View Full Version : The best HA equalizer yet.
Bear with me, as this is really odd thinking.
But, I think, that, due to the complete EASE that one can kill another with the triple-shot, on a JH, there needs to be some sort of compensation to the jackhammer-ee.
And that would be instant respawn. Similar to sanc.
Now, all the Pro-JH folks will be crying "OH NOES!" as they read this, but, there is an easy solution to it - Dont use triple shot.
Farm XP all you want, but pissing off others due to a weapon mode thats the ONLY indoor instagib available in ADDITION to a lengthy respawn time, is completely unfair to the defenders.
infinite loop
2004-02-09, 04:53 PM
Huh?
Huh?
Tri-shot = Instant respawn. No timer.
dscytherulez
2004-02-09, 04:56 PM
Umm...What about 3 guys camping the spawns with jackhammers on triple shot? More kills for them...
Umm...What about 3 guys camping the spawns with jackhammers on triple shot? More kills for them...
OH NOES!!!1 5 XP!
:p
Spawncamping produces such negligible XP, it isnt even worth considering.
dscytherulez
2004-02-09, 05:00 PM
What about people who camp spawns for leaderboards? They would be enthralled...
ChemicalHex
2004-02-09, 05:01 PM
And when they're BR20, xp means squat. But for people looking to get on the leaderboard, or to get high up in the dicepoint weekly average, a kills a kill. They should just remove the secondary all together.
Madcow
2004-02-09, 05:01 PM
Umm...What about 3 guys camping the spawns with jackhammers on triple shot? More kills for them...
Anybody pathetic enough to spawn camp in an attempt to artificially inflate their kill totals deserves the self esteem issues they're obviously saddled with in real life.
Occasional spawn camping when the situation dictates it is a necessary evil. Spawn camping for the numbers means you're a pathetic tool.
What about people who camp spawns for leaderboards? They would be enthralled...
Well, those guys are douchebags.
SilverLord
2004-02-09, 05:20 PM
This thread sucks...
We can talk/whine about the JH if it's still instagib after the next patch. kthx
infinite loop
2004-02-09, 05:26 PM
This thread sucks...
We can talk/whine about the JH if it's still instagib after the next patch. kthx
It still will be. In case you missed it:
We found a more subtle way to fix the JH problem.
No more "auto-reload" and we're not nerfing the bullets.
We're simply adding a "firing mode switch delay" of 0.75 seconds. This kicks in when you change from primary to secondary fire modes.
The primary fire mode has a reload time of 0.5 seconds.
The tri-barrel has the increased power of firing three shots all at once.
Now you have to decide whether you want that second primary shot in slightly less time than it takes to switch to secondary, or whether you want to take the delay and switch to tri-barrel instead.
Should work nicely, and doesn't touch the balance of that weapon in a savage fashion at all. It just eliminates the ease of the "four-barrel" attack that occurred previously...which is all we were *trying* to stop.
But, I still have no idea what Spee is proposing here. You saying that using the triple-shot should make the guy who shot it respawn? If so, I say again, "Huh?"
SilverLord
2004-02-09, 05:40 PM
Wait wait wait...they are not making a longer delay between the tri shot?!!?
Happy lil Elf
2004-02-09, 05:50 PM
It still will be. In case you missed it:
You do know that the instagib problem does not come from the tri-shot, right? It comes from being able to do a regular shot immediately followed by a tri-shot. Hence the change and a change which isn't in game yet from what I understand.
I think what Silver was getting at was wait and see if that fixes the problem before continuing the whine.
infinite loop
2004-02-09, 05:50 PM
They went back on the auto-reload after the tri-shot. Reason being, that still wouldn't prevent the quad-shot from firing at the same speed it does now. Instead, they're adding a mode-switch delay. So, there will be a .75 second delay between the first shot and the triple-shot, while performing the quad-shot.
infinite loop
2004-02-09, 05:52 PM
There's really 2 separate instagib methods to the JH. You can do the quad shot, where you fire a primary followed by a secondary shot. Or, if you're close enough, one secondary shot will kill anyone if it hits. I think the instagib will still be around, but the time it takes to pull off will be reduced, thus making the JH user vulnerable to taking more damage.
SilverLord
2004-02-09, 05:56 PM
They are making a mode-switch timer between the single and tri. Good.
Now, are they making a timer for how soon you can fire a tri shot after a tri shot?
Edit: I really see only the tri shot being a problem though. The quad shot is rarely used when I am against a JH.
infinite loop
2004-02-09, 05:57 PM
They are making a mode-switch timer between the single and tri. Good.
Now, are they making a timer for how soon you can fire a tri shot after a tri shot?
There is already a rather lengthy delay after firing a tri shot before you can fire either mode again.
Rbstr
2004-02-09, 06:50 PM
I don't use the JH and it needs a bit of a nerf.
but the spawn timer is essential to the game flow. if we could just instantly respawn there would be almost no consequenses to dieing
infinite loop
2004-02-09, 07:22 PM
Ohhh now I get what the proposal is. Uhhhh, no. Who's to say which weapons kill you cause a spawn delay or not? That's hardly a level of balance that needs to be added to the game. If there really is a balance problem with the JH (which there isn't), then the devs will find a way to take care of it w/o a major game altering event.
Acaila
2004-02-09, 08:02 PM
The JH is not instagib. Instagib is 1 shot 1 kill.
Dont get into semantics. 1 click = 1 shot, unless is a weapon that fires so fast that you cant control it, even then, such a weapon(MCG/Cycler) can still be controlled to an extent.
JH 2ndary mode = 1 click, dead enemy.
Onizuka-GTO
2004-02-09, 08:17 PM
Instagib is 1 shot 1 kill.
...which is what exactly happens when you shoot someone with the secondary mode of a JH at point blank range. :rolleyes:
If the JH have one,
How come MCG don't "Blend & Spray" soldiers at point blank range?
How come Lasher don't "Tear & Fry" a soldier at point blank range?
:huh:
Warborn
2004-02-09, 08:29 PM
I find it unusual that the Jackhammer even has a secondary fire which can in some cases instantly kill even a guy in Reinforced. What, exactly, is the reasoning behind that? What makes the regular Jackhammer shots so much worse than the MCG or Lasher that it requires instant-kill capabilities? I've never understood the logic behind this.
SilverLord
2004-02-09, 08:55 PM
The NC are an instagib empire we could say.
The NC are an instagib empire we could say.
Wait. So. If you are shot with the empire you explode into many meaty giblets? :confused:
SilverLord
2004-02-09, 09:00 PM
Ugh...sorry for the troll post...I just hate the JH...I'm being immature. Sorry for that. No you don't explode but you explode when a JH tri shots you.
Acaila
2004-02-09, 09:31 PM
It may be semantics, but that doesn't make you any less wrong. JH secondary fires 3 individual shots all of which have to be aimed each with their own firing time. It is 1 click 1 kill, but not instagib. A Vanguard shell is instagib, a JH secondary is not. Each shot has its own damage. If all 3 barrels unloaded at the same time it would be instagib, but they don't, they unload in rapid succession. You can hit the first shot and miss the last 2. 1 click 1 kill is not instagib. I can kill someone with 1 click from any weapon, I just have to hold the button down.
SilverLord
2004-02-09, 09:45 PM
I can kill someone with 1 click from any weapon, I just have to hold the button down.
Oh come on man, you know what we mean. Most of the time, a tri-shot is an instagib.
OMG! I just noticed your name Silverlord. Ive been killed by you far too many times :lol:
BadAsh
2004-02-09, 10:36 PM
It may be semantics, but that doesn't make you any less wrong. JH secondary fires 3 individual shots all of which have to be aimed each with their own firing time. It is 1 click 1 kill, but not instagib. A Vanguard shell is instagib, a JH secondary is not. Each shot has its own damage. If all 3 barrels unloaded at the same time it would be instagib, but they don't, they unload in rapid succession. You can hit the first shot and miss the last 2. 1 click 1 kill is not instagib. I can kill someone with 1 click from any weapon, I just have to hold the button down.
Agreed, but more often than not unless lag is involved the target of the tri-shot is dead... they don't fire simultaneously, but thry do fire very quickly....
I've had a few vicious tower battles against NC and just could not kill the NC stair camper with his 3rd person view and audio amp... until I grabbed a jack from my locker... So how does that play out? He kills me 4-7 times in a row... Jack vs. Lasher/MCG... but when I grab a Jack... it's over. Skill or Jack?
It would not be so bad without the tri-shot. There is no need for the built in over kill in that weapon... it can still own the Lasher and MCG in close quarters in normal fire mode. So what is SOE's solution? Reduce the reload time... LOL. He reloads in 3 seconds and you respawn in 45 seconds... how lovely.
My advice... keep a locker of jacks for those tough tower fights.
Usually what happens is the NC gets used to the advantage and gets lazy. He will allow you to fire first knowing his TTK is much faster than yours so he will use that time to take careful aim and make sure he does not blow the easy kill. So if you have a Jack from your locker he won't realize his advantage is gone and its suddeny an even field... ownage is yours.
As to Spee's idea I don't like it... it's a good thought but won't work. People will abuse it. If you think it's bad that the NC get 20% more kills per player than any other empire... just impliment that idea and watch it become 120%.
I didnt expect anyone to like it - Simply an idea nobody has thought of, simply because of the glaring amounts of stupidit inherent to the idea itself :p
BadAsh
2004-02-09, 11:19 PM
I didnt expect anyone to like it - Simply an idea nobody has thought of, simply because of the glaring amounts of stupidit inherent to the idea itself :p
Some people are just too lame for words... I used to play StarCraft. On Battle.net your win/loss record was tracked. So for a good record many players would join games titled "7on1 comp stomp" where 7 players took on 1 computer controlled player for the easy win. Even is a fast "zergling" rush it would take about 5 minutes to build up to this... and I saw a few guys with 5,000+ wins and 0 losses... Bwahahaha... never underestimate human lameness...
Angel_of_Death
2004-02-10, 12:00 AM
I would have been a hardcore SC fan were it not for the ranking / ladder system. Playing with me and my friends was very, very enjoyable. But then there were the ladder-bots, giving you free ladder wins, or the maphacks. And the lamers who did comp-stomps in order to up their record, proving....absolutely nothing.
I like the idea Spee, but someone said it earlier - people would spawn camp, and would rake in the kills, until they were out of ammo, or overwhelmed by an army of suppressors. I avoid spawn-camping in any game if I can help it, but others care more about the kills, showing off their 1337 5k1LlZ!!!111
Onizuka-GTO
2004-02-10, 06:21 AM
I don't understand why you need to spawn camp anymore you get almost no xp from killing freshly spawned baddies, just take out the Spawn tubes is the best idea. The only reason you will have to spawn camp is when you don't have the equipment to take it out, and you are inthe vital minutes of a hack.
Liquidtide
2004-02-10, 08:50 AM
How's this for unbalanced. You can run just as fast and are just as agile weilding a MA rifle (gauss = weight 12-16 pounds?) as a HA (Jackhammer = weight 25+ pounds). I think if HA had some loss of agility in both strafing and running it would let the MA users in Rexo be slightly quicker than the HA users in Rexo as well.
~Tide
Acaila
2004-02-10, 09:09 AM
Oh come on man, you know what we mean. Most of the time, a tri-shot is an instagib.
Yeah, I know what you mean, it kills very fast. I am just a pedantic twitch fps player.
I am all for removing the triple shot and giving the JH the same pellet spread as a Sweeper.
TheRagingGerbil
2004-02-10, 10:01 AM
How's this for unbalanced. You can run just as fast and are just as agile weilding a MA rifle (gauss = weight 12-16 pounds?) as a HA (Jackhammer = weight 25+ pounds). I think if HA had some loss of agility in both strafing and running it would let the MA users in Rexo be slightly quicker than the HA users in Rexo as well.
~Tide
Indeed. I made a post a long time ago regarding the weight of equipment. The weapons and equipment in planetside need to have a weight factor associated with them. The more equipement you are carring, the more weight, so the slower you travel. RPG's call this Encomberance. It makes sense that a guy packing a backpack of Deci's and a HA weapon would move a hell of a lot slower then a similar guy carry nothing but a medium assault rifle and some ammo.
You could still be the agile surge monkey you enjoy so much, you would just be forced to carry only your weapon and two boxes of ammo because anything more would start to slow you down.
Veteran
2004-02-10, 10:05 AM
Backpacks shouldn't be big enough to hold rifles. There, I said it. That's right! I think backpacks stuffed with rifles is cheap and cheesy.
Of course I always have a backpack full of rocket launchers. I'd give it up for a little more realism, though, even if realism isn't the primary function of game-balance.
That would ruin the party for anyone who uses decimators.
TheRagingGerbil
2004-02-10, 10:21 AM
That would ruin the party for anyone who uses decimators.
Get Rexo. :)
BS! ReXo is a cert like any other, it should not be required so that I can use my other 3 point certs, especially not certs that already have a prerequisite.
EDIT: And 1 decimator is never enough, even you rexo wearing hardheads ought to know that by now. What are you gonna do, get rid of your MA so you can carry 2 decimators in your rexo? Use an AMP against infantry? Didn't think so.
Veteran
2004-02-10, 10:37 AM
One infantryman that can kill a MAX with his weapon outload is strong. An infantry that can kill four or five MAXs is just silly.
It really is.
No its not, and they are in the process of uber-sizing all the ammo so that people can *have more fun* instead of pissing around worrying about the arbitrary limitations that make them spend half their time planning where their next ammo fix will come from.
Staying alive through multiple firefights = fun, requires skill, is every soldier's goal
Running back to the equipment terminal after each kill = lame, requires patience, unrealistic
Veteran
2004-02-10, 10:46 AM
Without the need to know your supply lines, support personnel are redundant, easily mocked and ultimately pointless.
Zatrais
2004-02-10, 10:49 AM
Meh, HA will be fine once they remove the forth barrel and get inn the shotgun ammo nerf.
Liquidtide
2004-02-10, 10:51 AM
Gerbil, I'm not so concerned about backpack weight as much as I am "wielding" weight. We all know you run slower when your weapon is drawn, but I just think a minor tweak to slow down HA users a tick more than pistol or MA carriers is needed.
~Tide
Without the need to know your supply lines, support personnel are redundant, easily mocked and ultimately pointless.
Support personnel have nothing to do with ammunition, so in this regard you are absolutely correct-- medics and engineers are ultimately pointless when used as part of a discussion relating to the ammo supply. :lol:
Sometimes I get the feeling that some of you guys won't be happy until everyone is using flintlock muskets with 1 shot, then reload, and it takes 50 bullets to kill someone because you want it to be all about who is skilled enough to land 50 bullets first. Oh yeah, and we should have to melt down the lead from our own bodies to make new bullets because being able to carry more than 50 bullets would turn everyone into super soldiers bent on world domination, and even a n00b could do it.
Veteran
2004-02-10, 11:00 AM
Fl1ntl0ck 4t3hw1n
Onizuka-GTO
2004-02-10, 11:02 AM
Do we get to have bayonets too? :)
SilverLord
2004-02-10, 11:36 AM
Do we get to have bayonets too? :)
Nice.
infinite loop
2004-02-10, 02:02 PM
It would not be so bad without the tri-shot. There is no need for the built in over kill in that weapon... it can still own the Lasher and MCG in close quarters in normal fire mode. So what is SOE's solution? Reduce the reload time... LOL. He reloads in 3 seconds and you respawn in 45 seconds... how lovely.
Actually the reload time isn't being affected, just the delay between switching from primary to secondary mode. So, the JH will be a bit less potent in it's quad-shot ability. Honestly, I think you'll see it used less after this change.
Meh, HA will be fine once they remove the forth barrel and get inn the shotgun ammo nerf.
If you check my post on the first page, you'll see that neither of those things are happening.
SilverLord
2004-02-10, 03:54 PM
OMG! I just noticed your name Silverlord. Ive been killed by you far too many times :lol:
:rofl: How did I kill you all these times??
Veteran
2004-02-10, 04:10 PM
I've got to give credit to someone named SilverLord. That person could so easily have called themself GoldLord, PlatinumLord, UraniumLord or somesuch. It's always nice to see the Table of Elements honored so.
The Advanced Signature helps too.
:rofl: How did I kill you all these times??
Tower + MCG. The only times Ive seen you, the only times youve killed me :p
Its either on one of my many lame NC alts, or, on DoYouKnowTheMuffinMan. Either way, you kill me a lot.
Onizuka-GTO
2004-02-10, 11:40 PM
I've got to give credit to someone named SilverLord. That person could so easily have called themself GoldLord, PlatinumLord, UraniumLord or somesuch. It's always nice to see the Table of Elements honored so.
That sounds almost like an Outfit! I can imagine it now:
"Element Lords" or "The Lords of Elements"
GoldLord
PlatinumLord
UraniumLord
TungstenLord
PlutoniumLord
IronLord
SteelLord
AluminiumLord
CarbonLord
MagnisumLord
MercuryLord
.....
Wow that sounds so nice, I think I will be making a new TR/VS avatar now....
Edit: "Tungstan" oops: and im suppose to be a Major in Mechanical Engineering! :bang:
*hides in embarassment*
Rbstr
2004-02-10, 11:54 PM
tungsten*
and you forgot my fav element:
Einstienium
SilverLord
2004-02-11, 11:00 AM
Finally, I've been honored for my name. Spee, I will see you many times more in the coming years of PS. I've killed the Muffin man or whatever many times, i killed him once and started crackin up and I got tri-shoted. I was pissed at you for making me laugh. Of course that was the first time I killed him.
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