remote hacking indicator so long as it seamlessly fits in with the HUD (the mini-map would be ideal, but like I said, I can't even touch it until I talk to its creator).

But I don't think I can agree with letting everyone in an SOI instantly know whether the hacker is adv or not, not unless they volunteered that information, perhaps through something like that role-designation thing I have for medics, engineers, etc. At least then you can say the person is broadcasting a transponder or something, but seeing their cert without being next to them, from the other side of the hill...just doesn't seem right.

Oh, I updated the New Interfaces and Chat section (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_interface_chat.shtml) with the visual aids I was talking about before. EarlyDawn, I added in your icon suggestion, hope it looks ok.

- Players will now see a hacking progress bar above the friendly that is hacking an object.
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/hacking2.jpg

- REKs will know display hacker ability by a color-coded beam: Yellow for non-certed players, Orange for Hacking, and Red for Advanced Hacking certed players.
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/hacking3_grunt_thumb.jpg
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/hacking3_hacker_thumb.jpg
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/hacking3_advhacker_thumb.jpg

- Players will now see their empire's logo over "hacked" terminals or objects seen from across the room, and then a timer when they're close enough to access the enemy object. (requested by EarlyDawn)
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/hackterminaldistant.jpg
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/hackterminal.jpg

- Players will now see health bars above friendly terminals when they become damaged.
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/repair01.jpg

EarlyDawn

2004-07-07, 12:40 AM

Awesome work on the terminal stuff. My only suggestion would be to leave red as the uncerted hacking color for REKs, since most of us have that color associated with hacking. The others would be more obvious that they're advanced because to most veterans, they'd be "exotic" beam colors.

I understand the deal with displaying the hacker type. Defenitely make it electable by the hacker. What's role designation? (I know, I know, I just keep dragging the information out of you =( I'm simply hungry for knowledge =P )

[Edit: Additional thought... put in a red break in the terminal health bars to show the threshold of when they stop working? And I also realized the natural ascending theme of the REK beams, so I see it your way.]

Hayoo

2004-07-07, 01:02 AM

I understand the deal with displaying the hacker type. Defenitely make it electable by the hacker. What's role designation? (I know, I know, I just keep dragging the information out of you =( I'm simply hungry for knowledge =P )

I'm still fiddling with the design, but in the Character Info screen, players will be able to select a role or class designation from a general list: Medic, Engineer, Pilot, Armor, Recon, Infantry, etc.

A few of these, like Medic, will be tied to certain certs in order to be selectable (normally they'd be grayed out). For instance, you must have the Medic or Adv Medic (as well as the Medical applicator on your body) in order to choose the role of Medic. This insures people don't "grief" others by classing themselves as one thing but being something else.

In our current scenario, if a player has an REK equipped and has a hacking cert, he or she can choose Hacker as a role. This would then make sense for their ability to be broadcast when hacking a CC, much like an Adv Medic's ability is broadcast as flashing crosses when they have their med-tool out.

[Edit: Additional thought... put in a red break in the terminal health bars to show the threshold of when they stop working?

Not a bad idea, but red in this game denotes enemy, so it would probably have to be yellow, for caution, I think. I dunno. Our vehicle's health remains as a green line even when disabled, some people might be confused. Of course I could simply add this to the improvements page, saying all vehicles when damaged below 50%? change from green to yellow...but then you have the problem of squad colors, which use goldish yellow. AAAAARRRRGGGG!

And I also realized the natural ascending theme of the REK beams, so I see it your way.]

Yeah, I know what you mean by having non-cert as red, but I figured with the new Yellow, Orange, and Red Alerts on bases, that players would quickly adapt.

7ruth

2004-07-07, 12:46 PM

Yea I'm Still following, but have been at a loss for comments until now.

What if the more hackers you have on a terminal the faster it is hacked? I mean it's awesome when everyone in your raider is an engineer, your back in action 10 seconds later!

I can see how just letting any old joe contribute would be to much. So to balance it out lets say at max you can have 3 people hacking, but they only contribute when they have Adv. Hacking. Lets say, two Adv. hackers hack at 125% Adv. Hack speed, and three at 150%.

Another draw back could be that if there are more than three hackers, then efficency degrades(by 10 %). Really though, how many sets of hands can you have on a keyboard and still form coherent sentences...

So Adv. Hackers become more skillful in 'small' groups =)

EarlyDawn

2004-07-09, 11:27 PM

Any updates on the horizion? I can't play so this is about the extent of what entertainment I'm going to be able to get, Planetside-wise.

7ruth

2004-07-09, 11:42 PM

haha =) I'm in the same hole, my brothers playing PS so I can't =/

To be constructive, I was surfing your site and found an error...

On the TR News page, the Prowler specs are wrong =) it says 2 man crew, and since Smoke says the prowler is getting 15 MMs then its even more wrong!
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/TRvehbanner.jpg

Hayoo

2004-07-10, 12:42 AM

Yea I'm Still following, but have been at a loss for comments until now.

I hope the latest ideas haven't been that bad. :p j/k

What if the more hackers you have on a terminal the faster it is hacked?

Makes sense to me, considering that multiple medics and engies increase rates. You might have to restrict hacking help to only those things the players can actually hack, like hacking terminals vs hacking IFF doors and CC. Then you could have a granny hacker suddenly being helped by an Adv Hacker at the CC but the Adv Hacker couldn't get help from the granny when jacking a terminal or vehicle.

Interesting idea too on dynamic help among small groups. Probabaly encourage Hack Teams. :)

Any updates on the horizion? I can't play so this is about the extent of what entertainment I'm going to be able to get, Planetside-wise.

Sorry to hear that, Early. Unfortunately no updates until at least Tues, as I'm out of town this weekend. But at that time I'll be throwing in some concepts for a medic revive bar similar to the visible hacking bar, as well as health bars for damaged generators and spawn tubes.

After that I really really have to get Urban Outposts up on the site. It's been long enough already, I gotta get cracking on it (but it's just so massive a concept, I'm a bit anxious about explaining it all). :)

EarlyDawn

2004-07-10, 01:13 AM

Sorry to hear that, Early. Unfortunately no updates until at least Tues, as I'm out of town this weekend. But at that time I'll be throwing in some concepts for a medic revive bar similar to the visible hacking bar, as well as health bars for damaged generators and spawn tubes.

After that I really really have to get Urban Outposts up on the site. It's been long enough already, I gotta get cracking on it (but it's just so massive a concept, I'm a bit anxious about explaining it all). :)Yeah, it's this damned new patch. Totally kicked my FPS' ass. So now I'll have to wait at least a patch to get within playable levels, it looks like. After I buy my new water cooling rig and everything. :doh:

Have we already heard the gist of Urban outposts in this thread, or is there more to it?

Final suggestion for the "primitive emplacements". The ability to make a lockbox independently of the storage-cover. I came to a conclusion as to how helpful this would be in bases where I'd want to stash ammo in pecular places... like on the wall of a base. Maybe make such a deployable lockable.

Something I'd really like to see down the line: Better lock system. Individually lockable seats, multiple permission filters, and variable trunk access. Think you could squeeze this in way at the end of the list and possibly see it sometime next year? Alternatively, I could do a write up and hold on to it until the idea emporium pops up. :)

7ruth

2004-07-10, 06:53 PM

I can agree with alot of what you say, but urban areas I'd really like to see.
Are they going to be 'true' urban, paved roads and 20 plus buildings?
We've all experienced the half-assed and backwards version of 'urban', fun but not urban. I really expected to see anchient cities there, like was in the concept art =(

Still I'm eager to see your ideas, what ever they maybe =)

EarlyDawn

2004-07-10, 09:17 PM

Core Combat would have been really cool if it were more dense with buildings. Should have felt more like a cavernous underground Ancient Vanu city and less like some reactor complex thirty miles down.

Hayoo

2004-07-11, 12:04 AM

Yeah, it's this damned new patch. Totally kicked my FPS' ass. So now I'll have to wait at least a patch to get within playable levels, it looks like. After I buy my new water cooling rig and everything. :doh:

I got a framerate hit too. But this always happens after every patch and they eventually fix it...for most people.

Have we already heard the gist of Urban outposts in this thread, or is there more to it?

Yeah, most of it is in here...somewhere. :lol:

Final suggestion for the "primitive emplacements". The ability to make a lockbox independently of the storage-cover. I came to a conclusion as to how helpful this would be in bases where I'd want to stash ammo in pecular places... like on the wall of a base. Maybe make such a deployable lockable.

I forget if it was you or someone else, but when they heard about the dufflebag part of my inventory additions, someone mentioned allowing a dropped dufflebag to act as a sort of lockbox/ammo box that you could set permissions on. I always thought that was an interesting idea.

A deployable lockbox would be interesting, but remember, none of my deployables can be built on or within a Base because they'd obstruct things. Maybe there could be a special lockbox built into the walls, where you could store stuff for later use. Not sure if that would be matrix based like the lockers or that-location-only type of thing. Another idea is allowing all those sandbag-type boxes to hold stuff, as sort of an out-door locker. I'd have to think about that one.

Something I'd really like to see down the line: Better lock system. Individually lockable seats, multiple permission filters, and variable trunk access. Think you could squeeze this in way at the end of the list and possibly see it sometime next year? Alternatively, I could do a write up and hold on to it until the idea emporium pops up. :)

Next year? Sure, why not. :) Grayflcn had some lockable seats on his version of the vehicle stats hud. I don't know the thread address off hand. I do like the idea, but it'd have to wait for a while. By all means, write up the concept, I'd love to see it.

I can agree with alot of what you say, but urban areas I'd really like to see.
Are they going to be 'true' urban, paved roads and 20 plus buildings?
We've all experienced the half-assed and backwards version of 'urban', fun but not urban. I really expected to see anchient cities there, like was in the concept art =(

Yeah it's meant to be a true urban feel; outdoors, hard-surface roads, short alleyways, 5-10 buildings (20 is just a bit much for the limited space we have for multiple urban areas), elevated walkways, blasted out walls and ruins, etc. A few urban outposts will only sport the Supply Center building. While 'villages' would be cool to have, because the game fiction we know that civilians do not and have never lived on the planet. So there wouldn't be homes, churches, shops, etc. Therefore all buildings must evoke a military/research function much like the bases but minus the high walls, turrets, bunkers, etc. Think of them as camps erected near tappable resources, not meant for defense like the facilities, but for planet exploitation.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-11, 01:37 AM

Rayder

2004-07-11, 09:36 AM

I'm sure there are a lot of great and wonderful ideas in here, as well as a lot of retarded only-a-complete-moronic-idiot-could-think-up-this-stupid-idea kind of ideas here too. I just want to know what the current ideas are, seems to me that they're about hacking, urban areas, and external "lockers."

DeepStrikeck

2004-07-11, 12:32 PM

EarlyDawn

2004-07-11, 02:24 PM

I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but I would like to see a feature on the lockers where you can type in a character name and grant them access to your locker for a period of lets say, ten minutes. So then when they go up to a locker anywhere in the world, they have an option when they press g to either open their locker, or your locker, which you just granted them access to. This would make it much easier for weapons trade or giving everyone in your squad a MCG while they run around a base during an invasion where the spawn room is overrun. (they access and grab the MCG from the room below/next to the spawn room)

oh, and btw, the ideas are great (I read page 19 & 20) and they sound really cool. That hack indicator looks sweet.That'd be really cool. Like giving someone the code for your locker (Since it constructs everything moments before you open it, I'm assuming you enter in an ID code and PIN or something). Even cooler would be to have a certain area you could flag as "public" that someone could access with the proper code you give them.

"Hey Jim, if we don't get those turrets back up, we're screwed. I've gotta stay here and keep building emplacements for the infantry. Go to my locker and get two glueguns. Passcode is 45100"

The locker access could simply be based on your character name, then you have a PIN you could give to people, and change.

I'm sure there are a lot of great and wonderful ideas in here, as well as a lot of retarded only-a-complete-moronic-idiot-could-think-up-this-stupid-idea kind of ideas here too. I just want to know what the current ideas are, seems to me that they're about hacking, urban areas, and external "lockers."I personally have yet to see an idea come out of Hayoo that wouldn't improve the game in some way, even if it didn't help me because of my playstyle.

The current topics are the Urban Areas, Empire Tech Levels, Outfit Headquarters (Continentally Based), Outfit Barracks (Sanctuary-based customizable rally points that outfits can upgrade with the facilities that would help their outfit, like training facilities, vehicle storage, ect), and inventory changes (Personal container types, each with their own unique properties, plus locker upgrades.)

I'm just curious as to what Hayoo has in mind to let us buy for the Outfit Barracks.

7ruth

2004-07-11, 08:18 PM

Yeah it's meant to be a true urban feel; outdoors, hard-surface roads, short alleyways, 5-10 buildings (20 is just a bit much for the limited space we have for multiple urban areas), elevated walkways, blasted out walls and ruins, etc. A few urban outposts will only sport the Supply Center building. While 'villages' would be cool to have, because the game fiction we know that civilians do not and have never lived on the planet. So there wouldn't be homes, churches, shops, etc. Therefore all buildings must evoke a military/research function much like the bases but minus the high walls, turrets, bunkers, etc. Think of them as camps erected near tappable resources, not meant for defense like the facilities, but for planet exploitation.

Thats cool, I'd be fine with a coastal city or a city built around a starport. Well concerning the 'no colonists', I believe one of the empire websites (Terranrepublic/V-S-/N-C-.com) says that 'colonization continued in earnest for the next 20 years'. I believe that was contradicted, or changed, in a news letter where they said to the effect of 'on the first voyage through, the wormhole destablized and collapsed, heavily damaging or disabling many of the MEF ships'. When I heard that, it just pissed me off... I want my urban combat.

Just remember TR are probably capitalists =) new world + undeveloped = money!

-=Edit=-
Heres some cool concept art, wouldn't mind a good sized city to fight over =P
http://planetunreal.com/saturnfive/2d/abondoned_city_shore_final_LR.jpg

Hayoo

2004-07-12, 01:04 PM

Yeah, the locked dufflebag idea was mine from when I specialized your inventory additions. As far as the deployable lockbox goes, I was thinking that as long as you didn't place it in doors, you could place it inside. Or prehaps against a wall?

Guess you'll have to design a new permission screen to encompass emplacements, vehicles, and any dropped dufflebags. :lol:

*panics* AAAAAAAA! :lol:

Well, there were scientists and technicians, non-military personel. So there were civilians, just not colonists, per se. Plus, I would assume there was a reasonable amount of travel time / expense with traveling through the wormhole again, so I seriously doubt that military personel would be shipped back to earth space for their time off. It is logical to assume there would be minor civic areas for the entertainment of civilians and off-duty military.

Yeah, that's what I mean. We wouldn't have villages, parks, housing developments and other things that would be assumed as civilian areas, but more like base barracks, px stores, rec halls, etc.

I'm sure there are a lot of great and wonderful ideas in here, as well as a lot of retarded only-a-complete-moronic-idiot-could-think-up-this-stupid-idea kind of ideas here too. I just want to know what the current ideas are, seems to me that they're about hacking, urban areas, and external "lockers."

You'll probably just want to go to my site: http://www.planetside-idealab.com. If you just want to browse pictures, you can go here: http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psemerald&message.id=50139

I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but I would like to see a feature on the lockers where you can type in a character name and grant them access to your locker for a period of lets say, ten minutes. So then when they go up to a locker anywhere in the world, they have an option when they press g to either open their locker, or your locker, which you just granted them access to. This would make it much easier for weapons trade or giving everyone in your squad a MCG while they run around a base during an invasion where the spawn room is overrun. (they access and grab the MCG from the room below/next to the spawn room)

Interesting idea. How long do you think the permission should last? I like the PIN idea, EarlyDawn mentioned. Some might also want that locker menu as a toggle, otherwise they'd have to do an extra mouse click just to open their own locker.

I'm just curious as to what Hayoo has in mind to let us buy for the Outfit Barracks.

I'll be getting to those details soon. In relation to that I need to illustrate where the Barracks are located and grouped, how it relates to the Sanctuary Capital, and how some of the upgrades tie it in with Empire Tech Levels. I also need to mention that the Sanctuary continents themselves will be enlarged to make room for these Barracks camps, as well as the Sanc maglev system linking the Villas with the empire-specific Sanctuary Capital. There will be the usual teleporters but the maglev is for quick cross-sanc transporting of your customized or enhanced vehicles that you can only get from your Barracks.

It's safe to assume that Outfits will be able to customize their Barracks as their 'home and headquarters' with different types terminals, room items, storage options, training options, outdoor items, vehicle facilities, etc. These customizations can only be used by Outfit members, and Alliance members if they've set that permission. (Yes, this is assuming Alliances will make it into the game).

Thats cool, I'd be fine with a coastal city or a city built around a starport.

There will be some coastal urban outposts, as well as four seaports for each continent, where players can acquire naval units. In my concepts, aside from any future mega-urban setting the devs see fit to put on a Battle Island, cities will only be located in the Sanctuaries. That is, they have Sanctuary Capitals which will visibly rise or shrink in its urban development depending on the empire's Tech Level.

I believe that was contradicted, or changed, in a news letter where they said to the effect of 'on the first voyage through, the wormhole destablized and collapsed, heavily damaging or disabling many of the MEF ships'. When I heard that, it just pissed me off... I want my urban combat.

Ditto. It is because of the newsletter that I had to change the "abandoned" civilian/worker villages to military/resource outposts. If in the 30 years of 'colonization' (I think it's 30), the empires had any families, we can assume they'd all be in the Orbital Platforms. That's why I'm bringing in the Sanctuary Capitals. I want to move those dependants/non-combatants back to the surface in a visible way (not as NPCs but represented by more non-combatant structures like high-rises and things).

That's another thing that confuses me. Empires. Just how big was this expeditionary force that it was large enough for them to declare Imperial status only a short time later? If the wormhole was open for 30 years, we could assume an immigration of a population. But with the wormhole closing immediately...just how many kids can you have in 30 years?

I checked out that concept art site and it's very impressive work.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-12, 01:08 PM

Bear in mind that it dosen't seem like anyone was left out of being matrixed to Auraxis. People may not even die of old age anymore.

Hayoo

2004-07-12, 01:31 PM

Bear in mind that it dosen't seem like anyone was left out of being matrixed to Auraxis. People may not even die of old age anymore.

I'm talking about population growth from the original expedition, I don't even consider death-rates for the reasons you mentioned.

My question is how many were in the original Expeditionary Force? 5,000? 10,000? 1 Million?? Did they bring children? Did they have children after becoming stranded? Did they use accelerated growth? Did they induce creation of twins, triplets even? Did they use cloning? What methods did they use to increase the population base necessary for each side to be called an "empire" rather than "nation" or "faction?" Or did the old Terran Republic originally send enough personnel to split between 3 empires? Or...and this would be extremely frustrating...did the Devs just pick "Empire" as a name for each faction because it sounded cooler?

I'd love to get my hands on Smoke's Fiction note for the game to answer all these questions.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-12, 01:48 PM

Well, I'd imagine that reproduction is impossible since you're essentially reborn out of nanites the first time you use a warpgate. However, prehaps that's what the biolab tubes are all about, cloning.

I'd say somewhere in the range of 40,000 people went through.

Hayoo

2004-07-12, 03:11 PM

Well, I'd imagine that reproduction is impossible

:eek: That's one hell of a contraceptive. So Auraxis is truly a world without the risk of death or accidental pregnancy..........sign me up for that planet please. :lol:

However, prehaps that's what the biolab tubes are all about, cloning.

I wonder if there were any pre-warpgate children. Do humans even age or mature after they've been rebirthed? If not, then those pre-gate kiddies are still babies. :)

I'd say somewhere in the range of 40,000 people went through.

Logically that would be enough to split between 3 groups to declare themselves an Empire, but I'd like to hear the real number one day. I need to put that on the request tracker.

TheN00b

2004-07-12, 03:26 PM

:eek: That's one hell of a contraceptive. So Auraxis is truly a world without the risk of death or accidental pregnancy..........sign me up for that planet please. :lol:

Indeed, lol.

I wonder if there were any pre-warpgate children. Do humans even age or mature after they've been rebirthed? If not, then those pre-gate kiddies are still babies. :)

Nope. The smart thing to do would be to let them age, like cheese, to about 20, and then send them off to war, where they'd respawn and thus never age.

Logically that would be enough to split between 3 groups to declare themselves an Empire, but I'd like to hear the real number one day. I need to put that on the request tracker.

Hell, 40,000 would be tiny. It takes an insane amount of people to maintain a tehnological infrastructure, fuel a massive war effort, and have a beaurocracy.

Hayoo

2004-07-12, 06:29 PM

I've gone through the emplacements and towables list and streamlined it a bit so that I'm not so overwhelmed with work.

Cover that any grunt can create using the entrenching tool:

Steel boxes cover (but with sloping dirt front)

Suspended until further notice: Barricade wall.

(Grunts can no longer create cover with an ammo box. Reserved for engineers.)

Cover that an Engineer can create using the entrenching tool:

180 cover
machine-gun variant

Emplacements that Combat Engineers can create using the CE Vehicle:

12mm MG nest
Radar post
Command Post (combined with communications post)
Medical post
NTU vehicle recharger
Supply post
Landing Tarmac
Lookout post
Ground monitoring post

Emplacements (in addition to the CE ones) that Field Engeers can create using the CE Vehicle:

20mm x2 AA nest
80mm indirect fire mortar
100mm indirect fire artillery
SAM site

Suspended until further notice: 50mm, 75mm, AV missile

Towed equipment for Field Assault cert:

Storage
Radar
Communications
AA direct fire Flak cannons
90mm AV and aritllery cannon (direct and indirect fire modes - mimics versitility of 88's)
Indirect fire artillery rockets
155mm indirect fire artillery

Suspended until further notice: 35mm, 120mm mortar, SAM

EarlyDawn

2004-07-12, 09:07 PM

What's a ground monitoring post? :confused:

And why the decision to streamline the command and comm posts (:thumbsup:) and take the ammo-box cover away from regular grunts?

Will you be illustrating all of these?

7ruth

2004-07-12, 10:11 PM

Well I dont wan't to bring number of people in as a factor, i just want to fight in a city =D. I would consider the WG technology so advanced, assuming string theory is true, that is actualy uses the energy of the nantites to reconstruct the matter of the object. That would include DNA, RNA, protiens, brain waves, ect...

Emplacements are my favorite idea man, I really like what you have put together. To prevent extraneous emplacements, I think you should make the CE cost outfit points. If i could play a game where I got experience from successfully pushing an enemy force away from their emplacements and into their city, then i'd be a happy man =D.

I like that website a lot, I'd like to see more concepts like the one I posted here. I'm thinking of laying out a city on one of the continents, it would sure help to know which continents will become "home Continents" again. I'm going to go work on that after this post =)

By the way, 'Urban Outposts' sound more like barracks to me. So there could be a "north Dahaka barracks". I'm still a "all the way or not at all" person.

DeepStrikeck

2004-07-12, 10:12 PM

7ruth

2004-07-12, 10:21 PM

heh, I guess you have a tougher critic than me =)

Hayoo

2004-07-12, 10:45 PM

What's a ground monitoring post? :confused:

It's kind of a wide-range motion sensor but it detect only ground vehicles larger than a Lightning. It's intended use is to monitor the borders of friendly territory, since manpower is at such a premium. It functions like a base-density warning. When a vehicle approaches the location of a monitoring post, a little warning icon shows up in his screen. At that point, his signal is weak, but when he reaches the detection range, it flashes "Enemy vehicle approaching" on the Cont map.

Monitoring posts have a very wide placement range (and I think they can only be placed in friendly territory), so if Spec Ops troops or Infiltrators can destroy one, it creates a gap for forces to slip through.

If a forces wishes to drive deep into enemy territory with maximum secrecy, the best choice is to drop spec ops forces into the territory's generator, hack it offline to disable the radar and map warnings, then libs or aicraft destroy the monitoring posts (since they can't detect air vehicles). Then the ground forces can invade in total secrecy.

Another way is for a Galaxy or Phantasm to fly in under the radar and hot drop troops into the urban outpost or base. But this is very dangerous if any AA are about.

And why the decision to streamline the command and comm posts (:thumbsup:)

It had to do with my original design for command and communications. It's kind of an involved story, and I like telling stories, so you can skip to the "Short Version" near the bottom if you like:

The buiding blocks: Enemy territory creates a blackout on all friendly communications and facility warnings for friendly troops and commanders. Broadcast abilities in any territory was also affected by your command rank, the higher you were, the further people could hear you (within your Task Force of course)

In my original idea, everything was Radius-based. That is, a CR1's radius was 200m, the CR2's 500, CR3's 1000, CR4's the whole continent (all friendly territory on the cont) and a large radius around himself if he was in enemy territory.

I tied that in with a communications system, which was also radius-based. Without comm coverage, you couldn't broadcast. So if you set up comm posts and towers in enemy territory, you could extend your communications range there, but only so far as the comm radius. Players were supposed to overlap as many towers as they could to create a blanket of communications coverage. (The idea started to feel cumbersome at this point and the fun factor weakened.)

Now I added in the Command Centers, Command Vehicles, and Command Posts. These had the purpose of boosting a unit-leaders abilities. Basically any HQ area extended your comm range no matter your command rank. They also imparted better scanning abilities and such. I debated for days whether CPs/HQs gave CR4-ranged broadcast to CR1s or just a larger radius. This was afterall, broadcasts within a TaskForce and only unit leaders could hear it anyway.

It was all to be this symbosis between Command elements and Communications elements. Comm posts would extend the empire's broadcast and map warnings range, and command locations would extend leader's abilities within them. Eventually, as happens, I discovered that all this was insanely complicated and stupid!

The Concept Today: So I gutted the whole thing and rebuilt it as a zone-based concept.

A CR1 can broadcast over /taskforce within 1 zone, no matter where in that zone he is (just like an SOI).
A CR2 can broadcast in their zone and the adjacent zones (2 layers).
A CR3 can broadcast in their zone, adjacent zones, and the zones beyond those (3 layers).
This gives something for players to strive for. The higher their CR, the better they can coordinate with their fellow squad leaders.

For communications coverage in enemy territory, all an empire has to do is place a single comm tower, command post, or command vehicle in the zone, and then communications are availabe for the entire zone. Place it right across the border if you like, it'll still reach the whole enemy zone. Although, along the border is the first place reaver pilots will look. :)

Commanders leading from any command center (except for the Command Vehicle) boosts that CR's range by an extra layer, that is a CR1 can now broadcast to other taskforce units in his zone and to the adjacent zones, a substantially larger area. Comtechs will also be able to enter those same Command Posts or Command Vehicles to enhance their jamming/eavesdropping abilities. It also keeps the comtechs close to the commanders that they are protecting from enemy eavesdroppers.

This makes things much more simple and direct. It also creates a better game of cat and mouse. Pilots will have fun patrolling enemy territory for enemy command posts, comm towers, supply posts, monitoring stations, NTU recharging stations, etc. Destruction is the best tangible part of the game that keeps you coming back for more day after day. The teamwork and strategy requirements provide that intangle element of satisfaction and pride that keep you coming back subscription after subscription.

End of long story. :)

Short Version:

The original idea sucked.
Command and Communications naturally go together
I switched the concept from a radius-based system to a zone-based system.

take the ammo-box cover away from regular grunts?

Since the ammo-boxes are created empty, a grunt would have to make several trips to fill it. In that time, surely an engineer is about who can create a bigger emplacement and with a 12mm machinge gun no less, complete with some ammo.

I decided the smaller basic cover was useful mainly as a hasty prepared position i the absence of engineers and heavy equipment. At least until further notice. :) If the idea catches on, I can bring it back as a variant of the basic cover for someone willing to invest the extra preperation to deploy one.

Will you be illustrating all of these?

Yup. It's a daunting task, which is another reason why I toned down the concept temporarily.

Hayoo

2004-07-12, 10:48 PM

pics:

LOL. :lol: Good God, Man! Just explore the thread a little or visit my site.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com.

If you just want to browse pictures, you can go here: http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psemerald&message.id=50139

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/emplacement_types.gif

Hayoo

2004-07-12, 11:07 PM

Well I dont wan't to bring number of people in as a factor, i just want to fight in a city =D.

I hear ya, but I have to have some kind of story fiction to base these ideas on. :) A large city without a population to use it would seem strange in this game. Fun, but strange.

I think you should make the CE cost outfit points. If i could play a game where I got experience from successfully pushing an enemy force away from their emplacements and into their city, then i'd be a happy man =D.

:) The only problem with it costing outfit points is that solo players wouldn't be able to make the emplacements. I have known solo players who simply went around filling bases with an ANT because no one else was doing it. I'd hate to alienate such a potential resource as solo players creating necessary emplacements for outfits, especially if those outfits had to use up their quotas on weapons emplacements.

I'm thinking of laying out a city on one of the continents, it would sure help to know which continents will become "home Continents" again. I'm going to go work on that after this post =)

Sounds good to me :)

By the way, 'Urban Outposts' sound more like barracks to me. So there could be a "north Dahaka barracks". I'm still a "all the way or not at all" person.

Do you mean the name or the concept sounds more like barracks? The name was originally Urban Areas, but that sounded a little weak. So I looked at the collection of buildings and deduced they were outposts, weaker versions of their walled brothers, created to protect that zone's resources for the Empire Tech Levels.

The concept of Outposts is for that urban combat feel and also provide a conduit for more field battles. It will feel like a town, that's for sure, with all the different structures like the maglev station, powerplant, supply depot, landing field, etc.

As for names, I'd have it so that names for the outposts would be their own (based on the mythology theme of the cont) so that each 'town' had its own identity. That way, any large battles in the area could adopt the name of the outpost. The Battle for Gunuku is getting old, but with more place-names, it'll be easier to get a sense of a war with lots of unique battle locations.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-12, 11:33 PM

That all sounds good Hayoo. The "Layer" system is logical. I was also thinking that prehaps you should be able to wirelessly connect the NTU refueling stations to AMSes and any other emplacement that needs to be in supply to work, if the owner allowed you. Kinda like setting up a forward base, as long as you keep it in supply.

Any ETA (Even a rough estimate) on those illustrations?

7ruth

2004-07-13, 01:26 AM

http://www.applepics.com/2/userfiles/40f36bf5222fa.jpg
Well its what i came up with after an hour and a half, or so, but you get the idea. Its not realy finished, but oh well I couldn't make it much better...
Basicly 1 by 2 kilometer colony, and obviously abandoned.

What I meant to say earlier was 'CE vehicle' not CE =/ but i do see your point.

The Barracks thing is because it sounds like that sort of thing to me...

Travel through the Wormhole took place over a 20 year period, and when it closed the TR deperately tried to find a way to reopen it. They keep it under wraps too, and people were executed(for good probably). It eventually got out and people saw a chance to break away from the TR.

Hayoo

2004-07-13, 04:18 AM

I'll reply when I get up this morning (it's already 4am here :scared: ) but I just wanted to mention that I finished setting up Idealab's forums (finally).

There's not much in there yet, of course, just a greeting but I'll start filling it up eventually. The forums can currently be reached through the Site Forums link in the main menu bar or just use this link: http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?

I'll start putting up new threads and squaring all the links away, but right now I'm beat.

I will also continue to post here on PSU and post news if I make a really big release on the site or WIP section.

K, I'm going to bed.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-13, 01:54 PM

Yay, all registered for the forums. Looking for a moderator? I whore the forums a lot and you know how much interest I have in the Idealab. :)

tjmonk15

2004-07-13, 02:53 PM

ill join earlydawn at moderator if ya need me. ill be postin at the idealab pretty constantly

7ruth

2004-07-13, 07:31 PM

oh oh! i wana be a moderator! I already moderate my outfit forums and made our website =D

Hayoo

2004-07-13, 09:38 PM

I was also thinking that prehaps you should be able to wirelessly connect the NTU refueling stations to AMSes and any other emplacement that needs to be in supply to work, if the owner allowed you. Kinda like setting up a forward base, as long as you keep it in supply.

At first I had the AMSes only initiate the NTU drain if they were in enemy territory. Then I was reading this topic by nexus8 on NTU Fuel (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdevdiscussion&message.id=29248), specifically the posts by soydios, DeronokGeris, and Tieom. I started thinking how cool it would be to marry my ideas with theirs and I came up with an interesting hybrid that had potential for some fun while encouraging drivers (especially skeeter pilots) to be more careful but not make it too hard on them.

ANTs become even more important since that they can quickly fill any NTU silo, or recharge the capacitors of AMS, vehicles, or landed aircraft.
Recharging a capacitor would only take a few seconds, much less time than it takes to recharge a shield.
To extend the operating time of your vehicle, you can replace ammo with NTU powercells, which can only be gotten from an ANT's trunk.
Engineers can also manually recharge vehicles and silos if they have the tool and a powercell in their inventory.
Powercells can also be purchased with your rank-salary from the goods terminals in Urban Outposts. Outpost in enemy hands? No problem, just hack the terminal and pay for it.
If a recharge point (base, tower, outpost) is surrounded, no recharging takes place, regardless of intact lattice links. This promotes encircling attacks to limit enemy vehicle movement because vehicles don't hop off the pad with a full capacitor.
Lodestars would have the ability to recharge aircraft while in flight, and vehicles while on the ground.
All vehicles can recharge directly from a warpgate, repair-rearm silo, ANT, Lodestar, or deployable emplacements like the landing tarmac and NTU storage. With so many options, a recharge is only a few seconds away.
Galaxies will be able to drop supplies from their cargo hold as well. These supplies can include ammo or powercells to recharge a base or its vehicles.

I need to run these by those guys first though before I can continue developing the concept or start making graphics.

Any ETA (Even a rough estimate) on those illustrations?

Can't really say yet. I've been busy setting up the new forums and building my outfit's website. On top of that I'm still job hunting, although I do have a short-term job prospect with Disney Imagineering :eek: , no lie! With my luck it's probably just "data-entry."

Well its what i came up with after an hour and a half, or so, but you get the idea. Its not realy finished, but oh well I couldn't make it much better...
Basicly 1 by 2 kilometer colony, and obviously abandoned.

Nice graphic, 7ruth. :) I can so imagine that in my head. Such a thing could reasonably be on each of the home continents. Perhaps the empires tried to push their civilizations out from their sanctuaries (where they'd have their Sanctuary Capitals) and tried to build a defendable metropolis, only for them to be attacked and abandoned.

On being Moderators for Idealab forums

I think the site needs to grow some more before it requires moderators, but sure, when the time comes I can give you guys a ring. :)

7ruth

2004-07-13, 10:16 PM

yea I've never tried an over view image before, but its really the quickest way to get the idea across. I'll try to whip something up, a picture looking in from the water.

I remember you saying something about being jobless a few weeks ago, glad you finaly found something =)... "I don't see you having a degree in fungineering" lol

As for being a moderator, I'll always be happy to help =D

EarlyDawn

2004-07-13, 10:44 PM

Fuel sounds good. The ability for the gal to drop supplies also sounds pretty cool.

Lartnev

2004-07-14, 08:26 AM

Hayoo

2004-07-14, 10:15 AM

I'm not sure if fuel would be a logistics nightmare or not. You have to be careful not to make it too hard for the average player let alone a complete newbie.

For a start it's pretty much going to spell the end for AMSs mainly because however you chose to get fuel to it, it's going to be a pretty clear sign to the enemy where it is (at least using something like a gal drop or ANT). I think in the end people won't bother and it'll just stop.... hmm when it runs out of fuel would the cloaking field fail?

I understand your worries and made every effort to make NTUs have multiple and convenient options to acquire and use. All newbies would need to know are the locations they can go to for recharging and they'll be fine. The more advanced players will know how to bring the NTU's to them.

Fuel, or capacitor in this case, would act like the shield, automatically recharging when in an SOI or in proximiity to an outpost repair silo, tower repair silo, NTU emplacement, or Lodestar.

The AMS is unique in that it can still function and drive without fuel. This was done because it doesn't have a trunk for extra powercells. An AMS's capacitor is only drained when players spawn from it while it's deployed in enemy territory (like at the backdoor). Zergs will logically drain an AMS after 10-15min of constant respawning, but Spec Ops teams needn't worry about that. An AMS deployed in friendly territory can spawn the entire Auraxin population and not drain because it's assumed 'connected' to the supply line back to a Capitol or warpgate.

Once drained, the AMS only ceases to provide heavy equipment like Rexo, HA, SA, AV, Vehicle ammo, etc. Nothing else changes. Players can still spawn and acquire Agile, Suppressors, and support equipment. Drivers can choose to deploy the AMS outside the SOI (which happens often anyway) in friendly territory to prevent the capacitor from draining. Outposts are a convenient source of recharging whether belonging to friendly or enemy forces. If friendly, simply drive up to a functioning repair-rearm silo, if enemy just sneak in and hack a goods terminal to purchase powercells.

The cloak shield continues to function as normal even if the capacitor hits zero.

Yes, using the ANT to refuel an AMS is risky but the danger adds tension and fun. It would become standard op to bring several loaded ANTS to a fight, some even teaming up with AMS drivers so they can hide in the cloak bubble. What I also see is an ANT being used to simply transport powercells close to the fighting, engineers grabbing the cells from the trunk, and then running to the AMS to refill it by hand like you'd repair it with a nano gun.

With the presence of an ANT, the enemy won't necessarily be able to guess that an AMS is nearby because ANTs can also be used to recharge vehicles and tower silos extremely quickly (the driver hops out, deploys, waits 3-4 seconds, and presto that tank's capacitor is revilled, along with any other vehicles in a nearby radius. A tower would take a few moments more).

Same thing with linking Gal drops to AMS, the enemy won't know what is being dropped since it could be requested ammo, vehicle ammo, or other support equipment. Gal drops will most likely happen for a besieged base or outpost though.

Bringing ANTs to the battle should become a common practice. Recharging should become as second nature as repairing or charging a shield. It's not completely necessary for everyone to use but it keeps you in the field longer. Plus it allows for closer ANTs needed to recharge a base. ANTs will also be certable as a 1 point cert for those who don't have vehicles.

On a side note, when the devs said they'd have to modify the ANT if they include tower silos, I envisioned a two-seater ANT, perhaps with a 9mm suppressor-type weapon. This would make the ANT the game's cargo truck of sorts.

UPDATE: I think I'm going to keep the Nano-dispenser as the primary tool for manually recharging NTUs. The tool will have a secondary fire mode that, when select, will begin to draw from the powercells rather than nano-juice. That seems the most convenient option anyay. The repair animation can show up differently like sparks or lightning-like effect. Remember though that manually recharging something takes longer than using an ANT. This prevents the ANT from becoming extinct.

UPDATE 2: I should point out that like soydios's post (in the previously mentioned thread by nexus8), the capacitor will always drain NTU powercells in the trunk first. So while a heavily armored tank could conceivably be used to transport NTUs from an ANT at a warpgate to a base, it will have less NTUs than when it started out with. This helps prevents trying to hold powercells in trunks for safe keeping and invulnerable transportation.

UPDATE 3: I should point out that there's another reason for wanting a type of vehicle capacitor or power requirement in the game: See cert description for the Advanced Tech (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_newcertifications.shtml#advtech)

These temporary system upgrades act like the Core Combat modules and are placed (read: installed) in the trunk of the vehicle. When retrieved from an equipment terminal they are only allowed in the game world for a set time. In addition to the time limit is the ammount of space these take up (either 4x3 or 4x4) so like your inventory loadout you must juggle how much of what item is more important to you; ammo, powercells, or system upgrades.

The system upgrades come in four types: Passive (always on, no capacitor drain), Passive One Time Use (auto-activates in situations), Activated (drains capacitor), Activated One Time Use (drains capacitor).

Passive upgrades include, but are not limited to:

Detect Radar/Sensor location - when the radar icon lights up, a location marker pinpoints on the map where it's coming from.
Laze option for stationary vehicles - adds an additional firemode of a laze pointer.
Capacitor regulator (more efficiently preserves NTU powercell consumption, this doesn't effect the actual regulator, only the additional powercells you place in the trunk)
Reload speed - beefs up the reload time for weaponry, but has a side effect of less damage per shot.

Passive One Time Use upgrades include, but are not limited to:

Emergency Power - when fully drained, capacitor gives second wind reserve to vehicle

Activated (toggled, drains capacitor) upgrades include, but are not limited to:

Vehicle jumpstart - lurches vehicle from standstill to high gear
Stealhy radius - disrupts enhanced targeting of enemy outside a certain radius
Quieter motor - sound of motor deminished for easier stealth
Recharge Afterburner - recharges afterburner quicker
Darklight upgrade - this would go along with the free darklight use from vehicles being removed.

Activated One Time Use (drains capacitor) upgrades incude, but are not limited to:

Damage-control system - regenerates armor over time)
Overdrive speed increase - warm-up required after activation, disappates after short period

UPDATE 4: Oh yeah, as mentioned on the forums, Ancient Tech vehicles wouldn't require a capacitor.

Note: my main concern with introducing these 'system upgrades' is that these abilities are the kind of thing that the Developers would probably want to use for their Elite Abilities. :( So I'm trying to come up with things that might not be used for that. It's very frustrating not knowing what kind of vehicle Abilities they want to add.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-14, 01:50 PM

I'd suggest some way to tie fuel support into Task Forces so a member unit in a task force (Platoon, Squad, Division) could request fuel if they needed it.

Hayoo

2004-07-14, 02:24 PM

I'd suggest some way to tie fuel support into Task Forces so a member unit in a task force (Platoon, Squad, Division) could request fuel if they needed it.

Good idea.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-14, 03:23 PM

So how do Gal supply drops work? This idea intrigues me.

Hayoo

2004-07-14, 11:00 PM

So how do Gal supply drops work?

Beats me.

LOL. :lol: Just kidding. There have been several suggestions over the forums, the most popular is letting a Gal drop an limited-time equipment terminal. Well that's just too easy in my view, plus it wouldn't work with my powercell stuff.

So I thought of this straight-forward thing that is related to my inventory items:

Player goes to an equipment terminal and gets a Supply Crate . These are kinda big, probably a 6x6 box or larger.
Player drops crate on the floor and opens it with the G key like he would a trunk.
Player starts filling the crate with powercells, ammo, medkits, nano juice, ACEs, guns, etc. from his inventory.
The supply crate can hold as much as a Deliverer. Supply Crates cannot be placed inside other supply crates.
Player places crate back in his inventory and runs outside.
Player drops box on the ground and selects permissions to "Empire" so that other can access the contents and pick it up in a gal.
Galaxy drops in and hovers near. A message appears to click "G" to pick up Supply Crate.
Galaxy pilot accepts, loading the box into the Vehicle Bay, and flies off to destination.
Once over the target, the Gal pilot accesses his Vehicle window, selects the Vehicle Bay slot, and ejects the box from the aircraft. OR he can simply click the 'eject Vehicle Bay' icon that appeared in his hotbar when he picked up the box.
Supply Crate falls with inertial dampners and lands.
Besieged players rush to the box and can grab it's contents since it's permissions were still set to "Empire".
Should the owner of the box (only one crate allowed per player) decide he doesn't want that pilot carrying his stuff, he can switch the permissions to Group or None and the crate will immediately eject from it's Vehicle Bay to the ground.

How's that? Too much? People would prefer the equipment terminal wouldn't they. :( *sigh* :rolleyes:

edit: switch Cargo Bay to Vehicle Bay

EarlyDawn

2004-07-14, 11:55 PM

I really like that! Gives the gal an interesting purpose. Does this go in the vehicle bay or some obscure slot on the gal. Can the gal carry more then one?

Hayoo

2004-07-15, 01:18 AM

I really like that! Gives the gal an interesting purpose. Does this go in the vehicle bay or some obscure slot on the gal. Can the gal carry more then one?

Whoops, switch Cargo Bay to Vehicle Bay. :) I figure it should only carry one, since a Del sized trunk is pretty huge. I could even make the crate bigger to like 8x8 even, if necessary.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-15, 01:26 AM

The question is, how does it get in there, and if it's that big, how does it fit into your inventory :p

Hayoo

2004-07-15, 02:05 AM

The question is, how does it get in there,

Same way people hot-drop out. :) It's gotta be magic because we never see those passenger doors open. :p I'm sure some kind of quick-drop door could be added and an animation of the crate being drawn up. Or we could cheat and use the advanced tech energy animation for mounting an AT vehicle.

and if it's that big, how does it fit into your inventory :p

Same way that you can fit a bunch of AV or Vehicle ammo boxes in your inventory. Magic of Matrixing. :lol: An AV box is 4x4 and the Supply Crate would be 6x6 or 8x8. On the ground, it will be about human height. But the only vehicle it will be bigger than is probably a Basilisk or something.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-15, 02:25 AM

Fair enough. Gotta love those solid-state nanite matrixes.

What's next? :p

Hayoo

2004-07-15, 12:32 PM

What's next? :p

Sleep. :lol:

EarlyDawn

2004-07-15, 03:47 PM

You're not allowed. Back to work :p

Hayoo

2004-07-16, 04:02 PM

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/tower-repairsilo1.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/tower-repairsilo2.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/tower-repairsilo3.jpg

EarlyDawn

2004-07-16, 08:57 PM

Only on watchtowers, I hope.

Hayoo

2004-07-16, 10:50 PM

Only on watchtowers, I hope.

That's the initial idea, yeah, since repair silos will also be available at urban outposts. This is just something to make the watch towers as unique and valuable as the air towers. However, while the repair/rearm part is free, the capacitor recharge ability will only be an Outfit HQ base update (lasts as long as the HQ is there) or a rank-salary expenditure (lasts for only a few min).

Someone once posted about having a howitzer atop the gun towers. That would be pretty sweet. :)

Oh, here's another screenshot of the ntu silo that's also attached. These silos power the supply line (which includes capacitor recharging). Remember that an isolated tower can be captured, unlike an urban outpost, but unless it's connected to the supply line, the tower drains the silo till empty. After that, you can only get basic weapons and equipment. Equipment terminals, spawn tubes, and turrets continue to function, unlike a base.

I'm still debating the actual action that drains the silo, whether it's timer-based, respawn based, terminal use, etc.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/tower-ntusilo.jpg

EarlyDawn

2004-07-17, 12:01 AM

Sounds good. Tower NTUs for the win.

I don't really understand, though. How does salary work regarding capacitor recharges? You pay to refuel?

Hayoo

2004-07-17, 01:40 AM

Sounds good. Tower NTUs for the win.

I don't really understand, though. How does salary work regarding capacitor recharges? You pay to refuel?

You only have to pay if an OHQ hasn't activated the recharge-capacitor upgrade of the repair-silo. The repair and rearm is free no matter what.

The reason I did this is because if I made recharging completely free for everyone all the time, then there's no reason for it to be an OHQ upgrade (and that kind of upgrade is just too juicy to pass up for OHQ). Besides, they have to pay for powercells if they get it from a goods terminal at an urban outpost. It's pretty much the same thing. Also, friendly Urban Outpost repair silos will recharge for free, with or without an OHQ, so long as there's a supply line back to a Capitol or linked WG.

Orginally I had the recharging part deactivate if an OHQ hadn't picked that upgrade. Then I thought, well that's not fair to the non-outfit guy, he should be able to access the upgrade too if it's a friendly tower. And what if the Outfit there picked a different upgrade, how would they recharge? So I'm letting any player drive up and purchase a refill for a small one-time amount. And it's a communal service, so if one guy pays, the silo recharges everyone in the tower SOI...kinda like when an Adv Hacker access a terminal, everyone can use it. A player can still rearm and repair at a friendly tower for nothing. Same with air towers, an aircraft will use the pad in the same way.

I know people will resist pay for something as 'needed' as power, but that's the kind of thing the rank-salary will go for. It can't be used to buy uber weapons and such, it's a key to unlocking something which you wouldn't have access to otherwise. :)

Edit:Also remember that there are alternatives to the tower recharge:

Any friendly Facility SOI recharges vehicles for free (so long as there's a supply line back to the Capitol or a WG.
ANTs recharge vehicles for free
Lodestars recharge nearby vehicles for free
Warpgates automatically recharge vehicles for free
Any engineer carrying a powercell can use his Nano-dispenser's secondary fire to recharge a vehicle for free
A Landing Tarmac/NTU emplacement (i've combined the two) recharges both air and land vehicles.
A well organized squad can bring an extra ANT or bring a towed storage full of powercells

lots of other 'free' choices. A tower recharge is meant to be a special upgrade, allowing it to be a base of operations for an outfit in enemy territory. And of course there's the other upgrades like Turret weapons, longer IFF locks, Spawn-to-surface teleporter, barricades, MGs on the rails, etc.

Repair silos will also be used to 'store' vehicles and it's the same method as the recharge, but it's for all friendly silos everywhere: You drive up, hit G and then you can choose "store". I'm thinking one or two vehicles, like a locker. You can then go to any other friendly supply-linked vehicle terminal and retrieve your garaged vehicle. :)

This feature must be purchased as an upgrade at:

Outfit Barracks - once an outfit pays initial price and continued maintenance, it's a persistant upgrade anywhere.
Outfit Headquarters - once you pay initial price, it's a persistant upgrade for as long as the OHQ is active on a continent (OHQ's and their upgrades are removed if the authorized player cancels the HQ, cancels/changes the upgrade, or when the last outfit member signs off.
Friendly vehicle terminal - once you pay a small garage fee at the silo, it's persistant. Retrieving the vehicle is free.

One more thing, remember that such outfit upgrades will be Outfit Linked Benefits or Alliance Linked Benefits, if you prefer. Any allied outfit on the same cont will recieve the benefits your outfit paid for...so long as they have bought an OHQ upgrade themselves. Can't get something without giving something. :)

EarlyDawn

2004-07-17, 01:58 AM

I love the whole system of supply you've got going. Between the "implied" supply system (neighboring Zones) and "practical supply" (Bringing extra fuel, munitions and gear), the player gets the feeling of a real war.

BTW, I don't speak for all but I'd defenitely find a spawn-to-roof teleporter a more useful upgrade for Towers.

Hayoo

2004-07-17, 02:00 AM

I love the whole system of supply you've got going. Between the "implied" supply system (neighboring Zones) and "practical supply" (Bringing extra fuel, munitions and gear), the player gets the feeling of a real war.

Thanks, although a lot of people have helped me tweak and nudge it along, you included. :)

Sorry about the above post, I had to do some last minute editing. You might want to take another look at it, as I clarified/added a few things.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-17, 02:01 AM

Likewise, edited my post.

Hayoo

2004-07-17, 02:12 AM

BTW, I don't speak for all but I'd defenitely find a spawn-to-roof teleporter a more useful upgrade for Towers.

Heheh. Same here. Turret upgrades could be useful too, but against vehicle attacks turrets don't seem to last long. Suppression machineguns on the upper rails would be useful as well (I mentioned these in an earlier post), as is vehicle storage. AAaaaaah! it's hard to decide after the teleporter one. :)

There's lots of customization available if you have more than one outfit based there or more than one alliance-outfit on cont. Everyone benefits and it encourages outfits banding together for the common good.

7ruth

2004-07-17, 05:02 PM

All good stuff, hope we could see such a thing in-game someday.

Hayoo

2004-07-18, 09:53 PM

Work in Progress diagrams:

Unfinished illustration showing use of ANTs and powercells to recharge silos and AMS.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/ntudiagram.gif

Unfinished illustration showing supply line feature of the new territories.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/supplydiagram.gif

EarlyDawn

2004-07-18, 10:25 PM

A good recap of what we've been discussing.

JetRaiden

2004-07-18, 10:43 PM

Hayoo you should put everything together in a folder or something and bring it to PSU:MA. *just in case* a dev comes. such well done work (like Maglev) shouldnt go unnoticed.

Hayoo

2004-07-18, 11:56 PM

Hayoo you should put everything together in a folder or something and bring it to PSU:MA. *just in case* a dev comes. such well done work (like Maglev) shouldnt go unnoticed.

There's an idea. We'll see. :)

I added a ton more concept screens on the Idealab forums (WIP section) to depict each event described above, plus a few extras that EarlyDawn knows about.

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=24&st=0

NoSurrender

2004-07-19, 02:14 AM

i was gonna say slip a copy in with their stuff and label it as "TOP SECRET PROJECTS!!" but, thats always good too.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-19, 02:20 AM

I think I'd actually prefer that.

7ruth

2004-07-19, 11:01 AM

Hrm... yes that would be quite effective, I mean who doesn't open a folder that says that?!

Hayoo

2004-07-19, 11:26 AM

Hmm. I guess I could label it Top Secret Porn Project. They would surely open it then, I think.

EarlyDawn

2004-07-19, 08:35 PM

:lol:

7ruth

2004-07-20, 12:15 AM

Well if so, we'll be seeing Hayoo's Side pretty soon =D !

EarlyDawn

2004-07-20, 10:01 PM

Anything interesting on the horizion?

Hayoo

2004-07-20, 10:07 PM

Anything interesting on the horizion?

I have to create the vehicle capacitor for the HUD and get a pic of someone flying a lodestar with a reaver near them. Then I'll post it on the official forums in that Fuel thread, get feedback/confirmation, then publish it on Idealab. Then I'll see about moving on to Urban Areas and Emplacements.

7ruth

2004-07-20, 11:04 PM

I'd be happy to help, and I'm willing to venture a guess that Early is also =) thats with the whole Air refueling thing.

Hayoo

2004-07-21, 12:30 AM

I'd be happy to help, and I'm willing to venture a guess that Early is also =) thats with the whole Air refueling thing.

If you guys can do that (doesn't matter what empire the aircraft are) that would be really awesome. :love:

Third person or a shot of the aircraft from the ground would work best I think, so that people can see the proximity of the two together and would give us a chance to see the capacitor bar above the refueling aircraft.

7ruth

2004-07-21, 03:15 PM

I guess we need to get something organized then...

Doppler

2004-07-21, 03:45 PM

I whould LOVE to see reavers in this game face having to deal with actual longistics, its absolutely nuts since they added air towers how easy it is to user airpower in this game.

7ruth

2004-07-21, 06:47 PM

I have an Idea for Gal supply drops.

I was looking at your emplacement pictures for the hundredth time, and I saw the 'towed suppy'. So that got me thinking about its function, then Blamo! These would we perfect for Galaxy cargo drops.

*You spawn a towed supply with your Buggy/Deliverer.
*Stuff it with the NTU capacitors
*Back it into the Galaxy's cargo bay, where it automaticly detaches before your vehicle is driven off the ramp
*Galaxy Flys over dropzone away from the AMS
*The pilot or the owner eject the 'Towed Supply'
*A waiting buggy tows the supplys to a nearby AMS

That sounds a bit complicated but it really isn't

Doppler

2004-07-21, 07:02 PM

Ewwww AMS's shouldnt require resupply. Just EWwwwww.

Dharkbayne

2004-07-21, 07:16 PM

Hayoo, where do you get the time to think all of this up, really?

ARE YOU A TIME TRAVELLER/ROBOT/ROBOT TIME TRAVELLER?!

Hayoo

2004-07-21, 08:55 PM

I have an Idea for Gal supply drops.

I was looking at your emplacement pictures for the hundredth time, and I saw the 'towed suppy'. So that got me thinking about its function, then Blamo! These would we perfect for Galaxy cargo drops.

So the Towed Supply becomes the supply crate. Interesting. :)

If the devs could make it possible to automatically unhook and load a towed piece of equipment, then we could have that work for everyhing: the towed radar, comm tower, 155 artillery, AA gun, etc. That would be pretty cool. The only problem is that in my concept, you'd have to have Field Assault to acquire towed equipment. That translates as less gal drops.

Perhaps have it both ways then? Gals can load towed equipment or load the personal supply crates as described below:

Player goes to an equipment terminal and gets a Supply Crate . These are kinda big, probably a 6x6 box or larger.
Player drops crate on the floor and opens it with the G key like he would a trunk.
Player starts filling the crate with powercells, ammo, medkits, nano juice, ACEs, guns, etc. from his inventory.
The supply crate can hold as much as a Deliverer. Supply Crates cannot be placed inside other supply crates.
Player places crate back in his inventory and runs outside.
Player drops box on the ground and selects permissions to "Empire" so that other can access the contents and pick it up in a gal.
Galaxy drops in and hovers near. A message appears to click "G" to pick up Supply Crate.
Galaxy pilot accepts, loading the box into the Vehicle Bay, and flies off to destination.
Once over the target, the Gal pilot accesses his Vehicle window, selects the Vehicle Bay slot, and ejects the box from the aircraft. OR he can simply click the 'eject Vehicle Bay' icon that appeared in his hotbar when he picked up the box.
Supply Crate falls with inertial dampners and lands.
Besieged players rush to the box and can grab it's contents since it's permissions were still set to "Empire".
Should the owner of the box (only one crate allowed per player) decide he doesn't want that pilot carrying his stuff, he can switch the permissions to Group or None and the crate will immediately eject from it's Vehicle Bay to the ground.

Ewwww AMS's shouldnt require resupply. Just EWwwwww.

:D They only need supply when in enemy controlled territory after the Zerg has drained them dry. Once an AMS's capacitor is drained, players can still spawn there, but they just can't acquire Rexo, HA, SA, AV, MAX ammo, etc.

This prevents someone just parking one at the backdoor and letting Heavy troops pour in magically. In my concept, a player can still park at the BD, but because they are deep in enemy territory it only makes sense that it doesn't have a magically sustained supply of the heaviest equipment.

With a little extra planning, all an AMS driver has to do is drive an ANT to a warpgate, fill it up, remove some of the powercells, hope in an AMS, drive to the base, deploy, then refill as needed so that troops can still suit up in Rexo, HA, SA, whatever. Even better, he can get a friend to follow him in an ANT and park it in the warpbubble, deploying it every so often to refill the AMS.

Hayoo, where do you get the time to think all of this up, really?

ARE YOU A TIME TRAVELLER/ROBOT/ROBOT TIME TRAVELLER?!

LOL :lol: It only looks like I've spent a lot of time. If you go back through Idealab's news archive you'll see that updates are few and far between, a product of having to work for a living and raising a son. Idealab is about 6 months old now, but the concepts date to Sept 2003.

7ruth

2004-07-22, 04:25 PM

Well you could make field assualt a 1 point cert, I have that 1 cert left over and I'm BR 20.

Would this be a viable system?
1.)You access a Certification Terminal and invest 1 cert into 'Field Assualt', under support.
2.)You automaticly get the 'Towed Supply Crate', similiar to how ANT is in every cert.
3.)You are presented with a sub-menu below Field Assualt that includes:
*Towed radar
*Com Tower
*155 mm artillery
*AA gun
Ect...
4.)Since you invested 1 cert into field assualt you are given 1 Equipment point
5.)You use this equipment point to gain access to towed 155 mm Artillery

maybe it wouldn't be so great... at least its some what constructive.

How about along with wep/veh/sup certs we could have Field Assualt certs?
Under field certs would be towed deployables and um... other things. Damn TV...

Hayoo

2004-07-22, 05:09 PM

Well you could make field assualt a 1 point cert, I have that 1 cert left over and I'm BR 20.

I was just thinking about that this morning, actually. :) The problem is that with the system I have now, towed equipment can only be acquired if you have a heavy buggy or Deliverer...and maybe a Sunderer. Otherwise if people didn't have a transport, they'd grab the towed supply from a veh terminal, repair silo, or special termial (haven't decided) but then it would just sit there until a vehicle came along to pull it away. The potential for a traffic jam is just huge. There would have to be a new voice marcro for "We need a tow!" for all the equipment just sitting around.

So the logical conclusion is that one of those transports should be a pre-req for getting Field Assault. It would either be purchasable at the pad and you drive off with it at vehicle creation, or you drive the transport up to whatever and it magically attaches to your vehicle and you drive off with it.

Would this be a viable system?
1.)You access a Certification Terminal and invest 1 cert into 'Field Assualt', under support.
2.)You automaticly get the 'Towed Supply Crate', similiar to how ANT is in every cert.
3.)You are presented with a sub-menu below Field Assualt that includes:
*Towed radar
*Com Tower
*155 mm artillery
*AA gun
Ect...
4.)Since you invested 1 cert into field assualt you are given 1 Equipment point
5.)You use this equipment point to gain access to towed 155 mm Artillery

maybe it wouldn't be so great... at least its some what constructive.

How about along with wep/veh/sup certs we could have Field Assualt certs?
Under field certs would be towed deployables and um... other things. Damn TV...

Making Field Assault cheaper still won't allow for more gal drops. That's why I'd go for having both kinds available to put in a Gal for drop: a Supply Crate small enough to fit in a player's inventory, kinda like a dufflebag on steroids; and the Towed Supply, which is towed by a transport but should be storable in a Galaxy.

Best of both worlds, you see. Supply drops will be available to everyone and heavier supply drops (via dropping a towed supply) would be available for a few certs (transport cert-2, field assault cert-1, friend's gal cert-3)

Putting in Equipment points is a whole 'nother can of worms all together. :)

At the very least, I can give the Towed Supply to transports as a free addon (this will promote more convenient carrying of NTU powercells into battle). To get the other towed weapon and such, they'd have to cert in Field Assault.

Hayoo

2004-07-23, 02:17 AM

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/ant-trunk1b.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/ntu-vehtrunk.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/eng_recharge_veh2.jpg

New image:

http://planetside-idealab.com/images/aircrafthud03.jpg

Work in progress: working on better ways to illustrate supply lines and urban outpost concepts.

http://planetside-idealab.com/images/mapdetails.jpg

JetRaiden

2004-07-23, 02:42 AM

me :love: Hayoo

Hayoo

2004-07-23, 11:22 PM

me :love: Hayoo

:lol: Thx JetRaiden

EarlyDawn

2004-07-23, 11:43 PM

Little white things are emplacement markers?

Hayoo

2004-07-24, 12:38 AM

Little white things are emplacement markers?

Yeah, for right now I have the box-shaped ones are support/non-combat emplacements like med station, command post, service platform, etc. And the one with the little stick coming out is a weapon emplacement (AA gun, 100m howitzer, SAM missile, etc.). I'm debating whether the actual types of these should show on the map.

The service platform is a combination landing tarmac and capacitor recharging node and having this shown on the map would certainly be beneficial. But if I show that one, I can't logically explain why I can't show the others as well. And yet if I do that, spies will be able to target command posts. We don't have this problem so much with friendly AMSs because they're hidden on the map.

I definately want enemy emplacements to be revealed through the Comtech's intel abilities, which can intercept communications as well as an enemy's waypoints and emplacements in a certain area or time limit. The info revealed by the Comtechs can then be used by the unit commanders to punch a hole through defenses or target vital systems such as recharge points, command posts, communiations towers, etc.

I'm open to any ideas though as for showing friendly emplacements on a map. Should their types show for friendlies or no? If yes, should it be only in a certain radius or cont-wide like deployables? If no, how do friendlies find recharge points or med stations?

EarlyDawn

2004-07-24, 03:42 AM

Hayoo

2004-07-24, 11:52 PM

I've always thought that the devs should find some way to stop trying to fight spying-If someone wants to two box, they will- and build it into the game as a gameplay mechanic that's controllable and fun for everybody.

Don't know how you'd go about that.

Well, I do have the Comtech cert for intel gathering/spying. I suppose I could just give players the benefit of the doubt and go ahead with displaying little icons on each of the emplacement markers to tell people whether it's a howitzer, med station, or command post. *shrug* Why not, I mean a spy can spawn at an AMS and then broadcast it's location anyway. :(

EarlyDawn

2004-07-29, 01:09 AM

Where art thou, Hayoo? Can we expect any interesting publishes soon?

Hayoo

2004-07-29, 09:04 AM

Workin on it.

In creating map-diagrams to better explain the NTU changes, I realized the same maps could be used to describe Urban Outposts, supply lines, and numerous other things. So I'm taking the time to get those done too.

Plus I've been out of town since Tuesday night and don't get back till later today.

Hayoo

2004-07-29, 06:56 PM

currently working on updating territory maps with colored fields and new zone lines.

I'll be using these kinds of maps to illustrate concepts of NTU changes, supply line, urban outposts, and use of deployable emplacements.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/oshurmaps-colorterritory_med.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/oshurmaps-colorterritory_zoom.jpg

Hayoo

2004-07-30, 02:44 AM

Where art thou, Hayoo? Can we expect any interesting publishes soon?

Well, in the Idealab WIP forum I posted concept graphics for storing vehicles in a 'garage'. As I was preparing maps to describe the concepts mentioned above, I realized the garage would need to be explained since it was described as an Outfit upgrade.

So here is what I posted in the WIP board:

Requests for storing vehicles has been around for quite a while. My version has been added as an upgrade for Outfit Barracks and/or Headquarters, and has relations to the Urban Outpost, supply line, and rank salary concepts. An individual without an outfit or whose outfit has not purchased the vehicle storage upgrade, may still store a vehicle, but it will be something that has to be purchased with their 'salary.'

To store something in your garage, a player drives their vehicle up to a service silo and hits "G" as normal. They must select "Garage" and then may choose "Store Current Vehicle" or select and Delete a currently stored vehicle. Storing a vehicle will save it's current loadout as well. Players will be able to store a minimum of 2 vehicles at a time.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/garage-ui_silo2.jpg

Also, to store a vehicle, the territory they are in must be connected to the 'supply line' in some way and if at a base or outpost it must have power. Towers lose storing capability if their NTU level drops to 0% (since they do not have a generator).

To retrieve a vehicle, a player goes to any vehicle terminal at a facility or outpost, hits the G key as normal, then selects Garage. The player can then select a stored vehicle and hit 'Acquire' to spawn the vehicle as normal. No tech plant will be required to retrieve stored vehicles, only a supply line to a Capitol or to a linked warpgate.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/garage-ui_terminal2.jpg

*note=the deliverer is suppose to be an Aurora.

7ruth

2004-07-31, 08:10 PM

Hayoo is teh Greetist!

Hayoo

2004-08-02, 01:33 AM

It's getting there.

And yes the full map is huge. I cropped the full image, originally at 2500x2700 and 17MB, down to 800x600 to show just two bases. I then reduced that image down to this one at 640x480 to keep the size more manageable.

Note = the No Baggage sign means No Supply at that location (i.e. only provides up to Agile Armor, Medium Assault gear, and Support equipment). The % signs on the towers represent the NTU levels that govern supply when 'cut off' from friendly territory.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/oshurmaps-soi_B_sml.jpg

Hayoo

2004-08-08, 01:07 AM

Graphics descriptions found here: http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=pstestserver&message.id=7221#M7221

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_conts_planets.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_space_planets.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_orbital_conts.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_orbital_space.jpg

Rbstr

2004-08-08, 01:11 AM

i'm cunfuzzled by this starchart bussiness

EarlyDawn

2004-08-08, 02:54 AM

Isn't it logical that one of the planets in Amerish's system would be Amerish? :p

Hayoo

2004-08-08, 04:57 PM

oops. forgot to put names of the sea port/star ports. oh well, I fix that when I get back Monday.

Hayoo

2004-08-26, 08:52 PM

Revised Global/Stellar map:

Figure 1: Added continent information to planets (hotspots, pop locks, etc), new planet targeting, etc.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_space_planets_B.jpg

Figure 2: Changed arrangement to Obiwaan's proposed layout, grid changed to radial pattern, permanent link lines, etc.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_space_planets_C-radial.jpg

JetRaiden

2004-08-26, 08:58 PM

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/oshurmaps-soi_B_sml.jpg

omfg.

you=god

Thunder_Hawk

2004-08-26, 10:33 PM

Are you aware that you made the battle islands the center of the universe in fig2?

I think the radial grid looks better. also, should there be something that signifies squad/platoon wps, on the interstellar view? and for the caverns that are locked, but their time instead of 100+ base if you can't get in, i doubt there be anyone in there.

but i have a question on the interstellar map. would the number of hotspots on the continate reflect the number of hotspot markers on the interstellar map?

other thats the afore mentioned, i would prefur the fig2. the conention lines arn't in the way.

btw, you are a god

Hayoo

2004-08-26, 11:44 PM

Glad you guys are liking the maps :)

Are you aware that you made the battle islands the center of the universe in fig2?

lol. I was just following Obiwaan's layout.

I think the radial grid looks better. also, should there be something that signifies squad/platoon wps, on the interstellar view?

Hmm, I dunno, perhaps. I wouldn't want it to get too crowded. I'll fiddle with it and see.

and for the caverns that are locked, but their time instead of 100+ base if you can't get in, i doubt there be anyone in there.

Oh, I was too lazy to check that. :) I'll get around to it eventually.

would the number of hotspots on the continate reflect the number of hotspot markers on the interstellar map?

No, just a reflection of action on the planet. Max of 2 or 3 hotspots would be pulsing around the world depending on the amount of battles going on.

Hamma

2004-08-27, 09:44 AM

Hotness :thumbsup:

Hayoo

2004-08-27, 12:45 PM

Just an FYI, some of the improvements included on these maps are inspired/suggested from Gondorian's Slight Change in Map (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdevdiscussion&message.id=48850) thread and Hedron's Is it just me or has the new lattice/map drained the urgency from the global game? (http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdiscussion&message.id=249592) thread

Ok, here is the revised map.

Colored in grid areas per ZeusPrime's suggestion.
Added in number of bases owned per BzA's suggestion .
To keep this from cluttering the map more, I only show bases owned if that empire has a base on the continent (with the exception of the caverns). In this case the perspective is from NC.
Added percentage of your empire's troops to each cont window
again, perspective is from the Empire of the player viewing the map.
Changed the planet selections back to boxes except for the primary planet, which has a circular reticle to set it apart.
For the second map posted here I removed the Domination logo from each planet to see if it's necessary or not.

I'm still fiddling with fredthedeadhead's suggestion to show friendly/enemy links for each cont window

Figure 1: with domination logos
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_space_planets_radial-territories.jpg

Figure 2: without domination logos
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_space_planets_radial-territories_no-logo.jpg

Thunder_Hawk

2004-08-27, 05:38 PM

i feel that there is a redundancy with who is controling the planet. there is the logo above the planet, the color glow of the planet, and the area it ocupies in the radial grid. i think the most effective one is the empire logo but the color glow is nice. the color on the grid seems to break up the starfield background and i personally dislike it.

the way i see people should use the map is to look at the interstellar view for the hole picture. for more detailed information, they need to look at the planetary view along the side. for the map to be succesful, listing out the data into the detailed look and the overview look is essental. you must also know that 2 types of people will be using the map for different purposes. I as a common grunt use the map to find where people are fighting. Using the maps to have designed, i would use the interstellar map mostly, then looking at the planet views to get a better understand of where i need to go. commanders need to know the bigger picture and the more information on the interstellar map, the better for them. i would suggest having toggles like the current map has now. I don't need to know how many bases we have on a planet but a CR5 does. that information for me would just be clutter so i hope i would be able to toggle it on/off.

I also feel that it is redunant listing how map bases your empire ontrols in the interstellar view. people can quickly glance to the side and see how many bases your empire controls.

yet another question i have, on the planetary view, will the warpgrate's color reflect the empire controling the other side? ie: the wg is red if tr has a lock on the other side

Indecisive

2004-08-27, 06:37 PM

I say make the the boarder islands eleventy seven times bigger. Or at least 2. Maybe 3.

Shrink the stellar thing and grow the continents so you can see it better "at a glance"

7ruth

2004-08-27, 11:28 PM

Ive been wondering why the CORE caverns aren't in the middle, I mean it would make sense wouldn't it?

I also think they should look like some sort of power cores, since the crystaline structures absorbe energy. They should be encased in a structure similar to a Geowarp. Heres a crude picture of what I'm thinking:

-=</\>=-
::-=0=-::
-=<\/>=-

Hayoo

2004-08-28, 01:10 AM

i feel that there is a redundancy with who is controling the planet. there is the logo above the planet, the color glow of the planet, and the area it ocupies in the radial grid. i think the most effective one is the empire logo but the color glow is nice. the color on the grid seems to break up the starfield background and i personally dislike it.

The logo and planet glow denote Capitol Domination. The grid color denotes a planet lock.

Yes, all extra information would have a toggle.

I also feel that it is redunant listing how map bases your empire ontrols in the interstellar view. people can quickly glance to the side and see how many bases your empire controls.

A chorus of posters were desiring as much information in the center area as possible, whether it's redudant with the side windows or not. They didn't want to have to look at a planet then search up and down the sides for the corresponding continent to get the information they needed. Having toggled info in the center provides an easy compromise. If people don't want to see that, they can leave it off.

yet another question i have, on the planetary view, will the warpgrate's color reflect the empire controling the other side? ie: the wg is red if tr has a lock on the other side

The warpgate colors will probably stay as the devs have made them, to help people recognize which gate links to what gate on another continent. As for links themselves, fredthedeadhead has suggested that very thing, showing friendly or enemy links branching off from the continents in the side windows. In the Slight Map Change thread (see link above), I believe he has an illustration already made up for people to check out.

Super_Ryu7

2004-08-30, 10:46 AM

more empire specific weapons and vehicals would be sweet there are not many now...

Hayoo

2004-08-30, 03:11 PM

more empire specific weapons and vehicals would be sweet there are not many now...

I agree, but that subject is a bit off topic, don't you think? :p

EarlyDawn

2004-08-30, 03:17 PM

I think he's requesting that you brainstorm some up sometime in the future. This is what you get when you start advertising good ideas, people start looking up to you to make their notions a reality.

Hayoo

2004-08-30, 06:58 PM

I think he's requesting that you brainstorm some up sometime in the future. This is what you get when you start advertising good ideas, people start looking up to you to make their notions a reality.

Gotcha. Well, Super_Ryu7, new weps and vehicles will have to wait a while as I have quite a backlog of stuff that needs doing. But eventually, yeah, more stuff on the way.

Makes me wish I were getting paid. :p

Hayoo

2004-08-31, 03:19 PM

Revision 4 to map (aka Complete Overhaul! TM)

It's easy to see that simply sticking continents in space, as many have suggested, just wouldn't work. So I came up with another solution through myriad sketches and scribblings:

Remove the side cont windows, but keep one window that displays the selected planet (this helps avoid the future problem of not having enough side windows for additional planets).

Give the global map the ability to zoom in but lets you scroll across the starmap to view another planet at the same zoom level, or jump from one planet to another using an overview window.

When the starmap is zoomed in, place the image of the continent on each planet (making sure there's future room for at least 2 more large conts or island clusters per world). This allows the display of warplinks on each landmass.

Situate the planets close enough so you can see at a glance which planets connect to the one you're looking at.

The redesigned layout uses the current improvements I've illustrated in previous posts as the view for the stellar map. But now you can zoom in close to the planets to reveal continents on each globe. In the Zoomed View, clicking on a continent will reveal it's warpgate links to each planet it connects to (this is another reason to arrange the planets in a radial fashion, so that the links are closer together). You may double click on a planet or its continent at anytime in this view to bring up the continent or cluster map, which will have tabs for easy toggling between orbital, planetary, cluster, and continent views.

Layout elements:
Top windows: Your location; cavern windows
Side windows: Galaxy Overview (w/zoom slider), Selected region window (orbit, planet, continent), Region incentives, and Chat pane.
Center area: zoomable starmap

Since the latest UI is only halfway done, I'm only going to show thumbnails.

Standard View (planet links shown)
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_sidelayout_01_sml.jpg

Zoomed In (warpgate locations revealed)
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_sidelayout_02_sml.jpg

http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=psdevdiscussion&message.id=48850

Hayoo

2004-09-01, 12:08 AM

Full size images of overhauled map finally up:

Zoomed out view
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_sidelayout_01.jpg

Zoomed in View (land warpgates)
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_sidelayout_02.jpg

Zoomed in View (orbital singularities)
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_sidelayout_03.jpg

Collapsed windows
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_sidelayout_04.jpg

Continent map tabs
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/newmap_clusterview.jpg

EarlyDawn

2004-09-01, 12:14 AM

:cheers: :cheers:

Hamma

2004-09-01, 11:16 AM

Sweet :thumbsup:

Hayoo

2004-09-01, 11:31 PM

:) glad you guys like it.

7ruth

2004-09-03, 08:43 PM

Why Is oshur is the center??? Why not the mysterious core?

oh BTW #400 baby!

Hayoo

2004-09-04, 02:15 PM

Why Is oshur is the center??? Why not the mysterious core?

oh BTW #400 baby!

It's only by virtue of it being equal distance between all the empires, plus with the one island being called Nexus, for now it seems appropriate. When/If they start adding more planets, then I can move Oshur from the center.

Hayoo

2004-09-13, 12:18 PM

Graphics showing how the lattice and zones work with sea gates.

Sea gates provide more environments to fight in and more options for invading a planet.

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/seagates.gif

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/seagate2.gif

EarlyDawn

2004-09-13, 02:31 PM

The issue I see with sea areas is that you could conceivably spread the population too thin.

Hayoo

2004-09-13, 03:01 PM

The issue I see with sea areas is that you could conceivably spread the population too thin.

The same was said of Core Combat and Space. As with any expansion, additions for the type of game that Planetside is should only be released as the population expands or if you can garauntee a population explosion. Otherwise there's no point, seeing as unlike most MMO games, there are no NPC targets out there.

With BFRs coming out, PS is seeing signs of attracting attention from areas that weren't interested before. If SOE can dangle the hook, more players will bite.

martyr

2004-09-13, 03:38 PM

^they're getting me to buy core combat, that's surely and indication

EarlyDawn

2004-09-14, 05:18 PM

The same was said of Core Combat and Space. As with any expansion, additions for the type of game that Planetside is should only be released as the population expands or if you can garauntee a population explosion. Otherwise there's no point, seeing as unlike most MMO games, there are no NPC targets out there.

With BFRs coming out, PS is seeing signs of attracting attention from areas that weren't interested before. If SOE can dangle the hook, more players will bite.Moot point. We have little to no activity in the caverns as of now, and they needed to implement BFRs to try and shift some people down there.

The water and space areas better have some goodies if you want people to fight over them.

Hayoo

2004-09-14, 05:41 PM

Moot point. We have little to no activity in the caverns as of now, and they needed to implement BFRs to try and shift some people down there.

The water and space areas better have some goodies if you want people to fight over them.

Actually your first point was that including new areas could spread the population too thin. I pointed out that the same thing was said of Core Combat but because they're so empty we've still yet to see whether the caverns actually thin out the population. The jury is still out on that. Being aware of this, that's why I said an expansion should not be released unless you know you have the server population or that you can expect one from the added content. Keeping that in mind, I'm perfectly comfortable conceptualizing about future additions with the assumption that there will be a large enough population to use it. I'm no fortune teller, so I can afford to be optimistic. :p

EarlyDawn

2004-09-14, 06:40 PM

I often wish that people would just fight for their empire, instead of what's good for them..

Warborn

2004-09-14, 07:05 PM

I often wish that people would just fight for their empire, instead of what's good for them..

Only way that'll happen is if what's good for them and what's good for the empire go hand-in-hand.

EarlyDawn

2004-09-14, 07:35 PM

Yep.

Hayoo

2004-09-18, 10:14 PM

I've put up a new topic on Idealab for discussing Outfit Management Interface improvements. Suggestions/ideas/feedback are welcome.

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=83

example of rough mockups:
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/outfit interface-roster.jpg

JetRaiden

2004-09-18, 10:18 PM

I've put up a new topic on Idealab for discussing Outfit Management Interface improvements. Suggestions/ideas/feedback are welcome.

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=83

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/outfit interface-roster.jpg

oh.

my.

god.

I love you. :love:

CassH

2004-09-19, 12:19 AM

:eek:

you are god

/insert worshiping here

you are :cool2:

Madcow

2004-09-19, 12:27 AM

Seriously. I know you shrug all the talk off, Hayoo, but they'd be pretty smart to give you a shot on their team. The completely uneducated impression I got from the PSUMA talk is that they were fairly impressed with you, and I don't see why they wouldn't be. 99% of the stuff you come up with is so much more common sense, and so much more necessary than a lot of what we actually get. It especially takes a special talent to be universally respected on the OF and not raise the ire of the dev team with your ideas. You should be on the payroll.

GreyFlcn

2004-09-19, 01:23 AM

Nice one Hayoo :D

Maybe I should toss a few ideas your way. See what you can make of em.

---

Critque: Awesome step from the current Outfit Panel.

Perhaps you might consider making a "Squad Panel"
One which you can see similar information, with a focus on certs.
Namely the ability to sort certs

Listed like:
( GreyFlcn ) MA,HA,AV,Eng,AdvMed,ReXo,ABuggy

*Sorted originally by Weapons, Support, Armors, Vehicles

Once you click on a cert, the squads certs are then sorted by that.

Lets say you click advanced medic, all the members with advmedic float to the top
Followed by those with Medical

Or similarly Those with AirCav are followed by those with those Mosquito

Also perhaps shift the entire category forward. Meaning Light Scout squadies would have their other vehicle certs following.
As well as the rest of the non-light scout members vehicles listed afterward.

-

Heh, but I'd probably have to make this into a picture to make any sense :P

martyr

2004-09-19, 01:24 AM

holy crap grey, i thought i saw you quitting a couple months ago! wb, i guess?

CassH

2004-09-19, 02:25 AM

That would be great he knows what we like and want

But sadly Sony is fairly cheap and it probably wont happen. :(

Hayoo

2004-09-19, 12:52 PM

Thanks guys :) But really I'm just trying to put good ideas into a clear interface. Tons of inspiration comes from you guys. Outfit improvements have been asked about for a long time. Please keep providing feedback on ideas and the look and feel of the graphics, so I can create some really good mockups.

Greyflcn, those are some neat ideas. An improved squad interface is going to be an even more involved task than an outfit interface. But I think we can come up with something that satisfies most, if not all, desires. EarlyDawn and Phasey have suggested some good squad search/sorting improvements that I'm hoping to adapt. Feel free to join us on Idealab. I think squad interfaces will be my next focus after Deployable Emplacements and Outfit Management.

edit: BTW, I was really impressed with the Intelligence Officer utility, and it's that kind of flexibility and orginzational control I would like to include in any squad improvements.

martyr

2004-09-19, 01:18 PM

cassh: hayoo has a particularly good history when it comes to catching soe's notice and getting his stuff implemented. have no fear.

Hayoo

2004-09-19, 01:25 PM

Whoops, forgot to add this graphics update I made to the Medic improvements section:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/reviving_01.jpg

Indecisive

2004-09-19, 01:52 PM

WALLHACK!!!!!!

Leet :p

EarlyDawn

2004-09-19, 02:17 PM

Nifty. And that will flash if you're down and do the "We need a Medic" macro, correct?

Hayoo

2004-09-19, 02:22 PM

Nifty. And that will flash if you're down and do the "We need a Medic" macro, correct?

Correct. This helps get the medic's attention because they can see this symbol through both walls and floors. If needed, I can even add exclamation points on either side of the symbol that flash when macroing "We need a Medic."

Alternatively, a live person asking for a medic will have the medic symbol and exclamation points flash above their head, like so:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/needmacros.jpg

Less confusing that way.

EarlyDawn

2004-09-19, 02:27 PM

The biggest problem I see is communication. It's very hard for the downed player to know if there's any medics on their way. Any solution?

Hayoo

2004-09-19, 02:51 PM

The biggest problem I see is communication. It's very hard for the downed player to know if there's any medics on their way. Any solution?

Well, in my respawn improvements there's the indicator to know whether an Adv Medic is in your area. I'm thinking Adv Medics can respond through chat to any "We Need a Medic" calls from corpses. "I hear you guys, I'm on my way!" can be broadcast to any corpses within the adv medic's area. Kind of a Med-Net ability I guess.

Baneblade

2004-09-19, 02:59 PM

I always thought that the best way to get Adv Meds to do something would be to let them rez you up until the time you would respawn.

EarlyDawn

2004-09-19, 03:05 PM

Well, in my respawn improvements there's the indicator to know whether an Adv Medic is in your area. I'm thinking Adv Medics can respond through chat to any "We Need a Medic" calls from corpses. "I hear you guys, I'm on my way!" can be broadcast to any corpses within the adv medic's area. Kind of a Med-Net ability I guess.Interesting.

Hayoo

2004-09-19, 03:37 PM

I always thought that the best way to get Adv Meds to do something would be to let them rez you up until the time you would respawn.

Yup, that's in the improvements.

The other idea is taken from Wolfenstien, apparently: that your wait time before hitting the respawn button counts toward your respawn timer.

Rbstr

2004-09-19, 03:51 PM

yeah i realy liek RTCW:EE's medic model. I would totaly redo the sysmte to make it work like that, instant revive, using 25 med ammo, and ranged stimpack/needles that heal 25 health per shot, usning 10 med ammo w/ a 4 meter range

GreyFlcn

2004-09-19, 04:13 PM

Oddly, in general, I think PlanetSide actually has TOO MANY ingame HUDs

Namely the
health/armor bars, infantry, vehicles, deployables
Waypoints
Platoon bar
Gun bar

Often times I turn off all the HUDs, and it's rather suprising how GOOD PlanetSide looks without em.

A strong example would be SpitFire Turrets and Motion Sensors.
Theres really not any reason that you need to have their name listed above.
The only information needed is if it's friendly, and a vague notion of how much armor it's got.
Doing this could be accomplished by having just an simple armor bar.

All bets are off on energy equipment though, with the Enhanced Targeting.
More info, the better.

Another simple example would be this, as compared to this:
http://www.greyfalcon.net/gamehud.jpg
http://www.greyfalcon.net/ams.jpg

Rbstr

2004-09-19, 06:01 PM

your Old school AMS mower, shit

EarlyDawn

2004-09-19, 10:16 PM

Just a quick note: Planetside Idealab now has an IRC channel. Just log onto PSU's IRC server and type /join #idealab .

You can use this to discuss your concepts, or talk about the idealab concepts in a live fashion.

Enjoy!

7ruth

2004-09-20, 05:38 PM

Cool =)

Indecisive

2004-09-20, 05:58 PM

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/needmacros.jpg

/me right clicks on hayoo trying to open up a new griffon flight path

Hayoo

2004-09-21, 12:08 AM

Yeah, Greyflcn. That would be very nice to have (truncated kills spam).

@Gohan: griffin flight plan? :)

oddfish

2004-09-22, 09:11 PM

Hey, Hayoo :D

out of curiosity, has any buzz been created about the temporary and semi-mobile (needs to be moved by vehicle) Artillery/Machinegun/Anti-air installations/nests/outposts ???

We'd discussed this not too long ago and I still think that this concept would vastly improve the game due to its ability to open up the playing field and offer new goals to the player-base. I just think that capping and re-capping bases all day isn't always fun and perhaps setting up ambushes with Machine Gun Nests and setting up artillery or anti aircraft outposts would be very cool. As would be getting a team together to assault them.

I look at it this way. You cap the weaponry just like you hack a vehicle or console or whatever and anyone can do it (hackers just do it faster) all except for machine gun nests which don't need hacked to be used. Anyways, hacking Guns gets you CEP if you're the squad/platoon leader because obviously you put together quite an assault to be able to take over an outpost. And you get BEP if you're not in command. Hacking the guns gives you BEP or CEP, depending. And destroying enemy guns gives you BEP. Not a lot, but about the same amount you'd get for single handedly taking down a MAX unit.

I think this would be a great addition because AT and AA outposts would be discreet and could be anywhere, so you'd have to form scout and assault teams to find and take them out. Plus, there'd be columns of Deliverers (which i think should be responsible for transport of the weapons) roaming the countryside to set up outposts, and this, of course, would mean that there'd be people out there interested in setting up ambushes and hunting down the columns. This opens up SOOOOO many different options when you sign on to play. Because now you don't just have to cap bases and towers. NOW you can ambush, scout, assault and set up outposts. Engineers will have a new responsibility as well since they'll have to maintain and defend the outposts with spitfires and the like.

Now, as far as machine gun nests are concerned. I think that it would be a nice little addition to the common pool. It'd take up quite a bit of space in your inventory, but you wouldn't have it in there long to begin with. You run out to where you want to put it. You set it up like deploying anything from an ACE (only it takes a bit longer) and then you can either man it or leave it for someone else. It has it's own ammunition store and a metal shield that offers a mild degree of frontal protection, but it has to be maintained. It will stay in place, just like a spitfire or mine, but, like i said, it runs out of ammo, and it takes damage just like anything else. This MG would be Common Pool and it would be pretty damn good at taking out both infantry and vehicles, as AP rounds would be availible to it as well.

Now, Artillery would be Empire Specific, i think. This would provide even more incentive to capturing enemy outposts.

AA may just be some kind of quad barreled flak gun. dunno, perhaps empire specific, like an immobile MAX or something.

Arty would require a gunner and and the help of a spotter that would use Binoculars or a laser, whichever. AA would just be a gunner.

Deliverers would be the transports (which makes the ground transport cert more necessary and appealing) and certing in GT would give you the option to hook on an AT piece at the Vehicle Terminal. Now, there'd be a looooooooong down time before you could get another Arty piece. This way the world wouldn't be flooded with 'em. And only GT can get Arty pieces. Which is good because that too will prevent flooding and over-use. Whoring, if you will.

Also, Arty and AA can't be set up in a base's SOI. They also can't spawn on/in a tower. Neither can MG nests. These are all outside deployables only because they're meant to open the playing field. Open it. OPEN.

As far as my idea for the Deliverer being the tow vehicle of choice: well, that's simple. It's a transport vehicle with a big trunk. I say hitch the arty and AA pieces up to it and carry their ammo in the trunk. That's another thing. Ammo. AA and Arty pieces will not come with their own ammo supply upon acquisiton. You have to load the trunk of the Deliverer up from a Vehicle Repar/Refit station or load it up from an Equip Terminal with the ammo, and then supply the Arty and AA guns by carrying the ammo and inserting it into the guns themselves once they're deployed. Kinda like in real life, only not. :D

Some common points that are made:

"Won't arty stations be Liberator food?"
- Not if AA is set up properly to defend from air assault. If an outpost is defended properly then it shouldn't fall until it is taken down. On the other hand, if an outpost isn't properly defended than it, just like any other target, deserves to be Liberator food.

"There'll be nests and outposts everywhere. Whores! Whores!"
-Negative. There'll be significant down time on all AA and Arty piece acquisition. Even the MG nest will have down time, albeit shorter than the AA and Arty downtime.

"Why shouldn't Adv. Engineers just get these things as upgrades?"
-Because i think that it's stupid to give a cert that already has plenty of stuff to go with it more stuff only availible to it. GT needs a buff. (i don't cert in GT, i cert in Armored Assault, get off my case) Besides, Deli's got pretty nice trunk space to load up ammo for the Guns.

"Won't it take a while to set up outposts? Won't that make them inconvenient?"
-No. Simple reason why: If you've got enough guys doing it then it shouldn't take long to set any of it up. Now, sure, they'll be a tad be time consuming to set up, but not inconvenient. This way more time and effort will be put into defending the outposts. And, by that merit, more time will be put into assaulting them. :D

"There'll be Machine Gun nests all over creation!"
-Not really. They'll be in places similar to spitfires. Also, they'll be set in defense of outposts and such. You may see a MG nest in some remote place every once in a while. But, you see Spitfires in remote places every once in a while as well. So, stfu. :D

"Anyone can shoot the guns! Won't people be fighting over who gets to shoot 'em! WTF?"
-That's something that players will have to figure out amongst themselves. Learn to work together, guys. That's why we have empires and teams and what not. :D

"When BFR's come out, won't this make the outposts wayyy to easy to destroy?"
-No, as i said before, i properly defended outpost shouldn't have anything to worry about as long as the force that is attacking it isn't properly equipped to destroy it. Sure, a BFR will have less trouble taking out an outpost than say, a team of three guys in REXO, but still, that only makes sense. BFR's will have their share to worry about when attacking an outpost. Those arty guns will be nice anti-BFR tools ;)

"If that's the case, then won't this make BFR's waaay to easy to destroy?"
-Again, no. Why? Because BFR's will just have to learn to negotiate Arty fire. That's all. Like anything else, if you cert in something you have to learn to adapt to combat with that cert. Certed in BFR? Better learn to fight with BFR. If you're getting owned, then maybe you should find a new cert. ;)

"How will this add balance or make the game better, then?"
-As i said before, it'll open it up and make use of all that wide open space on these beautifully laid out continents that often go unexplored by most players. :D Plus, it provides new objectives and new jobs. It makes the game more interesting. As far as balance is concerned, why does it have to balance something that's already balanced. And i find it impossible to think that this idea would fuck up the balance.

"Doesn't this seem like maybe it'd be too much work for the dev's"
-Let's let the Dev's decide, eh? Besides, many of the people i've played with and talked to online think that this would be an excellent addition.

I'll post my original layout for this idea once I find it. Plus, i drew up some pikchors. Posting them soon as well :D

Rbstr

2004-09-22, 09:22 PM

Yeah, Greyflcn. That would be very nice to have (truncated kills spam).

@Gohan: griffin flight plan? :)

in World of Warcraft the Gryphon masters have "!" over there head if you can open you the flight plan wtich allows you to return there on a gryphon next time

Hayoo

2004-09-22, 09:32 PM

in World of Warcraft the Gryphon masters have "!" over there head if you can open you the flight plan wtich allows you to return there on a gryphon next time

Oh yes, I remember now. But that also extends to anyone who has a quest for you, correct?

Hayoo

2004-09-22, 09:36 PM

Hey, Hayoo :D

out of curiosity, has any buzz been created about the temporary and semi-mobile (needs to be moved by vehicle) Artillery/Machinegun/Anti-air installations/nests/outposts ???

Actually, my last question to T-Ray at Mobilzation Alpha was if these were technically possible and he said Yes. :)

As for any buzz, my versions gave a stir a while back but I think people have forgotten about them now that I posted the outfit images from Idealab forums. :p But I'm sure if we post our ideas again, they will generate interest once more.

oddfish

2004-09-22, 09:36 PM

Actually, my last question to T-Ray at Mobilzation Alpha was if these were technically possible and he said Yes. :)

As for any buzz, my versions gave a stir a while back but I think people have forgotten about them now that I posted the outfit images from Idealab forums. :p But I'm sure if we post our ideas again, they will generate interest once more.

i'm on it, homie :D

CassH

2004-09-22, 09:51 PM

Bring it up again and then again if they forget again. your outfit panels are Awsome and they would help Everyone alot.

And my Idea witch i ahve wanted for a bit now but it hink would help ALOT now with the BFRs up and comeing is Key maping favorites.

oddfish

2004-09-23, 12:49 AM

i need to get cracking on the diagrams for the outposts..

oddfish

2004-09-23, 03:23 AM

Okay. Here we go.

Towable Artillery/Anti-Aircraft guns:
The concept behind this is very simple.
When a given PlanetSide player who has certification in Ground Transport goes to choose his vehicle from any standard vehicle terminal (that's all of 'em) he will now have two new options: Deliverer w/ Attached Artillery or Deliverer w/ Attached AA Gun.

The vehicle will materialize on the pad, as is customary, only with the packed and hitched towable gun attached to it via some kind of trailer hitch. Kinda like how the military moves field artillery in RL. Now, the Deliverer will tow the gun to the position desired by the driver and then he or an ally will have to get out and unhook the gun. I'm trying to determine whether it would be more efficient to make the piece moveable via ground troop when it is still packed (i.e. he can kind of push it around a bit) or if perhaps it should be immobile once it is unhooked from the Deliverer. In either case the gun must then be unpacked, which will take a few moments, and then supplied with ammo that should be stored in the trunk of the Deliverer or in the inventory of the soldiers who are arming the Gun. The gun itself has no ammo pre-loaded. This is the job of the infantry. If ammo is stored in a vehicle trunk, then players must take the ammo from the trunk and load it into the gun. The gun will then autoload the shells that are put in the gun's ammo hold.

This goes for both the Anti-aircraft gun and the Artillery piece. I figure, why make it much more complicated than that?

Now, as far as the types of Artillery are concerned, I've been toying with the notion of either Empire specific artillery or just different types of ammo for the same Common Pool artillery piece. Almost like making a giant Thumper out of the Arty gun.

I'll explain:

Common Pool:

Under this system, the artillery piece will be the same for each empire, but it will have several options of ammo availible for use. This would be cool and would have many advantages, but also may pose problems.

High Explosive Ammo: You're basic artillery ammo that explodes real big and does essentially what the Flail does, only it's a shell, not energy stuff. Some may ask "Then why not just park four flails far from a base and make THAT an outpost. Here's why: Because you can't just leave the flail there afterwards and go get another vehicle or some such. After a while it'll deconstruct or it will be deconstructed by the user. You can't deconstruct the AA and AT pieces. Moving on.

High Explosive: Kaboom. Good all around ammo. Does lots of damage.
Cluster Ammo: Much like the cluster ammo the Liberators drop, only in artillery shell form
Jammer/EMP Ammo: Massive EMP shell that does what a jammer 'nade does, only bigger, and blows up mines like whaoh.
Plasma Ammo: Same thing as Plasma 'nade, only bigger
Shock Ammo: Loud ammo that deafens infantry and saps their stamina, also does a degree of damage in the immediate blast area. Only a loud ringing will be heard, and infantry will have to walk everywhere until their stamina comes back.
Mine Ammo: Lays about five-ten mines in a myriad pattern. Mine fields?

Frequent comment:

"Why not just blow the crap out of everything with High Explosive ammo? Why use the other stuff?"
-The versatility offered with the other ammo allows for many different options. Perhaps you don't want to attract too much attention to your operation by blowing the hell out of the target with the extremely loud HE shells. Plus, HE shells don't have a huge blast radius and can't guarantee that you're going to kill a heavy vehicle in one shot anyways nor a large group of infantry. HE ammo is just for blowing stuff up as much as it can. Jammer shells can disable enemy vehicle weapons in one shot for a period of time and give assaulting troops a better shot at taking the base. Shock ammo is an experimental concept I came up with because I figured it'd be cool to have a kind of ammunition that allows allied troops to run in and decimate enemy infantry with ease. Fun shit. Plasma shells are good because, if aimed at an entrance or doorway or something of that nature it can clear it quickly and spread plasma every where. Also fun. Cluster ammo is just good for hammering tons of infantry at once. Mine ammo, well, think about it. Mine fields in a jiffy. Of course, mine ammo would take up a lot of space in the cannon's ammo store so that it couldn't cover the whole map with mines. Okay, that's the different ammo types.

Here's what I thought about for empire specific artillery:

Terran Republic
The TR would get an artillery piece that could fire either cluster or HE ammo, but it would have much higher ammo capacity in comparison to the NC or VS arty piece and it would also fire in much more rapid succession. The shells wouldn't be the most powerful availible, but the guns would sure toss a lot of lead into the air and wreak chaos on enemy troops and vehicles.

New Conglomerate
The NC would get rocket artillery. It would have greater range and power than the TR gun, but be much slower and have much lower capacity. The two forms of ammo would be HE and Jammer. The rockets, which would be pretty damn huge, would be tube launched and take a bit longer to load than the TR version. The balance being in the longer range and firepower but less capacity and speed.

Vanu Sovereignty
The VS would get an artillery piece that actually would be used to bounce a beam off of an orbiting satalite. Now, many of you are going to say: "zuh?" Here's the deal. Let's say, for argument's sake, that there's tons of VS satalites circling the planet. The artillery pieces CHARGE UP a kind of Lancer like laser shot, but instead of firing straight on, they fire up at a satalite which then bounces the beam back much like an OS only smaller. It would have devastating affect to anything caught in the blast, but the blast wouldn't be so big. Now, the longer the recharge, the longer you have to wait for the gun to cool down enough to fire again. Short recharge = rapid fire. It can actually fire faster than the TR gun, but the shots won't be nearly as effective. Most powerful of the three? Yes, if charged fully. Longest range? No, actually. Because the intensity of the beam can't reach satalites that are too far away. (B.S. explanation, but it's the best i can come up with)

Now, these guns are cool and all, but they may be difficult to implement, and there could be a lot of bitching about balance issues and what not. Bitching is bad. So Common Pool may be the answer.

Anti-Aircraft Artillery [Triple A]:
The towable AA guns will simply be deployable quad guns that fire the same shells that the Skyguard's flak cannon fires. Simple. Common Pool. Cool beans.

The Machine Gun Nest:
Deployable by any troop on the battlefield. This gun would provide excellent anti-zerging capability and also moderate defense against vehicles. More accurate since it's on a tripod, not just hand held, it would be better for hosing down units. Though, the balance is that it is immobile and that makes it Sniper food. The idea is to set 'em up and mow down as many guys as you can before you start taking too much fire. The shield in the front should protect the gunner from pretty much all fire that comes directly from the narrow forwardmost arc, but the sides and back of the gun are completely unprotected. Grenades, rockets, and sniper rifles will be the order of the day, kids. Or perhaps a well coordinated flanking mission. At any rate, the gun would be a great way to hold off zergs, and it would offer new obstacles to assaulting players. Also, the nests would offer another way to defend the Artillery/AA outposts. Spitfires will still be useful because we can't be everywhere all the time. But, the MG Nests will be good when we are there, and we CAN defend. These guns can be deployed anywhere on the map except inside base SOI's and insed Towers. Otherwise, put 'em wherever you want. They won't auto-deconstruct, but they can be destroyed and they certainly can run out of ammo. Also, they can be unpacked and placed back into a unit's inventory.

Here are thumbnails which should take you to some sketches I just put together. Once I get my art tablet working I'll go ahead and make some nice digital versions of these that will be readable :D (they're thumbnails, click 'em)

http://img63.exs.cx/img63/8659/MobileArty.th.jpg (http://img63.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img63&image=MobileArty.jpg)

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/7733/MobileAA.th.jpg (http://img54.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img54&image=MobileAA.jpg)

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/2503/MGNEst.th.jpg (http://img54.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img54&image=MGNEst.jpg)

oddfish

2004-09-23, 03:23 AM

Now, why do I feel that these concepts would make good additions to PlanetSide? Simple: You see, there's a very large amount of territory that goes unused and unexplored in this game, and that's unfortunate. In real life, the entire world is the battlefield. So, why, in PlanetSide, is battle seemingly restricted to Base Caps and towers? Truthfully, it's not. Battles wage over bridges and around Warp Gates. But, to be honest, it still isn't as spread out and as interesting as it could be. Also, when all there is to do is cap bases and snag towers, it tends to get old after a while. But what if, instead of just base capping and tower hopping all night, you could go on Artillery hunts, or set up a gunnery outpost, or set up an ambush with MG Nests and such. That would open the game up soo much it's indescribable. The possibilities become endless when the location of the enemy can be just about anywhere on the map. And now, you need Mossie and Reaver pilots to do flyovers in certan grids of the map to check for artillery outposts. Now you need scouts to look for outposts and determine troop strength. You can't just Zerg anymore! You have to think and coordinate. You also need scouts to determine if an area is good to set up and outpost. You need guys with GT who can cart the weapons to and fro. This provides for open field combat and a wide range of tactics that have mostly gone unexplored in the game thus far.

All that this idea adds is versatility. It won't take anything FROM the game. Only add. And the additions will only benefit the game. The scope of the game will expand dramatically and the feeling will be much more immersive and exciting. Now, instead of knowing exactly where the enemy is, and exactly what to do: Grab a bunch of tanks, load a few galaxies. Gal drop on the CC and Zerg the Spawn room. Take out the generator.. BLAH BLAH BLAH, we've done it a thousand times over. What if, instead, you could go on a strike mission to take out an artillery position? That'd be a break from the monotony. How about going on a mission to set UP artillery? Yeah. Some outfits may even build themselves around setting up and using artillery. This whole idea just opens up a whole new palette of possibilities.

I explained CR and BR xp acquisition in a previous post.

I look at it this way. You cap the weaponry just like you hack a vehicle or console or whatever and anyone can do it (hackers just do it faster) all except for machine gun nests which don't need hacked to be used. Anyways, hacking Guns gets you CEP if you're the squad/platoon leader because obviously you put together quite an assault to be able to take over an outpost. And you get BEP if you're not in command. Hacking the guns gives you BEP or CEP, depending. And destroying enemy guns gives you BEP. Not a lot, but about the same amount you'd get for single handedly taking down a MAX unit.

Let me explain this a little better. If you or one of your squad/platoon mates destroys an Artillery/AA gun, the whole squad gets BEP and the Commander gets CEP, as per usual, except for the CEP. Also, as far as CEP is concerned, if you cap a gun, the Commander of your platoon/squad gets CEP and the rest of the squad/platoon gets BEP. CEP and BEP won't be too significant. Like I said, like single handedly killing a MAX unit, or perhaps a larger vehicle or some such. Now, how do we prevent players from fighting over who gets to hack the guns? We don't. You'd better hope your squad's faster than the other guy's, that's all. Odds are there won't be much fighting over caps considering the fact that there'll be too much action going on in the first place. But, if there is, so be it. Some people are selfish.. Oh well.

The only other concern is: BFR's. Well, BFR's should fear Arty positions just as much as Arty outposts should fear BFR's. It's equal and balanced.

That's the plan, ladies and gentleman. I hope to have some better diagrams drawn out for you as quickly as possible. Until then, this is what I got. I welcome your input, so give me any advice you see fit. :D

~oddfish

Phaden

2004-09-23, 01:05 PM

Very cool. i like the idea of utilizing more of the open areas in PS. I was thinking about how sad it is about that the other day.

I love the idea of arty and AA setups that are forced not to be in the main SOI. Very cool idea to get people fighting everythwere. I alslo think the arty is really cool. I think it would actually be better if only a dead on hit from the biggest would cause instagib. It should have radius style damage degradation. This would make aiming still key, and bring the guided arty back into play.

Baneblade

2004-09-23, 01:23 PM

Maybe the XP from a base cap shouldn't be related to the squad being in the SOI. Or have a second bigger SOI that is only used the determine XP shares.

Or could enlarge current SOIs to like double their area.

EarlyDawn

2004-09-23, 02:38 PM

That's basically what Hayoo is suggesting. He also wants to be able to tie emplacements into the command and communications system.

Good drawings though.

Hayoo

2004-09-23, 04:22 PM

Nice drawings, oddfish. :) That's essentially what I've been wanting for Planetside as well, along with the ability for troops to 'dig-in' with deployable cover. I'd recommend reposting your sketches and details in a new topic, otherwise I fear my thread will unfairly bury them because I'm posting new stuff all the time. You can also post on idealab's wishlist forum. That should increase your exposure for feedback some.

Incompetent

2004-09-23, 04:33 PM

oddfish

2004-09-23, 08:23 PM

Need anti-tank guns odd, MGs are meat without some way to kill tanks. Also, imho it's stupid to disallow placement of deployables within friendly SOIs. Defenders get shafted as is, if your going to add in defensive deployables you might as well let defenders use them. Defense in depth is it's own reward (in anything but planetside, where pilots are also fucking paratroopers and trying to hold strategic terrain is useless because of them.)

Okay, i'll add a deployable recoiless gun. :D

and, perhaps the MG Nests and Recoiless guns can be deployed inside base SOI's but NOT inside the Base walls. there. simple. I'm making a new post anyways

EDIT: i'm getting drunk with some of my people right now, though, so that'll have to wait 'til tomorrow or saturday or something.. id unno :D :D

thanks for your input, nonetheless :D:D

7ruth

2004-09-23, 09:04 PM

Oh! Sexy!

oddfish

2004-09-24, 11:10 AM

Oh! Sexy!

thanks, you're not so bad yourself ;)

Hayoo

2004-09-25, 02:51 PM

Released WIP topic for Rank Salaries concept. Here's the link, but a copy of topic is below:

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=29

Before you jump to conclusions on what I'm proposing, please give it a read first.

"This thread will discuss ideas for a controversial topic to Planetside, that of money and purchased items. Because game economies are often tied to level, this gives higher levels an unfair advantage which would ruin the carefully guarded level balance of the game.

"I have therefore devised a new system seperate from the weapons and vehicles in the game, that follows the "higher levels just means more versatility not power" and allows for the purchase of essential items in the field when an equipment terminal or AMS is not available. As will soon be seen, this system can tie very closely to the Urban Outposts concept. This system can also serve with current gameplay and even more so if they add outfit features in the future.

What is the Rank Salary system?

Rather than try to simulate an economy where players have to grind to earn more riches, this new system simulates regular Army pay which increases in its amount per cycle as you rise in rank. If needs be, "Pay" can be substitued with "Acquisition" or "Resource" points so as not to turn off RPG-haters.

But won't that give BR20's an unfair advantage over the lower ranks?

BR20's will not be able to accumulate vast sums, because there will be a limit on how much each character can save in their account.

There are limits on how much you can save? How does that work?

A BR1 will earn, say 10 resource points a week, and his account can hold up to 125 resource points at any one time.

A BR10 will earn, say 25 resource points a week, and his account can hold up to 100 resource points at any one time.

A BR20 will earn, say 50 resource points a week, and his account can only hold up to 75 resource points at any one time.

Why are there limits?

This keeps the ranks on par with one another. A lower rank earns less per cycle than a BR20, but can hold more in the longrun and able to acquire more equipment at one time than a BR20. On the other hand, a BR20 will be able to acquire the same expensive equipment or features more often, but only a few each cycle and not have enough left over for spare ammo if say a generator went offline.

How does the game explain these limits?

Like a computer's hard drive, each character's matrix can only hold so much information. Some of this hard drive space is used as memory to hold skills and implant slots. The rest can be set aside for salary. But the higher you rise in rank, the more 'memory' of your matrix is being used to hold all your skills, implant slots, and abilities. There is less room to hold your salary.

For example: At BR1, very little space is being used, a few cert points perhaps. The rest allows room for accumulation of credits/resource points/whatever. At BR10, more of a character's matrix is held by cert points and an implant slot. At BR20, most of his matrix is holding the data for maximum cert points and 3 implant slots.

Ok, so we have a salary. What can I get with this salary?

Because each empire provides troops with most of the weaponry it needs, salaries will only be used to acquire supplimental items, replacement items when an AMS or base is not available, or acquire special features that are only available to outfits.

Are these uber items or features?

No, in keeping with the spirit of Planetside any item or feature I dream up will not have an overpowering role on the battlefield, but merely provide more options or versatility to player roles. If an item is found to have a detrimental or elitist effect on gameplay, it will be removed immediately.

Where can I get these items and features?

In most facilities and urban outposts are Goods Terminals. At these terminals you can acquire standard ammunition, medical supplies, repair equipment, goofy harmless items, avatar customizatoin items, weapon customization items (like a laser light) etc. The ability to purchase these items when they are otherwise unavailable (AMS destroyed, generator down) provides more options, versatility, and fun to a character's roles.

What are the Outfit features we can get with our salary?

An example of a feature you can purchase is an outfit's ability to store vehicles (see Vehicle Storage Concept). A player can drive up to any friendly base or tower's repair silo that is connected to the Supply Line and save their vehicle for acquisition at a friendly vehicle terminal later. The cost of storage is automatically deducted from their account.

Cool, so I can get some of the features that Outfits purchase with outfit points. So how often can I do this if I'm of low rank, and how does that compare to a higher rank?

BR1's would not be able to do this as frequently as a BR20, but then again, if a BR1 has saved up enough in their account, they can purchase storage for a vehicle, acquire more items, customize something, acquire some extra ammo, and maybe get a canister of fireworks or whatever all at once. A BR20, on the other hand could only afford one or two of those more expensive items at once before having to wait for their next cycle to replenish their account.

Can you give me a clearer example with hard numbers?

BR1 has saved up 100 points and buys 24 items and features totalling 90. He is left with 10. On his next cycle he will get 10 points, bringing his account balance to 20. The BR1 will be able to buy a few items for 20 or wait to save up again.

BR20 has saved up 75 points and buys 2 or 3 items and features totalling 75. He is left with 0 and is unable to purchase anything else until his next cycle. On his next cycle he will get 50 points, bringing his account balance to 50. The BR20 will be able to buy a few more big-ticket items again.

Can I transfer salary to another player?

No, as this would cause Muling, players creating multiple characters to build up accounts. You may purchase items for other players, but most items aren't rare or so expensive as unattainable. These items are not treasures or things to be hoarded but rather a key to being more versitle or having more options or a backup plan when things hit the fan.

What is to stop a player from Muling the equipment itself, i.e. buying a bunch of stuff and trading it to their main character?

A system would be in place to detect inactive characters who have very little activity but a lot of purchasing and no kills or deaths; tell-tale signs of twinking/muling. Characters found doing this will be warned or closed.

What happens if I have 100 in my account and I rise in rank that lowers my allowed amount?

You will not lose the amount you already have, but every cycle that you get more salary, it will not raise your account beyond your highest amount allowed. Savings only increase up to the allowed amount and then are lost beyond that, like water spilling out of an overflowing bucket. This is not to be feared, however, as every player will get more free credits on the next cycle.

Hayoo

2004-09-27, 11:52 PM

Finally back from hurricane Jeanne. I have lots to catch up on, but during the storm I managed to whip through a bunch of sketches for deployable emplacements:

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=23

Some Example Designs (click link above for more, 30 sketches I think):

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-mgnest.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-aanest.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-supportstation.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-radar_or_monitor.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-100mm03.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-sam03.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-lookout.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-generic.jpg

oddfish

2004-09-28, 12:00 AM

Hayoo

2004-09-28, 12:19 AM

See, the only thing that bothers me is the little concrete dugout. Perhaps something less hardened so that it would be indivicually deployable via troops and vehicles. *shrug* I dunno. All I have to say is that we need to get the Devs looking at this shit PRONTO. Hayoo, your ideas on this matter are phenominal. I think if we consolidate our ideas they'd be perfect. Two heads are always better than one.

Thanks, oddfish. :p Although the emplacements aren't made of concrete. It's the straight edges that are most likely confusing (I only did that for model polygon issues and to make sketching it easier), but it's really just a dirt and grass berm topped by a row of tech-boxes like sandbags. Some of the emplacements have a sheet-metal type structure built between the berms (like you'd find in a Vietnam'era firebase) and only a few have armored sides. These are only made by the Combat Engineering Vehicle. The details are in the provided link.

I guess deployable is perhaps the wrong word to use, since it conjurs up images of a machine setting itself up or unfolding from a single unit, but none of the words associated with digging a foxhole sounded sexy enough. Maybe the phrase used in the linked thread, Prepared Positions, or Prepared Emplacements, or even Prefab Cover might better suit the concept. I dunno. I'm tired as ****.

oddfish

2004-09-28, 12:24 AM

Thanks, oddfish. :p Although the emplacements aren't made of concrete. It's the straight edges that are most likely confusing (I only did that for model polygon issues and to make sketching it easier), but it's really just a dirt and grass berm topped by a row of tech-boxes like sandbags. Some of the emplacements have a sheet-metal type structure built between the berms (like you'd find in a Vietnam'era firebase) and only a few have armored sides. These are only made by the Combat Engineering Vehicle. The details are in the provided link.

I guess deployable is perhaps the wrong word to use, since it conjurs up images of a machine setting itself up or unfolding from a single unit, but none of the words associated with digging a foxhole sounded sexy enough. Maybe the phrase used in the linked thread, Prepared Positions, Prepared Emplacements, or even Prefab Cover might better suit the concept. I dunno. I'm tired as ****.

hey, sounds good to me. anything to open up the playing field. there's just so much unused real-estate in PlanetSide. :(

well, anyways, i must say that I love this idea. definitly have to keep at it. but, as for right now, I too am tired as fuck. Three Exams in ONE DAY. nap time is imminent.

Once I get the drivers for my Wacom Tablet I'll start drawing up my ideas on the computer. They'll look much better that way. Until then, nice workin' with ya, Hayoo.

Baneblade

2004-09-28, 08:47 PM

Well, for the machine gun nests, make them more like pillboxes to protect from bombers and Reavers. Give em a mesh netting or something.

And the existing bunkers could use stuff like that too.

Hayoo

2004-09-28, 10:41 PM

Well, for the machine gun nests, make them more like pillboxes to protect from bombers and Reavers. Give em a mesh netting or something.

And the existing bunkers could use stuff like that too.

If you clicked on the link you would see pillobox-type and mesh netting emplacements are already part of the concept. As for air protection, indirect or overhead attacks are part of the risk. A CE or FE can also create an AA or SAM nest near an MG nest if they want more anit-air protection.
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-bunker.jpg

http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/de-open_camo_tent.jpg

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=23

DropShipEdward

2004-09-29, 03:26 AM

*wipes away tear

wonderful work!

Baneblade

2004-09-29, 09:55 PM

Well I'll be an Enforcer's uncle...

StrangeFellow

2004-09-29, 10:13 PM

i havent been keeping up with this thread well but from what ive seen it's somthing the devs should read

great work my friend

Hayoo

2004-09-29, 11:32 PM

thanks guys.

Hopefully I'll be able to complete the description thread soon and clean up the sketches.

GreyFlcn

2004-09-30, 04:27 AM

Oh hey Hayoo.

Chat Hud
Make it so that you can toggle through chat modes with a single key.

Default to Squad, which changes to Local when not in a Squad.
(No idea why they don't do this already)

Bug: Everytime you get packetloss, the FPS hud turns itself on.

Inventory item selection screen needs to be thinner to allow for ReXo and MAX armor
HUDs for 800x600
Inventory screen needs to truely overlap all huds, without being shifted by radar etc.
Same for Locker and Vehicle Inventory
Would be the first big step in Game needs to be made much more 800x600 friendly.

-

And already listed this, but they need to stop the FPS and Multi Hud from popping on, and reinitializing every startup.

BackPack and Map should be moved to the Current Radar Toggle / Chat Toggle keys.
Radar and Chat Toggle needs to be moved to Options > Game (Like stats hud) FPS hud too.

Object Ping Range crosshair hud is freaking ugly.
Upside down Pyramid (except on personal waypoint) harms gameplay.

Spitfire, Wall Turrets, and Motion Sensors don't need to have their name listed over them. Just the Armor bar.

Low graphics presets aren't nearly low enough, don't take advantage of all the tweaks.
Need a "set up the video settings before launching the game" program like with FarCry.

Yah, thats about all for now.

Hayoo

2004-09-30, 08:59 AM

Thanks, Greyflcn. I'll put these in the Request Tracker and/or the Wishful Patch Notes when I get the chance.

On that packetloss bug, Fr1day's www.planetside-tracker.com would be the place to go for reporting that one.

Hayoo

2004-10-03, 03:33 PM

Current To-Do List for graphics and diagrams:

Deployable Emplacements (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=23)
Outfit Management Interface (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=83)
Outfit HQ, Camps, and Barracks (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=72)
Player Salaries (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=29)
Capture buffer idea (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=96)
Comtech, Tech, Adv Tech
Squad HUD improvements
Command Squad updates (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=26)
Urban Outposts (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=22)
Empire Tech Levels (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=27)
Sanctuary Capitals (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=28)
Planets and Continents (w/standard, geographical, and tactical maps)
Personal Inventory additions (backpacks, bags, etc)
Current Weapons
Current Vehicles
Current Facilities
Tower cut-aways
Squad compositions
Engineer version of Medic-location feature
Player tracker
Outfit privacy filters
Custom addons for Standard Armor (berets, caps, etc)
Hacking status above terminals (finished)
Damage status above terminals (finished)
Battleplan improvements
MP3 player concept shots (already illustrated by Guirigay)
Empire-specific emoticons for forums
Various Wishful Patch Notes illustrations
Navy concepts (zones, lattice, certs, vehicles, etc)
Space concepts (won't develop until # of players rises)

Hamma

2004-10-03, 04:00 PM

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=83

:thumbsup:

Some really sweet stuff over there, finally now getting a chance to look around the community more that life is calming down hehe

CassH

2004-10-03, 05:09 PM

you have a realy big list for yourself there.

Hayoo

2004-10-03, 09:47 PM

Thx Hamma :)

you have a realy big list for yourself there.

Yeah, I should finish it within a couple years I think. LOL

Hayoo

2004-10-04, 12:53 PM

Deployable Emplacements WIP section has been updated with more descriptions.

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=23&st=1

Medical Tent
Medical Station
Supply Post
Support Station
Command Post
Lookout Post
Bunker
Monitoring Station
Camo Netting Upgrade

Weapons Emplacements will be described soon as well.

http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=23&st=1

Warborn

2004-10-04, 01:18 PM

I take it you're really hoping they get Planetside a new engine sometime soon, Hayoo? Or at least find a way to make the inclusion of so many deployables feasible, performance-wise?

Hayoo

2004-10-04, 01:32 PM

I take it you're really hoping they get Planetside a new engine sometime soon, Hayoo? Or at least find a way to make the inclusion of so many deployables feasible, performance-wise?

You should ask T-Ray. I ventured if this idea were possible and he said yes. So I've continued working on it.

Warborn

2004-10-04, 07:12 PM

You should ask T-Ray. I ventured if this idea were possible and he said yes. So I've continued working on it.

With all due respect, the last time I checked, T-Ray was an artist, not a programmer or otherwise technically oriented individual. He may not be the most qualified individual to say what is within the realm of possibility when the game's continued performance is concerned. After all, flamethrowers are possible, they're just too hard on the framerate for them to add at the moment. Same sort of thing.

I'm not going to press the point, because I obviously can't back it up with much more than my own opinion, but fact is that while what you're proposing with many of your suggestions might be possible, I can't see it working well simply because of the polys involved. With all that you suggest, we're talking about some serious additions to most battlefields. Barriers, bunkers, towable guns, etc etc. They'll all have a negative impact on the game's performance, likely to the extent that this idea would be considered impractical despite whatever gameplay merits it might have.

But, either way, don't let my comments slow you down. Even if I'm correct and at the moment there's a definite technical barrier preventing the majority of your ideas from being feasible, who knows what the future will bring.

Ivan

2004-10-04, 07:15 PM

The way I look at Hayoo's ideas is if PS can't handle them now, the ideas are there for the Devs when they think about a Planetside 2 or what ever it will be if there will be one.

Hayoo

2004-10-05, 01:28 AM

Well the way it seems to me is that Planetside is constantly evolving and changing, finding ways to overcome obstacles, so the things I think up might or might not be in the realm of possibility. I have no way of truly knowing so it's better to be far out there than not far enough when it comes to designs. Just like the In Concept articles, the original idea might not make it in, but bits and pieces could, and that's really exciting. :)

1) Remember they said they couldn't do cont terrain upgrades on the fly, then reversed that when battle islands came out, since they discovered a way to do upgrades in smaller doses.

2) They said they couldn't do a variable hit feature on models, but now we have BFRs that apprently include that (please correct me if I'm wrong). Who knows what else they'll be able to do.

3) Plus we'll have had introduction of poly-heavy models like the lodestar, Core Combat vehicles, the phantasm, and now BFRs, with the promise of more content on the way. One can only assume they're thinking of ways to handle all this in the future, so I anticipate that and design accordingly.

4) The cycle of MMOs tends to includes engine upgrades. We can assume (at our peril of course) that one will come in an expansion or otherwise by at least Christmas 2005 or PS risks being left behind and percieved as shamefully outdated and irresponsibly stagnant.

5) Because SOE doesn't own me, I can let my imagination go wild and pay as little or as much attention to any techincal limitations I come up against. :p But I'm glad you can forgive me on most of my concepts because of this.

6) I actually do try to limit the impact of extra dataloads on the game by duplicating textures and shapes across objects. I also take steps to limit the additions so that types of objects and features would not be massed together where there would be higher traffic and risk of more lag.

It's all a balancing act between my crackpot flights of fancy and wanting to present it with enough realism so that the Devs will consider the idea in part if not in whole.

But finally and most importantly, this is all just entertainment. I'm hoping you guys are enjoying the things I do, because that's reward in itself. :) If the Devs take note and put something in that I've posted, I'll be cheering right along side everyone else.

Warborn

2004-10-05, 01:58 AM

2) They said they couldn't do a variable hit feature on models, but now we have BFRs that apprently include that (please correct me if I'm wrong). Who knows what else they'll be able to do.

I'm fairly sure their reason for not including it was regarding infantry rather than vehicles. I honestly doubt they considered hit boxes for vehicles. For infantry I can understand, as it would create a greater load on the servers for the massive numbers of infantry hits that go on during a mid-sized fight. For vehicles though, as there are far fewer vehicles than infantry, their decision to include hitboxes for BFRs doesn't conflict with the sentiment I echoed just now. So I imagine it was more thinking outside the box than it was overcoming technical obstacles.

3) Plus we'll have had introduction of poly-heavy models like the lodestar, Core Combat vehicles, the phantasm, and now BFRs, with the promise of more content on the way. One can only assume they're thinking of ways to handle all this in the future, so I anticipate that and design accordingly.

High poly vehicles is fine and dandy, because they're piloted by people, and if you've got 300 possible vehicles to be piloted, but only 50 people in a fight, then you can still only have 50 vehicles tops in combat, so the fact that you've got all these new high poly vehicles isn't such a big issue, especially when we're talking about vehicles which you expect there to be few of in each battle.

Conversely, what you're suggesting is deployables independent of the individual. Lot's and lot's of polygonal structures which don't have a hard cap like vehicles do in realistic battlefield situations. Rather than swapping out older vehicles for newly released ones, you'd be stacking the polys on top of the vehicles and infantry already in a fight. With the amount of stuff you'd like in, performance can only decrease, because unlike vehicles, these things aren't piloted by someone, so there's seemingly little to stop many, many bunkers and barriers and towable artillery pieces from being created in the midst of a battle, bogging peoples' systems down in some cases.

4) The cycle of MMOs tends to includes engine upgrades. We can assume (at our peril of course) that one will come in an expansion or otherwise by at least Christmas 2005 or PS risks being left behind and percieved as shamefully outdated and irresponsibly stagnant.

Yes, and I eagerly await such an update, but it's been my experience that upgrades to improve engine performance tend to take the bakseat to upgrades designed to make the game look prettier first and foremost. Samhayne seems a pretty reasonable fellow though, so I hope that, when the next expansion comes around, he opts for something to improve performance, so we can get stuff like flamethrowers and, yes, maybe even stuff along the lines of what you're suggesting. Let's just hope that if it ever comes to that, such ideas aren't laid low by orbital strikes and so on too often for them to really be worth their weight.

But finally and most importantly, this is all just entertainment. I'm hoping you guys are enjoying the things I do, because that's reward in itself. :) If the Devs take note and put something in that I've posted, I'll be cheering right along side everyone else.

Yes, well, your suggestions aren't limited to objects to clutter up the battlefield either, and some of it echoes my own opinion and wishes, so I would certainly enjoy seeing some of your concepts come to life too.

The way I look at Hayoo's ideas is if PS can't handle them now, the ideas are there for the Devs when they think about a Planetside 2 or what ever it will be if there will be one.

I wouldn't count on there being a Planetside 2. Current Planetside isn't afflicted with the mudflation that makes it necessary for MMORPGs to eventually have a sequel (after you get too many levels and too much loot until it's all old hat for the playerbase and too overwhelming for new players). There's really nothing that will cause Planetside to wear itself out over time. Or, more appropriately, nothing that can't be improved and updated and enhanced with patches and expansions.

Hayoo

2004-10-05, 02:33 AM

Maybe it would have been quicker had I directly answered your original questions :p

I take it you're really hoping they get Planetside a new engine

Yes.

Or at least find a way to make the inclusion of so many deployables feasible, performance-wise?

Yes.

heheh. To answer the unspoken questions: Yes, I am already aware of netcode limitations, but No, I do not limit every idea to them because I believe PS or some other game can overcome them eventually. Idealab ideas are based around this assumption. I'm afraid the site would be really boring if it wasn't.

Hayoo

2004-10-06, 09:39 PM

Various additions and tweaks to the following sections on Idealab (some are just updating links or adding forum links):

Empire Tech Levels (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_empire_levels.shtml)
Deployable Emplacements (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_emplacements.shtml)
NTU Changes (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_ntu_changes.shtml)
New Certificiations (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_newcertifications.shtml)
New Vehicles (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_newvehicles.shtml)
New Incentives (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_newincentives.shtml)
Sanctuary Capitals (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_sanccapitals.shtml)
Outfit Barracks (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_outfitbarracks.shtml)

JetRaiden

2004-10-06, 10:03 PM

Hayoo, if you were a woman, I'd make sweet, sweet love to you.

Peacemaker

2004-10-06, 10:16 PM

Hayoo please check out my post... I really think my aircraft fueling idea is quite good. Could use a pro's touch tho!

Hayoo

2004-10-07, 12:45 AM

Hayoo, if you were a woman, I'd make sweet, sweet love to you.

Hell, if I were a woman I'd make sweet, sweet love to me too! :lol:

Hayoo please check out my post... I really think my aircraft fueling idea is quite good. Could use a pro's touch tho!

Nice ideas there, Peacemaker. :) Our ideas actually share some similar characteristics, specifically from my NTU Changes concepts (http://s3.************.com/Planetside_Idealab/index.php?showtopic=24). Namely:

Requiring fuel to operate vehicles
Use of fuel cells stored in vehicles
Fuel cells able to store in personal inventory
Mid-air refueling

One key difference I have (which was inspired by Soydios) is that all vehicles have a built-in capacitor, which is at 50% or so upon acquisition. The capacitor acts as the main fuel guage for the vehicle, with running out having undesirable results. :p The "life" of a vehicle can be extended by placing Powercells in the trunk, which the capacitor feeds off first before depleting itself (this prevents people from transporting a lot of powercells via tanks). Powercells are acquired from an ANT's trunk after it has filled up with NTUs. In my concept, NTUs also have a relationship with the AMS, but that's something else to talk about.

And as EarlyDawn said, the capacitor also powers vehicle implants that I call System Upgrades, which are timer-based modules that boost performance or provide surival features. This is incentive for keeping a vehicle alive rather than just ditching because only an Advanced Technician (http://www.planetside-idealab.com/idea_newcertifications.shtml#advtech) can procure these modules for vehicles.

Graphic of Capacitor bar:
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/aircrafthud03.jpg

A vehicle capacitor can be recharged at one of the following:

Deployed ANT
Base Rearm-repair-recharge Silo or Landing Pad
Tower Rearm-repair-recharge Silo or Landing Pad (so long as it is connected to friendly territory - Urban Outposts concept)
Lodestar
Support Station Emplacement (deployable emplacement concept)
Engineer with Powercells in her inventory
Warpgate

NTU Power and Powercell distribution chart.
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/ntudiagram.gif

Engineer placing powercell in trunk to augment capacitor.
http://www.planetside-idealab.com/images/ntu-vehtrunk.jpg